Snakebite | Gunsmoke (08-12-56)

Summary

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Old Time Radio Westerns

Episode Summary: "Snakebite" | Gunsmoke (Original Air Date: 08-12-56)

Host: Andrew Rhynes
Date Released: August 29, 2025

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Overview

This episode of "Old Time Radio Westerns" features the classic Gunsmoke radio drama “Snakebite.” Digitally restored for crispness and clarity, the story unfolds in Dodge City as Marshal Matt Dillon confronts not just lawbreakers, but the boundaries between justice, vengeance, and the cruelty of life out West. The episode explores the tragic chain of events triggered by a seemingly simple act of cruelty, revealing how easily violence on the frontier could spiral out of control, ending in deadly consequences.

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Key Discussion Points & Episode Breakdown

1. A Mean Act Sparks Trouble in Dodge City

[06:04–08:45]

• Marshal Matt Dillon and Chester witness two newcomers, Walt Gorman and Judd Hicks, shoot a harmless puppy in the street.
  • Chester's outrage: “Why, he shot him. Well, what a mean, miserable thing to do. That little old pup wasn’t hurting nothing.” [06:37]
• Dillon confiscates their guns and orders them to retrieve them the next day when they leave Dodge.
• The dead dog belongs not to a child, but to the old, scraggly, reclusive drifter "Pony" Thompson, who comes to town only once a year to drink.
  • Pony on his aversion to confinement: “It’s like being in jail.” [11:41]

2. Pony Thompson’s Grief and Hinted Revenge

[11:00–12:49]

• Pony, mourning his dog, seeks the names of those responsible—not, he says, for money, but for his own retribution.
  • Pony: “Taint money I’m after.” [12:24]
• Dillon refuses to give the names, sensing the old man's anger. Pony hints he’ll discover them himself.

3. Tensions Escalate at the Long Branch Saloon

[13:11–15:38]

• Pony drinks alone at the bar as Gorman and Hicks arrive, further antagonizing locals and Kitty.
• Kitty taunts Gorman for shooting a puppy.
  • Kitty: “Tell me something, mister. You have to be awful brave to shoot puppy dogs.” [14:11]
• Dillon warns the troublemakers to leave, and Pony assures Dillon he won’t seek vengeance—at least that night.

4. Murder at the Stable – Pony Blamed

[16:32–18:20]

• The next morning, Gorman is found slain in the stable: stabbed in the back and with his throat cut.
• Pony is discovered drunk, bloodstained, and next to the murder weapon—his own knife—offering a feeble denial of guilt:
  • Pony: “I didn’t kill nobody... somebody put it there.” [17:27–17:37]
• Matt has no choice but to arrest him, despite Pony's desperate pleas:
  • Pony: “Oh, no, please, Marshal, don’t do that. Please don’t.” [18:11]
  • Matt: “I got no choice, I tell you.” [18:14]

5. Jailbreak and the Pursuit

[19:06–20:03]

• Judd Hicks visits the jail and learns what happened. While Chester is distracted, Pony escapes after striking him.
• A posse forms, with Hicks insisting he needs a gun “to keep [Pony] from shooting me.” [22:19]
• Dillon remains determined to bring Pony in alive, but insists Hicks stay disarmed.

6. Tragic End in the Prairie – The Real “Snakebite”

[23:29–25:03]

• At dawn, Pony is found dead in a cave, showing two small puncture marks on his neck.
  • Matt, observing the scene: “See those two little punctures on his neck there?” [24:31]
• Dillon deduces that Pony was bitten by a rattlesnake. Rather than endure jail, Pony stayed in his hiding place and died of the bite:
  • Matt: “He’d rather die than go to jail. He stayed in there and died.” [25:03]
• Hicks coldly reminds the others that Pony was suspected of Gorman's murder, but the situation turns as Matt confronts him.

