An Interview with Gene Stupnitsky and Lee Eisenberg

Summary

Office Ladies: An Interview with Gene Stupnitsky and Lee Eisenberg
Release Date: May 28, 2025

Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey, beloved co-stars from The Office, delve deep into the creative minds behind some of the show's most memorable episodes. In this engaging episode, they sit down with Gene Stupnitsky and Lee Eisenberg—the dynamic writing duo responsible for iconic episodes like "Dinner Party" and "Secret." This comprehensive summary captures the essence of their conversation, highlighting key discussions, behind-the-scenes insights, and memorable anecdotes.

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1. Introducing Gene Stupnitsky and Lee Eisenberg

[11:34] Jenna Fischer: "Jean and Lee joined The Office in season two and wrote some of the show’s biggest hit episodes."

Gene and Lee recount their journey to The Office, emphasizing their passion for comedy and storytelling. They share how their collaboration began and evolved within the show's vibrant writer’s room.

---

2. Meeting and Becoming Writing Partners

[12:17] Jenna Fischer: "How did you two meet and become writing partners?"

Gene and Lee explain that their partnership started on the set of Harold Ramis’s film Bedazzled, where they worked as a PA and intern, respectively. Their shared ambition to become writers naturally led to a collaborative partnership.

[12:30] Lee Eisenberg: "We met on the set of Bedazzled. I was a PA and Gene was an intern."

Their complementary skills and mutual respect laid a strong foundation for their successful collaboration.

---

3. Joining The Office and Early Experiences

[14:22] Gene Stupnitsky: "We sold a pilot to Fox a few months before we got on The Office. That became our sample that Greg read and hired us based on it."

Choosing to join The Office over more established shows was a pivotal decision. Despite fears of being sidelined, they quickly became integral members of the writing team.

[15:24] Lee Eisenberg: "Greg is very thoughtful. Nothing gets past him."

Their first assignment, "The Fight," was a significant milestone that showcased their ability to blend humor with heartfelt moments.

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4. Crafting Memorable Episodes

4.1 "The Fight"

[21:18] Angela Kinsey: "He taught us about subtext. It felt like grad school for us."

Gene and Lee discuss the challenges of writing their first episode, particularly mastering the balanced subtext that The Office is renowned for.

4.2 "Dinner Party"

[17:34] Lee Eisenberg: "We spent three weeks writing 'Dinner Party' when we should have been working on a movie."

"Dinner Party" stands out as a fan favorite, despite its cringe-worthy moments. The duo shares the intense creative process and the pressure they felt to deliver a standout episode.

[19:35] Gene Stupnitsky: "We were so happy with the script. The table read went so well that there was essentially no rewrite needed."
[22:14] Angela Kinsey: "We have rewatched the whole thing, and I don't think it's the cringiest episode."

Their dedication resulted in an episode that remains a staple of The Office's legacy.

4.3 "The Secret"

[20:28] Gene Stupnitsky: "We fell behind in the writer's room and had to rush to write 'The Secret.'"

Facing tight deadlines, Gene and Lee recount how they incorporated their personal experiences into the episode, enriching its authenticity.

[21:48] John from the show: "... some of the unspoken emotions between Pam and Jim."
[22:06] Angela Kinsey: "The Secret is awesome."

Their ability to infuse real emotions into the script elevated the episode's impact.

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5. Navigating Challenges and Writer's Room Dynamics

[22:28] Lee Eisenberg: "We had to decide between continuing on The Office or pursuing other opportunities like American Dad or Jake in Progress."

Despite initial struggles and fears of not fitting in, their commitment to The Office prevailed, leading to a fruitful tenure that shaped their careers.

[23:14] Lee Eisenberg: "People were initially not nice to us because we were the new kids."
[23:38] Angela Kinsey: "Go make friends. Don't be weird."

Their resilience and determination helped them integrate seamlessly into the established team.

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6. Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes

6.1 Empowered Writers

[23:48] Gene Stupnitsky: "Greg really empowered writers to produce their own episodes and be involved in every aspect of production."

Their active participation in production meetings and edit sessions provided invaluable learning experiences, akin to an intensive film school.

6.2 On-Set Experiences

[25:04] Lee Eisenberg: "Ken Kwapas was so sweet and good at his job."

They share humorous moments from set, including their eagerness to contribute and the occasional missteps that led to memorable interactions.

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7. Favorite and Cringeworthy Episodes

7.1 Favorite Episodes

[40:14] Angela Kinsey: "Pam and Toby stuff was small, but amazing."
[46:48] Gene Stupnitsky: "Dwight has such a rounder character than I imagined."

Their favorite episodes often involve deep character development and unexpected comedic turns, enhancing the show's richness.

7.2 Cringeworthy Episodes

[54:36] Angela Kinsey: "Scott's Tots is cringiest."
[55:04] Angela Kinsey: "Prince Family Paper is the hardest to watch."

They candidly discuss episodes that pushed boundaries, reflecting both personal and creative challenges.

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8. Transition to Directing and New Projects

8.1 Directing The Office

[58:57] Gene Stupnitsky: "Directing was about maintaining the show's established look while adding our creative touch."
[60:13] Lee Eisenberg: "We felt very comfortable directing because we knew the set inside out."

Their venture into directing allowed them to further influence the show's narrative and visual storytelling.

8.2 Creating Jury Duty

[73:07] Gene Stupnitsky: "Season two will not be a jury, but a new format."
[73:16] Jenna Fischer: "It's a documentary-style show with a real person among actors."

Jury Duty showcases their innovative approach to blending reality with scripted storytelling, earning critical acclaim and a Peabody Award.

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9. Entrepreneurship and Beyond

[75:29] Gene Stupnitsky: "Launching our bedding company, Nouve, was a natural progression from solving everyday problems."
[75:52] Angela Kinsey: "Buffy bedding is so soft and easy to use."

Their entrepreneurial spirit led them to create Nouve Bed, addressing common household challenges with innovative solutions, further diversifying their creative portfolio.

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10. Key Takeaways and Reflections

[67:13] Lee Eisenberg: "Working on The Office was like film school. It was formative and honed our skills."
[69:26] Gene Stupnitsky: "Every day felt alive, telling stories and making each other laugh."

Gene and Lee reflect on their time at The Office as a period of immense growth, collaboration, and enduring friendships that continue to influence their careers.

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Conclusion

This episode of Office Ladies provides a treasure trove of insights into the creative processes behind The Office. Gene Stupnitsky and Lee Eisenberg’s reflections offer fans a deeper appreciation of their favorite episodes and the intricate dynamics of the show’s writing team. From overcoming early challenges to celebrating creative triumphs, their journey underscores the collaborative spirit that made The Office a timeless classic.

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Notable Quotes:

• Lee Eisenberg (15:24): "Greg is very thoughtful. Nothing gets past him."
• Gene Stupnitsky (22:14): "We were so happy with the script. The table read went so well that there was essentially no rewrite needed."
• Gene Stupnitsky (16:55): "Writing from theme is like, you want to explore jealousy... It's like writing from an idea versus writing from a character."
• Jenna Fischer (31:09): "Greg called my manager and said I was horrible in the scene... I had to tell Greg I couldn't do it."
• Angela Kinsey (30:02): "Now having been a showrunner, the idea that Greg was trying to make his show worse is just... weird."

These quotes encapsulate the essence of their experiences and the nuances of the show's writing environment.

Transcript

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Jenna Fischer]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the office together, and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate office lovers podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week, we will dive deeper into the world of the Office with exclusive interview interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Lady 6.0.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hi, everybody.

[Angela Kinsey]

Happy Wednesday.

[Jenna Fischer]

Happy Wednesday.

[Angela Kinsey]

How are you today?

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm good.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah?

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm feeling good.

[Angela Kinsey]

Feeling good.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know what I'm gonna do later?

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

I am going to buy cheese at one of my favorite places to get cheese.

[Jenna Fischer]

Of all the things I thought you were gonna say that did not pop in my mind.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love. I love a cheese board.

[Jenna Fischer]

Why are you making a cheese board?

[Angela Kinsey]

Because my sisters are visiting.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, okay. That's lovely. I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I wanna set out a little something they can nibble on after a travel day.

[Jenna Fischer]

My new favorite snack is slices of brie cheese on these, like, six seeded Trader Joe's crackers.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, what's not to love?

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. And then I'll put a few berries on the side. This is my go to snack on the side.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why not put it right on top?

[Jenna Fischer]

A berry?

[Angela Kinsey]

What was this reaction? A berry on top of some Brie. Am I saying something crazy here?

[Jenna Fischer]

An apple slice. Like a green apple slice on top of your Brie on top of your cracker?

[Angela Kinsey]

Sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Butter berry.

[Angela Kinsey]

Give me a raspberry on there.

[Jenna Fischer]

A raspberry?

[Angela Kinsey]

Why not? Maybe a cranberry.

[Jenna Fischer]

A lady.

[Angela Kinsey]

Come on. I eat cranberries and cheese all the time. I brought some. Look right here. Look at that. Cranberries and cheese. Look at that.

