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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
ALEX HONNOLD: ONE Interview Before Free-Soloing Taiwan’s Tallest Building LIVE (This Episode Will Change Your Relationship with FEAR)
01:19:24
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- [00:00]
Host
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
Alex Honnold
The show was ahead of its time to represent a black family in ways that television hadn't shown before. Exactly.
- [00:10]
Host
It's Thelma Hopkins, also known as Aunt Rachel.
- [00:13]
Alex Honnold
And I'm Kelly Williams or Laura Winslow. On our podcast welcome to the Family with Thelma and Kelly. We're rewatching every episode of Family Matters. We'll share behind the scenes stories about making the show. Yeah, we'll even bring in some special.
- [00:26]
Host
Guests to spill some tea.
- [00:28]
Alex Honnold
Let's listen to welcome to the Family.
- [00:29]
Host
With Telma and Kelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:36]
Alex Honnold
Sami Gente.
- [00:37]
Host
It's Ana Ortiz.
- [00:38]
Alex Honnold
And I'm Markin Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and.
- [00:42]
Host
Justin from Ugly Betty. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty.
- [00:48]
Alex Honnold
Yay.
- [00:49]
Host
We're rewatching the series from start to.
- [00:51]
Alex Honnold
Finish and talking to iconic guests like Betty herself, America Ferreira. There was this moment when the glasses.
- [00:58]
Host
Went on and it. This is our Betty.
- [01:01]
Alex Honnold
Listen to Viva Betty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. We were in the car like a Rolling stone came on and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold onto what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories on my 13th season of family Secrets. Listen to Family secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Climbing still always has some edge to it because fundamentally you could die. I think that it changes your relationship with fear because you experience it a lot. Fear is just feeling some sensations in your body. If you're used to that state of discomfort, you're kinda like, oh, it's just another day.
- [01:56]
Host
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. I am so thankful that you're tuning in for a very special episode. Today's guest is someone that I've written about in my book, Think like a Monk. It's someone that I've mentioned in countly daily j meditations on the Calm app. It's someone's story that I've been fascinated with for quite some time. I'm speaking about Alex Honnold, one of the greatest climbers in history, an athlete who has expanded our understanding of Courage, focus and human potential. From his Oscar winning free solo ascent to his upcoming live climb of Taipei 101, Alex continues to push the boundaries of what's possible. He's the founder of the Honnold foundation, using his platform to bring solar energy to communities in need. Today we're diving into the mindset that makes it all possible. Please welcome to On Purpose, Alex Honnold. Alex, it's great to finally meet you.
- [02:50]
Alex Honnold
Oh, thanks. Yeah, it's an honor.
- [02:52]
Host
Yeah. I was so happy to hear that you'd actually already read.
- [02:55]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, just read the book in the.
- [02:56]
Host
Book where I mentioned you, which truly your story, your mindset has been fascinating to me for years. That book came out in 2020 and so I'm so excited that I actually get to sit down with the real human behind it today and get to actually learn from the master as opposed to my interpretations and my conceptions of what you may be doing.
- [03:18]
Alex Honnold
I think your interpretations are pretty good.
- [03:20]
Host
That's very kind. That's very kind of you. That means the world. I wanted to start with just getting straight into it. On January 23rd, you're climbing the tallest building in Taiwan. Why?
- [03:32]
Alex Honnold
Why? Because it's awesome. Because, because, because I get to, basically. Because. Yeah, it's. Because it'll be so fun. I mean. Yeah, basically it's. It's really hard to get permission to climb building and if you get permission, you kind of have to say yes. You know, it's like so many other sorts of life experiences where you're kind of like, well, it's a hard thing to do, but you get permission. You kind of just have to go do it.
- [03:52]
Host
And you've been wanting to climb this building for quite some time, right?
- [03:54]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, I actually scouted it for a different TV thing that fell apart in 2013, I think. So for the last, you know, 12 years, I've known that it was possible. I knew that it's. I mean the building is honestly uniquely suited for climbing. It's. It's kind of perfect. It's amazing. It's. And it's a really beautiful building. I mean, I don't think that many people know what it looks like, but it's.
- [04:12]
Host
I looked at it before.
- [04:13]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, it's singular, it's striking. I mean, you saw how it sticks out of the cityscape. I mean, it's incredible. So it's, it's just, it's so cool. But so 12 years ago or so I scouted it and realized that I could do it and was like, this is amazing. But never got the opportunity. And so now I get the opportunity.
- [04:30]
Host
I love that. And, and is this building that fascinating to you because of the architecture, because of this cityscape? Is that how you choose what you feel inspired to climb?
- [04:39]
Alex Honnold
I mean, a little bit. I think in general with rock formations, you know, there are always a bunch of the different things that go into choosing a cool objective, but part of it is, uh, you know, the aesthetic beauty of it. Like, is it striking? Does it, does it catch the eye? Is it beautiful? Um, I mean, part of it is in rock climbing is sort of like the mythology of it, you know, like the climbing history, like, is it important to climbers? Um, and so I think with building is. It's kind of the same way, like, is it striking, is it beautiful, Is it possible? Which in this case it's kind of in the perfect sweet spot where it's possible and it's challenging, but it's not insanely challenging because if you're going to do something for a TV program, it has to be, uh, well, you just have to be able to do it on command, you know, and so, so you don't want it to be, you know, cutting edge, cutting like the hardest thing ever done. You want it to be kind of in a sweet spot where you're like, this is challenging and it's gonna, you know, keep me focused, but it's not insanely difficult.
- [05:29]
Host
You started climbing really young, right?
- [05:31]
Alex Honnold
Well, 10ish. Which actually nowadays elite climbers all start even younger. But. But yeah, I was lucky enough to start as a kid.
- [05:39]
Host
And was it always the plan for it to be a professional pursuit?
- [05:42]
Alex Honnold
No, no, just no. My parents are both professors and you know, they were supportive and like, thing that you like to do. But I mean, especially when I was young, climbing was way more fringe, way more niche. And so nobody was a professional climber, you know, but thankfully, as I grew up, that kind of climbing has also grown up quite a bit. Climbing's in the Olympics now. It's just way bigger of a sport, so it's a little less unusual and there's just more money in it now so you can actually make a living.
- [06:06]
Host
And you know, was there a moment that you felt that you were. You're like, oh, I'm actually good at this. Like, this is real. Like, when did that happen for the.
- [06:13]
Alex Honnold
No, not really. No. I mean, for years I thought that I would wind up being a mountain guide or something. Then, you know, I just wanted to. I figured I'd get some kind of job within the Climbing world. And then, you know, I picked up some sponsors and started getting my gear for free. And. And I was living in a van by myself. So it's pretty. Pretty low overhead. You're kind of just living and. And then eventually you're kind of like, oh, I'm making a living doing this thing I love to do. And then eventually you're making a little more. And. And then I was like, oh, I mean, it took years until I really thought of myself as a professional climber. You know, at first it was just kind of like I'm a. Basically a homeless person living in a van who happens to get climbing shoes for free. And you're like, oh, that's cool. But that's different than feeling like you're actually going to make a living as a. As a rock climber.
- [06:53]
Host
And so you were doing this even when it. There was. There was no money. There was. This was what you. What you were chasing. It's not. You were working another job and doing this on the side?
- [07:02]
Alex Honnold
No, I mean, I did work. You know, like, I worked in my climbing gym when I was a kid, and, you know, I worked a little bit on the side, but. But no, basically I've just been trying to climb my whole life.
- [07:10]
Host
Well, what was the first climb that you did that was challenging and risky or some sort of, like, real?
- [07:17]
Alex Honnold
I mean, I think as I started to dabble outdoors because I grew up in suburban Californ, like, in Sacramento, and so I would just ride my bicycle to the climbing gym. And so for the first, you know, eight years of my climbing life is just going climbing at the gym. Um, so, I mean, it's super fun and you can learn all the skills that way, but it's not particularly extreme or anything. It's not like, you know, it's not what people think of as adventure. And then once I learned how to drive and then started, like, borrowing the family car and started going outside more, then I started having some of the adventures that I think characterize, you know, what people think of as extreme rock climbing and all that.
- [07:51]
Host
Yeah. What's the experience for you? Like, is it the thrill? Is it the fascination? What part of it gives you life and brings you alive? Like, what part of it gives you joy?
- [08:02]
Alex Honnold
I mean, I think at the core is just the movement of climbing. Like, I literally just came here from the climbing gym because I had a little time.
- [08:08]
Host
I can see on your hands.
- [08:09]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, yeah. I didn't watch my hands, but. But yeah, it's like there's a. There's A climbing gym relatively nearby. And I was like, oh, perfect. So just a quick session basically just rapid fired problems around the gy, uh, bouldering gyms are just short and you know, safe and I just did an hour as fast as I could and now I'm tired. I'm like, what a nice day. So it's really just the movement of, of climbing I think is, is the, the at the core that's the joy of it. But then beyond that there's the, the challenge, you know, like overcoming fears, you know, as a professional climber. I mean the travel involved in it, like seeing the world, being outdoors in nature, having you know, beautiful experiences out all your friends. I mean there are all these other things that are amazing about climbing, but I think the thing that always brings me back to is I just like climbing. You know, it's like running or swimming or other sort of like elemental movement patterns. It just feels good to do the thing.
- [08:54]
Host
Yeah. Tell me about the actual skill of climbing for someone who isn't a climber.
- [08:58]
Alex Honnold
You haven't climbed at all?
- [08:59]
Host
I have. I don't think I've climbed at all. I'm trying to think about it in my life. I don't think I've ever climbed. And so I would love to understand like talk to me about the actual skill of climbing as if you were training me.
- [09:09]
Alex Honnold
Even as a kid you never climbed on things?
- [09:11]
Host
Oh yeah, I did. Oh yeah. Of course. I love climbing on things. I wanted to do parkour. My kids, my parents would never let me parkour. Parkour was like my fascination. I saw kids doing parkour. I was like, that's so cool. I love climbing trees, I love climbing walls.
- [09:23]
Alex Honnold
Yeah.
- [09:23]
Host
So I think a lot of gates I've climbed like that. But I mean like I've never.
- [09:27]
Alex Honnold
Well, I think that's the same thing basically. And that's actually, I think one of the interesting things, you know, with this building thing coming up, people are like, why would you climb a building? I'm kind of like, well as a kid I climbed all the buildings around my home. I climbed all the trees. I fell out of trees quite a lot.
- [09:38]
Host
Me too.
- [09:38]
Alex Honnold
And you know, I'm kind of like.
- [09:40]
Host
Dislocated my wrist doing that.
- [09:41]
Alex Honnold
Oh yeah, there you go. Yeah, I broke, broke my arm three times as a kid falling off play structures and, and once in the climbing gym. But, but yeah, I mean basically most kids, it feels like love that kind of play and I think it's pretty normal to play on things in that way. And so it's interesting that now as an adult, people like, why would you do that? And you're kind of like, because it's awesome. Because it's so fun. It's like the same reason the kids like to do that, because it's, it's. It's cool.
- [10:04]
Host
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I still love a ropes course, like, you know, if I have it, but I get the play bit. But what are the skills that you've had to build to actually be able to do this professionally? Because there's a difference between I love the play and then, you know, I'm going to climb the 11 tallest building in the world. Like, what's, what's, what's the training? What's the skill level? Talk to me about the mastery from zero to where you are today. What are the steps that it's taken to?
- [10:30]
Alex Honnold
I mean, yeah, I'm like, in some ways, you just go and do the thing all the time and you get better at it. You know, on the other hand, it's like, I've been. Yeah, I've been climbing probably five days a week for 30 years. You're like, oh, you're bound to slowly get better at something if you put that much effort into it. Um, but, yeah, I mean, I guess the. I mean, it comes down to movement. Like, how well do you move your body? Like, transferring your weight over your feet. Like, in theory, your legs should be driving you for most things. I mean, people think of climbing as pulling with your arms, but really you should think of it as. As climbing a steep, steep staircase. So you should be driving with your legs and you should be using your hands almost like you were on a handrail, like, for balance. Um, you know, obviously, if a climb is more than vertical, then you have to hang on with your arms more. But still, you should be driving as much as you can through your feet. So it comes down to technique and, you know, body position where you. How you use your hips, all that kind of stuff. But, you know, in some ways, I think that overcomplicates it, though. It's like, really, you just go and you. And you try. You know, you just go climbing.
