Odonatology (DRAGONFLIES) with Jessica Ware

Summary

Ologies with Alie Ward: Odonatology (Dragonflies) with Dr. Jessica Ware

Release Date: November 6, 2024

Introduction to Odonatology

In this episode of Ologies with Alie Ward, host Alie Ward delves into the fascinating world of dragonflies with her guest, Dr. Jessica Ware, a renowned odonatologist. Dr. Ware is a curator at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City and serves as the Chair of the Division of Invertebrate Zoology. With an impressive background that includes a PhD from Rutgers in Etymology and leadership roles in both the Worldwide Dragonfly Association and the Entomological Society of America, Dr. Ware brings a wealth of knowledge and passion to the subject.

Dr. Jessica Ware’s Journey into Odonatology

Dr. Ware shares her personal journey into the study of dragonflies, highlighting her early fascination with these insects during childhood visits to the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. Initially studying marine biology, her path took a significant turn thanks to her late advisor, Mike May, who encouraged her to explore the vast unanswered questions in odonatology. This mentorship not only steered her career towards dragonfly research but also fostered a collaborative and inclusive community within the field.

Notable Quote:
Jessica Ware [04:01]: "The museum is kind of like Xanadu. It's like the best. I mean there's nothing I can't imagine a better job. It's really, really fun."

Understanding Dragonflies and Damselflies

A central theme of the conversation revolves around the distinctions and similarities between dragonflies and damselflies, both belonging to the order Odonata. Dr. Ware explains that while there are approximately 3,000 species each of dragonflies and damselflies, they exhibit notable differences:

• Anatomical Differences: Dragonflies possess internal gills and stockier bodies, while damselflies have external gills and more slender forms.
• Oviposition Practices: Dragonflies typically lay eggs on the water's surface without an ovipositor, whereas damselflies use their ovipositors to deposit eggs in plant material.

Notable Quote:
Alie Ward [10:35]: "Both damsel and dragonflies have an equal number of species, like a whopping 3,000 each."

Life Cycle and Development

Dr. Ware provides an in-depth look at the dragonfly life cycle, emphasizing the dramatic transformation from aquatic nymphs to aerial adults:

• Egg Stage: Eggs are laid either in plant material (damselflies) or on water surfaces (dragonflies).
• Nymph Stage: Dragonfly nymphs, or naiads, are formidable predators in freshwater environments, feeding on mosquito larvae, small fish, and tadpoles. Their development can range from six weeks to several years, depending on the species and environmental conditions.
• Adult Stage: The adult dragonfly life is typically short-lived, lasting a few months. Adult dragonflies focus on feeding to build energy reserves necessary for flight, mating, and egg-laying.

Notable Quote:
Jessica Ware [12:10]: "They eat a lot as adults. They do, depending on the taxon. Some of them have a lot of spines on their tibia and they actually are kind of like bringing food in towards their mouth as they're flying."

Mating Behaviors and Sexual Dimorphism

The episode delves into the complex mating rituals of dragonflies, highlighting behaviors such as:

• Copulatory Wheel Formation: Males grasp females by the thorax, forming a heart-shaped wheel structure to facilitate sperm transfer.
• Sperm Displacement: Males often use specialized appendages to displace previous males' sperm, ensuring their own genes are passed on.
• Guarding Techniques: Post-mating, males may engage in non-contact or contact guarding to protect their mating rights.

Dr. Ware also addresses sexual dimorphism, explaining how males and females can be distinguished by examining the base of the abdomen for reproductive structures and differences in coloration.

Notable Quote:
Jessica Ware [27:00]: "If you see something that looks like a little bump or a little notch kind of sticking out at the base of the first, second, third kind of segment of the abdomen, then that's the secondary penis."

Coloration and Its Purposes

The vibrant colors of dragonflies serve multiple functions:

• Structural Coloration: Created by microscopic surface structures that reflect light, resulting in iridescent hues.
• Pigment-Based Coloration: Derived from pigments like melanin, contributing to the diverse color patterns seen across species.

These colorations play roles in sexual signaling, species recognition, thermoregulation, and predator avoidance. Dr. Ware discusses how some species exhibit color morphs that change over time or in response to environmental factors.

Notable Quote:
Jessica Ware [36:33]: "So there's a combination of factors in terms of whether or not it can make you more visible or less visible to predators."

Flight Mechanics and Technological Inspiration

Dragonflies are celebrated for their exceptional flight capabilities:

• Wing Structure: With two sets of wings and specialized venation patterns, dragonflies achieve remarkable agility and speed.
• Flight Patterns: Capable of hovering, flying backward, and rapid maneuvers, making them efficient predators and elusive prey.

These attributes have inspired advancements in drone technology, emphasizing efficiency and maneuverability. NASA's Dragonfly mission, a quadcopter designed to explore Saturn's moon Titan, exemplifies this inspiration.

Notable Quote:
Jessica Ware [52:08]: "Humans have for a long time taken inspiration by dragonfly flight. Dragonflies do a lot of the things that we want to do when we try and design aircrafts that are, you know, stealthy or energetically inexpensive."

Cultural Significance and Symbolism

Dragonflies hold varied symbolic meanings across different cultures:

• Good Luck: Seen as positive omens in many traditions.
• Messengers: In some Native American cultures, dragonflies symbolize communication and transformation.
• Balance and Harmony: Among the Dene people, dragonflies represent balance in life.

Dr. Ware explores these diverse interpretations, noting how dragonflies' enduring presence in human lore underscores their impact on cultural storytelling.

Notable Quote:
Alie Ward [67:54]: "In some cultures, they're considered to be very good luck. In other cultures, there's a story in East Asia where if they get caught in your hair, that it's a sign that mental illness is coming."

Conservation Concerns

The conversation shifts to the pressing issue of dragonfly conservation:

• Insect Decline: Dragonflies, like many insects, are experiencing population declines due to habitat loss, pollution, and climate change.
• Freshwater Dependency: As dragonflies rely on clean freshwater ecosystems, any degradation of these habitats directly impacts their survival.
• Conservation Efforts: Dr. Ware emphasizes the importance of protecting freshwater sources and supporting initiatives that preserve these vital ecosystems.

Notable Quote:
Jessica Ware [71:31]: "What we don't know is whether or not the pattern is the same in the Arctic or in the temperate regions or in the tropic regions for dragonflies and damselflies."

Audience Q&A Highlights

Throughout the episode, Dr. Ware addresses numerous listener questions:

• Identifying Gender: Techniques for distinguishing male and female dragonflies through abdominal structures and coloration.
• Taste and Edibility: While not a primary focus, the episode touches on the edibility of dragonflies, noting their high protein content and cultural consumption in certain regions.
• Flight Speed and Mechanics: Detailed explanations of how dragonflies achieve their impressive flight speeds and agility.
• Brain Function and Vision: Insight into dragonfly neurological structures and their advanced visual systems, which include multiple opsins for color detection.

Notable Quote:
Jessica Ware [34:10]: "They have two sets of reproductive structures. So they have a penis at the tip of their abdomen from which sperm is ejaculated, and they put it into a second penis which is at the base of their abdomen."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with Dr. Ware expressing her enthusiasm for odonatology, highlighting the joy of fieldwork, collaborative research, and the continuous opportunities for discovery within the field. Alie Ward wraps up by encouraging listeners to engage with the dragonfly community and appreciate these remarkable insects in their natural habitats.

Notable Quote:
Jessica Ware [76:57]: "I feel so lucky that I get to do it. It's kind of a blessed life."

Further Exploration

For those interested in diving deeper into the world of dragonflies, Dr. Jessica Ware recommends field guides, engaging with local dragonfly groups, and utilizing platforms like iNaturalist for species identification. She underscores the importance of community and education in fostering a greater appreciation and understanding of these vital insects.

Connect with Dr. Jessica Ware

To learn more about Dr. Ware’s work and contributions to odonatology, listeners are encouraged to follow her on social media platforms and visit her profiles linked in the show notes.

---

This summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, focusing on the educational content and enriching discussions between Alie Ward and Dr. Jessica Ware. Notable quotes have been included to highlight key insights, providing a comprehensive overview for those who have yet to listen.

Transcript

[Jessica Ware]

Running a small business takes endurance, determination and the right support to reach your goals, and MasterCard is here to help.

[Alie Ward]

Fuel that journey in a fast paced.

[Jessica Ware]

Digital world with innovative tools and resources. We're here to guide businesses every step of the way digitally because when small business wins, everyone wins. Let's power up our communities one small business and one step at a time.

[Alie Ward]

Keeping the community running strong.

[Jessica Ware]

Priceless.

[Alie Ward]

Building a portfolio with Fidelity Basket Portfolios is kind of like making a sandwich. It's as simple as picking your stocks and ETFs, sort of like your meats and other topics, and managing it as one big juicy investment. Now that's pretty good. Learn [e-mail] baskets Investing involves risks, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member NYSE SIPC oh hey, it's the mail that you haven't opened sitting on your counter. ALIE Ward this is Ologies. This is Dragonflies. You did not know you needed an episode on that, but here we are. Okay, this is oh so good. Okay, so this guest is the only dragonfly expert I wanted for the job. I've waited years to chat with her and she got her undergrad degree at the University of British Columbia, Department of Zoology. She got a PhD at Rutgers in Etymology and is currently a curator at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City, where she serves as Chair of the Division of Invertebrate Zoology. Also a professor at the Richard Gilder Graduate School, she has been the President of the Worldwide Dragonfly association and the Entomological Society of America. Big deals. And the co founder of Entomologists in Color. She knows dragonflies. We're here to talk about them. Now. First off, Odonata sounds a little bit too much like odontology, which is the study of teeth, and I always got that confused. But there's a reason. Odonata means toothed ones and it's the study of these big winged beauties that cause a lot of feelings in us to be discussed. We will do that in a moment, but first a huge thank you to patrons who support the [e-mail] Ologies for as little as a dollar a month. Thank you to everyone in Ologies shirts and hats and totes from ologiesmerch.com we have shorter kid friendly classroom safe smallogies episodes available wherever you get podcasts or the link in the show notes. Also thank you to everyone who leaves reviews for this show, all of which I read and they warm my heart and they help the show and I prove it by combing through them and reading a new one every week. And this is from I should be sleeping 25, who wrote in an age of brain rot and doom scrolling ologies is a pinnacle of hope and brain growth. I should be sleeping 25. Thank you for staying awake long enough to write that. So let's get right into this episode which I'm putting out on the night of the US election. I'm literally recording this as ballots are coming in. Tomorrow is the 6th. It's my birthday. I hope it's a good one. I hope so. But for now, let's get into the differences between a damselfly and a dragonfly. How fast they can dart around. What cultures love and fear them. Faking your own death. The scariest babies in the world. Sending dragonflies to space. Sci fi aviation inspiration. Mating choreography. Attracting them to your yard, maybe to eat them. How big they were in the age of dinosaurs and why they are cooler than dinosaurs. With scholar dragonfly expert and thus odnatologist, Dr. Jessica Ware.

