Summary6 min read

Podcast Summary: On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Episode: Jahnavi: How to Create Inner Calm When Life Feels Overwhelming (THIS Simple Daily Practice When Your Mind Won't Stop!)
Date: December 26, 2025
Host: Jay Shetty
Guest: Jahnavi Harrison

Overview

In this warm, insightful episode, Jay Shetty welcomes his longtime friend and renowned devotional musician Jahnavi Harrison. Together, they discuss the power of spiritual music, the journey of self-discovery, and practical approaches to cultivating inner calm amidst life’s inevitable overwhelm. Jahnavi opens up about her creative path, the unique formational influences of her upbringing, how music became her spiritual vehicle, and what it really means to live in service. The conversation offers an uplifting mix of personal anecdotes, deep reflections on spirituality, creativity, belonging, and actionable wisdom for listeners seeking more peace and authenticity in their everyday lives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of a Spiritual and Musical Journey (02:52–13:22)

Longstanding Friendship and Shared History
Jay introduces Jahnavi as a Grammy-nominated devotional artist and their 20-year friendship anchored in service and spiritual community.
“Our relationship has always been service based…wanting to give spiritual experiences to others.” (05:12, Jay Shetty)
Nature as Inspiration
Jahnavi shares an early memory: walking through fields of rapeseed flowers, reflecting her lifelong connection to nature and how it grounds her creativity (07:07–08:18).
Family’s Influence
She describes her parents as “truth seekers” who modeled courage, service, and genuine care for people (09:32): “To have parents that are so committed to a life of service and devotion and community… it’s a gold standard in my mind.” (10:49, Jahnavi Harrison)

2. Discovering Passion and Finding Her Creative Path (13:22–27:04)

Early Creative Play
Jahnavi shares stories of recording herself singing with abandon as a child, never imagining a formal career: “I was never like, I want to be a singer.” (12:49, Jahnavi)
Devotional vs. Popular Music
She distinguishes mantra music — focused on sacred repetition and intentional prayer: “It’s sound vibration intended to clarify, purify the heart and mind.” (13:36, Jahnavi)
Navigating Two Worlds: Spiritual School & Secular School
Jahnavi speaks candidly of her transition from a spiritual school environment to a conventional school, describing the struggle to integrate two cultural identities: “I felt like I’d been kicked out of the nest...” (21:15) “Learning how to integrate and just be yourself in all environments, that was a real journey.” (22:59)

3. Integrating Identity and Overcoming Struggles (23:59–37:53)

Struggled with confidence, illness from anxiety, and the need to disappear to fit in.
Only later, in adulthood and especially during university, did she begin to “take agency” and build confidence by shaping her own educational and creative experiences (26:48).

4. Turning Passion Into Mastery and Navigating Success (37:21–41:11)

Jahnavi’s path to mastery in music was organic — from private practice to joining a mantra music group, balancing practicality with faith in her calling: “It’s a real act of faith and courage to just keep going with it, year upon year.” (40:11)
She openly admits she doesn’t identify as a “master,” emphasizing continual learning.

5. The Spiritual Power of Sound and Practice of Kirtan (41:21–48:57)

Music as Divine Connection
Jahnavi reflects on accessing divinity through sound, recounting formative experiences of kirtan (devotional singing): “It’s an incredibly deep idea that you can access divinity through sound… anyone can experience it.” (41:21)
Transforming Self-Consciousness Through Group Singing
On leading retreats, she observes shy participants grow into comfort and release: “Letting go and letting their voice out… it’s incredibly freeing.” (44:18)
Global, Inclusive Appeal of Mantra Music
Devotional music transcends language and tradition, offering universal peace and comfort: “People tell me they find a sense of shelter and comfort. A lot listen during difficult times...” (46:22)

6. Misconceptions and the Ongoing Journey of Spirituality (51:43–60:45)

Jahnavi debunks the myth that spiritual people are perfect: “A misconception is that spiritual people don’t have doubts, don’t have material desires, don’t make mistakes... actually, we’re all human.” (51:49)
She honors the messiness and nonlinearity of real spiritual growth: “It’s three steps forward, one step back, two steps pause...” (53:54, Jay Shetty)
As her platform grew, she became more aware of being put on a pedestal, reaffirming the humanity and imperfection at the heart of spiritual practice (54:09).

7. Faith, Doubt, and Prayer as a Personal Anchor (64:00–71:04)

Jahnavi describes a “crisis of faith” — losing touch with her certainty, and rediscovering faith through spontaneous, personal prayer: “Faith almost seeped in like light through a pinhole... I found prayer, more spontaneously and personally.” (66:18)
The Importance of Prayer
Both Jay and Jahnavi advocate for simply speaking to God as both transformative and grounding: “I would love everyone to talk to God more... I think a lot of things would shift.” (84:28, Jahnavi)

8. Service as a Path to Calm and Meaning (73:00–77:39)

When lost, Jahnavi asks herself: “Am I actually connected with service in this moment?” (73:00)
She reflects on the Sanskrit prayer “das anu das” — servant of the servant — and how adopting an attitude of service is a practical, everyday spiritual act.

9. Final Five: Rapid-Fire Insights (79:01–86:02)

Best advice received: “Don’t be afraid. Have trust and courage. Keep walking forward in your purpose.” (79:08)
Worst advice: Anything focused on what others think (79:33–79:44)
Defining decision: Missing her flight to pursue music rather than a safe job (79:56)
On valuing opinions: It’s crucial to discern whose opinions actually serve your growth (80:45–83:41)
Law for the world: Talk to God more & live in service “I feel like a lot of things would shift if we talked to God more and served each other.” (84:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“To have parents committed to a life of service and devotion... that’s a gold standard in my mind.” (10:49, Jahnavi Harrison)
“Learning how to integrate and just be yourself in all environments, that was a real journey.” (22:59, Jahnavi Harrison)
“Letting go and letting their voice out… it’s incredibly freeing.” (44:18, Jahnavi Harrison)
“It’s a real act of faith and courage to just keep going with it, year upon year.” (40:11, Jahnavi Harrison)
“I would love everyone to talk to God more. I think a lot would shift.” (84:28, Jahnavi Harrison)
“Am I actually connected with service in this moment?” (73:00, Jahnavi Harrison)
“A misconception is that spiritual people don’t have doubts… but we’re all human.” (51:49, Jahnavi Harrison)

Episode Timeline (Key Timestamps)

02:24 Jahnavi’s thoughts on prayer and intention
05:12–11:44 Jay and Jahnavi reflect on friendship, early influences, and values from family
13:22–15:38 Early creativity and casual musical beginnings
17:16–27:04 Navigating identity & integrating two worlds
32:38 Wisdom from spiritual tradition during hard times
37:21–41:11 From passion to profession in music
41:21–44:18 Transcendent power of devotional sound and group singing
51:43–54:09 Misconceptions about spirituality & the journey of imperfection
64:00–66:18 Crisis of faith & rediscovering prayer
73:00 Service as compass during times of loss
79:01–86:02 Final Five questions — rapid insights and practical wisdom

Conclusion

This episode is a tapestry of vulnerability and gentle wisdom. Jahnavi Harrison, through her stories and music, models a path of service, creativity, and spiritual seeking that is refreshingly honest and deeply practical. Whether you’re searching for ways to calm your mind or simply want to connect more meaningfully to your own purpose, this conversation is full of subtle, accessible practices and reminders that every step, doubt, and small act of service carries the seed of transformation.

Recommended Jahnavi Albums for New Listeners:

Like a River to the Sea (for traditional mantra music)
Rise (collaboration with Willow, blend of mantra and lyrics)
Into the Forest (her Grammy-nominated album)

Connect:

Stream Jahnavi on Spotify
Follow her on Instagram
Check out Radi’s playlist for curated devotional tracks

[End of Summary]

