An Interview with Teri Weinberg

Summary

Office Ladies — “An Interview with Teri Weinberg”

Podcast: Office Ladies
Episode Date: December 10, 2025
Hosts: Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey
Guest: Teri Weinberg
Theme: Behind the Scenes with an Executive Producer — The Untold Stories, Early Struggles, and Women’s Leadership on The Office

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Episode Overview

In this special episode, Jenna and Angela welcome Teri Weinberg, the pioneering executive producer of The Office (US) and later NBC Entertainment EVP, for an honest and uplifting conversation about the show's early struggles, the nature of creative producing, and the realities of being a woman in television. From the pilot’s rocky beginnings to stories of backstage advocacy, Teri shares both untold history and sage advice, with warmth and humor. The trio also tackles listener Q&As and reflects on friendship, resilience, and ongoing personal growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Teri Weinberg and Her Impact

• Teri was the only female, non-writing executive producer on The Office, serving from development to finale.
• Expanded career to projects like Ugly Betty, The Tudors, and is now a keynote speaker and TED Talk presenter (“Aging into Power”) (09:05–10:33).
• She’s also a triathlete and nonprofit advocate.
• Memorable introduction: “She’s basically a force of nature... There’s really nothing she can’t do.” — Jenna (10:12)

2. The Office’s Precarious Beginnings

• The American Office was “originally sold to FX” before moving to NBC thanks to Kevin Reilly, who fought to keep the show alive (14:47–15:07).
• Major executive opposition: “Truth is Jeff Zucker did not like the show.” — Teri (15:58)
• First season was a tiny 6 episodes, and pickups beyond that were always on a “razor’s edge,” often announced at the last minute (16:21–16:53; 34:39–35:04).
• Early episodes’ limited settings (the bullpen) and small budgets were due to strict financial constraints: “We couldn’t afford to leave...[the office].” — Teri (36:03)

3. The Role and Reality of Executive Producing

• Teri’s approach: maximize her value for every project and support showrunners so they could focus on creativity:

  “It’s my job to focus on the business of the business… You want [the showrunner] to focus on the creative.” — Teri (20:01)

• Would handle network battles, casting, even editing and wardrobe if required.
• Famously went to bat to preserve The Office’s unique tone — including during the infamous Super Bowl slot debate:
  • Network wanted “movie stars” in the cold open, threatening the show’s authenticity.
  • Teri and Greg Daniels found a creative workaround: movie stars within an in-universe movie, not as themselves (23:08–24:38).

4. Women's Experiences in TV Production Leadership

• As the sole woman in executive roles, Teri worked “10 times harder to be seen and heard,” often facing outright hostility:

  “You’re so stupid. You have no idea what you’re talking about. You do not belong in that job.” — Teri, on being addressed to her face (27:07)

• No women were profit participants on the show, which means they do not benefit from its lucrative afterlife (28:12–30:27).
• Teri insists on finding positivity:

  “How can I take that and turn it into something that is good for me or how can I capitalize off of that?” — Teri (29:06)

• Notable quote: “You protect your chicks with your life. I mean, I would kill for you guys.” (30:51)

5. The Office’s Unique Casting Process

• The audition process included improvisation and was filmed/produced to show the real style; if it had been a typical execs-in-the-room audition, “they would have said, you people are crazy. We will never make this show.” — Teri (33:58)
• Heartfelt moment: Jenna credited for “flatlining a line” perfectly, a tone crucial to the Pam character (32:10–32:24).

6. Mentoring & Encouraging Women in Entertainment

• Teri’s advice for aspiring creatives: “You better love what you do.”
• Tenacity and discipline are essentials (“My job is to get a yes... I will do whatever I have to do to get that yes.”) — (41:14)
• Maintaining boundaries and caring about the stories you tell are non-negotiable.
• Teri shares her open-door policy for mentoring and her commitment to integrity and lifting other women (46:31–47:12).

7. Personal Growth — TED Talk, Book, and Fears

• Teri discusses her TED Talk, “Aging into Power” — challenging the myth that it’s “too late” to try something new (47:26–49:45).
• Emphasizes that even at 65, she’s “still learning who I am, what my voice is, and what I want to share.”
• Wrote a memoir-style book, but is pulling it back to rewrite, as she’s “grown so much” recently (58:40–60:06).
• Sage advice: “We put limitations on ourselves, and that’s the only reason why we don’t do certain things, because we convince ourselves that we can’t do it. We can do whatever we put our minds to.” — Teri (62:25)

8. Fun and Friendship: BFF Practices and Listener Questions

• Jenna & Angela discuss their own BFF routines (rambling voice memos, video tours, seeing each other weekly) in response to a fan mail question (04:36–07:57).
• The “Office Question of the Week”: Would you rather invest in Jan’s Serenity by Jan or Ryan’s Woof.com?
  • Teri and Angela pick Serenity by Jan; Jenna (always the dollar-and-cents thinker, jokes Angela) goes for Woof.com if forced to pick (65:14–67:54).
  • Banter about pyramid schemes, Goop’s infamous “vagina candle,” and the power of niche products (68:05–69:39).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On The Office’s ‘Impossible’ Origins:

  “That little teeny tiny show that should never have seen the light of day.” — Teri (14:34)

• On battling for the show:

  “If not for you, [Kevin Reilly] we would not be here. Because he fought and fought and fought for this show.” — Teri (16:04)

• On women’s work being overlooked:

  “We do not participate in the profit of that.” — Jenna (28:37)
  “That is true.” — Teri (28:38)

• On being an ‘added value’ as a producer:

  “It’s my job to focus on the business of the business…The only thing I didn’t do...was put pen to paper.” — Teri (20:01–21:02)

• On learning by doing & on-the-job training:

  “I learned by doing it. I would just sit in the corner and watch people and listen and learn and make notes... I just learned on the job.” — Teri (17:43)

• On fighting for the right cold open in the Super Bowl episode:

  “We don’t do movie stars... It was a way to have [the celebrities] in it, but not break the wall we had worked so hard to create.” — Teri (24:14–24:38)

• On mentorship and personal integrity:

  “If we can help each other, why wouldn’t we? There’s room for all of us.” — Teri (46:36)

• On reinvention at any age:

  “I’m going to start something new until I can’t breathe.” — Teri (49:45)

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Highlight | |---------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 09:05 | Introduction of Teri Weinberg and her career impact | | 14:34 | Teri remembers the show’s insecure beginnings and network moves | | 16:01 | Behind-the-scenes struggle: Jeff Zucker didn’t want The Office on NBC | | 17:43 | How Teri became a producer and learned by doing | | 20:01 | Explaining executive producer duties, “added value” philosophy | | 22:21 | Teri’s biggest “battle”: the Super Bowl cold open vs. network’s movie star demands | | 27:03 | Teri’s candid account of sexism in TV leadership | | 28:12 | None of the women are profit participants, despite their labor and commitment | | 33:58 | Filmed and improvised auditions—the key to selling The Office’s unique style | | 36:03 | Early budget constraints explain the show’s “locked in the office” early seasons | | 41:14 | Teri’s advice to aspiring producers: Tenacity, discipline, “love what you do” | | 47:26 | TED Talk: “Aging into Power”; challenging age myths | | 54:18 | Call Sheet Questions: Quickfire, fun Q&A with Teri | | 63:44 | First “Office Question of the Week”: Serenity by Jan or Woof.com? |

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Listener Q&A & Fun Tidbits

• BFF Vibes: Angela and Jenna share their best friend “care rituals” — daily voice memos, video tours of new places, porch chats (05:10–07:57).
• Casting Nicknames: Teri gave Angela the nickname “Button” and Jenna “Snap,” reflecting how tiny and endearing she thought they were during auditions (31:21–31:38).
• Oceanaut Watch Story: Jenna recounts keeping a $100 watch in a safe for years, thinking it was “super expensive” — only to discover it was a freebee handed out by the producers (39:01–40:19).
• Listener's Ethical Investment Dilemma: Would you put your money in Serenity by Jan or Woof.com? Spirited banter, ending with a side trip to the saga of Goop’s “vagina candle” (65:14–69:45).
• Teri’s Weekend: Surfing—learned at 55! (57:12)
• Personal Growth: Teri is writing a new memoir after “outgrowing” her first draft, underlining her commitment to continual self-evolution (59:11–62:12).

