Jay’s Must-Listens: 7 Tools For Navigating Grief That Will Bring You Comfort When Nothing Else Can Ft. Kate Cassidy & Taylor Hill

Summary

Podcast Summary

On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Episode: Jay’s Must-Listens: 7 Tools For Navigating Grief That Will Bring You Comfort When Nothing Else Can
Guests: Kate Cassidy, Nicole Evan, Taylor Hill, Karan Johar
Date: December 24, 2025

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Overview

In this deeply compassionate episode, Jay Shetty gathers candid, personal stories from guests who have each faced significant loss—whether of a loved one, a parent, a pet, or a potential future. The episode aims to offer comfort, practical tools, and the reassurance that grief, in all its forms, is both universal and uniquely personal. Listeners are guided through the evolving journey of grief, emphasizing the value of small rituals, forgiveness, honest conversations, and allowing space for every kind of loss.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grief and the Holidays

• Jay Shetty (01:42): Highlights how holidays can magnify both connection and loss.

  "The holiday season can be a time of connection and celebration but it can also quietly amplify grief, memories, and the absence of someone we deeply love."
  (01:42)

• Research: Nearly one in three adults struggles with prolonged grief, especially during times of heightened togetherness.
• Perspective: Grief isn't something to "get over"; it's learning how to carry love forward in new ways.

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2. Kate Cassidy: Grief After Losing a Partner

• Initial Numbness:

  "In the beginning, everything felt numb, like she was floating outside of herself." (02:57)

• Small Rituals as Healing:
  • Everyday acts—listening to favorite songs, talking about loved ones, noticing 'signs'—became touchstones in healing.
  • The significance of seeing angel numbers (444), and specific signs associated with her late boyfriend Liam.

  "The answer said four for four. That was Liam listening to me, and he was giving me a sign saying, I know I am here." (08:20)

• Normalizing Anger and Guilt in Grief:

  "It’s okay to be angry, and it’s okay to cry, and it’s okay to say things. It’s okay." (04:28)

• Signs from Loved Ones:
  • Details of meaningful coincidences in LA: the wallpaper identical to her London home, a special song playing, repeated sightings of the number '4' after asking for a sign from Liam.

  "Everywhere, we were just seeing fours... The wallpaper is the exact same wallpaper as me and Liam’s bathroom..." (09:15)

• Loneliness:

  "The hardest thing... is this loneliness feeling... Everything reminds me of him." (13:02)

7 Tools from Kate’s Story (Implied, Not Directly Enumerated):

• Trust your gut and heart
• Engage in any daily small activity
• Allow all feelings (anger, sadness, laughter)
• Maintain rituals, even small ones
• Be open to signs and symbolism
• Communicate and reminisce about your loved one
• Accept that healing is non-linear

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3. Nicole Evan: The Power of Forgiveness After Tragedy

• Losing Her Mother to Violence: Had to choose whether to let anger consume her or to lean into faith and forgiveness.
• Leaning into Faith:

  "The reason I grew stronger in my faith, as opposed to leaving it, is because I really do believe that the universe has kind of laid it all out." (18:40)

• The Role of Choice:

  "The power of free will, which my mom always reminded me about, is that we as human beings do have free will. We have the freedom to choose how we're going to live, choose how we're going to think." (19:25)

• Bitterness vs. Hope:

  "I was so afraid of becoming a bitter person... If I hold on to these feelings, I’m gonna sink myself." (21:00)

• Forgiveness:
  Not about condoning, but about not letting pain define her.
• Hopefulness of 'Tomorrow':

  "Tomorrow keeps me hopeful. My mom always used to say, you have to have something to look forward to..." (21:55)

• Memorable Quote:

  "Grief is the receipt from the universe showing that you loved someone or something and loved them very deeply." - From her friend Penny (23:12)

• Emphasizing Life over the Moment of Loss:

  "Even though your mother’s death was shocking, her life was beautiful... it was no longer a 'but' and once I changed but to 'and', I didn’t have to choose." (25:00–26:00)

• Advice from T.D. Jakes:

  "Do you want your focus to be on her last five minutes, or are you going to focus on the 81 years that she lived? And it's your choice..." (26:49)

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4. Karan Johar: The Importance of Conversations Before Goodbye

• Facing His Father’s Terminal Diagnosis:
  • The gift of having ten months to talk deeply, openly, and resolve unfinished conversations.

  "I have complete closure with my relationship with my father because I have no unanswered questions." (29:22)

• Communication Heals:

  "I always tell people, like, communicate today because there may not be a tomorrow. Communication is the resolve, it's the solution to every problem." (32:50–33:40)

• Practical Legacy:
  • His father left him an 11-page hand-written letter with detailed business advice and wisdom—no flowery words, just practical care.

  "He knew he was going, so he wrote me that... It became my bible." (34:54–35:39)

• Cultural Insight:
  • Respect in families should not create distance; real respect can coexist with openness.
• Quote:

  "Nothing is worse than losing a loved one. But you eventually have to come to terms with the fact that it's happened. That's why there’s a full stop, because the next sentence has to begin." (28:40)

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5. Taylor Hill: Grieving Miscarriage and the Loss of a Pet

• Miscarriage and Disenfranchised Grief:
  • The pain of miscarriage is often dismissed by others, making it lonelier.

  “It’s not comforting to know other people have gone through it… I needed to be alone. I needed to feel it. I needed to sit in it. I didn’t want to talk about it.” (39:39–40:00)

• What Helped:
  • Presence without pressure; friends and loved ones who simply showed up, sat in silence, or mirrored her emotions helped most.

  “They just held my hand… they didn’t ask me questions… they were there for me physically.” (41:17–41:50)

• Supporting Others Through Loss:
  • Let people grieve at their own pace; check in, but don’t force conversations or solutions.
• Ongoing Friendship:
  • Female friendships provided validation and continual support, even years later (e.g., still talking about the possibility of both having three-year-olds now).
• Losing Her 'Soul Dog', Tate:
  • A pet’s death can be as profound a loss as any, deserving as much grief and remembrance.

