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Omni Talk Retail
Old Navy Hits The Radar, San Diego Bans Digital-Only Coupons & Amazon Debuts AI Agents | Fast Five
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In this week’s Omni Talk Retail Fast Five news ro…
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- [00:01]
San Mazinga
The Omnich Fast 5 is brought to you by the A and M Consumer and Retail Group. The A and M Consumer and Retail Group is a management consulting firm that tackles the most complex challenges and advances its clients, people and communities toward their maximum potential. CRG brings the experience, tools and operator like pragmatism to help retailers and consumer products companies be on the right side of disruption and Miracle, the catalyst of Commerce. Over 450 retailers are now opening new revenue streams with marketplaces, dropship and retail media and succeed. With Miracle, you can unlock more products, more partners and more profits without the heavy lifting. What's holding you back? Visit Miracle.com to learn more. That's M I R A K L.com and Simbi Simbi powers the most retail banners in the world with today's only multimodal platform for in store intelligence. See how Albertsons, BJ's Spartan Nash and Wakefern win with AI and automation at Simbi Robotics.com and Infios. @ Infios, they unite warehousing, transportation and order management into a seamless, adaptable network. Infios helps you stay ahead from promise to delivery and every step in between. To learn more, visit infios.com and Clear Demand pricing shouldn't be guesswork. Clear Demand's AI powered pricing data and optimization solutions help retailers stay competitive while protecting margins, Smarter pricing, stronger profits. Clear Demand makes it happen. Learn more@cleardemand.com omnitalk and finally, Ocampo Capital. Ocampo Capital is a venture capital firm founded by retail executives with the aim of helping early stage consumer businesses succeed through investment and operational support. Learn more@ocampocapital.com hello, you are listening to Amitax. Retail Fast Five ranked in the top 10% of all podcasts globally and currently the only retail podcast ranked in the top 100 of all business podcasts on Apple Podcasts. Retail Fast Five is a podcast that we hope makes you feel a little smarter, but most importantly, a little happier each week too. And the Fast 5 is just one of the many great podcasts that you can find from the omnichalk Retail Podcast Network alongside our Retail Daily Minute which brings you a curated selection of the most important retail headlines every morning and our Retail Technology Spotlight series which goes deep each week on the latest retail technology trends. We are back. It's April 9, 2025. I'm one of your host San Mazinga.
- [02:29]
Chris Walton
And I'm Chris Walton and we're here.
- [02:31]
San Mazinga
Once again back from spring break to discuss all the headlines from the past week, making waves in the world of omnichannel retailing. Chris, I feel like before we get the show started, we need to have a moment of silence for one of your all time favorites who recently passed last week, Val Kilmer. How are you doing?
- [02:51]
Chris Walton
Yeah. And this loss, and I appreciate you allowing me to take the time here. You know, it was a. It was a very sad week in the Walton household, as it was for America, I'd say, and too, because, wow. You know, I. I was surprised at how much I saw about Val Kilmer going through my feeds. Could be, because those are all personalized to me. I don't know. But, you know, Val Kimmer holds a very special place in my heart. I've told this story on the podcast before in our old podcast studio, both when we had the actual physical podcast studio space and in my old podcast studio as well back home. You know, we used to have a picture of Val Kilmer in his flight suit in behind me in every podcast as well. So he's been as much a part of Omni Talk as anyone. Anne. And, and for those that I've told this story before, believe it or not, he was my doppelganger as a young man. Doesn't look like that so much anymore, folks. But at one point, I had the entire Stanford University campus convinced I was his brother. So, Val, 65 years young, we're going to miss you. You'll forever be Iceman to me. And I don't. What does Val Kilmer mean to you? And I'm curious.
- [03:54]
San Mazinga
I mean, clearly not as much as he means to you, but.
- [03:58]
Chris Walton
No, he doesn't mean that much to anyone as much as he means to me.
- [04:01]
San Mazinga
And honestly, like, swear to God, yeah, I mean, it was sad. He's been sick for. I mean, like, I mean, ever since Maverick 2 came out. Maverick 2? Is that what that was? Top Gun Mav. No, Top Gun two, I don't even know. See, clearly it's. Yeah, Top Gun Maverick. Seeing him was. Was just a sad reminder of heart.
- [04:22]
Chris Walton
That was heartwarming too, wasn't it? So what is your forever iconic Val Kilmer role before we get to the headlines? And what was your. Is it. Is it Iceman? Is it Jim Morrison? Batman. Okay, all right, Batman, I guess, Yeah.
- [04:36]
San Mazinga
I mean, I can understand Doc Holliday. I'm just here to support you and your time of need right now, Chris. That's really the biggest role that I can play right now when it comes to the news of Val Kilmer.
- [04:48]
Chris Walton
Thank you. And like, I said it has been emotional. It's been an emotional moment for me and America. And America weeps for Val.
- [04:55]
San Mazinga
It does. Well, Chris, we're going to talk about somebody else now. Can we move on? Are you going to be okay?
- [05:01]
Chris Walton
Yes. And I think I can move on for the interest of the show. I can put my tears aside. I can wipe them away. And because for those news to the podcast, it's time to present our Omnistar Award. And our Omnistar Award is the award we give out each month in partnership with Corso to recognize the top omnichannel operators out there. Not the pundits, not the so called experts, but the real life retail operators making a difference in their organizations. Corso's AI copilot coaches retail leaders to optimize store performance at every level, transform retail operations from data overload into data powered. This month's award goes to Anu Narayanan, president of Anthropology, Women's and Home. This month's winner. And again, this is another one. This one holds a special place in my heart because believe it or not, Anew was the very first person I met when I started my retail career. I walked into the gap back in 1999 and there was Anew. She was. I know, right? She was my designated, what they called mentor at the time. And she clearly has gone into big onto bigger and better things than mentoring me. And she's been absolutely kicking, kicking some tail at anthropology. So we salute her for this award.
- [06:12]
San Mazinga
Yeah, she's just one of the absolute greats. I feel like everybody that I, every time I see her, she's so willing to give her time to talk and catch up. And you know, everybody that you meet who's worked with or who's been on stage with or who knows a new just has incredible things to say about her and the work that she's been doing for our industry in her time at the Gap, at anthropology and everywhere in between. So congratulations Anew. This one's for you.
