Office Ladies – "Second Drink: Business School"

Podcast: Office Ladies
Hosts: Jenna Fischer & Angela Kinsey
Episode Air Date: September 1, 2025
Episode Focus: Season 3, Episode 16 of The Office, “Business School”

Overview

In this episode, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey, former co-stars of The Office and best friends, revisit “Business School,” one of Season 3's most beloved and layered episodes. With signature warmth and humor, they break down the episode’s key storylines—Michael’s visit to Ryan’s class, the infamous office bat, and Pam’s art show—while sharing behind-the-scenes stories, deleted scenes, fan questions, and exclusive audio from writer Brent Forrester and actress Kate Flannery.

Key Discussion Points

1. Episode Summary & Origins

• Succinct Recap:

  • Ryan brings Michael to talk at his business class
  • A bat causes chaos at Dunder Mifflin
  • Jim pretends to turn into a vampire to prank Dwight
  • Pam’s artwork is shown at an art exhibition
    • (08:29) A: “Four simple sentences. And yet it is not simple at all.”

• Writer's Room Insight:

  • Writer Brent Forrester received two prompt cards: "business school" and "bat in the office."
    • (08:48) B: “He was just handed two, three by five cards. One said business school and the other said bat in the office.”
  • The "business school" card had been on the wall for a long time; it was Greg Daniels’ idea (09:13).

2. Directing by Joss Whedon

• Buffy Connection Coincidence:

  • Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, directed this episode by coincidence—a vampire subplot in "Business School."
  • (10:02) B (imitating Joss): “Come on, guys, you gave me the bat vampire story.”

• Whedon's Contribution:

  • Brent Forrester notes Whedon's influence, such as Jim’s Dracula-like collar flip that wasn’t scripted.
    • (11:02) C (Brent): “...he turns and he flips up his collar… the perfect image of Dracula… totally the contribution of a guy who has worked a long way time in the vampire genre. That was pure Joss Whedon.”

3. Behind-the-Scenes: Locations and Logistics

• Filming Locations:
  • Both the business school and Pam’s art show scenes were filmed at Cal State Northridge.
  • Over 120 extras were used for the classroom and campus, backgrounds included real students’ varied laptops (13:23).
• Rainn Wilson’s SNL Host Spot:
  • Rainn hosted SNL 9 days after “Business School” aired, triggering adjustments to The Office shooting schedule.
  • Jenna recounts Kristen Wiig sending her the SNL parody painting—now framed in Jenna’s family room (16:02).
    • (16:18) A: “She held up on the show. She signed the back of it… I have it framed, and it’s in my family room.”

4. The Bat Scene

• Office Bat Mayhem:

  • The bat panic was choreographed since much of it relied on CGI except for a few scenes with a real bat and a mechanical prop.
  • Real bat named “Gary” by Rainn Wilson (30:30).

• Angela’s Method Acting:

  • Angela describes improvising her character’s prayer:
    • (27:32) B: “‘God, this is Angela Martin, please don’t let that stupid thing come anywhere near me…’”

• Poop Raining from the Ceilings:

  • Angela’s fan-favorite line was workshopped for emotional tone (34:02).
    • (33:39) B: “‘Poop is raining from the ceilings. Poop.’”

• Bats CGI & Animal Actors:

  • Real bat for close-up shots, CGI for flying, mechanical bat for stunt work with Meredith and bat wranglers present (30:12).

5. Michael at Business School

• Michael’s Disastrous Speech:

  • Starts with bravado, candy bar puns, and an ill-received motivational speech
  • Classic Michael: “May your hats fly as high as your dreams.” (23:06)
  • Michael is blind-sided when Ryan’s introduction frames Dunder Mifflin as obsolete. (36:17)

• Brent Forrester on Steve Carell’s Live Performance Energy:

  • (39:08) C: “Steve performs. Silence. Cut. Huge laugh... They stand up and give him this ovation... I saw the tears come to his eyes...”
  • The student extras were huge fans, and Carell thrived on their “audience” energy.

6. Pam’s Art Show – Heart and Heartbreak

• Wardrobe & Art Details:

  • Jenna worked closely with wardrobe and hair stylists to make “artsy Pam” (53:06).
  • Joss Whedon insisted on changing one watercolor painting (from a church to a stapler) for authenticity, enlisting a local art student to paint it on the spot (55:12).
    • (55:12) C (Brent): “Joss would not back down… The assistant director went into a classroom… paid her $50… She cranked out this picture of a stapler…”

• Pam’s Vulnerability:

  • Roy’s lackluster support, Oscar and Gil’s frank criticism (“motel art”), and the theme of honesty and courage in art vs. life (69:38).
  • Angela: “She needs Roy to be more of a support, and he’s just not able” (68:58).

