A (2:58)

It's a consistent practice. It's prayer, work, mindfulness, meditation, conscious breathing. It requires more responsibility from you on a daily basis to prepare yourself for the biggest battle.

B (3:10)

When did you first become aware of that feeling of not being enough?

A (3:14)

I kind of get emotional about it because it's still deep inside of me.

B (3:18)

Do you feel like in your career you've achieved everything you set out to as a tennis player?

A (3:23)

When you reach your 30, you start counting your days to your retirement. I'm 38 this year. How far can I go? How long can I push my own limits?

B (3:34)

The number one health and wellness podcast, Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.

A (3:38)

The one, the only Jay Shetty.

B (3:42)

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world. Thanks to Ethan, each and every one of you who come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, this is an incredible statistic that I'm sharing for the first time. Thanks to you, we are now creating 500 million views every month. Not every year, every month. And I'm so grateful that you're part of this community. Today I get to welcome back a guest who has been a big part of making that possible for me. I. I'm grateful to him. I'm indebted to him because he believed in the mission of On Purpose even before many people did or any people did. Before this podcast was even out, he allowed me the gracious kindness to go and interview him and release as the second episode of all time. Welcoming back to On Purpose. I'm so excited to have my friend, the incredible human, Novak Djokovic.

A (4:43)

Novak, thank you, G. You are.

B (4:47)

I mean, do you know what? I'm so grateful to have you back, and my heart is so full because you were one of those rare people that had seen one of my first ever videos. We'd reached out, we'd connected, we were talking a lot at the time. You were going through a really fascinating place in your career. You were recovering from an injury. It was a different mindset. You were just on the cusp of becoming the greatest of all time and. And you took a chance on me in so many ways, and I'm eternally indebted and grateful to you for that. So thank you for coming on then and coming back now.

A (5:23)

Jay, thank you. It's a great pleasure to see you again and to be able to talk to you. Thank you for kind words in introduction and as well, reflecting on our first conversation in 2019. I don't think I took A chance, because we talked about it just before we started officially recording. You know, when you are connected with yourself and with your emotions, and when you feel someone deeply and look in someone's eyes and you understand instantly with your instinct, with your intuition, whether this person thinks good or thinks bad or has the right intention, has the heart at the right place. So I could see that from the first moment with you, and that's where I felt the connection. And even though we haven't seen each other for a few years, I'm just so glad that we are able to connect now. And you led me through the list of all the guests that you had in the last almost 300 episodes in the last five years. And I couldn't be happier for you and for your wife and for your entire team. Amazing.

B (6:21)

Thank you, man. And it's. You gave me my first Wimbledon experience. I got to see you play on Center Corp. How was that? It was amazing. I mean, are you kidding me? It was like. And you crushed. You won, obviously. But it was just such a brilliant experience to see you play after getting to understand your psychology. And I think that's what I've respected about you over time, that you've really worked hard on your internal game as much as your external game. And I think you're one of those few rare athletes that have raised the consciousness by working on your own consciousness. So today I want to dive deep into that, and I want to dive right in. I wanted to start by asking you, like, what has it taken to become Novak Djokovic? What has it actually taken to become you internally?

A (7:09)

You know, you mentioned that I took a lot of the time and attention to dedicate myself to the internal work. And, you know, I've been blessed and really lucky in a certain way to be surrounded with certain people at the very early stages of my career and my life that have directed me into this direction of self care, of holistic approach, of multidisciplinary approach, to the preparation, to the prevention, to the recovery, both physical, mental, emotional. And at that time, because I was so young, I didn't understand that, and it didn't need to be explained to me in depth at that point. I trusted my tennis mother, as I like to call her. She passed away 13 years ago, but she was the one that really introduced this holistic concept to me. You know, we were. I was going, you know, obviously to school, and then I was only nine years old and nine, ten, and I was training with her maybe two or three times a week individually, tennis, and then I would have group sessions and my parents were, you know, were trusting her enough to allow her to participate directly into my upbringing basically. So she also educated me off the tennis court as well. So she took me very often, at least two times per week to her house where we would look at the tapes of all the greats, both male and female tennis players. That's where my impersonation started. People still to this day ask me, when are you going to do the imitations, impersonations? And I haven't done it. I've done it early in my career and it was fun, it was viral and people liked it. And then I received a little bit of an evil looks in the locker room and I kind of felt like maybe I'm stepping over the line. So that's why I stopped. But that's where it started. And I was like, I was really trying to adapt all of the great things that I could see. And I have a kind of a photogenic memory and I'm a very visual person. And that was something that was kind of expected, that is kind of common as well, what you do with kids, you know, or with young athletes, right? You watch videotapes, you try to analyze, you try to talk. But then she had me listen to classical music and she said it's very important that you do that almost on a daily basis. Listen to classical music while you are writing your journal, while you are preparing for bed or any time of the day, but particularly those times. And I liked it. I didn't understand the purpose of it, but I liked it. And so we would look at the tapes and we would listen to this music and then we would read poetry and, and then we would do a visualization practice. At that time it was not presented to me as such, but she would just say in a very simple way that would be understood by a boy, a 10 year old boy. Just close your eyes and think about how you want to play tennis and think about when you're at your happiest. So it started at the very early age and I'm so eternally grateful to her for instilling this in me and teaching me, you know, how to see life basically and understand that tennis is not as an individual sport, of course, is also different because you don't have anyone to replace you if something goes bad during the match. You have to figure out a way. So I think it requires more responsibility from you on a daily basis to prepare yourself for a biggest battle internally and also externally, of course, with your opponent and with everything that is happening around. But, you know, so it taught me to really understand that tennis is not only about hitting a tennis ball over the net and counting score and dreaming about these achievements and winning Wimbledon as our holy grail of tennis. But it's more than that. And I can use tennis as a platform to evolve into a better human being. At that point, I didn't understand that. But then as I was growing older and becoming more mature, I started to understand the importance of doing all of these practices and I started to expand on each of these topics that I was going through with her. And then I started going into yoga. I started going into the movement, into Christianity or to a Christian. I'm very proud of my religion, but at the same time, I am very open to embrace anything that can teach me from other religions and from the spirituality as a whole. So I'm very curious by nature. So I was really always looking for new ways to improve myself and improve my life on this planet, you know, and I was very lucky to basically have that space also for my parents. It's a kind of a self discovery through the self care through tennis really consumed most of my life. I mean, still does not to that extent, of course. I mean, I have two kids. I have family and other businesses and other things that interest me. So I'm, you know, I'm balancing right now between tennis and the other stuff, and I'm kind of making that transition slowly. I still play professional tennis and I still experience my worst self on the court and my best self. And so going back to your comment at the beginning where you said you're one of the athletes that really have immersed himself into the spirituality, into understanding the holistic approach and so forth, and the mental health. I would say yes. But I'm still surprising and shocking myself on how much I actually need to still work on that. And I still, quote, unquote, don't know enough about that world. And it was really hard for me to accept that. I thought since 10, I basically started working on that and growing the foundation, but it has evolved and has transformed so much for me in terms of how I see myself, how I see the world, and. And I thought maybe when I was at the peak of my career and I felt like I'm unbeatable and I feel like I could do anything, I'm kind of walking on the water. We all experience that in our own lives in certain way, and it's a great feeling. But then the ego takes you places where it's hard to come back from. And Maybe you shouldn't come back from that. Maybe you're trying to find a balance, find the optimal measure that really works for you. But it took me time to really accept the fact that what I have learned, what I have mastered, and what I'm doing on a daily basis for the last 20 years or more is not necessarily a guarantee that I'll always find a way and that will always work for me in this particular time of my life and circumstances that I'm facing. So that's a huge revelation for me because. And I'm still trying to get a grasp on it and understand all of these factors that are in play that are challenging me on a daily basis. And when I talk from this perspective, it's a beautiful journey that I'm trying to embrace. But when you are immersed in the dark moment, it's kind of hard to really get out of that.

B (14:30)

Yeah. No, I love what you're saying because in the Gita, the ancient text of India, it's spoken on a battlefield. And the idea is that you're always on a battlefield. And as you said, on the battlefield, you see the best of yourself and the worst of yourself. And often people said that to me when I moved to la, everyone's like, why do you want to be in la? There's so much materialism, there's so much illusion here. And I said, well, actually, I feel like I'm on the battlefield here. So I see the best of myself and I see the worst of myself. And the worst of myself reminds me to keep going and to keep working on myself. And the best of myself allows me to share my message with the biggest megaphone in the world. And so it's that dichotomy of. Actually, when you're looking for spiritual growth, you want to be in a place that reminds you of your weaknesses as much as your strength. Because if you were only reminded of your strength, you'd just have your ego. And if you were only reminded of your weaknesses, well, then you would be depressed or disheartened.

A (15:28)

And.

B (15:28)

And so that balance is really interesting. As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, do you feel like in your career you've achieved everything you set out to as a tennis player?

