Ologies with Alie Ward

Episode: Serpopsychology (WHAT’S CREEPY?) with Frank McAndrew

Release Date: October 1, 2025

Guest: Dr. Frank McAndrew, Professor Emeritus of Psychology, Knox College
Theme: Exploring the science of creepiness—What is creepy? Why do certain people, places, and things give us the chills? How do culture, evolution, and personal differences shape our responses?

Overview

This episode dives deep into the phenomenon of “creepiness”—what it is, why we experience it, and how it’s shaped by evolution, culture, and individual psychology. Host Alie Ward is joined by Dr. Frank McAndrew, an experimental psychologist who pioneered the academic study of creepiness. Together, they unravel why dolls freak us out, why clowns are so reviled, what evolutionary purpose creepiness may serve, and how cultural norms and personal biases influence who or what we find creepy. Listener questions fuel lively discussions on topics ranging from the uncanny valley to beauty standards, intuition, and even scammer vibes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Creepiness & Its Scientific Roots

• Origins of Serpopsychology:
  • Alie had to coin the term “serpopsychology”—serpo (Latin for “to creep”)—as there was no established ology for the study of creepiness. (00:00)
• Why Study Creepiness?
  • Dr. McAndrew started noticing the frequent use of “creepy” in everyday language, but found no existing literature or studies on the subject.
  • "I was just blown away. There was not a single study, not even one, ever done on creepiness." – Dr. Frank McAndrew (05:00)

2. What Makes Something Creepy?

• Creepiness vs. Scariness:
  • Creepiness is about ambiguity and uncertainty, not direct fear.
  • It’s the “precursor to scariness”—a state of feeling uneasy because something’s just off, but you’re not sure if you’re in danger. (07:00)
  • “Creepiness is all about uncertainty.” – Dr. McAndrew (07:07)
• Evolutionary Purpose:
  • Hypervigilance in ambiguous situations helped our ancestors survive (“It’s better to overreact than to be dinner.”) (09:03)
  • "People were selectively bred, so to speak, to be cowards in situations like this." – Dr. McAndrew (09:31)

3. Discerning Creepiness—People, Places, and Things

• Study Methods:
  • Participants rated hundreds of images/stories for creepiness, confusion, and scariness.
  • Creepy images: dark places, unsettling twins, bakers making pies with human faces, etc. (14:08)
• Innate vs. Cultural Influences:
  • Many fear triggers appear universal (threats, dark places), but some are learned through culture (e.g., “The Shining” making twins creepier) (15:04)
  • Dr. McAndrew leans toward creepiness being “mostly innate.” (15:04)

4. The Creepy Clown Phenomenon

• Clowns as Creepiness Archetype:
  • Clowns rated #1 creepiest occupation in McAndrew's study, followed by taxidermists, sex shop owners, and funeral directors. (17:38)
  • "Clowns break all those rules… You can't really tell what they're feeling… so we’re on our guard against him." – Dr. McAndrew (21:10)
• Historical Events Amplifying Fear:
  • John Wayne Gacy (“killer clown”) and horror movies like “It” cemented fear of clowns in popular imagination. (25:12)
• Clowns as Unpredictable:
  • Unpredictability and rule-breaking heighten creepiness, especially outside expected contexts (e.g., seeing a clown at night in your yard). (22:41)
• Clown Backlash:
  • Dr. McAndrew was targeted by professional clowns upset with his findings and media coverage. (19:03)

5. Gender and Creepiness

• Men Perceived as Creepier:
  • Across genders, people found males significantly creepier than females, likely due to perceived threat/aggression.
  • "You’re more likely to have something bad happen to you at the hands of a man than a woman." – Dr. McAndrew (16:10)
• Sexual Threat / Social Rules:
  • Creepiness often linked to perceived violation of social or sexual norms, especially for women. (16:10)

6. Listener Q&A: Intuition, the Paranormal, and Culturally Specific Creepiness

• Creepiness & Belief in the Paranormal:
  • Those who believe in ghosts are more likely to be creeped out in ambiguous contexts. (31:07)
  • "If you think you have psychic abilities, you might be priming your brain for some creepiness." – Dr. McAndrew (32:11)
• Ghosts & Subjectivity:
  • Dr. McAndrew doesn't believe in ghosts but acknowledges people’s sincerity in experiences. (34:15)
• Entertainment and Creepiness:
  • We seek out safe “rehearsals” for danger in horror movies and haunted houses for adaptive reasons. (36:57)
  • "You’re learning what you can handle and what you can’t." – Dr. McAndrew (37:45)
• Overconsumption of True Crime:
  • Too much exposure leads to overestimating risks (news about murder or crime) due to the availability heuristic. (38:52)

7. Uncanny Valley & Robots

• AI, Lifelike Dolls, and the Uncanny Valley:
  • Humanlike, but not-quite-human, robots/dolls/images create conflicting subconscious and conscious reactions—categorical ambiguity. (44:01)
  • "Our caveman brains aren’t prepared for things to look so human but aren’t human." – Dr. McAndrew (44:01)
• Rooted in Evolution:
  • The unease may relate to evolved discomfort around corpses, with a hierarchy of disturbingness from insects to freshly mutilated human corpses with sudden movement. (46:35)
• Annabelle and Haunted Objects:
  • Creepiness of haunted dolls compounded by urban legends and recent eerie events (Annabelle’s supposed death of a handler in 2025). (47:30)