[Jenna Fischer]

The sass we have started with this morning from both of us. Let's tell everyone what we're doing today.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we have a really Fun Office Lady 6.0. We have not one, but two really fantastic guests on we do.

[Jenna Fischer]

We got to catch up with the amazing office writing team of Gene Stupnitsky and Lee Eisenberg.

[Angela Kinsey]

But before we get to those interviews, I was curious. What were we doing Jenna in April 2008 on the set of the Office? Because that is around the time when we filmed one of our guests, today's most famous episodes. And since I never delete an email, I can tell you what this all centers around. The week we were doing. Can you guess it? What is one of their most famous episodes?

[Jenna Fischer]

Their most famous episode is probably Dinner Party.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, Dinner Party. First of all, I got an email from joyabc.com she wrote me and said, hey, Angela, we saw some dailies from Dinner Party. That episode is going to be fantastic. I can tell already. I have some questions for you to answer. Let me know if you can. I responded, hey, we're on Location the whole time at this condo. So no computer for me. Can I do this next week? Plus, we get home most nights at 10pm and I go straight to bed. So we were working some late nights that night.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Next up in my digital clutter, I got an email from you. You were planning my baby shower.

[Jenna Fischer]

Mm.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I guess I had to come to set late because I had a doctor's appointment. And you sent me an email titled Tea Party, exclamation point. And when I opened it up, it said, this, lady, you get your wish. Your shower is going to be catered by Paddington's.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh. The best tea house in Los Angeles that has now shut down.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

They had the best chicken salad tea sandwiches on this earth.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was so. It was just a cute little spot too. Mm.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

It was.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then you ended your email with how big is the baby now?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Next email was from Chris Haston, Kate's boyfriend. He was on the set of the Dinner Party taking pictures, and he sent me a really funny photo that he took of me and Rain between scenes in my big pregger's belly. He said, here's one. I've got some more smiley face. And I have the picture.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

And lady, you and I were doing press for the show. We got an email from NBC publicity saying we would like to do a satellite media tour with Jenna and Angela for the return of the show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh. Because it was the return after the big break of the writers strike that year. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And it was going to be for Dinner Party.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, boy.

[Angela Kinsey]

You and I were going to start at 7am and go till 10am Talking about the show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

Next email was from me to you. I guess your mom had sent me these fuzzy flip flops, so I sent you a picture and I said, please pass this pic on to your mom. A thank you card is on the way. I love my flips.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was very pregnant in the picture. Finally, Greg sent out an email to the cast and crew. He said he would like to do a farewell for Kent Sbornak. Greg had gotten him a Rolex and had engraved on the back, kent, good times. Love the Office.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, that's so lovely.

[Angela Kinsey]

There's a little picture into our lives the week we filmed Dinner Party.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we talked to Jean and Lee a lot about Dinner Party.

[Angela Kinsey]

We did.

[Jenna Fischer]

And it's a good convo.

[Angela Kinsey]

They are so interesting to talk to their point of views about all of it. Oh, my gosh, I loved it. So you guys, Jean and Lee joined the Office in season two and they wrote the biggest hit episodes of the show.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. They wrote the Fight, the Secret, Michael's Birthday, the Convention, Traveling Salesman, the Return.

[Angela Kinsey]

Women's Appreciation and Dinner Party, Job Fair, Weight Loss, the Surplus, New Boss, the Lover, Scott's Todds, and the COVID Up.

[Jenna Fischer]

They also directed Michael Scott Paper Company and the Lover. And they made cameos as Gino and Leo from Vance Refrigeration. And, you know, in addition to their work on the Office, they also co, created, wrote, and executive produced HBO's hello Ladies with Stephen Merchant. It's great.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And they worked on other series like Trophy Wife. They worked on Bad Teacher, both the movie and the television show, and Smilf.

[Angela Kinsey]

And look, they've gone on both to be showrunners and written on several TV shows and movies separately. But they reunited in 2023 to co create Jury Duty.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, it's so good.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so good. It's a critically acclaimed miniseries. It won a Peabody Award for its innovative blend of comedy and reality storytel.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, listen, we just love this interview. We kind of just went through their episodes and we also got some new insights into how the writing process worked on the show.

[Angela Kinsey]

So let's take a quick break and when we come back, it's Jean and Lee. This show is sponsored by Better Help Lady.

[Jenna Fischer]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Hi. Jean and Lee.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Hey, guys. Hello.

[Angela Kinsey]

Welcome to the office, ladies. We're so thrilled to have you here today.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is so fun. Jean, I haven't seen you in forever. Lee, the last time I saw you, we ran into each other at the same dinner spot. That is right years ago.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Lovely, lovely meetup.

[Angela Kinsey]

I haven't seen you guys in so long. I mean, Lee, I do have a Nouve bed cover on my bed. We'll get to that.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I'm very excited to discuss that.

[Angela Kinsey]

You sent me and Jean, I said this before we got on the mic. You look exactly the same to me, so I don't know what kind of magic potion. Bless your heart.

[Lee Eisenberg]

It's called a filter.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's my line. It's called a filter. Jenna, why don't you kick us off with the first question?

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, you know, we normally ask people how they got their job on the Office and that is one of our questions. But we want to back it up and ask how did you two meet and become writing partners?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Jean, you want to take this?

[Lee Eisenberg]

We met on the. Not on the set, but on the office of the film Bedazzled Harold Ramis, who was a director, obviously on the Office as well. And Lee was an office PA and I was an intern. I just moved to la and I think we had just moved to LA a few months before that. And we became friends and we didn't immediately start writing together, but we were friends and both wanted to be writers. I think you were writing drama at the time, right?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I was. I was writing very serious drama.

[Jenna Fischer]

At the time, very serious drama. Please elaborate.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

There's only one kind of drama, and it's very serious.

[Angela Kinsey]

Give us a nugget.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

The first show that I ever got hired on was jag, the military courtroom drama. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty serious drama.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is high stakes.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And then I was fired, I think like, maybe four weeks in, maybe six weeks in.

[Jenna Fischer]

Were you given a reason for your firing?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Were you just, oh, where to begin?

[Jenna Fischer]

Dramatic.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Where to begin? Well, I was so intimidated by. I was like, how do these people write, like, military courtroom stuff? Like, so I basically just like, googled all, like, the acronyms so that, like, my scripts would look like, you know, that I, like, was in the military and had been a lawyer in the military. And then the first note I got was like, they couldn't. They couldn't follow anything because, like, I had all these acronyms that they didn't know existed. It was not a. Respectfully, to anyone who worked on that show, I did not find it. Now, now, with, like, the benefit of hindsight, it was not a particularly well run show. And I don't think. I don't think it really supported her. Lifted up young voices. And also, to be fair to them, I probably was not quite the right fit for it. Based on. Based on where my career went from there. From that moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So you guys started writing together and was the Office your first job as writing partners?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

We sold a pilot to Fox a few months before we got on the Office. And that became our sample that Greg read and Terry Weinberg and all the folks at Reveille had read. And that was basically. We decided to write a show loosely based on us, and we decided to not make it characters named Lee and Jean, who are losers, who live together, who are codependent writers. So we basically took all of that, except change their names to Lonnie and Gordo and made them magicians. But everything else was the same. They were codependent losers who lived together. And that became a sample that got us hired on the Office and maybe.

[Angela Kinsey]

Also became Leo and Gino.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

We don't have a lot of range. It goes from Lee and Gene to Lonnie and Gordo to Leo and Gino.

[Angela Kinsey]

So when you guys came in to meet on the Office, did you meet with Greg? Because a lot of people have shared with us their first meetings with Greg, and I'm so curious if you had one.

[Lee Eisenberg]

We did. We met with Terry first and then we met with Greg and we met him in, like, Westwood, I think.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a Coffee shop in Westwood.

[Lee Eisenberg]

And in my mind, I didn't know what he looked like, but I thought he'd be wearing a cowboy hat. I think because of King of the Hill or something. I don't know why I was like, he doesn't look anything like what I expect him to look like. And our. Our agent told us, you know, it'll probably be a long meeting. He does long meetings. And it was. It was a couple hours, two to three hours.

[Angela Kinsey]

That. That is what we have heard from folks and that the conversation goes kind of all over the place.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, no, he's. I mean, he's very thoughtful. You got a sense of how his brain worked and, you know, nothing gets past him. And he has a lot of questions. And he had a notebook with him. Lee said something about us writing from.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Theme, which wasn't even true.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, it was something we had heard and, like, Lee kind of parroted it. Parroted it. And Greg got really excited and. And pulled. He's like, look, I just wrote that in my notebook.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Right from theme.

[Lee Eisenberg]

I remember that.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

No, no, no. It was actually like his notebook. His notebook was like. It's what I imagine the Unabomber's notebook would have looked like. It was really like, every page was just filled. And Harold Ramis had always talked about writing from theme. Gene and I, I would say, had not up until that point, written from theme. And so he's like, what did you learn from Harold Ramis? I was like, what did we learn from Harold? Like. And I was like, how to smoke weed? Like, I. Like I was so. And I said. I said, harold always writes from theme. And Greg's eyes lit up. And then he flipped to the page in all block letters. On the top it said, theme is important.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Which is a very funny thing to see.

