Second Drink: The Job Part 1 with Paul Lieberstein

Summary

Office Ladies – "Second Drink: The Job Part 1" with Paul Lieberstein

Podcast Date: October 20, 2025
Hosts: Jenna Fischer & Angela Kinsey
Guest: Paul Lieberstein (Writer, Actor—Toby Flenderson)

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Episode Overview

In this special "Second Drink" episode, Jenna and Angela welcome Paul Lieberstein, writer, showrunner, and the actor behind Toby Flenderson, to break down the pivotal season 3 finale of The Office, "The Job Part 1." The episode dives deep into the storylines, production process, and behind-the-scenes context of this major transition episode, with laughter, insights, and exclusive recollections from the set. With anecdotes from Paul, memories of casting decisions, deleted scenes, and thoughtful analysis of Jim and Pam’s emotional arcs, this episode uncovers the creative forces that shaped one of The Office’s most beloved finales.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Episode Context & Superfan Edition

• The original broadcast of "The Job" was a special, hour-long episode (really 40 mins with commercials) that served as the season 3 finale (02:32).
• The "Superfan" edition, now available, runs over an hour and includes additional/deleted scenes, notably an extended cold open with Jim and Pam at the beach, restoring moments that illuminate Pam’s character evolution (03:02–04:14).

2. Restored and Deleted Scenes Highlighted

• Pam and Jim Beach Flashback: Originally intended as the cold open, this restored scene shows a "new, direct" Pam communicating unapologetically (04:14).

  • Quote:
    Pam (Jenna): "You know what's interesting? I don't feel embarrassed at all. I just feel good. Good. If you don't have anything to say, you don't have to say anything—or I take that back. You have to say something." (04:26)
  • Dave Rogers (editor) calls this one of his favorite moments, synonymous with the “creative freedom” of the show’s docu-style editing (05:28).

• Dwight Interviews Andy: The Superfan cut restores a long, hilarious sequence of Dwight grilling Andy to be his number two, featuring wild questions and on-the-fly writer jokes (07:24).

  • Sample Q&A:
    • Dwight: "What is 879 times 413.7?"
    • Andy: "2401.647, repeating."
    • ...
    • Dwight: "What is the Dharma Initiative?"
    • Andy: "It is the source of all energy on this planet. It is a corporation formed by aliens." (07:24–08:23)

3. Jim, Pam, and Karen: Relationship Dynamics

• Listener letter explores Jim's emotional detachment from Karen and hints on how the cracks in their relationship become clear during the finale (08:45).
  • Quote:
    Jenna: "...when I rewatched this episode... They are just, like—they are not a match. It was so clear to me when I rewatched this episode." (09:58)

4. Paul Lieberstein: Becoming Toby & The Writer-Actor Experiment

On How He Became Toby

• Greg Daniels intentionally blurred the writer/actor divide, giving small roles to writers so they could inform their scripts from an acting perspective (16:09–17:50).
• Paul was cast rather casually:
  • Paul: "I left the [writers'] room and I came back and they said, 'You're going to play this part.' And it was one line in Diversity Day…" (16:51)

Early Table Reads & Unexpected Longevity

• At first, Toby was not meant to recur; he was cast to deliver one line and get kicked out by Michael (18:47, 19:15).
• The organic and very funny interaction between Paul’s deadpan and Steve Carell’s antagonism helped the character stick.

“Acting School” for Writers

• Paul shares how logistical acting tips (like moving water bottles for continuity) became his earliest acting lessons (20:09).
• Brian Baumgartner helped him “break through” by explaining practical acting adjustments for sound—enlightening Paul on what actors must do to stay “real” on camera (21:05).
  • Quote:
    Paul: “They have to justify anything that needs to be done and make it feel real.” (21:54)

Impact on Show’s Culture

• The blending of writers and cast fostered creative trust and gave The Office its unique collaborative energy (22:05–22:55).

5. The Writing and Production of "The Job"

• Paul and Mike Schur co-wrote the episode, collaborating closely and dividing scenes between themselves and small writer groups (23:14–24:45).
• The process was flexible: sometimes a sole vision, often highly collaborative, always dialogue-driven (24:45).

Storylines Origin & Jan’s “Boob Job”

• The "Jan gets a boob job" idea lived on a card in the writers' room for months, waiting for the right moment (25:26).
  • Jan’s spiral into self-destruction was discovered during her solo talking head in “Cocktails,” clarifying her future narrative arc (25:49).
  • Paul: “Once we got that, this was like a stage in her spiral.” (26:00)
• Melora and Steve’s chemistry in Jan and Michael’s scenes was repeatedly praised (26:17–26:57).

Iconic Running Gags:

• Creed Thoughts Blog: Mike Schur wrote the "Creed thoughts" talking head; Jason Kessler, the show’s writer’s assistant, ran the associated NBC.com blog in Creed's voice (27:11).
• Schrute Bucks: Likely credited to Justin Spitzer, these "currency" props proliferated around set and inspired a deleted subplot about Creed trying to “flood the market” (27:49–28:44).

Fan-Favorite Writing

• Paul loved writing for Creed, Kevin, Michael (“His voice is just so clear in my head”), but found every character fun and inspiring in their own ways (29:36–30:17).

Favorite Moments

• • Paul: "I really laughed out loud when [Michael says to Hunter about Jan], 'Tell her I want to squeeze them. She'll know what I mean.'" (30:27)
  • He also loved the framing and tension of Jan’s firing, David Wallace’s strength, and Michael hiding behind the doorframe—a masterclass in balancing awkwardness and character truth (30:56).

6. Inside Writer Motivations: Ryan, Karen, and Corporate

• Fans ask: Why did Ryan, not Karen, get the corporate job—Ryan didn’t meet the sales experience requirement?
  • Paul: The real-life reason was to shake up character dynamics by putting Ryan (B.J. Novak) in charge; he’s a “good bullshitter but incompetent,” making for rich story potential (32:37).
  • It also opened doors for Jim/Pam storylines and fun status reversals between Michael and Ryan (33:40).

Abandoned Card: The Lost Double Date Episode

• A “double date” card sat on the writers’ wall for years (Jim+Pam & Dwight+Angela), but was never produced.
  • Jenna: “It haunts me.” (34:38)

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Additional Behind-the-Scenes Stories

The Writer-Actor Bond

• Angela and Jenna reflect on the culture crafted on The Office, where actors frequented the writers’ room, fostering an atmosphere of safety, collaboration, and trust uncharacteristic of most TV sets (22:55).

Character Ownership by Writers

• Some writers had favorite characters—Mike Schur enjoyed “Angela Martin falling apart,” Justin Spitzer championed “Dwight stuff,” and the team routinely redistributed storylines so all writers had “their” moments (29:17–29:41).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Jenna Fischer: "Pam just says, ‘Jim was nice, told me that he missed our friendship too.’ And then they kind of hug and walk off... Even the way it was in the original broadcast really illuminated the creative freedom that the documentary filmmakers have when they are deciding what they want to show and when." (05:27)
• Paul Lieberstein (on acting): "Imagine going into acting knowing nothing about acting, and the first thing you're being taught is take your water bottle off your desk and put it underneath your desk… It was like, things like that that made up my acting school." (20:11)
• Angela Kinsey: "It was so fun to have you guys on set. It’s hard for me to imagine other shows now without that creative collaboration and that feeling of safety and trust." (22:55)
• Paul Lieberstein (on Jan’s storyline): "Once we got that, this was like a stage in her spiral." (26:09)
• Paul Lieberstein (on favorite moment): "I really laughed out loud when Hunter... Tell her I want to squeeze them. She'll know what I mean." (30:27)
• Jenna Fischer (on Ryan’s promotion): "It’s almost Shakespearean, you know, it’s like Michael thinks of himself as the king and this like lowly peasant just went right past him." (33:59)

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Notable Timestamps for Key Topics

• Pam & Jim Beach Scene Superfan Flashback: 03:44–05:27
• Extra Andy/Dwight Interview Questions: 07:09–08:23
• Listener Letter on Jim/Karen/Pam: 08:44–09:55
• Paul Lieberstein’s Interview Begins: 14:28
• On the Writer-Actor Experiment: 16:09–21:54
• Writing The Job with Mike Schur: 23:05–24:45
• Jan’s Augmentation Storyline: 25:26–26:09
• Schrute Bucks & Creed Thoughts Blog: 27:11–28:44
• Fan Question: Why Ryan, Not Karen?: 32:22–33:40
• Unmade Jim/Dwight & Angela/Pam Double Date: 34:38–35:41

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The Show’s Emotional Arc and Thematic Takeaways

• The episode is about transition: leadership at Dunder Mifflin, relationship crossroads, personal metamorphosis.
• Pam’s new confidence and Anna Karenina "all or nothing" honesty is both cringe-inducing and cathartic.
• The series’ docu-style editing, as discussed by Dave Rogers, is a creative playground that shapes both character and audience perception.

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Final Thoughts

The "Second Drink" edition delivers everything an Office fan craves: inside jokes, honest reflections on character and craft, and the loving, comedic chemistry of the cast and crew. Paul’s guest spot is a highlight, revealing the calculated chaos and happy accidents that made The Office an enduring classic.

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Next Week:
The breakdown continues with "The Job Part 2": all the drama in New York, Dwight as regional manager, Pam’s secret new role, and more exclusive stories.

[End of summary]

Transcript

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

Hello and welcome to your second drink of the job, part one.