8. “Creepy Guy” Behavior and Self-Perception

• Self-Awareness:
  • Most people regarded as creepy don’t realize it, often due to social awkwardness or desperation, not malice. (51:12)
  • "We seem perfectly normal to ourselves." – Dr. McAndrew (51:12)
• Neurodivergence & Social Bias:
  • Social awkwardness may trigger creepiness detection, but context and disclosure can reduce discomfort; research is only beginning to consider these factors. (52:42, 53:09)
• Representation Matters:
  • Diversity and exposure combat harmful biases around “normal” behavior and appearance. (54:29)

9. Phobias, Idiosyncratic Triggers, and Confirmation Bias

• Why Unique Phobias?
  • People have idiosyncratic phobias (globophobia/balloon fear), often rooted in past negative experiences or sensory sensitivities. (55:41)
• Confirmation Bias:
  • We remember the times when our “creepy feeling” was right, reinforcing beliefs about gut feelings, being watched, or full moons affecting behavior. (58:43)

10. Looks, Beauty Standards, and Social Leeway

• Attractive People Get Away with More:
  • Good looks reduce perceived creepiness due to “halo effect,” while unattractiveness may trigger the opposite “horns effect.” (60:48)
  • "You can get away with a lot more if you’re good looking." – Dr. McAndrew (60:48)

11. Eye Contact—Powerful and Culture-Specific

• Social Cue Amplifier:
  • Eye contact heightens the impact of all social signals—positive or negative; too much or too little can both cause discomfort. (62:08, 63:45)
• Cultural Differences Matter:
  • Eye contact norms vary widely around the world. (62:08)
• Gender Considerations:
  • Women are less often seen as creepy for sustained eye contact due to general perceptions of threat. (64:58)

12. Fashion, Goths, and Chosen Creepiness

• Posing as Creepy:
  • Subcultural styling (e.g., goth) is less about threatening others and more about signaling nonconformity or group belonging, but context is key. (65:32)
  • "I don’t think that style is creepy if you’re in a society that understands it’s a fashion." – Dr. McAndrew (65:47)

13. Creepiness in Digital Life & Scams

• Online Scammers:
  • The “something is off” sensation with scammers echoes our evolutionary response to ambiguous, potentially dangerous situations. (66:49)

14. Research Challenges & Rewards

• Hardest Part:
  • Ethically recreating realistic creepiness is difficult; most studies rely on images, stories, or imagined scenarios. (68:41)
• Most Rewarding:
  • Telling stories and exploring intriguing social questions as “the creepy guy” in academia. (69:31)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Research is me-search. Psychologists study things that are issues in their own life.” – Dr. Frank McAndrew (04:13)
• “Creepiness is all about ambiguity, the uncertainty. Once you’ve figured out there is something to be afraid of… that’s where the scary thing comes in.” – Dr. Frank McAndrew (08:25)
• “Clowns break all those rules… The clown has this smile painted on his face, but I’m guessing he’s not really happy.” – Dr. Frank McAndrew (21:10)
• “You’re more likely to have something bad happen to you at the hands of a man than a woman.” – Dr. Frank McAndrew (16:10)
• “Our caveman brains aren’t prepared for things to look so human but aren’t human.” – Dr. Frank McAndrew (44:01)
• “We seem perfectly normal to ourselves. I don’t think we’re very good at detecting [creepiness] in ourselves.” – Dr. Frank McAndrew (51:12)
• “You can get away with a lot more if you’re good looking than if you’re not.” – Dr. Frank McAndrew (60:48)
• About scammers:
  “I think that’s exactly analogous to the predator in the woods waiting to get you… it’s this uncertainty that is creating [the creepy feeling].” – Dr. Frank McAndrew (66:49)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to creepiness & research origins: 00:00–06:43
• Defining creepiness vs. fear: 06:43–08:41
• Evolutionary logic for the “creepy” response: 08:41–10:56
• Research methods (images, stories): 13:22–14:43
• Culture vs. innateness in triggers: 14:43–15:35
• Clown fears & history: 17:38–22:41
• Listener questions: intuition, ghosts, psychic abilities: 30:19–33:24
• Uncanny Valley & AI images: 43:08–46:35
• Creepy guy at the bar, self-perception, and neurodivergence: 49:11–53:09
• Phobias and confirmation bias: 55:41–59:53
• Attractiveness and the “halo effect”: 60:48–61:39
• Eye contact and cultural variation: 62:08–64:58
• Goth, fashion, and self-selected creepiness: 65:11–66:36
• Online scammer gut feeling: 66:49–68:31
• Challenges of researching creepiness: 68:31–69:51

Additional Takeaways for the Creep-Conscious

• Most “creepy” behaviors are ambiguous violations of social norms—not outright threats.
• Beauty standards unconsciously influence our perception of threat or strangeness.
• Overexposure to crime and horror can increase anxiety and warped risk perceptions.
• Transparency and representation reduce harmful biases against neurodivergent and marginalized individuals.
• “Creepiness” often reinforces in-group/out-group thinking; challenging your own biases is crucial.

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