[Angela Kinsey]

Can you share with our listeners what does it mean to write from theme?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Writing from theme is like, you want to explore jealousy. You want to explore a mother daughter dynamic. You know, it's the haves and the have nots. It's kind of like writing from an idea and writing from character. Be like, oh, I think it'd be really funny if there was a character who was the manager of an office. And then he could be funny because of X, Y, and Z. I would say Seinfeld has no theme. Seinfeld is just purely character comedy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. That is so interesting to me. And it made it into Greg's book, his spiral that he carries around. But then you guys actually joined the staff in season two, right?

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, I mean, we Were when we were living together, we would. First we watched a British Office and we were huge fans of that. And then we saw season one and we were huge fans of that. We were really impressed at how, how you guys pulled it off because we did not like everyone else. We did not have high expectations for the American version because we love the British one so much. And I mean, how could it be good? And we saw the pilot actually. Right?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

And not even like the final cut. We had a friend who worked at NBC who showed us the pilot. We couldn't believe it. And then we watched the first season every week and it was like six episodes and it was just fantastic. I mean, we couldn't believe it. Then after we met with Greg, we got a call from our agent and we were offered the Office with no guarantee of that we'd be able to write a script. Just I think it was like eight episodes or something.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

It was six episodes for the Office with like six backup scripts. If you counted the number of writers. It felt like pretty. We were going to be one of the backup scripts.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah. And then. Or a full season on an animated show on Fox.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

One of those animation shows, American dad, which is American Don for 30 years.

[Angela Kinsey]

So you had to pick American dad, which had a long, long shelf life, possibilities. Right. Or kind of take a risk on this show that only had a six episode pick up for the first season.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And there was one. Well, there was one more show in the mix. Do you remember Gene?

[Lee Eisenberg]

So the John Stamos show, Jake in progress. That's right.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

With John Stamos.

[Lee Eisenberg]

That's right. Yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Real sliding doors moment for us.

[Jenna Fischer]

Even though, guys, you had three offers to choose from. I mean, we know how talented you guys are, but that is not usual for writers to have like three different job offers at the beginning of a new television season. Well, that's kind of rad.

[Lee Eisenberg]

This was after five years of abject failure.

[Jenna Fischer]

So, you know, this was your year.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

The year before we got hired on the Office. And Gene, you can correct me on the number, I don't like to talk about money because it's tacky. But Gene declared, I believe, $8,000 in earnings the year before he was hired on the Office.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, I think it was like 7,000.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

But I remember my, my accountant was like, okay, let me get your tax returns from last year. And I was like, taxes? I was like, what do you mean? I was like, never paid taxes. And then so, you know, it was not even a question. Even though it was going to be a guarantee. Guaranteed full season of this other show that had been running for a long time. We didn't even hesitate. We knew we wanted to be on the Office even if it was only gonna be six episodes. It was a no brainer.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then your very first episode was the fight. And you know, I was looking up the best Jim Dwight pranks. And this opener is listed in every list where people love this prank where Jim puts Dwight's desk in the bathroom. But it's so funny, fans love it. Time magazine did a list of all the best gym prank. One makes it on there. What a fun episode to have be your first episode.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

It was, I actually, I actually just, I actually just rewatched it, Gene. It's really, I was really proud of it. It was really, it was very. It was fun. It was so, you know, we wrote that episode the entire first season of the, I would say, like maybe the first season two, season three. I was convinced we were going to get fired. I think, like, probably until maybe, like maybe until dinner party. I thought like every and maybe even past dinner party. I just, I was always waiting to be fired. Gene was too. And so when we wrote the fight, Greg had pneumonia and so everyone kind of got sent off to write their scripts. And we kind of like, we were sent off with like as little information as like one could be sent off with to write an outline. And certainly for your first episode, it had kind of jag vibes to it. And. And so we wrote this outline and we went to Greg's house to get notes, like, because Greg couldn't come into the office.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was that sick.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, pretending to be that sick.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah, exactly. And so we went to Greg's house and I remember Greg teaching us about subtext because we, we were like Jim and Pam. Like, Jim probably said something like, I really like you.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was like, yeah, you might want to dial that back.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

He was like, sometimes, sometimes when someone, you know, has an interest in someone else, they Sometimes without saying it, you get a sense of how they feel. Like, oh, interesting. Okay. That's why we're both single. And so then we were. And so then I was like, you.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Can like someone and not tell them.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And so we ended up doing a rewrite on the outline and ended up writing the first draft. But the entire time I was like, oh, they're setting us up to fail. This is their excuse. We're going to write a terrible draft of the script and then everyone knows that we don't belong on the show and then we'll get fired. And Then it was like, of course that's where things are headed.

[Jenna Fischer]

But that did not happen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Did not happen.

[Jenna Fischer]

The fight is awesome.

[Angela Kinsey]

And you guys wrote so many great episodes before dinner party.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Telling you, I'm letting you into our mind.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

I will say I wasn't as worried that we were going to get fired, but I do remember we wanted to leave the show early on. And we called our agent. We're like, we don't like it here. We want to go. Everyone was mean to us. And he's like, huh? He's like, are you an idiot?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

We had been offered a blind script by Fox. We sold Lottie and Gordo to Fox and they offer us a blind script, which means that, you know, they would basically give us money without knowing what the idea was, but we'd have to come up with a story for them in a script. And it was for a lot less money than working on the Office. But, yes, people were not nice to us initially, and we were intimidated. We did ask if we could leave.

[Jenna Fischer]

Who wasn't nice to you?

[Lee Eisenberg]

Well, so ironic, because the people who weren't nice to me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Name the names or say departments.

[Lee Eisenberg]

I'm going to tell you because there are friends, which is so funny in retrospect.

[Angela Kinsey]

This. BJ and Paul, they're your friends now.

[Lee Eisenberg]

My friends now, BJ and Paul, who I talk to all the time and see all the time. But at the time I was. You know how they are. Like, if you don't know them, you know, it's kind of. We're the new guys, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

And Jen also started when we did, and she's so outgoing and so nice and. And, I mean, she was very nice to us and. But, you know, kind of like the clicks had formed and we were the new kids and we're just like, you know, we don't need this. We can go have a. Have a blind script deal at Fox and. But so, so we. We called and our agent was like, huh? But we're just basically like, you guys are dumb.

[Angela Kinsey]

Go make friends. Stop it.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, go make friends. Don't be weird.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Can you talk about being on set for that first episode when we were shooting the fight? What do you remember?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I have two strong memories. Well, a few things. The first was we had never been on set before, and no one. Greg just really. I mean, he really empowered writers in an amazing way to produce their own episodes, to be in the production meetings, to be in the sound mixes, to be in the edit, all of it. And we learned so much from it. And that, you know, it was like grad school for us the first day. I don't remember what the scene was, but we were shooting and the camera missed something. And Gene and I ran in from the little, you know, Greg's office. We ran into set. I went up to the director and said, hey, you missed the camera. Missed that thing. And he was, yeah, you know, I saw that too. Okay, great. Thanks, guys. And then we went back to the office, to our little, you know, Video Village office. And then the next take, there's something else. We ran back out to set because we were the onset producers. The onset producers. Like, we had to show our value. So we ran back in and we said, like, hey, you know, can you adjust this? Or whatever? He said, oh, yeah, of course. I was planning on doing that too. Ran back to our thing. And then I think after the third time, someone came to see us, it was Ken Sbornack, who was the producer. He was like, hey, guys, you can't commit. On every take, we are seeing what you're seeing. Like when the camera misses the thing. It's not like you guys are eagle eyes. And we didn't see it. So just, you gotta let the director have a little. It was also Ken Kwapas, who had.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Directed the pilot, and he's so sweet and also so good at his job and didn't need us coming in. We just didn't know.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And so we're kind of instructed that, like, give the director. Give the actors. Like, the actors also know that maybe they didn't quite get what they wanted. So, like, let everyone have a little bit of space.

[Angela Kinsey]

Let it breathe a little.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Let it breathe. So that was the first thing. And then the other thing was we were shooting the Cold Open and Dwight's desk is missing. And they start kind of rehearsing it. And maybe it's the first take and Greg happens to come down and he says, why isn't there anything under his desk? There'd be like little, you know, like hole punch. Like little trash, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Rubber bands, things, lint and dust.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And he's like, you guys didn't think of that? And also, like. And I was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God, we're, like, so ill equipped to do this. How could we not have thought that there'd be, like, dirt under someone's desk if the desk was moved? So Greg had set deck, like, ADD stuff. And I was like, what a genius.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is pretty genius. He thinks of everything.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

In fact, I remember the last time I did see the episode. I remember thinking, oh, look, there's crap underneath his desk. That's good. I didn't remember that story, but I was like, oh, is that us? That's so funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

One of my favorite details from that episode is the 10 Rules of Karate that hangs on the wall in the dojo, which I. You guys wrote that list. And, Lee, you have that poster.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I think it's in my garage. That poster was in our office for a long time. That was a real delight to write. So I did karate growing up, and I was in the Junior Olympics. No big deal.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hey, hey, you were in the Junior Olympics for karate?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I was, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I got my ass kicked by an oklahoman, as I recall. But anyway, so, like, kind of like being in a dojo was a lot of my childhood. And so, like, when Greg said, like, hey, there's a list of rules, Gina and I had a lot of fun with that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Do you guys have any other things that you took as keepsakes from your time on the Office?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Oh, wait, hold on one second.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Oh, I wonder what he's going to bring.