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Tone & Style

The episode is warm, candid, and empowering, with plenty of laughter and inside baseball. Teri is articulate, pragmatic, and deeply supportive, matching the hosts’ blend of humor, vulnerability, and BFF chemistry.

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Takeaways

• The Office’s success was never guaranteed; it survived because of courageous, creative people willing to fight for their vision.
• Executive producing, especially for women, means blending business acumen with the humanity of advocacy.
• Keeping your integrity, mentoring others, and being open to new opportunities—at any age—are key themes.
• Audience questions bring out both sincerity and goofiness, balancing heavy realities with signature Office Ladies warmth.
• Teri Weinberg remains a role model for reinvention, leadership, and empowering the next generation.

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For anyone fascinated by the genesis of The Office, women in Hollywood, or creative persistence, this episode is rich with wisdom, wit, and the kind of real talk you only get from people who were there.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[A]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[B]

We were on the office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate office lovers podcast just for you.

[A]

Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive Interviews, behind the scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.

[B]

We're the Office Lady 6.0.

[A]

Hello. Well, hi there, lady.

[B]

You look lovely today.

[A]

Thank you. I got this sweater at Marshall's. I love Marshalls.

[B]

Marshalls is great.

[A]

I know. You know how they'll do, like, sweaters? This is not an ad for Marshalls, just so you guys know. But one of the things I like is how they'll group sweaters and stuff in color palettes. So it's like, oh, I want a turquoise sweater. Marshalls is going to have a little row of them.

[B]

Well, this is also not an ad for quints, but I'm wearing some new quince jeans and I love them.

[A]

Well, they're cute.

[B]

They're wide leg, like super wide leg. And then they puddle at the bottom. I think this is the style. I saw the cool mom at my kid's school wearing jeans like this, and I thought, I need to. I need to take note.

[A]

This is a real thing, you guys. It doesn't matter how old you are. There's always a mom or like a dad or whatever. That's like the cool, hip person, person, co worker, whatever that everyone secretly is.

[C]

Like, clocking their outfits.

[B]

Well, she always looks so good, but like effortlessly.

[A]

I know, I know. I know the type.

[B]

She doesn't look like she's trying hard.

[A]

I know exactly what you're talking about, Veronique.

[B]

I'm talking about you. I'll just say it, Veronique. I eye your style at the pickup and drop off. All right, well, listen, we have a really fun show today, but we're going to kick things off with something a little new. In our last Friday chitchat, we asked you all to send in chit chat topic ideas.

[A]

Yes. We put a folder up on the office lady's website. We went through them. They are so good. And we're going to start sprinkling them into our shows.

[B]

Yes. We picked one for today and we asked Cassie to reach out and see if this person would be willing to send in an audio clip. And they did.

[A]

Let's hear it.

[B]

Hey, Jenna and Angela, this is Anna Claire. I was just wondering how often that y' all get to see each other outside of work. I know that y' all work together, so you see each other then, but how often do y' all get best friend time? My best friend just moved back to Texas. She's about one hour and 45 minutes away, but that's a bunch better than it used to be. She was 14 hours away for a while. I'm loving getting to see her once or twice a month now. But I was just wondering. We. Marco Polo every day, but we can't see each other all the time because we have little kids to plan with too. Thanks so much. Have a great day. Well, thank you, Anna.

[A]

I know. You know what I love when we get to hang out outside of work, it really feeds my soul. And we definitely talk every day because we work together, but we also both make a real effort to. To leave each other, you know? You guys, we love a long, rambly voice memo. We've talked about this. We leave each other a long, rambly voice memo that is just like BFF chat. Yeah. So I know what your day is every day, and I love that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, we see each other once a week when we're working, but I'm not sure, like, an answer to Anna's question. I'm not sure if we see each other more than once or twice a month. BFF only, right?

[A]

And we try. We have active conversations. We're like, okay, let's do a BFF hangout.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Where we don't talk, work. We go for a hike, we go for a walk. One of my favorite things, honestly, is just when we get together and sit on one of our back porches.

[B]

Yes. And I also wanna add something else because I know there's a little bit of distance between you and your best friend Anna, which is whenever Angela and I go places or even from home, we also sometimes send videos. Angela, you started this. I can't remember what job one of us had out of town, and I'd been gone a few days, and you said, will you please send me a video of your room? Send me a video of the outside of your building. Send me a video of the street you're living on. I need a visual when I'm listening to your voice messages. I need to imagine where you are. Show me the chair you sit in. Show me your kitchen.

[A]

I do. I need it. I need to know where you are in the world.

[B]

That's what you say? I need to know where you are in the world. Yeah.

[A]

And it makes. I don't know, I feel more relaxed when I see where you are. This is something I do with our kids, you know, when I travel for work, I give them a video tour of wherever I'm staying. Our little different things from a set I might be filming on. So they know my world, and now my kids do it. And it just brings me such joy, you know? Isabel took a trip with her friend it was like a. I mean, with her friend's family, you know, for a weekend away, and. And she sent me a little video. Mom, this is our cabin. And yeah, so I do love that.

[B]

I do that with my kids, too. But what's funny, Angela, is a lot of times you'll make the video for your kids and you'll be talking to them in the video, and then you just send it to me. You're like, here's where I am. I know.

[A]

I'm like, I've made one video. I've done that a lot, too. I've sent you videos I've made for my mom. So I'm like, mom, look. Yes, this room has this lovely lamp. And I'm like, Jenna, you get the same video.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So, Anna Claire, we got real chatty, as BFFs do, but we're always connected.

[B]

Well, we're going to try to do more of these. So if you want to submit a chit chat idea for Office Ladies, you can find a [e-mail].

[A]

Oh, and we also want to share that one of our goals for the new year, you guys, is to put more stuff on our office ladies YouTube channel.

[B]

I'm very proud of us for even launching this. We talked about that Office Ladies YouTube channel for how many years now? 5 years? Years? 4 years?

[A]

We still haven't done quite a lot with it, but this is our goal.

[B]

We're gonna start with animated clips of.

[A]

The podcast that cartoon and radio made for us years ago.

[B]

Yeah, you might remember they were up on The Comedy Central YouTube For a long time, but now you're gonna be able to find them on The Office Ladies YouTube. They are like 10 mini episodes. They're about 10 minutes long. They animated parts of us doing the podcast. They're really funny. Gonna start to drop every Sunday. The first one's already up, so you can go and watch it. Please subscribe to our YouTube channel. I can't believe we're even saying that.

[C]

I know.

[B]

And next year, we hope to have more fun content on our channel. I'm really excited.

[A]

Me, too. All right, well, let's talk about what we're doing today. We have a very special guest. We are so happy this day is finally here. You have heard us mention the name Terry Weinberg on the podcast. She was the only female non writing executive producer on the Office. She was with us from the very beginning helping the US Version of the Office go from its development stages to casting to finally getting on the air. And then, of course, she was with us all the way till the very end. She later became the NBC Entertainment Executive Vice President and launched her own production company, Yellow Brick Road.

