Ologies with Alie Ward

Strigiformology (OWLS) Part 2 with Dr. R.J. “Rocky” Gutiérrez

Release Date: November 13, 2025
Guest: Dr. R.J. Gutiérrez, Strigiformologist
Episode Focus: An in-depth listener-driven Q&A on all things owls: their unique anatomy, behavior, talons, intelligence, roles in culture and mythology, conservation conflicts (especially the spotted vs. barred owl dilemma), and how listeners can help protect owls.

Episode Overview

In Part 2 of Strigiformology (OWLS), Alie Ward and expert strigiformologist Dr. Rocky Gutiérrez take on a flurry of listener questions, diving into the weird, wondrous, and sometimes thorny world of owls. The episode covers the mechanics and marvels of owl biology, surprising owl behavior, the complexities of culture and folklore, heated conservation issues (notably, barred vs. spotted owls), how humans impact owls (good and bad), and advice for owl-friendly living.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Owl Talons, Toes, and Gripping Power

• Owl Foot Anatomy & Function:

  • Owls possess four talons; one outer toe is reversible, allowing them to grip with a “2 forward, 2 back” (zygodactyl) arrangement or a “3 forward, 1 back” depending on need. (04:28)
    • “The outer toe is reversible, so they can put two forward and two back—when they come down, they can, boom, grab on and have a much more secure grip.” — Dr. Gutiérrez [04:28]
  • Talons are adapted to prey size and species.
    • “Great gray owls have relatively small talons because they take small mammals, whereas spotted owls have really big talons—they’re catching huge animals in relationship to their body size.” [05:04]

• Gripping Strength:

  • Small owls, like burrowing owls: ~1.1 lbs of force to unclench talons.
  • Large owls, like great horned owls: “It takes about 30 pounds of pressure to pull them apart.” (08:48)

• Rescuing Window-Stricken Owls:

  • If a bird hits a window: place it gently in a box or paper bag in a quiet, dark place for 4–5 hours.
  • Avoid force-feeding or over-handling; call wildlife rehabilitators when possible. (07:24)

• Preventing Window Strikes:

  • Use window films, grids, or hang decorations to reduce bird collisions, which cause billions of fatalities worldwide annually. (07:24)

2. Owl Attacks & Interactions with Humans and Pets

• Owl “Attacks”:
  • Territorial and defensive behavior, not malice or play.
  • “Some owls are very, very aggressive… if you get near their young or nest… they attack you.” [13:43]
• Hat Stealing:
  • Myth: they steal hats for fun.
  • Reality: they hit at heads, sometimes scraping hats off during territorial swoops. (14:32)
• Pet Protection:
  • “Spiky” jackets for small dogs may deter, but best to leash pets, as large owls have surprising lift. (11:03)

3. Fascinating Owl Behaviors

• Groups = “Parliament”:

  • “That’s the correct term.” (20:58)
  • Origin: Book of St. Albans (1486) by Dame Juliana Berners, but rarely used by scientists in the field.

• Viral “Owl Legs”:

  • Illusion of long legs due to feathering; adaptation likely to prevent prey bites and for cold protection in snowy owls. (24:51)

• Owl “Dancing”:

  • Threat displays and feather-shaking can look like dancing; head movements relate to their eyesight (motion parallax). (25:54)

• Do Owls Recognize Humans/Are They Smart?

  • Intelligence comparable to other birds; not exceptionally “wise” nor particularly “dumb.”
    • “They’re just birds and… predators. That stare is not deep thinking—it’s thinking, ‘Can I kill you?’” [23:33]

4. Burrowing Owls & Unusual Nests

• Burrowing Owl Behavior:
  • Only one true burrow-nesting owl—wide distribution from Canada to Argentina. Utilizes existing burrows (prairie dog, gopher), can adapt to human-made tunnels/PVC pipes. (28:01)
    • “They’re just cool little critters… I’ve seen them in virtually every South American country I’ve been in.” [28:47]

5. Owl Migration Patterns

• Migration & “Eruptions”:
  • Some owls migrate or make nomadic “irruptions,” with sudden surges south when northern prey collapse (e.g., snowy, great gray, and hawk owls). (18:40)
    • Memorable story of seeing 27 great gray owls and 3 hawk owls in three hours during an irruption. (19:19)
  • Others, like the spotted owl, do short-range seasonal shifts.

