← Oil and Gas Upstream
Oil and Gas Upstream
Permitting reform with Chris Treanor, PAGE recorded in person at CERAWeek by S&P Global | Ep 337
00:24:40
Loading summary
Transcript92 lines
- [00:04]
A
Oil and gas production is the union of natural systems with advanced science and complex engineering. Smart people across the globe create this remarkable place we call Upstream. And each day brings a new challenge. This is the Oil and Gas Upstream podcast where we look at how these systems come together and learn from the people who make it happen.
- [00:30]
B
Welcome to Oil and Gas Upstream. I'm Elena Milkert, your host. Some of you know me as the former Director for Oil and Gas Upstream research at the U.S. department of Energy. Well, I retired from the DOE, founded Energia Consulting, and joined the Oil and Gas Global Network as a podcast host. We're recording in person at Sarah Week 2026, and it's just a very exciting time here. And it's only day two, right? I mean, this is really fabulous, especially right now with everything that's going on. What are we? March 23, 2026. My sponsor, I want to shout out to our sponsor, IFS maximize efficiency, reduce costs, and enhance asset reliability with IFS software designed to support the unique needs of the oil and gas industry. And now I'd like to introduce our guest. Today we have Chris Traynor, executive director with the Partnership to Address Global Emissions. Paige and I see you've got a Page pin on there right now.
- [01:28]
C
That's right.
- [01:29]
B
Thank you. Thank you for joining us, Chris.
- [01:31]
C
Oh, thanks, Lana. So happy to be.
- [01:33]
B
Yes, yes. So tell us a little bit about your background and why you're here and why you're with the Partnership to Address Global Emissions.
- [01:41]
C
Sure, sure. I'm very happy to be here at CIRA Week. Every year is interesting with a new theme that emerges. And certainly like in years past, we couldn't possibly have guessed what current events would be surrounding us this year. But needless to say, we continue to be focused on driving emissions reductions at Page and making sure that we provide energy security around the world. The Partnership to Address Global Emission, of which I'm the executive director, was founded by Toby Rice of EQT and Alan Armstrong of the Williams Companies. We're very excited that Alan will now be the most recent Senator from Oklahoma. We're very confident that we'll have at least one Senator D.C. that is dedicated to permitting reform and making sure that we're moving forward. On that Page is an organization that was founded really in recognition of the role that natural gas can play in reducing emissions and providing energy security around the world. I worked for the House Energy and Commerce Committee under Chairman John Dingell, the longest serving member in history. And when I started working for him in the early 2000s, we were very excited about the prospects of the role that natural gas could play in replacing coal in lowering US emissions. Over the last 15 years, it's by far been the leading technology to shift emissions downward. And that's simply coal with natural gas. And then opportunity exists around the world just as it has existed here in the United States. And we have the ability to export our LNG and natural gas here, much of which is low methane intensity. The members of Page, EQT and Williams in particular are really at the forefront of the industry when it comes to reducing methane emissions. And we have the opportunity to take us LNG and replace coal all around the world in China or sorry, methane emissions continue to be one of the leading causes of short term climate change. And Chinese coal, methane is the largest single source of that. So if the US LNG industry can contribute to replacing coal around the world, we can have an incredible impact on reducing emissions and fighting climate change.
- [03:52]
B
Absolutely. So I was at the Department of Energy for a very long time as we've talked about before. And I remember when natural gas was just coming in its own. I was the first natural gas program manager for the Office of Fossil Energy at that time. And it was just a challenge because coal was so important.
- [04:16]
C
Right.
- [04:17]
B
And clean coal technologies and all of the above. And so we've come a long, long way to now LNG being natural gas. I was saying earlier, I was just joking, but maybe it's real. We spell natural gas LNG right around the world. So. So that's really exciting. How did you get up to the hill Y then into Paige? How did that happen?
- [04:37]
C
Well, I'm born and raised in the swamp I'm from born and raised in Washington D.C. i have no history of politics in my family at all.
