Podcast Summary

Overview

Episode Title: Joan Baez — "This Gift of a Voice"
Podcast: On Being with Krista Tippett
Host: Krista Tippett
Date: November 26, 2024
Episode Theme:
A deep, intimate conversation with pioneering singer, activist, and now poet Joan Baez. The episode explores Baez's journey through music, activism, personal healing, and creative expression, highlighting her lifelong negotiation between public legend and private reckoning. Through poetry readings and candid storytelling, Baez reflects on the complexity of overcoming, aging, and the tender work of wholeness.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Roots and Spiritual Background

• Family and Early Faith:

  • Baez describes her upbringing with a Scottish mother and Mexican-born father, their conversion to Quakerism, and a family tree with religious diversity (Episcopal, Methodist, Catholic backgrounds) [04:42].
  • On Childhood Quaker Meetings:

    "As kids, we all hated Quaker meeting ... but what stayed with me in the end was the silence. And it's been a part of my life, an important part of my life ever since." — Joan Baez [04:42]

• Silence as Spiritual Practice:

  • Baez credits the enforced Quaker silence for fostering her comfort with meditation and nature [05:42].

2. The Mystery and Power of Her Voice

• Receiving the Gift:

  • Baez describes her iconic voice as a mysterious gift:

    "It's mostly mystery. Yeah, it is. I don't know where it came from." — Joan Baez [06:08]

  • She acknowledges her awareness that her voice was special, even as a child [06:39].

• Relationship to Voice:

  • Krista Tippett reflects on Baez's voice as "the voice of an era," linking it to social movements and collective memory [07:00].

3. Healing, Poetry, and Inner Multiplicity

• Journey of Self-Reckoning:

  • Baez details her internal struggles, which paralleled her public impact [10:45].
  • In midlife, Baez and her sisters confronted buried trauma and dissociative identity disorder (DID), marking the start of her deep healing journey [08:51].

• Poetry as Healing:

  • Reading her “Author’s Note,” Baez reveals writing as a way to access different "inner authors" or selves:

    "In 1990, I began therapy that led to a diagnosis of associative identity disorder ... Some of the poems ... are heavily influenced by or in effect written by some of the inner authors." — Joan Baez [08:51]

• Multiplicities Within:

  • She humorously and openly discusses her multiple inner voices, and how poetry sometimes appeared to be signed by other “people” within her [14:32].

  • "When we talk about them publicly, they're kind of like peeping around the corner. ‘What about me? What about me?’ ... It's too crazy for me to comprehend, so stick with me. Yeah." — Joan Baez [13:55]

4. Art, Poetry, and Creativity

• Creative Process:

  • Baez insists her creative output is instinctive, not analytical [19:35]:

    "I just do it and I don't think about it." — Joan Baez [19:35]

• Contrast Between Songwriting and Poetry:

  • She affirms that poems and songs are distinct, and that poetry rarely translates directly into song [21:39].
  • Tippett reads lines from “Diamonds and Rust,” discussing its poetic lyricism [15:25].

• Advice from a Painter:

  • Baez shares creative advice:

    "Make as many mistakes as you can see." — Advice cited by Baez [20:33]

5. Activism and its Costs

• Living Multiple Lives in Parallel:

  • Baez rejects the idea that one must be healed before aiding others:

    "You just can't. You have to do it all at the same time ... I went out there and did everything. Everything all at once." — Joan Baez [22:45]

• Reckoning with the Era:

  • The conversation explores lessons from the 1960s and uncompleted work of activism—particularly regarding race and peace [23:27, 24:50].

• The Modern Moment:

  • Baez remarks on the unprecedented challenges of today’s world and the central threat of climate crisis [25:13]:

    "Our backdrop is global warming ... I think it's really important to live in denial 95% of the time so you can breathe and have a Life and then 5% of the time, go make some good trouble." — Joan Baez [25:13-26:06]

• Hope and Pessimism:

  • Baez discusses disciplined hope and the pitfalls of false optimism or despair [26:35]:

    "To be optimistic can be silly, be pessimistic is a waste of time." — Joan Baez, citing another [26:35]

• Limitations of Heroic Activism:

  • Baez reflects on activism addiction and recalibrating expectations for “saving the world”:

    "We shall overcome didn't mean world peace forever ... If we can still think of it as small victories ... that's all we can do now." — Joan Baez [30:16-31:21]

6. Family, Guilt, and Intergenerational Healing

• Parenthood Reflections:

  • Moving poems for her son Gabe (“Gabe at three” [32:20], “Big Sur for Gabe at 24” [36:18]) provide windows into Baez's parental vulnerability, guilt, and ultimate healing.

• Universal Mother-Child Struggles:

  • Baez jokes about starting a “Bad Mothers Club,” speaking to the universal feeling of parental inadequacy and self-critique [33:38]:

    "I could forgive everybody, you know, I could forgive this, forgive that, my mother, my father, but I couldn't forgive myself ... He finally said, what makes you so special? Other people do this, you know." — Joan Baez quoting her therapist [33:38]

• Next Generations:

  • Baez shares her pride in her joyful granddaughter, contrasting her cheerfulness to her own [38:29].