6. Culture, Folklore, and Meaning of Owls

• Worldwide Myths and Symbolism:

  • Mixed associations: wisdom (Zuni, Greco-Roman, Hindu gods’ transportation), evil/omens (various Indigenous, Jewish myth, many African cultures).
    • “I found it almost impossible to buy an owl carving in many African countries because of their associations with bad omens.” [30:11]
  • The longstanding image of owls as death omens may stem from their nocturnal habits, eerie calls, and head-rotation abilities.
  • Story: permission to research owls on Mescalero Apache land given with strict directive not to report findings—cultural aversion to owls. In contrast, neighboring Zuni Pueblo view owls as wise. (36:37)
    • “It’s pretty amazing how different these things are.” [34:25]

• Modern Pop Culture:

  • 2010s “Owl Pendant” fashion phenomenon among millennials—“It was too much.” (48:18)

7. Listener Questions: Barred Owls vs. Spotted Owls (“The Great Owl War”)

[50:33–62:21]

• Background:

  • Barred owls, native to eastern North America, moved west over the past century due to ecological changes (habitat modification, fire suppression).
  • Barred owls are larger, more aggressive, and diet-generalists.
  • Spotted owls: old-growth specialists, now endangered, at risk from habitat loss and barred owl encroachment. (51:03–54:09)
    • “They actually drive the spotted owl out of their territories and sometimes will kill them.” — Dr. Gutiérrez [51:03]

• Conservation Dilemma:

  • Spotted owls have declined up to 80% in two decades; the barred owl threat is now considered greater than habitat loss.
  • Solution: culling (removing/killing) barred owls to protect spotted owl populations.
    • Highly controversial: opposition from animal welfare groups, but supported by most mainstream conservation organizations due to ecosystem-wide impacts. (54:09–60:03)
  • “If you’re going to maintain spotted owls, you’re going to have to remove barred owls… or you have to be willing to lose your small owls and other endangered species.” [61:25]
  • Dr. Gutiérrez addresses public misunderstanding, media bias, and “bullshit asymmetry principle,” noting how misinformation shapes public and political perception more than scientific evidence. (56:18–62:21)

8. Helping Owls: Practical Action & Advocacy

• Say No To Rodenticides:
  • Secondary poisoning from rodenticide kills owls and other raptors; especially problematic near marijuana grows and agriculture. (63:25–65:51)
    • “Don’t use rat poison… it’s a serious problem.” [65:51]
• Habitat & Food:
  • Use nest boxes, plant owl-friendly flora, keep properties inviting for their prey (safely).
• Responsibly Viewing/Hooting at Owls:
  • Avoid hooting/calling to owls during nesting season (may draw parents away, exposing chicks), minimize disturbance. (67:06–68:29)
    • “You have to be very, very judicious about calling owls… It’s my tiny contribution to reducing harassment.” — Dr. Gutiérrez [68:29]
    • Owls’ hearing is incredible—they can often hear whispered or quiet greetings from afar. [68:52–70:04]

9. Owl Intelligence, Parenting, and Personalities

• Are Owls Smart?
  • No more or less than other birds; their “wisdom” is legend, but mainly they are supremely skilled, focused predators. (23:27)
• Owl Parenting:
  • Covered in Part 1; notably attentive but, as with all birds, behaviors are mostly driven by survival instincts.