- [04:44]
B
Except that you lived in most powerful
- [04:47]
C
city in the world except local news, national news. I think living in D.C. and having friends from all parts of the political spectrum, all parts of the world certainly enabled me to appreciate the need for a louder middle of the political spectrum. And we hear, we hear loudly the extremes on both sides of the party. And there's just. The vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle and there's no better example of that issue than permitting reform. When it comes to energy and what we're fighting for now, there's nearly universal support for permitting reform certainly within the industry. We hosted just last night, our organization hosted a reception with the American Clean Power Association. And there's no daylight between renewable energy and traditional hydrocarbon energy when it comes to permitting reform. If we want to get. We want to get the electrons and the molecules to the places they're needed, then we need permitting reform to do so cost effective.
- [05:46]
B
We have listeners all over the world, 156 countries, so maybe everyone's not as sophisticated in their understanding about permitting and preserving reform. Just give us a little primer.
- [05:56]
C
Yeah, you bet. In the United States, we have this balance between wanting to rapidly develop and build projects, and of course, wanting to make sure that public goods and public welfare is maintained. And so every project we develop is a balance between economic development and free enterprise activities and having to make sure that we're being good stewards of the earth, good stewards of public health to one another. And permitting reform is really just about striking the right balance between those two. Hopefully not competing, but sometimes competing interests. And right now we have a permitting reform situation where the balance is out of whack. Where we have. It's too easy to oppose a project and kill it. As I explain in Washington, you don't actually have to win a court battle or win a regulatory decision to kill a project. All you have to do is drag it out, make it take longer and make it more expensive, and you kill it. And we don't have examples at this moment of how long it takes to build an interstate pipeline or a transmission project because the investors won't even get started doing it because the expectation.
- [07:09]
B
What was the last example we had?
- [07:11]
C
Well, MVP pipeline. It took an act of Congress to get it done. I'm forgetting the name of the transmission line in Arizona. But during the Biden administration, we threw a party in Arizona because we got a transmission line done in 10 years. It's a hard thing to celebrate, but at least we got it across the finish line eventually. So this is not a technology versus technology or fuel versus fuel. We need it all. Everywhere there's renewables deployed, you have to have natural gas to back it up. Everywhere that there's renewables are cheaper, it makes sense to go with the cheaper technology. And there are many places where gas is cheaper. So I don't see any conflict between the renewable energy space and traditional natural gas or nuclear space. We really need all of it.
- [07:56]
B
We need all of it. That is the new. We're not talking about energy transition anymore. We're talking about energy addition.
- [08:02]
C
Oh, sure, absolutely.
- [08:03]
B
And that's very real.
- [08:05]
C
And we probably should have always been talking about.
- [08:06]
B
We probably should have always been, but we were never as sensitive to energy poverty as we have been most recently, mostly because of. Well, I. I guess.
- [08:16]
C
Yeah.
- [08:17]
B
And Data centers and whatever. But there's still people who don't know how to read.
- [08:22]
C
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [08:23]
B
And never will if they don't have secure, stable, affordable supplies of energy.
- [08:27]
C
One of our founding members, Toby Rice, the CEO of eqt, is really obsessed with this aspect of being able to really improve human lives. And of course we have to give a shout out to Secretary of Energy Chris Wright and his dedication to the issue as well. But it's really, when you look down into it at how much of the world is using a tiny, tiny bit of electricity and burning wood inside homes or other biomass that causes asthma or pollutants, this isn't even a climate change issue. This is a real health crisis. Absolutely. From indoor air pollution. And so there's really just.
- [09:03]
B
That affect women and children the most.
- [09:06]
C
Yeah. And the ones with the least access to health care. The least access to. So anyway, this is an area where it doesn't just affect the U.S. we need to make it easier to get clean energy to all parts of the globe. That includes natural gas, of course, propane, and all these ways that all these technologies that can be scaled at small scales, distributed energy. We need all of it in order to.
- [09:29]
B
And we as upstream produce the gas. Yeah, but if you can't take it to market, then that's the end of that story. So what do you do? What are the challenges? Can you be more detailed and give people a real sense?
- [09:41]
C
Sure. You identified a problem there which is getting the molecules, EQT again to come back to them. They have the lowest methane intensity of any company probably in the world. Maybe that's not owned by Norway. And they really have invested tens of millions of dollars in order to do that. They have this pneumatic device replacement approach that has reduced their emissions at $6 a ton, which is an incredible achievement and very cost effective for equity. Not every small producer can afford to that upfront capital expenditure, but equity could do it. And it's because the markets around the world, especially Europe, they really want to know that they have low methane intensity natural gas coming into their markets. And so that's the real reason to do it. But we also have to tell the Europeans at the same time when they say, wonderful, we want that Appalachian natural gas say, you can have all of it. We just need to build pipelines to get it to.
