Podcast Summary: Offline with Jon Favreau

Episode Title: The Movement to Protect Kids from Big Tech
Date: December 13, 2025
Host: Jon Favreau (with Jacob Goldstein)
Guest: Julie Shelfo (Founder, Mothers Against Media Addiction)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jon Favreau and guest co-host Jacob Goldstein interview Julie Shelfo, the founder of Mothers Against Media Addiction (MAMA) and a former New York Times reporter. The conversation centers on the rapidly growing movement to protect children from the harms of social media and artificial intelligence, with a particular focus on legislative activism, the scale of potential mental health impacts, and the battle against Big Tech’s influence. The discussion tackles the emotional realities of parenting in a digital world and explores what meaningful regulation could look like.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Julie Shelfo’s Journey: From Journalist to Activist

[05:24 - 07:54]

• Julie Shelfo described her transition from reporting on the youth mental health crisis to founding MAMA.

  • Reporting revealed rising suicide rates among teens and tweens (kids as young as 9-10).
  • The revelations from whistleblowers in Big Tech (e.g., Meta) about knowingly amplifying harm pushed her towards advocacy.

• Quote:

  "I have no problem with companies making profit. I have no problem with innovation. But to do it on the backs of kids is just gross."
  — Julie Shelfo [06:31]

• The move from journalism, with its focus on objectivity, to activism required her to share her personal story and connect more emotionally, driven by an urgent need for change.

2. Parenting in the Age of Screens

[07:54 - 13:54]

• Shelfo reflected on raising her three sons while screens proliferated:

  • She described the normalization of constant sharing (“we trained them that it’s totally normal to share everything about your day”), and the inescapability of platforms like TikTok even when parents hold out.
  • Observations included children losing basic social skills when exposed to excessive screen time.
  • She cautioned that what might seem a "little awkward" at a young age can quickly become a bigger problem.

• Quote:

  “There’s no parenting mistake I haven’t made three times a thousand.”
  — Julie Shelfo [09:03]

  “What I began to see is that some of their friends who had devices earlier or more often...they were looking down, they didn’t learn how to make eye contact with people...What might seem a little awkward...becomes a big problem when they’re 8 or 9 or 10.”
  — Julie Shelfo [10:16]

3. MAMA: Mission and Strategy

[13:54 - 15:36]

• The group's three-pronged mission:

  1. Parent education about how tech products work and their risks
  2. Getting phones out of schools
  3. Demanding that all tech products conform to safety standards if kids use them

• Comparison made: parents aren’t expected to inspect their child’s food for toxins—there’s a regulatory system for that; the same should apply to tech.

• Quote:

  "If there’s a doll on the shelf...and it said, you know, there’s a 1 in 10 risk your kid will become depressed...nobody would buy that for their kid. Right? But we didn’t know that’s what social media was doing."
  — Julie Shelfo [12:31]

• The group is not anti-tech, emphasizing thoughtful, safe, and limited use.

4. Why "Media Addiction"?

[15:36 - 19:32]

• The term frames the societal scope—not just individual overuse, but a structural problem with society's growing “addiction” to screens and digital media.

• Algorithms are compared to slot machines, designed for continuous partial reinforcement.

• Concern raised: kids' exposure to rapid-fire, often inappropriate content (e.g., algorithmic spirals on YouTube from innocent videos to disturbing material in minutes).

• Quote (on child exposure):

  "I have a problem with Big Tech mainlining porn to our 12-year-olds. And that’s what’s been happening."
  — Julie Shelfo [18:12]

• The culture is suffering from a diminished focus on substantive information, replaced by soundbites and spectacle.

5. Parallels With Other Social Movements: MADD, Big Tobacco

[21:36 - 25:23]

• MAMA is modeled after Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) and draws similarities to the anti-tobacco movement: both had to counteract powerful, entrenched industry interests for the sake of public health.
• The playbook: policy + cultural change, state-level action, public storytelling.
• Julie notes that the normalization of prior harmful behaviors (e.g., “smoking lounges in high schools”) is later recognized as obviously negligent.

6. The Unique Challenge of Big Tech

[25:23 - 30:29]

• The addictiveness of tech is harder to pin down compared to substances (“You can show biochemically that alcohol impairs you...with screen addiction...people have a harder time understanding the addictive quality” — Jacob Goldstein [25:24]).

• Shelfo: Parents feel powerless as the environment is unregulated; it’s not just about “good parenting,” but about product design and policy failure.

• Notable parent quote:

  "I feel like my son is addicted to cocaine that I gave him."
  — Text from a parent to Shelfo [26:39]

• Emphasized how algorithmic exposure is invisible and individualized, often isolating or traumatizing children.

7. Legislative Victories and the Policy Landscape

[32:33 - 34:27]

• MAMA’s wins:

  • Expansion to 35 chapters in 22 states
  • Helped pass New York’s Safe for Kids Act (restricts addictive algorithmic design, bans overnight notifications to minors)
  • Supported the California AI bill and Utah’s Digital Choice Act (user data rights, including deletion)
  • Successfully worked to prevent federal preemption of state AI regulation in recent legislative sessions

• On Trump's Executive Order pre-empting state AI regulation: the move faces bipartisan opposition and is widely seen as a tech industry request, not a popular one.