[Jessica Ware]

My name is Jessica Ware and I use she her pronouns.

[Alie Ward]

And you're in New York, right?

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah.

[Alie Ward]

Yes. And what is it like working with, with the museum? Is that bonkers?

[Jessica Ware]

It's awesome. I love it. I worked at Rutgers for 10 years as a professor before coming here and I loved it there too, in a different way. But the museum is kind of. It's like Xanadu. It's like the best. I mean there's nothing I can't imagine a better job. It's really, really fun.

[Alie Ward]

Did you go there when you were younger? Did you have like a history of going when you were or when you would come to the city? Like, what's your history with the museum?

[Jessica Ware]

Well, I'm from Canada, so I went to the Royal Ontario Museum, the Rom in Toront, that's our natural history museum. My mom took my twin and I there quite often. I remember seeing a gorilla diorama. It's like etched in my mind, this gorilla diorama. So I know I went there when I was short enough that I could barely see inside the diorama.

[Alie Ward]

So Dr. Ware's first visit to New York's iconic American Museum of Natural History was. She was a wee one. It was about 25 years ago. But she did a postdoc there working on termite evolution. And she says she was nervous to apply for a full time position at the museum because she thought she'd be a university, but she just has undergrads in the summer rather than throughout the year.

[Jessica Ware]

And I certainly never ever in a million years thought that I would work here. It kind of feels like the same, but just with more time for field work and more encouragement for field work.

[Alie Ward]

Obviously I love bugs a lot. So I'm like the notion of being, doing field work and getting to see bugs in person as part of your job is like what? That's a job? That's so exciting.

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah, there's a lot of them out there. And we do a lot of stuff in the Arctic, like you know, 68, 69 degrees latitude and then we do a lot of stuff in the tropics. And they're both amazing, like insect fanuc. Insect communities. They're very different. I have the temperate arctic and tropical stuff. It's fun.

[Alie Ward]

Speaking of location, location, location, where do dragonflies live? Are there dragonflies in the Arctic? What's their range like?

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah, there's dozens and pondescence in the Arctic. There's six that are kind of whole arctic that have a circumpolar distribution. But there's over 40, I think species that live north of the Arctic circle. In general I would say like dragonflies and damselflies are found globally everywhere except for Antarctica.

[Alie Ward]

So the upper arctic reaches of the globe, but not in the snow and ice at the bottom of the globe. Although the globe's position really, I don't know why it matters. We could be floating any which way.

[Jessica Ware]

You know what I mean? I collected dragonflies in Namibia which is a very dry kind of deserty environment. But like you can find them in deserts, you can find them in mountainous regions, temperate, tropical, arctic kind of, you name it, they're there. They've been around for a really long time. So they've basically fit themselves into a lot of different niche spaces.

[Alie Ward]

I feel like I have flimflam in my mind that they were at one point the size of like a couch cushion. And I feel like that is not correct. How big prehistorically were they?

[Jessica Ware]

So the proto kind of Odoneta, the pre dragonflies and damselflies, they're a group we call Griffin flies. Commonly they're in this family Meganuridae. They flew during the Carboniferous period. So like 350 million years ago. And those were big, those had like each wing was like 37 centimeters. So it's like that's a pretty big size individual.

[Alie Ward]

So each wing was almost 15 inches long and they were total about 2ft across, weighing about a pound. So about as large as a small hawk or like a modern day crow.

[Jessica Ware]

But crown odonates, they're not Modern dragonflies. Modern dragonflies and damiflies are younger, I think, you know, 250, 225 million years old or so.

[Alie Ward]

So a full 100 million years later.

[Jessica Ware]

And depending on what you're measuring for size, Right, there's either Megaloprapus, which is a damselfly that weighs almost nothing, but it has a pretty big wingspan and a very long, very, very thin thread like abdomen because it lays its eggs in tree holes. Oh, so that's a very big one in terms of just like the total measurements of centimeters. But then in terms of mass, probably it would be petillarity, which are a different family in Anisotor, the dragonflies, and some of the petillarity that live in Australia. Petalura is one. Petalura gigantea. It's got that name for a reason. I mean, it's like a good size. It's hefty, you know, it's not as long as megalith rapists, but it weighs quite a bit. So depending on if you're going for like size in terms of length and width or size in terms of mass, then those are the two kind of biggest ones that we have nowadays.

[Alie Ward]

When did they go from the griffin flies to dragonflies? And also who's naming them because named after griffins and dragons, like pretty baller. It's like pretty great.

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah, those are some good names. I think they think that like there was an English translation from a European language, like a Slavic language language for devil fly with this myth that there was like a devil's horse that took to the sky. Then maybe that's how the name dragonfly came about. Well, they're not sure. So there's like a lot of common names for each of the families. Darners are the name, the common name for Aishnadi. And they have an ovipositor that is sort of long, although to be honest, it's not as long as some other types of dragonflies. But anyways, some people thought it looked like a sewing needle because they lay their eggs in plant material. So they're called darners. But a lot of the damselflies are related to their color. I mean, they're all very colorful, but there's jewel wings and bluets for the. Some of the damselfly names and the common names vary in general, sort of country by country, although the dragonfly community is pretty tight. So I think they're trying to like, come up with like, more universal common names across the orders and across the order across the families and such.

[Alie Ward]

Are There damselfly people and dragonfly people. And do they fight?

[Jessica Ware]

So there's like, I think odontology in general, really tight community, really good vibes only, but you tend to focus on one or the other, although there are some exceptions. But my specialty are dragonflies. And my colleague Seth Beibie, he really focuses on the damselflies. I think there's a lot. I mean, there's 3,000 of each of those groups, right? The 3,000 Damselfies. 3,000 Dragonflies. Ish. And they do slightly different things. They all have freshwater nymphs, but the damselflies have gills that are external and the dragonflies have internal gills. The dragonflies are kind of stocky bodied and some of them have lost their ovipositor. So they lay their eggs on the surface of water. None of the damselflies do that. They all lay their eggs and plants. So I feel like already like they're kind of a little bit different.

[Alie Ward]

So both damsel and dragonflies have an equal number of species, like a whopping 3,000 each. And both their bib, their nymphs, sometimes called naiads, live in water. And we're going to get to those absolute killing machines in a bit. But again, dragonflies have internal gills and kind of fatter bodies. Both very cool. But let's say that a damselfly is kind of like a coupe or a sedan, while the other is an suv.

[Jessica Ware]

And I'm like firmly on Team Dragonfly, but I published some stuff with like Ola Fink and I published on Megaloprapus on that really big damselfly. I mean, there's a lot of interesting things in damselflies. I guess I just like, I really love dragonflies.

[Alie Ward]

Do damselfly people, do their feelings get hurt when people call damselflies dragonflies? When there's the smaller, skinnier ones and everyone's like a dragonfly? Do you think there's a damselfly researcher who's just looking at their hands and wistfully walks home crying?

[Jessica Ware]

I think a lot of us just use the word dragonfly to mean both. But in general, if you said dragonflies, people think that you mean all of Odonata. And yeah, so I think they would, they would just think it was normal. They wouldn't, they wouldn't be sad.

[Alie Ward]

Their life cycle is really fascinating to me. The nymphs are bonkers, from what I understand, and they look so different from the adults. Can you tell me a little bit about what their infancy and adolescence is like before they become the dragonflies that we see around.

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah, for sure. Well, so females lay their eggs either in plant material. Endophytic oviposition, that's called. Or on the surface of the water or the mud. Exophytic oviposition, that's called.

[Alie Ward]

Damselflies endophytic in plants, dragonflies exophytic, not in plants.

[Jessica Ware]

In either case, the egg hatches when it develops. In freshwater, there's like a couple of examples of things that we think are semi terrestrial, where they've been found kind of like walking in the moss around freshwater, but in general they're inhabiting freshwater. There's a couple that have burrows, like some of the petillarity that I talked about, they actually have burrows. And there's Somatoclora and Emerald in North America that utilizes crayfish burrows. But like in general, the eggs kind of settle somewhere in the water column or down at the bottom of the, on the substrate. The nymphs hatch. And if they're juvenile damselflies, then they have these external gills that they use to breathe with. And if they're dragonflies, then they have these internal gills, these rectal pads that they use to breathe with.

[Alie Ward]

Yes, rectal gills. Nymphs can stick their dump trucks in the air and breathe through their butts. These ass gasping babies are hungry. No one is safe.