- [10:39]
B
That's right.
- [10:39]
C
And so without energy infrastructure built out, you can't get the molecules that this person wants from there to here, even if they're willing to pay a premium for it. And obviously the Economic benefits that accrue to the United States of having markets around the world desperate for our gas is incredibly valuable. But it's only something. We can only realize those benefits if we build the infrastructure to deliver it.
- [11:02]
B
And if you don't have the molecules, you don't have the electrons.
- [11:05]
C
That's right. And no doubt about that. No doubt about that. Yeah. And certainly not the industrial process. You just can't get to that temperature. Right. You simply. Without natural gas and in some places coal, you simply can't get to the temperatures that are needed for industrial processes. There are lessons to be learned from Europe's deindustrialization. There are lessons to be learned from our re industrialization that the United States is trying to go through now. Definitely lots of lessons to be learned from those about. And it all comes back to balance.
- [11:34]
B
Is it fair to ask you what are some of the mechanics of the challenge and what you do to overcome the challenges?
- [11:40]
C
Yeah, the first one I pointed to, which is strange bedfellows, bringing together everybody that agrees that has different constituencies than we do. Unfortunately, there's this tribalism in Washington right now that is really difficult to overcome. But we have to overcome it. The only solutions to permitting reform come with a 60 vote Senate threshold. We have these congressional parliamentary rules that we have to comply with and they are what they are. And one of them is that we have to be bipartisan and have both Democrats and Republicans voting for a solution. And now is obviously a difficult time to bring groups together. The good news is everybody gets it on an individual basis. Every single policymaker we talk to says I get it and I agree with you. And so we just have to overcome this political stasis that we're experiencing in D.C. right now. Because previously I think it, it's fair to say that Democrats viewed permitting reform as benefiting only pipelines. And that is undoubtedly not the case anymore. Every lesson that was learned blocking a pipeline can be used to block a solar farm project or a transmission line.
- [12:53]
B
That's right.
- [12:54]
C
There is nothing unique about a pipeline or a transmission line that makes the playbook not apply. It applies equally across the board to whatever your favorite technology is. They are also in trouble when it comes to permitting. And so I think that's one of the reasons why this is the moment is because Democrats appreciate that the transmission is essential to get clean energy to market and they care deeply about that. Republicans have pretty much always cared about getting more pipelines built for interstate in order to move molecules around. And so we have a coalescing coming together in Washington, and we just need to make sure that each side can get along well enough to agree that the answer is yes.
- [13:35]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So usually we talk about technology on our podcast, and this is the first time we're getting into the larger context of the work that we do. We can pull it out of the ground, but if we can't take it anywhere, then we can't produce it. I mean, that's the end of the story. It just stops right there. So it seems to me there's a role for those of us in subsurface to help this situation. Is there. How do we characterize that? I know that a lot of people don't understand energy and don't understand what it takes to turn on the lights and things like that. And so is there some element of energy education or lifestyle education or. I don't know, it doesn't come from the wall.
- [14:15]
C
Absolutely. You flip the switch and the lights come on. That is really, actually truly an issue we have. Energy reliability is not appreciated. It doesn't. When we poll energy reliability, people don't poll it because when you flip the switch, the lights come on. And it's come on their entire life and it's never not come on. So why shouldn't they take it for granted? I hope that they can take it for granted forever, but unfortunately, I think we're getting to a point where we see the price of turning on the light is really what's motivating people right now. And so the affordability issue has changed the dynamics. And really, to the extent you ask the question what can be done, the answer is pick up the phone and call your member of Congress and tell them that this matters to you. And that really is what can be done. That's what we're doing in Washington, and we have a coalition of multiple members. But we're trying to tell folks here at Sierra Week, send your CEO, send your workers, send your union reps to DC and make sure that they know that permitting reform is a priority. Because even if we have universal support for the theoretical permitting reform, we have a lot of competing priorities in D.C. we're fighting a war. We're working on AI infrastructure. We've got all sorts of policies, and we need to make sure that the members of Congress identify ferment and reform as a priority this year and meet right away.
