On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Divorce Lawyer James Sexton: #1 Conversation Every Couple Should Have Before It’s Too Late (Use THIS 3-Step Script TODAY!)

Guest: James Sexton, Divorce Lawyer and Author of How to Stay in Love
Date: November 24, 2025
Host: Jay Shetty

Episode Overview

In this deeply insightful episode, Jay Shetty sits down with renowned divorce attorney James Sexton to unpack the realities of modern relationships, what makes marriages fail, and—most importantly—the essential conversations every couple should have before it's too late. Drawing from decades of high-level experience in divorce court, Sexton offers practical wisdom, moving stories, and a blueprint for building resilient connections.

Main Themes and Purpose

• Exploring the high rates of divorce and the underlying causes
• Challenging societal assumptions about marriage and relationships
• Emphasizing the profound importance of preventative maintenance, vulnerability, and ongoing honest communication
• Highlighting the small daily gestures that build (or break) connection over time
• Offering actionable scripts and routines for couples to foster lasting intimacy
• Addressing prenups, co-parenting, gender roles, and navigating divorce compassionately

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Shocking Divorce Statistics and Their Root Causes

[02:03, James Sexton]

• Over 50% of marriages end in divorce.
• Many couples stay together despite being unhappy—fail rate of marriage may be closer to 70%.
• Despite this, 86% of divorced people remarry within five years, which “speaks to the importance of connection and how deeply we seek it” ([04:56]).

Memorable Quote:

"If over 50% of marriages end in divorce, how many people are unhappy but stay together for the children or because they don't want to give away half their belongings?... Now we're talking about something that has a fail rate of 70% or so. That, to me, is just shocking." – James Sexton [03:27]

Jay’s Take:

• If any other investment had a 50% chance of failing, we’d never try it ([05:37]).
• We confuse the wedding with the marriage. People spend more time planning weddings than marriages ([07:48]).

Why Do People Still Get Married?

[05:55, James Sexton]

• Societal assumptions push people into marriage without real questioning.
• "What is the problem to which marriage is a solution?" is a vital and rarely asked question.
• It’s considered indelicate—even rude—to ask “why marry?” yet imperative to examine ([05:55]).

Notable Exchange:

"It would be perfectly reasonable to say, really, why? Why are you doing that? ... But it would be considered terribly rude."
– James Sexton [06:26]

Sentimentality vs. Reality of Marriage

[09:10, James Sexton]

• Wedding celebrations are beautiful and emotional, but saying "I do" is only the beginning.
• "Being married is much more challenging... the being married part should be taken more seriously."

Personal Moment:

• James describes being moved to tears at his own son’s wedding: “To have this really intelligent young woman looking at my son and saying, ‘you're a hero to me’ was one of the most powerful emotional moments in my life.” ([10:24])

The Bravery of Love and Commitment

[13:04, James Sexton]

• Every marriage ends (death or divorce); to love at all is brave because “to love anything is to open yourself up to the inevitability of losing it.”
• It’s only brave if you’re scared and do it anyway.
• Long-term relationships are a continual process of rediscovery ("the next nine years will be a whole new journey") ([14:54]).

The Real Marriage Killers

Root Causes (Not Surface-Level Issues)
[19:05, James Sexton]

• Disconnection: “The number one marriage killer is disconnection. We fall in love incredibly fast and fall out slowly—then all at once.”
• Not Feeling Seen: “We stop making our partner feel seen. We become blind to the things we see most often.”
• Underlying issues are typically masked by surface symptoms like infidelity or money problems.

Quote:

"The most dangerous lies we tell are the ones we tell ourselves—about what’s making us happy, what’s not, what’s important." – [20:39]

Small Gestures > Big Moments

[27:01, James Sexton]

• Little daily caring acts matter more than big gestures.
• Shared a client story: a husband always replacing favorite granola; when he stopped, it signaled the marriage was ending ([28:33]).
• Reciprocity, gratitude, and recognition for such small things are crucial.

Quote:

"What does it cost to just take a moment and say, you know, I'm so glad you chose me?... If that's the secret, why wouldn’t you do it?" – [32:49]

The Role of Past Conditioning in Relationships

[39:26, James Sexton]

• We learn relationship patterns from the families we grew up in—for better or worse.
• If abuse or addiction was normalized, we’re likely to repeat or accept similar patterns.

Quote:

"There’s no class in love… we learn on the job.” – [40:57]

Gender, Cheating, and Communication in Parenthood

[43:58, Jay & James]

• Men are most likely to cheat when their partner is pregnant or has a young child; this stems from feeling demoted to “second priority.”
• Such feelings are predictable and can be coped with if discussed openly—most couples never prepare for them.
• James demonstrates how to reframe resentments or unmet needs into positive, connecting scripts ([45:50], [48:14]).

Example Script (The 3-Step Conversation)

[55:28, James Sexton]

1. Share something your partner did that made you feel loved this week.
2. Share something that made you feel less loved or was missed.
3. Suggest one thing your partner could do to help you feel loved in the coming week.

"Loving another person is a job – a career, a vocation. You have to be brave enough to talk about these things."
– James Sexton [55:52]

Sex and Physical Connection as “Relationship Glue”

[60:05, James Sexton]

• Sex is the key differentiator between being roommates and partners.
• Frequency changes over time; communication is crucial.
• Cheating is usually a symptom of deeper disconnectedness, not the root cause ([63:44]).

Communication Pitfalls and Solutions

[79:09, James Sexton]

• In divorce storytelling, everyone casts themselves as the hero.
• True partnership is when both partners acknowledge strengths, flaws, and areas for growth.
• The failure to express underlying needs (vs. just expressing anger or frustration) is a major relationship flaw.

