ON CRISPR: The Story of Jennifer Doudna with Walter Isaacson

ON BENJAMIN FRANKLIN Episode 4: The Statesman

iHeartPodcasts and Kaleidoscope | Aired: September 19, 2024

Episode Overview

In this episode, biographer Walter Isaacson joins host Evan Ratliff to explore the diplomatic genius and political evolution of Benjamin Franklin as “The Statesman.” Focusing on Franklin’s crucial roles from pre-Revolutionary tensions to the crafting of America’s foundational documents, Isaacson details how Franklin’s skills as a mediator, pragmatist, and world-class diplomat not only shaped American policy but also changed the course of history during the Revolution and its aftermath. The episode dives deeply into Franklin’s transition from loyal British subject to determined revolutionary and master international negotiator, particularly in the context of forging the alliance with France.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Personal Cost of Revolution: Franklin Versus His Son

• Franklin’s rift with his son: Franklin asks his loyalist son William (Royal Governor of New Jersey) to resign and join the Revolution. William refuses, causing an irreparable break.

  “Franklin tells William he's going to be on the side of the revolution and that William should resign his governorship. And William doesn't. ...it’s a rift that never gets repaired.”
  —Walter Isaacson (02:44)

• Franklin’s loyalties crystallized by family sacrifice.

  “He lets his son be arrested and imprisoned in Connecticut. I think it's because Benjamin Franklin wanted to make it clear he didn't have divided loyalties.”
  —Walter Isaacson (20:01)

2. Early Political Career and the Penn Family Dispute

• Franklin transitions from civic leader to political activist:

  “When he retires in his early 40s... he believes that we have to all work together... Franklin is trying to work out a system where...we now have to tax ourselves. We now have to govern ourselves.”
  —Walter Isaacson (04:58)

• The battle with the Penn family over self-governance and taxation becomes a stepping stone to the Revolution.

  “His first mission is simply to loosen the power of the Penn family.”
  —Walter Isaacson (05:47)

3. London: A Lesson in Power, Class, and Celebrity

• Franklin as a colonial agent in London: Astonished by the city’s scale and class divides, Franklin connects with a burgeoning middle class at coffeehouses.

  “He gravitate[s] to...coffee shops which provided newspapers and tables where you could sit all afternoon...and discuss current events. And that's where Franklin gravitated.”
  —Walter Isaacson (06:44)

• Navigating celebrity and scandal: Franklin becomes a media target and learns the risks of fame.

  “Your slightest indiscretions will be magnified into crimes in order to sensibly wound and afflict me.”
  —Franklin letter, cited by Isaacson (09:06)

• Attempted compromise with the British Empire ultimately fails: Franklin envisions a Commonwealth similar to Canada but is publicly humiliated.

  “He gets called before a hearing of Parliament...and gets prosecuted...this is the beginning of his realization that, no, this is not going to work.”
  —Walter Isaacson (11:25)

4. Minister of Revolution: From Centrist to Firebrand

• Franklin is initially cautious about breaking with Britain, but the mood at home steers him toward revolution.

  “...he has to scramble. And in a way that pushes him towards...becoming more revolutionary because he realizes that...anti British sentiments...had welled up in America.”
  —Walter Isaacson (12:30)

• Instrumental in launching revolutionary media: Franklin supports Thomas Paine and the publication of "Common Sense,"

  “He was the one who had helped bring Thomas Paine over from England...and helped get Common Sense published.”
  —Walter Isaacson (13:11)

5. The Declaration of Independence: Master Editor and Collaborator

• Franklin’s influence on iconic American ideals:

  “Jefferson writes...‘we hold these truths to be sacred.’ And Franklin...takes it out and writes ‘self evident’ and explains, we're trying to create a new type of nation in which our rights come not from the dictates of religion, but from rationality and reason.”
  —Walter Isaacson (20:49)

• Balancing rationality and faith:

  “There's a certain balance that we strike when we're figuring out our role as a nation.”
  —Walter Isaacson (23:03)

• Jefferson, Franklin and Adams’ collaborative process symbolized the ideal of teamwork among the founders.

6. From “Join, or Die” to Diplomatic Victory: Franklin’s Symbolism

• How Franklin’s visual flair galvanized revolutionary identity:

  “Franklin's genius of...knowing how to visually convey information—how a Join or Die cartoon...can have an impact.”
  —Walter Isaacson (26:21)

• Franklin established iconic American symbols:

  “He loved a snake. He's got the snake in Join or Die. There's the Don't Tread on Me snake...”
  —Evan Ratliff (26:36)

7. Diplomatic Tour-de-Force: Winning France’s Allegiance

• Franklin in France—celebrity, charm, and public relations:

  “He wears, instead of a wig, he wears this backwoods fur cap...in Paris, the women are wearing cafeurs a la Franklin...he just totally wins over the French people.”
  —Walter Isaacson (35:34)

• Master of balancing realpolitik with lofty ideals:

  “He gets to France and he plays this balance of power game...but he also plays an idealistic game...He wants to play to [liberty, equality, fraternity] as well.”
  —Walter Isaacson (33:58)

• Franklin’s charismatic persona as a diplomatic tool:

  “Having this rakish cachet and a bit of celebrity gives him a certain power. He can't be ignored or declared persona non grata...”
  —Walter Isaacson (40:17)

• Managing and leveraging alliances, even when trust wavers:

  “Franklin just leads this fun life in Passy...It's weirdly a nest of spies...but [he] says, I've learned that even if my valet is a spy, to act the same way because I'll just do things that I don't care if they get exposed.”
  —Walter Isaacson (37:09)

8. The Adams Rivalry and Making the Peace

• A dynamic of tension and balance with John Adams:

  “Franklin, just by his nature, is too accommodating...Adams is not a deal maker...Franklin's more willing to make a deal...So I guess that combination works well.”
  —Walter Isaacson (41:10)

• Franklin’s diplomatic independence due to slow 18th-century communications:

  “That's why diplomacy was so much more important back then...Franklin has quite a bit of leeway.”
  —Walter Isaacson (42:34)

• Securing the French alliance, America’s war hinging on this success:

  “Without France, we could not have won the Revolution. They supply most of the munitions...it's their navy...that made it possible for the United States...to triumph militarily.”
  —Walter Isaacson (44:40)

• Smoothing over diplomatic flare-ups: Franklin’s rhetorical and personal skills enable him to repair and maintain vital relationships, even after breaking protocol.

  “Franklin writes the most soothing diplomatic letter blaming it on himself, saying, yes, I'm so sorry, but our love for France and our gratitude, whatever...he has...the temerity to ask for another loan from France.”
  —Walter Isaacson (46:15)

9. Essential Legacy: The Glue of Democracy

• Franklin is sometimes overlooked as a secondary figure, but Isaacson insists:

  “He was both the glue that held people together and the thread that tied our progress.”
  —Walter Isaacson (47:39)

• Franklin’s lesson on compromise:

  “Always in favor of compromise...but the big moral challenge...is knowing when to compromise and when to stand true to principle.”
  —Walter Isaacson (48:24)

Memorable Quotes

• “Franklin tells William he's going to be on the side of the revolution and that William should resign his governorship. And William doesn't. ...it’s a rift that never gets repaired.”
  —Walter Isaacson (02:44)
• “Your slightest indiscretions will be magnified into crimes in order to sensibly wound and afflict me.”
  —Franklin letter, cited by Isaacson (09:06)
• “Jefferson writes...‘we hold these truths to be sacred.’ And Franklin...takes it out and writes ‘self evident.’”
  —Walter Isaacson (20:49)
• “Yes, we all must hang together, or surely we’ll all hang separately.”
  —Benjamin Franklin, cited by Isaacson (25:26)
• “He wears, instead of a wig, he wears this backwoods fur cap...He just totally wins over the French people.”
  —Walter Isaacson (35:34)
• “Without France, we could not have won the Revolution.”
  —Walter Isaacson (44:40)
• “He was both the glue that held people together and the thread that tied our progress.”
  —Walter Isaacson (47:39)
• “The big moral challenge in life is knowing when to compromise and when to stand true to principle.”
  —Walter Isaacson (48:24)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Franklin and his son, William – the irreparable family schism: 02:44–03:45
• Franklin’s transition to activist and the Penn family fight: 04:58–06:32
• Franklin in London – lessons, humiliation, and failed compromise: 06:44–12:24
• Shift to revolutionary zeal, and the role in publishing 'Common Sense': 13:04–13:45
• Editing the Declaration of Independence: 20:49–23:36
• The symbolism of ‘Join, or Die’ and the Revolutionary snake: 25:59–26:46
• Franklin’s mission to France and his cultivated Persona: 33:39–36:26
• Life at Passy, relationships, and the Adams rivalry: 37:03–41:10
• Diplomatic practices and winning over the French: 42:11–44:35
• Franklin’s indispensable legacy and the art of compromise: 47:39–48:24

Notable Moments and Tone

• The episode’s tone is conversational, often witty, and underscores the blend of pragmatism, idealism, and subtle humor that defined Franklin’s political and personal approach.
• Isaacson and Ratliff emphasize Franklin’s gift for compromise, his foresight in editing “sacred” to “self-evident,” and his genius in using fashion and persona as diplomatic tools.
• The human side of Franklin is well illustrated—his rifts, passions, pragmatism, and capacity for reinvention—even in old age.
• The show closes with a reflection on Franklin’s moral complexity and a teaser for the next episode, discussing how Franklin navigated personal and national reckonings.

Conclusion

This episode positions Benjamin Franklin not simply as a founding icon but as the essential, adaptable diplomatic force who connected people, inspired revolutionary ideals, and made the American experiment possible—reminding listeners of both the personal costs and the collaborative spirit at the heart of democracy. Isaacson leaves listeners with the enduring lesson that democracy is not about unchecked passion but about “pulling things together” with pragmatism, compromise, and principle.