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Transcript482 lines

[00:00]
Jay Shetty
This is a iheart podcast. Guaranteed human. Lately, I've been trying to be more intentional, even with small decisions like cooking at home instead of ordering out. It's simple, but it helps me save for things that truly matter. That's why I love the State Farm Personal Price Plan. It lets you bundle home and auto insurance to create an affordable price that fits your needs. It's one of those thoughtful choices that support the life you're trying to build. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
[00:52]
Janavi Harrison
Foreign.
[00:55]
Jay Shetty
This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I use my Chase Sapphire Reserve Card, I get eight times the points on all the purchases I make through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences. Experiences like music festivals and sporting events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets me into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit Approval to Terms apply.
[01:46]
Sophie Cunningham
This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snore loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.
[02:25]
Janavi Harrison
There's so many different ways that people pray. For some people it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized way of placing their body in a certain position or doing certain actions. I think all of those things are designed to bring us into a certain state of mind and of being that allows can allow you to express some of these deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard to access.
[02:52]
Jay Shetty
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier.
[02:57]
Radi Franklin
Healthier and more healed.
[02:59]
Jay Shetty
Today's guest is one of my dearest.
[03:01]
Radi Franklin
Friends of the last 20 years. But she's also one of the most talented musicians. She uses music not just to entertain, but to heal.
[03:10]
Jay Shetty
Janavi is a devoted devotional singer, writer.
[03:13]
Radi Franklin
And artist whose voice has become a refuge for people searching for peace and spiritual grounding.
[03:20]
Jay Shetty
Through her performances, recordings and global workshops, Janavi has devoted her life to helping.
[03:26]
Radi Franklin
People experience the power of mantra meditation and sacred sound. Her work invites us to pause, breathe and reconnect with our inner life.
[03:37]
Jay Shetty
And she's also been nominated for her very first Grammy. If you're part of the Academy, this is my personal request. Go and vote for her. I'm so excited to welcome to On.
[03:47]
Radi Franklin
Purpose, my dear friend, Janavi Harrison Janhavi.
[03:51]
Janavi Harrison
Thank you.
[03:52]
Jay Shetty
Wonderful to have you here.
[03:53]
Janavi Harrison
I just got a massive confidence boost.
[03:57]
Jay Shetty
You. I mean, I just want to let people know. So I've known you now for like 20 years and I met you through.
[04:03]
Radi Franklin
Our temple and spiritual community in London, which is where we first met. And we would have both been at college or something like that.
[04:11]
Jay Shetty
And I. I'm so fortunate and so.
[04:14]
Radi Franklin
Excited about this because sometimes I post these pictures of me on the. On social media, which are like, how it started, how it's going.
[04:22]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[04:22]
Jay Shetty
And all of those. How it started.
[04:25]
Radi Franklin
So many of them were with you.
[04:26]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[04:27]
Jay Shetty
So me and Janavi, for everyone who.
[04:28]
Radi Franklin
Doesn'T know, what we would do is.
[04:30]
Jay Shetty
We would do events together where I.
[04:32]
Radi Franklin
Would speak and Janavi would lead mantra meditation and we would like. That was like our duo tag team. Yeah, exactly. And we travel all over Eng.
[04:41]
Jay Shetty
Did events in London, we did events in Weymouth. We did events.
[04:44]
Janavi Harrison
Cambridge.
[04:45]
Radi Franklin
Cambridge. We did events in maybe Oxford. We did.
[04:49]
Jay Shetty
We would do events and we've done this for years together. And that's always what we did. It was always our due. And then since I moved to la, Janavi comes to my house every single.
[04:58]
Radi Franklin
Year and we do an event where.
[05:00]
Jay Shetty
Radhi will organize this beautiful gathering of.
[05:03]
Radi Franklin
All of our friends and Genavi will lead a meditation.
[05:06]
Jay Shetty
And people are always so moved and just. It's pretty amazing.
[05:09]
Radi Franklin
Like thinking about being friends for 20 years and seeing our.
[05:13]
Jay Shetty
Our relationship has always been service based.
[05:15]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[05:15]
Radi Franklin
Of wanting to give spiritual experiences to others.
[05:18]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[05:19]
Jay Shetty
But at the same time, you lived with us during the pandemic.
[05:22]
Radi Franklin
I did for a few months.
[05:23]
Janavi Harrison
I think that was really good. Yeah.
[05:26]
Jay Shetty
So I'm really excited because rarely do.
[05:28]
Radi Franklin
I get to sit with someone that I've known for 20 years on the show.
[05:30]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[05:31]
Jay Shetty
And. And I'm so excited you've been nominated for a Grammy. I mean, it's just such a.
[05:35]
Janavi Harrison
Like, thank you.
[05:36]
Radi Franklin
Monumental historical occasion for, you know, our whole tradition, and to really see that just how far you've taken spiritual mantra music to help people. And it's such a. How does it feel?
[05:50]
Janavi Harrison
I mean, it's a huge honor, and like you said, it feels like an honor. Not. You know, it's part of our training. And I think that the spiritual tradition that I've grown up in, that, you know, you get an honor and it might have your name attached to it, but you think about how many people have brought you to that moment, how many hands and hearts and minds have all collaborated to, you know, whether it's creating something or whatever it is, it's such a collective endeavor. So I feel honored personally, but I feel honored on behalf of everybody. And. Yeah, it's. It's incredible.
[06:29]
Radi Franklin
It's. It's amazing. I mean, you've. You know what, it's really interesting because obviously I've seen you grow and, you know, you tour the world, you do retreats. You know, you made an album with our dear friend Willow, who you came on the podcast with last time.
[06:43]
Jay Shetty
It's been amazing to watch, but I almost.
[06:45]
Radi Franklin
This is really exciting for me because even when you know someone, when I get to sit in the interview with them, I'm always thinking I'm actually going to get to know them in a way that I don't before.
[06:54]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[06:54]
Jay Shetty
So I want to go back to your childhood.
[06:56]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. And I want to ask you, what is a childhood memory that you have that you feel defines who you are today or embodies who you are today?
[07:07]
Janavi Harrison
Wow. Well, I know with these kind of things, you're supposed to say the very first thing that comes into your head, and I'm seeing myself in a field near my house. You know, I grew up outside of London, but it's not that far from the city. But it's an area that there's a lot of protected farmland and stuff. So there's a lot of fields and forest, and it really feels quite rural. And these fields were close to my house, so I used to love walking, cycling there and just being in nature. And. Yeah, they would rotate the crops and the things that were grown in the field, and certain years there would be these incredible yellow flowers, rapeseed flowers, or sometimes called mustard flowers, and you could just kind of walk amongst them and be completely engulfed by these yellow flowers. Yellow as far as I could. Could see. So I don't know why that came to my head, but, yeah, that's. I guess that's something that's defined who I am, connection to nature and just. Yeah. Finding a lot of inspiration in that.
[08:18]
Radi Franklin
Do you still spend a lot of time in nature?
[08:20]
Janavi Harrison
I try to, yeah. Yeah, I do.
[08:23]
Radi Franklin
In. Where is it where you are now.
[08:25]
Jay Shetty
Or when you go back home?
[08:26]
Radi Franklin
Because I know you don't live in London.
[08:27]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, yeah. I mean, for the last, you know, almost three years, we've been living in the Bay Area, so that's. That's famous around the world for the incredible nature. So now we've got the redwood trees and, you know, the incredible California coast. So, yeah, we try to be out in that environment as much as possible. But I love to, like, you know, I consider myself a bit of a tree nerd, so wherever I go in the world, I'm always trying to learn about what trees are around and. Yeah, it's just something that inspires me a lot.
[08:58]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. I mean, I obviously know your parents. Your dad actually was our wedding priest for me and Vadi.
[09:04]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[09:05]
Radi Franklin
And so he actually did our wedding ceremony. And I've known your parents for 20 years now as well, and they've always been just so wonderful. And, you know, they're so loved by our community, and everyone has such an affinity for them. Like, what. What do you think each of them gave you growing up that you carry with yourself today? Like what. What was a quality or a value or a belief or even mindset that you think has really stayed with you for all these years?
[09:32]
Janavi Harrison
They're both truth seekers. That's something that I think brought them together. I mean, they both joined the spiritual community for, I think, around a decade before they got married. So they came from their respective religious traditions that they were brought up with and even countries. You know, my mom's from Canada. And both of them went on a personal odyssey of a sort. You know, searching for truth and meaning, purpose in life. So I think that courage to depart from the script that's being given, which I know a lot of people had in the, you know, the 60s, 70s, a lot of young people felt emboldened to take some unconventional steps, but not only did they sort of try that on, but they've committed to that life and to deepening, I think, with every year and to have parents that are. Yeah, they're so committed to a life of service and devotion and community. I think both of them, in their own way. My mom's the one. I mean, actually, both of them Are very people people, you know, they know a lot of people, they remember people's names, but they really care about people as well. I think in our community, if they walk from point A to point B, you know, like a five minute walk, they'll be stopping constantly with every person and care about what's going on in their life at the moment. So I think that's something that's made a deep impression on me. It's hard to follow in their footsteps, you know, in my life. And I guess in the life of all of us who have grown up with the Internet and social media, we have the ability to be connected to so many more people than ever before. And it's difficult to bring that same quality of presence and attention and care to all of our interactions. But it's a kind of a gold standard that I have in my mind. Yeah, so much. It's hard to measure all the things you've received from your parents.
[11:45]
Radi Franklin
Did you always know that you wanted to create music? Did you always know that?
[11:51]
Janavi Harrison
I didn't know that I wanted to create music in a formal way, but I was always. I think I was always doing it without consciously realizing that was a thing. Like, I just. When I was home recently, my mom had some cassette tapes from that I used to record myself, you know, at what age? Like probably 7, 8, 9 years old. And I had one of those keyboards, Casio keyboard. And I would just put on a drum beat and I would just play. I didn't know how to play keyboard, but I had total lack of inhibition. I just record myself spontaneously and I would sing a bit, tell a story, make up the story as I went along. And they were just meant for my sister to hear like bedtime stories and stuff like that. But when I listened back, I was like, oh, I guess I was kind of making up songs and things like that. But yeah, it wasn't.
[12:47]
Radi Franklin
Were you any good now when you listen back?
[12:49]
Janavi Harrison
No, it was embarrassing. I was really embarrassing.
[12:52]
Jay Shetty
We need to hear them.
[12:53]
Radi Franklin
I need to hear these.
[12:54]
Janavi Harrison
I think I'm gonna digitize them just so I can listen back and be like, wow, I've come a long way. But I mean, I love to sing. You know, I grew up surrounded by music. My dad and mom both love singing. My dad was really well known for his voice. And yeah, we sung as a family together. So I think it was just always around me. But I'm, you know, quite introverted by nature, so I was never like, I want to be a singer.
[13:23]
Radi Franklin
Yeah, what do you. What do you Think, what's the difference for someone who doesn't know.