[Jessica Ware]

They eat each other. They eat other aquatic insects. So mosquito larvae, Dobson fly larvae, mayfly larvae, catafly larvae, things like that. They can also eat small fish like minnows, and they can eat tadpoles. And depending on the taxon, some of them develop in like six weeks. There's a migratory dragonfly called Pantella fluvescens. The global wanderer or wandering glider are two common names people use for it. And it develops really fast in like six weeks. In general, it kind of often takes advantage of like temporary water that pools up after rain. So it kind of makes sense it would be selected to develop kind of quickly. And then on the other extreme, there are things that develop over years and in some extreme examples, people have said decades, where the juveniles basically are in freshwater for quite a long time, kind of slowly molting and then becoming an adult. So in the arctic systems that we are doing a lot of sampling in, those juveniles are actually frozen in the wintertime and they freeze and thaw, freeze and thaw. Even in the temperate systems, like in northern Ontario, like where my nana lives, the lake freezes solids, right? So the nymphs are either burrowing down into the substrate or in part freezing. So just like for all Insects, right? There's these, like, rise and fall of hormones. So juvenile hormone, like those things kind of rise and fall, and then when the timing is right, the hormone levels are right, then they have their final molt to adulthood. And what happens in that case is they have a trigger to kind of crawl out of the water. And they usually cling to, like, some veggies or like a boathouse or a dock or like whatever thing that they can cling to. And then the adult kind of pulls itself out of this larval skin, which are called exuvia. I think in Europe they call them Imogenes. But anyways, those are kind of left behind. So often you can find exuvia or imagines kind of in the veg around fresh water.

[Alie Ward]

These exuvia, in my unasked for opinion, are gorgeous to behold. And if you look closely in the summer around lakes or ponds, you might find these papery, empty ghost shells of dragonfly nymphs. And they look a little bit like cicada molts, if you've ever seen one of those. And little insect husks get their name exuvia from meaning things stripped from a body. And I like to imagine that the young dragonfly was like felt raptured, just ascended to fly through the air and then left their exuvia behind like pants.

[Jessica Ware]

Then the adult has to take some time. Its wings develop in while they're crumpled up in these wing pads, while they're larvae or nymphs. And then when they become an adult, they kind of shunt their hemolymph out and they kind of stretch their wings out. They slowly dry and we call harden up when they're first emerged, a very soft body, very vulnerable. And then once they've hardened up, then they take off and they eat as much as they can. They build up fat stores, and then they're. They're adults and they just do things that adults do, which is mating, dispersing and laying eggs.

[Alie Ward]

Do they even eat as adults, or do they do all their eating as little hungry, hungry hippos under the water?

[Jessica Ware]

No, they eat a lot as adults. They do, depending on the Texan. Some of them have a lot of spines on their tibia and they actually are kind of like bringing food in towards their mouth as they're flying. Often if you see dragonflies, they do this behavior called hawking, where they'll kind of be flying. Often you see it like if you live in suburbia, like over, you know, a lawn or if you're near a meadow in a more Rural setting. You see them kind of flying often at dusk or in the middle of the afternoon. That's what they're doing, kind of gliding back and forth, just eating. And they have to build up quite a bit of fat stores. And they use those fat stores for their flight, which is really energetically expensive. But then also, like when they're mating, some dragonflies and damselflies are territorial and so they do these mating kind of dances or these flight competitions. And you need to have a lot of fat stores for that. Often what dragonflies will do is they'll. In damselflies is that they'll just fly until they use up their fat stores and then they just kind of drop into the water. They did. So in their best interest, they would be selected to kind of be constantly eating to keep their fat stores high.

[Alie Ward]

So they eat and they fly doing cardio until they get fatally shredded. And then they just have a burial at sea or at pond. I had no idea that they were out there hunting too. How long typically? I know it must range from like a day to like 10 years or something, but how long does a dragonfly live once it is an adult, how long is it out flying around?

[Jessica Ware]

So it's always around the same. So the juvenile stage can vary six weeks to maybe a decade, maybe two decades. Who knows? Right?

[Alie Ward]

That's bonkers.

[Jessica Ware]

But I think like five years would be like an oldish. And there's a couple of extreme outliers, but often they're one or two years, you know, three or four years.

[Alie Ward]

That's just the nymph stage, either from six weeks to a decade, but then.

[Jessica Ware]

The adult stage is usually like one hot summer. Right. So usually in temperate regions, it's like from May to maybe October. There's a couple of examples, individuals that were around for several months, but it's definitely not usually more than a year. And it would definitely be less than than a year in most cases. So the adult stage, they really have this like solitary goal of dispersing mating and laying their eggs. Like that's, that's their whole thing. They're not really doing growth or maintenance. Right.

[Alie Ward]

So it's like a longer adolescence and a shorter adulthood, essentially.

[Jessica Ware]

Oh yeah, for sure. With the exception of, like I said, the wandering glider or global wanderer, the pantelephanescence, it's six weeks development time and then it lives for a couple of months. So that's one where it's reversed. But in the majority of cases, the juvenile is a longer stage than the adult for a Lot of dragonflies. Damselflies.

[Alie Ward]

I feel like I know people with dragonfly tattoos. I know people who see dragonflies, as do you.

[Jessica Ware]

I have one gorgeous.

[Alie Ward]

How long have you had it?

[Jessica Ware]

Maybe 10 years or something like that. I've had it for a while.

[Alie Ward]

So Dr. Ware pushed up her long sleeve shirt and showed me what looked like a silhouette of a dragonfly. Of course, it was a beautiful artwork. So on brand, you had already been studying dragonflies at that point?

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah. Yep.

[Alie Ward]

You were in it. You're like, team Dragonfly.

[Jessica Ware]

Actually, I have a damselfly. I don't have a dragonfly.

[Alie Ward]

I was wrong. A damselfly tattoo. This was surprising.

[Jessica Ware]

This is an ebony jewel wing, Collopteryx maculata. But I picked this one because the wings themselves are, like, black in color. And so I thought it would be easy for a tattoo artist to do it without. Sometimes, like, the venation is very important. It's correlated with, like, flight behavior. So if they did the veins wrong on the tattoo, I would know that it was wrong and it couldn't fly right. So I was like, a little bit anxious about having a tattoo that it I was going to dislike afterwards if the venation wasn't right.

[Alie Ward]

So Colopteryx maculata means beautiful wing. And this ebony jewel winged damselfly has a slender, metallic blue green body, looks like a sports car paint job, and wings that look almost opaque, like a velvety black with subtly visible venation. That's what I was going to ask you. How many times do you see dragonfly tattoos and things in pop culture that are anatomically not right?

[Jessica Ware]

Well, most of the time people put really long antennae and dragonflies and damselflies have very, very, very small, almost like not visible antennae. They're very, very, very small. So if you have something with long antennae, it's usually an antlion or something like that. So a lot of people, they're like, oh, I have this dragonfly tattoo. And then they show it to me and I'm like, oh, it's an antlion or it's like a Dinraptera. But of course, I don't say that because that'd be rude. So I'm just like, oh, that's very cool. Because I think it's cool they want to get a. Not a tattoo, but if it has long antennae. I actually said that to my tattoo artist when he was doing this tattoo the first sketch. I was like, oh, no, no, no. Antennae gotta go. And they're like, but insects have antennae. And I'm like, no, dragonflies and damags. You wouldn't see them. They're almost like, no, we can't have them on there. I'm not gonna have a Neuroptera tattoo.

[Alie Ward]

Come on.

[Jessica Ware]

No, I mean, not that they're not cool, too, but I love that.

[Alie Ward]

That tattoo artist has probably thought about you every single time they've seen a dragonfly.

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah. He said he had just done a tattoo for his wife, and he was like, oh, thank goodness I didn't put long antennae on hers because she didn't want them. And I was like, yeah, it's very good. Very good. What about.

[Alie Ward]

What was your ambassador bug species? Was it a dragonfly or what got you out looking around for bugs?

[Jessica Ware]

Well, I spent a lot of time, like, near water because I lived in Canada, and my. We spent a lot of time with my maternal grandparents, and they lived on a lake like Muskoka. And so we saw a lot of dragonflies and damselflies, for sure, but I didn't think I was going to ever study them, to be honest. I was curious about them, but, like, we were kind of curious about the natural world, I would say, like, in general. But then when I went to ubc, I went to University of British Columbia for my undergrad, and I was going to do marine biology, but I ended up switching into entomology. My first undergrad experience doing fieldwork was working on mecistogaster, which is sister to that big one that I talked about, Megaloparapus. It's a damselfly, and it's. It lays its eggs in bromeliad plants. It was really fun, but I still was like, oh, this stuff is so cool. There's no way I could ever contribute to this because all the cool stuff has been done. There's no way. So I'll just go do something very practical and work on food security and maybe do biological control. So that's what I went to grad school to do. But then I ended up not really loving entomopathogenic nematodes as much as you think you would. You think you'd be like, wow, that's a page turner. Turns out, wasn't turning the page for me. And then, thank goodness, Mike May, my hero, my late advisor, unfortunately passed away last year, but he was one of the world's dragonfly experts and foremost odontologist. And I switched into his lab and he said to me, what are you talking about? There are so many unanswered questions for odonates. Like, so many. Like many, many lifetimes worth of work. To do. And his encouragement was really wonderful.

[Alie Ward]

That's so sweet. And so interesting how paths can change just in an instant from someone that you meet or from one thing that a person says. And that changed the course of the field just by encouraging someone to be like, no, hop in here. Yeah, we got a lot of questions.

[Jessica Ware]

I mean, Mike, I think, changed odontology. Well, he certainly changed the way that I even looked at science, because he was exactly that person that was always like, oh, you want to come here? Let me hold the door open for you? You know? And he made a community that everyone wanted to be part of, where everyone was able to participate. Like, if you like dragonflies, you're in. That's the only requirement is that you have to sort of like them. And I think the whole community was so much better for that philosophy. If that's your grounding philosophy. Everyone who wants to join can join. I mean, no wonder it's such a great community.

[Alie Ward]

Yeah. And what are odontologists studying? What are you looking at now?