8. Resistance and Big Tech Tactics

[36:30 - 40:33]

• Most people, regardless of political affiliation, support action—resistance comes mainly from Big Tech’s lobbying machine.
• Tactics include leveraging small business fears, LGBTQ+ concerns, and invoking free speech arguments.
• "Money is an issue," with legislators swayed by tech investments/promises; free speech is invoked disingenuously to block safety reforms.
• Example: bipartisan Kids Online Safety Act died due to House leadership in a state receiving major tech investment.

9. Free Speech, Content Moderation & Surveillance Fears

[41:56 - 45:25]

• Shelfo argues for seeing social media as mass media/publishing, subject historically to regulation (e.g., radio, TV ownership limits).
• She differentiates between speech and mass-published, advertiser-supported content, invoking the responsibility journalism takes to avoid harm.
• Privacy + data collection concerns are real—but tech companies already collect vast amounts; the real issue is lack of regulation akin to Europe's GDPR.

10. Global Models: Australia’s Social Media Ban for Under-16s

[47:25 - 48:27]

• Shelfo supports Australia's move to ban social media for under-16s; wishes the US had similar political will.
• Anticipates that safety/best design regulations are more likely in the US in the short term.

11. What’s Politically Possible

[48:27 - 49:38]

• Kids Online Safety Act (KOSA) has the rare distinction of broad bipartisan support (passed Senate 99-1).
• The biggest barrier is Big Tech’s ability to shape the narrative around “innovation” and national competitiveness.

12. The AI Wave: New Frontiers of Harm

[49:38 - 56:23]

• Shelfo warns of AI’s rapid adoption among kids and adults, with unclear educational guidance and rising mixed messages in schools.

• Her concerns:

  • AI undermining literacy/cognitive development: “It is the culture of literacy that gave us written laws, science, medicine...we’ve been eroding that.”
  • The temptation for children to replace frictionful, sometimes awkward, but essential real-life interactions with compliant, always-on AI is strong, but could stunt human growth.
  • Economic incentives for AI are misaligned with societal needs; the more time on product, the better for business, not necessarily for users.
  • Analogous to social media, in that attention is optimized over wellbeing.
  • Physical impacts: global increase in nearsightedness; points to Taiwan’s outdoor play law as a simple, successful intervention.

• Quote:

  "If we are not prioritizing a culture of literacy...that really scares me for the future."
  — Julie Shelfo [50:42]

13. The Way Forward: Hope and the Inflection Point

[56:23 - 56:56]

• Despite challenges, both Shelfo and the hosts express optimism: Bipartisan public support is broad and deep—a sign that large-scale reform is increasingly likely.
• Quote:

  “I do find hope...the support for these reforms is so broad and deep...and I do feel like we are at an inflection point...where the tide is turning against the big tech companies.”
  — Jacob Goldstein [56:23]

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On what’s at stake for children:

  "We have allowed these big tech companies to operate their properties in a real lawless way...it’s really appalling that Congress has not kept our laws up to date."
  — Julie Shelfo [19:04]

• On the normalization of exposure to trauma:

  "My oldest son learned about the death by suicide of a friend’s sister over Instagram...and said, Mom, that’s just normal. And it kind of took my breath away."
  — Julie Shelfo [29:36]

• On the argument for regulation:

  "When you put something out in the world and you put something out at scale, you have responsibility and accountability...historically, journalism spends a lot of money making sure what they do is careful.”
  — Julie Shelfo [42:01]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Julie’s transition to activism: [05:24–07:54]
• Parenting anecdotes on kids and tech: [07:54–13:54]
• Mission/goals of Mothers Against Media Addiction: [13:54–15:36]
• Media addiction vs. “too much screen time”: [15:36–19:32]
• Lessons from MADD/Big Tobacco: [21:36–25:23]
• Unique psychological & regulatory challenges of Big Tech: [25:23–30:29]
• Major legislative wins and hurdles: [32:33–34:27]
• Big Tech’s lobbying/arguments against regulation: [36:30–40:33]
• Free speech and privacy in the content moderation debate: [41:56–45:25]
• Australia’s social media ban and US prospects: [47:25–48:27]
• Most likely reforms (federal/state level): [48:27–49:38]
• Artificial intelligence fears for youth: [49:38–56:23]
• Closing: optimism and next steps: [56:23–56:56]

Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, urgent, and empathetic—a blend of personal reflection, data-driven argumentation, and policy-savvy commentary. Both hosts and guest are forthright in their criticism of Big Tech, deeply concerned about the wellbeing of children, and optimistic about the possibility for bipartisan solutions.

Summary for the Uninitiated

This episode gives a comprehensive look at how parents and advocacy groups are mobilizing nationally to lobby for protection of children against the documented and potential harms of unregulated social media and AI. It connects grassroots organizing to larger historical efforts (like MADD and the anti-tobacco movement), dissects the difference between individual and societal responsibility, and lays out both the urgency and the practical roadblocks facing legislative reform. The conversation is especially valuable for those seeking to understand the emotional complexity parents face, why “media addiction” is seen as a structural rather than merely personal problem, and how the activism landscape is evolving in response to new tech frontiers.