[B]

Yes, Terry went on to serve as Executive producer of the critically acclaimed and award winning television show Ugly Betty as well as the Golden Globe nominated the Tudors. Her producing credits go on and on, but she is also a keynote speaker. She conducts workshops and she's often on panels about her years of experience. She recently had a TED Talk. The title was Aging into Power.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, by the way, she's also a triathlete. She's basically a force of nature. But most of all, Terri is supportive and she is uplifting and we are so excited to finally have her on Office Ladies to share about her time on the office and so much more. There's really nothing she can't do. She also does advocacy work.

[A]

She is a Board of Trustee member for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. Terri has such a heart for people and we can't wait for you to hear this conversation. So why don't we take a break and when we come back, buckle in for some words of wisdom and a truly uplifting conversation about work and life with the amazing Terri Weinberg.

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[B]

View important [e-mail] OfficeLadies.

Hello there. Terri Weinberg.

[C]

Hello you two beautiful people.

[B]

How are you?

[C]

I'm fantastic.

[B]

We're so excited to have you here.

[C]

I'm so excited. Thrilled to be looking at your faces.

[A]

When I rounded the corner and saw you and you hugged me. I think we hugged for five minutes. We had such a hug. And then when I saw you see Jenna, I was just like, wow, I'm so thankful. I'm just sitting in some gratitude to be sitting across the table from two women that I really admire.

[C]

I just got all kinds of little goosebumps. Yeah, it's interesting when you think about. Because I thought a lot about you guys. Well, I think about you all the time. But coming into, you know, the podcast, I just started reminiscing about.

When you guys said, you know, is there anything you want to talk about? And I was really thinking about the very beginning of this whole thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that little teeny tiny show that should have never seen the light of day.

[B]

Why do you say it should never have seen the light of day? Because we were just up against too much.

[C]

You know, there were.

[B]

There were.

[C]

You know, because we were originally sold to fx. We were to Kevin Riley. That was where the office was. And when Kevin Left FX to come to NBC. He brought the Office with him.

[B]

This is already something I didn't know before.

[C]

You guys don't even understand. I have all of the. Give us the. I know where all the bodies are buried.

[B]

Well, this is true because you started from the very beginning, before any of us were cast, before even Greg Daniels was attached. You were trying to get this show off the ground.

[C]

Ben showed me the original that Ricky and Steven had done and said, look at this and tell me what you think. And I said, this is brilliant. We should stay as far away from this as possible so we don't F it up, you know? And I just fell in love with it. And it took us time to get Greg's attention. Greg had it. I'm sure he's talked to you guys about it. But he didn't look at it for about three or four weeks until we finally called Ben, called Ari and said, get Greg to look at this. Cause he's gonna fall in love with it. And then Greg finally watched it and said, please tell me nobody else has said yes to this. I have to do this. And so it was a real process. But beyond that.

Truth is Jeff Zucker did not like the show.

[A]

Yeah. That we all knew. That trickled down, even to us.

[C]

And to this day, I will say to Kevin Reilly, if not for you, we would not be here. Because he fought and fought and fought for this show. And when we did the pilot, we only got picked up for five episodes. If you guys remember that we had a six episode first season.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We aired in March and we were done in middle of April. And then when we got picked up for the second season, we still only got six episodes, but we told the world it was 13. We did, we did. Oh yeah. Because you know, we didn't. We wanted people to stay with us and not think, oh, you know, so here's five more little measly episodes.

[A]

So the official, like sort of press announcement said we were gonna come back.

[C]

For 13, but we were only really given six. Oh, wow.

[B]

And you know what's so funny about that is like nowadays if you announced that you had like a six episode show on streaming, people would be all over it. They didn't. There would be no stigma to only having 6 or only having 12.

[C]

Yeah, this was the business of getting 22 episodes a season, where we ended up doing 2628 hour longs bonus episodes. You know, we really kind of redefined the half hour situational comedy, I think, in so many ways.

[A]

All right, well, I'm already just like, I am so into this conversation. I am so here for it. So we usually ask our guests, how did you get your job on the Office? So can you journey back with us and tell everyone how you came to be part of the project?

[C]

Yes. So I worked for a company called Reveille. It's a production company. Who produced the Office. Ben Silverman, who was my boss, used to run the international television department at William Morris. He started this production company and he was the guy that was bringing in the formats from around the world. Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, Weakest Link, all of those big unscripted shows. And he had the rights to the Office and also to Ugly Betty and to a show called Coupling, which was the first show that we produced. It was multicam comedy. And I'll never forget, because none of us knew how to produce. Ben was an agent, I was an agent, had agency experience, but nobody had ever produced a minute of television. And so I had a masterclass. I mean, I learned by doing it. I would just sit in the corner and watch people and listen and learn and make notes and. And I just learned on the job. And so when we were doing Coupling, then I started to figure it out, and the next thing that we were going to be working on was the Office. At the same time, Ben was building a big international business at the company and Biggest Loser was on the air, and that became a billion dollar juggernaut. And the more I was in rooms with him, the more I said, you don't need to be here. I can build your script to television. And so I kind of pushed him out of the business of scripted TV and just became a part of, you know, Coupling, the Office, Ugly Betty, the Tudors, everything that we produced. And so I started. I ran the scripted division at Reveille. I did the job of 100 people, and it was one.

[B]

Well, Terry, you're the person that I remember being on set all the time. You're the person I remember from my audition. You're the person I remember from the pilot. You're the face. And so that tracks for me. You were always there. Can you describe, like, what is your job? Because executive producer or producer. Like, it's very. It's not the writing part of the show. But what exactly do you do?

[C]

It's. My parents used to ask me that for, you know, nine or 10 years.

[A]

That's such a parent thing to ask, by the way. What do you do? What exactly is your job?

[C]

The job of an executive producer can be as Big or as small as the executive producer makes it. And for me, I always want people to know that I'm an added value to a project. So the experience that I bring is developing scripts, hiring whomever, whenever the writer, the directors, the casting, being a part of that whole development of said project. And for me, it was always really important to create a really open collaborative relationship with the showrunner, because you always want them to know that they're gonna focus on the creative part of the show. And it's my job to focus on the business of the business. And so with the Office, Greg and I were at the hip. You know, he knew that I would go fight any battle for him and love it. I would deal with the network, I would deal with the studio. Cause, you know Greg, he's just one giant piece of love. He doesn't want conflict ever.

[A]

No.

[C]

You know, and so I always said, just bring it so you don't have to think about it. You're doing all these things, and you're wearing a million hats. So every day that you wake up as an ep, it can be a whole different deal than the day before or the day after.

[B]

So, like, if the network read a script and they were iffy on a storyline, but Greg really wanted it, he'd be like, terry, go tell the network for it.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Or if he had an idea for a director, you might call that director's agent or that director directly and really try to massage that and help that happen.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

Stuff like that.

[C]

So you really act as a partner. The only thing I didn't do. And I would be in the writer's room at times, I just didn't put pen to paper. So you can do any and all things that are asked of you. I can edit. You know, I do casting. I do. I work on wardrobe. All the things that you're trying to sort of fill a gap. If it helps your writing staff and especially your showrunner to just focus on creating the work, the creative work.

[A]

Well, I have to ask you then, is there a battle you had to take on that you remember? That's like a vivid battle that Greg was like, go get that. Can you share with us?

[C]

Well, yes, but it'll be an unexpected anecdote.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So as you know, I went to NBC in 2007 and ran primetime there. So I became the executive who was overseeing the office that I was the executive producer of.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

So did you have to fight with yourself? Would you give yourself a note? And Greg would say, go tell yourself no.