[Jessica Ware]

It's a lot. I mean, it varies, Right. Mike wasn't wrong that there's so much left to be done, Right. So much that we don't know. With some collaborators. Seth I mentioned, John Vincent, Rob Paul, There's a few of us. We worked together with my postdoc Lacy and some graduate students. We're trying to get, like, the tree of life of dragonflies down.

[Alie Ward]

She says that by dragonflies, she means both them and damselflies, and they're working on specifically sequencing as many species as possible to figure out who is related to whom and where their tree of life branched in these different directions.

[Jessica Ware]

In my lab, I'm really interested in reproductive evolution. So the evolution of, like, male reproductive structures, female reproductive structures. Some people in other labs are interested in vision or, like, ops and pigments, or others are really interested in particular types of behavior or nymph or larval behavior. I guess it really varies. Like, you name it, somebody is working on it. Female storage organs, color, structural pigmentation, the chemical composition of wings, the nymphs, they, as you mentioned, look very different from the adult. And they feed with this thing called a labial mass, which kind of, like, is this mouth part that kind of shoots outwards and grabs the prey and then brings it in towards their mandibles. Well, that's terrifying. Sebastian Busa and others are, like, looking at the functional morphology of that structure. So I think, like, as you look globally, there's. There's a lot of people working on very, very cool questions. And I feel like they're all complementary. Like they all are fitting together to tell this story of the last 300 million years of evolution for this group.

[Alie Ward]

Is there a group text for.

[Jessica Ware]

I mean, kind of. There's like an ODIN at a listserv, I guess, and there's lots of Dragonfly groups, but there's like, a worldwide Dragonfly association, the wda. We have Dragonfly meetings every two years. And so that's a good chance for people to kind of come together. There's a black odontology group that has a lot of people from West Africa, but really people globally. There's this Sociedad Odenatologica Latin Americano, which is for Central and South America. And everyone collaborates together, which is wonderful.

[Alie Ward]

Can I ask you some questions from patrons about those facets?

[Jessica Ware]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Alie Ward]

These are listeners who know you're coming on. They have Dragonfly questions. Anything that comes up in terms of charity or anything associated with Mike, too, in his honor that you'd want to donate to.

[Jessica Ware]

Oh, that's very nice. Mike was the former president of the World Dragonfly Association. So was I. And so that might be a good one. That's a 501C. And the mission and goal is to really promote the study of dragonflies and damselflies worldwide. And so any donations that go to them help to. They have a journal that they publish, and then they also use it for funding for students to go to conferences. This Dragonfly meeting, which is so fun, it's every two years, so that might be a good one to donate.

[Alie Ward]

That's great.

[Jessica Ware]

Thank you.

[Alie Ward]

So each episode, we donate to a cause of the ologist's choosing. And this week, it's going to the World Dragonfly association in honor of Dr. Michael Love. May. Literally, this guy's middle name was Love, and I found his obituary, and it describes him as a fair, compassionate, and caring mentor, a scholar and a naturalist, but also a gentle, kind man who spoiled dogs, took children seriously, and loved his wife with great devotion. As a friend, he was amusing, tolerant, and loyal. As a father, above all, perceptive. And as a beloved husband, he was thoughtful and generous, a partner eager to share the world. So a donation will be made in his name to the World Dragonfly Association. Thanks to sponsors of the show. Okay, you know, sometimes you eat something and you're like, ah, feel so much better. And other times you eat a meal and you're like, I want to go nap on the couch, and I can't remember my own name. Or I need 10 desserts right now. That could be your glucose talking. My glucose is very loud. My insulin floods in response to sugar and then it crashes and I feel like garbage. But introducing Lingo this is a bio wearable. It's from Abbott and it tracks your glucose levels in real time. And then on an app it gives you insights into how high they went, how much they crashed, how well managed your glucose is throughout the day. So I tried Lingo. I have it on my arm right now and it's awesome for me I know that my blood sugar greatly impacts my life and I can look at that and see the data. I love that Lingo has science backed recommendations to eat in a way that works better for you personally. So to see how your body responds response to food and learn what you can do to improve your metabolism, try Lingo. It starts at 49 for a two week plan, no prescription needed and for a limited time you can save 10% on your first order with the code ologies@hello lingo.com the Lingo Glucose system is for users 18 years and older, not on insulin. It's not intended for diagnoses of diseases including diabetes. For more information please visit hello lingo.com I pride myself on being the friend that people text links to and they go is this real? And I go no. And I'm proud of that skepticism. And it's all also helpful when it comes to health hacks. I can spot a too good to be true health hack from a mile away. So can you. Ritual knows that every good skeptic deserves a multivitamin that exceeds our standards. They have a clinically backed essential for women 18 + multivitamin. It has high quality traceable key ingredients. I love that Ritual multivitamins are vegan, they're gluten and major allergen free. Also Ritual is a certified B corp and a female founded B corp. They hold themselves accountable to finances but also the health of people and our planet. I have a checklist every morning of things that I do. One of them is sit down with a cup of tea and schedule out my day. Another is honestly taking supplements because I find that my energy and my mood is better when I do personally and Ritual is the one that I take. They also have a nice minty flavor and the capsules look like lava lamps. I appreciate that as well. No more shady business rituals essential for women 18++ is a multivitamin you can actually trust and you can get 25% off your first month at ritual.comologies so start Ritual or add essential for women 18 plus to your subscription today. That's ritual.comologies for 25% off.

[Jessica Ware]

Down the hatch Looking for a meaningful holiday gift that can help deepen connections and even provide cognitive benefits? Choose Rosetta Stone Rosetta Stone offers immersive language learning courses designed for long term retention. Flexible learning options fit into busy schedules and there's even a feature that provides pronunciation feedback. Today, listeners can visit rosettastone.com pod50 to take advantage of an incredible holiday Special on Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your holiday offer [e-mail] pod50 did.

[Alie Ward]

You know adults with financial literacy skills.

[Jessica Ware]

Have 82% more wealth than those who don't? From swimming lessons to piano classes.

[Alie Ward]

As parents we invest in so many.

[Jessica Ware]

Things to enrich our kids lives, but how much are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight, you can teach your kids essential skills like earning, saving and investing, giving them the tools for financial confidence. This investment costs less than an after.

[Alie Ward]

School treat at Starbucks. Start prioritizing their financial education today with Greenlight. Invest in their [e-mail] podcast the holidays.

[Jessica Ware]

Are all about sharing with family meals, couches, stories, Grandma's secret pecan pie recipe.

[Alie Ward]

And now you can also share a cart.

[Jessica Ware]

With Instacart's family carts.

[Alie Ward]

Everyone can add what they want to one group cart from wherever they are.

[Jessica Ware]

So you don't have to go from.

[Alie Ward]

Room to room to find out who wants cranberry sauce or whether you should.

[Jessica Ware]

Get mini marshmallows for the yams or collecting votes for sugar cookies versus shortbread. Just share a cart and then share.

[Alie Ward]

The meals and the moments. Download the Instacart app and get delivery.

[Jessica Ware]

In as fast as 30 minutes. Plus enjoy free delivery on your first three orders.

[Alie Ward]

Service fees and terms apply. Okay, let's dip in your questions. Damsels, dragons, flies patrons. You too can submit questions, even audio questions to get your voice on the show by contributing to patreon.com ologies it starts at a dollar a month. Now this first question comes from patrons Hope J and first time question asker Turner Pierce. So you mentioned you were looking at reproductive structures and Hope J and Turner Pierce wanted to know is there sexual dimorphism? Is there a way to distinguish a male and female dragonfly?

[Jessica Ware]

Absolutely. So what you'll do is when you're looking at the dragonfly, you want to look at the base of the abdomen so males Are unique in that they have two sets of reproductive structures. So they have a penis at the tip of their abdomen from which sperm is ejaculated, and they put it into a second penis which is at the base of their abdomen. There are two of them. And this second penis is called the vesicus fermalis. It's a sperm pump. And they use that second penis to transfer the sperm into the female. So it's indirect sperm transfer. But they also use that second penis to displace the previous male sperm. Because females can store sperm, she has both short term and long term sperm storage organs, the spermatheca and the bursa copulatrix. So males use the secondary penis to either scrape out the previous male sperm or like pack deeply in the previous male sperm, like displace it in some way and then they transfer their ejaculate.

[Alie Ward]

Just gonna kind of move this out of the way. Like if you went to a potluck and you threw away someone else's casserole or just hid it in a cabinet.

[Jessica Ware]

And so you can look at it under a scanning electron microscope. And it's very cool because a lot of variation on a theme like selection has acted. So lots of different species have slightly different things. Some look like a scoop, some looks like ragged claws. Like it really varies. Ouch. But if you don't have a microscope, a scanning left hand microscope and you're just holding a dragonfly, or if you're just up close looking at it, if it's perched somewhere, just look at the base of their abdomen near where it meets the thorax. And if there's a bump there, that's the penis. Right. Because the females have a very smooth ventral part of their abdomen, there's no ridges, there's no bumps there. So if you see something that looks like a little bump or a little notch kind of sticking out at the base of the first, second, third kind of segment of the abdomen, then that's the secondary penis. And you know you have a male, there's other things that you sometimes not all things have color dimorphisms, but some do. In a lot of damselflies, there's variation in the wing color pattern between males and females. So this tattoo that I have is Colopteryx maculata. And the males have completely black wings, but the females, it's dusky and not completely black. So there's like variations like that. And then in a lot of males they actually have like a waxy, what they call a prunescence, like a waxy secretion that coats their whole body, that they get with age, with maturity, and that gives them a bluish hue. So often males and females, for example, the eastern pondhawk is bright green as a male and female. But over time, as the males get older, they secrete this wax over their body and then they end up looking completely blue.

[Alie Ward]

It's like graying at the temple. Sort of like a silver fox almost.

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah, blue fox, yeah.