7. The Truth Revealed

[25:24–25:46]

• Matt confronts Hicks about suspicious knowledge only the killer would know:
  • Matt: “Did you tell Hicks that Gorman got knifed in the back?”
  • Chester: “No, sir. All I said was he got his throat cut…”
• Realizing Hicks is likely the murderer, Matt insists that Hicks will be brought to justice but gives priority to properly burying Pony.
  • Matt, icily: “And you’ll dig the grave, Hicks. And you’ll dig it deep. The old man deserves that much from you.” [25:47]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Chester on the puppy’s death:
  “Why, he shot him. Well, what a mean, miserable thing to do…” [06:37]
• Pony, on living outside society:
  “I just can’t stand four walls and a roof. It’s like being in jail.” [11:41]
• Marshal Dillon, on law and justice:
  “I don’t allow shooting in Dodge.” [07:59]
• Kitty, on the cruelty of Gorman:
  “Must take a real man to do that, huh?” [14:18]
• Dillon, piecing together the real murderer:
  “Did you tell Hicks that Gorman got knifed in the back?” [25:26]
• Dillon, giving Pony his due:
  “You’ll dig the grave, Hicks, and you’ll dig it deep. The old man deserves that much from you.” [25:47]

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Significant Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|----------------------------------------------| | 06:04–08:45 | Shooting of the puppy, confrontation begins | | 11:00–12:49 | Introduction of Pony Thompson | | 14:11 | Kitty confronts Gorman in the saloon | | 16:32–17:58 | Discovery of Gorman’s murder | | 23:29–25:03 | Discovery of Pony’s body in the cave | | 25:24–25:47 | Matt exposes Hicks as the real killer |

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Tone & Style Highlights

The episode maintains the gruff, gritty, and morally complex tone characteristic of classic Western radio dramas. Justice is not always clean or easy; even the most obvious villains may be victims, and small cruelties can set off tragedies. The dialogue is brisk, laced with dark humor, and reflective of the period’s stoic sensibility.

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Conclusion

“Snakebite” is a rich, suspenseful episode that exemplifies how Gunsmoke used frontier crime to pose deeper ethical dilemmas. Through nuanced storytelling, it shows just how quickly violence can propagate on the edge of civilization, and how even a misunderstood drifter like Pony Thompson can become a casualty of others’ brutality.

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For listeners:
If you enjoy classic Western storytelling, this digitally restored drama, with its vivid soundscape and gripping performances, offers a powerful immersion into the American frontier's harsh realities and the uncertain pursuit of justice.

Transcript

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[Chester]

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[Andrew Rines]

Welcome to the Old Time Radio Westerns. I'm your host Andrew Rines and let's get into this episode. This episode is going to be Gunsmoke. Original air date is August 12, 1956 and the title is Snake Bite.

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Gun Smoke brought to you by L m the modern cigarette that lets you get full exciting flavor through the modern miracle of the pure white miracle. Tip. Live Modern Smoke. L m around Dodge City and in the territory on west, there's just one way to handle the killers and the spoilers. And that's where the U.S. marshal and the smell of gun smoke. Gunsmoke, starring William Conrad, the Transcribe star. The story of the violence that moved west with young America and the story of a man who moved with it.

[Matt Dillon]

I'm that man, Matt Dillon, United States Marshal, the first man they look for and the last they want to meet. It's a chancy job, and it makes a man watchful and a little lonely.

[Chester]

We kindly cooled up after all that hot weather, didn't it, Mr. Dillon, huh? Sure turned out to be a pretty nice day. Yeah.

[Matt Dillon]

Gotta make some man lazy, though.

[Chester]

Hey, look at there. That little old dog out on his feet there. He sure is playful, ain't he?

[Matt Dillon]

Oh, yeah, but he had any sense he'd go lie down in the shade somewhere.

[Chester]

Well, he's just a puff. Oh, now he barely them horses beat. He's gonna get kicked.

[Matt Dillon]

Well, he's gotta learn sometimes.

[Chester]

Go on. Go on, scat. Go on, get away from here, you mut. You going to make that fell mad. Go on. Oh, I'll fix you. Hey. Why, he shot him. Well, what a mean, miserable thing to do. That little old Pup wasn't hurting nothing.

[Matt Dillon]

No, he sure wasn't.

[Chester]

Hey, that's the marshal. Well, what do you want?

[Matt Dillon]

Get on off those horses.

[Chester]

What?

[Matt Dillon]

Do it right now. All right. Now.

[Chester]

What's your trouble, marshal?

[Matt Dillon]

I'll take your gun, mister.

[Chester]

No, you won't.

[Matt Dillon]

I'm not even gonna argue with it. Then I'll make a move. Here, Chester. Hold it.

[Chester]

Yes, sir.

[Matt Dillon]

All right, I'll take yours too.