- [11:24]
Host
I. I love, I love how casual you make it sound. When I'm thinking, like, in my head, I'm thinking, well, you never skip leg day because you need to work on that. Like, are there certain muscle groups that you just need to be proficient at and prolific at so that you can be a better climber?
- [11:38]
Alex Honnold
I mean, climbing is very full body, so it's like, basically use everything I Mean, if you could just like turn the dials on something. If you could turn your finger strength to infinity, then you'd be a great climber. You know, it's like basically, if you can hold onto things very, very well, then basically you can, you can climb.
- [11:53]
Host
Well, how do you build your finger strength at?
- [11:55]
Alex Honnold
Well, sadly, I'm. Finger strength is probably my biggest weakness as a climber. It's probably the one thing that. It's probably the thing that I'm worst at overall, especially compared to my peers. Like other professional climbers, um, I've always been sort of better with sort of full body. Like, I think I, I have good technique and so I can transfer a lot of weight to my feet and sort of keep them off my fingers. Cause my fingers aren' strong. Um, but in general, you build finger strength the same way you build any other strength. You basically load your fingers and finger strength is actually your forearm strength. It's like your, you know. Cause you control your hand like through your forearm.
- [12:24]
Host
Yeah, grip strength.
- [12:25]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, grip strength. And so you just build that by, you know, hanging from small edges or hanging with more weight on you. Just, you know, you build up.
- [12:33]
Host
How many hours do you spend training per week?
- [12:37]
Alex Honnold
Um, I can probably spend, you know, three to five hours in a session climbing. And I can do that maybe five days a week or so is it. But that doesn't totally do. You know, some of the days that I go, you know, quote unquote climbing, I'm going soloing in the mountains or something. And so of that time, a chunk of it is hiking into the thing, some of it's climbing the thing, some of it's like eating lunch on top and trying to figure out where the next. How to get off the mountain or whatever, you know what I mean? Like there sometimes you can have a six or eight hour day in the mountains and you're kind of like strolling, but it's all very low intensity. You're kind of like wandering through the mountains and figuring out what you're doing. It's not like, it's not like, it's.
- [13:11]
Host
Not intense the whole time, is it?
- [13:13]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, it's not like Michael Phelps training in the pool or something. You know what I mean? You're like wandering around the mountains, like slightly confused, trying to figure out. And I mean, sometimes you walk into the mountains, it turns out it's cold and raining, and then you walk back and you're kind of like, well, I didn't actually climb anything. And that's just the way it goes when you need count like hours of training. And actually so in the past I, I used to have a training journal where I did keep track of hours and now I don't really keep track of time because that's not really the best metric, I don't think is more around effort and you know, like what you've actually done. Yeah, it's like, because some days you spend a ton of time but you don't do that much. And then other days in a couple hours you can get completely destroyed because you're going super hard.
- [13:47]
Host
Yeah. What's, what's been your favorite place? You've got lost?
- [13:51]
Alex Honnold
That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, I live in Las Vegas and Red Rock Conservation area is like this big world famous climbing destination like just outside of town and I live near it and I climb in Red Rock all the time and I still get lost all the time. It's like really complicated sandstone canyons, like folds of rock and, you know, tricky. It's just. Yeah. I mean it's crazy because every season I'm like, where the trail go? I'm like, oh, I live here and I hike this all the time. And I'm like, how am I still lost? But you know, that's the, that's the joy of being outdoors really.
- [14:22]
Host
When you talk about the mindset as well, you were saying half of it is, you know, the beauty of the landscape or the rock formation. And you said the other half is just your fascination with overcoming fear and, and the mindset piece. I imagine being lost while doing something you love is quite a special feeling, it seems that you've made friends with.
- [14:38]
Alex Honnold
I mean, I've never really. Actually there only been a couple times I've been like, lost, lost. Like once actually climbing a thing in South Africa I thought I was going to have to drop into. Now I forget what's the neighboring country to the north. We were right on the border, like north of Johannesburg. I forget what the next country north is, but. But basically I thought I was going to have to drop over the border like into another country basically go find a village on a mountain basically. And you could see villages off in the distance. But I was like, couldn't find my way back to where I was supposed to and was kind of like, I'm just going to go fully rogue here and just have to like borrow somebody's phone and try to find a way to contact the people that I'm supposed to be. But ultimately I found my way eventually showed up hours late and totally torn to shreds from, like, crawling through the bushes, all confused. But. So I've only had a few experiences like that where I'm lost. Lost. Um, for the most part, you always have a sense of where you're supposed to be going. You're just not on the trail or, you know, you can't find the best way. Yeah, but that is. I mean, that is kind of the joy of climbing, is you just have tons of experiences like that where you're like, I'm doing some crazy thing.
- [15:37]
Host
I. I read that in 2016, neuroscientists conducted a brain scan and found that your amygdala responded much less to fear than the average person. Did you always feel that way growing up?
- [15:49]
Alex Honnold
No, but I. Well, so this is part of a longer thing, but I would suspect that your amygdala probably responds less to fear than the average person. Just in the same way, like, years of meditation will do the same thing. It's like you're just not going to respond to stimulus in the same way. And so for me, I see that as. Basically, I've been getting afraid. I've been consistently experiencing fear all the time as a climber, you know, for years. And so then the test they. They did for that particular brain scan, you know, you're in fmri, and then you look at these black and white photos, and I'm like, well, obviously looking at photos while I'm lying down inside a sealed tube is just not scary. You know, if you spend your whole life getting scared all the time, that's not scary. And in the same way that I'm sure if somebody scans your brain, it's going to be different than average because you spent a ton of time working on it. Basically, you're kind of like, that seems totally reasonable. You know, it's like, I don't know, it's a shame because there's a scene in Free Solo, you know, they show a little clip from that when. And basically everyone watching the movie comes out of like, well, there's something wrong with his brain. And you're like, no. The takeaway is that if you practice something your whole life, you get better at it. It's like, that's. That's the real lesson.
- [16:49]
Host
Yeah, that. I mean, now looking at it from your perspective, that makes a lot of sense in that you're. You're right that when you're doing those tests, it will rarely be as scary as something you've done in reality.
- [17:01]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, I mean, it's like, I get tons of questions around fear and like, managing fear and all that. And, and, you know, my answers have obviously, like, changed over time. And I've like, thought about fear a ton in my life and, and now honestly, I'm always like, you know, it's been 30 years. I've been climbing all the time. And climbing is really scary. Like, you're always scared, at least a little bit as a climber, because there always consequences. And climbing, even if you're climbing with the rope and you're using protection, you're still always a little bit on edge because, you know, you're like, what if the rope cut? Like, what if, you know, I didn't tie my knot? Like, there are always these what ifs? And so you're always a little bit afraid. And so I think that it changes your relationship with fear because you're just scared all the time. I mean, you know, not like deep fear, but there's always an. An edge to it. And so I think that puts all the other fear in life sort of in perspective. You know, it gets you good at managing fear because you, you experience it a lot.
- [17:48]
Host
How do you moderate it or regulate it? In that moment when you've got to place the next step, you've got to reach for something else. You've got to keep moving. Because I think that's. You're spot on. By the way, I love the way you're talking about fear because I think you're absolutely right, that if you're constantly in a state of discomfort, but you have the right mindset, because a lot of people in the state of discomfort, but then they overthink or they procrastinate or they get stuck.
- [18:12]
Alex Honnold
I think it's like, if it's their first time in a state of discomfort, then it's pretty overwhelming. But if you're used to that state of discomfort, you're kind of like, oh, it's just another day, you know? And I think that's the thing with climbing is that a lot of the time, you know, you're a little bit scared, but you just totally ignore it because the rational part of your mind is like, this is fine. Like, your harness is on. Like, everything is safe. The rope is safe, you're totally fine. And so you just ignore it. But then occasionally you're like, oh, I'm scared because I'm in danger. And so then you're kind of like, oh, I should think about this and sort of evaluate, like, is, you know, am I going to be okay? Is there. Should I. Should I take different actions Should I try to mitigate this in some ways? So I don't. I mean, you know, it totally depends. But that's the thing as a climber is you're constantly balancing those kinds of things. Like, is this fear well founded? Should I act upon it in some way? Should I do something? Should I not? You know?
- [18:56]
Host
Yeah. And so, so your relationship with fear seems just very neutral in the sense of you having a conversation with it. It's like every other.
- [19:03]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. Why? I sometimes, I mean, fear is a sensation in your body, same as like lots of other things. And so I've used this analogy before, but I'm kind of like, it's like hunger, you know, it's like when you experience hunger, you're not like, oh my God, I'm hungry, I need a sandwich right now. You're just kind of like, okay, I should e some point. And I feel like, I think because people experience fear much less frequently, it feels more overwhelming. But, you know, if you experience fear with the same regularity that you experience hunger, then you're kind of like, okay, like, I'll deal with that in due time. Like, when it makes sense, I'll manage that. But fundamentally, feeling fear is just feeling some sensations in your body or so. Like, it's not like, doesn't matter more or less than any other thing that you feel in your body, really, unless it's telling you you're about to die, in which case you should pay attention.
- [19:47]
Host
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Do you, do you feel that, that what you just said about the more frequently you are exposed to fear, the less fear affects you. Does that translate from the physical sensation to when you're having emotional, relational challenges as well?
- [20:02]
Alex Honnold
Probably less so than my wife wishes. You know?
- [20:07]
Host
You know what I mean? Right?
- [20:08]
Alex Honnold
I think it does a little bit. Probably because, you know, to some extent managing fear is managing fear. Yes. But it is a little bit of what you practice. Like, I think I'm really good at dealing with like, physical fear, like physical risk and things where I'm like, I feel like I'm in danger less so. I mean, public speaking I was horrified of for a long time, but again, with tons of practice, gotten much more comfortable. It's fine. And then like relationship bull stuff. I'm sort of like, well, that's. I mean, my wife would say there's still a long ways to go.
- [20:35]
Host
Yeah. Talk to me about the difference between, like, the fear of what you do, which most of us would see as that is scary, and then public speaking, which is known as one of the scariest to do, I mean, on planet Earth, like, talk to me about the differences.
- [20:48]
Alex Honnold
No, I think it's really similar. I mean, I think most people are. I mean, I was definitely more afraid of public speaking than. Than climbing, but obviously, you know, I love climbing. I spent my whole life doing it.
- [20:57]
Host
Yeah.
- [20:58]
Alex Honnold
But public speaking is. Is horrifying, though. That said, now that I've had a lot of practice with it, I would say that it's not that scary. Whereas climbing still always has some edge to it, because fundamentally, you could die. Yeah. You know, with public speaking, it, like, feels like you might die, but you're just, you know, it's fine.
- [21:16]
Host
Yeah.
- [21:16]
Alex Honnold
Like, you can always go out and, like, make a fool yourself, and it doesn't really matter.
- [21:19]
Host
Well, that's. That's what I'm saying. Right. Like, the reason why we get scared of doing things that. Where there isn't a cost is because we almost make it out. Like, there is a higher stake to it.
- [21:29]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. But I think that with a little bit of practice, you realize that there just isn't that high of a stake. Like, you know, when you haven't done it before, you're like, what if they laugh at you? And then you're like, what if they do? Like, who cares? You know, it turns out it's totally fine. Doesn't matter.
- [21:41]
Host
Yeah.
- [21:41]
Alex Honnold
You know, but with. With some of the physical fear stuff, you're kind of like, well, I mean, it does matter if you fall to your death or.
- [21:47]
Host
Yeah.
- [21:47]
Alex Honnold
You know, so those, you know, that will always have some edge to it.
- [21:52]
Host
Yeah. And so how do you process that in the moment when those. When that's what you're thinking?
- [21:56]
Alex Honnold
I mean, it depends sometimes, you know, first take some deep breaths, compose yourself. Sort of like, try to deal. I mean, the thing with climbing is that there's never any time pressure to it. So you can just stand there, basically.
- [22:08]
Host
Wow.
- [22:09]
Alex Honnold
You know, even if you're clinging to the rock, like, maintaining a static position is typically not like, that hard. So you can just hold on, take some deep breaths, take your time, get composed, and then try to decide whether or not, you know, it's like, sometimes you get really scared for no particular reason. Um, and then other times you're kind of like, oh, it turns out that I, you know, misjudged the rock quality, and this is much more dangerous than I thought it was. And, like, maybe I should bail. And so, I mean, I've bailed off all kinds of things where you climb partway up something and you're like, this is not for me. And you climb back down.