[Alie Ward]

Oh man. What about but colors in general and many of you, including Rowan Tree, Kyla C. Mouse Paxton, eating dog hair for a living. Earl of Gramlkin, Rachel Prosteco, Charlotte Parkinson, Jesse Meeks, Adam T. Burns, Rachel Fallon, Arie Fox Popsicle Emperor Flozatron, Brian Shenanigans, Hope J. Devon, Jay Shea, Jackie G. Nicole S. And Elta Sparks also asked about this as well as Turner Pierce wanted to know, are they all colorful and iridescent? Doesn't that coloring make them more appealing to predators? Alyssa Hoff Sidoni Silver A bunch of different people wanted to know why are they so colorful? Alyssa asked, are there colors for a specific reason for mating, for predator scare away reasons?

[Jessica Ware]

Those are good questions, I would say. So first of all, are they all colorful? No, not really. Most of them are. There's two types of color. There's structural color where there's like bumps on their cuticle and when light bounces off of it, it's perceived as a color. Often the metallic colored ones are like that and that's a structural color. And with the ones that have structural color, it's very cool because in the fossils that we have, not all, but in some of the fossils that we have, the compression fossil also has the same bumps and rugosities. So then when the light bounces off of it, it looks like it's metallic green, which is very cool. But then there's also just pigment granules in their epithelial cells. And some dragonflies, that's how their coloration is, is from these pigment granules. And the pigment can vary, right? Some have melanin, some have omicrons. Like there's vary in various types of pigment. And so there are some things that fly at night, like the shadow dragons is the common name of this genus, Neurocordulia, that flies when it's too dark to kind of read a newspaper. And they are not very colorful. They're very drab, as you might expect because they're flying at night. Right. Dragonflies don't have great vision at night. They're very good at seeing things in the day, but not as good at seeing things at night. And so I guess there's just been selection for a loss of the bright color. And they're kind of drab and brown in color.

[Alie Ward]

So those metallic greens and blues aren't pigment based, but rather the shape and the texture of the chitin that makes up their exoskeleton. Just like how many blue bird feathers are structural. And you may have learned that in the Plumology episode about feathers, which we'll link in the show notes. But other colors are pigment based. Kind of like the color of our hair and skin.

[Jessica Ware]

Then in terms of why they're colorful, a lot of the patterns that you see are for sexual signaling. The patterns in their wings might be for signaling, male signaling to other males, males and females communicating to each other. But then there's also color patterns that relate to thermoregulation. Males and females are able to kind of have their pigment granules migrate up and down in their epithelial cells to give them a bright color or a dark color. And the idea is maybe that the dark color allows them to absorb more heat and the bright color to kind of shunt more heat. There's some idea that maybe this waxy prunescence is to prevent desiccation. It's an anti aging technique. There are others. Plethema slydia is a good one. The white tail, where the abdomen itself is actually like a kind of a bright white color. And some people have suggested that perhaps that's to allow it to kind of. It's a percher and it often perches out in the sun. And so that allows it to kind of shunt a lot of heat out of its body. So I think there's a combination of factors in terms of whether or not it can make you more visible or less visible to predators. I mean, Amanda Wispel did her thesis on this damselfly called Argya apicalis, which actually changes its color right after mating. Males actually change their color to being in dark phase versus bright phase. And she argued that it had a lot to do with predation. Right. So that allows them to be less visible.

[Alie Ward]

And this is also a flex.

[Jessica Ware]

So I mean, I think there's. There's a lot of possibilities and some of those might be happening at the same time. So more than one of those things could be happening at the same time. Thermoregulation, sexual signaling, and avoidance of predators.

[Alie Ward]

Going back to reproduction. So many people, Jesse Crawford said, what's the deal with the way they mate? Which is a broad question. But what's the deal? Jesse Says, I've seen what I assume is the male with the end of his tail inserted into the back of the female's head. What's going on? How are they actually getting it on? Devin Naples wants to know, when I see two dragonflies fluttering about attached to each other, are they doing what I think they're doing? Are they making whoopee? Dragonfly. Sexy times. A lot of people want to know what's going on there. Key Lime Pie, Raniel Mandre Bjorn, Fred Berg, Rachel Guthrie, Mallory Skinner, Sophia A. Clover and Alyssa Hoff. Who asked, do they do butt stuff? I see them stuck together by their butt. Cheesemonger wanted to know why do they appear to keep banging while flying? Seems fun, but Jennifer Frow said, why not land and do that with storm? Adding, seems like a hard way to do it. Let's get into it.

[Jessica Ware]

So the heart shaped wheel that you see of the males and females together, we call the copulatory wheel. And that indeed is usually males and females doing mating, like as broadly defined. Right. Often what they're doing while they're flying around isn't necessarily the male ejaculating. Right. Because remember, males make the sperm in the tip of their abdomen in that first penis, put it into the sperm pump. But then before any sharing of the genetic information, they do this sperm displacement. So the scraping, right? Oh, that, yes. So when males want to mate with a female, they have these appendages at the tip of their abdomen called the anal appendages or the claspers, and they grab the female behind the back of her head, on the back of her thorax. In some damselflies, there's actually pits in the back of the female's thorax and the males fit their appendages into these pits. And it's kind of like a lock and key mechanism. In a lot of odinates, it's not like that. The males just kind of grab wildly. Sometimes they do damage the eyes because the males can walk on the back of the female's eyes and you can see females with damage to the back of her eyes because the Ommatidae are fragile and they can break with the tarsi and the tarsal claws kind of walking on them.

[Alie Ward]

So this copulatory wheel, it looks like two dragonflies locked in kind of a heart shape, but actually it's the female of the species getting her head hooked and maybe her eyes clawed while mating. I don't want to talk about it or think about it today, but at least female dragonflies have options.

[Jessica Ware]

So the male clasps a female and then the female has a choice, right? She can bring her abdomen up to the secondary genitalia at the base of his abdomen for the sperm transfer or not. And sometimes you see males holding females and she does not bring her abdomen up in theory, with the lock and key mechanism, if the key doesn't fit in the lock properly, then maybe the female won't bring her abdomen up because it's a sign that it's not the right species. Right. Those are kind of species specific locking keys. But like I said, not all odinates have a locking key mechanism. So when the female and the males enter this copulatory wheel, they can either stay perched somewhere or they can fly together. Sometimes they fly together where both of them are flapping their wings. But in other species is only the male flaps his wings, which really affects his flight behavior, right. Sometimes males and females, after the sperm is transferred, they let go of each other and the male will either be like, peace, I'm out. No contact guarding. Or the males will do what's called non contact guarding where they'll stay near the female while she lays her eggs and they'll chase away other males. Because of course if another male grabs a female, he'll just scrape out the nail sperm, right? And he wants to ensure interpreternity. That's called non contact guarding where they just chase away other males. And then the other option is contact guarding. And that's where the males and females stay attached to each other right through as the female's laying her eggs.

[Alie Ward]

So they can piece them out. They can be a bouncer to the female, kind of on the lookout or they can just stay attached.

[Jessica Ware]

There's a couple of wacky exceptions called interrupted tandem, where males will like let go of a female grabber again, let go of a female grabber again. But those are. It's more common that it's either like no guarding whatsoever, non contact guarding or this contact guarding, this tandem.

[Alie Ward]

So how long does it take between receiving the sperm and laying an egg? Are they able to do it like quicker than you could get a pizza or are they. Is he guarding her for like days?

[Jessica Ware]

Oh yeah, like quicker than you can get a pizza for sure. People used to think that maybe like the last sperm in was the first sperm out to that she would fertilize her eggs with. We don't think that's necessarily true anymore. But she's able to lay eggs pretty much right away. Some dragonflies have their eggs ripen in batches. This is work that Camilla Koch in Euroncellian did they lay their eggs in batches. But other dragonflies, the majority of them, have their eggs ripe all the time. So as soon as she has sperm, she can lay her eggs. She just needs to find suitable habitat. But that's often why you see dragonflies mating at water, because then they're right there and then the water's right there and they can lay their eggs.

[Alie Ward]

What about her ovipositor? Is that something that you can also see if you happen to have a dragonfly land on you?

[Jessica Ware]

Sure, it depends on the dragonfly. So if it's a damselfly, they all will have an ovipositor. If it's a dragonfly, in the Darner family, or the Aethnidae, the petillaritae, which are the petal tails, or the Cordula gastridae, they have pretty honkin. They're called spike tails because their ovipositor is really long.

[Alie Ward]

Imagine a skinny little fingernail at the tip of your behind.

[Jessica Ware]

It's like, hello, those ones. Then you definitely will see the ovipositor. It looks like a small little blade, in some cases serrated. It's a series of gonapophysis that kind of fit together in this interlocking device. It's like a little knife that cuts a hole in plant material to put the eggs in. But if you were to catch the most species rich, two groups are the Libiluloidea and the Gomphydae. The club tails are the Gomphydae and the Libiluloidea are things like skimmers and emeralds. And both of those groups have lost their ovipositor. So you wouldn't see it. You would just see, like if you flip them over, you would see what's called a vulvar lamina, kind of just like a little flap and they squirt out their eggs, like in a clump from that little flap.

[Alie Ward]

They don't even need an ovipositor. They're like, it's fine.

[Jessica Ware]

No, no ovipository. Because they're not using plant material. So you really only need the ovipositor to put it into plants.

[Alie Ward]

And then do those eggs hatch in the plants and then crawl and find water and then live their life as adolescents when they are in plant material.

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty fast. They don't lay them up in a tree or anything like that. Like, they're laid right at the water surface. And then you can sometimes even see on plants the scars where the eggs have been laid.

[Alie Ward]

Oh, that's awesome. So while usually damselflies are more delicate looking, the largest of the odonates is a damselfly, so the smallest is actually a dragonfly. So that's a little flippy floppy. And skimmers are dragonflies, like the bright red ones you might see. But skimmers are called chasers in some countries now, darners again have that long ovipositor and are super fast flyers. But now you can just go get a bug book and start kind of gawking at all of them. But if you are less into outside and books and more into inside and screens, we had media questions from Guido Fairy Mama, Bee and Dad, Aussie Scott Hanley and Amanda Loves Kurt Questions about pop culture. Oh, yeah, someone asked. This is very specific. Claire Ritchie said. Kerry Colby voice A dragonfly.