[Chester]

Sure, Marshall. I ain't gonna try nothing.

[Matt Dillon]

Hold up, now.

[Chester]

What's this all about, anyway?

[Matt Dillon]

What's your name, mister?

[Chester]

Walt Gorman. Mm.

[Matt Dillon]

Now, what's yours? Eekes.

[Chester]

Judd Hicks.

[Matt Dillon]

All right. I don't allow shooting and dodge. Well, ain't no reason to take our guns. I ought to bend them across your heads. Come on, sister.

[Chester]

Hey, wait a minute. When do we get them guns back?

[Matt Dillon]

Tomorrow noon, when you leave town.

[Chester]

But we ain't figuring on leaving. Oh, never mind him, Vix. He can't run us out. My golly, you are too, Mr. Dillon.

[Matt Dillon]

I will, Chester.

[Chester]

Look at that poor little dog. I wonder whose tea is.

[Matt Dillon]

I don't know. Probably belongs to some kid around here.

[Chester]

I'll carry it around back to jail. Maybe the kid will want to bury it himself.

[Matt Dillon]

Yeah, why don't you do that?

[Chester]

Adam Gorman sure is a mean one.

[Matt Dillon]

Well, I can get mean too, Chester. I got a feeling I may have to before I'm through with him.

[Chester]

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[Matt Dillon]

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[Chester]

Start to live the modern way Live, live, live modern Get L and M today it hey, Mr. John, guess what?

[Matt Dillon]

Now what?

[Chester]

Justin, you know who that little raggedy dog belonged to? There wasn't no kid at all. It was an old fellow called Pony Thompson.

[Matt Dillon]

Pony Thompson?

[Chester]

Yes, sir. He come in here a while ago. He heard we had him. He's out back now burying him.

[Matt Dillon]

I never heard of Pony Thompson.

[Chester]

Neither did I. He's a real nice old fellow, though. Oh, kindly. Funny looking. He looks at you from under them scraggly eyebrows like a old gray wolf. But that's him. You'll see.

[Matt Dillon]

Hello, Mr. Thompson?

[Chester]

No, I ain't no mister. Pony's good enough. This is Marshall Dylan. How do, Marshall?

[Matt Dillon]

I'm sorry about your dog.

[Chester]

Well, I shouldn't have brung him. Town's bad enough for humans.

[Matt Dillon]

Where you from, Pony? I haven't seen you in Dodge before.

[Chester]

I don't seek out no town. But once a year I move around on the prairie, Marshal. Sometimes I go into the mountains. I just can't stand four walls and a roof. It's like being in jail.

[Matt Dillon]

What are you doing here?

[Chester]

Now, once a year, I get drunk. What? That's why I come to town, to do it. I figure if I gotta get drunk, I gotta be cooped up in some saloon. You know, just walking down your street there, I feel kinda hog tied. My goodness, Marshall.

[Matt Dillon]

Yep.

[Chester]

Who shot my dog?

[Matt Dillon]

A couple of men who just rode into town.

[Chester]

I'll have to know their names.

[Matt Dillon]

You want them to pay you for the dog?

[Chester]

No, taint money I'm after.

[Matt Dillon]

I didn't think.

[Chester]

You know, I got a heavy old rifle down at the stable at my gatherings. I figured to go kind of beat them half to death with it.

[Matt Dillon]

Now, that wouldn't help you, Pony.

[Chester]

You. You ain't gonna tell me their names?

[Matt Dillon]

No, Pony, I'm not. Where you going?

[Chester]

I can't get drunk less than I start drinking, can I?

[Matt Dillon]

No.

[Chester]

I'll find out who shot my dog. Don't you worry.

[Kenny]

Your friend Pony Thompson's doing pretty well at the bar over there, Matt. That's his second bottle he's working on.

[Matt Dillon]

He sure keeps to himself, doesn't he?

[Kenny]

Man who drinks alone is usually peaceful anyway.

[Matt Dillon]

Yeah.

[Chester]

Now hurry it up, bartender. We ain't got all night.

[Kenny]

Now, who's that pair just came in? Well, you know him, Matt.

[Matt Dillon]

Yeah. One of them's the man who shot Pony's dog I was telling you about.

[Kenny]

He looks like the kind. I know what Sam wants.

[Chester]

Hey, kitty.

