Old School with Shilo Brooks Episode: Hunting Humans for Sport Date: March 19, 2026 Guest: Jack Carr (Bestselling novelist, TV producer, former Navy SEAL sniper)

Episode Overview

This episode of Old School delves into the enduring power of Richard Connell’s classic short story "The Most Dangerous Game." Host Shilo Brooks is joined by Jack Carr, a bestselling novelist and former Navy SEAL, to discuss how this tale of hunting humans for sport shaped Carr’s worldview, informed his fiction, and speaks to primal truths about violence, civilization, and what it means to be a man. The two explore war, the impact of reading, and the philosophical weight behind stories that pit hunter against hunted.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jack Carr's Background and Reading's Impact

Timestamps: [1:15–2:31]

• Carr describes himself as a son (his mother was a librarian), former Navy SEAL, novelist, screenwriter, TV producer, hunter, husband, and father.
• Emphasizes that reading formed the foundation for both his military career and his writing, helping with leadership, understanding enemies, and studying history.

Quote:
"Reading has really been a foundation of not just what I'm doing now, but what I did in the SEAL teams." — Jack Carr [1:55]

2. Reflections on War and Leadership

Timestamps: [2:31–8:22]

• Carr offers a veteran’s perspective on modern strategic missteps in the Middle East, stressing the need to learn from history and to read beyond social media soundbites.
• Discusses the recurring theme of "regime change" and its pitfalls, referencing historical CIA involvement and cautioning against shallow analysis driven by online algorithms.

Quote:
"I think spending more time in the pages of some books... can establish some historical context and a foundation." — Jack Carr [4:41]

3. The Meaning Behind ‘Department of War’ vs. ‘Department of Defense’

Timestamps: [8:22–10:56]

• Carr muses on the symbolic and practical implications when the U.S. changed its War Department to the Department of Defense post-1949, linking the shift to diffused accountability in military leadership.

Quote:
"Precision in language reflects precision in thought... Defense means something different than war." — Jack Carr [8:31]

4. Connell’s "The Most Dangerous Game" – Summary and Influence

Timestamps: [10:56–15:13]

• Short biography of Richard Connell; paralleled to Carr’s own career.
• The plot: Big-game hunter Rainsford becomes the prey of General Zaroff on a remote island, forced to survive a deadly three-day hunt.

Quote:
"He's seeing that waste of World War I... asking those questions the same similar ones that we're asking today... Was it worth it?" — Jack Carr [13:45]

5. The Story’s Primal Power and Its Legacy

Timestamps: [15:13–20:27]

• Carr identifies the primal, archetypal roots of the “hunter and hunted” dynamic, noting its direct impact on his own book, Savage Son, and describing how this theme recurs in works from Homer to modern thrillers.
• Reading such stories builds empathy and allows one to process and pass down lessons—unlike social media, which often has the opposite effect.

Quote:
"I think there's something timeless about this story because there's something so primal in all of our DNA." — Jack Carr [16:45]

6. Characterization & The Moral Divide Between Killing and Murder

Timestamps: [20:27–25:14]

• Discussion of Connell’s efficiency in character-building within a 9,000-word story.
• Zaroff’s twisted rationalization: equating hunting men (murder) with the necessity of war.

Notable Exchange:

• [22:32] A: "Whenever Zaroff tells Rainsford... 'What you speak of is murder.' ... Zaroff responds: 'I refuse to believe that so modern and civilized a young man as you can harbor romantic ideas about the value of human life.'”
• [24:14] B: "Killing is a natural part of the human condition... But murder is not... That's why every great religion in the world has always had the Golden Rule."

7. Civilization, Barbarity, and the Cycle of Violence

Timestamps: [25:14–35:12]

• The ending of the story leaves open the question: Does Rainsford become Zaroff, perpetuating the cycle of hunter and hunted?
• Carr and Brooks discuss how war and barbarity are always looming beneath civilization; we respect and practice civilization until survival demands otherwise.

Quote:
"There's this beautiful juxtaposition of that great tension between civilization and barbarity... Civilization never gets to the point at which war is done away with." — Shilo Brooks [33:06]

• Unexpectedly, Carr compares this tension to Roadhouse:
  "Be nice until it’s time to not be nice." — Jack Carr [34:05]

8. Facing Violence: Innate or Trainable?

Timestamps: [35:12–37:13]

• Carr is unsure whether calmness under fire is innate or can be trained, but asserts that training is essential: "You are going to fall to the level of your training, not rise to the occasion."

9. Technology, War, and Honor

Timestamps: [38:02–42:47]

• The use of remote warfare—drones, AI, robots—raises questions: Does it make war easier to wage? Does it erode the honor, courage, and meaning found in traditional combat?
• Carr explores this in his novels and wonders if technological war will eventually “devolve back” to human conflict.

Quote:
"Do the robots just kill each other, or do we now eventually devolve back to that man-on-man type of combat?" — Jack Carr [39:56]

10. Fatherhood, Drive, and Adaptation

Timestamps: [42:47–46:58]

• Carr connects his relentless drive as a writer to the responsibility of fatherhood, especially caring for a special needs child.
• He describes adapting to changing industries as being akin to adapting on the battlefield, underscoring discipline, resilience, and evolving with the times.

Quote:
"The most powerful companies... are keeping you from reading, they're... keeping you from developing that compassion and empathy that comes along with putting yourself in someone else's shoes through these stories." — Jack Carr [46:58]

11. Lightning Round: Book Recommendations

Timestamps: [47:08–51:29]

• Best book about war: Once an Eagle by Anton Myrer.
• Favorite classic author: Hemingway ("The Short, Happy Life of Francis Macomber").
• Favorite western: Flint or Last of the Breed (Louis L’Amour).

12. On Leadership and the SEALs

Timestamps: [51:29–53:31]

• The SEALs' strength: diversity of background and the tradition of testing oneself. Everyone brings unique experiences to the problem set, fostering quick adaptation on the battlefield.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You have to pass...lessons on to the next generation. Before we could write these lessons out...you had to pass them on orally. If you wanted your tribe to survive...apply those lessons..." — Jack Carr [16:45]
• "If people want to improve their lives by 90%...just in the mornings, sit down with a book for an hour instead of going to that phone." — Jack Carr [19:44]
• "Be nice until it’s time to not be nice." — Jack Carr quoting Roadhouse [34:05]
• "You are going to fall to the level of your training, not rise to the occasion." — Jack Carr [35:36]

Important Timestamps

• [01:15] — Jack’s reading background and early influences
• [13:21] — Summary of "The Most Dangerous Game"
• [20:27] — On characterization and the story’s moral dilemmas
• [29:29] — Carr reads a pivotal passage from the story
• [33:06] — Civilization and barbarity: War’s inevitability
• [38:02] — Technology, war, and honor
• [47:08] — Book recommendations

Episode Takeaways

• The primal struggle between hunter and hunted persists in literature and life, resonating across eras.
• Exposure to great books cultivates empathy, compassion, and deeper thinking—serving as an antidote to the reductionism of modern digital culture.
• The modern world, despite its technological advances, cannot escape the timeless moral and existential questions posed by violence and the necessity to defend civilization.
• Read more, reflect more, and whenever possible, choose depth over the distractions of the digital world.

Recommended Reading (as per episode):

• "The Most Dangerous Game" by Richard Connell
• "Savage Son" by Jack Carr
• "Once an Eagle" by Anton Myrer
• "The Short, Happy Life of Francis Macomber" by Ernest Hemingway
• "Last of the Breed" by Louis L’Amour

For further reading lists and updates, visit the Old School Bookshop.