A (15:38)

Yes, and more than that. And at the same time, I still want to do more. And I know that that comes in a big part from a good place, meaning from a place of purpose, inspiration, motivation, love for the sport, passion for the sport, passion to make people happy when they watch me, if I'm doing that And I have a feeling that I am, by still actively being on the tennis tour and having my tennis career, active tennis career, I'm still spreading that light by playing tennis and inspiring younger generations. That's something that comes from a good place. But what comes from maybe not necessarily a bad place, but less of a good place, I have identified that as well, is my feeling of not being enough. And that goes back to my very, very beginning of my life and my relationship, particularly with my father and not doing enough, not being good enough, et cetera, et cetera. So now that I'm talking about it, I kind of get emotional about it because it's still deep inside of me. And it's kind of the battle that I also go through often because a lot of people, even closest people in my life, ask me, what more do you want? You have achieved everything. What do you want? Why do you keep going? And I tell them the good part that I told you that I still really strongly feel it's inside of me. And I feel like as long as I have the capacity or ability to compete for the biggest titles in my sport, I want to keep going. And also partly the part that I didn't mention that inspires me to keep going is to test my limits mentally and physically. Because when I was starting to break through into professional tennis, I remember when you reach your 30, you start counting your days to your retirement. Like, after 30, you know, that's it pretty much. Even though there were some exceptions, like Jimmy Connor is the legend of our game. He played, I think, semifinals or finals of US Open when he was 40 and still dominating the tour. But very few exceptions nowadays, it's different. Why? Because I think the care for the body has improved so much. I mean, now not only top 10 or 15 guys or girls on the tour have multiple people in their squad to take care of them. You have top 50 people that are taking care of them. It's due to the improvement, of course, of the conditions for the players. And we earn more across the board. So it allows you to hire more people that would take care of your body. And I think that it's also a kind of a curiosity from my side. How far can I go? I'm 38 this year. You know, how long can I push my own limits? And I don't feel like I do have limits. And I feel like the limits are normally constructs in our mind. I've seen the episode you did with Brian Johnson the other day, and then he talked about, you know, he's by A lot of people's opinion, very extreme. But, you know, he dedicated his own entire life to getting the data and understanding what are the best conditions for the longest living life that he can have for himself, which I think is something that is admirable, and I give him huge credit for that. And I understand because as a professional athlete, the care for your body and your mind and the devotion to the daily habits is so tough, because when you want to change a certain habit, science says it takes at least 21 days, right. For the brain to start growing new neurons that are reprogramming. But if you don't have the right environment, that's going to be very, very challenging. So that was also one of the things that I wanted to reflect on in your question is the environment is the one that can be very stimulative to you. It can be really supportive, or it can be pulling you down. So it's super important. Even though we always encourage ourselves to be independent in terms of what we do, what we eat, how we sleep, how we lead our lives and what we do and how we can live the best version of our lives possible. But at the same time, we are social beings, we are very tribal beings. And even if it's the smallest community, we still want to belong to that community. We still want this community to support us, even if it's one person or two. But it's super important in the end of the day, because making tough choices, these are tough choices, because society, when you go out there, super majority of the places where you go to eat or people that you see, it's a kind of a vicious cycle and they lead their life in a certain way that maybe doesn't coincide or correspond to your choices that you want to make the new choices or maybe the new changes. So it's really hard, you know what I mean, living in the big city and deciding you want to go through transformational journey on a daily basis. We're being exposed to. To something that is contrary to what you're trying to achieve. I feel like it's reinventing yourself constantly. For me, I've had this kind of upbringing, had the great foundation, and I've achieved incredible things. I was dreaming of becoming number one in the world and becoming a Wimbledon champion. And that was my dream. I achieved that dream within two days. I won Wimbledon and at the same day became number one in the world. In 2011, in front of my family, in front of president of Serbia who was there, I mean, he was with the welcoming of hundreds of thousands of people on the way back. It's just once in a lifetime type of experience. And when you do something for the first time, obviously that big, it's just like you're flying to the moon. I mean, you're not. It's a kind of an out of body experience. But then I felt like I had to set new goals and because I was, you know, at the time, 2011, I was 23 years old, 24. So, okay, what do I do next? You know, I feel like I'm at, you know, peak of my powers and I want it so, so then I want to win multiple Slams, then I want to win all slams at once, then I want to win gold medal for my country, then I want to make history and so forth, so forth. So I think goal oriented mind, particularly in sports, but also in business or anything really, I think it's super important because the clarity from my experience is something that is essential to have also peace of mind and to have a calm heart that you know what you're doing and that you set your goals, your short term goals, your long term goals, and you know exactly the strategy that you need to implement to achieve them. And you surround yourself with the people who are supporting you, but also people who are telling you what you don't want to hear, giving you constructive criticism or maybe giving you non constructive criticism and then putting you very down. But that's also part of the journey. It's also learning how to get up like a phoenix and rise and try to develop a thick skin, so to say. So it's a constant process really. I don't see myself fully satisfied, if that's maybe a shorter answer, because I have that part of me which is like, I think I can still do more, but the other side of me is like, of course I'm fully, I'm happy and I'm proud and in a way I can't wait one day for me to reflect on everything. But while I'm still in my active career, I don't have time. Tennis has the longest season of all sports. January starts, January ends almost end of November. And of course I earn my right in a way to be selective with tournaments where I play. So that's what I'm doing. I'm not playing as much. I'm focusing on the big ones and I'm trying to incorporate all of these other things inside of my career and basically expand the platform and use my voice for other things than just the tennis court. And I'm super blessed to be in the position That I am. But as I said, it's a constant journey and process.

B (24:05)

Yeah, I really appreciate you being honest about your experience with your father because I think that pretty much anyone who goes off to do something successful externally, all of us, and everyone was channeling some sort of internal inadequacy or an internal feeling of not being enough, as you said. And I wanted to ask, when did you first become aware of that, that you had that feeling of not being enough, and how have you helped that evolve in the healthiest way possible? What has been that journey of almost having to live with it because it's there, but not letting it be your guiding light?

A (24:48)

Well, you're right, it makes sense because I think if you use it as the right fuel, it can actually serve as a great motivating factor. Right. It can push you, it can, you know, stimulate you to extract the most amount of necessary energy on a daily basis to achieve your goals and to basically live your dream. I think for me, it started really as something that was inevitable, as a part of the environment that I was in. I touched upon that a little bit in our conversation five, six years ago. My upbringing with several wars and sanctions and embargo and poverty and everything. So, you know, from a very young age, I was basically forced to mature very quickly because I'm an oldest of the three brothers, I have two younger brothers. So as an oldest son to my father, I was basically kind of in a position where I had to be informed very early on, particularly the age of 11, 12, when we had that bombing and the war and sanctions that state that we are in as a family or as people of my country, the situation, the circumstances, my father had to bring it forward to me in a very clear and mature way. So, you know, one of the most impactful moments of my upbringing and my childhood is when he brought 10 Deutschmarks. And I've said this story many times, which is equivalent to $10. And he said, this is all we got for our family of five is living in a super small apartment. That's where it hit me. It was like, okay, now I have to take the means in my hands as a 12 year old boy in whatever way I can. At least what I can do is support my mother maybe from some of the burden that she has during the day of taking care of my younger brothers. And that's where it also hit me that not having success is not an option, like I have to succeed. It's basically a matter of existence, a survival of my family. So I think it started there and then over the years it has obviously transformed or evolved into different kind of form. But I think that and also my relationship with my father, oftentimes because of maybe lack of patience of my father or of people around, because everyone saw that I have a talent. I was coming from Serbia that had no tennis tradition, no tennis culture. We are a nation of team sports. We are definitely a sporting nation. We love sports, but team sports. And at that point during 90s, it was about survival. People were watching sports, but there was not much support for the sports. It was particularly not tennis, a very expensive sport at the time. I chose the most difficult sport for my parents in most difficult time for our nation and for my family. So oftentimes I wouldn't travel because we didn't have money. And then you know, obviously, as you can imagine, Tennis federation didn't have, you know, money to support me. So my father had to go and beg. And then he was also borrowing money from unfortunately even some criminals at the time during 90s. And then they would, you know, they would tell him it's funny story right now, but at the time it wasn't funny, particularly for him. But you know, he would go and he said, first time I was going to go to United States to play, I was 15 years old. I was going to play like big junior events here, like Prince cup and Orange Bowl. They're the biggest ones under 16 and under 18. And also more importantly, I was going with my father hopefully to get the sponsorship or, you know, get recruited by one of the big agencies, IMGs or whatever. So he went for us for money because we didn't have. So he went to us for $5,000. And so these criminal people that you could borrow money from because banks obviously would not give it to you. And then they said, he asked them, how much are you in rush? And he's like, listen, I'm asking this money from you because of my son. He's playing tennis. We're going in America. I'll return this money within whatever they agreed on, one or two months, whatever it is, three months. He says interest rate was 15%, but because you are in rush, it's 25. So my father was like, okay, you know, I'll take it because I have no other option. And I can only imagine the stress that he was going through and trying to turn this money where people were really car chasing him, shootings in our capital town, stuff that my father went through to really not only survive himself, but to actually allow all of us to live and protect us and to allow me to live my dream and to play the most expensive sport at the time for my country is something that I'm eternally indebted. There is no money or there's nothing that can return the favor, so to say. So, of course, my father is always my hero for that and my champion. But feeling of not enough because of that stress and what things that he was going through. And then it was hard because he was giving me also hard time if I wouldn't play well. And it's like. And then I understood, but at the same time, I was afraid. I knew what I have to do, but, you know, it's hard for me to deliver it when you need. It's like, okay, you need to win no matter what type of situation. He wasn't telling me that, but that's how it felt. And that felt like that for years. So that's why I say that the success that I have achieved is not only due to my father or my parents or myself. It's also the divine, higher force. I strongly believe that there was an intervention, and there still is. There's higher forces in power that were helping me in some of the most difficult moments in my family as well. I am a man of faith, and I really, truly believe in God and the higher spiritual force that intervenes in the most difficult moments if you open your heart, if you pray, and if you believe in it. So I felt it on my own skin. Jay, to be honest, I really don't know how I won certain matches. I cannot explain it, even with my team. After I would finish a Grand Slam final against Roger Federer in 2019 Wimbledon, when he was a far better player. I saved some match points, and I came off the court. All stats were going his way. I won the match, and I just said, you know, and I wasn't playing well. I wasn't feeling well on the court, and I was just, like, struggling and scrambling and trying to stay out there, stay alive. And I won in the end in one of the most epic finals in history of tennis. And then I told to my parents and my family and my team and my wife, I said, I don't know how I won this match. I have no idea. At the same time, I do know deep inside that there's that connection happening and that there's also that help. So there's a mix of things. It's really hard to explain. Sometimes there's this divine power that really, if you allow it, if you believe it, that really helps you come out of a trouble and achieve things before.

