Joan Didion Knew What Hollywood Would Become - Old School with Shilo Brooks

Old School with Shilo Brooks
Episode: "Joan Didion Knew What Hollywood Would Become"
Host: Shilo Brooks
Guest: Peter Savodnik (Editor at The Free Press)
Date: March 12, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of "Old School" delves into Joan Didion’s 1970 novel Play It As It Lays, exploring its portrait of spiritual emptiness and existential malaise in the culture of 1960s Hollywood and Las Vegas. Host Shilo Brooks and guest Peter Savodnik discuss Didion's literary genius, the origins and impact of New Journalism, the enduring emptiness of Hollywood celebrity, and the urgent relevance of Didion’s insights for contemporary men. Their conversation is rich with literary analysis, cultural criticism, and reflection on masculinity, making a compelling case for why men (and all readers) should engage with Didion’s work today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Who Was Joan Didion?

[01:06 – 03:36]

Didion is celebrated as a pioneering journalist and novelist—one of New Journalism's founding voices alongside Tom Wolfe and Hunter S. Thompson.
New Journalism is "the idea that you employ novelistic devices, ideas, mannerisms...to flesh out a depth, a texture, a nuance that...narrowly defined journalism is incapable of" (Savodnik, [02:12]).
Didion's "cool reserve" in reporting is paired with the "novelist's eye," making her journalism deeply empathetic and immersive.

2. The Last Celebrity Writer

[03:36 – 04:59]

Didion is positioned as one of the last literary writers to achieve celebrity status, unlike today's authors.
"We are just a much less literary and literate society than we used to be. So people like Didion, I think, sadly, don't have the same resonance that they used to, even though I wish they did." (Savodnik, [04:14])

3. Summary of Play It As It Lays

[06:38 – 08:27]

The novel follows Maria Wyeth, a thirty-something former model and actress navigating a broken marriage, an institutionalized daughter, and a world saturated with vice and existential drift.
Didion’s innovative style tells the story in vignettes, capturing Maria’s confusion and emotional turmoil while bookending the narrative with a friend’s tragic death and Maria’s ambiguous involvement.

4. Hollywood, Emptiness, and the Crisis of Celebrity

[11:07 – 16:46]

Both hosts discuss the “spiritual emptiness” central to the novel and its depiction of 1960s LA/Vegas, comparing it to the technologized, even emptier Hollywood of today.
"Hollywood is no longer in possession of itself. It's now essentially a subsidiary of Silicon Valley...the people...are, I think, in many ways even more vapid or more kind of casting about for a sense of identity." (Savodnik, [12:16])
On the "crisis of celebrity": "Celebrity serves as a kind of magical connection between the plebs...and again, the divine...In the late 60s and 70s, celebrity was...all powerful...now...celebrity has been sapped of a great deal of its meaning." (Savodnik, [13:56])

5. Didion’s Prophetic Vision: From the 60s to Now

[40:47 – 42:18]

Didion’s analysis of narcissism and spiritual malaise has only become more acute in today’s screen-dominated culture.
"Narcissism...has simply become codified, institutionalized...It's the norm now...We have succumbed to a lot of the forces that Didion is talking about. I don't think...all is lost. I'm not hopeless. But...she was...very prophetic." (Savodnik, [40:47])

6. The Abortion Scene: Feminism, Tradition, and Detail

[18:54 – 21:29]; [37:09 – 38:39]

The novel contains a harrowing pre-Roe v. Wade abortion scene, rendered with Didion’s characteristic restraint and detail.
Maria’s experience is both a confrontation with the era’s chauvinism and a meditation on her longing for traditional domesticity—Didion refuses easy answers or didactic messaging.
"She goes through with it. She wants that. She wants to be free, and she wants to be her own woman, her own person. And at the same time, she's utterly decimated by it...it anticipates all of the tragedy and the complication of the abortion debate..." (Savodnik, [38:50])

7. Masculinity, the “Manosphere,” and Why Men Should Read Didion

[23:58 – 28:04]

Brooks notes Didion’s triumph in making him empathize with a female protagonist in a profound way: "I can't think of a novel...which has made me feel...more like a woman...put me in a woman's shoes in a way that only good fiction can and only the imagination can...That's why men should read this book." (Brooks, [23:58])
Both argue that contemporary men have lost a sense of authentic masculinity and could benefit from Didion’s nuanced, honest exploration of gender dynamics.
"Why should men today read this? Because men have no idea who they are. They have no idea who women are. And they have been subsumed...by a kind of digital culture..." (Savodnik, [27:10])

8. Nihilism, Suicide, and the Choice for Life

[28:04 – 34:23]

The suicide of Maria’s friend BZ is a turning point, with Maria’s refusal to join him signifying a glimmer of hope amidst nihilism.
"I think that Maria is a refutation of nihilism. I think that she chooses in the end...not to play it as it lays...To go along in the last scene is to go along with death...Instead she says, no, thank you." (Savodnik, [30:55])
Despite existential despair, Didion’s protagonist ultimately chooses life.