- [22:37]
Host
That's interesting to hear. So you. You're okay with knowing your edge and knowing your limit? There's not.
- [22:43]
Alex Honnold
I mean, and the thing with free soling is that you always have to stay well within your limits. You know, it's like. Because, like, when you're climbing with a rope, you're always trying to push yourself, like, sort of beyond your limits so that you can learn and grow and everything. But if you're free soloing, you stay well within your comfort zone because obviously, you just can't fall off.
- [22:58]
Host
And that's what this next climb is, right?
- [22:59]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, this next climb is freestyling, but it should be. I mean, it's interesting. It should be well within my physical comfort zone. Like, you know, I should be able to physically comment, but the sort of exciting thing for me is that I've just never climbed a building like that before. And so. So I think even though I'm very confident in my physical ability to do it, I'm still kind of like, well, I'm doing a new thing. And so that's always a little bit exciting.
- [23:21]
Host
Yes. Yeah, I love that as well. I. I feel like what I really appreciate, with how we're talking about fear right now and through your reflection on it, is that there's a sense of recognizing that anytime I do something new, I'll feel a sense of discomfort or fear. And that's a good thing because that means I'm trying something new.
- [23:40]
Alex Honnold
Well, and that's the whole thing is, like, are you experiencing fear? Are you experiencing nervousness or excitement or, you know, because a lot of those things are the same sensation in your body. Really. You're like, oh, I'm, like, a little nervous, or I'm feeling, like, butterflies, and I feel tingling, and I'm on edge, and I feel heightened. And you're like, am I afraid or am I excited? Like, I don't know. I mean, it's hard to exactly pinpoint some of those kinds of things. And so. So I think it's. You just don't want to put too fine a point on, like, I'm scared. Cause you're like. Or you're just psyched. Yeah. Like, I know that when I get to the bottom of the building, like, actually, surprisingly, the first move off the ground is one of the harder moves on the climb. And you kind of have to, like, jump up and catch this thing and, like, start climbing. And, like, basically, taking the first step on a building is, like, one of the hardest And I'm sure I'm going to be a little nervous and a little tight and just kind of like, oh, this is, you know, with cameras and people and a whole spectacle and be like crazy y. Just going to be like, you know, I'm nervous, but does that mean I'm scared? I'm like, I mean, we'll see. I don't think so, but I think it'll be exciting for sure.
- [24:36]
Host
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. No, I, I mean, not that I've done anything that I think is that hard, but anything I've ever done for the first time.
- [24:43]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, it's scary.
- [24:44]
Host
Even if I've done it for a long time, it's still nerve wracking. Like I said, not comparing anything at all. But yes, for me, if I was going into a longer meditation than I've ever done before.
- [24:53]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, it'd be like, this is a new step.
- [24:55]
Host
Absolutely. I'm still nervous.
- [24:56]
Alex Honnold
And again, what is, what is the longest meditation you've done? What's considered like a long meditation?
- [25:01]
Host
So we would do a minimum of four to eight hours a day in blocks or something in, in full chunks. Like you could do four together or eight together.
- [25:10]
Alex Honnold
Dude.
- [25:10]
Host
Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. But the longest one that was eight hours. The longest one I've ever done is probably just under 24 hours. Yeah, the longest. Yeah.
- [25:21]
Alex Honnold
Wow. How deep did you go?
- [25:23]
Host
It was one of the ones I don't talk about. It was, it was one of the best most. Because what, what we learned through length of meditation was not to show how long you can meditate. It was the ability to have to disconnect from the body because you have to go beyond the body to be that present in the moment because you'll start. And I mean yours is much harder. But like, you start feeling an ache or a pain, you start itching, you start mentally getting lost when your back.
- [25:51]
Alex Honnold
Hurts and your heart hurts.
- [25:52]
Host
Totally. So you've got to go beyond the body and the mind in 24 hours.
- [25:55]
Alex Honnold
You get hungry, you have to go to the bathroom. Like.
- [25:58]
Host
Yeah, no, you're fasting to make it easier. But. Yeah, but.
- [26:01]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, but does that make it easier? I mean, it makes it easier to. But you know, because just fasting for 24 hours is its own challenge.
- [26:07]
Host
Yeah, we, we would do it often enough so it wasn't, it wasn't. Again, it's what you just said about. It's what you practice when you, when you're practicing it. It's, it doesn't sound that crazy for me to say out loud. Because I know other monks who've done it for three days and seven days and, you know, for. For longer than far.
- [26:21]
Alex Honnold
Can people meditate for seven days?
- [26:23]
Host
Oh, absolutely. For really there. There are like. They're like. There's some people that. I mean, yeah, I'm. I'm like a complete beginner when it the realm of real, you know, work that some of these incredible people that I got to meet have done.
- [26:36]
Alex Honnold
Seven days is a long time to sit.
- [26:38]
Host
Yeah, it's a long time to sit. Maybe not good.
- [26:42]
Alex Honnold
It feels like more than you might need.
- [26:43]
Host
Yeah, exactly. Well, it's. It's always like that interesting thing where I remember when I was starting to do cold plunges in the beginning, I'd always be like, what's the right amount of time to be in a cold plunge?
- [26:53]
Alex Honnold
And when I was zero.
- [26:56]
Host
I was going to ask you how long you probably do Forever.
- [26:58]
Alex Honnold
No, no, I don't do that kind of thing.
- [27:00]
Host
Oh, you don't?
- [27:00]
Alex Honnold
But it's because I'm kind of like. Like, I don't think it matters. Like, I don't think it makes me a better. So, you know, if I was convinced that this would, like, change my life, then I'm like, yeah, I'm sure I could do that. You know, mind over matter, whatever. But there are a lot of things like that. Same with meditation, where I'm like, if I thought this was the path and, like, that would help me send, you know, like, climb harder. And I'm like, yeah, I would do that.
- [27:18]
Host
Yeah.
- [27:18]
Alex Honnold
But if I don't think so, then I'm like, no, I take a hot shower.
- [27:21]
Host
I love that. I love that. But no, it's. It's. What I was saying was that when I first started to do it, it was. There's. There's the ego number because it makes you feel better, but then there's the number that's actually good for your health. So I think most health experts would say three to seven minutes in there is amazing. But then people will be like, I was in there for 15 minutes, but it's almost like it doesn't. It's not that active after the seven minutes because your body's regulated and now it's not a challenge or a shock anymore.
- [27:46]
Alex Honnold
And after 20, you're dead. So you know.
- [27:48]
Host
Exactly.
- [27:48]
Alex Honnold
It's not a real benefit.
- [27:49]
Host
It's not actually happened. So has there ever been anything you're like, I really want to climb that, but actually it's too risky and I. I wouldn't even bother. Like you said, you Bail buttons.
- [27:57]
Alex Honnold
Okay. So actually, so in the context of the building, when the idea of climbing a skyscraper for a live thing came up, you know, whatever, 12 years ago or something, when we first scouted, the first thing I scouted was the Burj Khalifa. It was the tallest building in the world in Dubai. And it's possible you can climb it. I mean, I was able to do the moves on it, but it's, it's cutting edge, basically. It's like very, very hard.
- [28:18]
Host
And how high did you get?
- [28:19]
Alex Honnold
I could climb the building with a rope. You know, I climb the outside, but it's, it's just very hard. And also it's hard in the wrong ways. It's like very slippery and very, very finicky. Like you could imagine just slipping off at any moment. So basically of like it. It was kind of like the El cap of free soling or something. I was like, sure, if I devoted myself to this, I like moved to Dubai and just like lived on this building. It's like, yeah, it's possible, you know, like it can physically be done with the proper commitment and everything, but for a TV program. And I was like, no, this is crazy. Like, I'd actually started thinking about using like a, like a D day style parachute. You know, like old school military parachutes. Like a modern parachute is like a wing has a direction to it. So it's actually not that helpful for something like a building because you'd have to be able to get a clean exit away from the building and turn away from it and face the correct direction. Because if you're, if you deployed your parachute and you went into the building, you just crumble and collapse and die. So anyway, but so like a drop parachute, just like an old school, like what you imagine, like GI Joe using that just go straight down. When I was playing on the verge, I was kind of like, well, maybe I'd use something like that. Because then if, you know, you did slip, at least you could just basically plummet straight down the face of the building. Like, it might kind of be okay, you know, maybe you'd break your ankle at the bottom, but you're not going to die. And so, you know, I started considering ideas like that. I was like, this is all crazy. This is too much. Like, this is too extreme, basically. And so, I mean, that's an example of a climb where I'm like, yeah, it's possible, like somebody could do it, but it's just way outside what I think is reasonable.
- [29:40]
Host
Yeah.
- [29:41]
Alex Honnold
Um, but then when I went and scouted typo 101. I was kind of like, oh, it has all the same features of a striking building. That's like the biggest thing in the whole landscape. It's amazing. But the style of climbing is way more secure. Like, the things that you're grabbing are way less slippery, and they. The shape of them works better. Like, you just hold on better. I was just like, oh, this is the type of challenge I'm looking for. Yeah.
- [30:03]
Host
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder whether now, after this, they're going to start building buildings for you to climb. That's what's going to happen.
- [30:10]
Alex Honnold
I don't think architects even. I don't even think it crosses their mind, like, what humans can hold on the outside, because it's interesting. I mean, some buildings are just completely impossible because they're just smooth metal and glass. And then other buildings are like a ladder. You know, it's almost like a jungle gym where it's, like, too easy. It's kind of trivial. Like, anybody could walk up and do it if they wanted to.
- [30:26]
Host
Yes.
- [30:27]
Alex Honnold
Like, the New York Times building in. In New York City has been climbed by a handful of random people. And, like, some just random dude off the street just climbed, like, half the building because it's like a scaffolding, basically. You're kind of like, well, that's not the challenge that I'm looking for because I've spent my whole life practicing this thing. I want to do something that's hard enough that it feels meaningful to me. Did you know Tide has been upgraded.
- [30:55]
Host
To provide an even better clean in cold water?
- [30:58]
Alex Honnold
Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold butter. Yep. Chocolate ice cream. Sure thing.
- [31:07]
Host
Barbecue sauce. Tide's got you covered.
- [31:10]
Alex Honnold
You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be Tide. Hi, I'm Radhi Devlukia, and I am.
- [31:24]
Host
The host of a really good cry podcast. This week, I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the Crappy Childhood Fairy, a creator, teacher, and guide, helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods. We talk about how the things we went through when we were younger can.
- [31:40]
Alex Honnold
Still show up in our adult lives.
- [31:41]
Host
In our relationships, our reactions, even in the way we feel in our own bodies. And Anna opens up about her own story. What helped her notice the patterns she was stuck in and how she slowly started teaching her body that it is safe now. So when I got attacked, it was very random.
- [31:57]
Alex Honnold
Four guys jumped out of a car.
- [31:58]
Host
And just started beating me and my friend.
- [32:00]
Alex Honnold
And they broke my jaw and my teeth.
- [32:02]
Host
I was unconscious. Then I woke up and I screamed and I screamed because even though I.
- [32:07]
Alex Honnold
Didn'T know who I was or where I was, something in me was just like, hold on, wait, they could kill me.
- [32:12]
Host
And I'm not going to let that happen. I'm not going to let that happen.
- [32:15]
Alex Honnold
I'm going to get through this.
- [32:16]
Host
And I did listen to a really.
- [32:18]
Alex Honnold
Good cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.
- [32:20]
Host
Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [32:23]
Alex Honnold
No one is harmed. No death, no trauma. Just a few cells grown in a dish. This is David Eagleman from the Intercosmos podcast. And this week we're tackling a tough question where brain science meets the future. Lab Grown meat is going to force us to confront the boundaries of our ethics and our imagination. It invites us to question why we draw lines exactly, exactly where we do and whether those lines are drawn in ink or in pencil. And what does this have to do with sanctity, brain plasticity, social belonging, messed up boundaries between mental categories, flesh copyrights, and the future of personhood. What is the table we're going to set for ourselves? What does this question uncover about brain science and our calculation, calculations of morality? Listen to Inner Cosmos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:32]
Host
How do you prepare for a climb? So you scout it out, but how do you, how do you then prepare? Like, how are you preparing right now for?