[C]

So no. And so, yes, there was, you know, a little schizophrenia. But when we made the decision to have the office come on after the super bowl, so Ben and I said, we want to give the Office this space. And then Jeff Zucker, who was our boss, said, okay, but you have to make it feel.

[A]

Special.

[C]

This and special, because we're gonna have 100 million people watching.

[A]

Yeah. For those of you guys listening, I'm sure you know this because, you know now there's like a whole, like, bingo games about super bowl ads. That's so many people are watching the Super Bowl. So to get that time slot right after is a big, big deal.

[C]

Oh, it's like winning the lottery.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Think about it. How many shows are vying for that position every single year? And so clearly, Ben and I wanted to put the office there because, you know, the baby. And so I had the conversation with Greg and said, we really need to do a big, crazy cold open, because if we only have people for, you know, three minutes, we want them to say, I've never seen this show before. I have to stay and watch it. And so Greg and I love you so much, Greg. If you're listening, he pitched some not great ideas.

[A]

They weren't big enough or flashy enough.

[C]

Right. And Jeff Zucker said, we need movie stars. We have to have movie stars in the first three minutes. And I said, we don't have movie stars on this show. Doesn't work like that. And so I went to Greg and I said, so here's the fight that's happening at the network. Jeff wants movie stars. I said, we don't do movie stars. Put this in your hat. Think about it, and see how we can somehow work them into this cold open. And I don't know if you guys remember it, but it was kind of the movie within the movie. Jessica Alba.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Jack Black people were so. They were bleaching watched on the computer by people in the office. And so it was a way to have them in it, but not break the wall that we had worked so hard to create, to not have celebrities on our show. So that was probably the biggest kind of spirited conversation that I had to have with Greg. And then also on the other side of it. So that was. I was in the middle of two really very difficult, huge money battles.

[B]

Yeah. And two very opinionated people with strikingly different visions for what this episode would be.

[C]

Light years. Valleys worth of opinions.

[A]

My gosh, you must be so good at just navigating tricky situations. Like, I kind of feel like I need to do the Amazing Race with you.

Jenna and I have always said we might be a team, but it might be Terry.

[B]

Listen, you would do better with Terry.

[C]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Also, because there's so many physical challenges on Amazing Race that Terry would crush it.

[A]

I know. Triathlete.

[C]

I mean, surfer.

[B]

Surfer. I know.

[C]

Multiple.

[A]

Multiple.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I think because I came up as a female executive and then also, you know, as a producer back in the 2000s, we had to work 10 times as hard to be seen and heard in a room.

[B]

Yeah, you did.

[C]

It was a really difficult environment to have to be in because I would be the one woman in a room of 50 men, 40 men, 20 men, 30 men who try to make you feel like you don't belong in there. You know? And I think that there was just this thing that switched in my head and said, I have the experience. I have the success. Talk to my hardware on my mantle. Don't tell me I don't belong here. I didn't earn this. And also.

I belong here. So you can treat me any way that you want, but I'm still gonna have my opinions. I'm still gonna have the fierce way in which I do business. And then people start to get that message, and they treat you differently. And it especially happened to me when I was at NBC, because people call you names that you can't even imagine in your wildest dreams.

[B]

Behind your back.

[C]

No. To your face.

[B]

What?

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

To your face.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

You're so stupid. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're up. You do not belong in that job.

[A]

To your face.

[C]

I disagree with you. Oh, of course. Yes, of course. I shall not name names.

[B]

But we have a different podcast. It's called Office Ladies Burn it to the Ground. We're gonna start it in about 10 years. Can we have you back? Because on that podcast, we name all the. Oh, yes. It's when we burn it to the ground, Terry.

[C]

You guys don't even know.

[B]

Oh, I can't wait to have you on that one.

[C]

I don't even know. I have so many closets that are stuffed with people.

[A]

Oh, my God.

Okay, well.

[C]

But seriously, it's. You know. You know, you've been women in an industry, and, you know, that's just kind of where your fierceness comes from, because you get used to having to. The shoulders have to be a little bit taller. You have to walk into the room in a certain way because people feel that presence.

[B]

Well, here's something that I'm thinking about. Right now, as the three of us sit in this room, and I know how hard all of us worked on this show on the Office. I also believe that none of us are profit participants on the show.

[C]

That is true.

[B]

And so there are a lot of men who worked just as hard as we did who are profit participants or.

[C]

Not as hard as we did.

[B]

Also correct. Also very correct. You know what that means is that when all these big sales happen to the streamers and this show that has lived on for years and years and years, we do not participate in the profit of that.

[A]

We don't make money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And neither do you. And because we don't have a percentage of the show.

[C]

Well, I will attest that you are not profit participants, nor am I. And that doesn't mean that you worked any less hard than anybody else who is a participant. And it's just part of the way that the deals are made. Early on, I worked for a company, so the company. The company was the participant. And also it's how people choose to include you in that participation over time. I would rather be giving and share in the participation. Some not so much. But the way I came away with it. Cause I never wanted to be bitter about those experiences. Same, you know, I look at it as, okay, this is something that I experience now. How can I take that and turn that into something that is good for me or how can I capitalize off of that? You're doing this podcast for six years. You're the queens of your queendom, you know, so you're using this opportunity to do a business that you love, to talk about, a show that you love. And also you're businesswomen.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So you're using that to your advantage of what you'll never do again. And we talked about time management and all those things. Live. Live your life the way you've earned it and you're having fun doing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I always try to find that, you guys know, I'm positive. You know, I always want to try to find the good out of the things that can wreck a human.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, but at the end of the day, it's still business. And there's so much more to our lives than that. And we're going to get over. And that's, you know, I can't count the amount of times. But then I've also used those opportunities to enrich myself in other ways.

[B]

Were there any women who are profit participants on the Office? No, I didn't think so.

[C]

Because there aren't A. I mean, if you're talking about, you know, both producerial and then the cast, I was the only female producer, so. No, no. That's a hard no.

[A]

That's a hard no.

[B]

Sorry, I just had to get on my little soapbox there in the hot sack.

[C]

I'm here for it. Yeah, I am here for it. Cause I'm here to protect it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's another thing that a producer does. You protect your chicks with your life. I mean, I would kill for you guys.

[A]

I felt that, too. I really did. I really did.

[B]

I wish you could see the look in Terri's eye when she said that. She means it.

[A]

I really felt that. I felt that from the very beginning. And one of the things we wanted to talk to you about was the audition process, because you were in the room. I remember looking right at you, and you smiled at me, and I was so nervous and so cute. Oh, he's so sweet.

[C]

He's so cute.

[A]

And you said that. I was.

[C]

That's why I named you Button.

[A]

I know. You said I was so tiny. I was just cute as a button and tiny. And then I called you Snap.

[C]

Yes. To this day.

[A]

To this day.

[C]

Why Snap?

[A]

Because I said, she's just. She's not even a button. She's a Snap.

[C]

Just a little snap.

[A]

She's just a little snap.

I love this.

[C]

The audition process was probably one of the most glorious times of my life.

Because we auditioned, I think, like nobody else did, you know, coming in, reading the words, doing the improv.

I mean, I was in pain for 10 hours a day of laughter. You know, it was everyone. We saw everyone, Everyone. From the second I laid eyes on you, you were Pam.

[A]

Aw.

[C]

The second you said, they're there again, that's real. I used to say when we would talk about these different actors, especially for Pam, I said, nobody flatlines a line like Jenna.

I always. I remember that to this second. She's a. You flatline it. That look. That you could just be straight in something that is so hard to do.