B (32:23)

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A (36:51)

You hit the nail with that one. It's a consistent practice. So it's prayer work, mindfulness meditation, conscious breathing, visualization, presence, basically many other things as well that just NLP or you know, there's a lot of different techniques that I have been practicing and trialing always with myself before I would recommend it to someone else. And over the years I've developed my own formula that changes depending on the feeling, depending on whether I'm on the court, whether I'm at home, practice, whatever it is that I'm doing. But I try to do it when nobody's watching. And sometimes I verbalize things, sometimes I don't, sometimes I write things down, sometimes I just internalize. It just depends. But I think most importantly in the end is that you are doing something. I'm actually reading this book. One of the books that I'm reading currently is the Power of Surrendering and Letting Go. It is an amazing book for me at the moment because of my upbringing, because of my character and because of my life story, hard for me to let go. It's hard for me to surrender unless it's to the higher power. But I'm still working on how to surrender and let go of certain things in relationship with close ones or my relationship with tennis or you know, if I lose a match or a tournament, if I go through a crisis period. And how to not hold something that pulls me down or regret or you know, it's a constant work, but I feel like if you devote the time on a daily basis, whatever works for you. You had some of the most amazing guests on your show that talked about from neuroscientists to doctors, nutritionists, and talked about the healthy habits. So I don't want to be talking as them as I'm not an expert, but in my fields or so to say, in my own life and experience, I feel like I'm an expert because I have tried and developed so many different things over the last 30 years and, and I know what works and what doesn't in a way. But going back to the very beginning organization, it's not again a guarantee that it will keep on working for the rest of my life. But I know what will is my dedicated time in a day to this practice, mental practice, physical practice, of course, activity practice that I'm doing in the gym, outside and tennis court or when I'm not training. I still do stuff, still do some yoga practice, still do stretching, I still do breathing. I love the qigong and the Chinese traditional medicine or Chinese tradition practices. I think they're super good and important that you can do even in your chair. There's always, there's ways and it's incredible nowadays in Internet and I mean there's access to incredible things. All it takes is a willpower to do it and a desire to say, okay, I'm consciously making this decision to change my life for better. And I'm going to start with small steps, super important. It's hard. You have so much judgment in this society, in this world, right? It's really hard for people. As we talked about the environment, as much as effort you're putting in. And then you come with your friends or whatever, with your family members and then they start to judge you because you're starting to act weird because you're not normal, you're not conforming to the norms of the society, whatever they are, because it's quite relative. We are all different, but the norms of society are not really healthy ones. Otherwise we wouldn't be where we are as A world ecosystem as a whole, as people and what we are doing to our planet, et cetera. There's a lot of awakening happening and it's great to see that change, but it's not easy for people. And I understand that. And it's okay not to feel okay. We heard that many times as well. And sometimes, as I said, accepting and embracing for me and letting go of the fact that I cannot find a solution to something that happens in my brain, in my mind is also fine of being in a dark place for as long as it requires is also a humane thing. It's also part of our life. I can see there's also a narrative that I don't really necessarily like or support in our, let's say, wellness, mindfulness space, well, being space, where it's presented by certain people in such way that you can only think positive thoughts and there's no room for negative thoughts that, you know, every picture or video they post online is smiling, it's great life and so forth. I mean, that's not possible, right? I mean, you cannot convince me that there is a single person in this planet, even the monk in Tibet that is meditating 24 7, or an orthodox Christian priest in a holy island in Greece that is 24 7, praying, you know, peace, isolated in the cave that is not experiencing some negative thoughts. And I always go back to what one of my friends told me, that he's also a mental coach. And I worked with him for years. And one of his teachers is Zen Buddhism teachers, and he goes to the temple in France often to his teacher. And he asked him in one of the first times that he was there doing retreats and spending time at the temple. He says, how are you so calm? You know, how is it that nothing really rivals you or unsettles you? Like, you're always so serene, you don't have any negative thoughts. And he said, the answer from the teacher is that he says it's not true. He says, I probably have more negative thoughts and more challenging thoughts and emotions than you have. The difference between you and me is my training and my ability to not stay in that state and in that emotion for a long time. So I stay in it for seconds and you stay in it for who knows, right? So I think there's true wisdom in that. And it's all about practice. Everything. I mean, brain is a muscle like any other, even consciousness, that comes naturally to us. I mean, we are conscious spiritual beings. We are souls on this planet, in this body. But in order for us to Connect with our true self. We need to go through these layers, the constructs of the society that has developed us in a way has shaped us. And that requires practice on a daily basis. And that's not easy. Look, it's not easy not switching on your phone or your TV the first thing in the morning, but doing something that is maybe not as healthy, but being devoted to that practice or during the day having that little 1, 2, 5, 10, 20 minute rest time and comprehension time. It's not easy to do that. Especially for people that didn't develop that kind of habit. It doesn't come naturally. I mean my. Even though I don't like giving advices, we talked about it, but I like to share something that works as a suggestion, something that works extremely well for me. And this is crazy that Even in the 21st century we are even talking about this as a hack. It should be like an everyday thing, that it's a natural, most natural thing is to spend time in nature, listen to the birds chirping, listen to the wind, feel the wind, feel the. I mean, if you're by seaside or oceanside, walk by the water or any water or pond or lake, or just be without a phone and in nature, let the nature do its job and heal you. And there's so much more power to that than we actually think. And I felt like in the darkest moments when I really don't want to do any of these techniques or any of the time indoors, I just go out and I just go out and preferably walk uphill because I feel like when you walk uphill, your heart rate raises obviously. And because of that effort you're even more present, so even less time for your thoughts to consume you so you're fully present. And then when you get to a certain point high at the top, you feel good about yourself because you've done something, you're in the nature, you're dedicated time to yourself. So I feel like that's super powerful and it's oftentimes very underestimated.

B (45:35)

The reason why I love hearing about your practice is just because I think, I think an athlete's mind is one of the most unique places on earth. Because when you're dealing with extremes every day and every week and both extremes of being number one and then losing a game and you know, everything that goes on, the toolkit you have is one of the most versatile toolkits. And that's why I asked that question was just to understand what you do. I was going to ask you, like, I feel like One of the most challenging things. And you probably remember this when you are the new kid on the block and you're playing all the legends, and today you're the legend, and you're playing the new kids on the block, and it must be such a fascinating experience to go through. And when you talk about the power of letting go and the power of surrender, I wanted you to talk to us about that. Like, what did it feel like when you were the new kid on the block and you were playing your legends that you looked up to, and now you're the legend, you're the goat, you're the number one, playing the new kids on the block, like, what does that mentally look like?

A (46:34)

It's a completely different feeling, obviously, and different perspective. I mean, when you're a teenager coming up and then you know you're in a dreamland, when you are just sharing a locker room with the legends of the game or the guys that you look up to, your biggest rivals, they are becoming your biggest rivals later on, but at that point, they're heroes. They're like, my gosh, I mean, these guys, I've seen them on the tv, and now I'm.

B (47:00)

Who was that for you at that time?

A (47:02)

I mean, look, my idol growing up was Pete Sampras. And even though Pete's game and my game are quite different, I don't know, I loved his demeanor. I loved his ability to cope with the pressure and how he was coming up with the best tennis when it mattered the most. And that was kind of a sign of a greatest champion. I mean, he was holding a record for most slams and weeks, number one, et cetera, for a long time until Roger came and Rafa, of course, and then, of course, paved the way and then looking up to them as well. Even Nadal is only a year older than me, but he made a breakthrough earlier than I did already for a couple of years. He was on the tour when I started coming in, and he was already number two in the world, multiple slam winner and etc. So, of course, it was kind of a surreal experience for me, and I tried to enjoy it and embrace it, but at the same time, I felt like, okay, it's great to share the court with these guys, but I want to beat them. You know, I want to get the biggest titles. I want to be number one. I want to dominate. So I think that the first kind of that wave that I was riding on helped me to win my first Slam when I was 19 in Australian Open in 2008. And then I Won a couple of big tournaments and so forth. I reached number two in the world, but, you know, I still wasn't number one. And then I had a three year period. I didn't win a slam. I was winning some big tournaments, but I couldn't win a slam. These two guys were beating me in every big match. Feather and a doll. I changed rackets, you know, team members. I did everything I can to kind of find the right formula. And I was struggling physically as well. I wasn't, you know, that's where actually I had my transformative journey, nutrition wise, where I took out the gluten and dairy products and refined sugar. Up to that point, I was eating all of these things thinking, well, I'm eating relatively healthy. I mean relatively healthy. I thought, thought, that's what I know. But then when I started working with this doctor and he pointed out, if you have strong gluten intolerance, messes up with your gut, got to take that out. You got to take out the dairy product because that creates a lot of inflammation in your body. You might be able to eat it later on, but not now. And refined sugar? Absolutely no. So that was a huge change, but I committed to it. And then I felt that affected me, it affect my mental clarity, my recovery was much better, my decision making on the court was better, etc. So that helped a lot. And of course mentally as well, I was working on certain programs that I had that were kind of not really very positive and not really serving the purpose on the court of winning a match. So that year in 2010, 2011, is when I experienced a huge boost of energy and transformation and that change. An unbeaten run of 40 plus matches and had three slams and became number one and had one of the best seasons of my life. And that's where everything started going in the upwards direction for me. And learning also from these guys and the matches that we've played against each other was something that was extremely important for me at the time. I was of course trying to consume as much as I can this energy of the center court and everything. And it was overwhelming at times. But I was also very thorough in my analysis of the matches afterwards. Even though I don't necessarily like to watch matches that I lost. But you know, Kobe Bryant used to talk about this a lot and when I was talking to him personally about that, he would. Because I told him, Kobe, I really don't like watching myself perform bad or when I lost. And it just gives me this cramps in my stomach and I don't like it. And he said, even if it's just specific intervals of the match that you lost that you want to watch, that you definitely look at that and you need to analyze that and you need to go through that cramping feeling, because that's where you learn from those. Those mistakes, and that's where you have an opportunity to rectify that the next. Next tournament or next match and so forth. So that helped a lot. And I do watch the matches that I lost and highlights and certain parts, but I never watch the last point. I don't want to watch the point where my opponent fist bumps and raises his hands. Maybe I don't know, it's a superstition or not, but it's just some kind of a feeling that I have. But, yeah, those rivalries really shape me into the person I am, into the player that I am, and definitely grateful for everything that I experienced with these guys.