- [06:41]
Chris Walton
Yeah, right. And at one point I was talking to her to getting on the show. So I got to go back to her and see maybe now, maybe now we have her on the show for some, some type of segment. But all right, in this week's Fast5, we've got news on Instacart introducing something it calls will call delivery. Old Navy partnering with Radar to roll out its RFID solution. San Diego banning digital only store coupons. Because we all know what San Diego means. Amazon's release of a new AI agent that will shop through third Party sites for you. And David Dorf of AWS coincidentally also stops by for five insightful minutes on just that agentic AI. But we begin today with big news out of Best Buy. Ann.
- [07:24]
San Mazinga
Yes, headline number one, Chris. Best Buy has debuted a new creator program that features shoppable storefronts. According to a Best Buy press release, Best Buy storefronts gives creators the ability to create a one stop shop to highlight tech featured in their content and earn a commission on sales referred through their storefront with no commission cap. Several leading tech influencers are joining Best Buy creator program at launch with their own storefronts, including Linus Sebastian of Linus Tech Tips, who has over 16 million YouTube subscribers, obviously, and 8 billion views, as well as popular and trusted tech reviewer Judner Ora, also known as your average customer.
- [08:10]
Chris Walton
Yeah, he is obviously. I don't know, judder. I'm assuming it's a guy I know.
- [08:15]
San Mazinga
Well, we know that they have a lot of aura, so that's a great thing. But Chris, are you buying or selling Best Buys new storefronts for creators?
- [08:25]
Chris Walton
Ooh, ooh. I like I and I like this story. I'm buying this for the here and then now, the here and the now and the future is what I meant to say.
- [08:33]
San Mazinga
If I'm gonna.
- [08:34]
Chris Walton
Okay. And the reason I say that this is something I used to talk on the show about years back. I don't feel like I've talked about it as much, although I think it's been coming back recently based on the recent headlines. And that is that, like it or not, the retail influencers in the online space particularly are the new merchants. They are the new retail merchants of the online space. They're the ones that curate everything. They're the ones that tell everyone what to buy. So I think let that sink in. Everyone. Retail merchants are getting displaced by the influencers in the online space. It's very important to just come to the realization and just buy into it because it's happening. So I like what Best Buy is doing for a number of reasons. One, it plays on that trend. Two, it shows that Best Buy understands the trend and wants to build, build tools for this new merchant community. And that means in turn that number three, influencers will want to work with Best Buy because they'll want to show off their pages and they'll want to get the commissions from this. So it's not, it's not that dissimilar to the story we talked about with Dick's Sporting Goods a few weeks ago with their influencer program. So this is the wave of the future, but here's the. So this is the now. Now I'll talk about the next, the future part. But the really cool thing here is what does this mean for bricks and mortar retailers? Because I think they can figure out how to turn their actual merchandising organizations into influencers as well if they want to. But I've been talking about the first part for 10 years. It's going to take another 10 years for some merchant organization with the 200 plus merchants that they've got running it to be able to take their PR teams and their comp scenes and be like, let's put our merchants front and center and allow them to talk about why they're picking the products that they are and then let the merchants kind of duke it out in terms of who's the best influencer inside those organizations. That's where I see this going in the long run.
- [10:15]
San Mazinga
So tell me more a little bit about what that looks like in the physical bricks and mortar store sense. Chris, like elaborate on that for me because I'm, I get where you're going, but like, yeah, what does that feel like, look like in your mind?
- [10:28]
Chris Walton
Yeah. So if I was going to activate this today, like say if I was back at Target and I was running home furnishings, I would be like, okay, all right, I've got, you know, I think at the time, 50, 60 buyers under me. And they're all picking products, right? Yeah, and they're all picking products. And they all understand, they should understand their categories better than the average consumer. That's why they have the jobs that they have. So I would go, so I would go to my marketing team and be like, all right, putting out an rfi, RFP to a PR agency that's going to put our merchants in the role of influencer, get them a marketing campaign, get them, put our marketing dollars behind them because like, if they try to do it on their own, it's not going to go anywhere. But they could do it with the power of Target or Walmart behind them. It becomes really powerful and they can become celebrities in their own right to the advantage of the companies.
- [11:15]
San Mazinga
Right. That might make the job of buyer a little bit more appealing than it is right now. Those teams are under it right now just trying to sort through everything that they're. Everything that's going on right now, 100%.
- [11:31]
Chris Walton
And then also it gets. Helps the rubber meet the road too, because a lot of merchandising success is based on who, how you operate, how you operate Politically, where this could actually be determined by who actually has the most followers, who brings in the most commissions. Like right it, right. It turns everything on its head. So I think, I think there's a there, there. It's just a question of who's going to bite the bullet and do it. It'll be the startups first and they'll come up with this idea and go after it, which is what they do already. That's the funny thing about it.
- [11:56]
San Mazinga
Right. Yeah. Well, so I, I love that concept and thought and I'm excited to see that kind of take shape and especially what that. And if that ends up working and if that's a, a tool to acquire new teams within retailers that are, excuse me, have much more dimension to them and are able to actually do some things that allow their creativity to come through as well. But for me, I think there were three immediate wins here in addition to what you talked about. Number one, I think from a marketing angle, what Best Buy doing here is doing here is really smart because I think you start to look at how this influencer economy is going to start to shape how marketing spend is, is, is done in these retail organizations. Because I don't think you're throwing as much money in this case at traditional marketing spending tactics. You're not throwing money at TV ads that, and crossing your fingers that you see a sales lift afterward. The best thing that brands can do right now to stay relevant, to increase awareness and to market is to create content. And this removes Best Buys duty and expense in creating this content and becoming relevant or staying relevant with today's consumer. I think that, you know, they're only paying influencers. When sales are made here, the sales are directly attributable to those influencers. I think this just kind of shakes up exactly how they're marketing to consumers and, and for the better. I think the second thing to pay attention to is search. Now when you think about where people are discovering products now, not only when I go to Perplexity or Google or wherever I'm going to search these products, I'm. Best Buy is showing up in those search results and the influencers are showing up in the search results. And I think that just boosts both Best Buy and the influencers relevance and allows you again to show up in more places where people are looking to discover content. And then finally, I think scaled content is another thing here for these influencers. They're only creating one video. They're taking the content that they're already producing and then they're able to distribute that now across all of Best Buys platforms and make more money on it. And they're not capped. They can, you know, like, this is endless possibility for them as influencers. So I think those are three areas that I'm really keen to follow. You know what Best Buy is doing, what Dick's Sporting Goods is doing and just kind of how this whole thing evolves and what that does to our industry as a whole.