[13:26]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[13:27]
Radi Franklin
What's the difference between devotional mantra music?
[13:30]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[13:30]
Radi Franklin
And popular music or music in general? Like, how would you differentiate them?
[13:37]
Janavi Harrison
I think there's a few key differences. One is. One is the most obvious, which is. Which is the lyrics with. With mantra music specifically. A mantra is a sacred word or phrase often containing names that refer to the Supreme Being and it's repeated. So people's first reaction is like, often, why are you saying the same thing over and over again? But the idea is that it's a type of purifying. I always think of a washing machine. If you had clothes that were really dirty, you put them in the washing machine a few times or something like that. So it's sound vibration that is intended to clarify, purify the heart and mind. But I think the other key difference is the intention of the music. So the intention is often prayer, is to connect, like you were saying at the beginning, to that sacred space within. Whereas I think music can have all kinds of intentions. There can be the intention of the artist just to explore, express something, to just to connect with the listener or just to entertain. I don't mean just in a. You know, to minimize what that is. But, yeah, the quality of it is different. You can. You can encounter that. You can feel it.
[14:59]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. No, it's. I remember when I first got exposed to was addictive and intoxicating in a way that was something I hadn't experienced before. I remember my. My friends and I would love going out to parties and clubs and things like that. And then when I heard devotional music for the first time, I was. I was like, wait, why do I like this? Like, you know, but it felt familiar and it felt. It felt like it, I don't know, connected with a part of me that had been buried for some time or not, you know, not awakened. And. Yeah, it has a really special quality. And now, obviously, years later, it's. It's one of my favorite things to experience, especially when you're chanting.
[15:39]
Janavi Harrison
But did you feel that straight away? Do you remember if you did it take a while to appreciate it or immediately.
[15:46]
Radi Franklin
My. On one of the first retreats, I went on, like, I felt it immediately.
[15:50]
Janavi Harrison
It was.
[15:51]
Jay Shetty
There was a part of it that.
[15:52]
Radi Franklin
Was just fun because there's so much. You know, there's dancing, there's like. It's. Yeah, it's such a celebration.
[15:57]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. So it's not always just sitting.
[15:59]
Radi Franklin
Correct.
[15:59]
Janavi Harrison
Meditation.
[16:00]
Jay Shetty
Exactly.
[16:01]
Radi Franklin
It's so festive.
[16:02]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[16:02]
Radi Franklin
So I Think there's a part of that. But there were. There were certain people and. Yeah, I'll tell you later of who specifically. But, like. Yeah, they were just.
[16:12]
Jay Shetty
They were just specific.
[16:14]
Radi Franklin
There were definitely experiences I had very early on that made me very convinced that the practice made sense and beautiful and.
[16:20]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[16:21]
Radi Franklin
And special. But. But, yeah. How so?
[16:24]
Jay Shetty
If you were.
[16:25]
Radi Franklin
So you were always artistic, as in you always playing around.
[16:27]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[16:28]
Jay Shetty
Talk to me about the discovery.
[16:29]
Radi Franklin
Because so much of our community and our audience.
[16:31]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[16:32]
Radi Franklin
Is always in the pursuit of their passion. And obviously you're doing something you love.
[16:36]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[16:37]
Radi Franklin
You're doing something that's more niche. You're also doing extremely successfully. This is what you do. It's what you offer to the world. And I think often we live in a world today where we think, oh, well, if I'm not doing something that's really mainstream and if I'm not doing something that has millions of followers and has, then I can't do it, and then it can't be successful. It can't take care of me and my family. And I think there are people like yourself and others I know that have found something you love, that serves other people, makes them happy, is able to, you know, get nominated for a Grammy.
[17:06]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[17:08]
Radi Franklin
Talk to me about the discovery, the early discovery of this passion, or maybe it's not. Maybe it was always a passion, but the discovery of mastery of it.
[17:16]
Jay Shetty
What did you.
[17:17]
Radi Franklin
What did you study at college?
[17:19]
Jay Shetty
What did you think? You actually, let's go backwards. What did you think you were going.
[17:23]
Radi Franklin
To be when you were like 11 years old? Because I feel we all get asked that question.
[17:27]
Jay Shetty
What did you. What did you write? I'm intrigued. What did you write?
[17:29]
Janavi Harrison
I remember. So I went to school at the temple, in the temple community, till I was about 10 years old. And then I went to, you know, a bigger regular school.
[17:42]
Radi Franklin
And what was that transition like?
[17:44]
Janavi Harrison
That was hard. It was really hard.
[17:47]
Jay Shetty
Talk to me about the difference.
[17:47]
Radi Franklin
So I didn't go to a school like that. I only ever went to public schools and grammar schools in England and ever went to a spiritual school.
[17:53]
Jay Shetty
So talk to me about what that means.
[17:55]
Radi Franklin
And then the transition from.
[17:57]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. So the school at the temple. So the place where I went to school is called Bhaktivedanta Manor. And, you know, it's in many ways an idyllic environment. There's, you know, it's kind of 80 acres of beautiful country land. There's cows there. There's a beautiful lake. It was a very special environment to grow up in. The School was very small, so we had very individual attention from the teachers. There was a lot of singing, drama, art, you know, in addition to the usual things we studied. And also we would lead the chanting in the temple once a week as a whole school.
[18:43]
Radi Franklin
So we were doing school learning the national curriculum.
[18:46]
Janavi Harrison
Yes, we were doing the national curriculum, so we were doing all the regular subjects. But we would also have time where we would study texts like the Bhagavad Gita. We would learn verses and things even from four or five years old. So it's a very unique way to grow up. For me, it was all I knew. But we used to have, there would be schools that would visit the temple as part of their religious education. You know, I think some people might not know in the UK religious education is compulsory in school. So you go out to places of worship and see how, you know, how other people live. So we would have these kids looking through the window, like pressing their nose against the window looking at us, and we'd be like, we're not zoo animals. But they were curious. And we also didn't know what their school experience was like. But yeah, for me it was normal. And I didn't realize when I went out to a more kind of conventional school that most kids don't learn songs in ancient Sanskrit when they're young and talk about death and reincarnation from a young age and the soul and things like that. It kind of makes you a bit weird to other kids. And I also didn't have that much exposure to pop culture, so.
[20:06]
Jay Shetty
But you only realized that when you.
[20:08]
Janavi Harrison
Went to high school, into high school.
[20:10]
Radi Franklin
You didn't know that until then?
[20:12]
Janavi Harrison
I didn't know that, but it was a bit of a rude awakening in any way.
[20:15]
Jay Shetty
Tell me about it.
[20:15]
Janavi Harrison
Like, yeah, I mean, I was, I, I was confident in my world, but coming out of my world, I felt extremely vulnerable and shy. You know, sometimes people say, oh, when did you give yourself the name janavine? I'm like, no, I was given the same when I was born, you know, and I chose to keep that as my name when I went to regular school. So then anyone who has an unusual name knows the embarrassment of the teacher pausing when they get to your name and the kids all laugh or whatever those kind of things are. Even being vegetarian at that time was quite unusual. I think it's much more common now. I just wanted to disappear. I didn't want to be comment worthy in any way. And yeah, that was really hard because I was trying to erase, I was trying to Erase myself in a way so that no one would have anything to say or make fun of.
[21:15]
Radi Franklin
Because you were coming with a different name, a different culture, different name.
[21:19]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. Why do you have white skin, but you say you're Hindu. Your name is weird. Can we just call you something else? Why do you eat that? They're pretty innocuous questions in one sense, but everyone knows kids can be really mean as well. I didn't even grow up, you know, with, like. I didn't grow up around that many kids. So suddenly being in a class of 30 kids, it can be quite a sensory overload also, if you're sensitive. And it's just. I think it's about also having the confidence as a young person to speak about why. Why did you grow up in this way? What are the things that you believe in? You know, sometimes you don't kind of have that experience till you're a bit older. And. Yeah, I just didn't have the words to describe it, so I'd rather become silent. So that was really difficult. I felt like I'd been kicked out of the nest. You know, the baby bird kicked out of the nest, and I couldn't get back to the nest. Because you change through those difficult experiences. You're no longer. I remember I did wear a school uniform at the temple school, but it was a different kind of school uniform when I went to the other schools. And I remember my parents were saying, oh, why don't you come? You know, there's a worship service at the temple every morning. And they were saying, why don't we go before school? You can go in the temple. And I was like, well, I'll have to wear my uniform. And they were like, that's okay. You can just come in your uniform and come for, you know, 10 minutes, then we'll go to school. And I was like, I can't. And they said, why can't you? And I. I was trying to describe it, but I was trying to say that when I put that uniform on, I have to become someone else. It's almost like I felt like I would implode or something if I tried to be that person at the temple. It was just like two different masks I had to wear or characters, roles that I was playing. So learning how to integrate and just be yourself in all environments, that was a real journey.
[23:25]
Radi Franklin
Going back into the world of work was a culture shock.
[23:27]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[23:28]
Radi Franklin
And it was very, very different. It was almost easier to go into the monastery than it was to get out. Because getting out felt like, wait, A minute. I've been practicing all these things for three years.
[23:38]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[23:38]
Radi Franklin
Now I have to go to a wine and pizza tasting networking event and I don't drink and there's certain things I don't eat anymore and things like that and just having to adjust. And so it's, it's embarrassing. It's, it was, it's, it's, it's hard.
[23:54]
Jay Shetty
And I did that as an adult.
[23:56]
Radi Franklin
So to me it was hard, but.
[23:57]
Jay Shetty
It was so much easier. It was somewhat easier.
[23:59]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[23:59]
Radi Franklin
But to do that as a teenager is like, you know, is super hard. What did it, what actually helped to integrate? What. How did you integrate these two seemingly opposite lives that seem to contradict themselves? What did you do to integrate? What did that look like?