• Michael Shows Up:

  • Michael’s sincere praise provides Pam the affirmation she needs in one of the series’ most heartfelt scenes.
    • (71:37) A: “Michael is immediately just so taken with her art… these two human beings are coming together, and they heal one another.”

• Jenna on Performing the Scene:

  • (73:38) A: “I didn’t have to prepare much for this because my scene partner was Steve Carell... he looked at me and said ‘I’m proud of you’… I just started crying.”
  • Brent Forrester describes (76:19) the resonance between Pam’s story and Jenna’s real-life struggles as an actress.

7. Storytelling Insights from the Writers’ Room

• Emotional Resolution Lessons:
  • Brent recalls Greg Daniels advocating for “emotional resolution and consolation, even if the character does not accomplish the stated goal.”
    • (80:45) C: “You don't get what you want, but you get what you need.”

8. The Infamous Bat Capture – Realities and Movie Magic

• How The Bat Scene Was Filmed (with Kate Flannery):
  • Both real and mechanical bats used; Kate wore a headband with a battery-operated bat for close-ups inside the bag.
  • Kate was not allowed to actually scream (to not spook the real bat)! (64:01)

9. Additional Fan Q&A and Deleted Scenes

• Deleted Scenes:

  • More cutaways of Meredith trapped and Angela/Kelly leaving together, joking about the “power of prayer” (62:15).
  • Deleted scene: Karen tries to remove Pam’s art show flyer (85:56).
  • Meredith’s crude joke about Pam and Roy, mostly ad-libbed and bleeped (87:12).

• Miscellaneous:

  • The Dunder Mifflin watercolor was a modified photo, not a handmade painting (58:13).
  • Jenna still owns Pam’s “Dunder Mifflin” artwork (83:27).
  • Brent’s online TV writing class plug (89:15).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dwight’s Motivational Wisdom:

  • (03:23) Dwight: “Don’t be an idiot. Changed my life. Whenever I’m about to do something, I think, would an idiot do that? And if they would, I do not do that thing.”

• Angela’s Prayer:

  • (27:32) B: “God, this is Angela Martin, please don’t let that stupid thing come anywhere near me.”

• Michael’s Hat Advice:

  • (23:06) A: “May your hats fly as high as your dreams.”

• Michael’s Breakdown at Business School:

  • (52:00) “Ryan doesn’t know anything and neither do you. So suck on that.”

• Pam’s Art Show Realization:

  • (71:30) A: “Michael is immediately just so taken with her art. And some of this is because of what he’s been through today… these two human beings are coming together, and they heal one another.”

• Brent Forrester on Jenna’s Performance:

  • (76:19) C: “If you try to be an artist… there will come moments of failure where your belief in yourself is dashed… It is heartbreak and it is gratitude, it is just the whole human experience wrapped up in a single take…it’s part of why I will always be so grateful that I got to write this episode for one of my favorite actresses of all time, Jenna Fischer.”

• Brent on Emotional Endings:

  • (80:45) C (paraphrasing Greg Daniels): “You don’t get what you want, but you get what you need… it’s a great lesson in storytelling.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 08:14–09:23 – Origin of “business school” and “bat in the office” writers’ cards
• 10:02–11:27 – Joss Whedon’s direction and vampire subplot
• 13:23 – Location trivia and extras’ laptop details
• 16:02–16:45 – Kristen Wiig’s SNL painting gift to Jenna
• 27:32–28:30 – Angela Martin praying during bat chaos
• 30:30 – Rainn Wilson names the bat “Gary”
• 34:02–34:32 – Angela’s “Poop is raining from the ceilings” talking head
• 36:17–37:05 – Michael’s unflattering business class introduction and reaction
• 39:08–40:30 – Brent describes Steve Carell’s live lecture hall performance
• 53:06–54:06 – Pam’s art show wardrobe/hairstyle
• 55:12–57:31 – Brent recounts Joss Whedon’s insistence on authentic Pam artwork
• 71:30–73:39 – Michael affirms Pam at her art show, Jenna on preparing for the scene
• 76:19–78:25 – Brent on Pam’s story, correlation with Jenna’s acting journey
• 80:45–82:21 – Emotional vs. structural story endings, writer’s room wisdom
• 64:01–66:35 – Kate Flannery details how Meredith/bat scenes were filmed

Tone & Language

Consistently warm, affectionate, and honest, with lots of personal asides and shared laughter. Jenna and Angela balance fond nostalgia, emotional insight, and playful banter, capturing the heart of both the show and their friendship.

Final Notes

“Business School” stands as a favorite episode because of its perfect blend of comedy (the bat), workplace absurdity (Michael’s doomed lecture), and poignant character moments (Pam’s vulnerable art show, Michael’s unexpected support). As always, the Office Ladies’ deep dive enriches appreciation for the writing, acting, and loving detail behind each episode, with ample laughs and inspiration along the way.

End of Summary