9. Didion’s Style and Beauty of Her Prose

[36:16 – 38:39]

Savodnik reads a sample from the abortion scene, highlighting Didion’s powerful use of detail and emotional restraint.
"All she can do to try to get herself through this moment is to think about this world that she longs for that no longer exists...And at the same time, she's utterly decimated by it." (Savodnik, [38:50])

10. Didion as Prophet: Reassessing the Boomer Legacy

[42:18 – 44:57]

The novel is positioned as an essential text for those reassessing the legacy of the Baby Boomers, tracing the roots of America’s current cultural and existential crises back to Didion’s era.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Didion’s Journalism:
"Her use of detail kind of expanded greatly for me my idea of what journalism could be." – Peter Savodnik [05:32]
On the Novel’s Emptiness:
"It's a novel of spiritual emptiness...in a kind of existential way that has a resonance today." – Shilo Brooks [11:07]
On Modern Hollywood:
"Hollywood is even more kind of hollowed out spiritually and is even less...aware of any kind of larger good. It's now essentially a subsidiary of Silicon Valley." – Peter Savodnik [12:16]
On Celebrity:
"Celebrity serves as a kind of magical connection between the plebs...and again, the divine." – Peter Savodnik [13:56]
On Feminism and Abortion:
"This world that she longs for that no longer exists, this town that no longer exists, this family that no longer exists...And at the same time, she's utterly decimated by it." – Peter Savodnik [38:50]
On Didion's Empathy:
"I can't think of a writer that puts me as a male into the shoes of a woman struggling...better than Didion does." – Shilo Brooks [24:56]
On Nihilism:
"It's easy to come away thinking...this is a kind of a peon to nihilism. I think it's the opposite...Maria is a refutation of nihilism." – Peter Savodnik [32:48]
On Didion’s Continuing Relevance:
"Narcissism has simply become codified, institutionalized...it's the norm now...We have succumbed to a lot of the forces that Didion is talking about." – Peter Savodnik [40:47]

Timeline of Important Segments

[01:06] – Who Joan Didion was and the new journalism
[06:38] – Summary and impact of Play It As It Lays
[11:07] – The spiritual emptiness of Didion’s setting and its contemporary resonance
[13:56] – The crisis of celebrity in American life
[18:54] – Abortion scene and Didion’s take on feminism and traditionalism
[23:58] – Why men should read Didion; modern masculinity and empathy
[28:04] – BZ’s suicide and Maria’s rejection of nihilism; choosing life
[37:09] – Analysis of Didion’s prose: abortion scene passage
[40:47] – Didion’s prophecy: codification of narcissism
[42:18] – Didion’s importance for reassessing the boomer legacy

Additional Highlights: Lightning Round

[48:42 – 54:32]

Why read this book before the Oscars: “Few novels expose...as powerfully as Play It As It Lays.” – Peter Savodnik [48:57]
On Timothée Chalamet: “He actually has a bit of the old celebrity in him because I don’t know who he is.” – Peter Savodnik [50:37]
Least favorite journalistic word: “Narrative is just a fancy word for lie.” – Peter Savodnik [53:14]
Book that changed Savodnik’s mind: "The Brothers Karamazov...I came away with a darker view of humanity..." [53:43]

Conclusion

The episode is a compelling introduction to Joan Didion and Play It As It Lays, balancing literary analysis with contemporary cultural critique, and showing Didion’s work as urgently relevant to understanding modern emptiness and the search for meaning. Shilo Brooks and Peter Savodnik demonstrate how reading great literature can expand empathy, challenge assumptions, and encourage readers—especially men—to confront profound existential and social questions.

“There’s nothing more beautiful that fiction can do than put you in the shoes...of someone who is alien to you...That’s why men should read this book.” – Shilo Brooks [25:51]