[24:17]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, I think in my school, the school, school years, like, you know, till 18 or so, I just really struggled. It kind of felt like a dark tunnel those years because not, not that every day was dark, but it just, I just didn't feel like I could find that confidence and that self assurance to feel. Yeah. Grounded in who I am. And I kind of went back and forth in and out of, you know, I'd go to a regular school for a year and then I would actually, I mean, several times I kind of made myself sick, actually, with anxiety. I started developing stomach issues and I get headaches every single day. I wouldn't eat at school. I wouldn't, you know, I'd just save my lunch and eat it on the bus on the way home. Just like all these behaviors that were not. I don't know why I was doing those things. So then I'd tell my parents, okay, I want to do homeschooling for a while and I do that. But then I could tell myself that it's not like I'm super academic, but I need to be stretched a bit. When you're in that comfort zone of home or you're just with friends or your parents telling you to do things, you don't always push yourself. So I would kind of yearn for that environment again and go back into it and then feel like, oh, I don't think I can do this. And I think things really changed when I started to feel like I could take agency for myself and start to have a bit more confidence in choosing the direction of my education, which I think maybe for many people comes around university and you're kind of starting to hone in on what you want to do. But I was going to say, you were saying when you were 11, what did you want to do with your life. And I remember sitting on the school bus and writing. I remember like three long lists on the page, and they were just all these different artistic things. And I would keep going back to the list, and every time I would learn something more about each of those creative careers, I might cross one off. And it was like florist and special effects makeup artist. And my dad would sometimes take me to, like. Like, do, you know, work shadowing with different people just. Just to try and see what it was, what it was all about. But, yeah, I had no idea where my journey would.
[26:49]
Radi Franklin
Did you ever narrow down to one or.
[26:50]
Janavi Harrison
No, No, I never. No.
[26:53]
Jay Shetty
That's so funny.
[26:53]
Janavi Harrison
I'm still working on that.
[26:56]
Radi Franklin
Was it hard to go from secondary school or high school to college, like, to university? Was that hard, that transition, or was university not that hard?
[27:04]
Janavi Harrison
That was easier. That was easier because by that time I think I'd. I developed some confidence. I did my A levels very unconventionally through evening classes, which I was with older people that I found easier to be around because, I don't know, I just think I'd also grown up around a lot of older people. And I found I did really well studying independently a lot. And so I think that gave me a lot of confidence, like, choosing how I was going to study. Then I finished the A levels in a year instead of two years. It's like a different way of approaching it. And then I started to feel like. Like, okay, you know, I just, yeah, felt different in myself. I mean, you grow up. So I think university, college, also, people are a lot more open minded. I found you start realizing that it can be cool to be different rather than just something to be made fun of.
[28:05]
Jay Shetty
Support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. If you're listening right now and feeling that pull to grow in your career or make a bigger impact, Walden is designed exactly for that. For over 50 years, they've helped working adults get the W with the knowledge, confidence, and real skills to create meaningful change. What makes Walden stand out is how flexible it is with Walden's tempo learning. You're in control. No set weekly deadlines, no rigid schedules, just a pace that actually fits. Your life. And everything you learn is practical. You're working through real world scenarios that prepare you to make a positive difference in your community and beyond. You're also guided by faculty who've lived the work themselves, scholars and practitioners with real experience. This is the kind of opportunity that reminds you it's never too late to go after what you want. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is it. Head to Waldenu. Edu and take that first step. Walden University set a course for change Certified to operate by Chev this episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given, and Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. Every time I travel, I find a part of myself I didn't know was missing. I remember being in this small town completely unplugged, and for the first time in a while, I felt, still, travel does that. It grounds you, expands you and connects you to something deeper. That's why I'm always looking for experiences that go beyond the typical. Chase Sapphire Reserve makes traveling a breeze, earning eight times points on all purchases through Chase Travel and granting access to Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. No matter my destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve@chase.com SapphireReserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval.
[30:24]
Commercial Announcer
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[30:58]
Jay Shetty
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[31:16]
Radi Franklin
Choose what they need Most.
[31:18]
Jay Shetty
Donate@givedirectly.org OnPurpose first time gifts are matched, doubling your impact. Our goal is $1 million by year's end, enough to lift 700 families out of poverty. Join us at GiveDirectly.org onpurpose.
[31:48]
Radi Franklin
Did you have any wisdom from the spiritual, traditional community that you carried through with you that helped you through those tough times? Or do you feel it was you were trying to keep it out so much that it didn't really even have a chance? Like, I really felt that when I went back into the world of work, the thing that I held on to the most, that really changed My life. I genuinely mean. It was the. The verse that says, when you protect your purpose, your purpose protects you. And I'm translating Dharma as purpose in that regard. The original is, when you protect your Dharma, your Dharma protects you.
[32:23]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[32:23]
Radi Franklin
And when I heard that verse, that was just profound to me. And I started to want to protect what I believed my Dharma was rather than neglect it and reject it, to move toward what the world was trying to get me to focus on.
[32:38]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[32:39]
Radi Franklin
And that. That acted as a real compass for me when I was feeling unsure. Was there anything for you? I'm just intrigued. Or was it so, like, you were like, this is so alien. I have to keep it separate, that you were just trying to avoid it.
[32:51]
Janavi Harrison
That's such a great question. I don't think I've thought about it in that way before. I don't remember actually taking strength from the spiritual tradition, like, independently. I think my parents would try to help me with that. And I know for sure. I think on an emotional level, my mom was trying to get to care for me in every way possible. I mean, I really gave my parents a hard time. I'm also the eldest, so I was the first of the children to go out to school.
[33:19]
Radi Franklin
What do you mean you gave them a hard time?
[33:20]
Janavi Harrison
I would cry every day. I would beg not to go to school. I think they were just, you know, parents are just trying to do the best for you. They wanted me to have opportunity. They wanted me to grow intellectually, to, you know, to do well in studies and everything. And I think they were really confused about, like, how can we make curveball, be happy and just embrace this with confidence and not just be kind of stressed and anxious all the time. So, yeah, I feel really sorry for putting them through that. But they were definitely really trying to help also from a spiritual perspective, always in simple and digestible ways. But I think, yeah, it was difficult for me to really integrate that at the time.
[34:09]
Jay Shetty
Did you.
[34:10]
Radi Franklin
So many kids who grew up in religious and spiritual communities end up leaving?
[34:14]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[34:15]
Radi Franklin
Did you ever consider it?
[34:16]
Janavi Harrison
Not at the time. Not at the time. And people would always ask me that, and I would. It was like a very common question, especially from people outside of the tradition. They'd always be like, so did you ever want to just rebel and just leave? And I would always very confidently say, no, no, I never really had that inclination. One of the reasons, I think, with that is that my parents have been always very broad minded, very open to talking about anything, and I would have a lot of conversations, especially with my dad. About any, you know, any theological questions, philosophical things, doubts that would come to my mind. We would always talk about it. And he's very well read, very extensively in many different traditions, so he'll always have some great insight to offer. So I didn't feel that pull. But I think what I. I didn't know was that doubt and crisis of faith, or looking at your tradition from a different lens, it doesn't necessarily always happen in those formative teen times. Sometimes it can come later on, or sometimes comes multiple times through your life. So it's not that I ever felt the strong urge to leave, but I definitely went through some difficult times at a later phase, I think when I really started to. Yeah. It's almost like with every step further out into the wider world, it kind of demands of me to go deeper in what I practice and believe because it's being kind of butted up against just these intense currents of everything that's going on in the world.
[35:56]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. I often think about that because, you know, and Radi and I talk about, like, thinking about having children or whatever it is, and, like, how we want to raise them where they have good spiritual values, but at the same time, they have choice.
[36:07]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[36:07]
Radi Franklin
And. And it's always hard because you're kind of like, I always think.
[36:12]
Jay Shetty
I always believe that people who choose.
[36:14]
Radi Franklin
What they follow, and someone who's grown up in a tradition also gets that opportunity as they get older.
[36:20]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[36:20]
Radi Franklin
To keep choosing. Yeah.
[36:22]
Jay Shetty
And I always feel like when you.
[36:23]
Radi Franklin
Choose what you follow it, it. You're more confident about it. It generally has more power, generally speaking.
[36:28]
Janavi Harrison
But for sure.
[36:30]
Radi Franklin
But when you're raised in something, you have to choose as you get older because you choose whether this value is still yours. And the interesting thing about that is that also just applies to anyone who grew up in the normal system, because you grow up with certain beliefs your parents have, and then at one point you pause and you go, wait, do I even believe this?
[36:49]
Janavi Harrison
Exactly.
[36:50]
Radi Franklin
So your parents might have believed that. That you shouldn't work that hard, or you should marry a man who works hard. Or your parents may have had the belief that you should always do what.
[37:01]
Jay Shetty
You love or you should never do what you love. You should do what is safe and is reliable. And I think we all go through.
[37:06]
Radi Franklin
Our 20s and 30s and have reflection points.
[37:09]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[37:10]
Radi Franklin
Where we say, well, yeah, my parents believed that, but I didn't. And so it applies to all of life, but obviously, very specifically aligns to someone who's grown up in a specific tradition, in a Specific path.
[37:22]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[37:23]
Radi Franklin
When did music go from being passion, exploration, curiosity to mastery? Because I think this is such an important part. I think I hear a lot of people who say, follow your passion and I think that's okay, you know, but if you're going to turn it into something you do professionally. Yeah, the passion at one point has to turn in to proficiency and mastery. When did you start to actually master your art and craft? What did that look like?
[37:54]
Janavi Harrison
I don't identify with the word master in any way. And I don't mean that in a falsely humble way. I just. Yeah, I feel like I'm very much scratching the surface, but I think that it happened very organically. I started to, you know, when I was 18. I started to develop more of an independent interest in my own tradition and really engage with the mantra, meditation practice, kirtan, and also I'd been studying the violin since I was about 10 years old. And that was always something I did basically in my bedroom and in my room with the teacher. I never really used my instrument in a public place. I did one day in an orchestra and I got bullied. And then I was like, I'm not going back. So it was a very. Like, I got to a point and I was like, why am I even learning this instrument? So it was only when I started playing it at the temple in the kirtan and trying to improvise, I realized that, you know, aside from just participating in this activity musically, there's something I can offer, something I can develop and refine. And initially that was my connection through violin. That was my voice, you know, I was too shy to sing. But I think everything actually stemmed from there because through the violin, I ended up joining a mantra music group that was forming at the time, right as I was finishing my undergraduate degree. And I did not know what was I was going to do next. You know, I studied English and creative writing, linguistics. It was like very interesting to me, but I had no idea what to do with it. And this opportunity came like a month before my graduation to tour all over America and all around the world. It ended up being. So I was just. It was a no brainer. I was like, yeah, I want to do that. And I thought that it would just be. I still felt like, well, I'll have to get a regular job. I didn't know what that was. I actually then I did get a job as a magazine editor, but I got the job. And then right when I was meant to go back and take it, I was doing this touring beforehand and then I just wrote to them, I said, I'm sorry, I can't. I think I need to keep doing what I'm doing. It was, yeah, speaking to my soul, I guess. So it's been very organic. I think I have struggled with a lot of doubt along the way because anyone who does anything creative or artistic knows there's no assurance of any kind of ability to maintain yourself, have a livelihood with that activity. And so it's a real act of, I think, faith and courage to sort of just keep going with it year upon year. And so I was many times constantly questioning myself. Okay, so is now the point when I should get quote, unquote, regular job or something that's more. Yeah. Predictable and stable.