[Angela Kinsey]

Paul Lieberstein joined us for the top of this episode. You know, he wrote this episode along with Mike Schur. What a dynamic duo.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right?

[Angela Kinsey]

This was a great interview. We got to hear all about how he came to play Toby.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And he gave some really fun facts about this episode as well. So the job part one ran as a special hour long season three finale episode along with the job part two. But, you know, it was actually only 40 minutes with commercials. Well, the Superfan episode for the job 1 and 2 is over an hour long. A real hour, no commercials.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's like a mini the Office movie.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. It's almost like they added a third episode and there is a very big thing that was added back to the Cold open. We kind of talked about it in our breakdown, you know, in The Job Part 2 When Jim is being interviewed by David Wallace. And there's a little flashback to the Beach Games episode and Jim tells Pam why he left Scranton to go to Stanford. Yes. Well, when we first discussed this episode, we talked about that flashback scene at the beach for Jim and Pam and we said that it was originally going to be the Cold open for this episode. Well, we got it a little wrong, lady.

[Angela Kinsey]

It can happen. So give me the scoop.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, the scene during Jim's interview was always meant to be there. There was a different part of that scene on the beach between Jim and Pam that would have been the cold open. And I didn't realize that when we first broke down the episode. They have put that cold open back into the Superfan episode. It totally kicks off Pam's like, new direct way of communicating. You have to hear it.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Hey, I'm really sorry that I didn't come to your art show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. Is that all you heard?

[Angela Kinsey]

Cause I said some other stuff. Really?

[Paul Lieberstein]

I don't.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know what's interesting? I don't feel embarrassed at all. I just feel good. Good. If you don't have anything to say, you don't have to say anything or I take that back. You have to say something.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey, you guys, I'm doing it. I'm walking on boiling steam.

[Jenna Fischer]

How can you even think about leaving that?

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey, can anybody see this? I mean, does he just sit there silent the whole time?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

I really liked how she was like, is that all you're going to respond to? Because I said some other stuff.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. She does not let him off the hook.

[Angela Kinsey]

Go, Pam.

[Jenna Fischer]

So I traded messages with Dave Rogers about these flashbacks and he said that this is one of his single favorite moments of the show because it's one of those rare things where even the way it was in the original broadcast really illuminated the creative freedom that the documentary filmmakers have when they are deciding what they want to show and when.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sure. I mean, they can tell a completely different version of a moment through editing. And that's true even when you watch reality TV today.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. He said that they talked a lot about this in the edit that they decided to use, like, the portion of this flashback footage that they decided to use in the Job Part two. They really tried to put themselves in the mindset of the documentary crew. Originally, they settled on just having the one little clip. Also, in the episode, when Pam has her talking head at the top of this episode, you see just sort of like a flashback to this conversation with no audio. And Pam just says, jim was nice, told me that he missed our friendship too. And then they kind of hug and walk off. And then Dave said again when they had this bigger chunk of the scene, they had to discuss again, like, where would the documentary crew put this? Where would it make the most sense to put this? And they decided to put it back up at the top.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just love Dave's insight on everything.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know, lady. I wrote him an email about it where I said, oh, can you tell me about these flashback scenes to beach games? And the beginning of his email was, get ready for a Dave Rogers dissertation or just give me a call.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I also wanted to share a scene that was added back to the superfan episode. I had mentioned it in our breakdown. It's the runner of Dwight interviewing Andy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

So the stuff that was included in the episode is so funny. And I mentioned that there was a lot more in the deleted scenes. We didn't play it before, and I just thought it would be so fun to hear it. So here are the extra interview questions that got added back to the superfan episode.

[Paul Lieberstein]

What is 879 times 413.7? 2401.647. Repeating inventor of the cotton gin, Eli Edison. When is the Paleolithic Age? 17 BC who's the second man on the moon? Trick question. There was no second man on the moon. Talk me through an appendectomy. Step one, disinfection. Step two, incision. Step three, remove the appendix tenderly so it doesn't burst and spread toxicity everywhere. Step four, the eectomy procedure. Step five, sutures. Sutures, yes. What is the origin of species? How far away is Venus? Define scorched earth policy. How do you please a woman? What is a scented candle? What is the Dharma Initiative? It is the source of all energy on this planet. It is a corporation formed by aliens.

[Angela Kinsey]

You just know our writers had so much fun.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, especially that little section of where you're just hearing the questions. I mean, I know that was like, on the day pitches.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know how Rainn got through that.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm sure he didn't. I'm sure there's footage of him cracking up.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, finally, Angela, we talked a lot about the Jim, Pam, Karen relationship in this episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And we got a letter from Lindsay C. Who said, if there is ever a second drink episode of the Job, I just wanted to throw out another possible point of view of Jim's reactions to Karen in this episode. I feel like Jim has never been fully 100% committed to this relationship and was often put out with Karen and maybe even looking for ways to brush her off. For example, right before Roy's attack, Karen is talking to him about how he'd rather stay home and watch a Phillies game than go out with her. Like you've both said before, we all love Jim. Of. Of course. But a lot of times throughout this relationship, it really does bring out his worst. So when Jim had the talking head explaining his haircut and Karen's snarky comment about him looking homeless, I think he was truly offended by it and holding on to a bit of a grudge. Then, when in New York, instead of giving Karen any kind of answer about moving with her or about one too many people in New York, I think it's because he is truly conflicted. He is on this trip trying to enjoy their relationship, but having to really search for the happiness that it should be providing. So then when he finds the beloved yogurt lid and Karen has just ditched him for her girlfriends, I think it was a real aha moment for him, huh? Mm.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, I can see the aha moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

I rewatched this whole episode, and there are so many glaring examples of Jim and Karen not being in sync. And I also felt like Karen was, like, a really cool woman, but not the right woman for Jim. Like, he didn't see her. She was cool. She was making jokes. They don't want to do the same things. They are just, like. They are not a match. It was so clear to me when I rewatched this episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Cause she's a catch.

[Jenna Fischer]

She's a total catch.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's not his person.

[Jenna Fischer]

No, he's not, like, charmed by her the way he should be.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, there's like, that thing, you know, where it's like, when you're really into someone the littlest thing they do you think is charming and someone else who likes you and you're not into can do the same thing. And you're like, ugh, totally. He sent me flowers. Ugh. Why? Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's driving me crazy. Like, flowers every week. But then, like, if you like them, you're like, oh, my God, he sends me flowers every week. Yep, you're right.

[Angela Kinsey]

She's just not your person.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, everyone, that's all we got. Don't forget to grab a copy of Josh and Angela's cookbook. You can make this. It comes out tomorrow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Jenna Fischer]

Also tomorrow, be sure to tune in and catch them on the Today Show.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, we are doing a bunch of fun stuff. We'll also be on the show Sherry, hosted by Sherry shepherd. And we kick off our book tour. Josh is also joining us on Wednesday on office lady 6.0. He's part of our top of show because, you know, it's the food episode. We're gonna talk all things food on the set of the Office.

[Jenna Fischer]

We sure are. And don't forget, everyone, the podcast How We Made youe Mother is premiering on the Office Ladies Network today.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. All right, now please enjoy your second drink of the Job, part one.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

[Jenna Fischer]

We were on the Office together and we're. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Each week, we will break down an episode of the Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're the Office Ladies.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hey there, everyone. It's Angela Kinzie.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's Jenna Fisher.

[Angela Kinsey]

And we are here to talk to you this week about the Job.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, it's the end of season three, Angela. This is the season three finale. I can't believe we're already at the season three finale.

[Angela Kinsey]

I can'T either. I can't either. I was saying to my husband the other day, I was like, babe, Jen and I have talked for a year now about the show, and it doesn't even feel like any time has gone by. I mean, I think we just really enjoy hanging out and talking with each other and also talking about the show.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, this is actually the Job, part one. This is an hour long episode finale. So we're dividing it into two episodes of Office Ladies so that we can really cover everything. This was written by Paul Lieberstein and Mike Schorr and directed by Ken Kwapiss.

[Angela Kinsey]

Jenna, do you know it was also co edited not only co written, but it was co edited with Dave Rogers and Dean Holland.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Because it was such a big episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

We put everyone on this.

[Angela Kinsey]

All hands on deck.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, here is a summary for part one. Before leaving for his interview, and confident he already has a new job at Corporate, Michael names Dwight as his replacement at Dunder Mifflin Scranton. Angela could not be more excited.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

But before Michael can leave, Jan pays a surprise visit. She shows Michael her new breast enhancement and says she wants to get back together. Jim and Karen leave early as they are also interviewing for the job at Corporate. Dwight makes Andy his number two. Since Andy is the only person who would interview for the position.

[Angela Kinsey]

And that's just the first half.

[Jenna Fischer]

There's more to come.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, listen, to kick off this finale episode, we have a surprise guest. We're so excited. Writer Toby himself, Paul Lieberstein.

[Angela Kinsey]

Toby is in the house. Well, you know, in the zoom house. Toby's in the zoom house.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, well, we asked him all about being Toby and all about this episode. Sam, will you play the interview? Hello, Paul Lieberstein. Welcome to Office Ladies.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Hello, Jenna Fisher.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hello.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Angela Kinsey. Thank you for having me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, thanks so much for being on.

[Paul Lieberstein]

My pleasure.