[Angela Kinsey]

Lee is going to grab something now.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I said that, and now I don't know if I could find it. I have.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Oh, I know what you're going to. I know what it is.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I have the mallard.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, you have the mallard. Wait, I like, literally who Dwight used to spy with.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Where is it? Oh, that's so weird. It must have gotten moved.

[Angela Kinsey]

You have to promise me you'll find it and take a picture of it, please.

[Jenna Fischer]

With the mallard, Please.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's amazing. What about you, Jean? Did you take anything?

[Lee Eisenberg]

No, I have nothing. I wish I had stolen a bunch of. That would be worth so much. Now I have. I have nothing. I have. No. I just have my memories, and those are fading quickly. So soon I'll have nothing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I think NBC is still selling stuff off, so you could probably get something. Greg shared with us that he bought Pam's front reception desk from the NBC auction.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Oh, my God, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

And it's in his production office.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's in his production office.

[Lee Eisenberg]

No.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

That's hilarious.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, I want to go see it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do, too. You have to go see it. Oh, that'll be wild, Jenna, if you do. So your second episode was the Secret, and it had that famous cold Open the up, dog. It's so funny. I just watched it this morning, and when Michael can't deliver, when he goes around trying to do the updog to everybody, and then finally, Dwight takes the bait, and he can't remember how to finish it. His performance is so great. But Jenna and I were. We found out that that's sort of based on something that happened to you guys.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Oh. So the year that I made $7,000, I made the money I made, it was from being a nanny and, like, going on vacation, you know, with this family that. That I knew.

[Angela Kinsey]

And you traveled with them to watch the kids on their vacation.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Exactly, exactly. I think I'd been fired. I was always getting fired as an assistant. I'd been fired, and I went with them somewhere, and one of the kids did it to me, and I was like, oh. And actually, that would happen a lot, you know, like one of the other kids, you know, like, I was complaining about something, and they're like, oh, why don't you go call the wambulance? And I would just. Any of those little things would, you know, all the times end up in the show. So up dog. They did to me. And I was like, oh, okay. Stored that away. And that's what it was.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Just to continue on the theme of me being convinced that we were going to get fired. So the secret, for whatever reason, we fell behind in the writer's room, and we got, like, we had to break the secret in, like. I remember it was like me and Gene and Mike. Mike Scher. And we broke it, like, in a. Like a day or something. And it was a pretty big episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And Gene and I went off to write it. I think we wrote it in, like, three or four days, which was way shorter than. But, like, we needed a draft because there was a table read and, you know, whatever.

[Lee Eisenberg]

The thing was, we always thought we were being set up to fail.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Oh, of course.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like, the great writers room conspiracy.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I also, like, now having, like, now having been a showrunner, the idea that, like, all that Greg was thinking about was, like, how to. With, like, these staff writers and make his show worse.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

What a weird decision. No, but so anyways, we got such a short amount of time to write it that we were like, oh, we're screwed. And I remember calling my. To say, can we do, like, on the board of the. The writers room, they're all the kind of the index cards with all the different storylines or potential storylines, and spring cleaning was one of them. And it was going to be like a big, you know, could have potentially been its own episode. And I was like, can we take spring cleaning for the secret? We're desperate. And he was like, okay, you can do It. And we're like, oh, my God. And so we put spring cleaning into the secret last minute because we just, like, needed something. We needed a B story.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, a lot more of it's in the Superfan episode. It starts with, like, Dwight. He comes in with all of these different sized trash bins, and he's just unloading all these trash bins, and he's whistling the song Tequila. But when he gets to Tequila, he goes, spring cleaning. So it definitely has a bigger presence in that version.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

That's really funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have a tangential story about Greg Daniels thinking that I was purposely tanking an episode of the Office.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Oh.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I don't know. Now when I'm hearing this, I'm like, is this a writer thing where there's some neurosis in writers that makes them think that people are conspiring to make their work bad?

[Lee Eisenberg]

I don't know.

[Jenna Fischer]

So it was that episode, the delivery, and there was this scene where Pam was supposed to be singing to baby Cece, who wouldn't nurse. And I was supposed to be saying things like, in that way where you're talking to a baby, but you're saying, like, you stupid little baby, I can't stand you, and why won't you just nurse with your stupid little mouth and you're dumb crying. It was like something like that where he's supposed to be, like, kind of insulting the baby as, like, a coping mechanism for the fact that I was so tired and I couldn't nurse. And you guys, I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. Like, I just did not have it in me to say mean things to this little newborn baby that they handed me on the set. And I tried and tried and tried, and it was the only time that Greg ever called my manager. My manager, agents, they all called me on the phone and they were like, we just received a phone call from Greg Daniels, and he's very upset.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

He said that you purposely did a bad job today because you didn't like the scene where Pam is singing to the baby. And I was like, what? I didn't. And basically it was just Greg calling to say that I was horrible. Basically. Oh, my God, you were horrible in this scene. You were, like, so bad that the only thing I can come up with is that you are trying to sabotage this out of the episode. Yes, sabotage. So I had to go to Greg and be like, Greg, I honestly. It's just that this is beyond my range as an actor. Like, I don't have It. I don't have it in me. And we set it up and he made me reshoot it. And he came to set and was like, trying to get me to do it. And then after that, he's like, okay, Jenna, I see you're really trying. We'll just change it. You can't do it. You can't do it. I said, greg, I can't do it.

[Lee Eisenberg]

I have to say, it's kind of a compliment to your acting that he thought you could do it and chose not to.

[Jenna Fischer]

I guess I'll take it as a compliment, but it's.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

That's wild.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so nuts that, like. Yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Can I say, I remember this so well. So in the Secret, there's a scene with you and John in the kitchen, and he says, I told Michael that I had a crush on you, but I don't anymore. And you say, so you're gonna be weird around me now. And you did this thing with your eyebrows. It's like a micro act. It is like. And I remember it like when we. I remember when we shot it, when we were now. Now safely in our video village when we didn't correct everything that was happening. And I was like, that's the best acting I'd ever seen. Like, literally, it was incredible. Like, it was so small. It's so subtle, and it. Like, I felt so much from it. It was just like, again, at that point, I guess we had learned a little bit of subtext and just the scene of how much was unspoken between the two of you and what I was feeling from what you're emoting just with your eyes, it was like. It took my breath away. It was the first time. It was the first time I worked on the show because it was also. It wasn't a comedic scene, and it was just being comfortable in a scene that was just about Jim and Pam and was a proper romantic scene and the will they, won't they of it. And I was blown away by your acting. I didn't call your manager at the time and say that you did a great job, but I think I maybe told you at the time. I hope I did well.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[Lee Eisenberg]

I remember you sobbing. Video village.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I had pulled a clip of my favorite scene from the Secret. It's in the break room. And it's when Michael has just found out that he's the only person who knows that Jim has secret feelings for Pam, and he's trying to talk to Jim about it, even though Jim doesn't want to talk about it. And then Stanley walks in. Can we listen to it? This is my favorite scene.

[E]

Hey, what you getting going with Grape? Ah, good stuff. Good stuff. See the game last night?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Which game?

[E]

Any of them. The. So what's 41 1? Any updates on the. The P situation? I don't know any Pam Pa.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Okay.

[Lee Eisenberg]

No, it's okay.

[E]

We're talking code.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

What is.

[E]

Listen, Stan, you know, how long does it take for you to pick out a soda?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I'm gonna take off, actually.

[E]

All right, well, cool. Psil peach ice tea. You're gonna hate it.

[Jenna Fischer]

There's so many things in that. And then Michael, for the rest of the episode, like, puts his hair down. Like, Jim drinks grape soda.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wonderful.

[Lee Eisenberg]

I think that was a Steve improv peach. I see. You're gonna hate it.

[Angela Kinsey]

He seems so angry.

[Lee Eisenberg]

It's so funny. Just him trying to be cool. Anytime he tries to be cool with Jim or with Ryan, it just. It makes me laugh.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's just very like, dude, bro, like, love.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I wanted to ask you guys about Michael's birthday because we hardly ever went on location, you know, and then you have, like, this dojo in the fight. And then Michael's birthday, We go to this ice rink. And I remember it was sort of a big deal. There was a stunt guy that did all these pirouettes, and then it would cut to Oscar as if it was Oscar doing all of them. And I remember he came up to me and he wanted to teach me a trick.

