Remember Trump’s first term when we talked about “kakistocracy”: rule by the worst of the worst? They’re back and they’re worse than ever – not just Trump and his entourage but his corrupt Mini-Mes around the world. Why is our time so cursed with venal, cruel, nihilistic and apparently mentally damaged leaders? Where do these personalities come from? Are Trump and his entourage true psychopaths in the psychological sense? Ian Hughes, author of Disordered Minds : How Dangerous Personalities Are Destroying Democracy, joins Zoë Grünewald and Jonn Elledge to discuss our age of “malignant normality”, Hitler, Mao, and the psychopathology of cruel rule. As one African proverb says: “The child who does not feel love will burn down the village to feel its warmth.”

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ESCAPE ROUTES

• Jonn recommends Star Trek: Starfleet Academy streaming on Paramount+.

• Ian Hughes has been rewatching Carl Sagan’s classic space documentary Cosmos on YouTube.

• Zoë recommends Industry on the BBC iPlayer.

www.patreon.com/ohgodwhatnow

Presented by Zöe Grünewald with Jonn Elledge. Audio and video production by Chris Jones. Art direction: James Parrett. Theme tune by Cornershop. Managing Editor: Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor: Andrew Harrison. OH GOD, WHAT NOW? is a Podmasters production.

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