[Jenna Fischer]

We're so excited to have you today.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

[Jenna Fischer]

Good. We were texting, and I know you were texting with Angela as well, and you told us that you have not seen an episode of the show since it aired, but that you were going to watch the job today. How was that experience for you? I'm dying to know.

[Paul Lieberstein]

It was really interesting. I felt like there's moments that really, really shined and then there's like, you know, the writer part of me is like, oh, okay. I think I would have done that a little differently now, but I didn't think there was anything that was embarrassing.

[Jenna Fischer]

No. You are so hard on yourself. This is an amazing, delightful episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know you, and you're such an amazing writer. And I can see you watching things through the filter of like, oh, and you're a producer and you direct, so I imagine you're watching it through all those different. Different layers.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah, yeah. There's everything. It's like framing. It's like, okay, should we have fun or. That was repetitive. We already said that, Paul. We didn't need to do it again. But then I get really impressed with some other stuff.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we do always like to start by asking people how they came to be on the Office. You are one of our original writers and you were with us. The entire nine seasons. You were our showrunner as well for a period of time. How did it come about that you were on the show?

[Paul Lieberstein]

Well, I had worked with Greg Daniels before and known him a very long time, and we did King of the Hill together. And when they started the show, I stopped by the pilot. I had nothing to do with the pilot, but I stopped by a few days and I just kind of loved what was happening and it was. I loved the British. And so then when it got picked up, I was psyched that he asked me to come on. So this was kind of a very traditional thing that writers and actors are kind of separated on a TV show and they're kind of asked not to talk. And he at this point was questioning a lot of those rules and why was this happening and does this really make a better TV show? So we talked about roles for. It was Mindy and BJ and myself and Mike. And then there was a couple consultants, there's Lester and Larry. So the four of us each got like little roles. I guess Mike's didn't come on most didn't start that season. But so we had talked about just doing a little thing to kind of have the experience of being an actor and hopefully it would inform our writing. So here he wanted to kind of like break that down together. So I feel like. I'm not sure how toe happened, but I feel like I left the room and I came back and they said, you're going to play this part. And it was one line in Diversity Day about I say this one line and get kicked out of the room.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now, I heard Paul and you tell me if this is true. I heard that at the table read, they had you read that line and that Steve, as Michael, jumped on you so viciously and everyone erupted in laughter because you sort of almost reacted a little bit as yourself and a little bit maybe how you thought Toby might, you know, but you still didn't know who Toby was at that moment. Right. You're still discovering who is Toby.

[Paul Lieberstein]

There were early table reads where it was just for like weird contractual reasons, just the main five actors. And I was reading Kevin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, you read a few roles.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah, and I think I did well. I think I got laughs as gambler.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think that the supporting cast wasn't there because you were guest stars and you were not series regular. So in a series regular contract, you're required to do the table read. It's part of your acting deal. But I think they have to pay you more.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, to attend those.

[Jenna Fischer]

If you don't have that kind of contract.

[Paul Lieberstein]

That sounds right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I. As a guest star, they say you're invited. Right. Not required. You're invited if you would like to come. And I always do. But I think you're right, Jenna. It wasn't until after Booze Cruise that we started coming to Table Reads.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

So, Paul, you read a bunch of roles, and everyone laughed when Michael jumped on you as Toby. And I feel like that helped seal the deal.

[Paul Lieberstein]

But we also didn't expect that part to come back ever.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, that's how they got you. That's what Mike Schur said about Mose. It was just so supposed to be a silly photo, you know?

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. He started as a photo. That's what it was.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then years later, he had to walk around with that beard for like a whole year, a whole season, because Greg wouldn't let him use a fake one. And it all started because he was just gonna be in a photo.

[Paul Lieberstein]

And then the fake one looked better, I think.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And then he was furious because he had had that huge beard. And the fake one worked just as well.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Paul, how was that experience? Was Greg Wright, did you feel like you learned from the experience of being an actor?

[Paul Lieberstein]

I absolutely did, but it took a while to get there. I don't know if you remember, but we were doing this kind of room bit about, like, my acting school.

[Jenna Fischer]

I do remember your acting school bit.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Okay. So imagine going into acting knowing nothing about acting, and the first thing you're being taught is take your water bottle off your desk and put it underneath your desk. So. Because the label isn't cleared. All right. That's now the first thing I know about acting. And it was like, things like that that made up my acting school.

[Angela Kinsey]

I remember also. I remember Rain would just ride you so hard. Like, you go, hey, Kate. And she goes, hey, Paul. And you're like, dang it. Because she was supposed to be Meredith in the moment. You're in a scene. And I remember Rain would, like, tease you so hard.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah. There was very little acting I was doing. There was a breakthrough moment for me. They kept saying, talk louder. And I wouldn't, because, like, no, I'm talking to a person right here. Why would I talk louder?

[Angela Kinsey]

You just rolled out multicams for yourself, but that's okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Paul Lieberstein]

And theater. All in theater. And then so I was. We were doing a kitchen scene, and they kept telling me to speak up. And then Brian said, why don't you imagine, like, this room is artificially quiet because they turned off the refrigerator, right? Because clear sound. Why don't you imagine that the refrigerator's on and you have to talk. Oh, an actor does that. You know, it put this, like. And it wasn't just, like, one little thing. It was like, oh, an actor. And has to put all these. All those little details. It has to justify anything that needs to be done. They don't just do what feels real. They have to, like, find a way to do what they need to do and make it feel real.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love hearing that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is this something that you've brought to other projects? Paul, as a writer, showrunner, creator of shows, have you asked your writing staff to act at all?

[Paul Lieberstein]

I did. Let's see. On ghosted, I had Blitz's brother, Andy Blitz, and created a part for him.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I have to say, and Jenna and I have talked about this a lot, and we talked about this when Greg came on as well, that we loved that we got to be around the writers. We loved when we got to go up into the writers room. Sometimes we would shoot over in the warehouse, and there was that back stairwell that went up where your kitchen was with your snacks. And we would come up and hang out, and it was really fun for us to have you guys on set. And it's hard for me to imagine other shows now without that creative collaboration and that feeling of safety and trust. And we've all worked on other shows where it is not the case, and it's something that I really cherish.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah, me too. Greg was right. Breaking down that wall made us understand each other a lot better, and we all worked together.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, speaking of having to team up for this episode, the job you teamed up with Mike Schur. You guys co wrote this episode. How did that work?

[Paul Lieberstein]

I have kind of a memory of, you know, this was at the end of the season and a long season, and a lot of episodes are written different ways. So it wasn't that Mike and I went off into a room together and then came out with this show. I think that we both were running the process of writing this episode together, and we beat it all out. Some writers would come in and out, but we would be the two people always there, making sure the episode was what we wanted. And then he would go take a scene, I would take a scene, or he would take a few writers to take a scene, and I would do the same. I think that's basically how this one worked.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's funny that you mention working in groups like that. Because I remember there were times on the set where Greg would call me off set. He would say, jenna, are you in the scene? Are you in the scene? Okay, I've got three writers talking about Jim and Pam. I want you to sit in on that. Go in there, Go in there. Oh, my gosh. I would get so excited. I would be like, oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. And I mostly just listened. And sometimes I would throw out ideas when I. But that was so cool. Cause you guys would kind of divide up a script and like a group of three people would go work on Dwight's stuff, and then another three people would work on some other aspect of the story. At least from my little bit of experience in the writer's room.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Well, it was episode by episode, you know, and some came in. Some were really, like, conceived by the writer and went straight all the way through. And some were extremely collaborative. But even when a writer did it by himself, herself, there was, you know, there was tons of discussion about what was going to happen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, a big storyline in this episode is that Jan and Michael get back together. And Jan has had breast augmentation. And we're so curious about this storyline. Like, how did it come about? Did you talk to Melora about it? And working with Melora and Steve, what was that like?

[Paul Lieberstein]

I think there was a card on the wall for a long time that said, jan gets a boob job. And we were kind of looking for the right place. And then so we had to break up. She gets a boob job and it's because of that they get back together. It was something that happened during cocktails. Jan did this super long talking head on the lawn of the.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. In front of David Wallace's house.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah, in front of David Wallace's house. And in writing that, we kind of discovered how Jan was on the road to self destruction.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Like that crystallized it for us. It's like, oh, she's taking herself down. Once we got that, this was like a stage in her spiral.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, it's so brilliant. I just thought Melora and Steve, just once again, their dynamic as Jan and Michael.

[Paul Lieberstein]

To me, it was so good.

[Angela Kinsey]

So good. I could watch them all day.

[Paul Lieberstein]

My favorite part of the episode was when she came back in for the first time and he's just looking at her and Jenny. You're right there and you're looking down. He's like, why privately? Why privately?

[Jenna Fischer]

I loved how I was put right in the middle of the two of them. Yeah.

[Paul Lieberstein]

It could have been just Such a normal little dud of a scene, you know? But he walked this line of being, like, mean and trying to be polite.

[Angela Kinsey]

And shocked and freaking the F out.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Freaking out and making it all real at once.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Paul Lieberstein]

It was so funny to see him do that.

[Jenna Fischer]

I have to ask you, who is responsible for Creed thought.

[Paul Lieberstein]

I think that was a mic talking head. And then Jason Kessler did it on the blog. He did a blog of Creedthoughts on NBC.com, i guess.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he was your writer's assistant, Is that right?

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah. Yeah. And then he kind of took over the digital media stuff.