[41:11]
Radi Franklin
Do you think you experience divinity when you sing and make music in a way that you don't access through any other practice?
[41:22]
Janavi Harrison
I would say yes. Yeah, I do. I think it's an incredibly deep idea that you can access divinity through sound. Sound being so subtle, not requiring any instrument, any tool, just your own voice. And it just requires presence and it's very esoteric. But I feel like anyone can experience it also. Like we have ears to hear, you know, a voice to use. And. Yeah, I remember first starting to become aware of that around. I mean, I had many incredible moments when I was a child. You know, sometimes people ask me what some of my earliest memories of kirtan. And there's so many incredible times. Like there was a festival that would happen every year. We would walk in procession through London to this huge park, Battersea park, and there would be a festival, many tents there till late at night. And the kirtan would be going all afternoon into the evening. And I just remember feeling so joyful, so exhausted, but, like so filled by that experience. I think I started to really notice that, wow, there's something really special here. Around 16, 17, 18, and feel like. Like I want to come back to this. You know how you feel when you. I. I guess there's so many things you could. You could liken that to, but you just. Yeah, you want to keep doing it.
[43:03]
Radi Franklin
What have you found when people are. Because I think singing out loud can feel so nervous for people because it's this call and response where you're chanting and people are responding back, especially when you're live.
[43:12]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[43:14]
Radi Franklin
What have you seen, like, the transformation people have had where they start off. Because you do retreats, etc, where they start off really nervous and anxious and they're.
[43:21]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, yeah.
[43:21]
Radi Franklin
And then what have you seen that turn into, even for People who think like, I can't sing to save my life, or you don't like the sound of your voice or whatever it may be. My singing voice, I'm very confident speaking.
[43:32]
Janavi Harrison
But I've heard you sing. I think.
[43:34]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, it's terrible.
[43:35]
Janavi Harrison
I think you can say, now I.
[43:37]
Jay Shetty
Know you're lying for sure. Now I have proof that last night when you were talking about that thing, you were lying. But what. Yeah. What is that for you?
[43:45]
Radi Franklin
Like, what have you seen? I'm intrigued for people.
[43:48]
Jay Shetty
Anyone who's listening right now, Anyone who's.
[43:51]
Radi Franklin
Listening right now, I hope you're gonna go to Spotify or, you know, Apple and type in Johnny B. Harrison. And, you know, I'm looking. You've got like 134, 000 monthly listeners right now. And if someone was to listen to.
[44:04]
Jay Shetty
This music or they were going to.
[44:06]
Radi Franklin
Come and see you live.
[44:07]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[44:07]
Radi Franklin
And you'd say, hey, everyone, sing along with me. Which is very common at these events.
[44:11]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[44:13]
Radi Franklin
If someone's nervous in the beginning or doesn't quite get it, how have you seen people transform over time through retreats and events?
[44:19]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, I think it's really normal to feel nervous. I think many people, or even I would say most people, have some level of insecurity about singing out loud. I think the beautiful thing about it is that you're singing with other people, so you're not even. There's no demand that you even sing really loud. You can sing very quietly. But feeling that togetherness, I mean, we all can experience that. If we go to a concert or, I don't know, football match, everyone's singing the same thing together. It's empowering and it's connecting in a way that few things are of that nature. So I would even say that, you know, some people that lead this type of music are more strident or commanding and like, come on, everyone sing. You know, I think I being a. A more shy nature, I really empathize and understand how that feels to feel so nervous. So I don't expect people to push themselves in a way that feels just too uncomfortable. I always tell people, if you want to sing internally, because we have an internal voice as well, you can sing back in your heart. I do that on the plane if I'm stressed. I listen to something and then I sing back with my inner voice. But it's incredibly freeing. And I've seen people relax and become free in a way that they didn't expect by letting go and letting their voice out. You know, everything that feels uncomfortable Initially. Usually feels. You feel a great sense of achievement afterwards as well.
[45:59]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
[46:00]
Radi Franklin
What do you think. What do you think people turn to your music for?
[46:02]
Janavi Harrison
Like.
[46:03]
Radi Franklin
Like when you're finding people discovering your music.
[46:05]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[46:05]
Radi Franklin
Who are not from the tradition, who. Who don't. Aren't familiar with it.
[46:09]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[46:09]
Radi Franklin
What do they. I mean, like, you're. You have Radi's, I think, number one artist on Spotify Rap this year.
[46:13]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[46:15]
Jay Shetty
She's playing in the house all the time.
[46:17]
Radi Franklin
Like, what do you think people are?
[46:20]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. What.
[46:20]
Radi Franklin
What are people seeking? What have you found?
[46:23]
Janavi Harrison
I can say what people tell me, which is. I think people say that they find a sense of peace, a sense of shelter and comfort. A lot of people tell me that they listen to my music in difficult times, you know, so many people say, yeah, you know, I was studying for exams, my parent was unwell, someone in my family was dying, or, you know, I was getting ready to get married. And then I played your music on my wedding day as I was coming in these kind of. Of transitional and very meaningful moments in life. A lot of people talk about playing my music first thing in the morning or last thing at night when they want to connect to a place of deep prayer or a sacred space. Yeah. I think that's what people find. And I'm always blown away by people's stories, you know, because ultimately, you as a person, or I speak for myself. Like, we're so aware of our humanness and our flaws and everything that we bring to. You know, we bring all of it to every endeavor. So it's really incredible for me that I can do something that allows someone to enter into that space where they feel so deeply connected, because I know that that's not. It's me, because I'm allowing myself to be used in that way. But I know that there's something a lot deeper that's happening.
[47:54]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. Every time. I mean, every time I'm in one of your sessions, I'm, like, just in the back trying to hold back my tears.
[48:00]
Janavi Harrison
I've seen that I've got to cry.
[48:02]
Radi Franklin
I'm like.
[48:03]
Jay Shetty
It's.
[48:03]
Radi Franklin
It's. It's strange, though, because you can't really explain it. Yeah, it's. It's.
[48:07]
Jay Shetty
It's so hard to put into words.
[48:09]
Radi Franklin
Where you just got to be in one. And I've had, like, my team has come to sessions. Obviously, we have friends here who've come to events at our home, and. And it's amazing how you don't need.
[48:17]
Jay Shetty
To know the language.
[48:19]
Radi Franklin
You don't really, you don't even need to know to some degree. I know you always explain what it means, but even if someone doesn't know what it means, it's. It's. It's so interesting how. And sound has that potential. I think, you know, if you look at even music right now, like, Latin music is, you know, so global now, and, you know, you've got bad bunnies, Puerto Rican. And that style of music has taken over, and you've got. And that's what's so beautiful about music in general, is that it's so beyond language and so beyond where you grew up.
[48:46]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. It transmits regards, meaning you really feel it.
[48:50]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
[48:51]
Radi Franklin
Which is so special. And I definitely feel that in, you know, in mantra music in an unexpected way.
[48:57]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. Although I would say, you know, I've started to also experiment with. Or not experiment, but part of my creative journey in the last few years has been to write original songs also and incorporate that into. Especially when I do concerts, you know, I kind of distinguish certain settings for certain offerings. I think, you know, there's a lot of times I'll lead meditation sessions with kirtan in a very traditional sense, and it has a very. It can have a very intimate feeling, especially if people are. They know what to do, you know, they're ready. But in a more. Maybe. I don't know if theatrical setting is the right word to use, but in an auditorium where there may be people who have never done this before, I've started to weave together these traditional chants with sometimes original songs in English, because it's not only just a tool for making a connection point for someone else with a language of prayer, but for me also, I found it to be something that brings a certain vulnerability and personalism, too, which I think in some ways, growing up, I would have thought that that was taboo because the practice of kirtan is very much not about you putting yourself there. It's really being a vessel, being a channel to just give this pure sound. But I think that there's some value as well in sharing a personal prayer, personal reflection on just being someone trying to go through life and be connected to. To truth and faith and beauty.
[50:45]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. If someone wants to start with one of your albums, where would you like them to start? Like, if someone was like, I want to check this out. I don't really know much about it, what would you recommend?
[50:54]
Janavi Harrison
I think if someone's curious in just mostly the traditional songs and mantras. My first album, like A River to the Sea, is a great one, but I Think a lot of people connect with the album that I did with Willow Called Rise and then my recent album into the Forest. I think, I think Rise and Into the Forest are similar in that they incorporate both mantras and, and some original lyrics. Yeah, yeah.
[51:22]
Radi Franklin
That's great. Yeah. For anyone who's starting out there.
[51:24]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[51:24]
Radi Franklin
Their journey of wanting to, you know, move into devotional music and have never had the experience of it.
[51:31]
Janavi Harrison
Or they should check out Radi's Playlist.
[51:34]
Jay Shetty
Playlist.
[51:34]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. Yeah.
[51:35]
Janavi Harrison
So many people tell me, oh, I found your music through Radius. Yeah. She's got a great collection there. Also many other wonderful artists.
[51:42]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, I love that. I love that.
[51:43]
Radi Franklin
What's, what's a misconception you think people have about spiritual people?
[51:50]
Janavi Harrison
I think people tend to project a lot onto spiritual people, that they're like, you're so divine and like you must float around your house all day, you know, spouting like wisdom quotes.
[52:02]
Radi Franklin
And that's exactly what I do.
[52:06]
Janavi Harrison