[Kenny]

I better go see. I'll be right back.

[Matt Dillon]

Yeah, sure, Kenny.

[Chester]

Hey, look at this. She's pretty. Hey, girly. Buy you a drink?

[Kenny]

No, thanks. What do you want, Sam?

[Matt Dillon]

Never mind about him.

[Chester]

Come on, have a drink.

[Kenny]

I said no.

[Chester]

I said yes. Come on, girly. Loosen up.

[Kenny]

Now, tell me something, mister. You have to be awful brave to shoot puppy dogs.

[Chester]

What?

[Kenny]

Must take a real man to do that, huh?

[Matt Dillon]

I just ought to slap your face in for you. I wouldn't try that gun.

[Chester]

It's a marshal. Now what?

[Matt Dillon]

You get out of here and you take Hicks with you. You sure like having your own way in this here town, don't you? I sure do. Now you get moving.

[Chester]

Come on, Gorman. We don't want no trouble. All right. I sure am getting a belly full of that.

[Kenny]

What a hero.

[Matt Dillon]

Yeah, but you know, Kitty, I wish you hadn't mentioned the dog.

[Chester]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Kenny]

Sorry, Matt. I. I forgot.

[Chester]

Hey. Evening, Marshall.

[Matt Dillon]

Ah, hello, Pony.

[Chester]

So that that feller's name was Gorman, huh? Got a mean face, too, ain't he?

[Matt Dillon]

Now, look here, Pony.

[Chester]

Don't you worry. I ain't going to follow him, Marshall. No, sir. Rebob, I got me this here bottle to finish. Yeah, I'm going to get drunk, too. Night, remember?

[Kenny]

Well, I guess it doesn't matter after all. Matter?

[Matt Dillon]

I hope not, Kitty, but I'm not so sure.

[Chester]

Side meat, fried potatoes, Harmony gritson, sorghum and a cup of lye. Matt, there was a mighty poor breakfast, if I do say so.

[Matt Dillon]

Well, then I'm glad I didn't preach it to you.

[LM Cigarettes Announcer]

Doc.

[Chester]

If you ever treated me to breakfast, I'd be so dumbfounded I couldn't complain. Dylan. Mr. Dunn. What's Chester at the stable door there. You too, Doc. Hurried out. Me? What's he got, a sick horse in there?

[Matt Dillon]

He's got something, Doc. He looks pretty worried.

[Chester]

Chester's always worried. If it isn't money, it's women. Ma Strinick went to the office looking for you.

[Matt Dillon]

Now, what's the trouble, Jesse?

[Chester]

There's been a killing.

[Matt Dillon]

What?

[Chester]

That fellow, Walt Gorman, he got his throat cut in here. Moss found him laying in one of the straws. Pony Thompson done it.

[Matt Dillon]

How do you know?

[Chester]

Well, he was right in there with him and still is. We tied him up with a rope. Of course, he was passed out drunk when Moss found him. Did he come too fast enough when we swooshed some water on him. How could he kill a man when he was passed out? I don't know, Doc, but he was all spattered with blood. And the knife was laying there, right there by his hand. There he is. Marshall. Marshall, make him turn me loose. That's Gorman under the saddle blanket back there. I'll take a look, but I don't know how much good you do. Oh, please get me loose. Marshall, please. I just can't stand this.

[Matt Dillon]

All right, on time.

[Chester]

I didn't chill nobody. The knife's in that board right next to you, Mr. John.

[Matt Dillon]

Bonnie, is this your knife?

[Chester]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure it's mine. I didn't use it on nobody. It was laying right by his hand. Well, then somebody put it there. Gorman's Dead all right, Matt. Four or five hours. He took a knife in his back and then had his throat cut there. Well, I wouldn't do a thing like that, Marshall.

[Matt Dillon]

I wouldn't have thought so, it's true.

[Chester]

Oh, sure, I found him later, after you left the long branch. But I only swore at him a little for shooting my poor pup.

[Matt Dillon]

I'm gonna have to lock you up.

[Chester]

Oh, no, please, Marshall, don't do that. Please don't.

[Matt Dillon]

I got no choice, I tell you.

[Chester]

I'll just go crazy. You put me in jail. I told you how I am. Just.

[Matt Dillon]

Or take him down. Down.

[Kenny]

Come on, Pony.