[Jessica Ware]

A dragonfly. If you eat the entire thing, I.

[Alie Ward]

Will give you a thousand dollars. I swear to you right now. I can't believe you just said that. I eat you guys.

[Jessica Ware]

I can eat a bug.

[Alie Ward]

RuPaul's Drag Race fans need to know, are dragonflies edible? Apparently. Have you heard anything about drag race and eating dragonflies?

[Jessica Ware]

No, but I'm here for it. And I will just say dragonflies are absolutely edible. If you were ever to eat an insect, that's the one that I would eat. I mean, I've eaten a lot of insects in my lifetime, but dragonflies are. Their thorax is just pure muscle, right? So they actually don't have a lot of fat. They're like always flying, right, burning their fat stores and their muscle, their thorax, the entire thing is just one, like just blocks of muscle. So they're a high protein thing. If that's the like, if it was me and I was wanting to eat something, I would break the wings off, I would probably take the abdomen off because I don't need that. And I would just eat the thorax and you would have a little protein snack.

[Alie Ward]

It's like shrimps, sort of. Kind of shrimpy. Maybe a little bit if it's mussel. I don't know.

[Jessica Ware]

Maybe. I mean, I often think of the insects taste kind of nutty. I actually don't eat shrimp because I'm allergic to shrimp. So maybe that's what shrimp tastes like. Like, maybe chimp tastes like nuts. I don't know.

[Alie Ward]

Okay, so I looked into this for us, Ann. Yes, you can eat dragonflies, but check the species first. Try not to eat an endangered one. Now, as we discussed in our entomophagy anthropology episode about eating bugs, the most humane way to kill them is to lower their temperature. You could put them in the freezer. And in general, people say eating some raw bugs should be fine. But if you can cook them, do that. And for more on how and why humans do eat dragonflies, you can see the pretty new 2024 study, Edible Dragonflies and Damselflies. Order Odonata as Human, a comprehensive review which states that edible insects are rich in nutritional value with protein, fat, carbohydrate, vitamins and minerals at levels that meet human nutritional requirements. And that folks who have eaten dragonflies say they taste a lot like shellfish due to the external skeletons, while others describe the flavor as a meaty vegetable and a bit nutty, especially when roasted. But the study does warn that some of the same allergens in shellfish are present in other invertebrates, like bugs. So if you're allergic to shellfish, be careful there. Also, heavy metal toxins from water sources could be present and accumulate. So if Odonata are to be eaten in big quantities, farming is the way to go. And again, cooking it better in case there's bacteria. I don't know, I'm not your doctor. But be smart about it. Don't just pluck one off a piece of fabric on a reality show and raw dog it for money straight down the gullet. Now, I read one culinary message board that said they are, in fact, like a soft shelled crab, pretty darn tasty. And if you ask me, better for the planet than a bunch of cleared rainforests filled with sad farting cows.

[Jessica Ware]

So you could and should eat them.

[Alie Ward]

And. Well, we'll get to conservation in a second. But a few people, Guido Ferri, Bjorn Fredberg, Laurie Pemberton wanted to know, in Laurie's words, ornithopters in Dune, could that be a real thing? There are helicopters that look like dragonflies in Dune. I'm not sure if you've seen them, but you watch Dune and you're like, those are huge dragonflies. Yeah, they're bonkers. Do people send you so many articles and pictures of them when Dune movies come out?

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah, absolutely. Yes, one, yes. And there also was the name of a spacecraft that didn't look like a dragonfly, but that was named after Dragonfly. And my mentions got all messed up because of all these dragonfly things. And I was like, oh, my gosh, everyone's talking about dragonflies. No, they're talking about space.

[Alie Ward]

Okay, So I looked this up. According to NASA, Dragonfly is this quadcopter drone designed to explore the chemistry and the habitability of Saturn's moon, Titan. And I'm thinking when they're building it, I hope they refer to it as a naiad, because how cute would that be? Like a little nymph. Also, if it's like its Odonata namesake, then it would be powered by mosquito larvae and worms. And if it's a baby, it could collect them by unhinging its hellmouth jaw. Which dragonfly naiads do. They toss it out like a javelin while it's still attached to their face. And then some of them have pinchers that capture their fuel and then bring it back to their mouth. It's bonkers. It's what Odonata nymphs can do. And it is terrifying and inspiring. Which brings us to a question about technology from patrons Ron Sam, Jesse Crawford, Kleb Jamie and Thomas Paine, who wanted to know, are dragonflies a model for future human flight?

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah, I mean, humans have for a long time taken inspiration by dragonfly flight. You know, dragonflies do a lot of the things that we want to do when we try and design aircrafts that are, you know, stealthy or energetically inexpensive. Right. You know, ratio, long and thin wings are really good for long distance flight and for fast flight. The turning radius is affected by the shape and camber and pitch and yaw. All the things that we have to worry about when we think about flight. Dragonflies have been, you know, presumably having selection act on that for millions of years, hundreds of millions of years. So I think humans have looked to dragonfly flight quite a lot. But then certainly as inspiration for sci fi. I mean, it's hard to imagine a better kind of model for something that is very good at targeted flight. They do interception style predation, so they're able to kind of maneuver very well in and amongst vegetation. They're able to catch prey very quickly. I mean, it's kind of an ideal.

[Alie Ward]

And speaking of that, gnomes, Lorimer, how does their flying work? And can they just hover? So many people wanted to know, first time question asker Sarah Filo wanted to know, why do they fly like that? So chaotic and unpredictable. It seems like they turn so fast and I blink and then they're gone. A bunch of you wanted to know this and I will say your names very swiftly. Cuddle. Cuddle. Isabel Leclerc, Rachel G.J. wyatt, Olivier Calas, Lauren Shingley, Felipe Jimenez, Nathan Marion, Kalina Anderson, Theda and Odysseus Flora Boerwinkle and Lori Pemberton, who asked what's the top speed a dragonfly can reach? Oliver Collis wanted to know how many times a minute do they beat their wings? Do we know? Are they, like, near hummingbirds in terms of how fast they beat their wings? But yeah, how. What's going on with the flying?

[Jessica Ware]

So it really depends on the texa. So some things fly very high up in the air column. They fly very fast. There's, like, reports of darners that can fly 30 miles an hour, for example. And then there are other things that barely flutter, you know, that never leave the pond from which they emerge. And we tend to think of them as being quite poor flyers. People tend to think of damselflies as being kind of poor flyers and dragonflies, although there are things like that megaloprapus, that big giant helicopter damselfly, the one that lays its eggs in tree holes. And it flies. I've seen it fly. It's really hard to catch. I mean, it looks like it's just barely there when you try and catch it. Man, it is really very, very difficult. Better luck next time. Presumably, like the ancestor to dragonflies, to modern dragonflies, was probably not a very good flyer, we think, just based on its wing shape, size and the wing venation patterns that we see. But then over time, dragonfly flight got quite good. And we think that some of the selection probably was because initially there was nothing in the sky except for odonate like things, right? But as the sky started to fill up with species and there was, like, birds and frogs and pterosaurs and things like that, there would have been selection on them to be able to maneuver very well. And there would have also been selection to kind of have optimized speed and performance. And so part of what we see when you look at the dragonfly wing, the wing venation is very noticeable, right? Something that people notice. Tiffany made those Tiffany lamps based on dragonfly wings, right? But the more dense the wing veins are, the stiffer the wing is, and the sparser the wing veins are, the more bendy it is. But there's also a bunch of this tissue called resilin, which is a really spongy tissue that makes it kind of has elastic properties. There's small spines and hairs that kind of are different parts of the wings to add more rigidity or less rigidity. There's this thing called the pterostigma, which is this small little dot of color at the tip of the wing, which we think acts to kind of stabilize the main chord of the wing against vibrations during flight. It's kind of like a little cantilever, like A little weight at the tip of the wing.

[Alie Ward]

So that's what those dragonfly dots are for. And Dr. Ware says that they have two sets of wings, one in front, one in back, the forewing and one's the hind wing. And how wind passes over the forewing, depending on its angle, affects also obviously how the air moves over the hind wing, which gives them such control. And that allows them to glide, to fly backwards, and to attain hunting speeds up to 35 miles per hour or 55 kilometers an hour. You are so lucky you're too big for them.

[Jessica Ware]

So all of that has been optimized by natural selection really to kind of move air in a certain way, to kind of maintain lift and decrease drag and energy expenditure.

[Alie Ward]

Patrons Susan Singley, Chrysalis Ashton, Lexi Cable, Patricia Evans, Paige, Flora Boerwinkel, Lena Carpenter and Genevieve Bertrand had evolutionary inquiries. People are talking about movies where dinosaurs hanging out with like dragon sized dragonflies. True, false.

[Jessica Ware]

Well, I mean everyone wants to talk about dinosaurs being around for a long time, but they're like a blip compared to dragonflies and diamondflies. Cause dragonflies and dinner flies are very old, right? So these griffon flies were flying in the Carboniferous, so 350 million years ago. So this is before T. Rex. And all these things that you see with dragonflies flying on, there certainly were dragonflies for as long as there were dinosaurs. There were dragonflies with a couple of exceptions for modern dragonflies. If we date them to be around 225, 230 million years old. There were some small little wee dinosaur proto dinosaurs that were kind of coming up then. But in general, like the Carboniferous flying Griffin flies would have been around and they're like each wing was about 37 centimeters, so maybe 70 centimeters, about 2ft, you know, so they're, they're. I would, I don't. I mean that probably looked like a dragon when it was in the sky. I mean that's pretty big. But it's not the size of a Komodo dragon. Certainly not. But they were definitely around as you see that kind of rise of reptiles, right? The age of reptiles, as that was kind of starting to happen. They would have already been these odonates or proto Odonates in the sky.