- [33:38]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, I actually just started all my training type stuff for it. Um, it's funny, I did the scout in September because they have to do it far out to, you know, assemble the crew and plan the filming and all that kind of stuff. And so, and it was funny because I was super psyched at the time. Like, you go and scout it, you're like, God, this is so cool. I'm so excited. Like, I want to do this next week. You know, I'm like, let's do this. I'm ready. But then I kind of had to just sit on it for, you know, a couple months just because it's scheduled for January and so, and so now sort of two and a half months out, I've started like properly training. You just don't want to start like really training too far out because then and you'll just get like injured and tired and, you know, it's like you kind of want to Peak at the right time. And so, yeah, I'm just. I don't know, like, all the. All the ways you normally train, like, eating really well, sleeping really well, exercising a tremendous amount, and just kind of trying to ramp up my volume so that I feel incredibly fit when the time comes.
- [34:27]
Host
And that's so interesting that you said you have to peak at the right time. So have you learned how to do that over time? I assume, because in my head, I'm thinking, oh, wait, for something this big, you'd prepare six months in advance. But I love what you're saying, actually. Yeah.
- [34:40]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. Like a training block, normally you can only sustain, say, three to six weeks of hard effort before you kind of need, like, a deload time. Like, basically, you can only build for a certain amount of time, and then you need some kind of natural rest, and then you can start building again. And so, ideally, you sort of, like, naturally build up over time, but if you were, say, six months out from an event, you'd have to have a pretty sophisticated, like, I'm gonna train really hard for a month, but then rest for, like, a week or two, and then train really hard. You know, you need, like, a complicated plan. In this case, I have a relatively simple plan in that I'm basically just ramping until the building. And I kind of started my training maybe a little prematurely. I was all psyched, and so I think I'm gonna take a little deload time around Christmas, which actually works perfectly with the holidays and things. Cause I think I'll basically wind up doing six weeks or so and then have, like, a week at Christmas where I kind of chill and then do another three or four weeks and then do the thing.
- [35:26]
Host
You sound just like us, Alex. No.
- [35:28]
Alex Honnold
Well, it just seems it was all kind of perfectly, you know, I think it should be perfect. But we'll see so far. So far, I'm responding well and feel really strong, and. Yes. Great.
- [35:37]
Host
I love hearing that, man.
- [35:38]
Alex Honnold
Yeah.
- [35:38]
Host
No, I'm excited to see it. Like, I. I'm so. I'm so thr. Thrilled it's. To do it live is just, you know, you're giving us a real treat. Like, I think, you know, it's interesting.
- [35:48]
Alex Honnold
Though, because, like, for me, the live thing doesn't. If anything, it makes it more chill, because normally when you shoot a documentary, you go and you do the thing, and then you have to go back and film on it, and you have to shoot pickups and shoot audio and, like, do all this extra work, basically. And so, you know, it's this tremendous amount of effort. But for the live event, I'm kind of like I'm going to go and I'm going to do it and then I'm going to fly home and I'm done. It's totally amazing. It's like as soon as I do the climb, I'm totally done.
- [36:12]
Host
Yeah. Us, it's more fun because we get to be there with you.
- [36:15]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, yeah. But I just don't, you know, I basically don't totally care, you know, about like other people experience, like. Because.
- [36:22]
Host
Oh, you don't. Oh.
- [36:23]
Alex Honnold
So. I mean, not, not really, you know.
- [36:25]
Host
Oh, interesting. Okay.
- [36:26]
Alex Honnold
Sort of like if it was a film about it, like, that'd be fine for me. To the live thing. Basically. I want to, I want to do a climb that I'm proud of. Like, I'm excited about climbing it and the way other people experience that, I'm kind of like, you know.
- [36:37]
Host
Yeah.
- [36:38]
Alex Honnold
I mean, I don't want to say I don't care because I want other people to have, you know, a good time from it. But like, you know, that's not the priority. You know what I mean? Yeah.
- [36:46]
Host
Well, you're just doing it because you love it.
- [36:48]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's kind of the thing.
- [36:49]
Host
And I think, yeah, that's brilliant. What a great place. I think everyone wants to live that way. You do it because you love it. It doesn't really matter.
- [36:57]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. It's funny, like, when it first got announced as a project, there was, you know, the sort of expected online hate and stuff from people in the climbing community being like, why would you do that? That's stupid. Why climb building is too risky or like, you know, whatever, you know, criticism for various reasons, but I was kind of like, man, wait till you see the thing. It's so cool. It's so fun. You know, if you had the opportunity to do this, you would do it too. Because like, any climber would say yes to this. Cause it's, it's super fun. And any, you know, like getting an opportunity to do something amazing, it's like, why would you ever say no to that? But my goal for the, you know, if I can say I have a goal for the building, I mean, other than climbing, it is just to actually have fun doing it. Because I'm kind of like, that's what I want people to see from it. Like, this is awesome. You know, not like some death defying stunt. It should be like, this is amazing. Like, this is so fun. This is joyous, you know, yeah, absolutely. We'll see.
- [37:45]
Host
Yeah. I love how playful you make it. Because appealing to that part, I think we can all relate to that. When it was just. When it was playful, when it was exciting, when it was.
- [37:53]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, I know. It's like, that's the thing, is it gets wrapped in all this. Like, it's extreme. And you're kind of like, yes. I mean, yes, it's very high consequence. Like, if I make a mistake, if I totally botch something, I could die. And you're like, yeah, that's. You don't want to downplay that too much. Much. But at the same time, it's pretty fun. And the thing is that those are the same consequences if I don't pay attention when I'm driving or, like, whatever else. There are plenty of other things you do in life where if you botch it, you're gonna die. And yet people take some of those things for granted. It's like, oh, that's just normal life. You're kind of like, well, you know, it's like you gotta be intentional around where you're taking your risks.
- [38:24]
Host
Yeah. Do you think that's a helpful mindset when you are doing things as well? To recognize it, to see it more as, I guess, grounded in real and normal in terms of when you're processing things? Is that a helpful mindset?
- [38:36]
Alex Honnold
What do you mean?
- [38:37]
Host
Like, even just the way you describe it, which I agree with, you're like, yeah, well, there's crazy risk in this as well. And. And you're right. Like in driving, for example, and. And texting and, you know, all that kind of stuff. Or drink driving or whatever.
- [38:49]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. Drinking and driving, to me is the thing. People are always like, oh, climbing seems dangerous. And you're like, well, the thing with climbing is at least you're choosing the risks that you're taking. And obviously, I'm training for them, I'm preparing for them. You know, I have. I've like, like, imagery of the building at home, so I can visualize the moves, you know, like, there's a lot that goes into it. Whereas people go out and party on a Friday night, and then they drive home, they're like, whatevs, you know, it's just a Friday. I'm partying. And you're like, well, those. You're taking a tremendous amount of risk, sort of unintentionally.
- [39:15]
Host
Yeah, same with texting and driving, too.
- [39:17]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. I mean, and those are the types of things where you're like, you know, it's like, if you're not Choosing to take those risks. I don't know. I mean, I think that's kind of worse.
- [39:25]
Host
Yeah. Talk to me about the visualization, because I'm such a big fan of visualization.
- [39:28]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, I read about it in your.
- [39:29]
Host
Book as a meditation technique. I. Talk to me about where you just said you have a picture of the building.
- [39:34]
Alex Honnold
Well, yeah. So, I mean, in rock climbing, like when I'm climbing hard routes, let's say, you always just imagine the route. You think about it, you remember the moves. Part of it is to physically remember what to do. Like left hand, right hand, like drop the left hip, you know, turn the knee, things like that. Like, the mechanics of it. And then part of the visualization is like, what will it feel like, particularly around free soloing? Things that you're not going to be able to practice necessarily. So some of the visualizing is just. Just, you know, like, how will it feel to put my foot on something that's really slippery when you know I'm going to die of it slips? And so you're just kind of imagining the sensations and all that. That kind of stuff.
- [40:07]
Host
So you can't. As part of free soloing, you can't go and climb this building at any point in order to practice?
- [40:12]
Alex Honnold
Well, no, I can go practice it with a rope.
- [40:13]
Host
Okay.
- [40:13]
Alex Honnold
But the thing is, you just don't know because when you have a rope on, you don't really mind if your foot's going to slip or something. But then when you take the rope away, you're kind of like, well, what is it going to feel different? Like, I don't know. And you can't totally practice that. So you kind of have to do that mentally. Just imagine it. And.
- [40:25]
Host
Yeah. So you get a sense while you're on the rope, almost as a dress rehearsal feeling. And then you're having to remember that feeling.
- [40:32]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. And sort of imagine the potential feelings. Because part of the benefit of visualization, I think, is that you're like, what if it's humid that day? What if it's particularly dry? And like, with the building, it's interesting because with glass and metal, you know, the texture is obviously really different than rock. And so I'm not sure if I want it to be humid or if I want it to be dry. Like, with rock, you normally want it to be super dry because if it's humid, it's too slippery on the rock. Rock. But with a building, because it's so slippery to begin with, I think you actually want some humidity so it doesn't feel as Slippery, like you want your skin to stick to it a little bit. And so you want like a little bit of dampness, but obviously you don't wetness. You don't want it to be wet because then it's really slippery. So anyway, just thinking about stuff like that, I mean, that's all part of visualization, I think. But what I was going to say is that with. With rock climbing, you know, you don't normally have footage of any of this type of stuff. So you just imagine that. You remember, you think about the climb with this building. You know, we already went and did a scout and they were practicing the camera positions. They flew a drone up and down the building to like, figure out the angles and all that kind of stu stuff. And so I never. I don't think I'd ever done this before, but I kind of reached out. The production team was kind of like, send me, you know, selects of the whole building so I can remember all the. All the different sequences better. And so they sent me just some visuals of the building, but then they also sent me some clips of me climbing different things. And I was like, oh, this is actually tremendously useful because I can see, you know, how I'm doing it and what I can do better. And just, you know, I was like, oh, this is great.
- [41:50]
Host
I love that you use visualization as a technique, though.
- [41:52]
Alex Honnold
Every climber does. It's a really big part of climbing.
- [41:54]
Host
And you're visualizing the process, the texture, the feeling, everything.
- [41:58]
Alex Honnold
Thing.
- [41:58]
Host
Yeah. Every detail that you could possibly imagine or know from.
- [42:02]
Alex Honnold
And sometimes you're imagining, you know, the experience, like, the consequences of it are like, what if you do fall? Like, I mean, like, particularly with. With free sawing all cab. Like with. I've spent so long kind of working on that. I mean, I thought about, like, what if I fell from here or fell from there just because. And even though those are terrible things to visualize, because it's you falling to your death in horrible ways because, you know, in a lot of places, falling off a mountain, it's not like a clean. It's not like I fell. And then you hit the ground. It's like you bounce, you know, hundreds of of feet or a thousand feet, and it's a disaster. And so. But it's important to think about that stuff ahead of time so that when you're up there, you don't suddenly, for the first time, you know, it's not like, oh, if I fell here, it would be horrible. It's like, no, you've already Thought about that. You visualize it, you processed it, and, and you've chosen to set that aside and execute the climb anyway.
- [42:46]
Host
Yeah. You've already sat with the discomfort of that feeling in a safe environment.
- [42:50]
Alex Honnold
Exactly.
- [42:51]
Host
So now you can track that and bring that with you to this.
- [42:53]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. Now you don't have to think about it while you're up there.
- [42:55]
Host
Yeah.
- [42:56]
Alex Honnold
I mean, ideally, you think through all that stuff ahead of time. And the building. I haven't gotten too deep into all that yet, just because I'm still kind of a ways out, and I'm sort of focused on the physical side, and it's just not quite as close to my personal edge. I, I think, I'm pretty sure, like, I just, I think it should be well within my comfort zone, I think. Yeah. Um, so there's just not as much time devoted to, like, what if I die? Uh, but, you know, we'll see.
- [43:18]
Host
No, no, I, I, But I love the visual. Do you. What's interesting to me because I'm thinking about all of us, and I, you know, I think the smallest things in the world would be easier if. So, for example, I've been public speaking for years, and I've always asked for a picture of the stage so that I can visualize myself walking out so that I don't trip over when I go out there, so that I. And I think about all those. And I'm giving a very human example of something that I hope my listeners can take away, going, okay, well, how do I use that? I'm like, yeah, I visualize myself giving presentations. I visualize myself, Myself doing difficult things for the first time. I visualize pretty much everything. I use it as a technique.