I've seen you in your robes. Yeah. I think a misconception is that spiritual people don't have doubts, don't have material desires, don't make mistakes. Well, all of those things obviously are true. Or that spiritual people have all the answers. I think to try to pursue a life connected to a spiritual core is courageous because there is a level of faith that's required where there's not always a hard, hard answer. There's very good answers, but you also still have to be very open hearted and constantly open to learning and surrender, which is very, very difficult.
[52:53]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. Such a great answer. Not what I expected, but yeah. Such a great answer. It's. Yeah. Everyone's human and everyone's trying and everyone's failing and everyone's making mistakes. And I think the problem is when you, you think that a spiritual person is perfect.
[53:08]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[53:09]
Radi Franklin
Then you don't feel spiritual.
[53:11]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[53:11]
Radi Franklin
Internally.
[53:12]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[53:12]
Radi Franklin
Because you don't feel like you've reached what other people have reached or what you should have reached.
[53:17]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[53:17]
Radi Franklin
And that can actually deter you from the path.
[53:20]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[53:20]
Radi Franklin
Because you think, oh, well, I'm not like that.
[53:22]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[53:22]
Radi Franklin
And they have it all together and therefore I must not be spiritual.
[53:25]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[53:26]
Radi Franklin
Not realizing that we all already are inherently.
[53:29]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[53:29]
Radi Franklin
And perfection may be the goal and the aspiration, but the journey towards it is far more incremental and step by step than it is incremental. This enlightened day, I think, you know, I, I think that's a misconception. I always think, is people always like, what was the day you've realized right. I have not had that.
[53:49]
Janavi Harrison
Came down from the cloud.
[53:50]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. And it's again, it's how media's portrayed it, where it feels like you have.
[53:53]
Radi Franklin
This day of enlightenment.
[53:55]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[53:55]
Radi Franklin
It's like, yeah, I've had really special meditations. I've had really special experiences. But it's three steps forward, one step back, two steps pause, three steps forward.
[54:05]
Janavi Harrison
You know, times 10 steps back, and you're like, what am I doing wrong? Or.
[54:09]
Radi Franklin
And that's what's meant to be.
[54:11]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. Yeah. I do find that, you know, I, I, I encountered that the more that I became publicly known for doing mantra meditation and devotion, sacred music, I would start to encounter more and more people coming to me. Like, with, you know, shining eyes, I could feel. And sometimes it's very obvious by the words they say that they are, for want of a better phrase, putting me on a pedestal or thinking that there's some kind of perfection happening, which I know is not true. And I think part of that is anyone that's kind of facilitating us to go into a spiritual practice or experience, we may, you know, associate that person with the feeling and the very real experience that we get. But I think, yeah, I think as you get older, especially just accepting both your own, being patient with your own flaws, I've definitely had to learn to be very patient with myself because. Yeah, I mean, we're blessed to have as well. You know, we're blessed to know so many people who truly are exemplary in their life and their actions. And. Yeah. I mean, I identify without looking at someone thinking, God, you know, I'm never gonna be, I'm never gonna be spiritual.
[55:38]
Radi Franklin
What's something that you used to believe to be true spiritually and now you don't agree with it?
[55:47]
Janavi Harrison
I think, I think growing up in a particular spiritual tradition, you can have. You're surrounded by constant affirmation and validation of that tradition. You know, if you're immersed in a community, you're surrounded by people who believe in that path, in those practices. And I think the more that I've grown and encountered people from all different walks of life who've had all different kinds of experiences. I don't know if it's so much something that I don't believe anymore, but it challenges a lot of things that I've heard, things that I've just accepted because everyone around me was saying, yes, yes, and I really value that. I feel that's necessary. But it's not always easy, because sometimes there's not an easy resolution or answer to conflicting worldviews. And opinions about things. So that's something that I've encountered a lot on my journey. Sometimes it's even people that are within the same broad category of a religion or a faith tradition, but, you know, different strands of. Of specific beliefs. There's so much nuance. And. Yeah, I think I've found it harder to. To be like, this is the answer.
[57:21]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. I. I agree. I think it's a healthy thing. And it's also.
[57:29]
Janavi Harrison
It.
[57:29]
Radi Franklin
The brain just doesn't like it. For simplicity's sake, it's just easier for the brain to have its set of beliefs and move with them, even if they're not healthy.
[57:37]
Janavi Harrison
And.
[57:38]
Radi Franklin
And so when you allow yourself to be in a paradox.
[57:41]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, it's.
[57:43]
Radi Franklin
It's challenging.
[57:44]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[57:44]
Radi Franklin
And that's why we avoid it. That's why we prefer left or right or black or white or binary thinking. And so I. I find that in my own self, I try and live it like that. I try and live in the middle of the Venn diagram. Always, like, trying not to be binary.
[58:00]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[58:00]
Radi Franklin
But it's hard because you're. It's so much easier to. To pick a place to live and say, yeah, I'm gonna go all in and believe this is the truth, or I'm gonna refute it. And it's like, well, no, there's things that make sense and there's things that don't make sense. And I was just saying to someone this morning, I was like, it's funny how we've always talked about how whether the glass is half full or half empty. And I'm like, it's both.
[58:23]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[58:24]
Radi Franklin
Like, it's always both.
[58:26]
Jay Shetty
That's just a stupid question, because could you see it?
[58:29]
Janavi Harrison
Could you see it through? Like, could one eye have. Have one lens and the other. Have the other? Both things.
[58:34]
Jay Shetty
Yeah. And both things are true.
[58:35]
Radi Franklin
If. If a glass is half full, it.
[58:38]
Jay Shetty
Is therefore half empty.
[58:39]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[58:39]
Radi Franklin
And so therefore, the right answer is I see both.
[58:42]
Janavi Harrison
Right.
[58:42]
Jay Shetty
And if you see both, it means.
[58:43]
Radi Franklin
I can fill the glass up.
[58:44]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[58:45]
Radi Franklin
And it also means I have more to drink.
[58:46]
Jay Shetty
And so this idea of, do you.
[58:47]
Radi Franklin
See the glasses half full or half empty? The answer is both, but it's. The brain doesn't want the answer. The brain just wants to choose one or the other. So we either become positive or, you know, evangelists of our beliefs, or we become negative and pessimists of that belief, and we don't recognize that most things have lots of good in them and lots of things that they could improve and.
[59:07]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[59:07]
Radi Franklin
And grow. But it's the brain, for simplicity's sake, prefers one or the other.
[59:11]
Janavi Harrison
And. Yeah.
[59:12]
Radi Franklin
Yeah.
[59:13]
Janavi Harrison
And sometimes it's hard to feel, you know, it's difficult because you also don't want to be. Sometimes you have to choose a specific direction or, you know, there is specificity to the choices we make and. And sometimes for integrity, you need to kind of define things. Is it this or is it that? But anyway, it's very context based as well, I find. But I don't know. I don't know if it's because of me also trying to connect with that space. But I know a lot of people have told me that there's so many people who have grown up in religious environments who have experienced a lot of heavy judgments or trauma even. It seems more common than not. Sometimes, or at least maybe I just encounter people who speak about that. And I've felt encouraged that people have said when they've come to my events or gatherings that they feel it's a safe space to be in a spiritual space but not have something imposed upon them. And. And I feel happy about that. You know, I want to try to hold that tension. I don't know if it's tension, but it's like, you know, walking a path of integrity and specificity oneself, but being able to create space that feels very inclusive and welcoming for everyone.
[60:46]
Radi Franklin
Foreign.
[60:51]
Jay Shetty
Support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. If you're listening right now and feeling that pull to grow in your career or make a bigger impact, Walden is designed exactly for that. For over 50 years, they've helped working adults get the W with the knowledge, confidence, and real skills to create meaningful changes. What makes Walden stand out is how flexible it is with Walden's tempo Learning. You're in control. No set weekly deadlines, no rigid schedules, just a pace that actually fits. Your life. And everything you learn is practical. You're working through real world scenarios that prepare you to make a positive difference in your community and beyond. You're also guided by faculty who've lived the work themselves, scholars and practitioners with real experience. This is the kind of opportunity that reminds you it's never too late to go after what you want. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is it. Head to waldenu. Edu and take that first step. Walden University set a course for change. Certified to operate by Chev. This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given. And Chase Sapphire Reserve has been my gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. Every time I travel, I find a part of myself I didn't know was missing. I remember being in this small town completely unplugged, and for the first time in a while I felt still, travel does that. It grounds you, expands you and connects you to something deeper, cheaper. That's why I'm always looking for experiences that go beyond the typical. Chase Sapphire Reserve makes traveling a breeze, earning eight times points on all purchases through Chase Travel and granting access to Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. No matter my destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase sapphire reserve@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.
[63:13]
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[63:51]
Radi Franklin
Has there ever been anything that's really difficult that you've gone through in life that you feel your faith has been integral to moving through?
[64:01]
Janavi Harrison
I don't think there's been a life event like, you know, some of the huge things that happen or, you know, losing a loved one, things like that, that are often the cause of a, you know, a deep grief and sorrow that, you know, sometimes leads to a spiritual search. But I think I have experienced crisis of faith which required faith to come out of.
[64:33]
Jay Shetty
That's good. Yeah.
[64:34]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. Which, yeah, took me by surprise. You know, I think the experience, especially if you're used to being someone who, who. That's something that you do feel sure of. And then when it's suddenly not there, it can feel like rug is pulled out from under your feet. And I, I felt like I'm. I'm not quite sure who I am. You know, you're like, like, like in a coloring book. You know, you've got the lines and that's like the defined. You color within the lines. But imagine if the lines just disappeared and you just color like who am I? Without that. But I have experienced that a couple of times. Yeah.
[65:16]
Radi Franklin
It'S an interesting answer because, yeah, it's like how I hosted the variety Faith in Spirituality honors last week. And I was talking about how the people who are being awarded and honored, they've showed different types of faith. And I was saying it showed having faith, messy faith, losing faith. And that's what makes it so real. Where I think faith based content or people sometimes have always been shown as one note, we're like, this is who you are.
[65:46]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[65:47]
Radi Franklin
Or like, this is the kind of person you should be.
[65:49]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. Gotta believe.
[65:50]
Radi Franklin
Yeah.
[65:51]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
[65:51]
Radi Franklin