- [14:23]
Chris Walton
Yeah. You know, and I got to call you out for something there that you just said. You know what it was, what you said? Duty.
- [14:31]
San Mazinga
Duty.
- [14:32]
Chris Walton
Duty. Did I? Duty.
- [14:34]
San Mazinga
Duty.
- [14:35]
Chris Walton
You said duty. Yes, duty. Duty. And duty for. Duty for Beavis and Butthead fans and duty for tariffs. So very, very apropos timing. And you said duty. All right.
- [14:46]
San Mazinga
Hey, all right, all.
- [14:47]
Chris Walton
Yeah, but I agree with you 100%. I agree with you 100%. The one caveat I would have in this story, though, is you still got to get traffic to these pages. Right. So the first thing, the first and foremost thing that that Best Buy needs to do is to make the conversion of the sale and social commerce easy for these influencers, which I imagine it's thinking about. But this gives them an easy landing spot for that to happen too. So that's part of.
- [15:09]
San Mazinga
Well, and. And data to support it. Like they'll know quickly if it's not working. Like they'll be able to see like this person was not able to sell or this person's not converting. And it. It allows like pinpoint that to an exact degree where with TV or with out of home or some of these other traditional radio ads, whatever it might be. Like you don't have the specificity that you get with these types of campaigns. So I love it.
- [15:32]
Chris Walton
Great point. All right, all right. Headline number two. Old Navy is partnering with Radar for the rollout of its AI powered RFID technology according to chain storage in a multi year phase rollout of indeterminate length. I would, I might add. Old Navy has tapped Radar to implement its real time inventory tracking technology into more than 1200 stores nationwide. Radar's RFID and AI platform, which uses overhead scanners that are always on and constantly tracking garments embedded with RFID chips, helps Old Navy to precisely manage inventory and give store associates the real time information they need to instantly find products anywhere in the store from the sales floor to the back room. And a 1200 store rollout seems pretty aggressive to me. If you were a betting woman, what do you think the odds are that this tech actually reaches all 1200 Old Navy stores? What are the odds?
- [16:33]
San Mazinga
Okay. I don't think I have enough data to make this bet. And so that's why.
- [16:38]
Chris Walton
Come on.
- [16:39]
San Mazinga
Because. Because I think that there's a major missing piece from this story. And I did as much digging as I could in prep for this show, but all I could find is that radars in 600 stores. American Eagle being one of those. But we don't know. Like, have they tested this at Old Navy already? How is this working? Like, what's happening? What's the phased rollout of 1200 stores looks like? I think there's a lot of data to me that's missing that will, that will determine whether or not this is going to be successful. But I will say I think the case is definitely, definitely can be made for this to expand out to all 1200 stores. Because obviously we all know Old Navy is the best performing brand under the Gap Inc. Umbrella. And I'd be willing to bet that they could do even more sales than, you know, whatever the. They were the top performing sales revenue or revenue driver this year in gaps latest reporting. I think if you could find more of that product. Exactly what Lily AI, CEO of Purva Gupta, told us. If you can find more product, then there you can buy more product. And I would be willing to bet that that is a major issue right now for Old Navy stores is that there's so much stuff in there that it's really hard for both consumers to find it when they're in store and. And for them to sell product from the stores online and know exactly, like, how much inventory they have. So I think this definitely will help them achieve that and I think could increase sales for Old Navy, but I still feel like I can't put an exact. Like, yes, this. I would not put any bets on it yet because I feel like I still need more information. But.
- [18:21]
Chris Walton
So you're. You're essentially punting. You're punting on the.
- [18:23]
San Mazinga
I'm punting.
- [18:24]
Chris Walton
What is the probability that this rolls out to 1200 stores? Really? You're punting? Okay, all right.
- [18:29]
San Mazinga
I do. I think there's more information that I need. And, and I mean, Spencer, the guy that the CEO of Radar, super smart dude, like one of the most super smart people I've ever talked to. But only 600 stores in the US feels like a small number for as long as he's been around. So, yeah, I just, I don't have enough data to support it, Chris. I'm sorry, you don't have enough data.
- [18:53]
Chris Walton
To make a guess? Okay.
- [18:54]
San Mazinga
I don't I don't have enough data to make an educated guess where I'd be willing to put mortgage my home to places.
- [19:01]
Chris Walton
Let's just say that I would never ask you to do that on this show and okay, but so basically your point is to recap, your point is you like the idea and concept. Like we've talked about a lot on this show and the value of it. Yes. Yeah. Can make a determination on whether radar is the right bet or if we'll see this in 1200 stores. Okay, well, I'll be a little more. I'll be a little more pinpointed and exact, which is probably my reputation on this show too. Relatively speaking. I give it almost zero percent chance of happening, man. And at all?
- [19:32]
San Mazinga
Like, like zero. At all.
- [19:34]
Chris Walton
Zero. There's no way.
- [19:35]
San Mazinga
Not no rollout. No rollout or you think it'll be.
- [19:38]
Chris Walton
No, no, no. I just think it doesn't get to 1200 stores like they're saying. And there's a lot of reasons I say that. I mean like first of all, you said Spencer's a really smart guy. He is. We've met him, we've talked to him. He's also. It's also a Y combinator back company which is a good feather in your cap. So they got that going for them as well. But the, the second part of this too is like the solution as it was shown to us originally, use computer vision. So I'm not sure if that's the case here. I couldn't figure that out for many of the articles. I always thought that was a little over engineered for what you need to do in the apparel space as well. And third, this is like the last point I would make is this. Make on this based on how they're talking about the rollout too. They're saying it's of an indeterminate length basically if you read between the headlines. Yeah. And so that it feels like you're buying promise versus reality. To your point. They've only, you know, tested this in a small number of stores so far. And RFID isn't anything new. There's a lot of companies that have been trying to do it for a long time. They've been trying to crack the code on it. So like why does. What is radar doing that? Others aren't doing that. They've suddenly cracked the code out of nowhere on that old Navy saying we're going to invest this capital at a time where capital is hard to come by into 1200 stores. And honestly, when I go to their webpage too. Goradar.com you can check it out folks. It's pretty much a static page and it's not emblematic of a company that I think would be ready for a 1200 store rollout.