- [43:56]
Alex Honnold
You're a trained visualizer, though. Easy tool for you to pull out.
- [43:59]
Host
Of the box, for sure. But I would really encourage people to do it because hearing you talk about it, I'm like, yeah, you're visualizing all the details. And what I love that you haven't once said, and I want to ask you about this, is you didn't just say, oh, I visualize myself getting to the top and celebrating. It's like, no, I visualize.
- [44:14]
Alex Honnold
I don't care about that.
- [44:15]
Host
Yeah, yeah, I thought you didn't.
- [44:16]
Alex Honnold
That's.
- [44:17]
Host
Talk to me about that. Because I think that's what today when we talk about manifesting and visualizing, people have this. Visualize where you want to live, visualize success. Right.
- [44:25]
Alex Honnold
And it's like, who cares about that? Because, like, that'll just follow. Like, if that happens, great. If it doesn't. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, I haven't visualized that, actually. I mean, it's not totally true because the. The. The top of the building is this incredible little spire. It's like a small little. It's basically the space between us. It's just a little dome. And so you just stand on this. Yeah, you stand on this tiny little pin and. And it's incredible, and the view is insane. But, you know, I've already gone up there, like, climbed up through the hatch just to, like, check it out and rappel off the side and things. And so I know it's amazing, and I know that it's going to feel amazing to stand up there. So I haven't really visualized that because I'll just, you know, it's like, when it happens, it happens. But no, you visualize the stuff that's important. But actually, I mean, talking about this, I think in some ways, if you're talking to, like, the layperson audience, whatever, I think maybe it's worth. Worth not framing it as visualization because, you know, over the years as a climber, I've always just kind of thought of as daydreaming. You know, it's like. Because also as a climb, you spend so much time hiking to and from cliffs, and I spent a lot of time by myself walking around, you know, in the mountains. And you just spend a lot of time daydreaming, basically, like, thinking about climbing. And so, you know, occasionally, like a project like this, I'll intentionally visualize where I'm like, okay, I'm getting ready for a thing. But basically, anytime I go wandering in the mountains, I spend a tremendous amount of time just thinking about, you know, like, your mind's always wandering on something. It might as well be wandering through climbs that you're excited about or things that you're thinking about or projects that you have, like, things on the back burner that you didn't quite do that you want to go back to. So, you know, I mean, I think it's less daunting to think of it as like, oh, when you're out for a hike or, like, out for a walk with your dog, you just daydream about things that matter to you. Like, that is visualization.
- [45:58]
Host
Yes, yes.
- [45:59]
Alex Honnold
You know, yes. Like, you can make it more focused and you can. You can do it more intentionally, but at the core, it's just. It's just imagining stuff.
- [46:06]
Host
Yes, yes, I like that. And the truth is, all of us are imagining, but most of us are imagining. Worst case scenario, like, so we imagine the meeting and going, oh God, I'm gonna get fired today. Or you know, that that's how we imagine.
- [46:17]
Alex Honnold
I wonder about that because so I. I don't really have that so much.
- [46:20]
Host
I didn't think you did.
- [46:21]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. And I do kind of wonder if I'm just like, just a little less neurotic than average, like as a base hardwired. You know what I mean? Like, it's interesting because I've read it. You know, I just read your book. I've read a ton of like self help type stuff over the years and like all kinds of. And generally I read, I'm like, I'm already living my best life. Like, I love my life. I'm doing what I love to do. I like, I love that. And so, I mean, for whatever reason, I love reading books like that because I feel like if I get one little nugget that like helps me, it's like totally worth it and it. But at the same time I'm just kind of like, I don't know if this book was written for me. You know what I mean? Like, I don't feel like I'm struggling with a lot of the things. Things that, that it seems like some these types of books are written for.
- [47:00]
Host
Yes.
- [47:00]
Alex Honnold
Like, I'm not struggling with. With inner turmoil around a lot of this type of stuff. I'm kind of like, is that, you know, basically, is that nature or nurture? It's like, is that just the way it is or. Or is that a lifetime spent outside being scared and I don't know.
- [47:14]
Host
Yeah, I mean, I mean I. I've.
- [47:16]
Alex Honnold
Like, like how much natural anxiety do you have?
- [47:18]
Host
No, I feel similarly to you.
- [47:19]
Alex Honnold
Okay. Like you just never felt afflicted by.
- [47:21]
Host
Like that wasn't how I operate in general. Yeah. It was just not how I. And I think it's because I was exposed to so much of it when I was young. So I think it is the exposure of being overexposed to discomfort, anxiety, pain, stress. But I've seen that go both ways. So I've seen that lead to people becoming free of it or having less of it or being able to know how to manage it. I've also seen it go towards people crippling anxiety.
- [47:49]
Alex Honnold
Correct.
- [47:50]
Host
And then I've seen also people creating great success in order to protect themselves from it. It.
- [47:55]
Alex Honnold
Huh.
- [47:56]
Host
And so there's almost like it can go in three ways. And so it's not that simply being exposed to discomfort makes you stronger.
- [48:03]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, it depends on how it depends.
- [48:05]
Host
On how the person reacts to it. It's almost like there's this old story, which I love, which is like, when you put three different things in boiling water, the different things happen to them. So it's like you put. You put a potato in boiling water, it gets softer. You put a egg in boiling water, it gets harder, harder. You put coffee beans in boiling water, they let out the best scent. And so there's this old story that goes, which one are you. Are you a, you know, an egg, a potato, or are you a coffee bean? And so it's almost like the pressure of hot water. What does it do to you? And that's always been an interesting thing of, do we get to choose that or are we wired that way? What does that look like?
- [48:39]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, I think about this. I'm more. Now I have two little kids, and so, you know, like, questions of nature versus nurture. I just think about a lot more because you're kind of like, you know, are we having any impact on these children, like, or are they just fully baked as how you find it?
- [48:51]
Host
I'm intrigued as to.
- [48:51]
Alex Honnold
Well, they're so young, it's hard to tell, but you just see so much innate in them when you're like, you're just your own little person.
- [48:58]
Host
And.
- [48:58]
Alex Honnold
And, you know, there are probably things that we could do negatively to, like, negatively impact their development, but I don't know how much we're going to do positively, you know. You know what I mean? I'm kind of like, I think they're going to be fine, but in some ways, it takes away a lot of the stress of parenting where you're just kind of like, you know, I'm not trying to, like, shape them into anything. Like, I think they're going to be freaking great. We're just trying to make sure they're happy and safe and, you know, like, have their material needs met and things and let them blossom into whatever they're going to blossom into. But we'll see. Mean, I'm just starting, and I don't really know anything about parenting. We're just. We're just winging it.
- [49:28]
Host
Yeah. No, I. I remember a friend. Like, I. We're not parents yet, but I remember a friend, like, they raised their kid where, like, their kid would be, like, playing with fire and, like, jumping up and down and running around, and it's like. And I would. I didn't This. I was much younger then, and I didn't know their style, and so I would get scared when their kid was near a candle or something, it'd be like, no, let the kid be near a candle. Like they'll figure it out themselves.
- [49:50]
Alex Honnold
Well, that's. Yeah, we're very much like, yeah, well, yeah, all this talk about risk taking, all that. I mean, I definitely, I think with the kids, you know, obviously I don't want to see them get grievously injured, but I don't really mind seeing them get a little bit injured. You know, it's like seeing them fall down all the time, I'm like, that's fine. Cuz like, I mean as a climber you just fall down all the time and like you just get, you know, boo. Boost non stop. And so like with the kids you're just kind of like, yeah, that's fine to get hurt all the time, just. But we're there to prevent catastrophic injuries and like, and, and now we kind of see that already with the kids where you're like, oh, you know, they just seem a little bolder than, than some other kids their age maybe. But then you wonder, is that nature? Is that nurture? Is that because we allow them the latitude to explore like that? Or is that, you know, because it's my daughter and whatever, you know. Yeah, I don't know. It's like my wife and I are already sort of adventurous. People are like. And so our kids are too. I don't know. Yeah, you know, it's like, we'll see.
- [50:40]
Host
Yeah. Can you, can you be a climber and be a perfectionist?
- [50:44]
Alex Honnold
I think, yeah, I think you can be. I mean, in some ways I actually think, I think I'm a recovered perfectionist in some ways. Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that my mom is like a major perfectionist, like kind of like, like psycho. And so I think we were sort of raised that way. It's like that's the, that's the, the norm. But I mean, but the reality is like, I'm a very lazy person. Like, I just often do the bare minimum and things that I don't care about or like the minimum requirement to, you know, whatever. And so I don't know, like, how do you reconcile like perfectionist tendencies? Being incredibly lazy, sort of like, I don't know, it's tough. And so now I think, I don't know, I think I've hit a real sweet spot where it's like I work really hard on the things I care about and then everything else, I just don't stress.
- [51:28]
Host
Yeah.
- [51:29]
Alex Honnold
Yeah.
- [51:29]
Host
I mean, I think that's, that makes A lot of. I mean, that, to me, seems to be a trait of high level, really high performers and successful people in general, that they're able to know or focus.
- [51:40]
Alex Honnold
On the thing that matters.
- [51:41]
Host
Like the thing that you can do. Absolutely. And what not to waste time on and. And.
- [51:45]
Alex Honnold
But it's taking me a long time to get there, I think, you know, because I think through early life you're just so hung up on, like, appearances and what you should be doing, what you think you ought to be, you know, whatever, and then eventually you're just kind of like, you know, I'm only good at a couple things. I just focus on the thing I'm good at and just do it. Yeah. Just. And just be happy doing it. It.
- [52:02]
Host
Yeah. Talk to me. I wanted to go back. You were saying that right now you're working out. Diet sleep. Like, walk me through what that routine looks like. I love. I love learning about people who live incredible lives and their different systems that they have in place to be able to pull off great feats.
- [52:17]
Alex Honnold
I mean, yeah, it's all normal stuff, like eat well, exercise.
- [52:21]
Host
I'm intrigued.
- [52:22]
Alex Honnold
Yeah.
- [52:22]
Host
So.
- [52:22]
Alex Honnold
So I'm eating a vegetarian, basically. You know, mostly whole foods. I don't know. Like, dinner last night was like, like, tofu roasted broccoli and cauliflower and some, like, some purple sweet potato thing. I think that was it. Oh, and some Brussels sprouts. But it's basically just a bowl of, like, vegetables. And. And it's. It's interesting because even, like a couple months ago, I would have thought of that as a sort of inadequate dinner, you know, but, like, the last several weeks, I've basically just been eating, like, whole foods and no sugar and like, wholesome meals, and I'm kind of like, you know, I've just kind of, like, adapted to it. Like, this feels good and I feel great. Right. And, yeah, I'm sleeping well.
- [52:57]
Host
And how much do you try and sleep and when do you sleep well, basically?
- [53:01]
Alex Honnold
I mean, the babies have been waking up actually, are. We have like a. They'll. There'll be two and four in February. So right now it's like one and three quarters or whatever. But for whatever reason, she's waking up in the middle of the night a bunch right now, which is like a new. I think it's like a developmental phase. You know, it's like she suddenly made a leap, but she's saying way more. But you're like, gotta go back to sleep. You're like, oh, man. But so. So we basically sleep from like 10 to 6 every day. Like roughly 8 hours every day. But then sometimes a little more or less. But then you, you know, the other night I got up at 3 and then just like made a bottle for my baby and like, and did a whole nother bedtime for. At three in the morning, like basically like read her story and put her back to bed. It was kind of like, huh, what an unusual night.
- [53:42]
Host
Yeah.
- [53:43]
Alex Honnold
So, you know, you can't take it too seriously. It's not like, sure. But you know, it's, it's enough though. I mean, we're sleeping well and vegetarian.
- [53:50]
Host
Over a meat diet because I've always.
- [53:53]
Alex Honnold
Cared more about the environmental impact, like just the, the, the impact on the earth. But I also feel like it's a little cleaner and I'm not like super uptight about it. Like I'll eat fish and, and generally I'll eat meat if it's gonna be wasted. You know, if like somebody has a serving, I'm like, oh, what's better than throwing it away? Um, but I just don't buy meat and I don't really do dairy. Um, I think I'm.
- [54:14]
Host
Do you find that affects your performance too?