  “I’ll never move on from Tate’s death. My grief will change, for sure... Getting over it, you can’t. He’s a part of me, and he’s no longer here.” (53:30–55:15)

• Validation from Community:
  • Publicly sharing her loss led to waves of shared experience and support, breaking isolation.
• Advice:
  • Don’t rush grief, let it unfold, and honor each kind of loss fully.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kate Cassidy:

  “I think keeping a consistent ... routine ... just any type of small thing. It just helps so much with your headspace.” (04:15)
  “I just want to see what the Happy Meal toy is... and the answer said four for four. That was Liam listening to me.” (08:04)

• Nicole Evan:

  “The power of free will ... is that we as human beings do have [it]. We have the freedom to choose how we're going to live, choose how we're going to think.” (19:25)
  “Grief is the receipt from the universe showing that you loved someone or something and loved them very deeply.” (23:12)

• Karan Johar:

  “That’s why there’s a full stop, because the next sentence has to begin.” (28:42)
  “Keep an open channel of communication with your parent because they may not always be correct…” (32:00)
  “…he wrote me an 11-page letter … It became my bible.” (34:54 – 35:39)

• Taylor Hill:

  “They just held my hand and were like, just sat there with me and let me cry. They didn't ask me questions... they listened when I was ready to talk.” (41:17–41:50)
  “I’ll never move on from Tate’s death. My grief will change, for sure... Getting over it, you can’t.” (54:50 – 55:15)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• How Holidays Amplify Grief – 01:42
• Kate Cassidy: The Story of Signs and Small Rituals – 02:57 to 14:16
• Nicole Evan: Grief as Proof of Love, Forgiveness, and Perspective – 16:46 to 27:29
• Karan Johar: Conversations, Closure, and Practical Legacy – 28:40 to 36:02
• Taylor Hill: Miscarriage, Silent Support, and Pet Loss – 38:18 to 55:15
• Jay’s Closing Reflections – 55:34

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Main Takeaways & Tools

• Trust your process: Follow your heart, and know grief has no fixed timeline or script.
• Value small rituals: Little acts and everyday routines matter.
• Look for meaning in signs and memories: These can offer comfort and connection.
• Stay open to support, but on your terms: Accept help, but don’t feel pressured to grieve publicly or move on.
• Forgiveness is a form of self-care: Not condoning, but choosing hope and release.
• Prioritize honest conversations: Don’t wait to say what matters; communication brings closure.
• Honor every loss: Whether a life, a dream, or a pet, all grief is valid and worthy of time and space.

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Final Message

Jay Shetty closes by reminding listeners that grief doesn’t disappear, but, like love, it carries on and changes shape. Especially during the holidays, allow yourself the grace to remember, honor, and feel every emotion. Grief is universal, but so is love.

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For further listening:

If this episode resonated, Jay suggests checking out his interview with Dr. Julie Smith on embracing difficult feelings and overcoming negative emotions.

Transcript

[Jay Shetty]

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[Kate Cassidy]

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[Jay Shetty]

Store near you how many of you find that the holidays bring up a mix of emotions? For many people, the holiday season can be a time of connection and celebration, but but it can also quietly amplify grief, memories, and the absence of someone we deeply love. When celebration is everywhere and absence seems louder, loss can feel more present. Grief is something every single one of us will face, yet most of us are never taught how to live it, especially during moments when closeness, tradition, and joy are emphasized. Research shows that nearly one in three adults struggle with prolonged grief on after the loss of a loved one. And during the holidays, that weight can feel even heavier. What's often misunderstood is that grief isn't about getting over someone. It's about learning how to carry that love forward in a new way. In this video, you'll hear stories of loss and resilience from guests I'm truly grateful to have spoken with on on purpose. Their experiences remind us that grief can feel isolating, but hearing how others live it can help us feel understood and less alone. During this season, the number one health.

[Podcast Announcer]

And Wellness podcast Jay Shetty.

[Karan Johar]

Jay Shetty.

[Taylor Hill]

The one, the only Jay Shetty.

[Jay Shetty]

When Kate Cassidy lost her boyfriend Liam Payne in a tragic accident, her entire world changed overnight. She shares that in the beginning, everything felt numb, like she was floating outside of herself. And what surprised her was that the healing didn't come from big moments, but from the small, everyday rituals. Listening to songs they loved, talking about him with friends, even noticing little signs that reminded her of Liam. Psychologists say that grief often comes in waves. Sometimes gentle, sometimes overwhelming. But over time, each wave teaches us how to carry the weight a little differently. Let's have a listen. I think so many people listening or watching, whether they've lost someone close to them or I think people struggle to know what to say, people struggle to know what to do themselves when they've lost someone. What, what worked for you?

[Kate Cassidy]