[Alie Ward]

What sound? What sound do you think that would make?

[Jessica Ware]

Yeah, I mean, so the sound of dragonfly wings is so interesting, right? And there actually are these kind of like spines and ridges on the, what they call the leading edge of the wing that some people have said for pentelovescens, this wandering Glider. Actually, some of those ridges and spines are to decrease the amount of sound that they make. So that way they can avoid being heard by predators and sneak up on their prey more easily. But dragonfly wings are like, if you. I used to have one on my desk, actually, but you can, if you ruffle them, they definitely make a noise. Most definitely. But I think they would be selected to try and make as little sound as possible. Right. If they're going about their business.

[Alie Ward]

A few patrons, including Colby Evans, Carol Young, Devon and Curtis Takahashi, who wanted to know, in Curtis's words, where on the food chain are they? Who eats them? Do bats eat them? Birds eat them. Apparently they're delicious, right? Could be delicious.

[Jessica Ware]

Bats eat them, birds eat them, lizards eat them, frogs eat them, fish eat them, mammals eat them. There's a lot. We eat them, humans eat them. Like not just me, but like many, many cultures of people that eat insects eat dragonflies. So yeah, I think they're really like a very common good source of protein.

[Alie Ward]

This is a very informed question from Rich Thomas Simpson said, if we puny humans have three opsins in our eyes, rgb, do we have any idea what the dragonflies have that a whopping 30 different visual opsins use them for? Seems like overkill. Aside from seeing a wider spectrum, what more are they getting? Are they seeing sounds? Can they see the future? Can they see who views their tiktoks? What's going on? Okay, so just a quick side note. An opsin is a protein that binds to light reactive receptors which underlie vision. Humans have three cone type cells that help us see color and rod cells help us detect light. And for more on this in a lot of detail, we have a whole ophthalmology episode that, that's great. It's all about eyes. But yeah, back to dragonflies. Do they have 10 times the opsins that we do?

[Jessica Ware]

So they have a lot of opsins and there's been a lot of expansions in kind of like whole families of whole different kinds of opsins. Yeah, I don't know that it's overkill because there is a lot of color and they're using my guy, they're using this to communicate. Right. So males are communicating with males, males are communicating with females. They're doing it for species recognition. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why selection would have maybe acted on this. And we do see slight variation in opsins, for example, in the things that fly at night versus the things that are diurnal. So I think that if you look across the amount of color that you see in odonates, it's huge. And the families that have the most range of color are also the families that are the most species rich and Rio Futahashi. Seth Beibe There's a few labs that have worked especially like in a lot of detail on opsis and I think what the conclusion is that color is a really important part of the story of the evolution of odonates and so of course we might expect that their opsins are part of that story too.

[Alie Ward]

What about their brains? A few people wanted to know, yes, like Flora Boerwinkle, Dave Cannon, Tanya Magic Fingers wanted to know what's their brain situation like in Flora's words.

[Jessica Ware]

Well, I mean they, I guess they can do a lot with what they have. So let's say mentioned they're able to do interception style predation which is pretty remarkable. You know, that's what lions do and they're able to do that with a relatively small number of descending interneurons.

[Alie Ward]

So this is when a predator tracks its prey and guesses where it's going to go next and then heads that way to intercept it and catch it. So they're doing some insect physics and math up there.

[Jessica Ware]

But they have like optic lobes, they have of a mushroom body which is where we think there's a lot of memory, a lot of where the memory storage happens in odonates. But like all insects they basically have kind of, it's more like clusters of ganglia, you know, that we're working with. We're not talking about a centralized brain per se. I mean they do have a tentorum they do have in their head they do have these big major lobes and they do have this mushroom body and nerves that descend from the head. But we, I wouldn't think of it like a mammal brain. Just think of it more like, you know, these clusters of ganglia that work together for sensory input.

[Alie Ward]

So them's got brains, they got small ones. They got brains though. Patron Keely Chavez submitted an audio question via Patreon.

[Jessica Ware]

Hi Ellie. Keely Chavez. This may be my favorite ology ever. Wondering why there are so many color morphs of different species. Makes it really hard to pick out the right one on inaturalist. Thanks.

[Alie Ward]

Do you have any tips for people who are out dragonfly spotting and how to identify different dragonflies?

[Jessica Ware]

That's a tough one for sure. So we do. I mean there are a lot of good field guides out there. So give like props to nothing beats a book, you know, having a book in your Hand because they could do kind of break down the color plus wing venation or head or other features that you should look for. Because sometimes color can be misleading. Like I mentioned, the eastern pond hoc is green except for when it's not. When it's a male, it's old, it's blue. You know, there are also some damselflies where there's males that are a certain color, there's females that are a certain color, and then there's females that kind of change their color to look like males to avoid sexual harassment, literally like.

[Alie Ward]

In drag or like traveling solo wearing a full glue on beard. Just leave me alone. And you know what else is fun? The paper Faking death to avoid male coercion. Extreme sexual conflict resolution in a dragonfly which describes the moorland hawker dragonfly who deposits her eggs, flies away and if trailed by a male, she crashes dramatically into vegetation. She lies motionless upside down for as long as it takes. And then when the coast is clear, she gets on her merry way. She's like, later sucker.

[Jessica Ware]

So those can make it very complicated. So for damselflies, for that reason, for those of us like myself who are more studying dragonflies, I often think, oh geez, it's just a lot of small blue things for damselflies because that's a lot of what they are like a lot of small blue things that are kind of hard to tell apart. Often what you want to look for for damselflies, for species or even sometimes the genera is you want to look at the anal, what they call the anal appendages or these claspers that males use. And you need to use have a hand lens or like a jeweler's loop that you can look at them. And the shape of them are very distinctive, right? So those can be diagnostic. But sometimes I would say that's very hard to take a picture of that for inaturalist, you know what I mean? And so if you're using inaturalist only you would miss those characters and those characters will probably really help you get to the species id. So I would say if you can get like a small magnifying glass or something to take with you when you're looking at it. And look at the bum, look at the tail end, you know, look at the tip of the abdomen, that will allow you to kind of look at the overall shape. Sometimes they're notch, sometimes they're hooks, sometimes they're little tooth on the anal appendages. And those things are really important diagnostic characters.

[Alie Ward]

So damselflies, you gotta really get up in there. Dragonflies.

[Jessica Ware]

It's a little more casual for dragonflies. Often you can look at the wing venation and you don't need to do anything fancy. You know, just hold the dragonfly in your hand and look at the. I hold them by the wings and then just look at the wing venation. And all skimmers have a shape that looks like a foot in their wings. So the wing venation actually informs the shape of like a little knee, a shin, a toe, a heel, you know, and then a calf. So you kind of get used to the patterns of things so that when in doubt, with the color, that can kind of be your backup.

[Alie Ward]

Nice. So get into that venation.

[Jessica Ware]

Venation's where it's at.

[Alie Ward]

Don't get a tattoo with the wrong venation. Don't do it. Last question from listeners. And I'm glad they asked this because same, same. Chelsea, a wicked. A lot of people, by the way just said they're very stoked about this. Emmy the stranger said, dragonflies are fairies. Prove me wrong. Allie Edith wanted to know. They seem magic. Are they magic? Emily Stauffer said, when I was little, I was told it's good luck when lands on you. That's definitely true, right? Some people asked Amanda loves Kurt and Chelsea Wilk also asked about people passing away. Amanda says, I've often heard it said that dragonflies are signs from loved ones who have passed on. Where did the symbolism come from? And I thought this was a great question from Kate. First time question asker said, is there any lore around them that might be linked to some behavior or a historic event? It feels like they have symbolic meaning across cultures. They do seem a little magical. And Kate is a first time question asker and a biology student in Miami University's Project Dragonfly program.

[Jessica Ware]

Ah, odontologist, I can't wait to see you at the next dragonfly society or world dragonfly meeting. Well, this is what I would say is that for as long as there, I mean, humans were a very short footnote in the story of dragonflies. Right. So we've never had been in a world where there wasn't dragonflies. Right. So humans as such have evolved with dragonflies always present. So depending on which part of the world you're in, there's a lot of cultural significance for dragonflies. Sometimes there's negative connotations, sometimes positive. And it really varies with kind of culture. My grandmother was, is British, she's from Yorkshire. So she taught me that if you fall asleep next to the water darners, those aishnids that they would sew your lips shut. Right. That does not happen. They do not do that. But it's because people saw the ovipositor and they thought it was like a darning needle. Right. So I would count that as a negative association. Right. But then I have heard from lots of people that they feel like they're, you know, a good sign, that it's a sign of a loved one who's passed away. I have heard that before.

[Alie Ward]

And for a deep dive, you can always see the delightful study Insect An Interdisciplinary Approach Fostering Active Learning in the journal American Entomologist, which cites the Zuni tribe of what is now New Mexico as the origin of the folklore that dragonflies are a messenger between God and humans. But the Dene people, often called, or once called the Navajo, had associations with dragonflies, signifying balance in life. Like most things, especially bugs, their value depends on who you ask, really.

[Jessica Ware]

In some cultures, they're considered to be very good luck. In other cultures, there's a story in East Asia where if they get caught in your hair, that it's a sign that mental illness is coming. That would be like an example of a negative one. But then there's examples from, like, ancient Japanese texts of an emperor that was bit by a horsefly, and a dragonfly came and ate the horsefly because the they. They do eat horseflies. And so one of the names for the islands of Japan was Island of Dragonflies. And some of the samurai armature actually had on their helmets, had dragonflies on them, and had dragonflies kind of etched in some of the armor that they wore because they were considered incredible predators and really good, successful hunters. Right. That would be a positive connotation. So I feel like it really varies probably through space and time, Right. What people have thought about. About dragonflies, I like to think that they're good luck. I mean, at the very least, they can be good harbingers of what's happening in the environment, Right? So, like, there's a red one that comes around in North America in, like, the autumn, and it's called Sympetrum Petra because it perches often on rocks and things like that. And if you see that, you know, autumn is coming, right? There's Annex Junius is one of the first ones to fly. If you see it, you know, spring is here, so you can kind of use those as good markers. So you didn't know. You weren't able to tell that the seasons any other way. You could use dragonflies, for sure. Plus, you know, that there's fresh water nearby. If you see dragonflies and damselflies, probably there's water pretty close by and it might very well be clean with the asterisks. There are some dragonflies and damselflies that are not very picky and they'll be in swill, but there's a lot that really like fresh water that is clean, and that could be a good sign, too.