B (51:59)

And now the flip, now, when you're playing the younger players.

A (52:03)

Well, now the flip is obviously an interesting experience for me because when Federer, Nadal and Murray, my biggest rivals, retired, actually most recently in the last year or two, part of me left with them. And I really feel that because. And I thought, well, it's not going to be difficult for me to kind of shift my attention in terms of who are my principal rivals on the tour, from them to someone else. But, you know, it is. It is tough because, you know, I'm used to these names, these guys, these faces for 20 years, and then new faces come in and it's normal, how can I say, evolution of our sport. And it's normal that you have new generations that are kind of come in and dominate the tour. I'm experiencing something I have never experienced before, but that's also fine. I'm trying to embrace this journey. But also I think what is very important to me personally and what I have expressed directly to all of my basically rivals currently today, the young guys who are going to be the carriers of the tennis for the next decade, is that I'm here for them to share my experience, even though it's difficult because we're facing each other. But I still feel that in a way, that's also my role, it's also my responsibility, and it's also a great opportunity for me to do that, because it really fills my heart with joy that I'm able to convey my experiences, my knowledge, whatever that I can from my journey to a new generation. Because naturally, the tennis should get better, and we all want tennis to get better, to Be better. And I want somebody to break my record in the future. All of the records, why not? I mean, this is how it should be. If I can contribute in a way where I can say, hey, aside of the barriers that we created in a rivalry, if you need help with, I don't know, public relations, if it's marketing, if it's dealing with the outside world as well, that is very difficult. Dealing with anxiety, we all have that. We all know how it is to feel alone. You let yourself down or you let other people down. Mental challenges in a high level professional sport are 100% present with everyone. It's just a matter of how you deal with it, who you have in your support system that can help you. So I feel like it was great when I was able as a kid to ask some of the guys who were playing at the top level some of the questions that were interesting me. And that just hearing from them two or three sentences of how they think that they were dealing with it and how that affected them was huge to me. Even if you heard it from someone else, but just hearing it from them, it just has this resonant power and impact. And it did help me a lot. I didn't have it from my top rivals at the time, but I had it from some guys, like Ivan Ljubicic, for example, who was, you know, fellow Croatian tennis player. And he was number three or four in the world at that point. And then I was breaking through as a teenager and we shared the same tennis coach. He influenced me in a positive way to, like, change the racket or string pattern or strings, and all of these small details that you might not think that are maybe relevant, but you hear it from them and then you're like, okay, now I'm ready to make the decision because I trust what he tells me because, you know, he's a testament to what he's preaching, basically.

B (55:45)

Yeah, it's so interesting because I love that you offered that. I was talking to Carmelo Antony recently, the basketball player from the Knicks and, you know, very successful hall of Famer, and he was telling me that in basketball he doesn't find the young players being that open to coaching and guidance from the senior players. How do you find it in tennis? Is it more open? Did you get people coming back and saying, novak, I have loads of questions for you.

A (56:11)

Yeah, I would agree with that with Carmelo, because also in tennis, because it's an individual sport as well, it makes it even more isolated, solitude sport where you are focused on your team and you create your own environment, community, and you're like, excluding everything else, which is understandable to some point. Contrary to, let's say, basketball, we do share the locker room. So we sitting next to each other or warming up next to each other, playing finals for the biggest tournament, which is crazy to think about it. Whereas, obviously, the basketball or football, soccer, these guys, they don't see each other until they actually on the court, we look at each other, send each other looks. Our team members send each other looks in the locker room and stuff. So the battle starts already there. So from that point of view, it's kind of hard to expect that they would come and say, hey, look, give me some advice. How can I beat you? But that's why I'm saying there's many more other things that can be very helpful outside of the court. And yes, there are some young players that are, how can I say, open, more flexible, more curious. And I think it's maybe not so much about that, but it's about how shy you are or how courageous you are to really break that boundary and not be afraid of coming to me or to someone that you look up to and say, hey, can I ask you a question? More often, I would get questions through their team members, to my team members, to me, and then I would approach them and say, hey, you can talk to me. There's no problem. Yeah, but I don't want to bother you and stuff like this. So, yeah, I think it's very nice if you have that exchange, even if it's a short one, because the level of appreciation and respect, which I think is ultimately the most important thing in sports, you know, yes, we all want to win. Yes, we all want to be the best. Yes, we all want to make records in history. But appreciating what your fellow athlete goes through, compassionate, being compassionate and empathizing with him or her and respecting the process is something that is more eternal in your heart, in your soul, and in the eyes of all the other people than any achievement or any success. I mean, that's at least how I see it.

B (58:38)

I love that. I couldn't agree with you more, because I always try to remind people that the only person who can truly relate to you is that person. Like your competitors are the only people who can actually relate, right, to what it feels like to be you. Because your team, they can't fully relate. Of course they can relate. They play tennis and they understand the game, but they don't know what it feels like to be in that locker room before you Go on to be at the net when the score is not in your favor. Like, even I talk about, even in our industry. Like, I like to be friends with everyone in my industry, and I like to connect with anyone that you genuinely get along with. Because for me, I'm like, you're the only person who understands what. What it feels like to interview people, to get the public criticism, to have the scrutiny, to be careful about what you're saying to, you know, whatever it may be. And if I'm not friends with you, I have my friends from back home in London who I love. They're my best friends, but they don't know what it feels like to do this.

A (59:37)

Right.

B (59:38)

And so in this part of my life, there's a difference. I wonder with you. You've been through, and I want to talk about some really pivotal moments. You've been through so many injuries, losses, all of that at this point in your career, when you've achieved so much, you've been through so much, what goes through your mind when you lose?

A (59:55)

Now, answer that, but just want to reflect on what you said on the industry, because I think it's super important.

B (60:00)

Yeah, please.

A (60:02)

And that's the mentality, the right kind of mentality, and the philosophy of. Instead of division, it's unity, it's collaboration, it's understanding, it's support, it's respect, it's appreciation, it's coming together, it's growing industry together. Understanding that you're all, yes, you are competitors. I mean, even in your industry, you compete for the audience and so forth. And there's a lot of podcasts out there. And it's understandable to a certain point that there are certain formulas that you developed and tools that you want to keep to yourself, which is 100% understandable. But at the same time, overall, in a general perspective of things, we are part of the same industry. We need to grow. We need to grow this awareness. So that's how I also see it for tennis in sports, even more so competition and kind of a fierce mentality is so prominent to the point where, like, for example, in basketball, I love basketball. You know, Serbia is a country of. Basketball is our national sport, number one. And you have intentionally, maybe in the midst of a battle under the rim, fighting for a rebound, hurt somebody, and that somebody. You elbowed somebody, okay, and that somebody's down and you can see him in pain, and you don't come and give him a hand and say, hey, man, sorry, let's go. I don't see how that exposes Your weakness, because I think that's in the center of everything. It's like, don't show your weakness. Don't show your vulnerability. Be strong, be tough, whatever. Of course we have to be tough, be strong, be whatever, be fierce in terms of wanting to win and finding a way to win. But that doesn't mean that we can be also human beings that, hey, if I did something to you in a contact sport like basketball, if it's a foul or something like that, hey, you just give him a hand one second and says, whatever, let's go, let's keep it going. That doesn't mean that you will not battle in the next minute again. So that's the part which I don't really understand fully or don't support it, but that's why I feel like coming together and really showing that respect. Even if it's before the game and after the game, it really resonates with people. It does send overall a good message, and I think it improves the sport and brings people more together. Now to your question about losing a match. Right, that was.

B (62:34)

Yeah, like, at this stage of your career, I feel like you've obviously, we've talked about it, you're satisfied, you've succeeded, you've come back from like being down on points, like, and I'm trying to get into your mindset of just where it's at today and, and how it's evolved over time. Like, what does it feel now when you lose, have an early exit? Like, what does that feel like now compared to before?

A (62:55)

As hard. As hard as it was before? Yeah. Sometimes there is no rule. Sometimes it takes me an hour, sometimes half a day, sometimes a day, sometimes a week to go over the loss. I mean, it just really depends. But right after the match, you know, I would, if I have to reflect shortly about the match with my team, but I just want to be left alone. Yeah, I just have to go through my process. I don't like the. The chit chat, the small talk of trying to lift my spirits up. Right after the match. I just, like, just give me some time. I need to isolate myself, go in my room, go outside, walk, whatever it is, just blow some steam out. And then when I do that, then I'm ready to talk, socialize and stuff like this. I don't know whether that's something that is good or not in general terms, but that's just me. I feel like it's really hard for me to digest that I lost the match. As I said, sometimes takes longer, sometimes shorter to get out of it. But I do need definitely few hours to not see anybody. Like I hug my kids. If I see my kids, my kids, sometimes within those few hours they get me and they're like, daddy, we have to do this. You have to take me there and stuff. So kids have that permission to come into my space. But anybody else, I just need some time. And I just feel like sometimes it's necessary to have that. And in solitude is not necessarily bad. And I feel like we all need to learn how to embrace being in solitude and enjoy being by ourselves. Doesn't mean that we have to go to total extreme, but it has to be balanced and optimal. But we need to create that time for ourselves. Because also being bored is good. You know, being bored. This is something very interesting, you know, that I also see with my kids. Like particularly with my son keeps on telling me he's 10 and he's like daddy, like he just recently told me a few days ago we were at my parents place, countryside by the lake and we were alone and he was, we were playing different, we were playing ping pong, we were doing some kayaking in the lake and we played some football, soccer. So we had a quite active few hours of first few hours of the day and then I was doing something else, I don't know what I was doing. And then he comes up to me and is like, daddy, I'm bored. And then I had him sit down with me and I said, but son, it's okay to be bored sometimes. First of all, you had a great active morning and you did a lot of things. And second of all, when you are bored, it doesn't mean that you have to instantly take a book or a screen or anything else. You need to also learn how to be with your thoughts. And if you are not comfortable being bored indoors, go outdoors, sit on a chair and have some drink and just look at the sky. And I think that's much easier said than done. And I really would love my children to be able to be okay with being bored because that's the time when you're actually most creative or that's the time when you can manage your thoughts and everything that you have been suppressing by distracting yourself with phone, with whatever it is they don't have. My kids don't have phones, they're 10 and 7. And that's another conversation. But you know, it's a struggle, but it's important. You know, I think it's super important particularly for them at this young age to understand and develop a connection with nature, with outdoors, with activity, with all these things. And then it's inevitable, you know, soon it will come a moment where they'll have the screens and will they blend into the society's norms. But at least I'll be comfortable as a parent, that I done what I can to instill some of the foundational things in them that they will appreciate. Maybe not now, but later on in life. I think also, when I lose a match, I want to be distracted by some. I want to have my phone, I want to watch something, read something, I want to distract myself. And that's one of the bad habits that I have. So it's a battle for me. And normally how I win this battle is just go outside and I either don't take my phone, I would leave it, or if I take it, I'll just. If I'm in the city, I'll just listen to something, listen to Jay Shetty's podcast on purpose, or I would do something. Normally I would listen to music, relaxing, just to kind of calm myself. I would prefer not listening to anything and just being immersed in whatever is outdoors and trying to find a park, trying to find anything natural, you know, And I think that helps a lot. But I do need my time.