[Angela Kinsey]

I texted Creed about it this week. I was like, creed, do you remember Creed thoughts? Your whole blog? He was like, yeah, yeah, that was fun. I didn't write any of that.

[Jenna Fischer]

But that went on for a year. That blog that Jason wrote as Creed.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Okay, so this episode introduces the Schrute Bucks, which are hilarious. And who came up with that? And also, I saved one. I have a Schrute buck. You do? Yeah.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Is it frame.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, I guess I should frame it. It's probably. It's like, in a scrapbook bin that I haven't gotten to.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Well, that'll do it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is it a large one or a small one, Angela?

[Angela Kinsey]

It's the large one.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I don't know if you guys remember. I think it's a deleted scene. But Creed tries to flood. Flood the value of the dollar. Try to flood the market. So he has this deleted scene where he's photocopying like crazy, and he's looking around, make sure no one's seeing him. And then he wheels in to Dwight, like, Dwight's new office. This whole cart full of thousands of shrew bucks. And he's like, I'm gonna flood the market with these babies unless you pay up.

[Paul Lieberstein]

So.

[Angela Kinsey]

So my memory is they were everywhere on set. We had stacks of them.

[Paul Lieberstein]

I forgot about that scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, it's not. It didn't make it, but it's really funny.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah, that is funny. I think that Justin Spitzer thought up Shrewd Box.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, he's so funny.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Not 100%. Yeah, he's great. And he loved. He loved Dwight. There was a lot of Dwight stuff over the years that came out of him.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Justin did Twin absorption. We found out.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

That brings up an interesting thing to me, Paul, is that I remember over the years, there'd be different writers that would just really love a specific character. Like Mike Schur. Loved to see Angela Martin fall apart. I could always tell when it was one of his scripts. My character would spiral out. Did you have a character that you love to write for?

[Paul Lieberstein]

I love doing everybody, I think. But Creed was always fun. Kevin was. Was always, like, fun to just push to the limits. So eventually doing one where he. He didn't know the Alphabet. I remember going that far with him and just. I was laughing so hard during. While he was doing it. Michael. I still sometimes, like, I'm driving and I think of, like, a Michael talking head. I want to write. You know, it's. His voice is just so clear in my head. It was so distinct.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Paul Lieberstein]

You know, I miss that character. I was writing for him.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, Paul, do you have, like, a favorite scene or moment from this episode or anything you want to share? Like, a favorite moment? It doesn't even have to be from this episode, but if there was one.

[Paul Lieberstein]

I really laughed out loud when Hunter. And he was telling Hunter, tell. Tell her I want to squeeze them.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Paul Lieberstein]

She'll know what I mean. It's coke.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Now, I looked in the script, and the second part was not in the script.

[Paul Lieberstein]

I had a feeling. Oh, good. I'm glad you checked it out, because I was wondering. I bet he.

[Jenna Fischer]

But the first one was the teller. I want to squeeze them. She'll know what it means was in there. Yes.

[Paul Lieberstein]

And then I loved when Jan finds out she's fired, and she storms into Wallace's room. They have this kind of screaming match, and he tells her off. But I loved how strong David was. Like, he was just so collected. And I felt like, yeah, that's just really solid character to have, because so many people are just kind of scared or inhibited to say the truth on that show. Okay. So then there's this moment after she leaves where Michael's standing behind the dorm frame and says, I didn't tell her something.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like, it wasn't me. You told her.

[Paul Lieberstein]

And he can't even look. And he's. He's. The way Coif is framed. It was. He was kind of like the door frame was right coming down in the middle of his face.

[Angela Kinsey]

I loved. I loved when, you know, Jan is just, like, letting David Wallace have it, and Michael is in that same spot you're talking about. And for one moment, he's like, yeah. And then David Wallace is like, excuse me. Like, just with a look. And Michael's like, nope, nope. Okay. Okay.

[Paul Lieberstein]

I just.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we got one question from a fan, Paul, and I have to ask. This is from Sarah McGinty and Zhu Yi Wang. They want to know why didn't Karen get the job at corporate because you set up that one of the requirements for the job was sales experience of four years. But Ryan, we don't think, has worked there for four years and he's never made a sale. Why did David Wallace choose him? They want to know, did you do this so that you could get BJ off the set and into the writer's room so he could do his writing job?

[Paul Lieberstein]

No, probably the opposite. It was, I think we thought we would get a lot of fun comedy out of putting Ryan as Michael's boss. For a while he was the temp that came in. He's clearly a really good bullshitter, but it's, but incompetent, you know, and I think that's how he got it. You know, I, I, I think we say he went to management school for.

[Angela Kinsey]

A little, he got an mba, right. That, that was one of the things.

[Paul Lieberstein]

I'm not sure how he did that. Maybe at night, but I mean the reasoning in the real world, you know, I could have been he just really kind of dazzled David with the NBA and said all the right things. So I, I could see, I could see it happening. But, but the real reason was like, you know, it was, it was time for Karen to leave the show and you know what we were doing with Jim and Pam for season four and then, and then we thought it would be just a fun dynamic switch.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think it's a, we were always.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Looking for these pairings, you know, switch people up who hasn't been together in a while, you know. So we have all your pictures up. What about you and you? Have we done a scene with what if you were his boss, you know, in your own like stat, you know, status games and improv or power dynamics, you know, just switching them up and I loved it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I just loved it so much. I could really see why Ryan at corporate would just be, it's almost Shakespearean, you know, it's like Michael thinks of himself as the king and this like lowly like peasant just went right past him, you know, on the food chain. And I love that he was like, give me a coffee, you know, and then, and then now Ryan just jumps right over him and it's going to be at corporate and just the way he says goodbye to Kelly, he's like cold, he's cold hearted but you can see that there's, there's going to be some fun there.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's like, we're done.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Paul, is there anything when you look back and you think to Yourself. I wish we had done this scene because I remember there was a card on the writer's room wall for years and years and years that never got made. And it haunts me. And it said double date and it was gonna be a double date with Jim and Pam and Dwight and Angela. And I always wish we had seen that double date. And I even remember being in the writers room and hearing you guys try to justify why Jim and Pam would agree to go on a double date with Dwight and Angela.

[Angela Kinsey]

How could. Or vice versa. How, why, why would Angela ever attend?

[Jenna Fischer]

And I think dinner party was sort of that. Right. We all did go out on our kind of double, triple date there. Quadruple date. Really? With. Since Dwight brought his babysitter. Were there any cards that you remember that you had to leave on the wall? You had to leave them behind?

[Paul Lieberstein]

I'm absolutely sure there were. Double date would have been fun. Sometimes it's finding the killer joke. Like we maybe, you know, we should have just been pitching on what is the hysterical thing that's going to happen. Because then we find that and you're like, we'll do whatever it takes to just.

[Angela Kinsey]

Paul, thank you so much for coming on Office Ladies. We're just thrilled to have you.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Thanks for having me on.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, well, thanks, Paul. It was really good to see you and I hope that we can have another get together really soon.

[Paul Lieberstein]

I hope so too.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, Paul, hugs.

[Paul Lieberstein]

All right, take care, guys.

[Angela Kinsey]

Bye, Paul.

[Paul Lieberstein]

All right, bye. Bye.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, that was just too much fun. I love it when we have writers on the show and Paul is the writer, actor. He brings such a cool perspective. Right, Jenna?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, listen, we want to give Paul a shout out here. He has a really funny new project coming out, spring of 2021. It's going to be on audible and it's a show called Captain. He said it's like an old time radio show and it's a sci fi, but it's anti sci fi.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love this description.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's anti sci fi. Jenna's like, I'm on board. It has Will Forte, John Malkovich, Rainn Wilson, Adam Scott, Wyatt Cenac, Gillian Jacobs. Lots of funny folks be looking for it. Spring 2021. Captain on audible.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, he said it's like they're all out in space but there's nothing sci fi happening to them. Which I just thought was so funny. I can't wait. I can't wait. Well, listen guys, we will take a break and then when we come back we will start breaking down the job.

[Angela Kinsey]

Woo.

[Jenna Fischer]

All Right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Everyone falls here. The kids are back in school, vacations are over. It's officially the start of cozy season. Which means one of my favorite times to buy socks. You heard me? And my favorite socks are Bombas. I love them so much. First of all, I love their ankle socks. You know, I play a lot of tennis and those are great socks for tennis. But when it gets a little cooler out, I love their merino wool socks. Okay. My favorite one is the merino wool blend quarter socks. I like the quarter socks, you know. Now my daughter likes the calf socks. She likes them a little bit longer. But one of my favorite things to do you guys, is to build your own pack. On the website, they have a mix and match, four different styles and you save 10% off. So love that. You guys go get your bomba socks. You're going to love them. Maybe some slippers. You're going to be so ready for the cozy fall. Trust me on this one. You're going to love Bombas. Head over to bombas.comofficeladies and use code officeladies for 20% off your first order. That's B O M B A S.com officeladies code officeladies at checkout. We want to talk to you guys a little bit about new Eggo protein waffles. It's really good, tastes great. Plus it's going to give you 20% of your daily protein.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Eggo Protein Plus Waffles provide the same great taste of Eggo that you know and love, plus 10 grams of protein per serving. I made the new Eggo protein waffles for my kids the other day. They didn't even know that they were protein waffles. They're just the Eggo waffles that you know and love. I know they have protein.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're just yummy waffles.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, listen, I know we're talking about breakfast, but I have shared this before. I like them as an afternoon treat. And when your teenagers come home hungry, guess what's real easy to give them? A little protein waffle.