I think at the end of the day you need to listen and trust your heart because grief comes in so many waves, so many different emotions. You're gonna wake up, you're gonna feel numb, you're gonna wake up, you're gonna feel sad, you're gonna feel angry, you're going to feel one day you're gonna wake up and you're gonna laugh and you're gonna just think of good moments you had and then you're gonna find yourself just this laugh turning into this hysterical cry. And I think that grief is something that you never know what to expect and it hits everybody so differently. So I think the best, you know, some advice that I would give, just some general advice would be to always trust your gut. Some things for me might not work for other people. I think keeping a consistent of course schedule routine and I'm not saying waking up in the morning from 9am, having a strategic plan throughout the day and then not getting home until 8pm of course not. Your mind needs time to rest and think and heal. But even just if you take one activity per day, it could just be walking, baking, going to the gym, going to applies class, just any type of small thing. It just helps so much with your headspace. But I think for me, one thing that really has helped me so much and that makes me feel so full of light and love is seeing signs. And I see so many signs of Liam and I'm such a believer in signs. I believe in manifesting and I know that he's with me and I feel him all the time. And I remember at first when he passed away, I didn't feel him for I'd say the first five days. And I know that's not a long amount of time, but obviously five days when you're not with somebody, after being with them 24, seven, it feels like, you know, five years. So I remember getting kind of angry and just being, like, talking to Liam, just saying, why haven't you shown me any signs? And I remember one day, it was before I flew out to England, so I was still in our house in Florida. I sat on his. The floor of his closet, and I started crying hysterically. And I was so angry with him. I said, show me a sign. This is so unfair. Like, are you here with me? Show me a sign. And this is a stage of grief that also, I want people to know it's okay to be angry, and it's okay to cry, and it's okay to say things. It's okay. And I was crying, and I was just saying, I'm so disappointed. I love you so much, but I need you to show me a sign, because I don't feel you. And I remember I went back downstairs, and it's just. It was such a simple thing, but my friends asked me, do you want anything from McDonald's? And at this point, it was so hard for me to even hold down food. I was barely eating. And for me, me and liam, we loved McDonald's. It was something that we would probably get, like, twice a week, which I know is not the healthiest option. It was just a part of, like, just kind of our childlike things to do. And we would always get the Happy Meal toy. We always would get the Happy Meal toy. It was always also Liam's idea to do that. He was such a kid at heart, and he would always get the Happy Meals toy. And I said to my friends, you know what? Get me a kids meal. I'm not even hungry. I really don't want to eat, but I'll try to. I'll try to eat something, but I just want to see what the Happy Meal toy is. I really just. I want to see what it is. So they came back, they brought me the. The Happy Meal. And it came in this, like, because it was around Halloween, it came in this trick or treat bin instead of the cardboard McDonald's, like, Happy Mailbox. And I remember when they gave it to me, I was. I was annoyed because I was like, this is the Happy Meal toy. I thought I was gonna get, like, a little cute thing that maybe would have been a symbol of Liam or something that Liam would have liked or something, like, cute that could just make me feel a little lifted. I was just My head was everywhere. Just even thinking that I could get any sort of positivity and light from a Happy Meal kids meal toy. That was just where my headspace was. And I was so angry. I didn't get any type of toy. I just got a trick or treat bin that obviously, I'm not going trick or treating. So then I opened the. I opened the lid to try to eat some of the food, and I noticed there's this maze on the back of the lid. And it was kind of one of those mazes where it's like, count how many black cats, count how many ghosts. Count how many pumpkins you can find. And I. Obviously, I didn't try to even do the maze. Why would I? And on the back of it, it said the answers in small little letters. So you can, I guess, match it up to see if you won the puzzle. And our angel numbers have always been four. Any sequence of four, and the answers on the back of it were four, four, four. And that was immediately the first sign I got from Liam. And the number four symbolizes guidance and support from your angels. And this has been such a big part of our relationship. I mean, he had the number four initialed on his feet. I ended up getting it after he passed away. And I think that 4 was such a big part of our. Every single letter he's written me, he has ended it with, you're 444. It's just. It was always our thing. So the fact that I got these. This Happy Meal toy and the answer said four for four. That was Liam listening to me, and he was giving me a sign saying, I know I am here. I am here. You're not alone. Like I am here. And it made me feel so. Just my. I just lit up. I remember. And I still. I still kept the little map I have folded up, and it's in my bedside drawer.

[Jay Shetty]

And it sounds like you've seen so many other signs after that as well.

[Kate Cassidy]

Yeah, I have. And I see so many signs. And I came to la, obviously, to be here. I came to la, and I've never been to LA with. Without Liam before. I've only been with Liam. We've went a handful of times together, and we've created so many memories here. And when I landed in la, I felt like part of me was missing. I just. Even getting on the plane, just sitting alone, you know, not next to Liam, just felt so wrong. And I just still, you know, everything that I do, I'm missing Liam. I'm thinking of Liam, but being in this city that I love, and I have this connection with la. I love it so much. Without the person that I love who brought me here and showed me around LA and introduced me to this wonderful city, it just felt so empty. And I think on my second or third night here, me and my friend went to a basketball game. And we were on our way to the basketball game. We were in an Uber. And everywhere, we were just seeing fours everywhere on license plates. We were seeing it on billboards, phone numbers, like on billboard everywhere. Just the number four. And then we get into the basketball game, we go into a suite, and every suite's like, I'm assuming, decorated differently. That's normally how it is. It has, like, a different type of interior design, especially at this arena. And we walk in and the wallpaper is the exact same wallpaper as me and Liam's bathroom wallpaper in England. And it's so unique. I've never seen a wallpaper like this before. It's lion heads with this floral design. It's something that's not just a color or not this sort of design that you would see shopping for, you know, a painting at TJ Maxx. It's just this design that I've never seen before. Moving into this house in London with Liam and the fact that that was in the suite, I immediately. That's the first thing. I walked into the suite and I just stopped. I turned to my friend and I said, this is the same wallpaper that me and Liam had in our bathroom in London. And then we leave the basketball game. At this point, it's kind of late, and we just want to get some food in us. So we go to this quick little restaurant for a bite to eat. We were the only ones in the restaurant. Cause I think their kitchen was about to close within five minutes. We walk into the restaurant and the song that's playing as we're walking in is Night Changes by One Direction. And the first place my eyes go to is the TV screen behind the booths. And it was Liam on the screen. They were playing the music video. And it was just three sides, three big signs in a row. Being here in la, and I just knew Liam was with me that night. And Liam was there at that basketball game with us. Liam was there that night eating tacos with us. He was there with us. And seeing those signs make me feel so much more connected and close to him and that I know he's here and he's listening to me and he's. He's far, but he's not too far.

[Jay Shetty]

Yeah. I had the pleasure of interviewing Laura Lynn Jackson, who wrote the book Signs.