- [54:15]
Alex Honnold
I, I think I'm kind of lactose intolerant a little bit. And so I'm kind of like. It's probably not like the best, but. Yeah, it's just. But again, it's also better for the earth. I'm kind of like, ah, it seems better.
- [54:25]
Host
Right. Interesting.
- [54:26]
Alex Honnold
The main thing for me is not eating desserts, like not eating extra sugar. It just keeps everything. Sweet tooth. Yeah.
- [54:31]
Host
So then that's odd then.
- [54:33]
Alex Honnold
Well, I actually. So interesting. I'm, I'm maybe like two weeks into eating really well right now and. And you just lose the cravings. Yeah.
- [54:39]
Host
You feel so much better once you get past that. I go through periods of being completely off.
- [54:44]
Alex Honnold
Off.
- [54:44]
Host
And then I have like, you know, during Christmas time, I'll probably. Yeah, exactly, dabble a little bit again. But when I'm off, I, I feel like my taste buds change.
- [54:52]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, you just feel so much better.
- [54:53]
Host
Yeah, I know.
- [54:54]
Alex Honnold
It's all the things you read about in books that you're just like, nah, that's stupid. And then you actually experience it. You're like, well, it does seem like it's true.
- [55:01]
Host
Imagine it's the 22nd of January. What do you do? What's your ritual the night before? Is it different? Do you have a ritual that's.
- [55:09]
Alex Honnold
No, but the night before, a big climb. I mean, the day before. Be a Rest day. I might do some cardio or something. Go for, like, a light run or go there. There are a bunch of really cool mountains, like, in the city, so you can go run around them. They're like monkeys in the jungle and stuff. It's really cool. So you can, like, run around in the mountains a little bit. Um, so I'll probably do some cardio or something, but basically no strenuous exercise. And then, yeah, I'll just go to bed early and, you know, just try to eat well and go to sleep. Basically. You just want it to be normal.
- [55:33]
Host
Yeah.
- [55:33]
Alex Honnold
Like, this is a normal day. It's chill. And then you wake up the next day and you do the thing.
- [55:36]
Host
Yeah, it's When. When I'm hearing you speak about it, which is really refreshing, is that it's such a. But it feels like such a natural part of your life.
- [55:46]
Alex Honnold
Well, I think that's how you want to make it.
- [55:48]
Host
Yeah. Like.
- [55:48]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, because then it doesn't feel extreme, you know, it doesn't. Like, it doesn't require some crazy thing that you do. You're like, this is. This is what you do. This is normal.
- [55:56]
Host
Yes. And I can. I can liken it to. And I'm only translating it because. Always thinking about our listeners, but I can translate it to. In the past, if I was sitting down with someone that I was a huge fan of. Of. And I built that up, it would actually make me a bad interviewer.
- [56:13]
Alex Honnold
Totally. Because you're all.
- [56:14]
Host
Because you're all like, oh, my God. Yeah. And I would do that when I first started the show. And then over time, people saw me relax in and ease in. And sometimes I said to people, I was like, it's not that I wasn't super excited. It was just. I had to contain it to do my job.
- [56:26]
Alex Honnold
Keep it chill. Keep it chill. I got this.
- [56:29]
Host
Yeah, exactly.
- [56:30]
Alex Honnold
No, so. Exactly what you're saying. So with. With free selling, I'll cap. Like, I knew it would be the biggest thing I'd ever do. Like, I knew. I mean, I didn't think the film would be as successful as it was, but. But I knew that it would be far beyond anything I'd ever done because it's, you know, it's a feature documentary and whatever, and. And I knew the climb would be insane, but at the same time, you know, the main challenge of free soloing is psychological. Like, I had climbed El Cap with ropes, you know, many years before. I'd climbed it without falling off many years before. Like, technically, I was physically able to do it many years before for. But the psychological challenge, the believing you can do it, you know, when your life is on the line, that, like, that's a. That's a bigger challenge. And so I didn't want to build it up even bigger in my mind, because you're like, the challenge is already psychological. I don't need to, like, pile on and make it even harder. And so a big part of my strategy with El Cap was to make it part of my normal year. And so, like, right after I free solid El Cap, I went on this expedition to Alaska, which is like a normal. As a professional climber, you go on trips to places, you try to climb new walls, whatever. And so it allowed me to look at my Yosemite season that year as kind of building up for Alaska. And actually in the Alaska trip was because I went on an expedition later in that year to Antarctica, and I was kind of like, oh, I haven't been on skis in a while. It'd be nice to, like, do some glacier travel and climb some big granite spires on snow because it'll be good for Antarctica. And so I was kind of like, oh, Yosemite season is building up for Alaska, which is building up for Antarctica. And so it took a lot of the pressure off having to achieve on El Cap or whatever, because I'm like, oh, either way, this is practice for these other things coming up. And, I mean, I knew that the other things don't freaking matter compared to freezing all Cap, but, you know, it's like, it's good to keep it. Keep it feeling chill. And so, I mean, I've. I've always been into sort of stacking my goals in that way and trying to make sure that you don't let them get too big. You know, it's like you keep it all. I don't know. Yeah. So the building's kind of the same way where I'm like. Like, obviously that's more important than some of the other things I'm working on right now, but I do have a bunch of other climbing projects that are sort of intermixed with the training. And so it keeps it all feeling mellow.
- [58:30]
Host
Yeah. When you. When you summit, like, El Cap or anything like that, where you. Where you reach the top, how do you find you process that feeling? Like, what does that feel like to you? Is it gratifying? Do you experience it?
- [58:44]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, no, I'm psyched. I'll be like, this is amazing. I mean, without Cap, it was such a long. And it was so on the Edge of what I thought was possible. And so it meant a lot, you know, meant a lot to me. I put so much into it and the pressure with the film crew and all the stuff, I mean, it was insane. So I definitely, I was like, this is, this is amazing. I mean, the building too. I'm sure I'll stand on the top and be like, this is awesome. I'll be so psyched. But then, you know, I'll take the elevator down and be like, okay. What a day. I was like, what a joy. I'm sure I'll be glowing like until I'm back home. But then as soon as I fly back to my own Las Vegas, I'll be back to normal climbing projects. Like things that. Because I wouldn't be at all surprised. Basically. There's several other things I'm trying to do at home as a sort of buildup and training for the, the building. And I wouldn't be surprised if I don't manage to do any or all of them. You know, we'll see which things I managed to do. And so as soon as I finish the building, I'll just be back to try to finish my training goals. Basically.
- [59:33]
Host
Yeah. Is it, is it right? You're talking about waking up and the baby being awake at night. Is this the first time you're doing a climb as a father and a husband?
- [59:40]
Alex Honnold
No, no, it's not. I mean I've done a handful of things that are, that are cutting edge with the kids. Actually I did kind of my hardest like Free Solo to date for the Spear. Like it'll be this cool, like insane. It's a bunch of the same crew from Free Solo. So it's like the same, same co directors and stuff. And so it was really fun to get everyone back together. And we, and I free soloed this wall in, in Jordan in the Middle east. It's like 1200 foot sandstone wall. And it was probably, I told my wife it's like probably top 10 hardest things I've ever sold. But she was like, top 10's like kind of hard because I've actually done way more than, than what's in the public like on, on film. Because just building up Del Cap, I did like like a ton of things that were, that are very hard. And so this thing for the sphere that was probably the first thing I've done with kids where I was like, this is actually kind of cutting edge and pretty hard. And before doing it I was kind of like, is this going to be different? You know, like, am I going to be up there thinking about my kids being like, oh, God, this is so scary now. But I got up there and I was like, this is awesome. I was so psyched. It's this amazing wall. It's a really classic route. It's. It's famous and it's. It's. It's really high quality. And so I was just up there being like, this is so amazing. And I felt great.
- [60:42]
Host
I was like, so wait, you can experience that in the sphere in Vegas?
- [60:45]
Alex Honnold
Guess in next, next fall? I think so. Like years.
- [60:49]
Host
That's awesome.
- [60:50]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, we'll. We'll see. I think it's hard to film for something like that, you know, it's hard to shoot on these crazy cameras.
- [60:56]
Host
This place is amazing.
- [60:56]
Alex Honnold
So we'll see what. How it turns out. But in theory, next, next fall, there'll be a thing like that. This might all need to get go. Like, I don't know. As someone who's smarter than me.
- [61:06]
Host
Yeah, Yeah, I just, I just, I just went to watch wizard of Oz there.
- [61:10]
Alex Honnold
Oh, is it cool?
- [61:10]
Host
But it was insane.
- [61:11]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, I've heard it's really cool.
- [61:12]
Host
Incredible. I was so blown away by it, and I can't imagine. Imagine, you know?
- [61:15]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, that's the thing is, I think seeing Soling like that would be like, insane.
- [61:18]
Host
It'd be amazing.
- [61:18]
Alex Honnold
Yeah.
- [61:19]
Host
It be a real experience.
- [61:28]
Alex Honnold
Here we go.
- [61:30]
Host
Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my.
- [61:32]
Alex Honnold
New podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll.
- [61:34]
Host
Take today's trends and headlines and ask.
- [61:37]
Alex Honnold
Why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movie, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host.
- [61:50]
Host
Along the way, I've made some friends.
- [61:51]
Alex Honnold
Who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions, like, are we heading towards another financial crash? Like, in 08, is non monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands, like, two minutes or early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lilly Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Kal Penn on the iHeartRadio.
- [62:33]
Host
App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts for 25 years, I've explored what it means to heal, not just for myself, but alongside others. I'm Mike Della Rocha. This is Sacred Lessons, a space for reflection, growth and collective healing. What do you tell men that are hurting right now? Everything's gonna be okay on the other side, you know, just push through it.
- [62:59]
Alex Honnold
And you know, ironically, the root, other words, spirit, is breath. Wow.
- [63:04]
Host
Which is why one of the most.
- [63:06]
Alex Honnold
Revolutionary acts that we can do as people is just breathe.
- [63:10]
Host
Next to the wound is their gifts.
- [63:13]
Alex Honnold
You can't even find your gifts unless.
- [63:14]
Host
You go through the wound. That's the hard thing. You think, well, I'm gonna get my gifts. I don't wanna go through all that.
- [63:19]
Alex Honnold
You gotta go through the wounds you left listening to other people's near death experiences. And it's all they say. In conclusion, love is the answer.
- [63:26]
Host
Listen to Sacred Lessons as part of the My Kutura podcast network, available on.
- [63:31]
Alex Honnold
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [63:37]
Host
Hi, friends, Sophia Bush here, host of work in progress.
- [63:41]
Alex Honnold
This week we had such a special.
- [63:43]
Host
Guest on the podcast My Forever flotus.
- [63:47]
Alex Honnold
A mentor, a friend, a wife, a.
- [63:49]
Host
Mother, an author, attorney, advocate, television producer. And now she adds podcast host to the list herself.
- [63:58]
Alex Honnold
Friends, Michelle Obama is here. Sophia, I'm beyond thrilled to be able to sit down and chat with you. We talk about it all. Life, love, motherhood. Martinis, Vodka martini, dry, straight up olives, very cold. My girl, barely any vermouth. What's next?
- [64:17]
Host
What she's watching on tv. Buy him a white lotus.
- [64:21]
Alex Honnold
I am a Real Housewives person.
- [64:23]
Host
I love the dating shows and tennis.
- [64:26]
Alex Honnold
I just find that to be a bit meditative. You do not want to miss this.
- [64:31]
Host
Listen to work in Progress on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So it's interesting you said that, you know, you've done. To hear you say you've done crazier, harder climbs that have never been documented.
- [64:54]
Alex Honnold
Well, not harder than El Cap. Right. But leading up to El Cap. Well, actually, so let's see. I mean, I can remember. So leading up to El Cap, I had three other routes that were very. I mean, they're similar. They're not as hard and they're not as big, but they kind of led up to it. And one of them got filmed for YouTube, basically. And then the other two, never. Nobody ever even saw them. You know, like. Like one of my friends saw one of them with binoculars from the parking lot in this one area. But like, basically nobody saw any of the other stuff. Yeah, one of them. Not only did nobody see it, like nobody was even in the climbing region. I went in and I'd been planning on prepping it for several days, but then my van ran out of propane and it was like this insanely long windy road to go back to town. And I was kind of like, oh, I can't cook. And so I was like, screw it. So I just did the solo the next day so I could drive back out and just leave because I didn't want to, because I couldn't cook and I didn't want to take over whatever. So I was like, well, that's the ultimate like rushed solo. You know, you're kind of like, nobody saw it. Nobody. There was no plan. I just like got it done, done and left. But yes, I've done a lot of things like that over the years. Wow.