- [20:59]
San Mazinga
Oh my God.
- [20:59]
Chris Walton
I could say, I could argue, okay, maybe this is their second big client. They haven't invested in that, that's fine. But I don't know and I hope they prove me wrong, honestly, and I hope they do. But if I'm Old Navy and I'm Gap Inc's cfo, I'm watching this really closely and possibly even digging in a bit more to it as well. That that's my take here. Like, I want to make sure I'm not over committing to this idea based on, you know, on, on, on where things stand. But go ahead.
- [21:26]
San Mazinga
Even if it's just RFID alone, like you don't think this is a smart investment for Old Navy to be making just rfid?
- [21:34]
Chris Walton
I think it is, but I think to go, I think it is. But to go bold and say we're going to, we're going to lock ourselves in to 1200 stores with this RFID provider, I think, I think that's an aggressive pitch for me and that's why we do what we do to kind of read between the headlines here, like are they really going to 1200 stores or are they really still in the experimentation stage on understanding how this rolls out? And I think they're decidedly in the former and I'd be surprised to see it actually get to 1200 stores in the long run.
- [22:01]
San Mazinga
So your, your approach would be you should go, you should be testing this with multiple providers before you choose one to roll out with.
- [22:09]
Chris Walton
Is, I mean, I think, I think they, I'm hope, I'm hopeful I will give Old Navy credit. I'm hopeful that they've done that. I would just be a little more cautious in your announcement to say, hey, we're rolling this out to, you know, the next tranche of stores because it's proving its worth versus saying, hey, we're going to 1200 stores with, with this company. Because a lot of these can spin out of control if everyone gets too far ahead of themselves from those types of announcements.
- [22:34]
San Mazinga
Okay, Chris, well, let's move on to headline number three then. Instacart has introduced Will Call Delivery, a new offering tailored to ensure distributors can meet the needs of urgent same day fill in orders. According to an Instacart press release, Will Call Delivery is a white label application built for distributors to streamline same day Ordering via their sales reps. Customers who need items fast can pick up their phones, text, or call their sales reps like they always do. And sales reps can request an Instacart shopper, pick up items from the warehouse, and deliver it to their end customers, all in just a couple of clicks. Additionally, in order to better address out of stocks or service customers that are far from the warehouse, distributors have the ability to place orders from retailers on the Instacart marketplace to ensure that customers are always getting the product they need quickly. Chris, you spent the better part of two years questioning Instacart's play to become the operating system for grocers. So are you going to Poo Poo will call delivery now as well.
- [23:34]
Chris Walton
Oh, we had duty and Poo Poo in the same podcast, Dan.
- [23:38]
San Mazinga
Oh, my God. I'm doing a podcast with a two year old. This is ridiculous.
- [23:41]
Chris Walton
You are. Yeah, right. Hey, I'll take that. I'm just. I'm gonna actually believe it. I'm gonna not. I'm gonna surprise you. I think I'm gonna say, not at all. I'm not gonna poo poo this at all. I actually like this move, and I think I like it because it scales what Instacart already does. Well, and Instacart has a right to win in this space. And I can also tell you from firsthand experience, my grandfather used to be a regional food distributor. And by regional, I mean very regional. And I would make sales calls with him to podunk bars outside of the Quad Cities in Iowa, in town.
- [24:12]
San Mazinga
Oh, my God, you're kidding me.
- [24:14]
Chris Walton
No, 100%. 100%. And we would deliver chips and soda and the whatnot to those bars.
- [24:20]
San Mazinga
Like all the stuff clipped on the back of the bars, like those chips where you're like, I want. Yeah, that's.
- [24:25]
Chris Walton
Yeah, yeah. He had a little delivery van, like he was like a one person operation in his 70s in a little delivery van. And. And you know what he would do? And he'd run out of things and he would honestly, he would hightail it to Sam's club, buy the items in bulk because he wanted to make sure he kept his customers happy. So Instacart is essentially playing on that. And so that's real. That happens. So I think there's a need state there. And so, yeah, I like it for that reason because it. It takes what they're already doing and just something they can win at. I think it's a smart.
- [24:58]
San Mazinga
That's so crazy because I was thinking of this because when I used to work at the corn stand during the summer. All right, here we go. This same thing would happen to us where, like, we'd run out of raspberries, and so we'd have to drive across the highway to go to the nearest grocery store, buy, like, 25 packages of raspberries, and then we'd put them in, like, the corn stand, like the little bushel box, like farm stand boxes, and sell them. Because the problem ultimately was if we didn't have those raspberries, you know, like, people would get pissed and they wouldn't come back and they wouldn't come to our corn stand. And so, I mean, that's what I'm thinking about here. Like, I don't think this is a permanent solution. And by no means did our air quote grandpa Bill want us to be taking money from the till and going to buy raspberries that come. But that's what we had to do. Like, it costs you more money, but it. It saves you customers. And I think that's the key thing here about what this is offering. You know, grocers, distributors, retailers. Like, it keeps people in your. In your ecosystem. And I think that's so important now, especially with the cost of goods going up, with loyalty being a main concern for a retailer or grocer to kind of maintain consumers. I think this is something that it's not a permanent use, this all the time solution, but it's definitely in a pinch. This is something that I think will help further establish a relationship with Instacart and the grocers and then also ultimately with the grocers and their end consumers. And. And it keeps the Instacart drivers more fully utilized. Like, there's also that part too.
- [26:39]
Chris Walton
Yeah, right, that part too. And my hunch is that people are already using Instacart for this too. Just behind the scenes, you know, it's not an official platform, probably. Yeah. But, Ann, I have a question for you. When you would run out of raspberries at the corn stand, would your customers give you an earful? Would they give you an earful?
- [26:54]
San Mazinga
Like, is this a corn joke?
- [26:56]
Chris Walton
Yeah, of course it is.
- [26:57]
San Mazinga
They would give you an earful, and I would have to stop reading my romance novel and have to deal with the same people who would, like, inspect each ear of corn. Chris. And they would inspect each individual raspberry. But, oh, yeah, it was all about the packaging.
- [27:13]
Chris Walton
Stand shoppers, they're very particular. And those corn stand shoppers, they're very picky.