And now I think we're showing these variegated depictions of what faith can look like and spirituality can look like. And it's just so much more real because.
[66:04]
Janavi Harrison
Relatable.
[66:04]
Radi Franklin
Yeah, relatable and grounded and accessible and just truly transparent because that's what it can look like. And I think if anyone is a person of. How did faith help you refine faith? When there was a crisis of faith?
[66:18]
Janavi Harrison
I think there was a period of time and it wasn't that long, but because of the disorientation that I felt, it felt a lot longer than it was. I think of feeling like the faith had just totally evaporated. And you know, it feels like a type of. It feels like a type of darkness because something that had previously given you a lot of light and internal support and nourishment just seems to disappear or it seems like vapor. Was that actually real? And I think faith almost, it felt like it seeped in almost like, you know, through a pinhole where you get light that just comes through a tiny crack and it gradually grows. But initially there had to be a speck of faith for me to think that faith could even return. In a way. I had to be open to that. And. And I found through that experience I connected more to prayer spontaneously and personally versus more ritual type of worship or a set practice or routine. More spontaneously, more expressively in. In English. And it's funny because I. I grew up, you know, completely steeped in prayer, like throughout the day, because that's just the environment I was in. I was thinking about the soundscape of my. Of my life growing up. There was always bells ringing. And you know, in. In my tradition, we blow this conch shell, there's these kind of spiritual sounds around and ancient mantras. Sanskrit was a very familiar language for me. But what I didn't have confidence and ease with was praying in the language that I speak and actually being that personal to just be alone and speak those words, whatever was coming up. And I think that was a really transformative experience and time for me. And actually led to some of the songs that I've recorded because eventually I thought, you know, you don't always think like that I should record this because it's so personal and specific. But I did feel that I bet there are others who go through these times or who feel these emotions who may. It may enable them to express words that they can't find the words to say.
[69:04]
Radi Franklin
Do you think we all need to talk to God more?
[69:08]
Janavi Harrison
100%. 100%. Yeah. I was thinking about this ahead of our chat because I was thinking about how much, you know, in the last. I don't know if it's the last decade, but of course mindfulness is a word that we've heard so much. Meditation has become something that is so in many ways integrated into. You know, it's not that everyone does it, but if you say it, no one's going to probably look at you funny. You might see people doing in an ad or, you know, I always remember walking into, I think it was gap or something, you know, on a high street. And there were these mannequins sitting like this in the lotus position. And I was like, oh, interesting. This is like filtering into just everyday, you know, culture and fashion. But I was thinking about how meditation can bring us into this space of stillness and internal connection. But what am I meditating on? And the difference between just coming to a place of groundedness, stillness, calming the mind and prayer to me is quite distinct. That's my personal take on it. You know, someone may use those terms differently and describe it differently, but I feel like, yeah, if prayer is not something that you've ever done or even if it is something that's familiar that you did grow up with. I feel like, you know, sometimes they say, oh, just try doing something with your left hand or your non dominant hand because it will reveal something to you or you'll feel a different way of looking at something and doing something. I think, yeah, it might be something that listeners would like to try, you know, to either approach it for the first time or approach it through a different pathway.
[71:04]
Radi Franklin
Yeah, I like, that's like a new neural pathway almost.
[71:09]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, yeah.
[71:09]
Radi Franklin
Why not try?
[71:10]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, yeah. Sometimes it involves, you know, there's so many different ways that people pray. For some people it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized way of placing their, their body in a certain position or doing certain actions. And I think all of those things are designed to bring us into a certain state of mind and of being that allows, can allow you to express some of these deepest. These deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard to access in a natural way.
[71:45]
Radi Franklin
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. For me, like, I find I love talking to God when I'm driving.
[71:51]
Janavi Harrison
I do that. I do that.
[71:52]
Jay Shetty
That's my favorite.
[71:53]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. In one of the hardest times I experienced, that was the time he just reminded me of that I. I would just talk. Yeah. Driving by myself. Cry.
[72:03]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
[72:04]
Janavi Harrison
Speak. Sing.
[72:05]
Radi Franklin
I. I find driving to be so therapeutic and a place to share streams of thoughts.
[72:10]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[72:11]
Radi Franklin
And I always love it. I think it also reminds me of that Bruce Almighty scene where he's, like, asking God for a sign.
[72:17]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[72:17]
Radi Franklin
God keeps sending him loads of signs and ignoring them. And then his car goes off the bridge or whatever it is, and I'm like. Like, yeah. I'm always looking around for signs when.
[72:25]
Jay Shetty
I'm driving and connecting billboards to. To God's message to me. And it's just like this fun idea that. That there's some.
[72:32]
Radi Franklin
You know, there's some power in what I'm reading and seeing. So I love that.
[72:37]
Jay Shetty
Last question before the final five.
[72:39]
Radi Franklin
What's a question you ask yourself when you feel lost?
[72:47]
Janavi Harrison
Am I connected with my. Am I. Am I being of service? Am I actually connected with service in this moment?
[73:01]
Radi Franklin
Because you believe that if you're connected to service, then you'll have found where you belong.
[73:05]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. I feel like it's a state of being, which is protective because it's protective of the experience of being totally lost because you're focusing on giving. It's. It's hard being a embodied human. You know, it's so easy to feel lost for so many different reasons, but when you're thinking about how you can serve someone else, whatever that may look like, I find that that really helps me.
[73:32]
Radi Franklin
It's such a great answer, and I couldn't agree more. And I think it's. I think it's one of the biggest losses of modern education.
[73:40]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[73:40]
Radi Franklin
And modern space, where everything to solve you is all about you.
[73:45]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[73:46]
Radi Franklin
And not about anyone else. And there's been studies on this, too. Like, if you have depression and you help people who have depression, your depression goes down. And so even in a really difficult state, the act of service can still be helpful to yourself. What to speak of when things are not that bad.
[74:01]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[74:01]
Radi Franklin
And, yeah, it's fascinating to me how we always think, oh, if I have more, then I'll be able to give more. But, yeah, actually, wherever you are just now, you already may have a little more than someone else. And if you can help and Support in whatever way. Time, energy, money, if that is your way of helping. Yeah, I love that answer. Such a good answer.
[74:21]
Janavi Harrison
It's something I've been trying to say this prayer every day, and it's a traditional Sanskrit prayer. I won't say all the words, but it ends with the phrase das, anu, das, and that means servant of the servant. And it's funny, when I was growing up and, you know, this is one of those things that in a religious community, a certain thing becomes a way that people do things, which from the outside can seem a bit weird. So everybody would sign a letter or a message, your servant. And I can't remember when it happened, but maybe we were visiting some relatives or something. But I just saw that through a different lens and I thought that must sound so funny because the idea of being a servant is not something that we would regard very highly in a sort of regular world, but it's a really profound spiritual idea that to identify as a servant as like an essential identity keeps you always looking for ways to contribute and give. So. Yeah, I find that really helps me a lot.
[75:29]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. I think if you. It's really interesting because I think. Think the misconception of that is when we think, oh, that means I have to stay small.
[75:39]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. Or that means I'm going to be exploited.
[75:42]
Radi Franklin
Correct. And. And it's almost like there's the. Been the servant leadership movement.
[75:47]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[75:47]
Radi Franklin
And even the idea of, oh, you could be the CEO of a company and see yourself in service of others.
[75:53]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[75:54]
Radi Franklin
Like, it's. It's not based on your position in society.
[75:57]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[75:58]
Radi Franklin
It's based on the mood and intention that you do that act with. So someone could be the coach of the biggest soccer team in the world and see themselves as serving their team.
[76:08]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[76:08]
Radi Franklin
And someone could be the best player in the world and see themselves as serving their team. Or you could be all those things and think you're the best thing in the world and no one else is important. And so it's got nothing to do with your external position.
[76:21]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[76:21]
Radi Franklin
And I think the problem, we think, is, oh, my external position has to match that.
[76:25]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[76:25]
Radi Franklin
So therefore I won't be small.
[76:27]
Jay Shetty
Yeah.
[76:27]
Radi Franklin
I've got to be small and play small. And it doesn't make any sense because.
[76:30]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. I'd like to understand. I'd like to understand and grasp that more deeply because I think I still struggle with that. Like, you've always, you know, in our friendship, you've always encouraged me to embrace what I'm doing and be, you know, Unafraid to, I guess, grow and broadcast out what I'm doing, you know, bigger and bigger as a service. But it's so difficult when you're. You're more visible or more in a position of leadership to continue to kind of harmonize that idea that I'm serving, but also have to kind of have the things that go along with being more in a leadership position. I don't know. For me, I find it challenging.
[77:15]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. No, I don't disagree. I think that the more closer you get to your unique service, the less you see it as big and small and the more you see it as just yours was. And so there is no. It kind of fades away because it's so clearly what you were meant to do.
[77:32]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[77:33]
Radi Franklin
That then you don't see it as big or expansive or small or not.
[77:37]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[77:38]
Radi Franklin
It just is.
[77:39]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[77:40]
Radi Franklin
And. And therefore, I find that people who know their purpose and their dharma are less envious and less comparative and less.
[77:48]
Janavi Harrison
Right.
[77:48]
Radi Franklin
All of those things because they just found their thing.
[77:51]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. You can, you know, you can't be or do what someone else is doing because you know yourself so well.
[77:57]
Radi Franklin
Correct.
[77:58]
Janavi Harrison
And you feel aligned in what you're doing. I guess. I guess I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that now. I think I've finally accepted myself as doing what I'm doing, and this is who I am. It's taken a long time.
[78:10]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. Well, God in the universe had to nominate you for a Grammy to get you to understand that.
[78:14]
Janavi Harrison
I mean, he knows that I need a big push, you know? Yeah.
[78:18]
Radi Franklin
I love it. This been so nice getting to know you this way.
[78:21]
Jay Shetty
Like, I know we've. We've had so many conversations.