[Jenna Fischer]

They say you can fuel your morning, but you can also fuel your afternoon.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Can you head to your local grocery store to fuel your morning with Eggo protein waffles and pancakes available at retailers nationwide.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

All right, so this episode opens with Michael at corporate for his interview, which is tomorrow.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, he got the day wrong and now he's gotta cover his butt.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, he's trying to save it and he does a horrible job.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. And I wanted to point out something. While him and David Wallace are talking, I looked at reception. No plants at reception. Corporate.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Now you're. Now you're tracking the plants at corporate. Reception.

[Angela Kinsey]

What's wrong with me? But at 33 seconds, there is a really good shot of some dried brown sticks in the back. It's like sticks. Big, tall looking sticks. I mean, they're not really alive. Right? This is some kind of decor.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, clearly the receptionist at corporate is doing something right. She doesn't have to keep any plants alive. She's just got a jar with sticks. I like it. Pam could learn something.

[Angela Kinsey]

We should get into the episode. So Jim arrives to work and Jenna. Jim has a new haircut.

[Jenna Fischer]

He does. Meredith thinks it looks sexy.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. And. And Kevin thinks he could look worse. Andy immediately says, you're no longer Big Tuna. Your big haircut.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we got a lot of fan questions about this. Angela. Samantha Patino, Kayla O, Katie Nolder, Jess Kahn, Natalie Payne, and many others wrote in to ask, was Jim's haircut a writer choice or was there another reason he got the haircut? It was both.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was both. It was both.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was in the script. But it had to be in the script because John got a haircut.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, John was doing a movie with George Clooney and Renee Zellweger called Leatherheads. And it was like, it was set in a different time. And so he had shorter hair. But it worked out perfect for the story because I think it's great that Karen's like, you need a haircut. You're going to interview for corporate. And Jim did kind of have this shaggy hair, you know, So I like that Karen as the girlfriend was like, you gotta clean it up. But there were a few episodes this season. Some of you guys have asked that, as John's hair was sort of transitioning back from that haircut of the movie, that he did wear a wig.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. And we have not talked about that, which is so crazy to me. But yeah, after he got the super short haircut for the movie, he came back to the office and he had to wear a wig for a while where his hair grew out. And then finally, for this episode, I think they felt like it had grown out enough that it looked like a more modern day haircut. So they. John is. This is John's real hair, folks.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. Yes, you guys. I went to the Leatherheads premiere and I met John's family, and I could not believe it. I walked up to the group of them and John was like, hey, guys, this is my friend Angela. And they turned around and. And they were the tallest people. John is the shortest of his brothers, guys.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he's like 6:3.

[Angela Kinsey]

He's 6:3. He's the shortest. I was like, oh, my gosh. It was like, we're from two different planets. But they were so lovely. And that was so fun to be able to go support him like that.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Yeah. That was really cool. When he was shooting that movie, actually, we would get excited for each other when we would get these jobs and we'd be like, tell us all about it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know. I was like, George Clooney, come on. I know. I wanted to point out something, though, with his talking head, you know, he says that Karen suggested that he get a haircut for his interview. And Jenna, this is a major girlfriend moment. I mean, a. It shows that Jim is actually really listening to Karen, you know, changing your look, especially when you've had the same haircut or same look for years and years, that's big. A big deal. And so he took her advice and I thought, oh, wow, their relationship's really solid. Like, I was believing it. I'm like, wow, Jim's all in. And then I thought, it also shows that he. He really wants to get the job.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, in this episode, there are going to be a ton of misdirects. We do not show our hand for what the end of this is going to be at all. And coming back from beach games, it was like, what is going to be the repercussion of Pam's confession on the beach? And so to open this episode with Jim and Karen stronger than ever, Pam is like, listen, it went great. It was fine. She has that whole talking head where she's like, I know it only took me three years to summon the courage to tell Jim my feelings, but, you know, I'm glad I did it. And now it's over. We're all moving on. That's how we open this episode. We're all moving on. Jim has a haircut, he likes his girlfriend's advice.

[Angela Kinsey]

I was really, I don't even know the word, like, in awe maybe of Pam's talking head about how she was like, I have no regrets. It needed to be said. And I said it because I would have been horrified. I would have been so embarrassed like, that I have this huge, like, emotional speech in front of all of my co workers. But then you gotta show up to work the next day with everyone in the bright fluorescent light. Yeah, well, they do tease her a little bit there. There are a bunch of deleted scenes. There's a runner, and we'll see one later. But you do get made fun of a little bit, but lovingly, by everyone.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Well, next up, Michael is in his office. He calls Dwight in and he explains, it's time for me to name my successor. He hands Dwight an envelope.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. And inside there is a written note from Michael that says, dwight, congratulations. A wipe. Don't screw the pooch. This brings Dwight.

[Jenna Fischer]

This brings Dwight begins sobbing.

[Angela Kinsey]

It brings Dwight sobbing, sobbing, tears. I listened to the DVD commentary and they said in the commentary, that rain, as Dwight went on and on so long, sobbing. They just let him just sob. Ken Kwapus just let him go and let him go. And. And Ken said, it went on for so long. And Steve started saying, you know what? Just forget it. Give me the letter back. I take it back.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we had a fan catch in this scene, which is really delightful. Angela, Christina Juarez and John Sperry wrote in to say in Michael's office, when he hands Dwight the letter, you can see an outlet on the wall behind Michael. And it is upside down. What is going on here? Oh, my God, Angela. It is. It is right around 3 minutes, 11 seconds by the coat rack behind Michael. It's an upside down electrical outlet. Like the little hole part is on the top and then the two lines are underneath it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I Know what an upside down outlet would look like. But thank you for. Thank you for, like, walking us through it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, if you want to see one, go to 3 minutes and 11 seconds.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, that's a great catch. You guys know, I will go back and look for it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's something, Angela. Of course, we know that that outlet didn't really work. It was just, you know, a fake outlet cover. But it did get me wondering. So I went to the website, familyhandyman.com oh, Lord. And it says that there is actually no right way to install an outlet. You can install it, quote, upside down. You can install it sideways. It will not affect how the outlet works. It actually said, quote, it's up to you. There's no standard electrical outlet orientation, so there's really no such thing as an upside down outlet.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, that makes sense.

[Jenna Fischer]

It does make sense. I found it interesting. I feel like my. I definitely need to tell my dad about familyhandyman.com.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, your dad will love it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I also want to say before we move on that I noticed that there are also two light switches in the middle of Michael's wall underneath a giant framed picture. Now, that is odd. Why would you put your light switches there? I guess it's because when you walk in the door, he has, like, glass, so you can't. But he has to walk real far into his office to turn on the lights. I'm just saying.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, you know what? He never has to do it because Dwight gets there early and sets up his office for him. Yeah, Michael doesn't even know where those light switches are. He's never had to turn them on.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, they're right there under the picture. You know what, Angela? You spot plants. I'm going to be on the lookout for outlets.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, between the two of us, look out, world.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's right. Well, next up. Oh, this scene between Pam and Karen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. I thought Rasheeda did such an amazing job because she had to react to so many things as Karen. First of all, she's graciously, I think, trying to let Pam off the hook. She's like, you know what? It happens sometimes. We just have those moments we say things we don't mean, and then Pam is like, oh, no, I meant it. I've thought about it a long time. And Karen, the look that comes over her face, she's like, oh, that's how it is.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. And then she has her talking head where she's like, pam is kind of a bitch.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, Yeah. I would be ticked off. I would not Be happy with Pam.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, here was my thing as the character of Pam, because in watching it as an audience member, I it that it was rude. Like, Pam is not being great in.

[Angela Kinsey]

That scene, but not being great in that scene. She's also flirting with Jim in front of Karen. It's like, all bets are off with Pam now. She walked across these coals. She's feeling empowered.

[Jenna Fischer]

And when did she flirt with Jim in front of Karen?

[Angela Kinsey]

Hi, I like your haircut. I like it. Smile. Come on, Come on.

[Jenna Fischer]

Right out of the gate.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then later, when he's leaving for corporate, she's like, good luck.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh, you have such strong feelings. I didn't know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I feel like Pam is openly flirting with Jim in front of Karen in this episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. My backstory as Pam, it's one of those things where when you finally get your voice, you just say everything. You lose all of your editing for a period of time. Right. Because you have to try on this new way of being and you're gonna. You're gonna mess it up sometimes. She's. The pendulum has swung in the other direction and Pam is really living in. Oh, I'm sorry. I hold nothing back now.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I give.

[Jenna Fischer]

I give zero Fs. I say it all, and y' all are gonna have to live with it. That's the world Pam is in right now.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. She hasn't auto corrected to sort of like a happy medium. She's just swung real hard one way.

[Jenna Fischer]

She has. Well, then Karen suggests to Jim that they leave for New York tonight and they should get a hotel room and hang out in the city.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. Karen is like, let's get out of here because that behind reception is coming from a man and we need to go.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, Angie, we actually had a fan catch from this scene. Anna Owen and Ishan Vasant both wrote in to say at 4 minutes, 43 seconds, when Karen suggests leaving early, Jim says he has too much paperwork to do. And then he signs a document in pencil. Who does that? Did you notice he signs his name in pencil? That's such a good catch.