[Kate Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Jay Shetty]

And I love that book. For anyone who loves learning about signs, loves knowing about signs, that that book is speaking so closely to. I don't know if you've ever seen it or ever met Laure Lynn, but she speaks so beautifully about how all of us have different. Whether it's numbers, whether it's emblems, symbols, things that we can see anywhere that points to us that we're moving in the right direction. And yeah, me and my team have had some pretty crazy experiences when we were preparing for that interview and met her and everything else as well. And so thank you for sharing those because it's amazing to see how Liam so alive in your life and so. So present in your life. And I can imagine that's hard too. I'm curious to know what's been the hardest part of the last few months for you. Because as much as it's wonderful to see Liam being present in all these places, I'm sure it's hard as well.

[Kate Cassidy]

I think the hardest thing that this has of course, brought me is this loneliness feeling. And you go from being with somebody 247 to knowing and facing the reality that you're never gonna see this person again in this life. And that for me, is something that I still just cannot fully process in my mind. And I think that is always in the back of my mind. I think going places to. Everything reminds me of Liam. I could be having a specific coffee flavor from Starbucks and I'm just thinking, oh, Liam, love this coffee I bring. You know, I bring up Liam in almost every conversation I have because everything reminds me of him. And at the end of the day, I'm thinking about him every second of every single day. I could be having a full conversation, full blown conversation with somebody about something completely off topic, something just completely not involving me, involving Liam. And always in the back of my head, I'm just thinking, liam, Liam, Liam. And then even some of the things that I don't connect with with Liam, things that we haven't done, memories that we haven't made yet, or moments that we haven't shared together remind me of him because I'll think to myself, liam would have loved this, or I wish Liam able to experience this, or I wish we were able to try this together. So everything reminds me of him in one way or another.

[Jay Shetty]

You know, I think we often think of grief as a. Almost as if we're waiting to wake up one day and we don't feel what we felt anymore. And that's for anyone who's tried to grieve knows that's not true, and it doesn't happen like that. Kate's story teaches us a key lesson that grief isn't linear. There isn't a straight line from heartbreak to healing. Instead, it's a process of learning to coexist with absence and realizing that the love you shared doesn't vanish with loss. It changes form and it stays with you.

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[Jay Shetty]

Our next guest, Nicole Evan, discusses the tragic loss of her mother. After she was fatally shot in her own home, Nicole was faced with a choice. She could let anger and bitterness consume her, or she could lean into faith, forgiveness and gratitude for the life her mother lived. Research shows that people who approach grief with forgiveness and gratitude often report greater emotional resilience and improve mental health over time. But forgiveness doesn't mean excusing what happened or ignoring it. For Nicole, it was about choosing not to let pain define her life. I'm reading from your book, if you don't mind, if that's okay. So this is page 53 for those who are reading along with us in think you'll be happy. And you say, a few days after my mother died, Pharrell Williams called. He's like a brother to me. He's family. And he says, we're gonna celebrate your mom. He said, we're gonna celebrate her legacy. She's a big deal, and we're not going to let anyone forget her. She created a life worth talking about. Do you realize that hundreds of thousands of babies were born around the world the day she passed over? There are 140 million a year all around the world. Life is always continuing, Nicole, and you must continue her life by living yours to the fullest. And he concluded, God is still the greatest. And you said that Pharrell says this all the time, through good or bad times. And he's right. God is still the greatest. What I find really unique about your journey, Nicole, as well, is that you are able to keep and strengthen your faith in your own spirituality, in the way you practice it at a time when it's very natural. And I would never judge anyone if it would actually veer their way right.

[Nicole Evan]

And just say no.

[Jay Shetty]

No, exactly. Yeah. What do you mean?

[Nicole Evan]

What do you mean?

[Jay Shetty]

Yeah, what do you mean? What are you talking about?

[Nicole Evan]

I've been so good, and I've had much faith, and how can this happen? You know? And as I say in the book, it's like, why not us? It tragedies and trials and everything. It happens to, you know, as it says in scripture, you know, it rains on the just and it rains on the unjust. It's. Everyone kind of gets hammered. But it goes to the power of choice for me. And the reason that I grew stronger in my faith, as opposed to leaving it, is because I really do believe that the universe has kind of laid it all out. Life has laid it out. Various scripture, you know, your Buddhist script, Everything is laid it out. Which says, here it is. You're on this earth. And it kind of, here's how you play this game. But these things, we're not going to lie. These things will show up. But the power of free will, which my mom always reminded me about, is that, you know, listen, we as human beings do have free will. We have the freedom to choose how we're going to live, choose how we're going to think, as opposed to any other animal. You know, they don't have the power of imagination and choice. We do. So to blame the creator for the choices that people make is not something that I wanted to subscribe to. I was like, I'm not even going there. People make choices all the time. I see it every day. We all do. People who've had the worst childhoods make great choices, have great lives. I've seen people who I grew up with in a very affluent neighborhood make the worse choices, and it had nothing to do with their environment. It was their choice. So I wanted to stay. My faith, for me, really was believing in something that is so much bigger and greater than me. That, you know, swing. You know, the stars come out at night. I'm not in control of that. The earth is spinning. That's not my power. You know, the birds wake up every morning. The sun is up, the sun goes down. That's a power. That is. Yes, I'm a part of that, and I'm connected to it. But I did. I'm not the creator. And so I just decided to lean in more with that power and just say, okay, I accept this. I don't understand it. I may never understand it, but I still do love life, and I still do believe in life and the goodness of people and the goodness of life. And I don't want to get bitter. That was my main Jay. I was so afraid of becoming a bitter person, and I could feel the root. I could feel it starting. And I was like, no, no, no, no. I got to get rid of this. And that's where I just went into the forgiveness of not condoning the behavior, not saying, oh, it's okay that this happened, or making an excuse. Forgiveness for me was. I am casting this burden, right? Were these burdens of anger and shame and doubt and disappointment and frustration and fury? Cause I was furious, and I thought, but if I hold on to these feelings, I'm gonna sink myself, and I'm not giving anyone the power to take me out. I'm not doing that. So I'm gonna stand in my faith. I'm gonna believe in what I believe in, and I'm gonna believe in life. And I am gonna. I choose to believe. I. That things will get better. I don't know when, and I don't know how. I didn't care, but I knew that they would. And I believe, and I'm a big believer in tomorrow. I love tomorrow. I do. I really do. I'm always thinking, okay, because if I don't get it right, I'm like, oh, there's always tomorrow. And it keeps me hopeful. Tomorrow keeps me hopeful. I don't try to stay out of the present, but I do look forward. You know, my mom always used to say, you have to have something to look forward to, because otherwise, if you don't train your mind to. And I'd say, well, I have nothing coming up that I'm looking forward to. And she used to say, make it up. Make it up. Pretend you have some parting. Pretend you have some. Whatever it is. That's something that's going to make your heart smile because we can all fall into despair very quickly.