[Lee Eisenberg]

This is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Whatever. This is a random thing that never made it in the episode. But Matt captured all this content of me skating with this guy that's supposed to look like Oscar, who kind of tossed me and, like, held me in the air up high. It lives somewhere. I don't know where. But that was such a fun episode. And of course, you know, Steve's wife, Nancy is in that one.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

What memories do you have from that episode?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I remember the suit that Michael was wearing, like a birthday suit. It's like, so. It's, like, shiny.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's pinstriped, too.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Striped. Yeah. He's like, so proud of it. And then also he gets lifted up on the chair kind of like horror style. His head goes through the thing. And I remember there was actually, like, Steve was like. I think they went a little too high and, like, dust was coming down and stuff. That it was a little like. It was a quote unquote, a stunt. I remember seeing Steve ice skate for the first time. Like, oh, wow, that's. That's Kind of wild. What a cool thing that Michael Scott's great at something.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

There's this great runner of talking heads in the episode where Michael is describing his worst birthdays.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he's comparing them to this birthday. And there's a third one that made it into the Superfan episode. I asked Sam if he would pull these talking heads of Michael's worst birthdays.

[E]

When I was seven, my mother hired a pony and a cart to come to my house for all the kids. And I got a really bad rash from the pony. And all the kids got to ride the pony. And I had to go inside, and my mother was rubbing cream on me for probably three hours. And I never came outside. And by the time I got out, the pony was already in the truck and around the corner. So that was my worst burst thing. When I was 16, I was supposed to go out on a date with a girl named Julie. But there was another Michael in the class that she apparently thought the date was with. So she went out with him on my birthday and she got him a cake at the restaurant. And it wasn't even his birthday today, but I heard about it the next day in school. So that was the worst birthday I think I ever had. On my 20th birthday, my supposed best friend Sam Ambrose ditched me for his twin sister sweet 16 party. And that was my worst birthday until today.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

You know, it's so funny. Sam Ambrose's accompaniments are our friend Sam Handle and Lauren Ambrose, the actress are married, so he named the character Sam Ambrose. But that's one of those examples where, like, we spent probably, like, hours and hours trying to figure out how to do the talking head for Michael's first birthday. And then Steve Carell improvised. Like, those things were like, hey, Steve, like, just do your worst birthday. And, like, just came up with those things. And, like, those end up in the episode. He's so incredible.

[Lee Eisenberg]

These are the moments, though. Sometimes writers don't like actors, and sometimes writers love actors. And this is one of those moments when it's just like, oh, wow, you made it better than we could. We're still going to get the credit. And you made the episode better, and it's funnier and you solved it the best.

[Angela Kinsey]

Imagine your dream bedding. Something really soft, but also cool and cozy, but gentle. Well, if your dream sounds similar to mine, we'd like to introduce you to Buffy.

[Jenna Fischer]

They have sheets and pillowcases and a duvet, all with, like, special temperature adapting properties.

[Angela Kinsey]

This bedding has been awarded, literally, it's won awards From Good Housekeeping to Architectural Digest to Consumer Reports and beyond, they just want House Beautiful Editor's Choice for luxury sheets.

[Jenna Fischer]

Listen, you had me at cooling. I know, okay? Like, I don't even care what color it is. Although I did get a beautiful rustic colored duvet cover.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Get 20% off your first Buffy order using code officeladies@buffyCO.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's 20% off when you use code.

[Jenna Fischer]

Officeladies@Buffy CO. Buffy Code Office Ladies. Oh, Office ladies listeners, we did a little detective work and do we have the scoop for you. So what is it, you ask? It's that Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide.

[Angela Kinsey]

We put on our sleuthing hats and confirmed. That's a whole lot of places and a whole lot of acceptance. So, yeah, sometimes it pays to be.

[Jenna Fischer]

A detective, but it always pays to Discover. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Angela Kinsey]

Learn more at discover.com credit card I would love to ask you guys, which character in the office that you found was your favorite to write for? I mean, obviously, I know Michael was like, such an amazing character, but were there other characters that you would look forward to writing things for?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

There's definitely some. The Toby Pam stuff was small, but I was just rewatching it and, like, it's so Paul. The way you guys both reported is amazing, but just like a guy who is in love with, like. I love it. Like, it's like the eighth story on the show. But he. But he leaves. He's like, I need to go get a camera. And then I want to get a picture of the two of us. And then she's like, oh, I don't have a camera. And then he's like, does anyone have a camera? And then he, like, runs off. That really made me laugh. I mean, like, the bench of actors was so deep. I don't know. I mean, there's amazing Ed stuff. I can't think of anyone I wasn't excited to write for. I mean, it just really depended, I guess, probably on the story or whatever it was. It was just. It was so fun.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

You don't realize at the time, but, like, you know, you're spoiled. You can. There's so many weapons that you can go to, and that's not normal on a show. So it was endless. It was amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

Was there ever Anything that you pitched that never got to see the light of day, that you were like, oh, I wish we had gotten to write that one story.

[Lee Eisenberg]

We worked really hard. We called it the Premonition. It was with Erin, and she had this premonition that someone from the office on the drive home was going to get in a car accident and die, and she wouldn't let anyone leave. And then we just couldn't break it. We could not figure out, like, well, yeah, it was.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

It was basically that, but that, you know, somebody says that and, like, most people roll their eyes because it's like, okay, this.

[Lee Eisenberg]

You know, you're right. She's been right before the seven before.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And then she's been right before. And so basically the office is split. Like, Jim and Pam. Like, Pam won't leave and Jim wants to leave. And, like, it basically was that, like, half the office believes that Aaron. What if Erin's telling the truth and that. Or not telling the truth, but that if she can foresee the future and then the other half doesn't. But it was just. It kind of became one of those things where it was like, the premise of it was so fun, and we got down the road on it, but we never quite. It wasn't just us like, that. We never quite cracked it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love that. And I do think that Pam would want to stay just based on the fact that Pam believes in ghosts. And, like, Jim's like, why do you believe in ghosts? Who are you?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Gene and I also, we wrote a ton of talking heads. I get some of them maybe got shot, some of them didn't. I think, like, all the writers kind of had, like, different slightly, like, for Michael, it's like Michael was a circle, and people kind of, like, had their own little, like, lanes. It was all kind of still within the character. And I think we wrote kind of, like the saddest, most pathetic version of him often. And so a lot. We had a lot of stuff with, like, Michael's. Like, Michael went to his prom, but he was the limo driver, and he was, like, playing. He was, like, playing cards or, like, dice with the other limo drivers, and they convinced him to go in. And then there's another thing with Todd Pat, there was a lot of, like, just Michael, like, went somewhere and, like, he got beat up, and it was in the papers.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah. We had like, yeah, yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

But it was like, yeah, we shot it. Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

It's true, though. Like, different writers wrote different Michaels. So, like, Mike Scher, his. Michael is almost in some ways the most noble version of Michael, like, when you were just hoping he would, like, pull out a win, he would do the right thing. And then he did, in his own.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Weird way, but he did that.

[Lee Eisenberg]

I feel like Mike wrote the best version of Michael. The best person Mindy wrote Michael is kind of like, he was in love with Ryan and was trying to. I don't know what. But just was, like, very into Ryan or Jim in some ways. But, yeah, everyone kind of had a different Michael.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is.

[Jenna Fischer]

That is fascinating.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, jinx. You know, you guys wrote something for me that was so much fun to play. And I've never really. I don't really think I've ever told you how much fun I had doing it. It's in New Boss with Idris Elba and Angela, and Kelly clearly thinks, like, he's the bee's knees and it's pouring rain, and I go and get that scarf, and we're, like, fighting to, like, give the scarf. And then I have this talking head. I have all this mascara that's, like, streaming down my cheeks. And it was so. I mean, I normally am just sort of the sour gal in the back corner. And to just have that much fun to play in an episode. Anyway, I just loved it. And I don't know if I ever thanked you guys for that great scene.

[Lee Eisenberg]

It's really fun when a character is kind of. You think you know who someone is, and then you find a new color on that character. It's always the most fun.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I think, like, when we first got to the show, I was so blown away by the way that the room was approaching Dwight, because I think Dwight, on the surface, you think he's like, oh, he's this guy. And he's like. He's robotic and he's anal, and he's like, all he wants to do is please Michael. And then it's like, oh, no, Dwight. The ladies love Dwight. A certain type of lady loves Dwight. You know what I mean? And he loves the music. He loves. I don't know. He was so much rounder as a character in such a great way than I imagined. As a fan of the first season.

[Jenna Fischer]

You guys wrote two of the cringiest episodes of the Office. One that people love to watch more than any episode and one that sometimes people avoid when they rewatch.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yes.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Angela Kinsey]

We've gotten a lot of mail. There's one. People are like, I have to skip it. I have to skip it.

[Jenna Fischer]

So, of course, the first one is dinner party. My God. You guys, you wrote Dinner Party.

[Angela Kinsey]

People know every line. People know that episode. It is so wild.

[Lee Eisenberg]

That's an example of finding another color to our character. So the scene where Jim tries to leave Pam at the dinner party, that's like a. You know, because Jim was always noble and, you know. You know, just Jim and Pam, they love each other, but we all know in life, in reality, that things don't always go that way. And sometimes you have to be a little bit selfish.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Mike sure never would have let Jim leave Pam, but Lee and Gene were like, all right, we're out of here.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm bouncing.