[Chester]

Let's get going. Oh, please don't. Not J. You should have thought about that before you killed Gman. Now, come on. I'd rather get shot. I'd rather die. You ain't going to die. Now walk along. Hello, Marshall.

[Matt Dillon]

I've been waiting for you. Hello, Hicks.

[Chester]

I seen Chester a while ago taking Pony Thompson into the jail here.

[Matt Dillon]

He'll tell you what happened.

[Chester]

He sure did. I didn't want to see Gorman, not after what that old man did to him.

[Matt Dillon]

Come out into the office.

[Chester]

Chester. What's the matter?

[Matt Dillon]

What's the matter? You sick or something?

[Chester]

He hit me. What?

[Matt Dillon]

Where's Pony Thompson?

[Chester]

That's what I'm telling you. He hit me with that stool in there. You mean he got away? I turned my back to go out of that cell. That's all I remember.

[Matt Dillon]

And he's been gone about 20 minutes.

[Chester]

Well, let's find him. Standing around here is doing no good.

[Matt Dillon]

We'll find him, Hicks.

[Chester]

How about. I know where he went.

[Matt Dillon]

You know where?

[Chester]

Well, in the stable there. He was mumbling about a hideout he knows down by the Arkansas somewhere.

[Matt Dillon]

You feel up to riding, Joseph?

[Chester]

You bet I do. And I'm coming, too. I'll shoot that old devil on sight.

[Matt Dillon]

It's a good thing I took your gun, Hicks. But you're coming with us. All right. Just to make sure you don't find another one.

[Chester]

Why don't you live modern? Live modern Live, live, live modern Change to L and M.

[LM Cigarettes Announcer]

Yes, have an L. M. Enjoy a really modern cigarette. A cigarette that gives you all the full, exciting flavor of today's finest tobaccos. No other cigarette plane or filter gives you the flavor you get through the modern miracle of the L, M miracle tip through the pure white miracle tip L and M tastes richer, smokes cleaner, draws easier. So light up, free up, let your taste come alive. Live modern smoke L and M Make.

[Matt Dillon]

Today your big red letter day and.

[Chester]

Start to live the modern way. Live, live, live. Modern. Get l M it. Well, it's breaking day, Mr. Dillon. We can get moving again directly. We could be 30 miles from here by now. Well, you can't track a man in the dark, Hakes. We done the best we could. Blackest night I ever seen. Marshall, I want you to give me a gun today.

[Matt Dillon]

You're awful anxious to shoot him down, aren't you, Higgs?

[Chester]

It's to keep him from shooting me. Probably armed by now. Oh, sure he is. There's lots of guns laying along the banks of the Arkansas. I'm cold. I'm gonna walk around a little and stretch my legs. Don't you get lost. Sonny, why don't you try keeping quiet? Your voice itches, my ears.

[Matt Dillon]

Exterminism. How long were you and Gorman partners? About a year. Why? I just wondered.

[Chester]

You gonna let me have a gun today?

[Matt Dillon]

I wouldn't trust you with a buggy.

[Chester]

Now, you got no cause to say that.

[Matt Dillon]

I want Pawnee Thompson alive. He'd be no good to me dead.

[Chester]

What do you mean?

[Matt Dillon]

I didn't get a chance to talk to him, for one thing.

[Chester]

Hey, Mr. Dillon. Yeah, what? There's a little old cave right up here. Go crawl in it. Maybe it'll fall on you. He sure bothers me.

[Matt Dillon]

You kind of bother him.

[Chester]

I ain't done nothing to him. Mr. Dunn, come here, quick.

[Matt Dillon]

What?

[Chester]

Yeah. What is it, Chester? There's a man in this cave. It's old Pony Thompson.

[Matt Dillon]

Oh. Drag him out.

[Chester]

I. I did. He's dead. Mr. Dylan. Huh? Yes, sir.

[Matt Dillon]

Make a torch out of some of those dry weeds, Chester. I can't see much here.

[Chester]

Yes, sir. What is it, Marshall? Somebody kill him?

[Matt Dillon]

I don't know, Hakes. Just stay out of the way.

[Chester]

Garnet, you treat me like I was dirt. I've had enough of that.

[Matt Dillon]

Come on, Chester.

[LM Cigarettes Announcer]

Hurry up.