[A]

The amount of emotion Jenna can convey in her eyes, especially in the scenes with Pam and Michael. I have loved rewatching. Cause I wasn't in those scenes, so I wasn't watching her in that moment. And it is what you can do with your eyes, lady.

[C]

It's incredible.

[A]

You should win an Emmy.

[B]

Your eyes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, I was behind camera on all of your talking heads, on all of your scenes, on all of your pairings, on all of your. Everything that you guys did for years and years and Years. And it was such a gift for me. There was not a day that went by that I didn't wake up in gratitude and say, what are we doing? This is crazy fun and magic with this group of people who love the work so much and each other, and it will never happen again. That kind of chemistry, that kind of energy will never, ever be replicated. And so seeing you guys during that audition process, it was hard, too, because there weren't any talking heads really yet on television, and the rhythm was so much different, which is why we did, you know, produced auditions where we did screen tests. Because if we would have gone into the network and you guys would have done a scene, they would have said, you people are crazy. We will never make this show. So just the whole rhythms of it.

[A]

The hard pauses, that is something that I think is really amazing and such great, I mean, smart foresight on how to sell the show. But a lot of times, when you audition and you make it to that final stage, where you go in front of a room of 50 network execs, you kind of go into, like, a little theater, like a mini theater, and you do your scene as an actor in front of this room of people, and it's like doing a little mini scene at, like, a play. Like a play in the theater, but for the office. You guys filmed it, produced it, and played it for the network so they could see what the show would look and feel like. And I just think that's so smart.

[B]

I'm curious. After we shot the pilot and we were waiting to hear if we were gonna get picked up, how close did we come to not getting picked up? Because from my perspective, that phone call came, like, 24 hours before you announced it in New York.

[C]

That's exactly right.

[A]

So they were deciding up until the last minute.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And we got the pickup contingent on being able to produce the episodes for under a million dollars.

[B]

And is that hard to do?

[C]

So was not.

[A]

Terry just Terry, just, like.

[C]

I think a knife just came out of my eye.

[A]

Terry did, like, a whiplash look to Jenna, like, ba, ba, ba, ba.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, typically, a sitcom is four million, three and a half, two and a half per October. But to do it on. Yes.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

And I think at that time, we were at a million, five million, four. And we had to take $400,000 off of a budget that was this big. I'm making a teeny, tiny circle. It was a tiny budget, as half hours went.

[B]

Is that why all the episodes in the first season happen in the bullpen and in the office. Like, there's no ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. There's no locations.

[C]

Zip. We couldn't afford to leave.

Everything had to be contained. Because it costs money to go out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Costs money to move cameras, costs money for transportation. It costs money for all those things that, you know, you need to do when you leave the space. And so Ben was gallivanting all over the world with his friend who had just done a big movie with Brad Pitt. He was on a studio private plane. I don't know, Warner Brothers or Sony or something. And I think he was in. He was somewhere where it was in the middle of the night for me, was morning for him.

[A]

On a plane with Brad Pitt on.

[C]

A plane and doing all the premieres around the world.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And here I am in my underwear in the middle of the night, sitting in my bed. I have spreadsheets all over my bed. The budget everywhere. And I'm trying to figure out how to get $400,000 out of this budget so that we can get picked up for five more episodes. And we finally got there, but it was literally the day before we got you guys on a plane to go to New York.

[B]

Well, actually, did we go.

[C]

I don't even remember.

[B]

We got ourselves on a plane. Cause NBC said they wouldn't pay for it.

[C]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

The four of us were all.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

Like self traveling.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I don't know who. Terry, maybe it was you. But after we got back, someone made a stink and said, I can't believe you made those actors pay their own way. To the NBC upfront's announcement. And we all got reimbursed. Oh, someone's raising her hand.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That was infuriating.

[B]

Yeah, I. Infuriating. Yeah.

[C]

Cause you didn't pay for.

[B]

You found that out.

[A]

Brian and I flew ourselves out too. Yeah. After that year, NBC would fly us out. Yeah. But that's all you.

[C]

God, Jenna, I just thought about that one after party where I broke my back at Budokan. Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, my God. That was insane.

[B]

That was insane. Can I tell a story, though, that I think NBC was, like, really worried I was gonna sue because it was their party.

[C]

Of course they were.

[B]

Right. And I didn't. I didn't even. I don't know. They. They put me up at the Ritz Carlton because that's where they had put me, even though I'd asked to stay in soho. I just want to say I requested a cheaper hotel, but they're like, no, everybody has to stay at this one hotel. We can keep you together.

[A]

But you couldn't physically move.

[B]

But I could physically move for two weeks. So they paid my hotel bill. Yes, as I convalesced and mine and Angela's so she could be with me. And then I, like, slowly recovered, and I got ready to start the new season, and Ben Silverman took me out. This could be on. Obviously, he's burned to ground. It's not totally horrible or anything, but it's just, you know, a story. He took me out to dinner to sushi, because he said, hey, I just want to make sure you're feeling okay. You're up for the new season. And we got you this gift to say that we're just so sorry for the hardship. And it was this beautiful watch. It was beautiful. I was like, oh, my God, how.

[C]

Expensive is this watch?

[B]

This watch must be so expensive. I keep it in a safe all these years. I've coveted it.

[C]

Oh, my God. Was it an Oceanaut?

[A]

An. Oh, my God.

[B]

It was an ocean. It was an ocean.

[C]

Are you kidding me?

[B]

No, I am not kidding you. And I Googled it, and it's worth, like, 100 bucks. I thought it was worth thousands. Thousands of dollars. Thank you. I was trying to get it insured because I thought it's time. I should have done this years ago.

[A]

Do you have one, too?

[C]

I have one, too. And I actually think that Oceanot may have sent them to us.

[A]

So you didn't even pay for them?

[B]

So they were just in a closet at Reveille, and he just grabbed it, and he didn't even buy it for me. Ben Silverman. Ben Silverman, you cheap bastard. How dare you? You owe me a luxury watch.

[A]

Ben Silverman's been keeping.

[C]

He does. Benjamin.

[A]

Keeping you in a safe, Jenna.

[C]

A luxury watch. I mean, we love you, Oceanaut, but, you know.

[A]

Yeah, she's been keeping the Oceanaut in a safe for a decade.

[B]

Been keeping my $70 watch in a safe.

[C]

I think you might want to pull it out, maybe give it some wear.

[B]

I wear it. I wear it. But honestly, like, sometimes I don't wear it. Cause I'm like, I don't want someone to mug me.

[C]

Nobody's mugging you, baby.

[A]

Amazing.

[C]

That is so funny, Jenna. I'm dying about that.

[A]

That is amazing, actually.

[B]

Well, Terry, one of the things about you as a producer was that I felt really seen as both an artist and. And a human. That was a unique thing that you brought to your producing, and I know that it's something that you continue to do. And I want to pivot for a second because I want to talk about some of the ways that you really work to encourage other women, especially in this business. I was looking to get into producing. I reached out to you, I had this script, and I said, how do I develop this? How do I get this off the ground? You mentored me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Could you talk to the people out there who might be listening, who might be interested in wanting to work as a storyteller in the entertainment industry? What advice do you have? Because I know you have some that will be very valuable.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of these little pearls that I can drop. But one thing that I always say is that, you know, what we do is really hard. You know, it's a hard industry to be in. And so you better love what you do. You know, you have to start with something that you're passionate about, because you can smell when somebody is just trying to do something that they don't really care about. And I can feel that. And you can also feel that at the end of the day, if and when that work gets made. And so I think it's an insane amount of tenacity. I mean, my job is to get a yes. And until I get that yes, I'm going to do whatever I have to do to get that yes. And to use the experience and the knowledge that I have. But also, you have to be willing to put yourself out there and annoy the out of people so that they see you in front of them, you know? Cause we're in a big business, and people remember sort of what was in front of them in the last moment. And if Terry keeps calling and trying to get a piece of talent or try to sell something, you know, I always say if I call one more time, they're gonna put me in jail, have me arrested. But I end up getting my show made, you know, So I think it's tenacity, an amazing amount of discipline, because it takes a long time sometimes to get things made. And, you know, I've had things in development for five, six, seven years sometimes. And produce what you love and always go back to the place of, why am I telling this story, why am I telling it now? And who's gonna care? Or what life is it gonna affect? So for me, it's really important that I know I'm putting something out in the world that can maybe affect me, one person's life. Make them laugh, make them cry, make them see a community of people that you don't normally get to see relationships that aren't obvious. And that's the work, that's the joy for me is using the platform that I have to get stories out there that might not have had that opportunity to be produced.