7. Meanings of Peace, Wholeness, and Aging

• Changing Definitions:

  • The word “peace” is problematized by Baez, who says it shouldn’t be static or simplistic:

    "The problem with the word peace is that it's static ... the only way to even approach peace is through peace, through what you do." — Joan Baez [39:52]

  • On “We Shall Overcome:”

    "It doesn't really matter what you talk about. It is what you do." — Baez quoting David Harris [39:52]

• Aging and Acceptance:

  • Baez discusses the challenges and humor found in aging and physical change [46:15]:

    "We accept our own looniness better as we get older ... you do these things more easily or more automatically. Yeah, but aging is a tricky business." — Joan Baez [46:15]

• Integration and Multiplicity:

  • Baez resists the language of psychological “integration,” preferring to picture her selves as a choir, with her as the diva [48:09]:

    "Just look at your personalities as the chorus. And then you would be the diva ... the only way I started letting these people go was one of them knocked on my head one day and said, I want out." — Joan Baez [48:09-48:53]

8. Ecological Grief and Nature

• Birdsong’s Diminishment:
  • Baez poignantly describes the loss of birds from the canyon near her home as emblematic of ecological collapse [41:45]:

    "Years ago ... it used to be just a cacophony of bird song in the morning ... more recently, there is nothing. There's an Eep and a peep, but that." — Joan Baez [41:45]

  • She reads her poem "Birdsong" [43:18], mourning this loss but also savoring “the beauty of the song.”

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• On the Gift of Song:

  "As a result, I let slip most of my life. I was chronically anxious, insomniac, promiscuous, multiphobic, depressed, hyper vigilant, and luckily, immensely talented ... When I was half a century old, I tore off the antennae and turned my life over to a power greater than myself, which by that point could have been a toothpick." — Joan Baez [17:06]

• On Activism:

  "You have to do it all at the same time ... I went out there and did everything. Everything all at once. Tried to, anyway." — Joan Baez [22:45]

• On Hope:

  "Hope is a muscle. That made sense to me because I don't have a whole lot of hope, naturally. But I think I was also very pessimistic. And people assume that I'm an optimist." — Joan Baez [26:35]

• On Small Victories:

  "We shall overcome didn't mean world peace forever. We shall overcome now ... if we can still think of it as small victories ... that's all we can do." — Joan Baez [31:21]

• On Forgiving Herself:

  "I could forgive everybody, ... but I couldn't forgive myself ... and he finally said, what makes you so special? Other people do this, you know." — Joan Baez (quoting her therapist) [33:38]

• On the Loss of Birdsong:

  "I can barely stand the inevitable turning of the seasons and the remnants and shadows of the hosannas that filled the canyon only yesterday." — Joan Baez, "Birdsong" [43:18]

• On Aging:

  "We accept our own looniness better as we get older ... you do these things more easily or more automatically. Yeah, but aging is a tricky business." — Joan Baez [46:15]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Joan’s Spiritual Roots: [04:42–05:42]
• Reflecting on Her Voice: [06:08–06:39]
• Poetry and Multiplicity, Therapist’s Role: [08:51–14:32]
• Diamonds and Rust as Poetry: [15:25–16:19]
• Artistic Process & Advice: [19:35–20:33]
• Activism and Healing in Parallel: [22:37–23:27]
• 1960s, Movement Lessons, Modern Realities: [24:30–26:06]
• Hope and Denial: [26:35–27:12]
• Fame and Motherhood: [31:21–33:38]
• Birdsong and Ecological Grief: [41:45–43:18]
• Aging and Integration: [46:15–49:05]
• Final Poem, “Goodbye to the Black and White Ball”: [53:42–55:44]

Selected Poetry Readings & Reflections

• “Poetry and Me” (Author’s Note) [08:51] — Baez describes writing as channeling various aspects of her psyche, as healing and discovery.

• “Goodbye to the Black and White Ball” [17:06 & 53:46] — Anchors the journey from living in extremes to recognizing the hidden “diamonds” within.

• “Gabe at Three” [32:20] — Tender motherhood memory reflecting vulnerability and affection.

• “Big Sur for Gabe at 24” [36:18] — Nature, awe, and maternal pride suffuse this poetic portrait.

• “Birdsong” [43:18] — Lyrical mourning of vanished birds and ecological anxiety.

• “Low, Low Impact Class” [50:11] — Humorous, affectionate reflection on aging.

Final Thoughts

Joan Baez’s conversation with Krista Tippett is an illuminating journey through a life lived at the intersection of art, activism, suffering, and grace. Baez candidly shares her struggles and healing, highlighting how the pursuit of wholeness is continuous, mosaic, and necessarily communal. Her presence — in voice, song, and now poetry — continues to offer ballast, beauty, and honest hope in these tumultuous times.