- [65:53]
Host
Wow. Do you, do you have conversations with your wife before you decide what you're going to climb and stuff? Or is this kind of like, this is what I'm doing and.
- [66:00]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, no, for the most part. I mean, when we first met, I mean, like, have you seen the free film, Free solo? It all sounds pretty, you know, like, like I don't care at all about her feelings and, and I think that's gives a slightly wrong impression just because at that point I've been dreaming about all cap she for, you know, eight years or something. And then I'd met. I actually met my now wife at the exact same time that we started filming for the, the documentary. So we filmed for sort of two years to make that documentary. And so that was the first two years of our relationship. And you know, I was like, oh, she's amazing and this is great. But you know, as some random person I met six months ago, like, it's not going to get in the way of a life dream, you know. But now it's totally different because now I'm like, oh, we've been together 10 years, we have kids, we have a life together. Like, you know, I live with like my in laws and then, you know, it's all, it's all much more tightly woven. And so her opinion matters a lot more for projects now.
- [66:48]
Host
Yeah. How did you know she was the right person?
- [66:51]
Alex Honnold
I don't know. She's just, she's so great. I mean, I think when I proposed there was. I said something along the lines of, you know, like, this is great. Can we just keep doing this forever? You know, like, like why not? Yeah, yeah. I've never been into the big like romantic gesture type thing because I kind of think the day to day life is like one of the things that I think is great. In our, in our lab, like, we have what we call sleepovers at night. Like, basically at night we always chit chat for a really long time, which is detrimental to our sleep. But it's like. But whenever we go to bed, we always have like, you know, we chit chat for a while and I'm like, oh, it's so nice. You know, it's like you want to have a buddy that you chit chat with your whole life. Like, I don't know. I'm gonna do that forever.
- [67:27]
Host
I love that, man. Does she find obviously what you do inspire? Like what. How does. What's her take on it? Like, if she was here right now and I was like, describe what Alex does, like how it feels for her, what would she say?
- [67:37]
Alex Honnold
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you know, she must be at least slightly impressed by it. I mean, she didn't meet me at a book event, but at the same time. Yeah. Well, actually though, she didn't really climb at the time. Her friend was into it and so her friend basically dragged her along, like, come to this event. And she had just gotten disillusioned with dating apps and she was like the next person I see that I think is cool, I'm gonna give my number. And so afterward I was like signing books and she just gave me her number and I was like, cool. And so, so I texted her and then. And now we're married. You know, long. Long story short.
- [68:04]
Host
That's awesome.
- [68:05]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, yeah, it was cool. But yeah, so obviously she must care a little bit, but I don't think she cares that much.
- [68:10]
Host
Is she a climber too?
- [68:12]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, yeah. Now she's. She basically kind of started climbing at roughly the same time that we. She had just started when we met. And so now it's been 10 years and you know, now she's quite a good climber.
- [68:20]
Host
Wow, that's awesome. That's amazing. Will you ever do a climb together?
- [68:23]
Alex Honnold
Well, we climb together all the time. Not like extreme climbing. Um, but yeah, we try to climb together as much as possible. Now with the two kids, it's a little harder for us to go go out together. But then now, I mean, sometimes we go on sort of climbing trips as a family and then the kids just run around the forest and play and we boulder. You know, it's like we're going to Do a family bouldering trip in France in the springtime. It's like a really famous bouldering destination, but it's amazing for the kids because it's basically a sandy forest with, you know, nice soft trees and sand everywhere. So the kids just roam and play. It's, like, really cool.
- [68:53]
Host
Is there a part of the world that you're fascinated by that you haven't visited yet?
- [68:56]
Alex Honnold
Actually, Southeast Asia. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm fascinated, but I've never been. I've always wanted to. And there's tons of climbing, but it's also kind of hot and humid. And so I'm sure I'll go at some point. But honestly, I traveled quite a lot before. Before I had my wife and kids. You know, I was kind of abroad, like maybe three months a year or something for climbing trips. And so a lot of that now I'm kind of waiting until the kids are a little older because I'm like, if I'm going to travel, I want to take the kids, and I want them to be old enough to remember it and have a real life experience. So I think in general, our traveling is all a little bit on hold until kids are older. And then I'm, like, really excited to show them some of these places.
- [69:32]
Host
Do you believe your work has a message or a mission beyond personal joy and fulfillment and thriving in play? Or. Or is it truly that? Is it.
- [69:44]
Alex Honnold
I mean, not that big of a mission. I mean, so part of the reason that I started the Honda Foundation a long time ago. I mean, I started this foundation that supports community solar projects around the world, was that, you know, I had a lot of work opportunities that I didn't necessarily need to take because I didn't need the money because I was living by myself in a van. I was kind of like, you know, I don't need to make this. I mean, this. A lot of this or one specific experience where I shot this commercial for a bank and, you know, and. And they wound up airing the commercial a ton. And this wasn't even, like. It wasn't even for me as like a famous climber, anything. It was like sag rates or whatever, like, screen action skills. I just signed the normal contract, but they wound up using the ad a ton. It aired all over the world. And so I made, you know, like six figures or something off of like a day and a half of shooting. And I was like, well, there's no justice in that, you know, and the thing is, is that it was work that I would have Done for free. Because it's like you're going out with your friends and you're climbing in some spire, and they're shooting with a helicop. Super. You know, it's crazy. It's like, super fun work. You're like, this is a total life experience that you would do as a rest day anyway. You know what I mean? Because, like, when you're shooting commercial like that, it's not like you're training. It's not like it's hard. And so you're doing it as a rest day, and you're like, well, either I would have sat in my van and read all day, or I can go, like, climb the spire with my friend with a helicopter. And it's insane. So you're like, obviously you want to do things like that, but I was kind of like, I don't need the money from it. I don't, like, need to do this type of work. And so part of starting my foundation was kind of like, well, it's a nice way to funnel all that, you know, sort of funnel the notoriety, the. The, you know, the money. Like, all that stuff can just go into something that seems slightly more useful.
- [71:12]
Host
Yeah.
- [71:12]
Alex Honnold
Because I like saying yes to those types of opportunities. But it's like. But it feels kind of, you know, not like I'm saving up for a yacht, you know, Like, I don't. I don't need that. And so it's nice to have, like, a reason to funnel it all into something.
- [71:24]
Host
Yeah, that's. That's awesome. And then I know you just launched your podcast, Planet Visionaries, as well, right? With.
- [71:31]
Alex Honnold
Yeah.
- [71:31]
Host
And Perpetual Planet Initiative.
- [71:33]
Alex Honnold
Yep. Yeah. Actually, we didn't just, like, we launched the new season. I've done, I think, three or four seasons with them now, but. Yeah, that's, like, one of my favorite. You know, we're. I mean, you know, like, interviewing people that are interesting and. Yeah. So with Planet Visionaries, I'm interviewing, you know, conservation is, like, marine biologists, like, basically people who are doing something useful in the world. And every time I have one of the conversations, I'm just like, oh, you come out of it feeling, you know, inspired. Yeah. Like, recharged in a good way. It's, like, kind of nice.
- [72:01]
Host
Yeah. And so how are you picking. Are those people, you know, and are friendly with, or are they people that you're just fascinated by or heard?
- [72:06]
Alex Honnold
No, they're. They're often people working through the Rolex, Perpetual Plan initiative. Because Rolex actually funds a surprising amount of conservation work like that People don't really know that, but. But so a lot of them, you know, somebody like Sylvia Earl who's like, her deepness, she's. She's like the Jane Goodall of the ocean. She's been a Rolex testimony since like 1950 or something. I don't know. She's like. I think she's 90. She's still like, scuba diving and know, creating marine protected areas around the world, trying to, like, help protect the ocean. And so interviewing people like her, you know, they're just like part of this whole, whole world. And then occasionally I interview folks like, I've interviewed a few, like grantee partners from the Honda foundation, like some of the organizations that we've supported doing community solar around the world. I've interviewed through them just to highlight the type of projects that they're doing and why. Why those types of projects matter. Um, I mean, we're kind of always looking for good guests if, you know, you know somebody.
- [72:59]
Host
Absolutely. Yeah. I was actually, because I became friendly with Mun recently from Rolex, and she was telling me about the show and everything that they were trying to do with it. And so I Actually there's. There's a guest I always. His name escapes me, but I met him recently and he was fascinating. So I left. I left. Yeah, I thought of him to Munya, too, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna see Alex. I'll just tell you what I. Yeah.
- [73:19]
Alex Honnold
We were doing, you know, the first season or two is like Rolex ambassadors and things like that. And then you're kind of like, well, there are only so many. And it's like. And so you started, like, broadening it out a little bit. We're kind of like, really? Anybody who's doing inspiring work, protecting the planet. Yes. Is worth. Worth. I mean, in many of the. The guests that I talk to is like, it's interesting because they're doing conservation in a slightly different way or, you know, a slightly different approach. I don't know. I like to think of the interviews as like kind of mini, little TED Talks or something, where it's like, what's the little nugget that you're trying to give to the audience? Like, how, like, in what way can they see the world differently as a result of having listened to this? So I don't know. It's. It's. It's pretty fun. Fun interviews, I mean, as you know.
- [73:57]
Host
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I'd to, like, love to. I'd love to. I wanted to ask you, Alex. I wanted to Share one more thing. But I'm going to wait for it to come through, actually, because I believe we have this. So I'm just waiting for it, if now's a good time. Okay. Thank you so much, Paige.
- [74:15]
Alex Honnold
Thank you. Wow, this is so pro. I need a teleprompter. I'm like, where's my.
- [74:21]
Host
So we had to do it for moments like this. So, Alex, we. You know, we were so excited about what you're doing, and, you know, as I said, I'm such a fan from before that it's. It's really a joy to learn. It's. I find it so refreshing when I sit with someone who kind of bursts every myth that you have about the thing. Right. Like, I think we all have certain. It's like what you said. The convers, the questions you usually get asked, or the kind of hype that's built up around this is how this person breaks through fear and what they do. And then when I sit with you, I. I'm like, oh, I love how the way you approach it is flow, is play, is real, is life, is joy, is. You know, and. And that's not what I would know or anticipate if I didn't sit with you deeply and have a really casual conversation with you.
- [75:08]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. You think it's extreme.
- [75:09]
Host
Yeah. And I love that it isn't. Like, you know, it's beautiful when you're. When your bubble gets burst and the myth breaks because you get to understand a human on a deeper level. And so we'd reached out to your mentor, Tommy, who'd sent a letter for you.
- [75:23]
Alex Honnold
Tommy sent a letter?
- [75:25]
Host
Yes.
- [75:25]
Alex Honnold
Oh, my goodness. Okay.
- [75:28]
Host
Would you like to read it, or would you like me to read it out loud? What would you prefer?
- [75:31]
Alex Honnold
What's better for you? You should read it.
- [75:32]
Host
It's for you. So I'll read it to you. Yeah, so he says. And all we asked him was for a letter for you because you were coming on the show.
- [75:38]
Alex Honnold
Oh, I'm already horrid. Do I need to leave? I need to leave. I'm, like, deeply uncomfortable.
- [75:44]
Host
All right, so this is what Tommy said. He's a. Dear Alex, when this podcast asked me to write you a heartfelt letter, I had to laugh. Few things make one of the most mentally strong men in the world squirm more than public affection, especially from someone close. But I'm doing it anyway because people should know the man behind the fearless facade. When I climb with you, mountains shrink to half their size. At first, I thought it was your systems and Efficiency. But over the years, I've realized it's something deeper. Deeper. Your unwavering belief in a positive outcome. More than free soloing, that is your superpower. When you believe things will work out, they almost always do. You've helped me see that so much of what feels heavy or scary in life is mostly imagination. Whenever I come to you with relationship worries or questions about how my kids are growing up, you reframe things until they suddenly feel manageable. And every time, you've been right. Right. You bring humor and lightness to places no one else could. Helping the people around you believe they can not only survive, but thrive. Your bluntness, your unfiltered honesty might feel harsh coming from someone else, but from you. It builds trust. Everyone close to you understands. It comes from a genuine desire to see people reach their potential. I also wish the world understood your generosity. You create abundance in everything you do do, and then give it away to friends, to family, to everyone around you. We come from a culture that values obscurity, one that assumes fame dilutes intention. Maybe that's why calling you an entertainer feels strange. But you've shown that you can go big without losing who you are. And if the world is going to be entertained by anyone, I'm glad it's you. Knowing you and calling you a friend has been one of the greatest luck events of my life. I love you, man.