[B]

That's very much what you told me at our lunch.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right there.

[C]

Yeah. It's my heart and my guts. And then you have to have the courage to just count on both of those things and not let anybody push that around. And you have to be willing to say no when somebody says, I want to buy your show, but I want to. I know you're selling a drama, but we really want it to be a half hour comedy. You have to be willing to say no. I'm not willing to do that just to have a show on the air.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Yeah. You know, so knowing and creating the boundaries of protecting the work and having the courage to say no if it doesn't feel right instead of just saying yes because you're getting a sale, I.

[B]

Should say I did end up selling that show. You did to Warner Brothers. It just didn't go anywhere. But I did get a sale.

[C]

That's a big deal.

[B]

And I was excited.

[C]

That's a big deal.

[B]

Yeah. And I sold a comedy as well. That again, they didn't end up getting made. But I felt like I.

[C]

You got it done.

[B]

I got it done. And I'm proud of that. And that was very much due to your coaching throughout that process.

[C]

But also, you did it.

[B]

I did it.

[C]

You used the tools that you learned and you got it done. And now you have that experience. So the next time you do it, you know what you need to do to get that thing made. Yeah.

[B]

I didn't get paid for it though, when I sold it.

[C]

Joined the club.

[B]

I know that's something that I think people don't know, like, until it gets made. Like my writer got paid, you know, the showrunner I had attached, they got paid to write the pilot.

[C]

People do not understand how unsung non writing producers are because you can develop something for years and not get paid for it until it sells.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And most people can't afford to do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which is why there's not a lot of us. But because I'm at a place in my career and I've gone to studios and said I need to get paid to develop this. I should get paid to develop it because it's going to get better because of what I'm going to bring to the project. Especially if a studio comes to me and says, we have this great project. Will you come produce it? If I love it and I align with it, yes, if you pay me, yes. You know, so it's really hard to make a living as a. As producer.

[A]

I sold two shows, but I wrote them. I pitched it and I wrote them. I wrote the pilot. So I did get paid, and neither of them got made. One came sort of close. But I think what I needed was after I wrote the pilot and got paid for the pilot, I needed someone to help me get it to that next place. Because what I didn't understand really, was sort of the politics of how then your pilot goes from being bought, written, goes through all the network notes, and then the people that bought my show then left the network and my show just got shelved. So it's so wonderful, Terri, that you just show up for people. And over the years, Jen and I have both gotten texts from you, like, here, if you ever need anything, and you mean it. That's the other thing. It's like how you read Jenna's script and immediately got back to her. It's something I really admire about you. You're not talk. If you say you're going to do something, you do it. And I think that was a great thing that we saw you do all the time on the show that I definitely took with me.

[C]

You know, integrity is really important to me.

I mean, first of all, I love you guys. I'll do anything for you, but I think it's really important. I need to wake up with myself in the morning and know that I've done good things and I've tried to help people, and I don't have an ego about. I think there's room for all kinds of people to do what we do, especially women. And if we can help each other, why wouldn't we? I'm not competitive with other women. I want. There's room for all of us. So I think it's really important that I become that vessel for some people to be able to help them so that we can continue on with generations of women doing the work.

[A]

And you're so doing that. You're a keynote speaker now. You did a TED Talk, which was amazing. Jenna and I both watched it. It's titled Aging into Power, which I appreciated that first word.

Can you tell us about how that came about?

[C]

Yes. There was a gentleman who was putting together this series called Bold and Provocative Ideas that Can Save the World. That was the theme behind this particular TED Talk. And he called me up and said, I came to one of your Keynotes or I was on a panel or something. Have you ever thought about doing a TED Talk?

And without even thinking about it, I said, yes. I never thought about doing a TED Talk. I just said yes. And he said, I'm doing a series called Bold and Provocative Ideas that Can Change the World. And I said, I'm not sure what my bold and provocative idea is.

But I'll figure it out because I'm going to do this. And I don't know who was talking at that time, because it was one of the scariest things I've ever done in my life. I mean, I've stood in front of theaters of people and, you know, talked about shows and everything that I do behind the camera. I don't talk about my life very much. And I pretty sacred about my personal life and things that I have gone through as an executive and as a human. And I thought, maybe it's time for me to step out and share my story so that maybe my story, now, my personal story, will help other women. And what I hear so much is, I don't know. I'm not good enough. I don't know. I don't have the experience. I don't know. I think I'm too old to do that. I can't do that. I'm not strong enough. And I just got so tired of hearing that. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to talk about the things that I've experienced and some of the hardships that I've had. And that feels comfortable for me because it's my life and I've lived it and kind of the rest is history. And so I wanted people to know that what I've done in my life, I mean, I'm 65, you guys. I did this TED talk 21 days before I turned 65.

[A]

Unreal to me that when I say.

[C]

That, it just feels like I'm talking about somebody else, because I feel like I'm 30 years old. And there are so many women in their 40s.

That are younger than all of us that say, I can't start something new now. Are you insane? I mean, I'm going to start something new until I can't breathe. We always have an opportunity to do something new. I mean, look at the empire you guys are creating. Recognize people, recognize Jenna and Angela. So it was really an exercise for me to come out of from behind the camera to share my story. And everything that I talked about just sort of came out. I wrote it. But I also just spoke from my heart.

[B]

Lady I think there's something weirdly therapeutic about getting fresh socks. Brand new socks.

[A]

Yeah. Nice, good socks.

[B]

It's such a treat. It's a nice thing to do for yourself. And I think the best socks are Bombas socks. I asked for Bombus socks for Christmas. My, my father in law said, what do you want for Christmas? I said, I want Bombas socks. Like every year just get me fresh Bombas socks. And he does now every year. That's what I get. And I absolutely love it.

[A]

They're my daughter and I's favorite. I just ordered a two pack. I got her one and me one of the women's modern ribbed ankle sock. You can get it in an eight pack. I love them. I wear them all the time and so does she. But I have to share one other thing that I put. I put it on my Christmas list.

[C]

What?

[A]

Okay. Did you know that Bombas is making slippers now?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean lady, did you see them? They're so cute.

[B]

Yep, I did. Well, I just love this company because for every pair of Bombas that you purchase, Bombas donates one to someone facing homelessness on your behalf.

[A]

We love Bombas. You guys head over to bombas.com officeladies and use code officeladies for 20% off your first purchase.

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[A]

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[B]

We probably don't need to tell you that our officeladies.com website is active and wonderful. Thanks to Squarespace.

[A]

Yeah, we've talked about Squarespace a lot because we love it and we use it every single week.

[B]

Yes, Ileana manages our website and she does it through Squarespace. And the reason that she does it through Squarespace is because it is so user friendly.

