Podcast Summary: "JD Vance and the Post-Liberal Right's War on America"

Offline with Jon Favreau | Crooked Media | September 4, 2025 Guest: Jerusalem Demsas, Editor of The Argument

Brief Overview

This episode of Offline with Jon Favreau explores the emerging ideology of the post-liberal right, especially as it manifests at the National Conservatism Conference—a gathering that shapes the thoughts and ambitions of influential figures such as J.D. Vance. Jon Favreau speaks with Jerusalem Demsas, who is reporting from the conference, about what “National Conservatism” means, why it’s gaining ground, its challenge to core American ideals, and how liberalism—embodied in Demsas’s new publication, The Argument—can provide compelling counter-narratives. The episode also delves into the faults of both the post-liberal right and emerging post-liberal elements of the left, as well as the importance of staying engaged, even on toxic platforms like Twitter.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is National Conservatism?

[06:12] Jerusalem Demsas:

• National Conservatism is not just old-school conservatism; it's a redefinition of American identity away from pluralistic ideals towards ancestry-based belonging.
• Central themes:
  • Anti-immigration (less about logistics, more about cultural identity)
  • Return to "Judeo-Christian" values: Reactionary stances on gender, trans rights, and family
  • Dissatisfaction with liberal foundations: A preference for exclusionary heritage over universal principles

“They’re very, very upset about immigration… but that’s different than what they’re talking about, which is very much a redefinition of what it means to be an American away from people who were, you know, coming here seeking a better life.”
— Jerusalem Demsas [06:27]

• Figures: J.D. Vance, Adrian Vermeule, Patrick Deneen

2. Founding Ideals vs. Post-Liberal Revisionism

[08:56] Jon Favreau:

• Contrasts two visions:
  1. America as striving towards inclusive founding ideals ("the North Star")
  2. The post-liberal right's open rejection of these principles—reframing belonging by ancestry and exclusion

“There’s a difference between saying, ‘these are our ideals, but we often fail to live up to them,’ and saying ‘these actually aren’t our ideals anymore.’”
— Jon Favreau [09:01]

• Demsas calls the current rift "the fundamental axis" of politics: Are we debating how to live up to ideals, or whose humanity is included?

3. The Claremont Speech & Who Gets to Be American

[11:39] Jon Favreau:

• Focus on J.D. Vance’s Claremont speech, which argued that American identity is about descent, not shared values.
  • Cites Eric Schmidt’s speech: “America belongs to us and only us... If we disappear, then America too will cease to exist.” ([12:15])
• The contemporary right isn’t just failing to live up to founding principles—they are explicitly rejecting them.

4. Liberalism’s Challenge: Making Its Case

[13:33] Jerusalem Demsas:

• Critiques the dryness and insularity of liberal academic arguments
• Most people develop politics around concrete issues, not abstract ideals
• To reclaim ground, liberalism must:
  • Address economic anxieties (inflation, cost of living, housing)
  • Show practical connection between liberal values & solutions
  • Defend economic growth through immigration, emphasizing the necessity and benefits

“How do you make the case that the things that people care about are best answered under a liberal paradigm?”
— Jerusalem Demsas [14:04]

5. Immigration: Assimilation, Costs, and the Conservative Project

[19:04] Jon Favreau & 20:05 Jerusalem Demsas:

• J.D. Vance/the right weaponize the concept of gratitude and assimilation (immigrants must be "grateful," never fully accepted)
• Larger conservative project: not just border security, but potential denaturalization, ending birthright citizenship

“There’s nothing that, like, an immigrant could say or do or profess that would make people... believe that they are actually grateful to be American citizens.”
— Jerusalem Demsas [21:04]

• Demsas draws on personal experience attending a naturalization ceremony to emphasize immigrants’ pride and excitement.
• Liberals should address legitimate concerns (strains on local schools, services) while forcefully making the economic case for immigration.

6. The Dangers of Revanchist Thinking (Heritage-Based Citizenship)

[28:44] Jerusalem Demsas:

• Warnings about “it won’t affect me” complacency: exclusionary definitions of Americanness can always expand.
• Compares the U.S. to countries where citizenship status can change overnight, referencing her Eritrean heritage.