- [27:18]
San Mazinga
They're very picky Very picky.
- [27:20]
Chris Walton
Well said. Nice pun. I like that. All right, well, let's bring David Dorff of AWS on today's show to educate us all. Ann and I, particularly for the very first time, really, where we've dug into agentic AI. Joining us now for five insightful minutes is David Dorff. David is the head of Retail industry solutions at AWS. David, welcome back to Omnitalk. And let's get started with this. Gen AI was the big topic for the last two years, and now 2025 seems to be the year of the agent, or agentic AI as some might call it. How do you define, quote, unquote, agents?
- [27:57]
David Dorff
Ah, yes, good question. So gen AI is about creating content, while agents are really about taking action. They both use foundation models underneath, but there's really three key things for agents. Number one, they're autonomous, so they have a role and they require minimal human oversight. Number two, there's reasoning involved, so they actually do this thing called chain of thought where they break down problems into smaller steps. And number three is they typically have some sort of tools or access to data in tools to be able to take action to do something. So those three things are really what set agents apart. And for example, you can use generative AI to just create an image, but an agent, you could say, I need a specific image that is relaxing and I want it posted to a website. And it can do all of that. Right. It's taking multiple steps and it's doing action. So there are lots of different gen AI use cases out there. But agentic gen AI is really where things are starting to explode.
- [28:55]
San Mazinga
So, David, are retailers actually using these agents already today? And if so, how are they using them?
- [29:03]
David Dorff
Yeah, it's not quite as prevalent right now because it is pretty new, but for sure. So I great example is Amazon uses agents to do a lot of Java upgrades. Sounds like a boring task, but we have like 30,000 Java applications that need to be upgraded from an older version to a newer version. And we have agents that go through and do that and saved us about $260 million last year.
- [29:26]
Chris Walton
Wow.
- [29:27]
David Dorff
In addition to just doing those upgrades, they'll also build unit tests and they'll do documentation and things like that. And we've got some other retailers doing some cool stuff, like Tapestry, the luxury retailer. They actually have an agent that helps find data and answer questions. It will take your textual question, figure out what database it needs to answer that, convert it to SQL, do the SQL query, and come back with an English answer. So it's kind of like an analyst, but it gives the business a chance to be able to get this information without necessarily having to create all sorts of weird SQL queries. And then we have a tire retailer who's giving recommendations for tires. So you, for example, can say what make and model you have and what you use your car for. And it goes and hits several different resources to figure out what the best tire recommendation might be. And it kind of gives you the reasoning behind why it recommends one tire over another, which I think is pretty unique.
- [30:28]
Chris Walton
Wow. And I don't know about you, but I had no idea that agents were already being deployed to the degree which David was saying. I thought this was just kind of the new buzzword idea for 2025, but. So with that said, David, I'm curious. How do you see agents changing retail even more over the next, like, five years? Let's say, what are the big things that are still going to change on this front?
- [30:50]
David Dorff
This is where things can get a little bit crazy. One type of agent is a computer use agent. So those were announced by Anthropic and OpenAI. And basically it has control of your browser and so it takes a picture of the browser screen so it knows where things are and it can navigate with the mouse and keyboard. And the. The demonstration that OpenAI gave was using Instacart to do your grocery shopping. There was even a New York Times article where the author bought eggs using a computer agent. Just saying, go find me eggs. So if you think about that for a minute, how does that really upend the retail industry with shopping? If people are using agents to do the shopping for them now, they're not going to do it for, like, fashion, but for replenishable items, grocery, that sort of thing. I can see that happening today. The user interface is made for humans and it's cluttered. And maybe we need to optimize that for agents just like we did for mobile. We have mobile optimized sites now. Maybe we'll have agent optimized sites that make it easier for agents to buy things on people's behalf. And then you have to start to think about what are some of the other things that could happen? What happens with advertising? There's no use in advertising to an agent. Should I be personalizing? Maybe that doesn't make sense. How do I affect a person when they're using an agent? Through things like promotions. An agent doesn't care about a promotion, so how do I get that information to a person? What about loyalty? That kind of gets thrown up if I can't really affect behavior and maybe something like even search. We have a whole industry around search engine optimization. What if it's agents that are out there doing the shopping for us? How is search engine optimization going to change and how do we influence things differently? I think we're on the cusp of some really interesting changes to the retail industry that agents could bring us and we need to start thinking strategically about what are the ramifications here and how can we prepare.
- [32:42]
San Mazinga
Well, David, you just blown both of our minds here. Unfortunately we have to get you out of here on this. But we will be thinking of many more questions. Where do people start? There's a lot that's changing. What do you recommend that retailers do now if they're, they're wanting to explore taking advantage of agentic AI or just to kind of tackle some of the things that are going to be happening in the future?
- [33:07]
David Dorff
Yeah, yeah. So number one is basic blocking and tackling, right? So don't get too caught up in gen hype. There's a lot of it out there. Number two, there's a lot of basic gen AI use cases that you can get a real good return on investment in things like creating product descriptions, definitely being able to do things like shopping assistance like Rufus. Those are some low hanging fruit that retailers should look at. And then we can start to get into the agentic areas where you've got processes that can be automated and you can really start to, I don't, I don't want to say replace people because we're not ready to do that yet, but really enhance the things that people are doing to be more efficient.
- [33:44]
Chris Walton
Great stuff, David. Thank you. All right, well, and I can't wait to talk about headline number five, because believe it or not coincidentally, all coincidentally too, I might add, folks, Amazon had a big agentic AI story. But before we get to that, we've got headline number four. San Diego has banned digitally digital only store grocery store coupons, according to Grocery Drive, also said grocery dive. The City Council for San Diego, California unanimously passed an ordinance requiring grocers that offer digital discounts or coupons to make corresponding paper coupons and pricing of identical value available to consumers. Whoa. The policy in San Diego is reportedly the first of its kind in the U.S. in San Diego, according to the city, 53,000 households don't have home Internet. And in low income areas or vulnerable communities, over 28% of the households don't have broadband Internet access as well. And this is also the put you on the spot Question from our folks at the A and M consumer and retail group, and they want to know, quote, do you applaud Ron Burgundy's hometown's attempt for promotional equality or critique the means or perhaps both?