[Angela Kinsey]

I did not notice. I did not notice. But I sort of just feel like none of them do any real work all day.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hannah Settle also has a fan catch for this scene, and it involves you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, what am I doing?

[Jenna Fischer]

At 4 minutes, 33 seconds, Angela and Kevin are talking together in the background. And she wants to know what are some of the things you guys would talk about during scenes when you were in the deep background? Because I watched this scene twice. One, so that I could watch Jim sign in pencil, and then two, so that I could watch you and Brian in the background. And, lady, it's you and Brian just chatting.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, I know, I know. I actually. I actually chuckled to myself when I saw this scene because, you know, they had us standing there, so we would be in the shot. They would often do that. They would put Brian and I at a file cabinet, and Oscar could stay in his desk because he was in the line of sight. But they would have to pull Brian out and me out. So we would stand at those file cabinets back there, and you guys, we are just shooting the shiitake. We're just like, you know, just like, oh, hey, do you guys want to grab dinner? Yeah. What's up? And Oscar's job was to be our lookout. Okay. He didn't sign up for this job. We just made him do it. So he would under his breath, say, guys, camera swinging over. Camera swinging over.

[Jenna Fischer]

And then somebody could like, suddenly, like, snap back into character.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then sometimes he wouldn't catch it. And then all of a sudden, Brian and I would love it if there was one moment during the run of the show that it was on camera. He would flick me. You know, he'd like, flick my arm, like, stop talking.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's amazing.

[Angela Kinsey]

We're just, you know, we're just the idiots back there just chatting it up. And accounting.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, speaking of accounting, we have a very strange scene now where Kevin asked Jim who he thinks is hotter between Karen and Pam.

[Angela Kinsey]

I called this the Kev pervalert.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Kevin starts listing off all of what he believes to be the various attributes of Karen and Pam. And Jim, Jim is like. Eventually, he's like, you know what? I think you should take the rest of the day, try to figure this out and get back to me.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, at five minutes, 37 seconds, you see Jim kind of put his hand up to his chin, like he's considering this. Hmm. Right. Kind of thinking about this. In the DVD commentary, John said that was his Mike Schur impression. That right in that moment, he was being Mike Schur.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. That's really good.

[Angela Kinsey]

He snuck in an impression in the episode.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love that.

[Angela Kinsey]

So now Pam goes into the break room, and, you guys, there are more of these scenes where she gets teased, but this one made it in. Oscar teases her, and everyone kind of laughs about her big scene speech she made to Jim. And Stanley's like, it's the most I ever saw you speak. I mean, I thought, is that Kelly? And Kelly's like, no, that was pathetic.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like, that's.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, I would never do that. No offense. And then Meredith is like, well, you know what? Everyone was drunk. No one remembers that. And Creed goes, oh, I do. I blogged about it. And now we find out that Creed Bratton has a blog.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Ryan explains in a talking head that last year, Creed asked him how to make a blog, but Ryan just opened up a Word document and told him this was a blog. And he said that he did that in order to protect the world from Creed's thoughts.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, because he said, even for the Internet, they're pretty scary. So then you see Creed working on his blog, and of course, you guys, I had to screen grab it and see what he wrote. So the top of his blog says www.creedthoughts.gov www. Creedthoughts. And this is what the screen says. Cree thoughts. Hey. Oh, Everyone out there in cyber world. Cyber spelled with an s. It's all. It's old Creed Bratton coming at you again. So we get to see his last name, which I love.

[Jenna Fischer]

Jenna.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, so it says it's old Creed Bratton coming at you again. Here, from my perch as a quality assurance manager at Dunder Mifflin paper, just a few observations on the world around me. What do you guys think is the best kind of car? To me, you can't beat motorcycles. They're small and dangerous. I got into a car, and that's all you see. And I have to say this. I have to say this to Ryan. Fictional character Ryan. I don't think that's so scary.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm like, why.

[Angela Kinsey]

Why can't Creed blog about he. That he likes motorcycles?

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, there obviously is something that we're not seeing.

[Angela Kinsey]

I guess so.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we talked to Paul a little bit about this, and he mentioned that Jason Kessler, our writer's assistant, actually did write for a little over a year, the blog of Creed thoughts for NBC.com and by the way, if you would like to look for it, you can still find it. It is at blog.NBC.com creedthoughts I looked at it. There are so many amazing things. He has a whole story on there about how he stayed late one night at the office and he found a squirrel in Michael's safe. That's one of the stories.

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Yes. He says he's so glad that he figured out the combination of Michael's safe because it ended up saving a squirrel's life. He would like to know why Michael put a squirrel in his safe. That's one of his entries.

[Angela Kinsey]

Creed, did you really put it in there and then you forgot about it?

[Jenna Fischer]

It's possible. It's possible, but you can check it out. It's still there.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's so fun. That's so fun. I didn't know it was still active. That's so fun. Well, now Michael visits the accounting department, and he's talking about his new job and how he's already sold his condo. And. And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's. What?

[Paul Lieberstein]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

I love this scene.

[Angela Kinsey]

I remembered when we were doing the scene, at the end of the scene, we improvised all of that. And when I was watching it, I was remembering that. And then I went to the DVD commentary, and Ken Kwapas said, yeah, he was like, this scene didn't really have an ending. So I just asked the accountants if they would improvise, sort of reacting to Michael, and that's how we went out of the scene.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think this scene is such a great example of the three of you as an improvisational trio. You guys work so well off of one another. Your deliveries are spot on. And I noted it when I watched it. Angela and I went to the script, and Ken Kwapas is right. It really just ended with Michael giving the news that he's already sold his condo on ebay. That was the button. But I think this scene is brilliant because of your reaction, and I'm so glad they left it in.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, I love that it made it in. And I really loved our little accounting pod. We so clearly knew our characters and how they would react to one another at all times. And we were rarely ever on the same page. But in this moment, all three of us have similar reactions. I say, who gave you that advice? You know? And then Kevin and Oscar all chime in, and for one, the accounting department is all. All on the same page.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we had a fan catch in this that I absolutely love from Adalia L. Who said. You guys have mentioned that Phyllis was constantly looking at fences for her home.

[Angela Kinsey]

Please tell me she caught the fence.

[Jenna Fischer]

On her computer at about 7 minutes, 20 seconds. I think she's looking at fences on her computer in the background of the scene. Angela, this is amazing because you know how you were mentioning that sometimes you would check to see if you were in the background?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

At 7 minutes, 10 seconds, Phyllis looks over her shoulder to accounting, and I swear that what she's doing is sneaking a look to see where the camera is. And I think she thinks she's not on camera because right after that, she clicks on a Website to look at fences.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes, that's exactly what she was doing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was amazing, you guys. Phyllis looked at fences for, like, a year.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like. Like, for months and months trying to. And we. And we would. You know, she would want our opinion, and we'd go over and we'd look at fences with her.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

So many fences.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's great.

[Angela Kinsey]

So many fences.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, now, Angela, speaking of scenes that I just absolutely love this next one with Dwight and Angela in the kitchen, and Dwight is telling Angela about his new promotion. He is going to have Michael's job. Oh, it's so good.

[Angela Kinsey]

It's so good. It's one of these Shakespearean moments between Dwight and Angela. Very Macbeth. Right. And once again, they're not facing each other, you know, so Angela doesn't even see his face.

[Jenna Fischer]

And at the end, Angela, you say, goodbye, Kelly Kapoor.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And that was not in the script, lady.

[Angela Kinsey]

I know, I know. So. So I got to improvise a little bit right there. And my memory is that I improvised that. And when I listened to the DVD commentary, Dave Rogers said, I'm pretty sure Angela improvised that line. So I just figured she would just be consumed with her own power. And, you know, Dwight has said if he. If he takes over, she gets to be in charge of the women. So it's sort of a callback. And, you know, Kelly Kapoor has been on her list for a long time.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I think this is also a callback to Product Recall. I think that Kelly went to the top of Angela's list after she had to sit through that customer service training.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, no doubt, no doubt. She tried to kiss Dwight at a Christmas party. And then there was Diwali, and then Product Recall. So Angela's like, see you later, Kelly Kapua.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Who's next on Angela's list?

[Angela Kinsey]

The list is long, lady. The list is long.

[Jenna Fischer]

Is it Kevin, maybe? Kevin.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, for sure, for sure. And maybe she gets her way in the finale. Just saying. Okay, we're not there yet. Okay, well, in the scene, Dwight and Angela have this really fun couplet of dialogue. And Dwight says, how would you like to spend the night with a regional manager of Dunder Mifflin, Scranton? And Angela goes, no, Dwight. And I don't care if that's how they consolidated power in ancient Rome.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he's like, I mean me. Well, listen, lady, I think maybe we should take a break. And when we come back, we're gonna see what this new power does to Dwight.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, well, get ready. Get ready for his bed and breakfast. In hell.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, we'll be right back.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't know about you guys, but I get so busy around lunch, and I just want a great meal right there, ready to go. And that's why I love Blue Apron. Did you know Blue Apron has shipped more than 530 million mil kits? Wow, that's a lot. They know what they're doing, and now it's more convenient than ever. Delivering delicious and easy meals without the subscription. You know, here's the thing. Sometimes you get a subscription and you get subscription anxiety. It's like, oh, no, I'm getting these meals. Am I going to eat them all? And you know what? Who needs another subscription? There's so many. But now, meet the new Blue Apron with no subscription. So here's my list. It's dish by Blue Apron. Delicious, nutritious, ready real fast. Four cheese ravioli and red pepper sauce with romano, beans, pesto, and parmesan. Five minutes. Five minutes and it's ready. I also got harissa turkey with brown rice and kale, and I got big, cheesy panko chicken. So whether you're looking for quick weeknight dinners or a great lunch, family friendly favorites, Blue Apron gives you the tools to cook meals you love on your schedule. Try the new Blue Apron today and get 40% off your first two [e-mail] with code OFFICE40. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more.