[Lee Eisenberg]

This is the arc of our not understanding subtext to overusing subtext, where it's like, there won't be another party.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Or whatever.

[Lee Eisenberg]

So we went the other way with it. But, yeah, that's an example of showing another side of a character.

[Jenna Fischer]

Have you seen the peacock superfan of Dinner Party?

[Lee Eisenberg]

I have not.

[Jenna Fischer]

All of the scenes are just a little bit more.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so fantastic. I mean, you know, I obviously like some of the episodes as they aired originally. That's how I wanna remember them. But I think because we love Dinner Party so much, we went and watched the Superfan one, and it is. It's delicious.

[Lee Eisenberg]

I remember the most painful moment, maybe, of my creative life was trying so hard to show the extended version. Cause remember, they were doing those.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like, super Size.

[Jenna Fischer]

Super Size.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Super Size.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah. And I know, like, it was just. The timing wasn't right. But I always thought the best version of Dinner Party was the one that.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Was slightly, like 27 minutes. Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly, 27 minutes. And that killed me that we had to cut stuff out.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you should go watch the Superfan just, like, you know, just for fun. Because I think a lot of those moments that you loved and wanted in are back in.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Can I tell a Dinner Party anecdote?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

So the secret we wrote in three days or four days, and Dinner Party was the opposite.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Gene.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I were staying in New York together, obviously, and it was kind of like a break. So we had, I think, like, a month off from the show between seasons, and everyone was assigned a script, and the room was competitive, and, like, you know, you wanted to kind of have, like, you know, you wanted to have the best episodes. So we worked really, really hard. We had some feature work we were supposed to be doing, and we spent, I think, three weeks writing Dinner Party. And we handed the script in. We were really happy with it.

[Lee Eisenberg]

We spent three weeks writing Dinner Party when we should have been working on a movie. Script that people were paying us to write that we didn't.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Correct?

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yes, absolutely.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

So you basically, you're sitting in the writer's room, and the other writers are reading your script in front of you. And if you like a joke, you check it, and if you don't, you kind of, like, mark an X and you hear people laugh or not laugh. And so you're just kind of like, you're sitting in the room as all of these people that you really like and respect at this point, they're our friends, not our enemies. And we're sitting there, and you hear someone go, huh? And you're like, what page you on? What's that laugh? And you're just, like, desperate to hear, like, you know what. What people are responding to.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wait, I have to stop you, because I never heard this before. Wait, so you sit around a conference table and you just, like, read it to yourself, though not out loud. Everyone's just, like, reading your script in the same room. That would give me heart palpitations.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Oh, it's the worst. And so some people go to their office. Some people would, like, sit on the couch.

[Angela Kinsey]

But, you know, it's all happening at the same time. They've all been off the top.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Cause we have to, like, hey, everyone, read Dinner Party. And then, you know, in 45 minutes, let's sit around the table and, like, let's start talking about how we're going to rewrite it or whatever.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, go on, Go on.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so stressful.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

We're getting. We're getting some laughs, but it's like. It's pretty tense. And then we also had sent it into the network, and we get on a call, so the writers room. I was like, people seem to like it. But I was kind of disappointed by the reaction because, like, I thought we had done a nice job. So then we get on the phone with the network. So it's me, Greg and Gene are in Greg's office, and I can't remember who was on from the network. And they say, hey, so we got a chance to read Dinner Party. Like, what a fun script it was.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Terry.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Terry. What a fun script. And Greg says, oh, thank you. And she goes, it's pretty dark. And Greg goes, yeah, and doesn't say anything else. And then she goes, you know, it's pretty dark. And Greg goes, yeah. And then she goes, it's pretty dark. And Greg goes, yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And then he goes, okay, do you have anything else? And then she was so flustered and she goes, no. He goes, okay, thanks, and hung up. And Greg just didn't want. Like, that was the first indication that Greg really liked the script. That, like, he just didn't give them any.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. He didn't take the bait at no conversation.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

He said, oh. Like, he didn't say, like, oh, let us look at it. We're gonna pull back.

[Lee Eisenberg]

This was at a time also, Greg was arguably the most powerful person at NBC. The Office was the biggest show they had. They did not have a lot going on, especially with comedies. Maybe they also had 30 rock, but he also had Parks and Rec that was about to get going, so no one could really tell him no.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Which was great for us.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And then the table read of Dinner party again. We thought, like, the script was pretty good. And it started. And the cold open at dinner party is. There's some good jokes in it, but, like, it's a little bit of a slow burn until you get to the actual dinner, to the condo. And I remember sitting there and I was like, oh, my God. Like, I thought this was a good script. And like, like there weren't any laughs for the first few minutes. And I was like, we're going to get fired. And then the tablery just kept building.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. My memory building.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And it was just like, people can get their lines out. And of course I wasn't able to enjoy it. But, like, I was told afterwards that it went well. Also at the end of it, the table ready gone so well that, like, the rewrite. There was basically no rewrite.

[Lee Eisenberg]

It.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

So, like, our first draft is essentially what was shot. And also because, like, the table read had gone so well, like, we all got to leave early. Like, usually it's like table read goes poorly and then you, like, you're going to be there till midnight. And it was like, we did a good job. And so then, like, everyone got to leave early, which was very. Which was a good feeling.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

The table read was the. I think my. I don't speak for Lee, but for me it was like my high point in entertainment. That was like the best moment I remember. I sweated through my entire shirt. I was soaking. And by the time in the script when the cops come and Dwight. And Dwight says something to them and he goes, you know, not now, Dwight. Like, they already knew him on a first name basis. And the room erupted. I was as happy.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

That's probably the happiest.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Other than, you know, my daughter being born. Probably the happiest I've.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I've ever been.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Oh. And then the nice. I remember Greg said to us, I'll never forget, he goes, how did you do that? And I. Coming from Greg.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Oh, yeah. How did you do that? Was amazing.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, that was the best. We were walking on air, and it was. It was. You know, kind of lived off that compliment for months.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

And then we had to stop, and that was, like, a big bummer. We had to just stop and picket our own set.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

We shot, like, two talking heads and then went on strike.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And picketed our own set.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, you did.

[Jenna Fischer]

I remember.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Insane. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay, so you guys also wrote Scott's Tots. That's the episode people sometimes can't watch again. Can I just say something we must discuss.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Go, Gene.

[Lee Eisenberg]

I just want to shift some of the blame to Paul Lieberstein, who had the idea. Let's just blame him also.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Like, we get a lot of.

[Lee Eisenberg]

A lot of. But, you know, Paul also had something to do with this. And also BJ directed it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Lee Eisenberg]

BJ had something to do with this. So I just want other people to also share the blame with us.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so brilliant. And it has one of my favorite Michael talking heads in it where he says, of all the empty promises I've made in my life, this one is probably the most generous.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's so good. And it is. You know, we've rewatched the whole thing, and I don't think it's the cringiest episode. The one that is hardest for me to watch is Prince Family Paper. When Dwight and Michael destroy that lovely family paper paper.

[Angela Kinsey]

Father and son. Like his granddaughter is the outgoing message. You reach friends. Family paper.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, that one does me in. I just think Scott's Tots is amazing.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Prince Family Paper is based on. That happened to my sister.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah. That's based on a true story. My sister was working for, I think for Walgreens.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Walgreens.

[Lee Eisenberg]

And she was in New Orleans. Like, I think she was, like, scouting for a new Walgreens. I don't remember exactly what. But basically, like, that was her job. Like, figure out, like, you know, where are their opportunities to put Walgreens. And there was this other drugstore, and she's like, oh, God. You know, like, this is a place that if a Walgreens went there, it would totally put them out of business. And then her rental car, they got a flat tire, and they helped her change the tire. The family. Yeah, it's even worse than that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah. And she was so guilty. She still talks about it. And so. Yeah, that was what that episode was about.

[Angela Kinsey]

Wow. Oh, gosh. Okay. I also want to talk about Leo and Gino for a second because so not only did you guys write and direct, but now your actors on the set. And, you know, there's a deleted scene for the Halloween episode in season two, and it's really sort of the first time you see Leo and Gino. It didn't make it into the episode, you guys, but I want to set it up for you, and I want to play the clip. So Michael's getting into the elevator. Leo and Gino are putting a big boxed refrigerator into the elevator. And they see the camera, and they decide they're going to interact with the camera. And I want you to hear it.

[E]

Guys, could you take the freight elevator, please?

[Lee Eisenberg]

Hey, you want to see a really messy show? You know what? That's my foot coming to our office.

[E]

One. Ass.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Guys. Ass. Ass.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Hi, Mom.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Guys.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Ass.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Ass.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Ass.

[E]

Ass.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Ass.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ass.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Ass. Ass.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well done, guys.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

How did that not end up in the show? That's kind of up.

[Angela Kinsey]

You want a real show? Follow us. Ass. Ass.

[Lee Eisenberg]

In our defense, we never asked for that.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

We never wanted it.

[Lee Eisenberg]

This was forced upon us. We were very much against it. We did not want this.