- [35:02]
San Mazinga
San Diego, I think you're going. I think you're going the entire wrong route with paper coupons. I think this is just. It's not the right way to go. I think, like I just mentioned, disenfranchise the 53,000 people. No, no, no, I do not want to do that. I. But I think, like I mentioned in the Instacart story, winning in grocery right now is 100% about loyalty. And it's, again, it's going to become even more so as tariffs come into place as, you know, food prices go up. So I think if I were a grocer right now, I would take a hard look at my loyalty program and just apply these discounts to loyalty card go the way of, you know, Walmart plus, of Target Circle, where if you just scan the barcode, whether that's, you know, your physical barcode that you have on a card or you're doing that in a digital form, put your phone.
- [35:54]
Chris Walton
Number in at the cash register, you just.
- [35:57]
San Mazinga
You get the discounts. Because I think it's more valuable for me as a. In the long run, as a grocery store owner to have that information about my customers and to use that for other things like, you know, retail media or better, more personalized promotions or things like that than it is for me to go through the expense of producing a circular or having myself be at risk of, like, not putting all the right coupons out in time or relying on store labor to put signs up, that kind of thing. Like, I just think you have to focus on being the best price leader, the most personalized shopping experience for your consumers. And that comes down to, like, focusing hard here on loyalty and not dealing, like, paper coupons. Man, it's just a back. It's. It's going back in time and not taking the right approach. I think that's absolutely the. The wrong. Wrong move here.
- [36:50]
Chris Walton
Yeah, you're right. And the other thing, too, is, like, God, how many bullets are lined up against the average grocer? You know, like, how many bullets are in the chamber just making their job just harder, you know, for sure, at the same time. Right. You know? You know, right. Like, disenfranchisement is real. And it's partly why, you know, we. At least for me, like, I got. I got into this whole business that we've been in for the past eight years is to speak out about technology's impact on the end consumer and to make sure it's being utilized in the right way. So but I think the point you're making is really interesting here because the counter is also true actually when I think about it broadly in the industry. So you know, if, if you're as if your store effort couponing is also not and discounting is also not transparent, it doesn't play well in the opposite space in the online space. And I think of Kohl's as an example for that. So, so in a world where the two things are blending stores and online, you know, from an omnichannel perspective, which is what our show's about, I think you're right. It does make sense for retailers to be w and it would be wise for them to get one simplified, easy to understand loyalty promise with their shoppers however they want to do that. There's lots of ways to do that. But I think you're right, that's what this story tells me. First and foremost as a retail executive, if I'm sitting in the chair, is like we have to get our loyalty program moving in that direction so that regardless of how people want to shop, we're not encumbered by the legacy infrastructural needs that are going to bring down our business from a cost perspective or be distracting. So I think, I think it's an awesome point you brought up.
- [38:17]
San Mazinga
All right, headline number five Chris Amazon has a new AI agent that will shop third party sites for you According to TechCrunch, Amazon is starting to test a new AI shopping agent, a feature that it calls Buy with Me. Buy for Me with a subset of features the company announced in a blog post last Thursday. If Amazon doesn't sell something that users are searching for, the Buy for Me feature will display products that other websites are selling. Then users can select and request to purchase one of these products without ever leaving the Amazon Shopping app behind the scenes. Amazon's AI shopping agent will visit an external website, select a product that a user has requested, fill out the user's name, shipping address and payment details in order to purchase it, according to Amazon. Amazon said in the aforementioned blog post that Buy for Me uses encryption to securely insert your billing information on third party sites such that Amazon can't see what you're ordering from outside its platform. This is a unique approach compared to OpenAI and Google's agents, which require humans to still fill out credit card information for themselves, as well as perplexity's AI agent which has a prepaid debit card to make purchases. Chris, are you pro or con letting an Amazon agent do your shopping for you?
- [39:39]
Chris Walton
Whoa. Oh man. There's a lot of meat on the bone to that question. I'll tell you this. And I'm definitely game to try it. I mean I know for a fact you and I both tried to use it yesterday, but I guess neither one of us was in the lucky subset of, of early users to get to.
- [39:54]
San Mazinga
Talk to David Dorff about that. What the heck man, how this works.
- [39:58]
Chris Walton
Yeah, David, if you're listening, get us, get us in the beta. But you know, overall I think, I think this story is massive. And, and, and I say that because you know Amazon, if you get right down to it, Amazon is essentially telling the industry that it now has the power to scrape other retailers websites and to purchase products on their shoppers behalves and the retailers are potentially powerless to stop it. So that has drastic implications to me, particularly on the retail media side of things because if people start doing this, the retailers won't get that first party data anymore. You know that first party data is going through Amazon and so therefore their networks are going to become less powerful and therefore they're going to be forced to even sell more on Amazon or to advertise through Amazon. So net net, Amazon wins in this power move because A, either more retailers will list directly on Amazon as a result of this because why fight it or B they're going to place more ads on Amazon to show up within Amazon's media network to get the buy. So this is baller, baller, baller strategic stuff to me and I'm absolutely gobsmacked at the power of it and the brilliance of the power play move here from Amazon. So, and you know, the last point I make is, you know Google's thinking the exact same way. They have to be.
- [41:21]
San Mazinga
Yeah.
- [41:21]
Chris Walton
So man, the retailers here, I don't know what you do, honestly I don't know what you do if, to thwart either Amazon or Google for this. And it, it gets kind of scary when you think about all the money going into retail media too. And they figured out and ended around on this too given the one big if here, which is will people shop and use agents in this way? Yeah, and I think they will over time.