[Jenna Fischer]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. You know, we use squarespace for our officeladies.com website. It's the all in one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. It doesn't matter if you're just starting out or maybe you're managing a growing brand. Squarespace makes it easy to create a truly beautiful website, to engage with your audience, and to sell anything from products to content to time, all in one place, all on your terms. We absolutely love it. We also love their cutting edge design. I think our page looks real pretty, guys. And since every dream needs a domain, Squarespace domains made it very easy for us to grab the name Office ladies. Head to squarespace.com officeladies for a free trial. And when you're ready to Launch, use code OfficeLadies to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

And maybe more importantly, what does it.

[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

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[Jenna Fischer]

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[Angela Kinsey]

Book by December 31, 2025.

[Jenna Fischer]

Visit smilegeneration.com officeladies for full terms and to book now.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right everyone, the holidays will be here before you know it. And Macy's is having their big fall sale. You can shop the sale and save 40 to 50% off. So get your holiday shopping done now and then you're not going to be stressed out. They have 50% off women's dresses from Calvin Klein, DKNY, Ann Klein and more. 60% off coats. And it's going to be getting cold. You want to get someone a coat, you want to get yourself a coat, now's the time to do it. 60% off cashmere sweaters and 30 to 50% off women's shoes. That's boots, heels, sneakers and more. And if you want a little razzle dazzle, they have 50 to 75% off their diamond jewelry. And don't forget about your kids because right now they're having a 40 to 60% off sale for all kids. Sweatshirts, sweatpants, dress up Abercrombie kids, get on over to Macy's, you guys. Macy's deals for fall run from October 17th through the 26th. Shop in store or@macy's.com.

[Jenna Fischer]

All right, we are back and Dwight is taunting Jim about his new position at Hotel Hell.

[Angela Kinsey]

And he's doing one of those hand, what are they called?

[Jenna Fischer]

Those hand exerciser things. What are those for? Why am I exercising my hand?

[Angela Kinsey]

So your grip gets really strong so.

[Jenna Fischer]

I can hold heavier weights while I'm lifting weights. Is that what that's for?

[Angela Kinsey]

Or maybe.

[Jenna Fischer]

What do I need a strong hand for?

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe if you wrestle, you can grab someone and hold real tight.

[Jenna Fischer]

I don't know, I don't. I've never understood why I would want my hands to be super muscularly. Muscularly muscular.

[Angela Kinsey]

I feel like, I feel like my husband has one. And I know, I know with baking, like he's kneading all kinds of dough and bread and doing stuff and I feel like, I feel like he's got real strong hands.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, wow. Do I need one of those maybe so that I can knead my dough better.

[Angela Kinsey]

Maybe then you'd have like super dough kneading strength. Anyway.

[Jenna Fischer]

Maybe I, maybe I should ask for one for Christmas.

[Angela Kinsey]

Dwight is doing this throughout this whole ridiculous. I don't even know what it is, a dream or fantasy of his, of this insane hotel hell. And then Jim just takes him to task so calmly. He's like, wait, wait, you're the manager. You don't. This is your fantasy. You don't even own it. And he's like, I co own it with Satan.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And he's like, I just want to make sure I'm clear that your wildest fantasy has you as the co owner of a bed and breakfast with Satan in hell. And. But you only make $80,000 a year. Oh yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Dwight's like, wait, wait, I haven't told you the best part. Yeah, the best part. I make $80,000 a year now, Jenna. So here's the thing. I, I saw online that fans of the Office were like, you know, if you divide 80,000 by 12, you get like 6666 0.66667 or something like that. And I was like, oh my God, do the writers do that on purpose?

[Jenna Fischer]

They must have. They had to. They must have.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, what a brilliant little layer they.

[Jenna Fischer]

Gave that then we had a lot of people write in about that. Rebecca Womack, Beth Jones and Paulina J. And Jake Moss all also noticed that $80,000 a year is $6,666.66.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's pretty cool. I mean, that's a little. I mean, I like little details like that. I think that's fun.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know, if that were my salary, I think I would be a little bit weirded out. I don't think I would want to have a salary. I wouldn't want to get checks. I mean, I guess you take out the taxes and everything. Your check wouldn't really say that. But even still, in my mind, I think it would weird me out because do you know what I had for a very long time?

[Angela Kinsey]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

What I had a credit card, and, you know, you have your little three digit secret code. My secret code was 666.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, no, no, no. I'd say, get that away. I'm not having any of that.

[Jenna Fischer]

I would be on the phone trying to buy something. Like, let's say I'm ordering a pizza. And they'd be like, what's your credit card number? And they'd be like, and the security code. And I would always be like, it's. It's 666.

[Angela Kinsey]

And what would they say?

[Jenna Fischer]

They. People would be like, what if they would laugh? It was I. And I'd always have to be like, I know, I know. And I wanted to, like, just intentionally get rid of this card. So they would issue me a new one. Now, that's not my security code anymore.

[Angela Kinsey]

But I imagine that's, like, layered because it's like, on the one hand, that's creepy. It's creepy. And then you have to say these creepy numbers. But then you also now have chitty chat when you just want to order your pizza. Now that person's hearing it for the first time, so they're like, oh, my God, that's weird. Yeah, I know. Oh, are you gonna change it? I'm gonna try. But, like, over and over for two years.

[Jenna Fischer]

Two years.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, then Dwight has a talking head. He says his first order of business will be to demote Jim, which means he will need a new number two. His first choice would be Jack Bauer.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

You know, from 24. But he's fictional and unavailable. This was a nod to Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant.

[Jenna Fischer]

How so?

[Angela Kinsey]

They loved 24. Loved 24. They were obsessed with it. They both got cameos on 24. I went, yes. And I watch them. So Ricky Gervais was in the sixth season. His scene did not make it, but you can find it online. And I guess it's on, like, the DVD box set or something. And he's having this comedic moment in the Oval Office. It's totally random because, you know, 24 is such a drama. The stakes are so high. But he's in the background with his longtime girlfriend, Jane Fallon. They got to be in the show. And then later on, Stephen Merchant makes a brief appearance. He doesn't have a speaking role, but he's a CTU worker. He wasn't credited on the episode, but he is there. He's in the background when they cut to ctu.

[Jenna Fischer]

So he made it in.

[Angela Kinsey]

He made it in. He has no lines, but he made it in. But I guess this Little reference to Jack Bauer from Dwight was a little nod to Ricky and Steven from the writers.

[Jenna Fischer]

I love that. Well, now something major happens.

[Angela Kinsey]

Two major things happen.

[Jenna Fischer]

Jan shows up at the office unannounced. And we talked about this scene a little bit with Paul where Jan and Michael are standing at reception with Pam between them. And Michael is trying so hard to have boundaries.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, I loved it when she walked in. And he goes, why are you here?

[Jenna Fischer]

And Melora is being that very, very scary, sane version of a crazy person.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh. Oh, for sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like in the horror movies. Right before they turn on you.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. No, it's that moment where you're like, hi, lovely. And then it's like, yes.

[Jenna Fischer]

Like you're wondering. Wait, I. Are they a cyborg?

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. I made you coffee, honey. With the knife.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes, yes, yes. Super creepy. She goes into his office and Michael is like, I need all my ladies Defcon in the conference room. Defcon Pam immediately. Except Meredith, who's an alternate.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, well, so now Pam has to go tell everybody, right? So she goes up to Karen and she's like, hey, Michael needs us. Jan's here. He's freaking out. And Karen is so passive aggressive in this moment. She's like, okay, listen, before we leave, would you make. Make, you know, copies of our sales reports? Would you go make some copies? Would you photocopy some stuff for me? Oh, and for my boyfriend, who am I, I'm about to go to New York with for the night. Will you make us some photocopies? That's the subtext.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm just gonna. I'm gonna take a minute and I'm gonna put you in your place, Ms. Receptionist.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, she does. That's true.

[Angela Kinsey]

And then, though, Pam. Pam, leaning hard into this new. Like, I'm gonna say stuff when I wanna say it, looks right at her and goes, I hope you get the job.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. Little Pam, sass.

[Angela Kinsey]

I want your ass out of here.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'll make your copies.

[Angela Kinsey]

I want your ass gone.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'll make you 12 copies. How about that?

[Angela Kinsey]

You can shove them where the sun don't shine.

[Jenna Fischer]

Okay. So Jan explains to Michael, she gives her plea. She says that after their breakup, she went on vacation.

[Angela Kinsey]

Another vacation.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. But she's made some big changes, and she really, really misses him and she wants to get back together. Michael runs out of the office and into the conference room.

[Angela Kinsey]

DEFCON 20.

[Jenna Fischer]

And all the women in the conference room are like, michael, no. Do not get back together with her. You have to stay strong. She doesn't make you happy. We are. We're good. We all agree. Michael's like, yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. So now he feels empowered. He's gonna go in and tell Jan, no, no, we are not getting back together.

[Jenna Fischer]

But he walks back in his office, and Jan has taken off her jacket to reveal that she has had breast augmentation surgery.