[Jay Shetty]

I love that. That just brought a massive smile to my face. It's so beautiful how someone's energy and spirit can be so big that it can truly live on and. And truly, truly be felt and shared. It's. Yeah. There's this beautiful line that you share from your friend Penny who says, grief is the receipt from the universe showing that you loved someone or something and loved them very deeply.

[Nicole Evan]

Isn't that the best. When she reminded me of that, I said, okay, wait, say it again. I have to write this down. Say it again. That is so good. But she said, baby, that's what it is. It's a receipt. And it could be a mother, a father, a sister, a brother, a dog, cat, whatever. Something that you love that is no longer there, that has changed form, even if it's the most peaceful transition, the grief is proof that you loved. You know, the grief is most of the time. And there's a lot of grief also where there's regrets and all that. I understand that I. And I respect all forms of grief, but it is. It's a receipt.

[Jay Shetty]

Yeah. A receipt that you loved and you were loved.

[Nicole Evan]

And I was loved.

[Jay Shetty]

Yeah. Deeply. Deeply. This one line in the book, you really. I just felt it was perspective shifting in a way that. Oh, I just. I just feel like that statement, just like, you know, you just embodied and captured everything. And you said that even though your mother's death was shocking, her life was beautiful. So imagine even though the end was so terrible, her life was beautiful. And that's what you're celebrating. That's what you're putting emphasis and focus and your light on. And I find that's very difficult because when we lose someone, it's so easy and natural again and normal. And that's when it's normal for us to obsess over how we lost someone and how we left them, which is the shortest amount of time we actually experience the most, mostly. But we have all of this time. But the brain and our memory and our mind is so good at just fixating on the end.

[Nicole Evan]

The end. And not the life.

[Kate Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Nicole Evan]

And not the life. And I had to get to the and so I used to say, but, but, but. And then I realized, wait, I can have both. This is shocking and terrible and hurtful, and I'm going to celebrate her life, and I'm going to think of the good times, and I'm going to try and think of all the great memories that'll bring a smile to my face. So it was no longer a but. And once I changed but to. And I didn't have to choose which one, I was going to do both and move through life with the shock and the trauma and the stress and the beauty of her life, the beauty of how she lived, the energy of what she gave. So I was moving with all energies, and it was only until I shifted, because I was definitely in the but this happened. So I don't know how I could ever smile again. But this happened, and it was so tragic. And then as soon as I said this happened and it's tragic, and I'm gonna think positively. I'm gonna think constructively. You know, my dad always used to say to me, girl, keep your mind right. Keep your, crucify your mind every day. You got to keep your mind right. And so that really helped me, you know, and that my friend TD Jakes had called me, and he said, I understand you're angry. Of course it's normal to be angry and all the things you're feeling. But I have a question for you. Do you want your focus to be on her last five minutes, or are you going to focus on the 81 years that she lived? And it's your choice, and you have to choose every day. Which one are you going to focus on? You're going to give him five minutes? The five minutes and the trauma, or are you going to focus on the 81 years? And I remember through all my tears, 81 years.

[Jay Shetty]

81 years.

[Nicole Evan]

And it was. But it was beautiful because he helped me shift, and I had to go to that every day. It wasn't like he said it one day and then. But every day and every time it was very challenging for me, Jay. And every time I did want to quit. And there were days where I didn't stop all the time, but sometimes you have to push pause in life. And there were days where I would lay in the bed and just lay there and be still and think or not think and just lay there. And I. But I still decided to focus on her 81 years and to focus on what I loved about her and to focus on her contributions to life. And society and other people and how.

[Jay Shetty]

She made people feel so powerful. That shift for me was, you know, I was like that. I can. That's something I'd like to remind myself every day with the people that I've lost like that. That really felt like a real gift, that, that gem of advice and insight. Nicole teaches us that grief is the proof that you love deeply. And that forgiveness isn't about denying what happened. It's about refusing to let tragedy harden your heart. It's about finding a way to keep love at the center of your healing and choosing to cherish the positive. When our next guest, Karan Johar, learned that his father was diagnosed with cancer, he suddenly realized how much had been left unsaid between them. They began having conversations about life, death and love, connections they had never dared to have before. So many people who lose a loved one report wishing for just one more conversation, one more beat to tell them something important before it's too late. And while we can't always control when goodbyes come, Curran's story is a reminder of the healing that comes from honesty and why we shouldn't wait to say what matters most.

[Karan Johar]

Can your life stop?

[Jay Shetty]

No.

[Karan Johar]

You have to move on. Nothing is worse than losing a loved one. But you eventually have to come to terms with the fact that it's happened. That's why there's a full stop, because the next sentence has to begin. So it's only can start when that full stop is registered and then you move on. I look at life like that. Whatever goes wrong is going to go wrong. Nothing is going to be constantly happy, nothing is going to be constantly sad. It's the way you have to kind of just understand life. And maybe because as a child I had such a rough patch, I think I kind of armored myself for me to, you know, feel the way I do today about anything.

[Jay Shetty]

Who have you lost at? That full stop was hard to my father.