[78:23]
Radi Franklin
I mean, whenever you're over at the house and you come over, we'll, like, you know, stay up and talk for hours and hours and hours. We. You know, I love having these conversations, but I feel. I'm so glad I get to share you with the community. And I know you've been on before. A few years back now, that was 2020. 20. Was it 2020?
[78:38]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, it was. In your old place. Studio.
[78:41]
Radi Franklin
So amazing to have you back on.
[78:43]
Janavi Harrison
Thank you. And I'm a fan of the podcast, so this is like, like, very cool for me.
[78:48]
Radi Franklin
It's awesome to have you here. And we end every episode as, you know, as a fan of the podcast, with the final five.
[78:53]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[78:53]
Radi Franklin
These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Wow. Everyone does one sentence. No one does.
[78:58]
Janavi Harrison
Okay. Okay.
[79:00]
Radi Franklin
So, Gianna B. Harrison, these Are your final five.
[79:02]
Janavi Harrison
Thank you.
[79:02]
Radi Franklin
Question one. What is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
[79:09]
Janavi Harrison
Don't be afraid.
[79:12]
Radi Franklin
Who told you that? Do you remember?
[79:13]
Janavi Harrison
I've heard it from many different people, but I think my parents, mentors. Yeah. And it's there in the Bhagavad Gita. Don't be afraid. Have trust and courage and keep, keep walking forward in your purpose.
[79:26]
Radi Franklin
Yes. Question number two. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?
[79:33]
Janavi Harrison
Anything related to, to what are. What will other people think?
[79:38]
Radi Franklin
Definitely. Definitely.
[79:40]
Jay Shetty
It's when you say you want to.
[79:42]
Radi Franklin
Do something and goes, what will?
[79:44]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[79:45]
Radi Franklin
It's a good answer. Question number three. Is there a decision you made that didn't make any logical sense but was the right one for you?
[79:56]
Janavi Harrison
The decision I made to on purpose miss a plane home to get to take up this job as a magazine editor. I, I've never, I'm always like a real rule, rule follower. And the fact that I had a flight booked is. And I intentionally missed it and just said I'm going to drop that. That didn't make any sense at the time. And the next morning when I woke up, I was like, what did I do? But I think I was trying to follow a deeper intuition and it turned out to lead me to this and many other moments. But it took a long time for me to realize had to have confidence in that decision along the way.
[80:38]
Radi Franklin
Yeah. I'm so glad you did that. Question number four. What's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?
[80:45]
Janavi Harrison
I think I used to put a lot more value on other people's opinions. And that doesn't mean that I don't now, but it's something I've actively worked on because I've realized how, how, how damaging it can be to place that much weight and concern on what other people are thinking and saying. But I don't know if I could have come to that point any earlier. Yeah, it's part of growing up for sure.
[81:17]
Radi Franklin
So yeah, it's the biggest one. It's a weird one. You wanna, it's almost like you wanna choose which opinions you listen to from which people.
[81:25]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[81:25]
Radi Franklin
Because we all have to listen to some like. And you know, as we talk about in spirituality, there has to be some sense of authority. And the challenge is when you give everyone an authority and all of a sudden now you listen to everyone with equal. You listen to everyone with equal attention despite their lack of authority or competence or character weight to that weight.
[81:46]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[81:46]
Radi Franklin
When it doesn't have any value.
[81:48]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[81:48]
Radi Franklin
That's what I think is the issue. We all have to listen to someone, but we give too much weight and value to people who don't know anything about that or us.
[81:57]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah, I think I used to do that to the extreme, probably because of also growing up in an environment where you're expected to, you know, respectfully hear from anyone who's older than you or, you know, knows more than you. But, yeah, it's a work. I'm a work in progress, for sure.
[82:15]
Radi Franklin
No, I came up with a system when I wrote Think Like a Monk to make it easier because I struggled with that so much in spiritual circles, for sure, but in general, and came up with something that I call the four Cs, which is character, care, consistency, and competence. And so I think about the problem that I have, and then I figure out who I'm speaking to based on one of those four. So if it's a morality question.
[82:38]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[82:38]
Radi Franklin
I have to ask the person of high character, because if I just ask the person who cares about me, they may bend morality in my favor. Or if I am worried about my health, I've got to talk to the person who cares about me but is also competent. Whereas the person who might have. Who might consistently be around me, they may not have the best insight and advice. Or like, for example, if I talk to my mom, she just cares if I've eaten well. Well. But she won't give me the best work advice because she'd prefer I take care of myself than do something good for work. And so.
[83:10]
Janavi Harrison
So do they all four have to be there or. It's different things for different.
[83:14]
Radi Franklin
I believe no one has all four. Oh, and there are different things for different decisions.
[83:20]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[83:20]
Radi Franklin
And they just care about you.
[83:21]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[83:22]
Radi Franklin
So their advice is skewed. But their opinion is also.
[83:26]
Jay Shetty
One of my favorite quotes says, don't.
[83:28]
Radi Franklin
Take directions from someone who's never been to where you're going. And we all do that. We all take someone's opinion, and they've not even been there. They've never. They've never reached that or achieved that. And we're sitting here taking their word as gospel.
[83:41]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[83:42]
Radi Franklin
And so, yeah, those. Those four Cs have kind of really helped me.
[83:46]
Janavi Harrison
That is really helpful.
[83:47]
Radi Franklin
Yeah.
[83:47]
Janavi Harrison
Tough. It's a tough one to. To learn because you may have people that are very close to you and you assume that by intimacy, by the fact that they know you so deeply that. That they will have all or at least most of those. But. Yeah, it's not necessarily the case.
[84:03]
Radi Franklin
Yeah, even. Even my mom, like, my mom has very good character. She cares about me. She's consistent, but she's not competent in every area. She's competent in some areas. There's some things my mom has great insight on, but she's not competent in every area of my life. And therefore it's not, you know, but anyway.
[84:19]
Jay Shetty
All right, fifth and final question.
[84:20]
Radi Franklin
We asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
[84:28]
Janavi Harrison
I would love everyone to talk to God more. I feel like a lot of, you know, like a domino effect, a lot of things would shift. And I know it sounds like a cliche, but to truly have this mood of being in service to others, to each other, imagine if that was like a compulsory thing, just to be a citizen of the world. I think it would be a beautiful world.
[85:03]
Radi Franklin
It's a great answer. How do you know if you're talking to God or talking to yourself?
[85:07]
Janavi Harrison
You know, it's intention. It's intention. You might. It might look like you're talking to yourself, but I think you. It's. Yeah, it's purely about your intention if you address God. I mean, if you are familiar with any spiritual tradition, most. Most will agree that God is everywhere in everything. Everything is coming from him, Her. And so there's so many different ways to do that. And yeah, you can do it in your own way or you can get guidance on how to do it, but I think if you've. If you've not experienced it before, it's just. It's so worth it, and it's not worth. It's not worth missing out on what you may find through that experience to, you know, to kind of leave it aside.
[86:02]
Radi Franklin
Everyone. The album is called into the Forest. Genevieve Harrison just got nominated for a Grammy. I'm so excited I'll be at the Grammy, so fingers crossed.
[86:10]
Janavi Harrison
Hoping see you in two months.
[86:11]
Radi Franklin
Hoping for the win.
[86:12]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah.
[86:13]
Radi Franklin
For any of you, don't already, please follow Janavi Harrison on Instagram. You can subscribe to her music on Spotify and listen along to the album she's mentioned today. And Genevieve, thank you so much for being such a dear friend for doing this interview and so proud of you. So excited for this really big moment in your amazing career. And just you doing something based on service and devotion and it being recognized at this level, it's. That's so exciting.
[86:40]
Janavi Harrison
Thank you. I want to say thank you to you because you've been such an encouraging friend, but also, I think so many of these very meaningful moments in my journey have been somehow connected to you. Through serving together, I've learned so much, and I recognize that a lot of significant growth that I've had has been through your encouragement. I really feel that. So I share the Grammy nomination with you.
[87:11]
Jay Shetty
Well, and everyone. I'll add that to my bio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[87:15]
Janavi Harrison
No, it's really a privilege. I'm so grateful to be here.
[87:18]
Radi Franklin
No, you're so kind. And. And honestly, it's been such a joy. Like, it's fun looking back at those pictures of the last 20 years.
[87:25]
Janavi Harrison
Did you mention Weymouth at the beginning?
[87:26]
Jay Shetty
I did, I did, yeah. I did, yeah.
[87:28]
Radi Franklin
Do you know, the funny thing about that picture is I'm actually sitting behind.
[87:31]
Jay Shetty
A pillar, so you can't even see me in a it.
[87:33]
Radi Franklin
But it's like.
[87:34]
Jay Shetty
Yeah, we drove to Weymouth, which I.
[87:35]
Radi Franklin
Can'T remember how far that is from London.
[87:37]
Janavi Harrison
I think it was about three hours. Three hours.
[87:39]
Jay Shetty
We stayed the night.
[87:40]
Radi Franklin
We did an event. It was like 10 people came.
[87:42]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. And, like, I mean, it's a beautiful event.
[87:44]
Jay Shetty
It was a beautiful event. But that's the kind of.
[87:46]
Radi Franklin
You know, it's. It's fun talking about these things because it's easy to sit here now and, you know, you nominate for a Grammy and all the rest of it, but it's like. No, it's like we used to drive three hours, and I would do a talk and you would chant and lead meditation, and we would do that for free, just wanting to do our service. And we do it all the time. We did it at universities. We did it, and it was just for free all the time together. And it's fun looking back and. And, you know, we both still do so many things for the community and here and there, but it's just so. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun looking back.
[88:20]
Janavi Harrison
Yeah. And how to channel and hold on to that same spirit. Even though the. The form, you know, the vessel of it may change, it may have more kind of image of material success, but the intention that, yes, I want to be there and I want to show up with everything that I can give, how to kind of. Yeah. Hold on to that. I know there was a magic about those times. Yeah. Yeah. I remember doing these meditation sessions at SOAS University. I remember running from the Tube station across Russell Square, and it would be like three students would be there, and we'd do that for an hour. But, yeah, this precious times anytime you get those kind of opportunities. I think so.
[89:06]
Radi Franklin
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much.
[89:07]
Janavi Harrison
Thank you. Yay.
[89:09]
Jay Shetty
If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr. Daniel Amen on how to change your life by changing your brain.
[89:17]
Radi Franklin
If we want a healthy mind, it.
[89:20]
Commercial Announcer
Actually starts with a healthy brain.
[89:23]
Radi Franklin
You know, I've had the blessing or.
[89:25]
Jay Shetty
The curse to scan over a thousand.
[89:28]
Commercial Announcer
Convicted felons and over 100 murderers, and their brains are very damaged.
[89:36]
Jay Shetty
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[90:27]
Commercial Announcer
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[90:57]
Sophie Cunningham
This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snore loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.
[91:35]
Janavi Harrison
This is an IHEART podcast. Guaranteed human.