B (67:59)

Yeah, that's reaffirming for me. Because if I'm having a tough time, I've always found that being alone, I have to first make sense of how I feel about something before I hear everyone else's feelings, because otherwise someone's feeling won't satisfy me. So even if someone said, and I assume that's what you're saying, if someone came up to me and goes, oh, but, Jayba, everything's gonna be all right. It's like if I don't feel that and if I don't believe that, it doesn't matter how many times someone says that.

A (68:28)

And of course, the intention is good, of course. But it's hard for you to see that at a given moment.

B (68:34)

Correct.

A (68:34)

So I agree with that. And I think to the point of distractions, I don't think that necessarily distractions are 100% super negative. And I'll explain. I think that for a lot of people, they need a moment. However that moment lasts to. It looks like they're distracting themselves, like when I do it. But what I do is just bringing myself back to that center, whatever that is. Okay. And then I'm ready to do some other practice of breathing or whatever it is, or I can socialize, I can start speaking with people and do other things. So I don't feel it's necessarily bad unless you don't have any control of it. Unless it just carries you into hours and hours of playing games or being on social media of being. If it's that, then it's not good. Yeah, then it's not good because then you're disrupting your own rhythm.

B (69:32)

Well, what you're doing is you're disrupting the pattern, right. So instead of being there and then you're just playing the game again in your head and being down on yourself and being negative.

A (69:42)

Right.

B (69:43)

And so you're disrupting that pattern with the distraction and then that's a good thing because then you don't get into that spiral. And it's not like you're checking what people said on the comments about the game. Right. You're disconnecting from the game.

A (69:56)

I'm disconnecting. Well, the thing is that if you're on social media, which I do have a tendency to go to social media as well, like right after, even though I don't want to, but part of me wants to, it's also where I find some short clips of what happened in a match and then kind of like analyze what happened and why I did what I did or whatever. What could I could have done better? And then I see, you know this, obviously there's these shocking headlines like Djokovic is out, you know, he lost. I mean what a shock early, blah blah blah. And then I get pissed off and then I just switch that off. Right. So I don't even get to the comments or section or anything like that. Then I just leave it for whatever time. And then what you're doing is you are changing that state you're in because if you are really wired in that moment, you are almost going to burst. It's not good. I mean, how can you have a rational conversation with anybody if you're in that state? And then normally in that state if you start making decisions when you're hot headed, not good as well. I think that these are the ways of if you can like cool yourself down and then, I mean a cold shower is something that I also do sometimes when I'm cold headed that I think also helps with kind of biology. And I feel like physiology just like helps my mind, my brain calm down and then I'm able to address topics that I want to address.

B (71:29)

It's almost like what it takes to be to emotionally regulate. And if you go straight into analyzing the game or talking about it, you're actually, your heartbeat's going up, you're breathing shallow again, you're replaying the missed shot, and all of a sudden you're just bombarded by all the same emotions again. And you've got to sometimes just calm that down before you can do that effectively. It makes a lot of sense.

A (71:51)

Exactly.

B (71:52)

But what I love hearing, which is what I love about all my favorite athletes, and you're definitely, you know, when I think about my favorite athletes, you're in tennis, Cristiano in soccer, Lewis Hamilton in F1. Like, people sometimes will make fun of Cristiano online for still crying when he loses. I love that. Like, as a fan, I love that. Like, I love to see that he's. He's crying after all this time. Like, you know, he's the number one goal scorer in the world, right? He's, you know, in my opinion, he's achieved everything he possibly could. He's played amazing for his country, same way as you, but it's like he's still crying and the game's not even. It's not the Champions League anymore.

A (72:29)

He cares.

B (72:29)

Yeah, he cares. Exactly.

A (72:31)

He cares. And I agree with you.

B (72:33)

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A (75:00)

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And no one to help him. Oh, that's tough.

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B (75:30)

All right, thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in.

A (75:34)

This is the point that we discussed on particularly men professional sports. There's no room for vulnerability. And because that shows weakness, weakness exploits you. And when something exploits you, then you are vulnerable to, you know, lose the match or game or whatever it is. I mean, that's the narrative when you are crying. You are, yeah, you're often regarded as a very weak man. And I have had the same view for quite a long time, I must say. And I changed that about 10 years ago. My upbringing, there was no room for emotions. There was just like serious, I have to do my job and I have to be successful. No room for error, et cetera. But it also comes from, I think, my home where I didn't have that relationship where when I would cry, I would be with my father especially that I would feel safe, I would not feel that. And so I had to not cry and be tough. And then I have to, I kind of close myself, you know, and to the point where I wasn't able to express myself emotionally at the time. When I started dating my girlfriend, at the time my wife, you know, it was hard for me to Kind of express what I feel. Even though I'm a very talkative person, I very, you know, I like to communicate and I feel like I'm very approachable in that sense. But for a long time that was a kind of a narrative, particularly in men's sports as we talked about it. So I do like that about Cristiano as well, because in the end of the day, he's giving his heart out on the pitch for his team, for the fans, and that ultimately needs to be respected because the guy, at his age 40, after everything he has achieved, still going, still wants to win in a league that is far weaker than the best leagues in Europe, but he still has this champions mentality and he'll always have it as long as he's playing. So yeah, absolutely a credit to him for that and I do resonate with that. And I cried many times after my losses in the locker room. But also on the court, particularly after Olympics, like losses at Olympic Games for my country or Davis cup, when I play for my country, like even stronger intensity of emotions that you go through because you're not playing for yourself only in that way. I mean, when I play all the tournaments, I always represent my country, but here in this official team competitions or Olympics, it's even more emphasized the importance of your country, of wearing those colors on your sleeve or in your heart. So when you lose, you're like, you're so down and the whole world collapsed. I'm very happy that I was able to win the golden medal for my country last year in Paris Olympics, because that was a long time dream of mine. And the Olympic Games are just so special. You know, every four years I know LA is the next one. Obviously my wish is to be able to play la. I mean, hopefully I'll be still playing to be able to participate.

B (78:48)

Yeah, I hope so too. It'll be fun to be able to just watch you locally for once for sure. And we got the soccer World cup coming to America too, so. But yeah, it's an exciting time, but no, it's. I love hearing that as well. Just like when you're playing for yourself, you let yourself down, you let the fans down, but when you're playing for your country, you let the country down. And you know, no one wants to let their country down. No one wants to, you know, everyone wants to represent well and I think sometimes at a national level, athletes get it really tough when you lose for your country.

A (79:18)

Yes, it's.

B (79:19)

It's one of the hardest feelings because, yeah, it's a Different emotion. And I think we forget as fans and followers, you forget the human experience.

A (79:31)

No, for sure. I mean, look, we are very blessed as athletes on the highest level to be able to play the sport that we fell in love with. Because if not all, but super majority of professional athletes play those sports on the highest level. Because when they were kids they wanted to play tennis, basketball, football, whatever. They fell in love. And it's a love and passion for the game that got you going. So it's important to state that because we are for sure fortunate ones, but at the same time we feel that through sport we are able to connect with people and people are able to connect with the virtues that sport and the values that sport represents that help them in their everyday life. I think that's not something that has been talked about a lot. Yeah, I agree on how. Why is it that our sports are so popular? Why is it that people relate to athletes? It's because of this grit, because of this battle we all go through internal battle on a daily basis. And in sports we can of course admire the features of an athlete and the skills and the talent and the abilities. But at the same time we also identify ourselves with those athletes. We feel like, wow, this game or a match, it's in a way a condensed daily life or a condensed life into an hour two or three where you, you start at the beginning, you're even, then you end up winning or losing, but in the process or journey of the match and the game, you're going through ups and downs, particularly in individual sports. You mentioned Lewis Hamilton, another great legend. You're going through that battle of trying to win that inner battle where you go through your doubts, your worries, your fears. So all of these elements are part of everyday life, of everyday person. And that's why I feel like people relate to sports and also when they go to see sport live, particularly, but also when they watch it on tv, I feel they're able because they are so connected to the community of that club or that athlete or whatever it is, they feel like all of their problems stop at least for those hour, two, three hours that they are watching. And they feel like they can also when they're watching, I mean, that's my observation and experience with tennis fans, for example, or I mean, of course I watch basketball, football live as well, or the other fans of the other sports is that that's where they feel like they can free themselves of the emotions and the burdens that are kind of wearing them down. And sometimes it really goes to an Extreme level where people start really are swearing and fighting and throwing stuff at the athletes and behaving really bad like hooligans. And that's obviously a part that I don't support, but I can see that there's a lot of people that are like, that's why like after a game they either feel drained or they feel energized. They either feel like they have kind of like collected that energy from the stadium or they feel like they're completely like a deflated balloon because they've been through crazy intensity of the emotions and they relate, they follow every point and every second of the game. And then in the end, of course if the team loses, it's a big difference than when they win. But it's just that identification that happens that I feel like it's super strong and why sports are so important for the society and why people regard it as very. Something very popular and important for them.