- [41:48]
San Mazinga
I, I do too. I mean I think basically everything that we heard at Shop Talk with David Dorff was just talking about in five insightful minutes like everything's pointing to this is the direction that Consumers are going to go and if, and I think convenience is the big play here. Like you think about, you know, a lot of people are starting their seek and destroy shopping missions on Amazon because they know that they can get it done quickly. They can, they have the return guarantee of like it's an easy thing for me to return if I don't end up liking it. So I mean obviously all of the, the puts and takes of how that is all going to shake out when you're using agents on Amazon to purchase these goods outside of an Amazon platform, like that stuff is all probably still in the works. But I imagine we're getting to a place there where you know, people just like with Buy with Prime, like you have the confidence when you're shopping that you know, if you order from this place it already has all my information saved. It's still a one click to buy situation. And I think that you still have a lot of work that needs to be done on some of the other platforms in order to do that. Now I think you bring up a good point with Google and I, I do think that Google does have a unique position here as well. Because when you think about how well Google can personalize some of this shopping experience, maybe you don't need, you don't need the, the consumer sending out the agen the directive. I think Google's going to come at it a different way and be able to take everything that they know about you from your activities in the Google sphere, from, you know, what you're shopping on, what you're searching and shopping and watching on YouTube, what you're, you know, what you're getting in your Gmail inbox, what's on your Google Calendar, like everything that you're doing in all your Google Docs, like they can start to pull that information to really personalize the experience. So it's more of a, of a like, like push experience than a pull or an outward experience that I'm doing on an Amazon. So I, I think net Net agentic shopper, you know, consumers using agentic shoppers is one of the biggest takeaways for me from Shop Talk. I think that's something we really have to focus on. And to your point, there's a lot of money to be made here in retail media in how we're advertising and promoting products both to the agents and both to me as a consumer who's still shopping for projects product. And it's, this is just a huge move for Amazon to kind of go in that direction, start pressure testing it In a place that I'm already comfortable shopping as a consumer.
- [44:15]
Chris Walton
Yeah, that's the part for me. I mean, I think, you know, Amazon's click to buy is just so powerful and the confidence that they already have my credit card information, my shipping address, all that kind of stuff, relatively speaking, it's so easy. Makes this, you know, makes this just kind of a no brainer for me. But you know, the other point I make as I step back from this is like Google and Amazon have dominated search for a long time. Like what are they, 80% of the search market already, if not more? And that's still going to be the case even more so like just more of the end commerce is going to be pushed through this. And so, you know, and I mean, it sounds like Amazon's basically just going to subsidize this through Prime. Right. I don't even know how they make money on this necessarily other than getting people to list on them over time in the long run or getting the retail media dollars to have their products show up so that people are buying, you know, from the companies that are average that are going this way with them. So. So yeah, I mean, God, it's just so scary for the retailers in my mind in terms of how these two big behemoths actually become more and more, more and more powerful in a game they already dominate.
- [45:15]
San Mazinga
Right. And it just makes the case for how are your products ready to show up? Because in the interim you have to still be showing up on these, on all of the, in all of these places, you know, because it's just like you're saying, going more and more away from. I'm going to lululemon.com to find products like that that might completely go away. And now these agentic or these agents that will put on the task of find me a sports bra in this size and ship it to me in two days. Like, that's how I think the future of search and shopping is going to go forward.
- [45:48]
Chris Walton
Well, I think, I think it will because like that was. We should tell the audience that when you and I were looking yesterday to try to use this, we both were like, what should we search? We're both like, like Lululemon. Because we're like, okay, it's springtime, you know, it's not cold in Minneapolis anymore. I know. Kind of what I want. I want to see what they've got. I have been delaying looking at it to see if, you know, I want to plunk down some money for it because I know it's expensive but, like, that was what I looked for, and had they had it, I probably would have bought it, you know? Yeah, I probably.
- [46:14]
San Mazinga
They don't have a store on Amazon as of right now.
- [46:17]
Chris Walton
Like. Right.
- [46:17]
San Mazinga
We knew that some. Yeah, we knew that was something that they'd have to go outside to search. Yeah, it's.
- [46:22]
Chris Walton
It's.
- [46:22]
San Mazinga
It's fascinating. Well, David, get your people together and get Chris and I on the beta test so we can start test sending our agents to do our bidding.
- [46:31]
Chris Walton
Take out our personal information, David, and get us on. Get us on the. Get us on the beta. All right.
- [46:36]
San Mazinga
All right, let's go to the lightning round. Chris, question number one. Customers have been stockpiling even more items as of late that may be impacted by the latest. Latest tariffs that President Trump announced last week. Chris, is there an item that you're keen to stock up on?
- [46:53]
Chris Walton
Oh, man. Well, it's not toilet paper. And because, as you know, as you. As you let the listeners in on the little secret, I travel with my own, so I'm feeling very well stocked up on that. But, you know, I guess I would say I don't really have anything that comes to mind. For me, I think it would be my. My dream car purchase, which would be a Mercedes G Wagon. I would love to stock up on those.
- [47:12]
San Mazinga
You better get that now. Yeah, you better get that now. No French wine or, like, maple syrup from Canada. You don't need to. Nothing like that. I mean.
- [47:22]
Chris Walton
Yes, I guess. Yeah. Anyone wants to send me those? Yeah, for sure. I'd stock up on all those. But, you know, I'm not a very consumptive person, given the fact that we do a retail podcast in general. But. All right, number two, a biotech company this week said that it has bred three animals with key physical features of the direwolf, a species that has been extinct for more than 1200 years. If you could bring back 12,000. 12,000 years. Oh, my God. That's a long time.
- [47:49]
San Mazinga
Yeah.
- [47:50]
Chris Walton
Wow. Thank you for that correction, too. That's an important point. If you could bring back one other species from extinction, what would it be?
- [47:58]
San Mazinga
Well, clearly the dire wolf is an important one to me because I know exactly how long it's been extinct for. But I have to say, dinosaurs. You got to bring back a dinosaur. Like, maybe not a giant Jurassic Park.
- [48:13]
Chris Walton
That's what you want.
- [48:14]
San Mazinga
Hell, yeah, I do.
- [48:16]
Chris Walton
When you want to see. I got to get off this world, man.
- [48:20]
San Mazinga
But would you want to see a dinosaur in real life? Like, I just want one, and I don't Want it to be like a meat eater. I just want it to be like a big brontosaurus or something. Like, just so we can understand the pure magnitude of how. What life must have been like when there's just a brontosaurus in your backyard.
- [48:40]
Chris Walton
I'm good. I'm good. I don't need the Flintstones. I don't need the Flintstones in my backyard. And I'm good. I'm good.
- [48:45]
San Mazinga
It. I.
- [48:46]
Chris Walton
My mind. My mind can't take the cognitive load that is. That's being heaped upon it right now. I'm good. I'm good. Without dinosaurs in my life. I think I am.
- [48:53]
San Mazinga
All right, fair. Okay, well, Chris, we're gonna move on to a vacation focused one, then.
- [48:58]
Chris Walton
Okay, good. Take me away. Cow gone. Take me away.