"How many people would save the time, money, and pain simply because we didn't explain our anger, we just expressed it?" – Jay Shetty [98:17]

On Prenups and Preparing for the Worst

[84:24, James Sexton]

• Everyone has a prenup: either it's a default written by your government, or one you write yourselves.
• Not having a prenup is deferring crucial decisions to future government rules you have no control over.
• The conversation around prenups, while tough, builds all the skills needed for honest marital negotiation.

"The most significant contract you will sign in your life—except dying—is your marriage contract.”
– James Sexton [87:37]

The Dark Side of Divorce

[127:38 & 130:41, James Sexton]

• People weaponize the legal system (e.g., fighting over a $48 toaster in a $40 million estate).
• Lawyers can be incentivized to stoke conflict; the best lawyers act against their own financial interests to help clients settle.
• Parenting after divorce: subtle forms of parental alienation or negative gatekeeping can harm kids more than the divorce itself ([122:13], [123:57]).
• “Be a grown up. Love your kid more than you hate your ex.”

When Is It Time to Get a Divorce?

[107:31, James Sexton]

• Know you’ve made real, good faith efforts.
• If there’s persistent disconnection and conflict with no path back—and one partner is wholly uncommitted—it may be time.
• Divorce can be right; sometimes “happily ever after” means separately, and that’s not a failure.

"Sometimes love—the feeling—is not enough to sustain this very particular kind of connection." [111:00]

Staying Together “For the Kids”

[114:23, James Sexton]

• Parental conflict, not divorce itself, does the most harm to children.
• Skills of being a good co-parent and a good spouse don’t always overlap.
• If the home is full of conflict, staying together can be more harmful than divorcing.

Gender Nuances in Divorce

Who Files for Divorce More?

• 70%+ of divorces are initiated by women.
• But it’s often because men “go out for milk and never return,” leaving women to formally act.
• Men and women experience divorce pain differently: men often face economic and custody hardship, while women face a tougher romantic landscape post-divorce ([141:49]).

"Divorce is hard on men and hard on women in just different ways." [146:10]

Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• "Every marriage ends. It ends in death or divorce. But it ends." – James Sexton [02:03], [13:04]
• "Saying I do isn't saying I can. At best, it's saying I'll try." – James Sexton [09:23]
• "Disconnection is the marriage killer. We stop seeing our partners; we stop making them feel seen." – James Sexton [20:39]
• "The most dangerous lies are the ones you tell yourself." – James Sexton [80:48]
• "Be a grown up. Love your kid more than you hate your ex." – James Sexton [123:57]
• Jay on daily acts: "When you didn’t wash the dishes, someone felt like you didn’t see them." [25:44]
• James reminding us: "The peace we’re all looking for may not be so far away. The questions we need to ask may not be so complicated." [147:13]

Concrete Takeaways and Practical Advice

• Weekly Relationship Check-In:

  • What made you feel loved this week?
  • Where did we miss the mark?
  • What can I do for you next week?

• Have the Hard Conversations Early & Repeatedly:

  • Discuss roles, expectations, finances, physical affection, parenting, and personal growth goals.

• If discussing a prenup:

  • Make it a conversation about mutual safety and care, not distrust.
  • “What do you need to feel safe?”

• For parents divorcing:

  • Keep adult issues away from kids.
  • Prioritize making your children feel safe and loved—don’t let them be instruments of adult conflict.

Final Five (Rapid-Fire Wisdom)

1. Best advice received: “The hard thing and the right thing are almost always the same.” [148:04]
2. Worst advice: “Happy wife, happy life” (amended to “happy spouse, happy house”). [148:51]
3. Most important question before marriage:
   • "What problem is marriage a solution for, for you and your partner? Are your goals aligned?" ([155:24])
4. Biggest shared self-deception:
   • “This will change everything / nothing will change”—both are untrue. ([157:01])
5. One law for humanity:
   • Mandate hospice volunteering for 6 months after turning 18 to face mortality and value relationships properly ([158:25]).

Tone and Style

• Warm, candid, and direct: Sexton brings clinical frankness but also deep compassion and a touch of humor.
• Jay's signature openness: Jay's personal anecdotes and humility frame the conversation as mutual exploration, never lecturing.

Essential Timestamps

• 02:03 – Divorce statistics and why marriage is seen as “reckless”
• 14:53 – Bravery in committing to love
• 19:05 – Root causes of divorce (disconnection, feeling unseen)
• 28:33 – The power of small gestures (“the granola story”)
• 45:50 – The “script” for expressing difficult emotions non-confrontationally
• 55:28 – The 3-step weekly check-in for couples
• 84:24 – Why everyone has a prenup (even if they didn’t write it)
• 107:31 – How to decide if it’s time to divorce
• 114:23 – Should you stay together for kids?
• 141:49 – Who suffers more in divorce: men or women?
• 148:04–160:43 – Final Five: Jay’s lightning round with James

In Summary

“Love is brave work. Marriage will humble you. The real work is daily, small, and honest—and courageously facing the conversations we fear.”

James Sexton's wisdom distills decades of tough love in the courtroom and tenderness for the human condition: marriages don’t fail because of cheating or money, but because of a slow, quiet disconnection. The antidote? Show up—daily, vulnerably, imperfectly—and have the hard conversations while you’re still in love, not when it’s already too late.

For more, listen to the full episode or check out James Sexton's book, How to Stay in Love. Follow both Jay and James on social media for further lessons on building love that lasts.