[Alie Ward]

And do dragonflies bite? You mentioned horse fly biting. Do dragonflies. Do they bite people? Patrons. Chuck Merriam, Han the Bee, Heather Crane, Flora and the Fawn, and Amanda Loves. Kurt needed to know this. And the wren, you know, had the statement. I just came here to say that dragonfly naiads plague my nightmares. And when I was a kid, I saw one eating a pollywog. So, no offense, but what the fuck? Uglybaby Mish. The fish also told the tale that when I was, like, 10 at summer camp, this dragonfly made its way over to us, and one of the kids flipped out. She was so scared, which only made the dragonfly more attracted to her. Why? Why are people afraid of them? And Sophie asked, am I right to be afraid of them? I feel like they bite, but I think I'm wrong.

[Jessica Ware]

They don't. I mean, if you pick up a. If I picked up a dragonfly and held it close to me, then it will use its mouth parts and try and, like, be like, what's going on? And sometimes it feels like a pinch, but it's. It's not because it's trying to bite me, because it can't eat me and it won't try and eat me. Its mouth parts kind of fit together, and then the mandibles are on the inside, and it would be very ineffective to try and eat me.

[Alie Ward]

You don't want this.

[Jessica Ware]

But sometimes they'll do that just to try and get away, right? And so some people will say, oh, I was bit by a dragonfly. And I say, what were you doing? So? Well, I picked it up. I'm like, well, then there you go. It's not biting you. It's just trying to get away, right? I don't think that counts. I mean, they don't come to you like, oh, I want to try and bite that human. They would never do that. It would be only if you happened to pick it up and you were holding it and it was getting perturbed. Then they'll try and, like, like, like, let me go.

[Alie Ward]

And I said I would get to this. But how are we doing? How are they doing? Matt Sakato Wants to know how can we protect them. Bonnie Rutherford want to know if mosquito dunks harm dragonfly and damselfly larvae in essentially like, how are they doing?

[Jessica Ware]

So like all insects, we think that they're probably facing insect decline, right? And the insect decline that we're seeing is like higher rate than we've ever seen in the history that humans have been keeping records. So we should be, if you like, wondering how concerned should you be? I would say gravely, incredibly intensely concerned. Right. Oh dear. What we don't know is whether or not the pattern is the same in the Arctic or in the temperate regions or in the tropic regions for dragonflies and dandelions. There was some early reports that maybe because we actually had done an okay job putting regulations for fresh water in some parts of the world, that maybe they actually were doing better now than they were in the 70s, for example. But whether or not that means they're doing as well as they were in 1900 or pre industrial revolution, probably not. What we know is that populations are changing in terms of their geographic distribution. Things that used to only be found, for example, Annex Imperator was found in Southern Europe, northern Africa and now it's established in Sweden. So they're expanding their ranges. What that means for the taxa in the Arctic, whether they're going to be out competed, we don't know. We know that they need fresh water, right? So as you lose fresh water, that's a risk, of course, for dragonflies and DIYs, because they cannot breed in salt water. They need fresh water. And as we pollute, you know, we continue to pollute and change and divert water. That's a big part of what humans do. We're very, we're, we seem to not realize that we have very, very little fresh water on this earth. And all life depends on it. Like every single living thing depends on fresh water. And we have almost none of it. Almost none of it is fresh. Almost all of it is salt. Right. So we really need this precious, like, resource and dragonflies and damselflies really need this precious resource. But we treat it like it's renewable, like there's an unlimited amount and there really is not. So that's something to say, yeah, you should probably be very worried. And we, and they need our help, just like all insects need our help. But freshwater insects in particular because. Because without fresh water, they're not able to breathe, right? That's it. Population game over, as you know, people would say. So building freshwater sources can be important. You know, having a water feature in Your yard can be important. I don't mean like a tub that breeds a bunch of mosquitoes that only one or two dragonflies can be in, because that's not really what we're looking for, but like an actual, like a pond. Like people can build like water features of little pond in their yard. That can be really helpful. Voting for people who care about fresh water, whether even your town council. I mean, often people think that it's a national issue and not a local issue. It's absolutely a local issue. You probably have fresh water within a few blocks of where you live, whether you live in an urban setting or in a rural setting. And so voting for people who are going to protect that fresh water is really important. That has a really big impact. And I think that in general, just getting people to realize that. That freshwater insects are important food for everything, right? For birds, for fish, for frogs. We kind of really need them more than I think people realize.

[Alie Ward]

What's the hardest thing about being a dragonfly expert?

[Jessica Ware]

That's a good question. I don't think there's much that's hard about it. It's kind of a blessed life. And if anybody complains about this job, I promise you, probably they go to bed with a smile on their face. And they're just doing it performatively because academics feel like they have to complain. There's not a lot of bad things being an odontologist, you know, I mean, you get to be outside, it's a hot day, you're near fresh water, which means you're guaranteed to go for a swim. The dragonfly community has this thing where we often go for and get ice cream after you do collecting. It's like a thing that dragonfly people do. So there's usually almost always ice cream. There's a lot of cool questions that are not yet to be answered. There's a lot of room for discovery. The collaboration between people, whether you're from Nigeria or Guyana or Japan or northern Canada, like there's room for collaboration with everybody. And people I think are really good team builders in this business compared to other insect groups that I've worked on where it was very competitive. Dragonflies does not seem like that. So if someone told me this was a tough job, I would probably be like, really real talk, be honest with me. And then they, I'm sure, would be like, yeah, you're right, this is a pretty great job.

[Alie Ward]

Do you have a favorite aspect of it? Do you love, like field work, like early morning fieldwork days? Or do you love like getting back and getting data crunched. Like, is there a part that you love the most?

[Jessica Ware]

I think, I mean, I really do like it all. I really love doing fieldwork. I love being out at freshwater. I mean, that was kind of what got me interested in it anyways, was just being near the lake all the time, seeing dragonflies land. And that part is still just like what field work is. But sometimes it's very cold. Like when we did the. We were in the Arctic last October, drilling, you know, cutting holes in ice at minus, you know, 30 degrees or something, something like that. And there were times when it didn't feel as fun, but it was still fun, you know what I mean? Like, even like the base level of like, oh, I'm not sure is still like Stratosphere is above any job I've ever had in terms of enjoyment. But even like, aligning DNA is fun. Looking at their genitals under the microscope is fun. Making the phylogeny is fun. Working with collaborators, you know, is fun. So I think the whole, the whole shebang, it's a pretty great job. I feel so lucky that I get to do it.

[Alie Ward]

Thank you so much for talking to me about dragonflies for so long. I'm so excited to talk to you.

[Jessica Ware]

Thanks for inviting me.

[Alie Ward]

So ask some daring questions to delightful dragonfly experts because look at all we learned. And for more on Dr. Jessica Ware, please see her socials in the show notes and follow her. Tell her that she's awesome. And next time you see a dragonfly, tell her, hey, I know about you. I know about your butt and your eyes. I like you. Thank you for listening. We're Ologies on Instagram and X. I'm Allie Ward on both. We have swear free episodes called Smologies available for free. Just look for smallogies at the link in the show notes or wherever you get podcasts and subscribe. Spread the word. Ologies Merch is [e-mail] thank you to Aaron Talbert for admin in the Ologies Podcast Facebook group. And thank you Avileen Malik for making our professional transcripts. Thanks to Kelly Dwyer for making the website. Noelle Dilworth is our lovely scheduling producer and worked for years to schedule it. Susan Hale is a great friend and managing director of Ologies. Jake Chaffee is an editor, always a very cheery help. And lead editor with astounding maneuverability herself is Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. Nick Thorburn made the theme music and if you stick around to the end of the episode. I tell you a secret today it's that it's 5:09pm on November 5th. That's right. I record these like at the last minute. And it's election night in America. I'm in pajamas, I have not showered, I do not smell good, and tomorrow's my frigging birthday. And so tonight a few friends are coming by to watch the election results and have pizza. I'm not doing great. Tuesdays are already a sprint to the finish. Birthdays are weird because everyone's nice to you and you're like, ah, it's too much. And election days are just white knuckle shit shows. And my intestines, people are oppressing. My hands are like a virgin on a homecoming date. I'm just sending this out saying, hey man, let's spend time and space with our minds and let's hope for the best. America, I believe in you. Get it together, do better. From here on out on a lot of things, so love y'all. Okay, off to shower. Bye bye. Pachydermatology, Cryptozoology, Litology, Technology, Meteorology, Olfactology, Maplology, Serology, Selenology.

[Jessica Ware]

It's almost like you're the Dragonfly. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult.

[Alie Ward]

Life skill to teach?

[Jessica Ware]

Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending. With real time notifications, kids learn to.

[Alie Ward]

Earn, save and spend wisely.

[Jessica Ware]

And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money. With guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast. Do you ever watch TV and think, wow, I'm really good at this? You're right. With rewards on sling watch, watching 30 minutes of TV daily gives you chances to win up to $10,000 in cash and other monthly prizes. Sign up for Sling or stream for free with Sling Freestream to get rewarded for watching TV. Sling lets you do that. Visit sling.com to learn more and get started. No purchase necessary for it. We're prohibited by law. Visit sling.com for more details.