[Karan Johar]

He passed away much earlier than I ever imagined. When he was in his early 70s and very healthy on his feet, active man, no vices. He just one day had a fourth stage tumor in his esophagus, which we found out much later when it was in its fourth stage and that went into full blown cancer. And he passed from the time of the diagnosis to the point of him passing away was 10 months. I'm a realist. I'm not an optimist or a pessimist. I'm a realist. So I went to the oncologist in and we were surprisingly filming Kalhona Ho. Which is about a man dying. And it is about a man dying. We were in New York, and I went to my oncologist and said, look, my father, you know, and, like, tell me. Give me the hard fact. And he said, look, it doesn't look good. And I was, okay, now I know this. Then I know it doesn't look good. And we'll do everything in our capacity medically to kind of, you know. But I said, I don't want to see him in pain. And actually, oddly, the five days that he had a tough time were the five days of his chemotherapy. Those were the tough days, the subsequent days to the chemotherapy. But actually, those 10 other months besides those five days gave me so much time that I could spend with him that I had conversations I never thought I would. We discussed my childhood. We discussed his early years. We discussed his achievements, his failures, his regrets, his joys. I have complete closure with my relationship with my father because I have no unanswered questions. Because in those 10 months, I wasn't running around like a headless chicken trying to keep him alive. I had accepted that he may go. And in those months, I lived in the moment with him. And I was able to have all those conversations that I would have loved to have had with him earlier, but I didn't. But those 10 months gave me that. And I even told my mom, I was like, talk to him. Speak to him. But she was finding very tough to accept the situation, so she couldn't. And that's why she still doesn't have closure. 20 years have passed since he passed away, and she still has not been able to deal with his passing away. And she's 82 years old today. Whereas I actually have complete closure because I had every conversation I could have dreamt of having with a parent. I did. And that's why I always tell people, like, communicate today because they may not be a tomorrow. Tell them today anything. You have a problem, you have resentment issues, you have parental trauma. You gotta speak today. Because today communication is the resolve, is the aid you're looking for, is the solution to every problem. We don't talk specifically. I think in our parenting structure in India, we have respect. And respect sometimes equals distance, you know, and that respect should not give you distance in a relationship. Respect should also be a close component of love. It should actually give you the ability to communicate to your parent. Just because you respect your father and mother doesn't mean you can't say what you want. Parents are not always correct. It's not that they are saying the right thing to you all the time. They are carrying the baggage of their parents and they put that baggage onto you and you may not need it or you shouldn't have it and you have to kind of have an open line of channel and you can still be respectful, never not be respectful because that's something that our tradition teaches us, our culture teaches us. But please, I always tell people keep an open channel of communication with your parent because they may not always be correct, they may not always be right. They may not be right. Advice or value system may not be good for you and you have to sometimes question it.

[Jay Shetty]

Yeah, for sure. Was there a specific question you asked or a conversation you remember fondly from that time as you said you had every conversation you asked, every question. Is there one that stands out?

[Karan Johar]

I asked him whether he has any regrets, you know and he spoke to me widely about like his relationship with his parents and his siblings and you know, what he thought he did wrong as even career wise and how he thought he was taken for a ride but he didn't act on it at the right time. He lost a lot of money because some of his indiscretions and you know he spoke about that openly. He also spoke about the fact that like sometimes he has things he wants to tell my mom but he doesn't say it because he doesn't want to hurt or upset her. And he says I wish I had. Then he tells me, he told me like, you know, I wish I would have spent more time with you. You would have been. I wish I had incorporated sport in your life. It would have given you a sense of much more. Like because I believe sport is not just for physical health, it also gives you, it trains your mind very differently. And he said I didn't spend enough active time which was. I was so busy working. And so he told me a lot about his regrets and his thoughts at that time and I think it really helped him as well. I think it kind of gave him so much closure and I think those conversations are very dear to me. And then he wrote an 11 page letter to me which I didn't know existed was given to me post him passing away where he wrote all the business or the accounts and it was a technical letter of everything about like this is the account, these are the, these are my like the businesses that we've. This, you don't owe money to anyone. It's all done. This is where the bank account etc detail mutual deposits funds like whatever the investments were at that time. He gave Me, like an handwritten, Handwritten. It was written by him in hand. And then he wrote people you can trust, people you can't trust, things you should never do. Like, he just. It became my bible and I literally, I think 90% of it is what I followed. And he wrote me 11 page letter.

[Jay Shetty]

And I said, that's unbelievable. Had he ever written you a letter before?

[Karan Johar]

Never. He knew he was going, so he wrote me that. And it wasn't an emotional letter. It was a practical, thoughtful, business minded, future based letter. It was all about me, how to manage the funds, what we have, what we don't have, who owes him money. And he says, but never ask them till they come to you because you know, it was all given in good faith. And he said, we don't owe anyone anything. So if anyone comes and asks, it's not true. And he gave me every single detail that me, who was not business minded, had zero business acumen, needed that 11 pager that I followed as my bible to kind of forge forward at that time.

[Jay Shetty]

Wow, what a beautiful gift. To leave someone that's so powerful. I've never heard that before. I've never heard someone leaving their child a practical, thoughtful, I mean, the idea of who to trust and who not to trust.

[Karan Johar]

He never wrote anything that I love you, I will always. And none of that that was said already. It was none of that. It was not a Hallmark letter, you know, it was a business letter.

[Jay Shetty]

That's unbelievable. Thank you for sharing that. Karin's reflections remind us that grief isn't just about mourning what we lose. It's also about cherishing the moments we still have. The best time to say what you feel is always now. Don't wait until tomorrow to express what matters today.

[Sophie Cunningham]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly a medicine company.

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[Jay Shetty]

Grief isn't only about who we lose, but also what we lose. A pet, a pregnancy, a future. For Taylor Hill, it came in many forms. The heartbreak of miscarriage and the loss of her beloved dog, Tate. These kinds of losses are often minimized or dismissed. Even though between 10 and 20% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, many women report that their grief is not validated or supported by others. Taylor speaks candidly about how isolating these losses can feel, but also about the importance of allowing yourself to mourn them fully, no matter what anyone else says. Let's take a look. I was saying to you that I've had multiple friends in the last two to three years who've all experienced a miscarriage. And I talk to them and I'll hear from them. And I see so much just stress, overwhelm, pressure, self degradation, like, you know, just negative self talk. Like there's, it's, it's, it's one of the hardest things to go through. Even if everyone goes through it, as you say, not everyone, but so many people go through it, it doesn't make it any easier. And often actually, like you said, it makes you so lonely that you don't want to talk to anyone about it.