B (83:27)

And I'm really glad you're having that conversation because I think it can have. Even as a kid, like I grew up playing sport, never, you know, good enough to play any semi professional or even professional level. But sport created discipline in my life, even as someone who wasn't, you know, that prolific. Sport created discipline, created teamwork. If you were playing a team sport created timeliness, created commitment, created showing up. There were so many healthy, valuable masculine traits as well that were so important and of course for women as well. And it's interesting what you say about it going the toxic side because I think it was the last Euros of the World cup and there was this statistic about how domestic violence in England goes up if England lose, but it goes up even more if England win.

A (84:15)

Oh, wow.

B (84:16)

Because people drink more when they win. So. And that's just so shocking that you see that connection too. And that's why I think it's even more important to get these positive messages through sport out so that we don't have that kind of a statistic because. And that's specifically to do with football.

A (84:33)

Soccer, yes, of course. But it is a super important. And I think. But in football it's far more extreme than in tennis. In terms of the tennis fans are ultra fans and you know, the kind of like following and being such an ultra devoted fan. I mean they literally live for that the entire year. Which I think is beautiful. When you see choreographies of some fans in the basketball games or football games. And it's just, it's arts, it's beautiful, you know, and then this energy when thousands and tens of thousands of people start singing together for their club, I mean, it's incredible feeling. That's why we all love being present, to experience that. Because ultimately human beings love to experience things because that fills our life and in sports allow us to do that. They allow us to experience some incredible, enthusiastic, exhilarating type of uplifting energy, joy. But it also the sadness or anxiousness and stuff. And so all of these emotions that you go through is just an incredible school of life in some way. But you're right, it also teaches professional sports, teach a great deal of discipline and also the never giving up spirit that I think it's important for people because today in the society, because a lot of people look to conform, to be comfortable, to, you know, there's always, you know, something that I can do differently. They don't finish things. So it's important to kind of remind yourself to be devoted and not give up and believe that you can, you know, achieve something that you set yourself up to. And so, yeah, sports, sports definitely send those values. And you're right. It's important to always emphasize that.

B (86:28)

Yeah. One of my favorite stories actually of that never give up mindset was Vanessa Bryant tells this story after Kobe Bryant tragically passed away. And she said that Kobe played through a lot of games, especially finals, when he was injured.

A (86:45)

Yeah.

B (86:46)

And she would ask him and say, why are you playing when you're injured? You should just not play, like it's okay. And he would say that if I don't play, there's going to be a fan out there who saved up to watch this game. And they can only come to one game in their life because it's expensive to get seats. And they saved up to watch me play. And if I, if I don't play, they won't see me play. And so I'm going to play through an injury. And I'm like, when you hear stories like that of athletes doing incredible things, you think, wow, like that's the power. That's the motivation. I was going to ask you, I mean, you've played through and overcome some bad injuries. What's the worst injury that you ever had to overcome to be able to come back at the top?

A (87:30)

I had a surgery of my elbow back in 2017, and I've kind of had that injury for a year and half. And I tried with. I don't normally drink anti inflammatories. I don't like those tablets and cortisone shots or anything like that. I feel like that's Only masking the problem. But, you know, sometimes if you really, you know, in tennis, we sometimes play five, six days in a row and you have no other option. And if you want to stay alive in the tournament, you have to do it. So I've done it for like a year or something with playing with under these pills, like every single match to the point where I didn't feel pain anymore. Sorry. Actually, I felt the pain even if I was taking the full dose of anti inflammatories. And that was the sign for me, like, I have to operate this. I have to do something different. I made a kind of a little bit of a wow to myself and promise that I will not operate myself throughout my career, will not make any surgery. And I felt I let myself down. I cried for days that I. I accepted to do a surgery, but surgery was done very well.

B (88:42)

You cried for days?

A (88:43)

Yeah, because I felt like I let myself down. I said, you know, I wanted to go throughout my entire career without having one surgery, but it happened. And I had an arthroscopic intervention on my knee last year during a match in Roland Garros, actually, fourth round. I won in five sets after four and something hours. But I was winning set and a half comfortably in the last 16 round. Then I felt a click. It was something. It was very weird. And I never had an injury of the knee, luckily at least that severe. And then I started to play, but I could not stand on my leg and I was playing through the pain. Then I invited physio and the doctor, and then he was touching me in this spot where my meniscus is, and I felt, wow. And that's very painful. He's like, what do you want to do? And I said, listen, I want to give it a shot. I want to try. Just give me strongest painkillers you have right now, because I'm on the court, full stadium. I can't just. I want to try. So that's what they've done. And after 30 minutes, they start kicking in. And I was kind of surviving in this 30 minutes. And then the pain went down. The pain was still there, but I went through it and I won the match. And I actually finished the match with pretty good feeling. I still had pain, but it was pretty good feeling. And I was like confident for my quarterfinals. It was coming up in two days. But the next day I went for an MRI and saw I have a ruptured meniscus and basically had to be operated. So I pulled out on the tournament and I did that operation and the Wimbledon was coming up in three weeks. And then my team was. I still remember that conversation with my team on the rooftop. And on the back of that story that you told me about Vanessa and Kobe, you know, Vanessa was telling Kobe, why do you play? Don't play like it's a normal protective advice from a dear person in your life. Same I got from all of my people, from my family members to my team members. And I remember my physio that I'm with for the last 20 years told me, yeah, you know, it's normally like four to six weeks and stuff like this, but, you know, we had some miraculous recoveries from some athletes. Lalala and my physio was sitting on the rooftop of our hotel and old team was there. And he said, I know you do not even think for a second you'll play Wimbledon. Like that's out of the question.

B (91:06)

Wow.

A (91:07)

And I didn't say anything. All the team members agreed. I didn't say anything. Actually, one thing I said, I said, I understand what you're saying, but please, for my own mental sanity, because it's Wimbledon, because it's always been a dream tournament, the most important tournament. Let's just see how it goes in the next two weeks. Because I have three weeks to the tournament and I can pull out three, four, five days before the tournament. So I have like two, two and a half weeks to play around. At that point, I was with crutches. So long story short, I've dedicated so much time in a day to recover and it was like task for me to prove even the closest people in my team and family wrong that I can recover. And it was really a mission. And I recovered and I played finals and I lost last year finals in Wimbledon. And then a week after that came to the Paris back again and played Olympics and won a gold medal. So it was the best period of my 2024 season is when I actually had a surgery, a post surgery, because something clicked in my head where he triggered me, my physio, and said, do not even think. And for me, what I heard is, okay, thank you for giving me the task because now I have a challenge on my hands. All I needed is that. And actually that's what I need now. I feel like in this phase of my career, when I'm trying to motivate myself and keep going and stuff, I need a challenge. I think athletes in the highest level, after so long, they need to feel their challenge. They need to feel that they are playing a game, even though it's Our job. But we need to feel like somebody is going to say something. You want to prove them wrong? Michael Jordan in his last dance was talking about it. He's like, even if I didn't have anybody in the crowds talking crap to me, but I still picked someone and selected him as an enemy. And just because I needed to create that enemy inside of my head to get me going. So I actually relate to that, even though I don't necessarily always look for enemies in my every match in the crowd. But I had quite an experience with tennis crowds over the years in my career. Oftentimes when I would play with Nadal and Federer, most of the times I would have most of the stadium against me. So it would be challenging. But that's also part of why my mental toughness is as it is in a kind of a hostile environment. Played most of my matches and big matches, and I kind of had to find a way to win a match and to use that energy as my fuel and not have it wear me down.

B (93:46)

What does that take to do that? Because it sounds like that scrutiny is worse than an injury. What's worse? That kind of hostile environment? Hostility or injury?

A (93:57)

Look, injury is the biggest enemy or an opponent of an athlete. Athletes, you can't do your job, you can't play your sport if you're injured. Which proves the point of self care even more of how important it is and how significantly you have to address that and approach that in your daily life as an individual athlete particularly. But at the same time, hostile environment is not ideal. I mean, you always want to be playing where you are celebrated, cheered for. Of course, you know, lifts you up in a tough moment when you're down. But I learned in the somehow in the hostile environment to thrive. And I've seen that, you know, with like Kobe did it as well. Right. LeBron, you know, other athletes as well in their respective sports, talked about it and football, they experience it a lot.

B (94:52)

People can relate to that. Like I think people always feel. Yeah, even the average person constantly feels like their work's a hostile environment or wherever. Like what allowed you to use it as fuel consistently over that time to the point where people were cheering when you finally win.

A (95:08)

Well, there are a few things. First, I mentioned that already is using that as a fuel to prove somebody wrong. And that requires work mentally to be able to transform or transmute that energy or that cheering that is against you to convince yourself it's for you. So I was saying this years ago after I was playing feather in one of the Wimbledon finals. They would cheer Roger, Roger. All the time, basically. So I was convincing myself, and I managed to convince myself, especially in the second part of the match, that they were cheering. No Olin or Novak. Novak. That's what I was hearing.

B (95:52)

Wow, that's cool.

A (95:54)

And then my mind was playing games, but I wasn't allowing it to play games with me. That basically was like, what are you talking about? I mean, they're saying, Roger. They're saying Novak. But I was like, no, no, no, they're saying Novak, Novak. Novak. Novak. So I was using that as my own force and my own fuel.

B (96:08)

I just got chilled.