[A]

It's so user friendly that only a handful of times when Ileana has taken a vacation or been out of town, she passes this torch along to Josh.

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[A]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Okay, Terri, it is time for the call sheet questions. I'm gonna go first. There are five. Okay, number one, what was your first entertainment job?

[C]

I was a floater assistant at icm.

[B]

Oh. What's a floater assistant?

[C]

You do not have a permanent assignment. You only. You're called in when an assistant is sick or, or on vacation and you just literally sit down in a seat and you work for the agent for the day or the week or wherever you're needed. So you go wherever they tell you to go. And it was a temp job.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

All right, I've got the next one. Do you speak any other languages?

[C]

Well, un poquito. I strive to speak better Spanish because one of my most favorite places on earth is El Salvador, which is where I surf a lot. So a little Spanish, some Hebrew. I think that's probably it. Ladies.

[B]

Well, this leads very well into the next question.

[A]

It does. And maybe you'll expand on this. What's a place you've been to that you absolutely loved?

[C]

El Salvador. Yeah. Yes. I've been going there for the past 10 years now. My best friend in the world has introduced me to it because that's where I've been going to surf camps and also to her wellness retreats. And I just fell in love with the country and she's since moved there. Pixie Asea ICU. And it was a dream that she had for 10 years. And she's an incredible surfer, but she's also in the wellness industry and she would take people outside their comfort zone. So we've been to Puerto Rico, Nicaragua, El Salvador. And that's where I kind of learned. That's where I learned how to surf. That's where I first cliff dived. That's where I did my first ice bath. All did all these things that I didn't think I would do in my life.

[B]

I'm sorry, what is a cliff dive?

[C]

So you go on a cliff and you jump off into.

[B]

You just jump off the cliff?

[C]

Yes. You do?

[A]

Hmm.

[C]

Yeah. And I'm afraid of heights.

[A]

Yeah, I am too.

[C]

And I recently. I was there three weeks ago, and not only did I jump off the cliff, but I jumped twice. Nice.

[A]

I ziplined and I ziplined for the first time, and that was terrifying, but I did it. Cause you have to step off that ledge, and you're like, whew.

[C]

And then if you kind of do one of those look downs, and you realize that you're thousands of feet in the air. Yeah.

[B]

Do we need a ladies trip to a wellness retreat in El Salvador?

[C]

Yes, you do, because it will change your life.

[B]

So you'll send us a link?

[C]

Yes, I will. I surfed for the first time, I think, in 2018, on her retreat, and I was scared to death. And now it's just so liberating.

[B]

I want to point out that 2018 is when you started surfing. So you were over the age of 50.

[C]

I was 55.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I was 56 because I did my first triathlon when I was 55.

[B]

Wow. See, this is what I'm saying.

[C]

And also, you guys, I did not know how to swim, and I did not know how to swim when you.

[B]

Signed up to be in a triathlon.

[C]

So I had to be taught how to swim and then get in that ocean and swim a mile.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

So the first triathlon I did was in Kona, Hawaii, and it took me an hour to go a mile in the water. In the water. I mean, it was exhausting.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

My manager, Naomi, sometimes there'll be, like, a project or a job opportunity or something, and it'll seem very daunting to me for whatever reason, either creatively or logistically, but yet there's a reason I want to do it. And she'll say, jenna, you don't have to figure out all the details before you say yes. Say yes, and then you will rise to the occasion and be ready when it's time. So just say yes, and you'll get yourself there.

[C]

Hello, Naomi.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That is the best advice. And she's right. You can't. You don't have to have it all figured out. Say yes, and then you determine what feels good for you.

[B]

Question number four. What do you like to do on the weekends?

[C]

Surf.

[B]

Now, sensing a theme.

[C]

You know, I'm writing a lot, you guys, because I'm writing a book.

[A]

Yeah, we wanted to ask you about that. Can you tell us about your upcoming book?

[C]

Yeah, I think. You know, I started writing a book proposal the day after the writer's strike happened because I'd wanted to write for a long time, and I never had the time to do it because I was busy helping everybody else write their things or do their, you know, develop their projects. And so I just sat down and just started blathering things and wrote a book proposal and got myself a literary agent. She took it out to some publishers, which is out there right now, and I don't like it anymore, so.

[B]

Because I've grown. Wait, you don't like your book proposal?

[C]

I don't like it.

[B]

Is it fiction or nonfiction?

[C]

It's My Life. It's nonfiction.

[B]

Oh, memoir.

[C]

It's memoir. But it also has practical guides in it. Here's how I navigated this thing.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So how. Here's how you can step into your power. So what? Now it's out in the world at publishers.

[C]

I'm gonna pull it back.

[A]

You're gonna pull it back.

[C]

I'm gonna have the courage to say thank you. If you have read this or if it's sitting on your desk, please take it off. Because I have grown so much, even in the last two years, my voice is different. What I want to talk about is different. And so I'm just rewriting it from page one.

[B]

My God, I just love you. I love you. Terry. Terry. This is what I love about you.

[C]

I love you.

[B]

It's kind of what you said before about how if you put a project out there and then it doesn't end up feeling right, don't be afraid to just. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Because we grow. We change so much.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and I figured if I'm going to put myself out into the world and if there's a teaching component to the book, I've done so many more speaking kinds of things, and I've been exposed to so many more women and people in different industries that I don't just talk about entertainment. You know, I can talk to C suite women. I did a huge conversation with women who are on Capitol Hill. You know, I'm not in politics, but the connection was storytelling. You know, so there's so many things that I can do and talk about now that I want to put in there. So I just said it. I'm just gonna write the book. Not write a proposal. I'm just gonna write a book. I'll put the book out there, and if I don't get a publisher, I'll self publish.

[B]

That's what I did with my acting book, Terri. I wrote the book An Actor's Life. And it's a combination of memoir and then also advice for aspiring actors. Take it or leave it. You know, it's just my story. Everybody has a different one.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

But I ended up writing it and it got published by a small publishing house, a family run business in Texas. But I wrote it on spec, as they say. I didn't have an advance, but I wrote it from the heart. And what I liked about that is I had also taken out a proposal to big publishers and they wanted me to tweak it. They said, well, this is great, but can you also talk about what it's like to be a mom in Hollywood? Can you also talk about stories from the office? Can you tell us about that? Can you tell us about, like. And I said, that's not what this book is. That's a great book. That sounds wonderful. That's not the book I'm looking to write. So I just wrote it myself and it was great.

[C]

That's full circle to you can't be. Don't be afraid to. If you're putting a project out there, you know, to have somebody say, oh, we love this, but we would like you to make these changes to it, or you must cast this certain person or do those things within our industry that don't feel good. And you're at a point in your life where you can say no.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And have the confidence to say no and feel good about it.

[A]

And also you're recognizing that you're still, even at 65, learning who you are, who what your voice is and what you want to share, you're still having discovery. So that's great.

[C]

I mean, that's just the beauty of as we age, you know, you kind of get smacked over the head with this wisdom of, oh, wait. Oh, I knew that. Oh, I can actually. I can do that too. You know, so it's just we put limitations on ourselves, and that's the only reason why we don't do certain things, because we convince ourselves that we can't do it. We can do whatever we put our minds to.

[A]

We sure as hell can. All right, next question. What's your favorite midnight snack?

[C]

Chocolate Any way I can get it.

[B]

Dark chocolate, white chocolate, milk chocolate, Dark.

[C]

Purest as it can be. Has to be kind of over 70%, almost 80, because then it's too.

What's the word? When it doesn't have a real chocolatey taste, it's too bitter. So I like to have a little bit of sweetness, but I want it to be as pure chocolate as possible.

[B]

You like a little sea salt on that?