[Chester]

Yes, sir. I got it. Here, let me get lit.

[Matt Dillon]

I don't feel blood anywhere.

[Chester]

Yeah. Ain't gonna burn long, though.

[Matt Dillon]

Hold it near his head.

[Chester]

I don't see nothing.

[Matt Dillon]

No, wait a minute. Hold it closer.

[Chester]

Huh?

[Matt Dillon]

Down here.

[Chester]

There ain't a mark on him.

[Matt Dillon]

Yes, there is. See those two little punctures on his neck there?

[Chester]

Yes, sir.

[Matt Dillon]

All right, Chester. Well, I guess Pawnee meant what he said about not liking jail.

[Chester]

What do you mean?

[Matt Dillon]

He'd been sitting right down there in front of his cave for about eight hours. Now, he could have hollered for help, but he didn't.

[Chester]

Help for what?

[Matt Dillon]

There was a rattlesnake in that cave.

[Chester]

That's what them marks on his neck was. He got bit.

[Matt Dillon]

Rather than face jail, he stayed in there and died.

[Chester]

Don't get to feeling so sorry for him. He stuck Gorman in the back and cut his throat, didn't he?

[Matt Dillon]

Yeah, Hicks. That's exactly what happened to Gorman.

[Chester]

What are you looking at me like that for?

[Matt Dillon]

Chester?

[Chester]

Yes, sir.

[Matt Dillon]

Did you tell Hicks that Gorman got knifed in the back?

[Chester]

No, sir. All I said was he got his.

[Matt Dillon]

Throat cut and poor old Pony Thompson died from nothing. I don't know why you killed your partner, and I don't much care. But we'll find out after we get Pony buried properly.

[Chester]

Now look here, Marsh.

[Matt Dillon]

And you'll dig the grave, Hicks, and you'll dig it deep. The old man deserves that much from you.

[LM Cigarettes Announcer]

In a moment, our star, William Conrad. In a recent study, a noted traffic expert estimates that inadequate highways and resultant traffic jams cost the American economy billions of dollars every year and suggests that the cost of modernizing our roads would quickly be regained in time saved. Discussing motor accidents, this same expert suggests that legislation may be needed to curb the speed of our powerful automobiles before they ever leave the factories. This is a controversial question on which the experts disagree. But all traffic experts agree on one thing. Common sense cannot be legislated into the automobile driver. He has to learn it by himself. Anger, bravado and the spirit of competition often are expressed on the highway by excessive speeding, disregard of traffic signs and signals and other risky maneuvers. Psychologists sum it up by saying that careless drivers are emotionally immature. Put more bluntly, it means that careless driving is kid stuff. This has been a CBS Radio public service announcement.

[Matt Dillon]

You know, when a high plains woman was looking for a husband, Callahan's used to laugh and say she's throwing a wide loop. Well, next week a woman catches her man right enough, but with a.50 caliber rifle. And that was the West.

[LM Cigarettes Announcer]

Gunsmoke, produced and directed by Norman MacDonald, stars William Conrad as Matt Dillon, U.S. marshal. Our story was specially written for Gunsmoke by John Meston, with music composed and conducted by Rex Corey, sound patterns by Tom Hanley and Bill James. Featured in the cast were Joseph Kearns, Vic Parron and Lawrence Dobkin. Harley Bear As Chester, Howard McNear as Doc and Georgia Ellis as Kitty. Join us again next week for another specially transcribed story on gun smoke.

[Chester]

Sam.

[Grainger Announcer]

If you work as a manufacturing facilities engineer, installing a new piece of equipment can be as complex as the machinery itself. From prep work to alignment and testing. It's your team's job to put it all together. That's why it's good to have Grainger on your side. With industrial grade products and next day delivery, Grainger helps ensure you have everything you need close at hand through every step of the installation. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Andrew Rines]

This has been a presentation of otrwesterns.com and we hope you enjoyed. Please take some time to like and rate our shows in your favorite podcast application. Follow us on Facebook by going to otrwesterns.com Facebook subscribe to our YouTube channel by going to otrwesterns.Com YouTube and send us an email podcasttrwesterns.com youm can call and leave us a voicemail. 707-986-8739 this episode is copyright under the Attribution Non Commercial Share Like Copyright. For more information go to otrwesterns.com/copyright. Have a great day and thanks for listening.