A (96:10)

But it is possible. It is possible, but you need to work on that and convincing yourself in something that is different from the reality that is actually happening, or basically, in another words, creating your own reality. Because in the end, that's more philosophical question and spiritual of whether this is all one reality or it's a different. We all experience different forms of reality of what's happening. So creating your own reality and convincing yourself and basically training your subconscious mind that this is exactly what you want to hear. It is possible, but it takes an effort. But it goes a long way, because for everyday person, you can tap into that subconscious mind that basically controls 95% of your 100% daily life while you're awake. 5% is only. I mean, I was shocked. And that's science. That's not me saying it's science. That is saying that 5% is only conscious mind. 95 is. I mean, I was shocked when I heard that. It's like, how in the world are we then able to. To live how we want to live, where we are actually on autopilot most of the time. And that explains the multitasking. That explains why we can text and drive and drink and speak and do five things at the same time is because of the subconscious. But subconscious is basically reacting to what you are instilling or uploading in that program. So I feel like when I was introduced to that subconscious mind science, I felt like I've changed myself and my own perspective on things and how I approach life and performance and relationship. And I could see that. And I still make mistakes, and I still do plenty of mistakes. Not on the tennis court or outside in relationship and everything. I'm more conscious and more aware where it's coming from and why I did it. And I'm going to keep on doing mistakes, but I'll try to reduce those. And I feel like being in control is something that we all want to be in we want to control our thoughts, we want to control our lives, our partners, but it's not possible and it shouldn't be the case. You can only control what you can, which is your own process internally, and then how that comes across, what I speak to you right now and what you think in your mind and how you hear my words is, I can't control that. I can only hope that I am emitting the right kind of energy and vibe to you and that we are creating something nice. That's where I feel like we all get trapped a lot. It's like, no, I'm going to prove you the point of what I was saying and I'm going to tell you why you are causing this in me and so forth. So putting always a blame to someone else, and I mean, I can feel that with tennis, is that I can instantly see the mistake when I actually say it's my coach's fault or it's my physio's fault or my fitness coach's fault, or it's whoever's fault for me losing a match or me playing this way. So I always remind myself, hey, take the responsibility in your hands, take the means in your hands. You are in control of your life. Maybe not fully, because there's always this destiny or divine purpose of us being here and the karma from past lives and et cetera. That's another conversation. But what you can control, focus on that. The other things is just. It's in God's hands and it's in the hands of other people and how that all interacts. But I believe that when you're training yourself to think good thoughts and it comes back to you, it's the law of attraction and the law of giving and taking, and it comes back, you become what you think, right? And so there's true power in that.

B (100:07)

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A (102:34)

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B (102:39)

And no one to help him. Oh, that's tough.

A (102:41)

Jim looks like a five trip load at least.

B (102:43)

He grabs the first bag the second Bob.

A (102:46)

It looks like he's trying to do it all. One trip. He shimmies the door open, steps over the dog. Oh, and he stumbles. Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat. Jim. Now that's a man who eats his protest protein packed Oikos. With 15 grams of complete protein in each cup, Oikos Triple Zero can help build strength for every day. Oikos stronger makes everything better.

B (103:05)

And back to our episode, Novak. You've been so kind and generous with your time. I've got a few more questions for you. You know, I think you've talked so much about health, self care, discipline. I know that you have your new supplement out that I can't wait to try as well, your hydration. It's called Sila, which I love the meaning of if you can share what that means. But I love that you're finding a way to productize your mindset like I actually am. Because I think people like myself who want to know, what is that 0.0001% mindset and what are you discovering and taking? And you were just sharing it with me earlier. I was just thinking, I'm so excited about that, to try it out for myself. Because I try and treat myself like an athlete. Even if I'm not playing in the games, you are. Because to me, I'm trying to operate at that mindset, that level, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. And I love that. So I guess where did that come from? Was that this idea of, you know, as you're thinking about tennis and thinking about beyond tennis, like where did that come from?

A (104:07)

I was always trying to think beyond tennis, you know, well, particularly in the last, let's say 12 to 15 years of my career, my life, I mean, because I was hearing early on from some other, not just tennis players, established tennis players who were retired and shared their experience of post career with me, but also other athletes and how, you know, the struggles they had mentally and particularly the struggles that they had if they have not prepared themselves for that transition. I believe that in some way you cannot fully prepare yourself for that transition mentally. Like it's going to be a sad day for me when I leave tennis and it's going to be very emotional and I know that. But what I'm talking about is basically the adrenaline that also needs to be filtered or re channeled somewhere. And I know that I will play sports for the rest of my life because I love sports and being active is essential. But also I feel like you need a challenge. Tennis has consumed most of my life and that's what I know how to do best. But I have very broad interest in a lot of different things and the industry or the sphere of life, which is called health, wellness and well being is my biggest passion. And it's very broad ecosystem or field if you want, as you know, because you're part of it. But it has been my passion for 15 plus years. And you know, always imagine the world where most of the people will take care of themselves, of how they hydrate, how they eat, exercise, how they manage their sleep, just the healthier world. And of course it's hard to change everything at the same time. And it of course takes a lot of different time because the planet is big and there's a lot of people. But taking small steps is very valuable and it has its effect. So hydration is something that was always super important for me as a professional athlete. And I noticed that people who live everyday life but not only them, but also athletes don't really understand the importance of hydration and don't really understand maybe how to fully hydrate themselves on a cellular level. Because when we talk about hydration, obviously, first thing that comes to your mind is drink water, right? We drink water. We have to. We wouldn't survive a day without water, so that's normal. But then we also have all these other ingredients and vitamins and minerals and things that we're trying to take, whether it's through supplementation, whether it's through food. Obviously, if you can get everything through food, it's the best. Brian Johnson, I saw the other day, 100 whatever tablets that he's taking. I mean, I don't know how he does it. I mean, amazing. But I don't think I would be able to drink, and I don't want to drink that many tablets. I do have supplementation myself, but I prefer trying to take everything through food. But it's difficult because our soil is depleted. The food that we are getting is most of the time comes from the other remote side of the world. Travels lost its nutrients and it's hard. We have a polluted air, polluted water, polluted soil. All of these things play an important role in the inflammatory processes in our body or how we ingest certain ingredients and substances that are necessary for optimal health. So going back to the hydration, I think hydration is probably the easiest step towards that healthier diet or healthier life. And it's something that we cannot go without on a daily basis. And something that is easy as breathing, that's something that everybody can do. Diet changes are something that is more challenging, I think, for people. And there are hundreds of different diets. And I don't want to get into it because everyone has their preference, but I think hydration is probably something that we will all agree with. So since 2017 or 18, I've been working on this project and I've been thinking, you know, and I didn't want to come out. I could have come out. I've worked with few different people and I finally then agreed to come out on the market with. It's basically a wellness brand called Sila. And one of the. Well, the first product that we come out with is hydration, but we have magnesium. We are working on our sleep formula, nootropic formula, gut formula. So we're going to have a line of different products, and I'm doing that. My partner in that is actually my best friend, Mark Stiletano, who is also very, very he Used to play tennis. And we know each other since we were teenagers and very, very passionate guy about, you know, wellness and hydration and healthy lifestyle. So I found that we are very synergetic in our mission and vision. And he had something similar in his life that he wanted to do. And he said, let's join forces and do it together. So we just recently started, we're very quietly kind of as a soft launch because I don't want this product or this brand to be just one of the many, many out there. And when I say that, I mean that every ingredient that is in every of the product needs to be 100% best quality that is out there. But I'm very passionate about this because it's a kind of a continuation of my passion, of my story, of my journey. It's what I love, it's what I drink on a daily basis. My kids drink it, my wife, everybody. And so I'm always looking for new ways or best supplements or things that can improve my performance, that can improve my performance. Not just on the tennis court, but also in life. Life for me to have more clarity, more energy, better sleep and stuff like this. So I decided to do something on my own because the supplements out there that I was trying, there are some good ones, but I was not fully satisfied. So I try to kind of take the means in my hands and control the process from A to Z. It's the way I am, it's how I do things. And so hopefully people will like it. I don't know, you know, it's got to be interesting journey that we are embarking on. And other than that, I have another very interesting project. It's called Regenesis pod that I want to get you in that pod. It's been also six years that we're working on that and we're launching later this year. And that pod is like a capsule, you know, like one of those sleeping capsules that you have in an airport. So about 12, 13 years ago, I was in Dubai airport and I was in business class lounge. And I was like, look at me, you know, I'm so lucky to be here and to be able to have a bed or have this sleeping pod or something like that. But 99% of the people, they're on layovers, they're in transit, they're sleeping on the floor in uncomfortable chairs and stuff. So felt like, how cool would it be if on the airport we would have these pods where people will go in and out not only to nap and sleep, but to go in and out, and the shortest amount of time, whether it's 8, 10, 15, 20 minutes, and feel refreshed and feel re energized, they can reset their system and recharge the batteries and go on with their day. And by that time I was already traveling with an additional suitcase of gadgets of near infrared, far infrared pulse, electromagnetic frequency, different plates, board, you name it. I mean, essential oils, this, that, light therapies, vibrational frequencies, sounds, everything. Everything that is out there in the market that I find amusing and interesting, I take it, I try it, I try to implement it. So I'm still traveling with these gadgets and so I said, okay. So I partner up with my partner Tav Keen, who is Australian and, and lives in Bali. And so we connected and then he had also some similar thoughts. And then we're like, okay, can we do this pod where I would have all these gadgets incorporated in one multisensory device where they don't interfere with each other, but they complement each other. So when you go in, you are like in a Faraday cage. You're protected from harmful radiation of the towers, the Wi Fi, the 5Gs, et cetera. And you are just giving your cells a rest and recharging and then being stimulated with all these things. Would it be possible? And so four or five years of R and D and we finally created it. So it's quite an exclusive, I would say product because it's very expensive, it's big, it's not like a hydration drink. But my dream is to have that in every airport. It started like that. But then of course, the corporate wellness is a big world as well. The corporations, I mean people who work 9 to 5, 9 to 8, they're staying all day seated, their posture, all these things are affected. They don't have the ability to ground their feet and be in the nature and stuff. It's always this fast paced, modern lifestyle on the go, on the go. Give me a quick fix. I'm eating my lunch in the car on the go. So I understand, I'm not judging, I understand we're all part of that world. So that's why I kind of wanted to create in a way, even though I don't like that term, a healthy quick fix to a modern, fast paced lifestyle. Men or women that live and don't have time, they come back home, they're super tired, exhausted, and they have kids, they have the spouse, they have everything happening and they're like, oh my God, I'm sore, I'm this I'm depleted, I'm not sleeping well, et cetera. So it's quite complex. But this could be, and I hope it will. I mean, again, I'm biased. And we've been doing, I mean, hundreds or maybe even thousands of people have done it trials, and the results are incredible. We're doing a scientific study now, a human study, in two universities in United States with a pod, and so can't wait to see the results of that and see how it rolls. So I'm very passionate about it. These are some, you know, I have a few other projects that I'm very involved in, but I like it because it's in my alley. You know, it's in the area of life that I'm not only passionate about, but that I feel like I have experience in knowledge to some extent. And of course, I surround myself with people who are more qualified and knowledgeable about than me in that space. And then we develop it together. And I feel like. Like you trying to make other people feel better, whether it's mentally or physically, through supplements, through this pod, through this podcast, through talking, through sharing the journey, sharing maybe some hacks and techniques and stuff that they can do. In the end of the day, that's actually what drives me. And I feel like it drives you a lot because it gives the purpose on purpose. It gives you purpose in your life. It's not like, only about yourself and what you do and the achievements and the fame and money and everything. It's really about how you make your mark in the world. What's the legacy? What do you leave behind? How do people benefit from you and what you say, what you do, what you create. So that's a kind of a driving force. One of the best psychologists that I work with and one of the most impressive and intelligent people that I ever met in my life, his name is Dr. Jim Lehrer, and he was one of the founders of Human Performance Institute, HPI in Florida. And we worked for a few years, and he has this. Obviously, one of the most important questions is, what would you like to have written on your tombstone? And would you like people to list your achievements, or is it something else? How would you like people to remember you, you know, but deeply think about that? And then we would go through a process of writing things down and really kind of deconstructing my personality, my life, what I'm living in the given moment and how I see the future self and how I see the future of the world and whether I feel like I strongly believe that I can make that impact. So I feel this is. Everything that I do is related to that source of the purpose and of the light that is in the center of everything. Because, you know, I've also turned down many different companies in my life that wanted me to be an ambassador, because I just feel it's very hard for me to represent and advocate something to millions of people that I really don't believe in. I would never drink that drink or eat that or whatever it is. I just. If it's not aligned with my philosophy, my mindset, it's not going to work. And I've selected that journey, which is for my managers, and not the ideal one. But at the same time, I'm calm in my heart, in my mind, because I know that I'm doing something that is right.