- [15:35]
B
But I think people are not going to pick up the phone. My neighbors don't necessarily understand what I do or agree with what I do. And so there's that piece of It I have very straightforward, simple conversations about any topic that kind of comes up and I just kind of give it a larger context and try to just educate about what is it we are talking about, what it is we're talking about. Because as long as people don't understand, they're not going to pick up the phone.
- [16:05]
C
That's right.
- [16:06]
B
And then people like you and me are fighting sort of this situation when really, if people understood that, they would say, well, what do you mean? This is how I get. That's a vulnerable situation for me to not be able to flip on the lights and have nothing come, and then where would I be?
- [16:23]
C
Or pay 40% more.
- [16:24]
B
That's right. That's right. I think there is a very real educational element to all of this for regular people.
- [16:32]
C
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [16:33]
B
Although a lot of people don't want to engage in the national, or I want to say national conversations about energy and energy policy and whatever. And there are some. Have some misunderstandings and some myths about certain types of energy. But as we talked about, you need all of it and we're going to need more of it. I think the data center story, the AI and the data center story is starting to resonate with people who are not in the energy industry because it is coming to their homes, their towns. I live in an area of the country where some of the largest data centers in the country are located there. And so there are lots of demands for energy. And of course, I come from a state, California, that has done a everything. No one has been more committed to cleaning the air and taking control of energy policy within the state. But it's come at a cost. They have the cleanest air, but the expensive gasoline. And that's a challenge. And I think if people were more engaged in the dialogue and what it's about. Yeah, you're saying yes, and I'm talking and talking.
- [17:42]
C
I think people take it for granted to what the policymakers know. The policymakers are not different than your neighbor. They're informed by their neighbors around them. I would venture a guess that most people in Rhode island that vote do not know 87% of their electricity comes from natural gas. It's the smallest state. They talk about offshore winds. Their members of Congress are dedicated to fighting climate change at nearly all costs. And 87% of their electricity continues to come from natural gas.
- [18:12]
B
That's right. Which is a hydrocarbon.
- [18:14]
C
Which is a hydrocarbon. But it's just a fundamental misunderstanding of not appreciating that. Like, if you care about affordability in Rhode Island Then you better get a hold of more natural gas, because that's how you're going to be bringing it down, because that's how it's built. But at the same time, if they want natural gas, they have to convince Massachusetts and New York to allow those pipelines to be built so that they can get them as well. And this is the full faith and credit. This is federalism in America. The states have to work together with the federal government in order to allow free commerce to flourish. And so really, we need to not have the states blocking infrastructure that would benefit another state. I mean, Maine, they can't get any natural gas. They refer to as an energy desert. Right. They're relying on hydro from the north and natural gas from the south, and they can't get either of them.
- [19:05]
B
So what do they do?
- [19:07]
C
They do get some hydro and they fuel oil when it gets cold for
- [19:11]
B
heating or they just have to do what they can.
- [19:15]
C
Yeah, they do what they can. Yeah, they get some of the natural gas that's brought in via LNG from Trinidad and Tobago into Boston will flow.
- [19:22]
B
But we're importing natural gas for the Northeast.
- [19:26]
C
Yes, the Northeast. Boston's natural gases right there. Yeah. When they were during Winter Storm Fern, when it was $7 in Pittsburgh, it was $140 in Boston, because there's no connection.
- [19:39]
B
$7 sounded like a big number to me, too.
- [19:41]
C
Yeah. I mean, the worst storm we've seen on the east coast in decades, but yeah.
- [19:47]
B
Oh, my God. Is that any way to treat your neighbor right?
- [19:49]
C
Exactly. It's certainly not sustainable in a democracy to ask people to pay those rates.
- [19:55]
B
I think I agree with you that the people don't realize what is happening right around them. And I think if the neighbors realize that, too, they wouldn't want to wish that bad on their neighbors either. There needs to be a national dialogue. If people aren't talking, we just have this conversation in Washington.
- [20:13]
C
We do. Yeah.
