Ologies with Alie Ward
Episode: Fromology (CHEESE) Part 2 with Kyra James
Release Date: July 16, 2025

In this captivating second installment of the Fromology series, host Alie Ward delves deeper into the rich and varied world of cheese alongside guest Kyra James, a certified cheese professional and pharmacologist. This episode, released on July 16, 2025, addresses an array of listener questions, offering insightful discussions on everything from illegal cheeses to the intricacies of vegan cheese alternatives.

1. Introduction to Cheese Mysteries

Alie opens the episode by reminding listeners of the importance of tuning into Part One for foundational knowledge about cheese. She sets the stage for a session filled with listener inquiries and fascinating cheese facts, preparing the audience for an engaging exploration of cheese-related topics.

2. Illegal and Exotic Cheeses

Listener Question: Roni from LA inquires about cheeses that contain bugs.

Kaira James explains,

“Maggot cheese is called katsu marzu. It means putrid cheese. And it's illegal” ([05:05]).

Katsu Marzu, originating from Sardinia, involves introducing specific flies whose larvae consume the cheese, creating a unique texture and flavor. Although illegal, traditional methods persist, and consuming the live larvae can pose health risks, including intestinal issues.

3. The Science Behind Swiss Cheese Holes

Listener Question: Jacob from Colorado asks, “how does Swiss cheese get its holes? Like girl, is it breathing?” ([09:46]).

Kaira James clarifies,

“They're actually called eyes and they're basically traps of gas. So during the fermentation process... that creates the holes inside the cheese” ([09:47]).

The formation of holes, or "eyes," in Swiss cheese like Emmental is due to gas bubbles produced during fermentation. Recent studies revealed that trace amounts of hay in the milk act as nuclei for these gas bubbles, a discovery that led Swiss cheesemakers to add hay flour to replicate traditional methods affected by modern milk collection processes.

4. Vegan Cheese: Real Cheese or Not?

Listener Questions: Jerry Brown and Lauren Cooper explore the legitimacy and quality of vegan cheese alternatives.

Kaira James asserts,

“To me, vegan cheese is not cheese. I think it's a vegan product. I think vegan cheese product might be a better way to name it, but it's not the same as cheese” ([15:45]).

While vegan cheeses often mimic the fermentation and aging processes of traditional cheeses using plant-based ingredients, Kaira emphasizes that without dairy milk, they don't meet the conventional definition of cheese. She encourages embracing them as distinct products rather than direct substitutes.

5. Sharp vs. Mild Cheddar and Cheese Coloring

Listener Questions: Abby Grebe and Megan Walker pose questions about sharp cheddar and its orange hue.

Kaira James explains,

“In America, a sharp cheese is aged between six and eight months... cheddar's orange, they've been dyed with a natural ingredient called annatto” ([19:02]).

The aging process imparts a sharper flavor to cheddar, while the orange coloring comes from annatto seeds, which add color without altering the taste. White cheddar simply lacks this dye, resulting in its natural color.

6. The Crystals in Aged Cheeses

Listener Question: Rachel Glase asks about the crystals found in older cheeses like aged Gouda.

Kaira James responds,

“They're crystallized protein... tyrosine crystals. As the cheese ages, proteins break down and form these crunchy bits” ([22:27]).

These crystals enhance the eating experience by adding texture and concentrated flavors. They indicate well-aged cheese and are prized by many aficionados for their unique crunch.

7. Why Some Cheeses Melt Differently

Listener Question: Claire Gebben wonders why certain cheeses like mozzarella melt smoothly while others like halloumi remain firm.

Kaira James answers,

“It has to do with the moisture and the acidity of the cheese. Higher moisture and lower acidity cheeses melt well” ([24:13]).

Cheeses with higher moisture content and lower acidity, such as mozzarella and Gruyère, melt seamlessly, making them ideal for dishes like grilled cheese sandwiches. In contrast, high-acid cheeses like paneer and halloumi have protein structures that resist melting.

8. Making Cheese at Home

Listener Questions: Caro Young and others seek guidance on homemade cheese production.

Kaira James suggests,

“You can buy cheese making kits... You can make mozzarella, ricotta, or even a simple farmer's cheese with lemon juice” ([30:48]).

Starting with a cheese-making kit simplifies the process, allowing enthusiasts to create fresh cheeses like ricotta or mozzarella by following provided instructions and utilizing basic ingredients like lemon juice to curdle the milk.

9. Government Cheese Reserves

Listener Questions: Mike Earl and others inquire about the existence and purpose of government cheese caves.

Kaira James explains,

“These are man-made caves storing large wheels of cheese for government programs addressing food insecurity” ([50:34]).