“Someone else can get in charge who dislikes you. And if we have made it possible... that’s just making everyone unsafe.”
— Jerusalem Demsas [30:37]

7. National Conservatism Conference: Fault Lines and Youth Apathy

[36:10] — 36:21]

• Younger attendees at NatCon are bored by endless academic theorizing about ancestry, want present-tense vision, but risk absorbing reactionary ideas.
• Demsas: The movement may be too exclusionary and esoteric to become broadly popular with younger generations.

8. Liberalism and "The Argument" Publication

[42:42] Jerusalem Demsas:

• The Argument aims to make a “positive, combative case for liberalism” on issues of:

  • Cost of living/abundance
  • Technology and its social effects
  • Gender and the future of egalitarianism

• Seeks robust debate within liberalism, across ideological lines, to make liberal answers compelling and relevant.

“How do we forge this as the new axis in American politics and American thought? It’s having the debates people actually care about and showing liberalism can answer their questions.”
— Jerusalem Demsas [44:21]

9. Post-Liberal Left: Emerging Problems

[48:36] Jerusalem Demsas:

• Critiques the post-liberal left for:
  • Negative-sum thinking (if immigrants/businesses win, others lose)
  • Embracing tariffs, protectionism, anti-immigrant thinking
  • Weakening commitment to free speech and open debate

“A bunch of different people making a bunch of different arguments... but I do think there’s a strain of ideas... that I would categorize as part of this broader post-liberal left thinking that I think is really, really dangerous.”
— Jerusalem Demsas [48:50]

10. Digital Debate: Why Stay on Twitter?

[54:11] — [59:18]

• Despite Twitter’s toxicity under Elon Musk, Demsas argues for staying, reaching persuadable publics, and not retreating into ideological enclaves.

“If we segregate ourselves into areas where no one will say anything offensive... you’re basically saying your political activism is going to be confined to Brooklyn, Los Angeles…that, to me, is like abandoning most of the country to only see the views of people you think are bad.”
— Jerusalem Demsas [55:44]

• Favreau concurs: “If you want power to persuade, you have to share those places.” [57:48]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the right redefining who belongs in America:
  • “This is very, very reactionary against any of that [inclusive] strain. And to be honest, it just feels like very like old world style stuff that's not very common in America.” — Jerusalem Demsas [07:53]
• On the two axes of politics today:
  • “Are we having like this even more fundamental debate about who gets to be an American? How do we decide that?” — Jerusalem Demsas [10:33]
• On the post-liberal left buying into scarcity/filtering frameworks:
  • “They also I think like are very pro tariff... Part of the problem is just a negative sum view of the world. Like people who think that if someone is gaining, that means someone else is losing.” — Jerusalem Demsas [48:44]
• On staying exposed to opposing views:
  • “Many of us have changed our minds at some points because we saw something that pushed us one way or the other. That’s my case.” — Jerusalem Demsas [57:16]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [06:12] – Jerusalem explains the core of National Conservatism
• [09:00] – Jon outlines two visions of American identity
• [11:39] – Discussion of J.D. Vance’s Claremont speech
• [13:33] – The challenge for liberals: making ideals relevant
• [19:04] – Assimilation debates and the demand for immigrant “gratitude”
• [28:44] – Dangers of heritage-based citizenship; historical parallels
• [36:21] – Youth indifference/enervation at NatCon conferences
• [42:42] – The Argument: pitching liberalism in an age of reaction
• [48:36] – Critiques of the post-liberal left
• [54:11] – The case for staying on Twitter, exposure to hostile environments

Conclusion & Takeaways

The episode paints National Conservatism and the ascendant post-liberal right as a serious ideological threat—not merely partisan opponents, but proponents of a worldview antithetical to pluralism and democratic progress. Jerusalem Demsas calls for liberals to meet people where they are, address material concerns, and robustly defend open, pluralist ideals against both right- and left-wing illiberalism. This includes not retreating into digital echo chambers, but continuing to argue in messy, contested public spaces.

For more, visit theargumentmag.com and follow Jerusalem Demsas on Twitter.

End of summary.