- [20:14]
B
And then our representatives talk about, well, I do what my people want to do, but if my people aren't telling me what to do then.
- [20:20]
C
Or if they don't know.
- [20:21]
B
If they don't know that. Oh, my God. Okay. So that is what industry people can do.
- [20:27]
C
Yeah, absolutely. And I think industry people can also be honest about the politics that are happening right now, too, and recognize that even if we're the cool kids today, we may not be the cool kids next year or two years or three and a half years from now. When you get a.
- [20:44]
B
Choosing your numbers carefully.
- [20:45]
C
I'm just saying I don't think we should be messing with offshore wind any more than we should be messing with iPhones. If it makes business sense and the market signal is there and the permit should be awarded because of the environmental attributes, then we shouldn't let politics mess with it from that point on.
- [21:02]
B
And that is freedom.
- [21:03]
C
Yeah, that's freedom. And that's where I think our industry can play a constructive role in being honest with our constituents and those that support our industry and saying like, we get it. Thank you for your undying support for us. But we really need you to make sure that we're protected in the long term by the system and not just by politicians.
- [21:24]
B
That's right. We have a responsibility. It's our country. We have to do this.
- [21:29]
C
That's right.
- [21:30]
B
Just going to do a quick time check for you because I know you have to. To go. Well, we are almost out of time. Were there some things else you wanted to share? Were things you want to reinforce?
- [21:39]
C
You hit the nail on the head when you the call to action to get folks involved in permitting reform. I think, as I said, there's just an unlimited amount of things for folks to pay attention to in Washington right now and they respond to the voters and to their constituents when they reach out and they tell them that they care about something. So I would encourage everybody to reach out. Tell your member of Congress that you care about permitting reform, you care about affordability, and you want to make sure that we have access to all the energy we need in order to continue to grow our economy and bring down our bills.
- [22:10]
B
Right. And it never occurred to me the infrastructure for one kind of energy is still infrastructure.
- [22:15]
C
Oh sure.
- [22:15]
B
And whatever the challenge is for one is going to be the challenge for all. Yeah, we really are there. We're there.
- [22:22]
C
And it's such an interconnected system too. Anywhere we have solar projects building up, we need a peaker plant for natural gas in order to. The intermittency is a real thing and that natural gas obviously is. That's where my bet is obviously on all of these things. But there are places where solar and wind can certainly.
- [22:39]
B
Oh absolutely.
- [22:40]
C
More market sense. And in those places they should be built.
- [22:43]
B
And that's the expansion part of it, the addition part of it. So do you have a website newsletter
- [22:49]
C
or whatever page coalition.com the partnership to address Global Emissions. You can Google us and find us and get involved. Sign up for our newsletter where we'll help folks stay educated on exactly what we're talking about. We really message these things in ways that try to resonate with Democrats because I think the industry's not done a good enough job working across the aisle with both sides. And to the extent we really, truly can buy ourselves more time in the climate crisis by replacing coal with natural gas. So why wouldn't we do that if the market signals are there, if it's cheaper to do, it's really just extra benefit that it may solve the climate crisis at the same time, but it certainly will help with the affordability crisis that our voters are feeling around the country.
- [23:33]
B
We'll put some links in the show, notes for everything that you want people to know and give them the tools to be able to help with this sort of, what do we call this, infrastructure crisis.
- [23:43]
C
That's it. Yeah. We need to get back to building.
- [23:45]
B
Yeah.
- [23:45]
C
We can't build anymore. Yeah. And we've got the unions, the laborers, the industry. Everybody's on board. We just need to make sure we get the politicians in the right place too.
- [23:53]
B
Yeah. Well, Chris Traynor, Executive Director for Partnership to Address Global Emissions. Paige, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks.
- [24:02]
C
I've been a real pleasure and a real treat to be on here with you. Thank you so much.
- [24:05]
B
Absolutely. And thank you everyone for listening. This is Elena Melkert. More next time.
- [24:10]
C
Thanks.
- [24:11]
D
Thanks for listening to oggn, the world's largest and most listened to podcast network for the oil and energy industry. If you like this show, leave us a review and then go to oggn.com to learn about all our other shows. Don't forget to sign up for our weekly newsletter. This show has been a production of the Oil and Gas Global Network.