Dr. Jordan B. Peterson (32:09)
That's a good observation. I mean, one of the things I've realized and one of the themes that is developed in this new book is the notion that. So when you're introduced to someone, you'll tell them a story about who you are. So you describe your identity. A story is a description of that implicit identity that you described. So you see the world Through a structure of identity. That doesn't mean you know what that is. As you pointed out, when you tell a story about yourself, what you're trying to do is to approximate. You're trying to encapsulate that implicit identity into something that's communicable and then something that also becomes explicitly understandable to you. This is partly what dreams do. So in the dream, your implicit identity reveals itself, but not entirely coherently and not entirely verbally. If you take a dream and you interpret it, if you have the good fortune to be able to manage that and maybe some help, you're moving the information that's part of your implicit identity upward into something that's more explicitly recognized. Like what you'd hope is that what you're actually pursuing pre, consciously or unconsciously is mapped very well by your self description. Because then you're a person that has a certain degree of integrity. Who you think you are and who you are are the same thing. That's an optimal situation. That's the pursuit of something like integrity, say in moral development, maybe in psychotherapy, in a relationship that's positive and productive. It's all moving towards that end. And it's very useful to understand that what stories do is stories are the manner in which implicit identity makes itself explicit. And so the biblical stories, for example, are part of the process, the historical process by which the developing morality of individuals, as they become more complexly civilized, reveals itself to those cultures and to the participants. It's a dynamic process, and it's much better to understand the stories that way. You know, the atheist types tend to parody belief in God, say as belief in something like the great genie in the sky, the sky daddy, I think the benevolent sky daddy, which is the terminology that people like Richard Dawkins use. But that's a very. It's a dismissive parody of the phenomena. It's not a reasonable approach because the realm of religious conceptualization is far more sophisticated than that parody would indicate. Like, I mean, let's take the idea that the divine reveals itself as the call of adventure. Well, this is a serious idea to contend with. So what it implies is that there's a spirit, so to speak, a process, a dynamic that reveals itself within us, that captures what interests us and compels us forward in consequence, and that following that. So when God comes to Abraham, he makes Abraham an offer, like a very explicit offer. This is the covenant of Yahweh. And it's a very interesting offer. And I read it from a psychological perspective, even from an Evolutionary biological perspective. God. This is how God is defined by the way. So God makes Abraham an offer. So Abraham comes from rich parents and there's no reason for him to do anything from the purely material perspective. Everything that he could want is already at hand. And it actually takes Abraham 70 years to get moving, right, because he's an old man by modern standards. When the voice of adventure comes to him and it says something very, very specific to him, it's not vague at all. It says you need to leave the comforts of your land and home and you need to voyage out into the great unknown. So it's like a quest story, like the Hobbit say, away you go from comfort. Well then the first question you might ask if you had that impulse is, well, why I have everything that I would need, assuming life is based on that kind of need right at hand. So what's the benefit to me of moving beyond the zone of infantile dependence and comfort? That's a question everybody faces always, especially if they're provided for adequately or even excellently by their parents. What should impel you out into the world and why bother? Well, God tells Abraham something very specific. He says, if you abide by the voice of adventure, you'll be a blessing to yourself. Okay, that's a good deal. Because it's very frequently the case that people's people don't have an existence that's a blessing to them. They suffer a lot, they're anxious, they're grief stricken, they're resentful, they're angry, they're self contemptuous, they're vicious. There's all sorts of ways that their existence is not a blessing to them. So the offer that the voice of God as adventure makes to Abraham is that if you follow this pathway of adventure, your life will actually you'll start to experience your life as a blessing. So that's a good deal. Just that alone, if that was true, that might be good enough to motivate you, right, to think that's okay. That's the pathway forward to self acceptance, let's say, or something like a sophisticated self esteem. But that's not the whole offer. The second offer is you'll become known among your peers and validly. And that's very interesting because you know, you can think about people as corrupt power seekers who are clamoring for status or you can be less cynical and you could say, well, we're wired such that we appreciate due consideration for our genuine efforts. Okay, so if my reputation is established on valid basis, that means that I'M appreciated by the people around me. But that there's a valid basis for that. That's the offer that's part two. So you're a blessing to yourself in a manner that enhances your reputation and you deserve it. That's a good deal. If you could have that. Then there's another offer which is you'll get those two things plus you'll establish something of lasting significance. Because Abraham is the father of nations, like he's the founder of a dynasty. So not only will you have those first two things, but it'll propagate across time. It's often the case when people are looking for something meaningful that they think, well, I'd like to do something of lasting value, right? There seems to be something intrinsically motivating about that. And so you think, well, that's a good deal. And then the fourth thing is you'll do it in a way that'll be of benefit to everyone else. So there's nothing selfish or narcissistic about it. So you think about what that means. It implies that the instinct of adventure that compels you beyond your zone of comfort is allied psychologically and socially. So that if you follow it, you'll be a blessing to yourself. You'll have a reputation that's esteemed and deserved. You'll conduct yourself so that you produce things of lasting value and it will be good for everyone else. Well, that's an excellent deal. And it speaks of a harmony between the advanced psychological motivation that pulls you forward and your emotional states, plus productivity and integration into the broader social community. Well, I think that's right. I can't see how it can be otherwise. Because the counter hypothesis would be the force that motivates you forward acts at cross purposes to say, sociological stability. And I can't see how we could be genuinely social animals, productively, socially animals, which we are. And there be some intrinsic conflict between the force that moves us forward and the force that brings people together. Right. Why not assume that they exist together in a kind of harmony? I mean, we're adapted to the social world anyways. That's one of the avenues that I had explored in we who Wrestle with God. And there's more in the Abrahamic story that's quite remarkable too, because the other thing that Abraham decides to do, this is so cool when you understand it, is that. So imagine you know this in your own life, you move towards a new destination and that requires a kind of growth. So you might ask, well, what does that growth consist of? And in the Abrahamic story, it consists of sacrifice. So every time Abraham makes a transformation in identity, he makes a sacrifice. Well, that is what happens when you make a transformation of identity, because as you grow and mature, you have to shed those traits, people, even situations, material possessions, geographic locale, whatever. You have to shed all of that if it's interfering with your progress forward. And so what you see in Abraham's life is a series of adventures, each of which are marked by a sacrifice that move them upward towards a higher and higher and more integrated form of being. Right. He's the redeemer of cities at one point. And there's nothing in that that doesn't seem accurate to me psychologically. And so. And it's an exciting thing to understand because it's. The Abrahamic story is the template for individual development. That's a good way of thinking. But Abraham is the first real individual in the Western canon, and the stories vary. It's very psychologically astute once you understand the basic reference. Once you understand, for example, that sacrifice at least in part, means dispensing with something you once valued but has now, say, become an impediment. And so. Well, so that's a little bit more of a description of the domains of thought that I've been wandering in.