[C]

Love sea salt.

[A]

Do you keep it in the fridge?

[C]

Freezer.

[A]

Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

[C]

Yeah. Freezer chocolate bars. I actually brought you guys chocolate truffles.

[A]

Did you really?

[C]

You did? In your freezer?

[A]

I can't wait.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Well, those were our call sheet questions. But before we go, we have our office question of the week. This is our first time trying it.

[A]

You're our first guest for our office question of the week.

[B]

Terry.

[A]

I love this.

[C]

I'll be your guinea pig.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

So we went through our office mailbag. We found a question we liked. Cassie reached out and got an audio clip from the person who wrote in. So let's hear our very first office question of the week.

[A]

Hi, Angela, Cassie, Jenna and Sam. First, a huge thank you for the.

[B]

Shout out in the all about Angela Martin episode.

[A]

It was my son that was relieved that Angela Kinsey isn't a quote unquote bee in real life. He was thrilled to hear you mention it.

[B]

His name is Liam. Hi, Liam here.

[A]

Thank you for the shout out. So the question I would love to hear the group talk about is, would you rather, if you had to pick an investment to put your own money into, would you rather invest in Jan's Serenity by Jan or Ryan's woof and why?

[B]

And Cassie, I know you don't like.

[A]

Being forced into a binary and I agree that no one should be. So feel free to pick some other investment opportunity. Thanks all. Love you so much. Bye.

[B]

How amazing is that, little Liam?

[A]

Oh, my gosh. That is the sweetest accent.

[C]

Is she. Where is she from?

[A]

Is that Canada? Canada. She is from Calgary. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Lisa, thank you so much for writing in and then leaving us that lovely message and. Oh, my gosh, Liam.

[B]

All right, so what do we think? Yeah. Terri, are you investing in Jan's serenity by Jan or Ryan's wolf?

[C]

Yeah, I have to say it's Serenity by Jan. I mean, I love a nice candle. I love a nice romantic atmosphere. I also like to have a candle on my desk, you know, when I'm working. I'm not sure About Jan's scents.

[B]

The actual scents.

[C]

The actual scents of the candles. But I would lean towards the more ethereal kind of business. What about you guys?

[B]

Okay, well, I like what you're saying. Woman led business. You know, I think she could be very successful, especially nowadays where she could get her candles out on all of the socials. On Etsy, maybe.

[A]

Can you imagine Jan on TikTok?

[B]

Ugh.

[A]

That would have been fantastic.

[C]

Fantastic.

[B]

But ultimately, I think I could get roped into investing in Woof.com because I like the idea of it. I like the idea of consolidating all of my information. I don't know. I'm going to say if only allowed to invest in those two things, I would probably put my thousand dollars behind woof dot com.

[A]

Sam, Cassie, do you guys want to weigh in? I'm gonna go with Ryan's. But you have to get out early.

[C]

Because his do make money. Pyramid schemes work if you're one of the first investors.

[B]

Oh, it was a pyramid scheme.

[A]

Woof.com is when everything went off and sounded off.

[C]

No, but it's a pyramid scheme. So if you get in early, you just make money and then.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Oh, it's super illegal. But for my personal investment, Ryan's, you just got to get out early.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

It's very astute.

[B]

I appreciate Lisa saying that.

[C]

I don't have to pick either, because.

[B]

For me, if I can choose anybody to invest in on the show, I would invest in Dwight's bed and breakfast.

[C]

I think I'd make the most money.

[B]

Because he is difficult to work with.

[C]

But he is the most successful business.

[B]

Person, I think, on the show.

[A]

That's fair. I'm going Serenity by Jan. And I'll tell you why right now. If someone calls me, my watch rings, my laptop rings. I don't need multiple things buzzing me. Okay, stop buzzing me everywhere. All the time. And that's what Wolf is. You get an alert on everything. And I already have that.

[B]

Well, now you do.

[C]

But if you notice, you and I went on a creative instinct and Jenna went on, oh, this is a money. This is an investment. Because Woof is going to end up being $1 billion company and we're going to be schlepping candles.

[A]

I know.

[C]

On Etsy.

[A]

I know.

[C]

So I did go a little shrewd, I would say.

[A]

You went tech. We went like experience.

[C]

Yeah. We went softy.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So you know what?

[A]

Maybe we'd end up having a goop candle that everyone talks about. Maybe Jan would make the vagina candle she might.

[B]

The Goop. Vagina candle.

[A]

The Goop. Vagina candle.

[B]

Gwyneth Paltrow made a candle that is scented like her vagina.

[A]

Siri just fell backwards.

[C]

There is not a chance it sold out.

[B]

Yeah. She smelled a candle. I guess they. I don't know the story exactly. This is the lore, right, that they presented her with a candle, and they said, what do you think it smells like? And she said, my vagina. And so that's what they put on the candle, and it sold out.

[A]

And so I am saying that Jan, in all of her amazingness, would probably sell a candle called my vagina. She might. We could be money makers, Terry.

[C]

The vagina candle.

[B]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's right. I mean, I know there was a candle called vagina.

[C]

I'm just trying to figure out who would think that their vagina smelled like a candle other people would want to have in their room.

[B]

Gwyneth. Yeah. Here's an article. Why is Gwyneth Paltrow selling a candle that smells like her vagina? Gwyneth made a candle called this Smells like My vagina for her website. Goop.

[C]

She sure did.

[A]

Mm. Anyway, I'm just saying, Jan, I see you in this moment.

[C]

By the way, it's $67.

[B]

Yeah. Right now it's not inexpensive. Gwyneth's vagina candle.

[C]

Wow. Okay. See what I learned today.

[A]

Mm. Look, we learned something new, Terri.

[C]

Right? See?

[A]

Check it off your list.

[B]

Check it off. I think I know what I'm getting you for Christmas.

[C]

Oh, boy. You got that going for me.

[B]

Well, Terri, this was a lot of fun. Thank you so much.

[C]

It was so my pleasure. I love seeing you guys.

[B]

I love seeing you too.

[A]

Thanks for all the words of wisdom and having our back all these years.

[C]

Still do.

[A]

Still do.

[C]

Love you guys.

[A]

Love you.

[B]

Love you.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

[A]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[B]

Our executive producer is Kelly Cassie Jerkins. Our audio engineer is Sam Kieffer, and our associate producer is Ainslie Bubaco.

[A]

Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis.

[B]

Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

[A]

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

So, Jenna, you and I always say you're never too old to be curious about something, to learn something new. There's a great way to learn new things, and that is with Masterclass. And you get to learn from the best, to become the best, like the best in whatever field that is. You get to take a class with them.

[B]

I have a stat. They surveyed Masterclass members and 88% of people said said Masterclass had made a positive impact on their lives. I don't doubt it. Yeah, I like to stretch my brain. I like to learn something new.

[A]

With Masterclass you get thousands of bite sized lessons across 13 categories and they can fit even into your busiest schedule.

[B]

Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com officeladies for the current offer.

[A]

That's up to 50% off at masterclass.com.

[B]

Officeladies masterclass.com officeladies the United States Postal Service has been connecting families, friends and businesses near and far for over 250 years. And during the holidays, that promise is more important than ever because it's about more than just gifts and cards. It's the peace of mind knowing your love will arrive reliably and afford affordably. That's why they're building a better network to meet your needs this season, working.

[A]

Around the clock to ensure timely deliveries, offering easy and affordable ways to ship, and providing everything you need to make your season full of holiday cheer. From stamps to packages, this holiday season, trust the United States Postal Service to carry your most precious deliveries. Visit USPS.com and/holidays to find tools and tips to help you ship with confidence. The United States Postal service delivering since 1775.