[Angela Kinsey]

But did you have fun? No, no, no.

[Lee Eisenberg]

It's terrifying. Are you kidding? Acting with you guys, that's terrifying.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Also, it was every time. Every time that Leo and Gino came on to set, the looks that we would get from. I feel like just from John. No, from. From a bunch of the actors. I remember John in particular, just being like, I'm in the background of a scene so that Leo can act. Okay, great. Okay, sure. So I always felt. I always felt bad because I wanted to say, like, we didn't do this. The other writers did this. Like, we're not campaigning to get Leo and Geno more screen time.

[Lee Eisenberg]

We did not want to be acting.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

The other thing in that ass, ass, ass scene is I was so terrified. Gene has the line, all I have to say is ass. Cause I was. I would. There's no way I could have remembered anything at that point. And so thank God Gene took the line. And so all I had to say was ask. Cause I could remember that I've since come into my own as an actor. But, like, at the time, that was really. That was tricky for me.

[Jenna Fischer]

You guys also directed two episodes. In season five, you directed Michael Scott Paper Company. And then in season six, you directed the Lover. Can you talk about moving into directing? And particularly with Michael Scott Paper Company, you established Michael Scott Paper company. So what was it like to shoot in that tiny room? And did you get to be a part of designing that room?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Well, you know, with directing, the writers were on set for their episodes, and sometimes you're on set for other people's episodes as a writer as well. So we knew our way around the set. We felt very comfortable. And, you know, the show had a set look. It wasn't like we were reinventing. Occasionally a director would come in and maybe go 10% one way or another. But for the most part, the show had an established look. There wasn't much, you know, probably want to show off a little bit with shots, but there wasn't much of that. But like the.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

The Wayne Gretzky quote, you know, you miss 100 shots. That's jeans.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Oh, sorry. No, it's not mine. That's Justin's pictures.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Oh, yeah. There you go. That's amazing. I have to give him credit. That's an amazing joke. Yeah, but that's a. That's a thing where, you know, as you start set designing, like, because I just watched that episode the other night and like, the number of times that you see that in shots, like, because the first time you see it, I was like, oh, God, why do people talk about that? You can barely see it. You, like, you kind of blink and you miss it. It must have been a screen grab. And then it's like, oh, no, no. That room is so small. You see it a million times. And also, like, the pipes, and you're sitting down by the pipes. It's like that people are, like, in the bathroom upstairs. That room is brutal. And we got to do a new opening title sequence.

[Lee Eisenberg]

That's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's right.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I know you were talking about, like, the fun of Pam and Toby, but my favorite relationship to play, like one of those, like, deep cut relationships, is Pam and Ryan. Oh, my God, there's so many good lines in that. There's so many good lines in that.

[Angela Kinsey]

Is one of my absolute favorite runners in our rewatch just how much they hate each other.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Ryan with the blonde hair.

[Jenna Fischer]

Ryan with the blonde hair. And when he's on the phone and you can just hear all his conversations and he's like, I don't know, in New York she'd be a six, but here maybe she's a seven. And then the other guy is my former boss. Yeah, right here. Clearly about me. And then he also. She doesn't want to, like, watch him upload his photos anymore because of the topless women. She's like, I don't really want to look at your friend's boobs. And he's like, you know what? You could be hot, too, if you just made a little effort. Like, it's just so good.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

So funny. He says that the blonde hair is natural. It's the sun.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. She's like, sure. Yeah, sure. It is the sun. Okay. He also has a great line in that one. And I know. I mean, Justin Spitzer wrote this episode, but there's that great line in there where, you know, they need to get rid of a person because it's just there's not enough room in there. And so Ryan says, why don't we get rid of the person with the least education?

[Angela Kinsey]

He's such a dick. He's such a dick. He's such a dick.

[Jenna Fischer]

And BJ is so funny, But I remember being in that little room, and it was really difficult. I mean, there's a whole scene where we have to talk about the four corners of the room, and you manage to show all the corners. It's very impressive.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

There's also that amazing moment, Jenna, when you go up to see Idris trying to get your job back, and you can't, and then you're like, well, maybe I can come back as a salesperson. I now have experience doing that.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he's like, no, he was so good. Oh, my gosh.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was really fun. Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Really Remember the buzz on the lot when he was coming, when he was there, like, everyone. All the women were so excited. I'd never seen anything like. It really made all the men kind of feel like, hey, what the hell? Like, everyone was. All the women were. I mean, everyone. Every female who worked on that. On that show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because he was such a charmer.

[Angela Kinsey]

He was a charmer as well.

[Jenna Fischer]

He was like. He would give you compliments.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Lee Eisenberg]

No, this was even before he came. This was just his arrival before he got there. The anticipation. Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I also loved, though, that his character Charles, was not, like, won over by Jim. Like, that new dynamic was so fun to watch.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Jim wearing the tuxedo on his first day and trying to explain a prank to a guy who has no sense of humor was so good. And then that's also the gene. That's the rundown episode. Ah. Where he's like. He doesn't know what a rundown is.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah. What is a rundown?

[Jenna Fischer]

That is also the episode where. Isn't that episode where Mindy keeps coming into Charles's office and saying, charles, you wanted me?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And that's also the one where Michael is introducing everyone and gives really personal details. Like, so embarrassing.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

That was also. That's Ellie Kemper's first episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And that has Country Road, where Dwight and Andy are both. Dwight and Andy have now become friends. That dynamic is so funny. But they're both hitting on her in their own ways. And then they start playing Country Road and they're trying to impress her. The end of the scene is the two of them are now just trying to impress each other and so into playing together that they forget that she's there. And she kind of awkwardly, like, has to get out of the break room. They're just playing to each other. Is so funny.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Toby knocks on the glass.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah. Toby knocks on the glass. Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Can I play a clip from the Lover?

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is my favorite scene in the Lover, and it is not when Pam finds out that Michael is dating her mom.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's my favorite scene. Because you're going, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

I loved doing that scene. But my personal favorite scene is when Jim finds out that Michael is dating Pam's mother. Here it is.

[E]

I have recently taken a lover.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Well, that's great. Congratulations. Who's the lucky lady?

[E]

Pam's mom.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

What?

[E]

Pam's mom, Helene. Remember? From your wedding.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

You're messing with me.

[E]

About what?

[Lee Eisenberg]

You did not have sex with Pam's mom.

[E]

Oh, big time.

[Lee Eisenberg]

What kind of car does she drive?

[E]

She drives a green Cam.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Right?

[E]

And the seats go all the way down.

[Lee Eisenberg]

All the way down. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

What?

[Lee Eisenberg]

Okay, never tell Pam.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And then secondly, Good.

[E]

A pact. A pact. Although I may have to break it tonight when Helena and I tell Pam over dinner. You all right?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Oh, my God. Hey, Jim.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Not now, Toby.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

My God.

[E]

Get the hell out of here. Idiot.

[Lee Eisenberg]

What did I do? Okay, as far as dinner tonight, cancel that. And please, for both of our sakes, never, ever, ever see her again.

[E]

I think you're underestimating Pam. I think more than anything, she wants me to be happy.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

No, not more than anything.

[E]

Okay? I have a good thing with the mom.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Don't call her the mom.

[E]

She's right on my way home from work.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Then take a different way home, man.

[E]

All right? I'll take surface streets. The last thing in the world I would want to do is upset Pam.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Okay, so we're good?

[E]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my God, you guys. What's so amazing is that then later, later in season six, in the coverup, which is also your episode that you wrote. It's the last episode you Guys wrote for the show. Michael's upset because he thinks that his new girlfriend might be cheating on him. And he's sitting in the kitchen, and he's eating the mayo and black olives. Then at that point, Pam is listing all of the women he's ever dated, and she says, helene. And Michael goes, helene. And she goes, yes, Michael, Helene, my mother that you dated. He's like, oh, yes, of course, Helene. Yes. Loved her. And kind of rolls his eyes. It's just. It's such an amazing callback that after all that.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

So funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

Has now just forgotten Helene.

[Lee Eisenberg]

It's so funny.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

The lover is. I really. I'm very, very proud of that. And it's like. I mean, the. Also like the. The Aaron stuff with, like, Coco Leche.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

You bring the. What's it called? Is so funny.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

You bring the candies back.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

And she won't put them out until she gets Michael's permission, right?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's some weird turf war at front reception.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Well, you guys. That's. You guys coming back from vacation. That's Blind Guy McSqueezy.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, Blind Guy McSqueezy. Exactly. So amazing. So in wrapping up about your experience on the Office, when you look back at that time on your life, do you have a general takeaway or a most prominent memory or something that you take with you from that time?