- [49:01]
San Mazinga
Okay. White Lotus aired its final episode of the season last Sunday. If you got to hand, I've not.
- [49:07]
Chris Walton
Seen yet, so don't spoil anything with.
- [49:09]
San Mazinga
I won't. I'm not gonna spoil it. I'm not gonna spoil it. But you need to watch it soon. If you got to hand out Emmys for the following categories for the cast of White Lotus, who would win them? I want to know, who did you think was the best actor? Who is the most hated character, the most loved character? And which character would you most like to be on a trip at the White Lotus with? Those are your categories.
- [49:34]
Chris Walton
Okay. Okay, okay, okay. Got it. Got it. Now, I haven't seen the show, so fans, just give me some grace here, because I haven't seen the final show, so. Especially for the hate question, you know, I think that one's.
- [49:44]
San Mazinga
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
- [49:45]
Chris Walton
If I haven't seen the whole show. All right, so best actor. This one might surprise you. And I'm going with Patrick Schwarzenegger, I think. I think he crushed it on that show this year. I think he was really, really good and very. A very talented actor. He showed me a range and depth of emotion that I was surprised to see from him.
- [50:00]
San Mazinga
Man, old Saxon, he had a lot. He had a lot of stuff happening in this season. Absolutely. I think he did a good job. Okay.
- [50:08]
Chris Walton
Yeah, he was good. I liked him. Most loved was Parker Posey. Like, oh, God, Piper. No, Like, I just love her. She's. So we just have to do. It's a cult. Yeah. Most hated. I think I'd go with Michelle Monahan's character. I don't remember her name, but the TV actress, I just don't like her. I think she's Jacqueline. Yeah, no, Jacqueline. Yeah, I think she's just annoying.
- [50:36]
San Mazinga
Okay.
- [50:36]
Chris Walton
And if I had to take somebody on a trip with me, I don't know her. I think it's, I think her name's Mook. On the show. I'm going with the Korean K pop star because, yeah, she's, she, she's pretty darn good looking. I wouldn't mind going on a trip with her. She, she, she would, she'd be a good travel companion for me.
- [50:52]
San Mazinga
She seems fun too. Like, she kind of, she's got a little danger to her. She wants, yeah. Guy talk to like, you know, step it up a little bit. I think she'd be a fun challenging vacation opponent. So I, I agree with your categories. Parker Posey, man, this is gonna relaunch her career though. I, I love that for sure.
- [51:11]
Chris Walton
I don't, I don't know what a vacation opponent is, but I'm glad I, I'm glad I get to think about that for the first time. Taking an opponent on vacation with me.
- [51:21]
San Mazinga
All right, last one challenge.
- [51:23]
Chris Walton
She's gonna challenge me because I need to be challenged. All right. National Burrito day was on April 3rd last week and we were on spring break. I didn't celebrate it. I'm curious one if you did. But two, so what is currently. We've talked about this before on the podcast, but it's been a number of years since we brought it up again. What is currently the number one thing that you think screws up a good burrito?
- [51:42]
San Mazinga
Okay, well, I did not, I did not celebrate because I was in the least likely burrito place of Vancouver, Canada. We ate sushi on that day instead of. But I guess you could have a sushi burrito, but we did not. Okay. The biggest thing to mess up a burrito, I think by standby sogginess. Like if you have too much liquid in a burrito, that's a problem. So I think that the solution to. And the best burritos that I've had, they, they like melt the cheese right away on the tortilla and then use that as like a double defense layer to keep all the ingredients. Yeah. So that's what I think. If you're going to make a good burrito, you put the cheese on the bottom and like let it melt so that it can like double protect any of the, the sogginess from happening from the tomatoes or lettuce or other ingredients.
- [52:35]
Chris Walton
But yeah, that's my good, good.
- [52:38]
San Mazinga
Have you changed your stance?
- [52:41]
Chris Walton
No, my number one is still the loose fold. I don't like the loose fold, but I Think if you bring the loose fold in tandem with the wetness of the burrito, then you've got disaster. That's like. That's, like, almost inedible.
- [52:52]
San Mazinga
It's like soggy doggy. That's not working.
- [52:54]
Chris Walton
The soggy doggy burrito. That's.
- [52:56]
San Mazinga
That's.
- [52:56]
Chris Walton
That's just not. Not good for anyone. All right, happy birthday today to Dennis quaid, Kristen Stewart, and to the real you. Like Dennis Quaid.
- [53:05]
San Mazinga
Oh, my God. I've been obsessed with Dennis Quaid for my entire life. Yeah.
- [53:09]
Chris Walton
Such a skeezy, dude. Oh, man. I just. Oh, God.
- [53:12]
San Mazinga
Now, sure. But, yeah, Happy birthday.
- [53:16]
Chris Walton
I'm. I'm team meg. I'm team Meg versus team Dennis. All right, Kristen Stewart. And to the real Rudy, the underdog hero of my 80s heart, the lovely Keisha knight pulliam. And remember, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, make it omnitok. And because you're staring at me, that she played Rudy on the cosby show, make it omnita. The only retop. There she goes. There she goes.
- [53:41]
San Mazinga
I was thinking of Rudy, the football film.
- [53:44]
Chris Walton
I know. That's why I threw it that way. Yeah, yeah.
- [53:46]
San Mazinga
Okay.
- [53:46]
Chris Walton
Do a little thing. I thought you know Keisha knight pulling, but I guess you're not up on your. Your Cosby actors like Malcolm, Jamal Warner and Lisa bonet.
- [53:55]
San Mazinga
I know her. Yeah.
- [53:56]
Chris Walton
And. And the fourth sister who no one knows the name of. Like, I have no idea what her name was. Sandra was her name on the show and her husband Elwood. But anyway, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, and if you've stuck with us this long, by God, make it omnitoc. The only retail outlet run by two former executive executives from a current top 10 u. S. Retailer. Our fast five podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week's top news in our daily newsletter. The retail daily minute tells you all you need to know each day to stay on top of your game as a retail executive. And also it regularly features exclusive content that we and and I both take a lot of pride in doing just for you. Thanks as always for listening, and please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube. You can follow us today by simply going into YouTube.com omnitalk retail. So until next week, on behalf of all of us at omnitalk retail, on behalf of Anne and myself, as always, be careful out there.