[Kate Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Jay Shetty]

And it's, it's not comforting to know other people have gone through it. And I wonder in that lonely phase, like, what was it that did help you? And even when your friend went through it, what allowed you to be there for each other in a way that was comforting and helpful rather than felt uncomfortable and unhealthy?

[Taylor Hill]

I needed to be alone. I needed to, like, I needed to feel it. I needed to sit in it. I didn't want to talk about it because I didn't want. People want to be there for you, and that's really special and that's really helpful. But I didn't want people to be there for me yet. I wasn't ready for people to be like, oh, I'm so sorry, or you know, because people don't know what to say sometimes when it comes to grief or loss, sometimes I don't know what to say either. I have no idea on how to react to some things. Still, having experienced my own version of grief. How do you be there for somebody? It's a difficult thing. I mean, I didn't know how I needed, why I didn't know what I needed from people. I didn't want to talk about it. I wanted to be alone. I didn't want anyone to know because I didn't want people to talk to me about it or say things to me because I just wasn't ready to hear it yet. And the way that I think.

[Nicole Evan]

I.

[Taylor Hill]

Told people that were really, really close to me, really. My husband obviously knew because it happened to him too. And my two best friends knew. And the way that I feel like they were there for me because they didn't know what to say. They didn't say anything. They were there for me physically. They held me, they let me cry. I just sat there and I cried and said nothing. And they just held my hand and were like. Just sat there with me and like, let me cry. They didn't ask me questions. They didn't ask me how I felt. They didn't ask. They didn't say anything to me. Like, they didn't say, everything happens for a reason. Don't worry, like you'll feel one day. They didn't go into that, I think, because they know me so well. They probably knew that I didn't want to hear that yet. They just were there and they listened to when I was ready to talk. And then because I wasn't ready, they just let me emote and they just let me cry and they cried. And I could tell because I was hurt. They were hurt. You know, my. My. When I finally got to my husband and we were together, he just held me. We both cried and he just held me. And, you know, I held him too, because I think that's another thing, is another layer on top of it is even though it physically happened to me and emotionally was something that I experienced, it was an individual experience to myself. Emotionally, it's something that. It's a loss that happened to him as well. He Also thought potentially he would be having a child. So we were both grieving something. We were both grieving the loss of this. We were both feeling this weird sense of relief at the same time and then immediately guilty because we felt relief, and then immediately anger because we felt guilt. And you know what I mean? It's just, it's relentless, these emotions. When it's fresh, you know, you feel literally every single one that's on the rainbow of all the colors. We felt, we felt all of them. And I think when it's, when it was the very beginning, I think for me it was just holding people holding me, you know, being in, just being in the space with me. They didn't have to say anything if they didn't know what to say, you know. And when we did sort of start talking about it, I, we first started saying, this sucks, I can't believe this is happening. You know, it was. If I was feeling angry, then they would be angry with me. If I was, if I was sad, then they were sad with me. So it was amazing. They were amazing at being there for me in those ways. And you know, I think it is difficult to know what to say and how to be there for someone, but I think following them and how they're reacting is also really good. Like taking the cue from how they're responding is a good way to respond back to someone. And you know, checking in, you know, my, my friends that knew checked in with me, how are you feeling today? You know, and then if I didn't want to talk about, they were like, okay, let me know when you are ready. You know, yeah, we're here. So just, you know, they were checking in, you know, making sure. And then, you know, my, my best friend, she, who, she experienced this as well. She continues to check in with me. You know, this is three years later and we still talk about it. Oh my gosh, like, can you believe it? You would have a three year old. I'm like, I know. And it's just we, we get to have these moments together of we would both have a three year old right now. That's. And we, we think about that and we deal with that and we grieve them. We grieve the loss of that potential and that direction in life. You know, that thread that didn't happen in this path. So female friendships are incredible and they're beautiful. And I think it's really important for women to have women in their life that they can, they can go to and they can talk to you about these things. Because we can relate to each other in other ways that I think, you know, I couldn't get from my husband. And being able to go to her was so special and really helpful. So I just. I think, also have patience with yourself, and if you know someone who's going through that, have patience with them, because it's a roller coaster. And, you know, she was my friend. She was going through this too, and I was feeling emotions, and I was feeling heartbroken because. I know, because she was heartbroken. So I was feeling emotions as well. And I just have to be patient because the.

[Nicole Evan]

It.

[Taylor Hill]

It's happening to her. So at her pace, at her time, when she's ready, when she wants to hear, when she wants to talk about it, we can. And we both kind of just. We both shared that understanding with each other.

[Jay Shetty]

Let's talk about the grief of losing.

[Karan Johar]

A.

[Jay Shetty]

Friend, because that's really what this is, a really dear friend. Walk me through those nine years and the amazing relationship you built with Tate.

[Taylor Hill]