- [77:33]
Alex Honnold
Tommy, that's. That's really nice. I was kind of like, did he write this? And then as he got into. I was like, oh, no, he wrote this.
- [77:42]
Host
Oh, no, no, you never do that.
- [77:44]
Alex Honnold
I'm like, no, that's incredible. I'm like, that's the nicest thing. That's so nice.
- [77:48]
Host
It nearly brought tears to my eyes.
- [77:49]
Alex Honnold
Reading.
- [77:49]
Host
It's the first time I read it. I've not seen it before now either, because it's.
- [77:54]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, I'm. I am shocked. And, you know, I'm like, what a nice man. I wonder when he wrote this. He. He actually stopped by our house just the other day. They were driving from for family Thanksgiving, and so they just stopped for a night just to camp along the way. I'm like, oh, so how did you guys meet? Climbing. I mean. Well, he was one of my childhood heroes. Like, he's one of the most famous climbers in the. In the world. And even when I was a kid, you know, he was one of the best climbers ever. So I always looked up to him and was like, oh, one day, you know, I want to be like him. And then at Some point we just met on the road, you know, both like two climbers and I think we were maybe in Squamish's spot in British Columbia. But then. But then I sort of sought him out for a couple climbing objectives and then once we started climbing he together, it was like, game on. But.
- [78:35]
Host
Yeah, Well, I loved what he said about you having the ability to reframe things. And would you say that's your superpower?
- [78:44]
Alex Honnold
Well, I mean, I think that's just normal. I don't know. Yeah, I was like, why build it up as bigger than needs to be? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny what he said. He does jokingly call me an entertainer because I've done TV shows and things now. So he's always like, oh, you're an entertainer? And I'm like, no, because, you know, I like to at least think of myself as like more of a high performance athlete or whatever. I used to jokingly call myself a high performance clothing model because when you're a professional climber, it basically means you're sponsored by apparel companies. And so I was like, oh, I'm a clothing model, but I send, like, I go hard. And now Tommy's like, oh, you're an entertainer. You're just like a TV personality. But I'm like, no, but sending. You know, but the thing is, I don't mind being a TV person as long as you can actually do the thing you're trying to do, which is like climb hard, climb well, like do things that you're proud of.
- [79:25]
Host
Yeah, absolutely.
- [79:26]
Alex Honnold
But, oh, Tommy, what a. What a sweet man.
- [79:29]
Host
What else stuck out to you? What else is. What else is like, what resonated with you?
- [79:35]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, I don't know. It's just all.
- [79:38]
Host
That's a beautiful letter. It's very heartfelt for a man who knew you were going to run out of the room when you heard.
- [79:44]
Alex Honnold
I know. That's actually the funny thing. Yeah. That. Yeah. Nothing makes me squirm like public affection, especially if somebody close. That's so true. Yeah. No, I'm so. I'm so impressed that he wrote that is.
- [79:55]
Host
Love it. Well, you can keep it.
- [79:57]
Alex Honnold
Oh, yeah, no, I. I should put this on my wall.
- [80:00]
Host
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, absolutely.
- [80:01]
Alex Honnold
Frame it like, what a nice holding.
- [80:04]
Host
To it as well.
- [80:05]
Alex Honnold
Do you do that for guests or is that just like a thing you do occasionally?
- [80:08]
Host
Very rare. We don't do it for everyone.
- [80:10]
Alex Honnold
For the right type of guest.
- [80:11]
Host
Yeah, for the right guest who we feel is at a exciting moment doing something new, doing something fresh, like interesting. But it. But it feels right.
- [80:18]
Alex Honnold
That's such a nice, though. That's such a nice idea. I.
- [80:20]
Host
It's one of my. It's one of my favorite things to do because I feel like, like you said, like, I think in our day to day, we love people, but we don't. We don't say it like that. And you don't get many chances in life to reflect. And so I know. I love reflecting on people, and I've appreciated when people have done it for me. And it's. Yeah, it's one of my favorite things to do. I have this activity I do with when I'm doing workshops in companies sometimes where I'll take a group of leaders who, despite achieving great things, their biggest worry is that they're bad parents. Parents, because they're so busy and we always have their kids write a note to them and it's stuck under their chair.
- [80:54]
Alex Honnold
Oh, that's like.
- [80:55]
Host
And it's really special because that seems like waterworks.
- [80:59]
Alex Honnold
Yeah.
- [80:59]
Host
And you also get to see what kids actually value versus what you think they value. So you're thinking like, oh, when I bought them that big gift, or when I took them on that fancy vacation, it's like that kid just remembered you've read a story to them before they went to bed last night. Like, that was the win. The win wasn't some, you know, grand gesture or some big event in their life. It was this tiny moment where you actually present. So.
- [81:22]
Alex Honnold
But.
- [81:22]
Host
But Alex. Oh, go on, you're gonna say something.
- [81:24]
Alex Honnold
Oh, I'm just like, oh, I'm so touched. It's funny. I mean, you know, I just read Think like a mug.
- [81:28]
Host
Yeah.
- [81:28]
Alex Honnold
And someone. One of my friends are just asking me, like, oh, what are your takeaways? Like, what do you feel like you gain from? And I was like, oh, there's a lot, you know, around, like, kindness, compassion, things like, you know, caring, service, like, all these types of, like, feeling. I was like, you know, I think I have a lot of room for improvement, all of those things. Like, you know, because there's a lot in the book that I'm kind of like, yeah, no, this is fine. I got that. And then, you know, but basically, the whole second half of the book, I'm kind of like, hmm. Like, that's. That's not quite my sweet spot. Like, yeah, like, there's. There's something to be learned there. Just like, oh, it's. Yeah, just give something to think about.
- [81:58]
Host
Yeah.
- [81:58]
Alex Honnold
Like, sweet Tommy.
- [81:59]
Host
What a nice sweet Tommy. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that Alex, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. And so, Alex Honnell, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard from or received?
- [82:16]
Alex Honnold
I'll just go for it. Just try. That's my advice.
- [82:19]
Host
It's worked for you.
- [82:20]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. Yeah. Better. I mean, this is more than one sentence, but. But yeah, I mean, it's better to try something and fail than to not try it. Yeah.
- [82:29]
Host
Does. Second question. Does failure even. Do you even ever think about failure?
- [82:36]
Alex Honnold
Well, if failure means death and. Yeah, you think about it a lot. No. I don't know. Can I give more than one sentence? Yeah, because it's interesting because in climbing, failure, like, basically, as a climber, you fail all the time, non stop. Like, as a climber, you basically try projects and you fail on them over and over and over until the one time you succeed. And then as soon as you succeed, you move on to the next thing. And so like yesterday I failed on a project that I've been working on on and off for like five or six years or something. I've been trying it forever. It's like my life grudge and, and I almost did it yesterday and hopefully I'll do it on Sunday, which is the next day I get to go back there. But basically I will have spent years, literally years failing on something. And then I'll do it once, which will represent about, you know, 13 minutes of high performance activity where I, like, try really hard. Might even be less than that. I'm not sure how long it takes to climb, but it's like in the minutes. And then after, you know, years of failure, I'll have six minutes of success and then I'll move on to the next thing. So as a climber, it's like you don't really define it, success and failure, because you literally, you spend all your time failing.
- [83:36]
Host
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Again, the exposure therapy.
- [83:39]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, it's like you're just always failing. But that's the whole point. The whole point is to go out and try things that are hard for you. So by that definition, you're not failing, you're just going climbing. Like climbing is failing.
- [83:48]
Host
Yeah. Question number three. What's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?
- [83:53]
Alex Honnold
Sort of say, I mean, maybe like the, the public acclaim to some extent. I think, you know, when you're alone in your van. Van. You're kind of like, I just want to like, be Known basically so you can get laid. You know, you're kind of like, oh, I just want to meet somebody, whatever. And then once you actually have some of that, you're like, I don't really need all that. But yeah.
- [84:10]
Host
How long did you spend in that van?
- [84:12]
Alex Honnold
I think I lived in the van 12 years.
- [84:14]
Host
12 years?
- [84:14]
Alex Honnold
Yeah. I mean, two different vans and. Yeah, I mean, I had some girlfriends on and off and various things and. Yeah, but basically lived in the van from 20 to 30? Yeah, maybe a little more than that.
- [84:24]
Host
Were you happy then?
- [84:25]
Alex Honnold
Oh, yeah, it's great. But I just knew that I wouldn't want to do that my whole life.
- [84:28]
Host
What was it that made you happy then but knew wasn't what you want?
- [84:31]
Alex Honnold
Oh, living in a van is amazing when all you're trying to do is climb at your. At your limit, but barring even the obvious, like, you'll lose motivation. You just don't care. You know, after 10 or 20 years of doing something non stop full tilt, you're like, you know, do I need to do another 20 years of that? And I knew that one day I'd want a family. And, you know, it's like my aspirations to die at 80 with grandkids around me, and it's hard to do that if you live alone in a van.
- [84:56]
Host
Is that. Is that really the dream?
- [84:57]
Alex Honnold
Yeah, yeah, I think so. That's the way some of my grandparents died. And I'm like, that's great. Way to go.
- [85:03]
Host
Would that make you feel content? Like, if you were looking back on your life at 80, what do you think would stand out to you?
- [85:09]
Alex Honnold
Well, I. My grandma, one of my last Grandma died at 95, I think. You know, surrounded by family, I'm kind of like, that's a good way to go. Like, I would be delighted to have that. Have that play out.
- [85:21]
Host
Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, it's my wife.
- [85:23]
Alex Honnold
I named my daughter after my beloved grandmother. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, and really, like, is there anything better? You know, it's like when you. When you're dying of old age, surrounded by family, and you had a good enough relationship with them that they're naming their children after you, like, great success and call it good?
- [85:39]
Host
Absolutely. Alex, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wish I did?
- [85:44]
Alex Honnold
No, I don't know, but I have all kinds of questions for you, but we can chat after.
- [85:47]
Host
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Alex, it's been such a joy getting to know you. I feel like I totally got. Got such an education in what it really means. To be fearless in a way that I didn't expect. And those are my favorite types of conversations where I'm pleasantly surprised, blown away, inspired, and excited to see what you do on the 23rd of Jan. And even though you won't care, I'll be rooting for you and cheering for you and watching. But thank you so much, and I hope we can stay in touch.
- [86:14]
Alex Honnold
All right. No, I appreciate that. That was a total pleasure.
- [86:16]
Host
Thanks, Alex. Appreciate it. That was awesome, man. Thank you so much.
- [86:19]
Alex Honnold
Great.
- [86:19]
Host
If you love this podcast, you'll love my episode with Lewis Hamilton. Lewis and I talk about why you should stop chasing society's definition of success and how to be more intentional with your goals. You don't want to miss it. Like, it's not about being perfect. It's about just every day, one step at a time, trying to be better, trying to do more. I'm learning a lot about myself. I have to break myself down in order to be able to be better.
- [86:44]
Alex Honnold
Her. What up, y'? All? It's your boy Kev on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who've had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak, and what did they learn from it?
- [87:05]
Host
I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo. Somebody had tomatoes.
- [87:12]
Alex Honnold
No, I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes, they would.
- [87:14]
Host
Have thrown the tomatoes.
- [87:15]
Alex Honnold
Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head, we made a mistake, the deal fell through, we're embarrassed. We failed. But this podcast is about that and how we made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like. We got into the small talk and they were just like, so what do you got? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no.
- [87:36]
Host
What?
- [87:37]
Alex Honnold
Check out not my best moment with me, Kev, on Stage on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. On this week's episode of the Next Chapter, I, Dee Dee Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer. I could feel inside myself at 4.
- [88:00]
Host
Or 5 years old looking through the screen on on the back porch, that this is not going to be my life.
- [88:06]
Alex Honnold
Listen to Next chapter on the iHeartRadio Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Episodes drop Weekly. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at ucla, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called the Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the question, questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week we're breaking down the world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. So check out the mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.