[Angela Kinsey]

She is wearing a white, very tight, little knit sweater with a plunging neckline.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yep.

[Angela Kinsey]

And she's got a bodacious set of tatas. She does that are like, hello in his eyes. He. He walks in, he's like, what? Oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Fischer]

Because he's such an adolescent, he cannot take his eyes off her chest. And she knows it. This is going to appeal to Michael.

[Angela Kinsey]

Absolutely. Absolutely. She knew what she was doing.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we had some people ask, did Melora get a breast augmentation for this episode? No. No, she didn't. They designed this crazy bra for her that was filled with, like, a gazillion little cutlets. And then they did this, like, makeup shadowing on her chest to create even more illusion of, like, swollen cleavage and all of that. And I do remember poor Melora from this point forward, would have to put that on for every episode.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now, I listened to the DVD commentary, and Ken Kwapas and Melora were part of this commentary, and they said they had a meeting to discuss her boob job storyline with Greg. So it was Ken, Melora, and Greg, and they really had a, like, earnest conversation about what size they would be. Like, how big would Jan go? And how much of a visual joke would this be? And Melora said this whole storyline was just a lot of fun, that they just. It was just a really fun thing for her character and just part of that journey that Paul was talking about of Jan really starting this spiral. And she did say that for a long time, people would come up to her and ask if those boobs were hers. Oh, I know. Poor Melora. Poor Melora.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, my gosh. Well, it works. Michael gets back together with Jan. He says it was not for the boobs. It wasn't for the boobs.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, of course not. But he's so.

[Jenna Fischer]

He said that would be shallow. And this is actually emotionally magnificent.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

So, yeah, he's gonna give this relationship another try.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. Well, Jan walks out into the bullpen. Oh, by the way, I can't believe I forgot to bring this up. In the very beginning, when she shows up, Michael goes, janet. And I was like, what? I forgot her name was Janet.

[Jenna Fischer]

It is. Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

When she enters the office and I'm sorry to take us Back a minute. He says, hello, Janet. And I'm like, janet? That's my sister's name.

[Jenna Fischer]

But is that just Michael doing Michael?

[Angela Kinsey]

No, no, I looked it up. Her character's name is Janet and her nickname is Jan. Wow. Yes.

[Paul Lieberstein]

Wow.

[Jenna Fischer]

There you go.

[Angela Kinsey]

Janet Levinson. Gould. Drop the Gould.

[Jenna Fischer]

She's not with Gould anymore.

[Angela Kinsey]

No. And so she walks into the bullpen and now everyone sees her new boobs and everyone is having their reactions. You know, Meredith is like, waste of money. I find that guys are way more interested in the back of you than the front, in her experience. And I thought Kate did such a great job with that talking head. She just throws that line away. She doesn't put too much on it.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And she did a brilliant job. And Pam, once again trying to flirt with Jim. It's like, oh, my God, they're so big. And he's like, I know. She's just trying to flirt. She's trying to flirt.

[Jenna Fischer]

She wants to be friends again. She's being friendly.

[Angela Kinsey]

She wants to be friends with benefits.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, she wants to be more than friends.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah. While everyone is reacting to the boobs, we have another pretty big storyline, which is Dwight is going to start interviewing his new number two. And the only person who signed up was Andy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Which leads to this amazing interview scene between Dwight and Andy. It's like a rapid fire Q and A session.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

And it's so great. We had a fan question from Seth, Jason Tan, and Zhu Yi Wang. How much of the dialogue between Andy and Dwight was scripted when Dwight is interviewing him for assistant to the regional manager? Well, guys, everything you see in the episode was scripted, but there was so much more in the script. Angela, is that stuff in the deleted scenes? Because it was so funny on the page.

[Angela Kinsey]

There are great deleted scenes, Jenna, from this scene. And apparently there's even more that we're not even getting to see on the DVDs. I listened to the DVD commentary and they said these guys went on and on and on. And then they went past the scripted stuff and they just started improvising. And Ken Kwapa said Rain was just throwing the craziest stuff at Ed. And Ed did not miss a beat. Like, all right, walk me through an appendectomy. And Ed, as Andy is like, all right, you sterilize the area. You make an incision. You know, he just, you know, did this whole thing. There are great deleted scenes on the dvd, but I think there's even more that we don't get to see.

[Jenna Fischer]

It was amazing. I absolutely loved it. And Dwight has no choice. This is his only choice.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Which is so great. Well, we're gonna end this. Part one of the job. With Michael finally leaving for his interview, he is holding Jan's breasts.

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, they've shut the blinds, but they've only shut them on one side of his office. They left him open on the other side. And so the camera gets this little. I used to call it a peep shot. That's not what it's called. Sneaky shot. Spy view. Sneak Spy. Spy shot.

[Jenna Fischer]

You got it. You got. You got there. Spy shot. You found it.

[Angela Kinsey]

I found it. I got there. Thanks for. Thanks for sticking with me. Michael's just cupping them. He's just holding them.

[Jenna Fischer]

He's, like, so happy just holding them in his hands. And then he has this crazy talking head where he says, two weeks ago, he was in the worst relationship of his life, and now he's in the best relationship of his life with the same woman. Isn't love a mystery, Angela? I. I mean, can you get a breast augmentation and heal from it in only two weeks? Is that enough time? I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I thought she was gone longer, too. It seemed like to me they hadn't been dating for quite some time because he had.

[Jenna Fischer]

I thought there was a bigger passage of time.

[Angela Kinsey]

I do, too. Because when he walks over to accounting, he's like, I haven't talked to Jan in ages. Right.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I know that Women's Appreciation was two episodes ago, but I thought there was more time in real life that had passed. So that bumped me. When he said two weeks, I was like, wait, what? And also, like, I just would think her boobs would still be so sore. I mean, I don't know. Should I look it up?

[Angela Kinsey]

I think this was maybe a continuity error in writing. I think he said a longer passage of time when he went to accounting.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, according to plasticsurgery.org yeah. Most surgeons agree that full recovery can take an average of six weeks or so. But that many women notice they feel fine after about only one week. So there you go.

[Angela Kinsey]

But I still think this is a continuity error because of what he said in accounting.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think so, too. Well, Michael goes to Pam and he says, pam, you gave me great advice, but Jan's was bigger.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, Jan's advice was bigger.

[Jenna Fischer]

So Michael's going to say his goodbyes. You know, he really believes that he's leaving for the very last time. He believes he's gonna go to this interview and get a job at corporate, and he and Jan are gonna live happily ever after he sold his condo.

[Angela Kinsey]

The man is leaving. In his mind.

[Jenna Fischer]

He plays exit music and he bids everybody a good night and a good luck.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yes. He plays Natalie Merchant on a tiny little tape recorder.

[Jenna Fischer]

And after he leaves, Dwight slaps his name on the door and says, who's ready to work?

[Angela Kinsey]

And guess who's smiling?

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, she's so happy.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is a big moment for them. This is a big moment.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, we will end there for this week. Next week we will keep breaking down this episode. Jim, Karen, and Michael will all arrive in New York for their interviews. Dwight fully takes over Dunder Mifflin with Pam as his secret assistant to the regional manager.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's all next week.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. It's a good one, guys. Thank you so much for listening in and thank you, Paul Lieberstein, for being our guest. We will see you next week with job number two.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's a date. Thank you for listening to Office Lady's second drink.

[Angela Kinsey]

This this episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

[Angela Kinsey]

Our executive producer is Cassie Jurkins and our audio engineer and associate producer is Molly Nugent. Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese. Dennis.

[Jenna Fischer]

Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz. Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

[Angela Kinsey]

We want to talk to you guys a little bit about new Eggo protein waffles. It's really good, tastes great. Plus it's going to give you 20% of your daily protein.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes. Eggo Protein Plus Waffles provide the same great taste of ago that you know and love, plus 10 grams of protein per serving. I made the new Eggo protein waffles for my kids the other day. They didn't even know that they were protein waffles. They're just the Eggo waffles that you know and love. I know they have protein.

[Angela Kinsey]

They're just yummy waffles.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yes.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, listen, I know we're talking about breakfast, but I have shared this before. I like them as an afternoon treat. And when your teenagers come home hungry, guess what's real easy to give them? A little protein waffle.

[Jenna Fischer]

They say you can fuel your morning, but you can also fuel your afternoon.

[Angela Kinsey]

Sure can.

[Jenna Fischer]

Head to your local grocery store to fuel your morning with Eggo protein waffles and pancakes. Available at retailers nationwide.

[Angela Kinsey]

All right, everyone. The holidays will be here before you know it. And Macy's is having their big fall sale. You can shop the sale and save 40 to 50% off. So get your holiday shopping done now and then. You're not going to be stressed out. They have 50% off women's dresses from Calvin Klein, DKNY, Ann Klein and more. 60% off coats. And it's going to be getting cold. You want to get someone a coat, you want to get yourself a coat, now's the time to do it. 60% off cashmere sweaters and 30 to 50% off women's shoes. That's boots, heels, sneakers and more. And if you want a little razzle dazzle, they have 50 to 75% off their diamond jewelry. And don't forget about your kids because right now they're having a 40 to 60% off sale for all kids. Sweatshirts, sweatpants, dress up, Abercrombie kids. Get on over to Macy's, you guys. Macy's deals for fall run from October 17th through the 26th. Shop in store or at Macy's dot com.