Yeah, Tate. Oh, my angel. I got Tate when I was 18, so it was really kind of in the mix of all this, my life changing. I booked the Victoria's Secret fashion show not very long after Tate came into my life, and we walked through life together for nine years, and he was my best friend. And. Oh, gosh, it's so hard to put it into words because it's. It's so. It's such a unique thing to have a deep relationship with an animal. And it sounds. I hope I don't sound crazy. Maybe I'm gonna sound a little crazy, but, like, I just feel like the love that, you know, dogs and animals in general have for humans is so unconditional, you know, and they have no judgment. They don't want anything from you, but your love back. And it's so pure and it's so innocent. It's almost childlike in a way. You know, when I. I can only imagine, you know, when you hold a newborn baby for the first time, that immediate connection that you feel to this thing that can't even talk yet and is just a part of you, it's. It's really special to have such a deep connection to something that literally wants nothing from you, except for also the, like, unconditional love. So to have Tate come into my life at that time was so special, just because so much was changing. You know, I was growing up. I was, you know, becoming a young woman, from a girl to a woman, and he was there for that. And, you know, I was traveling all the time. And I was away from family, and I just had this little, tiny, innocent soul with me that just always looked at me like, you're the best, and I love you. And Tate taught me so much. I mean, he taught me, you know, responsibility, caring for something other than myself, you know, taking care of him, you know, pouring love into him and making sure that he was good and, you know, even well behaved and training him and doing all those things is showing him an act of love and making sure that he's a confident, comfortable dog he could be in any scenario. And he was the best boy. And I think he also kind of knew that I was just kind of out there winging it a bit. And he was like, oh, God, this girl. This girl has no idea what she's doing, so I'm going to have to be a good boy now. And he just. I really sometimes feel like he did teach himself how to just be. Be everywhere with me all the time. And I think that he was meant for me, and he was meant to be in my life, and I think that we were sort of made to. For each other, and we belonged to each other. And, you know, he was. He was so. It sounds crazy to say this about a dog, but he was so emotional. Like, his eyes were so human. He could look at me, and I knew what he was saying or what he was thinking or I felt that he could feel what I was thinking or what I was feeling. And I definitely think that he also taught me a lot about, you know, emotion and, you know, being, you know, what's that saying, you know, be the person your dog thinks you are. They think you're great. You know, they're like, I love you no matter what. Yes, Mom, Yes. So that's the energy they give you, right, is like, oh, you're the best. And it's just like, am I the best? But to have something, you know, this little creature just look at you and think you're the best, it kind of makes you want to be the best, right? You know, constantly trying to grow and be better and change and, you know, nobody's perfect, and no one will ever be perfect. And we're always learning, and we're always growing and we're always changing. But having something to do that for and having some. Someone to do that with is really. It's different. You know, like, it's more intentional. Right? So trying to be better because Tate thinks I'm the best is. It's a different motivation. So he definitely was there for me through, you know, so much of my life, and so much of my life changing, I think, from, you know, 18 to 27 are pretty formative years. I don't. I'm not a doctor, but I. Someone told me once that your brain stops developing at 25 or something. So, you know, he was there. Oh, sorry. I hit the mic. I talk with my hands. He was there. He was there from when I had an undeveloped brain to a developed brain. You know, he kind of just saw me through, and he was. He was just the best. I mean, the love of my life. I mean, my soulmate, really, because he just knew, you know, And I've never had a connection with any. Anyone like that that I've had with Tate. So I'm just. I'm really grateful that he was in my life. He's the inspiration behind me even wanting to start a pet company just because I love him so much. And I know other people have felt that before, people who've had, you know, what I like to call a soul dog. They know what I'm talking about. You know, they know that feeling. And when I shared that I lost Tate, people who, you know, been on my journey with me and been maybe following me for a bit know the day I got him and maybe saw. Saw him on my Instagram all the time. I mean, he was probably in every single picture on my Instagram for nine years. So I feel like people felt like they knew him. And when I said when I, you know, shared that he was sick, and then when I ultimately shared that he had passed, the overwhelming amount of support and, you know, messages that I got, and also shared experiences that I received from. I lost my soul dog 10 years ago, and I still think about them every single day. It made me feel. It made me feel less alone and less maybe kind of strange for feeling this way about a dog, because I, you know, you get both. You get. I got amazing, overwhelming comments that were just overwhelmingly positive. I mean, just. I know what you're going through. I went through this. Just remember, he's always with you. I got messages like that that touched me so deeply and positively, and I just felt so grateful that I got those messages. But then, of course, you get the flip side where people don't understand. They're like, oh, it's a dog. What's the big deal? Oh, it's a dog. Move on. I'll never move on from Tate's death. My grief will change, for sure. My perspective of his death will change, and it has even since I lost him. You know, I. It's it's devastating, and it's heartbreaking. And, you know, to anyone who's felt that, I know that feels like. And don't let anybody rush you. You know, some people don't understand that. It's just because this is a dog and, you know, not a person, it doesn't mean that they don't deserve the same amount of time and space and energy you would give to grieving anything else. So I would just say, you know, take your time, and you're not alone. And it's. It's not a fun thing to go through at all. So. I think I'll always miss Tate. You know, I don't see how I can't, you know, and I think to say to get over something is such a harsh way of saying it, because I'll probably never get over it. I'll never really get over losing Tate. I can heal from it and I can find, you know, peace with it, but those are two completely different things. Getting over it, you can't. How do you get over that? You know, it does. It's not something that. It's not a object, in my way. It's. He's a part of me, and he's no longer here. So, yeah, I definitely think losing a pet is. Is tough. And, you know, losing one that you have such a deep, strong connection with, that's been with you for so many things with no expectation from you other than just they want to be there with you, is. That's a tough loss and a tough thing to. To work through. So thank you for sharing that.

[Jay Shetty]

What today shows us is that grief doesn't end. It evolves. And during the holidays, that evolution can become more visible. The people we love continue to live on in the memories. We return to the traditions we carry forward and the quiet ways they still guide us. Kate showed us that healing often happens in the smallest moments. Nicole reminded us that forgiveness can be a form of freedom. Curran shared why the most important words should never wait. And Taylor affirmed that every kind of loss deserves to be honored, even when the world expects us to be. Okay, if this season feels heavy for you, there's nothing wrong with you. Grief is universal, and so is love. And it's love that allows us to keep going, to keep remembering, and that carries us forward, even when they're no longer here. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr. Julie Smith on unblocking negative emotions and how to embrace difficult feelings.

[Kate Cassidy]

You've just got to be motivated every.

[Taylor Hill]

Day, and if you're not then what are you doing? And actually, humans don't work that way.

[Kate Cassidy]

Motivation. You have to treat it like any other emotion. Some days it will be there, some days it won't.

[Sophie Cunningham]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or osa, in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snore loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company at cvs.

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