[Lee Eisenberg]

I mean, for us, this was like film school, because Greg gave the writers so much freedom that we really learned every aspect of how to make something, from prep to meet with department heads to, like, the sound mix. I mean, I don't know what it's like in other shows, but this was. I didn't realize how rare that was to be able to. To learn all that. And, you know, it's five years. It's longer than college and where we were young, and those are really formative years for us. And I think we became much better writers because of that experience.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I think for me, too, is it just felt alive, like, every day felt. It always felt big. Like we're always, like, a little bit behind. And so you're just like. You're just kind of, like, coming together, and you're just, like, sitting around with, like, the. I mean, you think about that writer's room, it's like it's a murderer's row of the best comedy writers of the last 20 years. And just every day, you're just, like, telling stories and making each other laugh. And then all of a sudden, like, you'd go off and, you know, everyone Go off to their offices and write talking heads or write a scene. And sometimes you'd read them aloud, and you're like, you know, you're praying that your thing is gonna be the thing that gets the biggest laugh. And the show was just kind of at a moment, like, I remember I would take the train from New York to Boston for Thanksgiving, and you just, like, walk. Like, walk back to my seat and. Or on a plane. And it was right when, like, video ipods started. And you just, like, saw everyone was watching the office. Like, you literally do it. And you'd see, like, five people would be watching something that you had written, like, four weeks earlier. And so it was so immediate. And I don't know, it was just. It was fun. I mean, it was really. It was really stressful. I think it was an amazing thing that Greg was able to pull off. Like, I felt, and I know Gene did, and all the writers did. Like, you felt like the show was yours, the show was Greg's, but it felt like it was all of ours. Like, the amount of dedication and passion that we all felt for it and how much we wanted to get it right and do right by you guys and by the fans was huge. Like, it felt like, oh, my God, like, how are we doing the proposal? Like, what? You know, all these things. I mean, particularly with Jim and Pam, there was so much of, like, we were just, like, pouring. Everyone's just pouring so much of themselves into it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I personally think the best seasons of the Office are seasons two through six. They happen to be the seasons that you guys were on the writing staff.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

So do it. Do it that way. You will.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know if you inclusion exactly. Draw the conclusion that you will draw.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

This was so wonderful catching up with you guys. You know, we also want to talk about this show that is phenomenal that you worked on and you created. Jury duty. It's so great. And it won a Peabody Award. And you've got a season two. Can you share? Can you share, like, anything you want to share about it? Because it is so wonderful.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. So I want to say this show is phenomenal. And it's a documentary, but it's a fake documentary. And there's one real person and everybody else is an actor.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

And you are documenting a jury duty, a case there.

[Angela Kinsey]

One person on the jury that isn't in on it. You really follow. And you have. James Marsden is also. You guys. I also. I just got my jury summons, by the way, this week, so.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because the show was Such a huge hit, and so many people loved it. How do you do a season two of it? That's been my question. How do you convince another person that they're part of a documentary on Jury duty?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

The second season will not be. It will not be a jury. Okay, so that's how you do it. No, but I think that, you know, with season one, it was a. There were, I think, 4,000 people answered at Craigslist.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Ad.

[Angela Kinsey]

Craigslist. That you guys put.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

And so it's a really involved process. And Todd Shulman, who's one of the executive producers, and Dave Bernat, who's another ep, They've worked a lot in this space. Todd worked for Sacha Baron Cohen for, like, 15 years. So me, Gene, Dave and Todd were like the ones who kind of. We're the beginning of that show. And those guys really had a sense of how to pull one of these things off. I mean, it's wild. And the thing that Todd always said was the idea that anyone would imagine that all of this is fake and all of it is for them is too much for the human brain to take. And so there's so much careful preparation and rehearsing and casting that goes into it, and so much of it, too. It's like the idea with that show is that you're never punching down the joke is never at the expense of Ronald.

[Angela Kinsey]

Right.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I think that, you know, again, a lot of lessons that were kind of taken from the Office. Like, you root for those characters in Jury Duty. You like that world. You want to see what they're doing week to week. And at the center of it is a really appealing guy who kind of wants to do the right thing, who doesn't want to get, you know, caught up in the gossip and, you know, forms real friendships. And those friendships were real. Like, that's the. That's kind of the special sauce of the show, I think, is that the. The dynamics. People are playing characters, but the friendships between the actors and Ronald, that was authentic. And those friendships have gone on to this day.

[Jenna Fischer]

The actor that you cast as the judge and Baron Holtz's dad.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah, that's like Barinholtz's dad, Alan.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Who.

[Jenna Fischer]

He was a lawyer, so he had, like, courtroom experience. But, like, all of it, everybody is so convincing and real. It was so brilliant that you came up with the idea that, like, okay, we're only gonna be able to pull this off if there's some reason we have to sequester everyone, which is so Great. Because then we got not just courtroom stuff, but we got, like, behind the scenes stuff.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

You guys, it was just a chef's kiss.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we are so thrilled for you guys. We're huge fans.

[Jenna Fischer]

So will you tell people where they can watch it? Because they can stream it.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah, you can stream it on Amazon Prime. Just type in Jury Duty into the search.

[Angela Kinsey]

And when is season two coming out?

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I think much like season one, it will just kind of. It will just appear.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay. Ooh, mystery, intrigue. I like it.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Just check in on Amazon every day.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

That's all.

[Jenna Fischer]

I will.

[Angela Kinsey]

I will.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

We're deep in the edit on it now, and I think it's gonna be great. It's really. It's different from season one, but it's very exciting.

[Angela Kinsey]

That is so great.

[Jenna Fischer]

I cannot wait. And then. Angela, will you share with everyone why you think of Lee every time you go to bed?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you know, I got Lee and your. Your wife. You guys designed this duvet cover, and you, you know, when you have to change a duvet, it's like such a pain in the ass to put the comforter back in it. This is brilliant because you just lay it flat and it all zips in. You just zip in the duvet cover over your comforter. It's so nice. And it's made. It's like, got such nice quality, and it's got. Mine is white with, like, the little blue stitching. I mean, Lee, I'm your. I'm your biggest fan of your.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I love it. I mean, the natural. The natural progression from working on the office, of course, is to start your own bedding company. And so I had an idea to. Putting on a duvet cover was so annoying. And so I came up with what I thought was a good fix. I got a patent. Like, during COVID I. I partnered up with a woman whose family had a manufacturing plant in Pakistan, and we started making samples. And I would, like, go to dinner parties during COVID like, masked up and, like, bring, like, four samples and have people touch fabrics and zippers and all that stuff. And then we launched the company, and it's been around for two and a half years now. And we go to newvayhome.com and we have a. We have a whole thing. Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

So that's why. That's why you don't get invited to dinner parties anymore.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Well, I think it's a very attractive proposition to, you know, to show up at someone's house with bedding. Maybe. Maybe leave it. Maybe it just kind of brings to brings a little, you know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Other people were, like, making bread during the pandemic. You're, like, showing up with, like, a duvet cover.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

I think people thought I, like, lost. I completely lost my mind because I like, they're like, what are you working on? I was like, well, it's interesting you ask, basically. And I would show that I would use my hands to demonstrate, like, how the Nouve works instead of working on my script. So it was like. It was a good procrastination.

[Jenna Fischer]

But, Lee, the thing is, is, like, when you have a vision for solving a problem that has gone unsolved, how do you ignore that? You can't ignore that.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jenna Fischer]

You have to follow that thread.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Well, I legitimately think that it's all storytelling. And so. Yeah, exactly. There was a problem and, like, here's the solve and there's a story around it. My wife came up with the tagline less struggle, more snuggle.

[Angela Kinsey]

Which is great. I love it.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And Gene, have you invented anything, Gene?

[Lee Eisenberg]

Oh, my God.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

What haven't I invented?

[Lee Eisenberg]

Yeah, well, I really feel less than now because I need to come up with some kind of, you know, it doesn't have to be a home, some kind of industrial masking tape. Something that people wouldn't really picture me coming up with.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like, you're gonna come up with, like, the new white out, whatever that is.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Exactly.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Lee Eisenberg]

My God. Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, thank you guys so much for taking the time to talk with us today and for always being so supportive of the podcast. We love your episodes. We love you guys and we're here for you if you ever need to in any way. Thank you.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Yeah, this was a blast.

[Lee Eisenberg]

Thank you guys. This has been great.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you guys.

[Gene Stupnitsky]

Really, like, going down memory lane.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, that was a delight.

[Angela Kinsey]

They are so fun. I loved catching up with them. You know, after we did our interview, they quickly emailed both of us to thank us for having them on the podcast. They're just classy standup fellas.

[Jenna Fischer]

They really are. I just love them so much, and I missed them. Like, I realized when we were talking to them how much I missed. And I have run into Lee Eisenberg several times. We live, I think, kind of close to each other in the same area of Los Angeles, and we hit up some of the same restaurants, but I hadn't seen Jean in so long.

[Angela Kinsey]

Same.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And you guys, we will put swipe ups to all their things, including Lee and his wife's amazing nuve bed cover.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And, yeah, we hope you have a great week.

[Jenna Fischer]

I just got one.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's wonderful.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's wonderful. It is so soft.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. And it's really pretty, and it's easy to use. It's. Well, love this chapter of his life.

[Jenna Fischer]

I do, too. All right, everyone, thanks for listening, and we will talk to you next week.

[Angela Kinsey]

See you then.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins, our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainslie Bebekow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weiss Berman and Leah Reese. Dennis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basel.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.