Originating during the 1970s to support dairy farmers during economic downturns, these reserves ensure a stable supply of cheese for food assistance programs. The storage facilities, often limestone quarries in states like Missouri, have historically held surplus cheese to prevent waste and support those in need.

10. Perfecting the Charcuterie Board

Listener Questions: Debbie Powers and others seek tips for assembling the ideal charcuterie board.

Kaira James advises,

“Diversity is key. Include a mixture of soft and hard cheeses, various textures and colors, and pair them with something crunchy, sweet, savory, and pickled” ([68:31]).

A well-balanced charcuterie board features an assortment of cheeses complemented by items like olives, jams, crackers, and cured meats. Consulting a cheesemonger can further enhance selections based on personal preferences and occasion.

11. Pasteurization vs. Raw Milk Cheese

Listener Questions: Joshua yyz and others ask about the effects of pasteurization on cheese.

Kaira James clarifies,

“Pasteurization kills both good and bad bacteria. While it ensures safety, it may reduce some natural flavors, but cultures can be reintroduced post-pasteurization” ([58:27]).

While raw milk cheeses are celebrated for their complex flavors derived from natural bacteria, pasteurized cheeses offer consistency and safety by eliminating harmful microbes. Both methods have their merits, and the choice often depends on personal taste and safety considerations.

12. The Allure of Squeaky Cheese Curds

Listener Questions: Lily and others are curious about why fresh cheese curds squeak.

Kaira James explains,

“The squeak is due to the fresh cheese curds’ protein structure. As they age, they lose this texture and stop squeaking” ([61:46]).

Squeaky curds indicate freshness and are highly prized, especially in regions like Wisconsin, where they are often enjoyed fresh from the creamery. The unique texture adds a delightful auditory and gustatory experience.

13. Cheese Storage Tips

Listener Questions: Alie and others ask about optimal ways to store cheese to maintain its quality.

Kaira James recommends,

“Wrap cheese in parchment paper and place it in a plastic bag without sealing it to allow airflow. Avoid plastic-only wraps to prevent suffocation of the cheese” ([71:19]).

Proper storage maintains the cheese’s integrity by balancing moisture retention and breathability, ensuring longevity and optimal flavor.

14. The Addictive Nature of Cheese

Listener Question: Lauren Allegra wonders if cheese contains addictive chemicals.

Kaira James confirms,

“Cheese consumption releases dopamine, which makes you feel happy. The milk protein casein breaks down into casomorphins, stimulating dopamine in the brain” ([66:47]).

This biochemical reaction explains why cheese can be comforting and even habit-forming, providing a pleasurable experience that encourages repeated consumption.

15. Favorite and Least Favorite Aspects of Being a Cheesemonger

Listener Questions: Various listeners inquire about Kaira’s personal experiences in the cheese industry.

Kaira James shares,

“My favorite part is the network of people and the relationships with farms and cheesemakers. The least favorite is the sanitization and cleaning required to maintain cheese quality” ([70:39]).

Her passion for cheese is evident in her dedication to fostering connections within the industry and ensuring the highest standards of quality, despite the routine challenges of maintenance.

Conclusion

Part Two of Fromology (CHEESE) provides a comprehensive and delightful journey through the nuanced world of cheese. From exploring the peculiarities of illegal cheeses like katsu marzu to demystifying the science behind Swiss cheese holes and the debates surrounding vegan alternatives, Kaira James offers expert insights that both educate and entertain. Listeners leave with a deeper appreciation for cheese, armed with knowledge on everything from perfect storage techniques to crafting the ideal charcuterie board. Whether you're a seasoned cheese enthusiast or a curious newcomer, this episode serves as an invaluable resource in understanding the complexities and joys of cheese.

Notable Quotes:

• Kaira James ([05:05]): "Maggot cheese is called katsu marzu. It means putrid cheese. And it's illegal."

• Kaira James ([09:47]): "They're actually called eyes and they're basically traps of gas. So during the fermentation process... that creates the holes inside the cheese."

• Kaira James ([15:45]): "To me, vegan cheese is not cheese. I think it's a vegan product. I think vegan cheese product might be a better way to name it, but it's not the same as cheese."

• Kaira James ([22:27]): "They're crystallized protein... tyrosine crystals. As the cheese ages, proteins break down and form these crunchy bits."

• Kaira James ([58:27]): "Pasteurization kills both good and bad bacteria. While it ensures safety, it may reduce some natural flavors, but cultures can be reintroduced post-pasteurization."

For more insights and a deeper dive into the fascinating world of cheese, listen to the full episode of Fromology (CHEESE) Part 2 on your favorite podcast platform.