10. Memorable Field Stories & Personal Highlights

• Dr. Gutiérrez’s Most Memorable Owl:
  • Favorite owl: spotted owl (due to research focus and personal connection).
  • Most coveted to see: long-whiskered owlet of the Peruvian Andes (second smallest owl in the world, about the size of your hand). (73:01)
• Fieldwork Glory:
  • “What has made this the most wonderful journey is the students that I've worked with... seeing them create something wonderful and go on to have fantastic careers. That was the penultimate reward.” [74:02]

11. Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On owl feet:
  • “It’s like four stilettos going right into the body—or eight, actually, with both talons!” — Dr. Gutiérrez [05:04]
• On owl “stupidity”:
  • “They’re just birds… staring at you, thinking, ‘Can I kill you? Can I eat you?’” [23:59]
• On the conservation dilemma:
  • “No one wants to kill a barred owl, but if you are going to maintain spotted owls, you’re going to have to remove barred owls. … If our self-interest is in maintaining biodiversity…the choice is clear to me.” [61:25–62:21]
• Alie’s favorite closing moment:
  • “I can talk about owls all the time. All day, and I guess all night, too.” — Dr. Gutiérrez [74:46–74:54]

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Segment | | ------- | ------------------------------------------------ | | 03:28 | Listener Q&A begins | | 04:28 | Owl feet and talon mechanics | | 07:24 | Window strikes & rescue advice | | 11:03 | Pets, spiky vests, and owl attacks | | 13:43 | Territorial aggression and “hat theft” | | 15:28 | The “Owl Did It?” Staircase homicide case | | 18:40 | Migration, irruptions, and travel tales | | 20:58 | “A parliament of owls”—terminology origins | | 22:54 | Are owls wise? Intelligence, memory, & myth | | 24:51 | “Owl legs”: The long-leg illusion | | 25:54 | Owl dancing, disco moves, and “cute” behaviors | | 28:01 | Burrowing owls: biology and behavior | | 30:11 | Owl mythology and culture worldwide | | 50:33 | Barred owl vs. spotted owl conservation crisis | | 63:25 | How to help owls: no poison! | | 67:06 | Should you hoot back? Ethical owl-watching | | 70:44 | Dr. Gutiérrez: favorite/least favorite things | | 73:01 | Favorite owl and his joy in mentorship |

Resources, Books, & Causes Mentioned

• International Owl Center (Part 1 Charity)
• North Coast Environmental Center (yournec.org)
• Death by Talons (Titty Smith, 2023): Book on the “Owl Did It?” case
• Bless Me, Ultima (Rudolfo Anaya): On owl symbolism in Hispanic Nuevo Mexico
• American Birding Association code of conduct: [Link in show notes]
• Further listening: Fire ecology episodes with Dr. Gavin Jones & Dr. Amy Christensen

Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a panoramic view of owl wonder—their evolutionary oddities, fierce beauty, tangled history with people and myth, and the painstaking, emotionally charged work of saving them. Dr. Gutiérrez’s humility, field wisdom, and advocacy shine through as he reveals both the joys and gut-wrenching dilemmas faced by conservation scientists. Listeners learn not just to marvel at owls, but how to be more thoughtful co-inhabitants on this shared planet.

Notable Quotes in Summary:

• “You're not a true owl person unless you get nailed.” — Dr. Gutiérrez [10:59]
• “[Owl wisdom?] They’re really just thinking, can I kill you? Can I eat you?” — Dr. Gutiérrez [23:59]
• “It’s a wicked problem... but if our self-interest is in maintaining biodiversity... the choice is clear to me.” — Dr. Gutiérrez [61:25–62:21]
• “Trust me, [owls] have incredible hearing. It’s 100 times better than us.” — Dr. Gutiérrez [68:52]

For More:

• Visit Alie Ward’s Ologies: Strigiformology page
• Follow @ologies and Dr. Gutiérrez (check show notes for more research links)

This summary is designed for anyone curious about the nexus of science, culture, and conservation—and for anyone who’s ever heard an owl’s hoot echo through the dark and wondered: who, indeed?