B (117:56)

I love that, and I'm so excited to try it, and I'm. I'm grateful that you've said that and that authenticity is there, because I personally am someone who wants to try new things and wants to know what the best are using. Especially when you're creating it yourself. You're not putting your name to it. It's not something, you know, it's. You're actually saying, no, this is what I use. This is what I'm doing. I think that's important. So, Novak, we end every interview with the final five. These have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

A (118:27)

Okay.

B (118:28)

And then I may ask you to go over. But, Novak Djokovic, these are your final five. The first is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

A (118:38)

Live the life in the present moment, learn from the past, live in the present, and work for the future.

B (118:46)

What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

A (118:51)

The worst advice? If someone does good to you, do 10 times better to them. But if someone does better, you, do 10 times worse to them.

B (119:04)

Oh, that second part is not good advice.

A (119:06)

Exactly.

B (119:07)

That first part's beautiful.

A (119:08)

Yeah. But the second, it. The first part is connected to the second one. That's why I said it. But second one I don't like.

B (119:15)

Yeah. I think it's almost like if someone does good to you, do 10 times better to them. And if someone does bad to you, do 10 times less to them. Like, just right, you know, that would be good advice. That's a good answer. I've never had that. Yeah, that's really, really good. What's the power of having had such a beautiful relationship with your partner, your wife, Yelena? I can't do an interview without Giving her credit and talking about her, because I feel like a good man needs a good woman, and it's such a big, important part of all of our lives.

A (119:47)

Yes. Yes. Thank you for asking me about my wife. And we've been together since my age 18. She was 19, so very long time. We dated. We went through different stages in different phases. And basically, she's the only very serious relationship that I've ever had. And, yeah, she's my rock. She's someone that has seen the worst and the best sides of me. She has seen my evolution. She has challenged me on every level. We have grown together, and we have two beautiful children, and we still keep on growing and evolving. We have challenges, as I guess every couple has, but I think we have an amazing base and foundation, and we always. When we have challenging times in relationship, we revert to that, and we address why we are together, who we are as people and how we've grown. And the future that we see is the future that we see together. And so whatever we try to do, we try to do it together. So all of the projects that I told you about and everything, she's been involved. And it's very important for me to always hear her thoughts, her feedback, because she's probably the only one in my life, other than my brothers or my one or two friends, that is able to tell me things that I maybe don't want to hear and really challenge my ideas, challenge my thoughts, challenge my decisions. And oftentimes, her instinct or intuition was correct and mine wasn't. I have to say that. But no, jokes aside, she has been an incredible partner in this whole journey, professionally, privately, emotionally, romantically, as a parent as well. So I still play at this level because also of the support that she's giving to our family back home. And I remind myself of that a lot. You know, I've grown up with two younger brothers in a very small apartment, and I've seen what my mother did and what she does for a family and what women do to keep families together and intact and bring this incredibly powerful energy to our life that gives us wings and that gives us a springboard for everything that we're doing outside of home is just something that one will never comprehend unless one experiences that family life. So we've been through all these different journeys together as, you know, kids, teenagers, and, you know, getting more serious in relationship and her being my fiance and then getting married and then having two kids. So, yeah, it's hard to express everything that I. That I feel is kind of Love and gratitude towards her and what she means to me in my life.

B (122:54)

Yeah, I feel like when I've met her or interacted with her, she's always just operating such a high frequency and a high vibration. Like she has that natural energy. And it's good for. I feel like that about my wife. And I feel like it's good to have someone in your life who's that close to you that can call you out and check on you and, you know, realign you. I know I value that deeply and my wife does the same for me. Question four is too, as well. What was your worst day on court and what was your best day on court?

A (123:24)

I would say winning a gold medal for my country in Olympics in Paris 2024 would be the best moment. Even better. And it surpasses me winning Wimbledon for the first time or winning Davis cup with my country and stuff like that. I've been incredibly fortunate to experience some of the. I mean, the greatest achievements in our sport. But that one, just because I was 37 at the time. I mean, 37 years old, and maybe my last shot at the real shot at the gold medal and, and everything, how it happened and how it unfolded, it's just, you know, that's the moment. And the worst would be, I would say, actually also Olympics. When I lost the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, I was struggling a little bit with this injury of the wrist and didn't know if I'm going to play or not. I played. I lost to Del Potro, dear friend, and went on to win a silver medal for his country. I lost him first round in a tight two setter and two tiebreaks. And it was super emotional because Olympics playing for my country, being supported by the whole stadium, being probably at the peak of my career overall, being on a run and on the role, winning four Slams. I held all four Slams at that point. I was just the most dominant I've ever was in my career. Practicing several days, I was like, I cannot miss a ball. Like, this is my time. There's no chance anybody beats me here. And then one day or two days before the match, I start to feel something in the wrist, start to doubt myself. I started questioning whether I should go out or not. I have a very tough draw. I draw. Del Potro is very tough draw. First round and I lose. Close match. As I said, he goes on to win silver medal. But that was the moment where I just felt like my whole world collapsed. Yeah, very, very tough. So it's interesting now that you asked me because I never thought about it. But best moment and worst moment happened in Olympic games because Olympic games happen every four years. They're so rare. And all the other tournaments you have a chance every year to win, but here every four years. So you gotta be at your top to be able to get a medal.

B (126:02)

That's cool, that's good memories and I'm glad you got the gold last year.

A (126:06)

Yeah, I appreciate it.

B (126:08)

Toughest opponent mentally and toughest opponent physically.

A (126:11)

Toughest opponent mentally. By far, myself.

B (126:15)

I like that's a good answer.

A (126:17)

By far. And the toughest opponent physically. Nadal. Yeah, for sure. I mean the battles with him were just grueling. The longest grand slam finals in history in finals of 2012 Australian Open. 5 hours and 53 minutes, I think it was so almost six hours of grueling battle. I won that match in the fifth set. 75 or 7 6. It was just, I remember the closing ceremony. After that we were standing and listening to the sponsors speeches and stuff and we at one point we both simultaneously bent down and held our knees and I could see his legs shaking. My legs are shaking. And then someone saw that and brought us two chairs and brought us water and we had to sit down and sit for the rest of the ceremony because we were just. I went into the locker room, took out my shoes and I had blood on all over the socks, on both socks. And I didn't feel it. Obviously in this adrenaline rush on the court, you just go through the pain, you go through everything and then you like once you cool off and your muscles are cold and everything, it's just like devastating feeling, you can't walk. But you know, obviously more satisfying when you win such battle. But I had incredible matches against Nadal, clay court matches. I mean clay is the slowest surface and most physical sport. And playing him on clay in Roland Garros is probably the top challenge you can have in the history of our sport. Because he was getting to every ball and I was also very, very good defender and always and you know, very physically fit. So we would like push each other to the very limit physically and mentally. You know, it was at times almost like an out of body experience for both of us where we would just, everything would flow, we would play incredible points that would last so long, exchanges and you know when you finish a match then you realize, oh my God, it's almost like you were not playing it. It was like something took over and just all your talents, the skill, everything was on a scale or on the platform. That we created. It's like almost like an artist when he goes on a canvas into his own and just starts drawing some beautiful. That's how it felt many times when I played him. And now when I talk about it and reflect, it gives me a great sense of pride and satisfaction that I've had. The rivalry that I had with him and that, you know, I feel like not only we both made history of the sport, but we both made each other better. And I feel like we brought so many incredible emotions to people who were watching us play.

B (129:13)

Yeah, you can still watch those. I love TikTok now because you've got the highlights. Yeah, yeah, you can just watch those highlights for ages. Like, all the best points. And of course, people compile it and you just think, wow, it's. It is. It's poetry in motion to just watch, you know, two. Two artists play together. Fifth and final question. We asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show. Not in the beginning, though. So these. All these rituals came afterwards. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

A (129:44)

Hard to pick one thing. But I would probably create a law without punish greatly. Someone who just destroys our planet, throws trash in the nature or in the water, or disrespects our mother nature and the planet we live on. Maybe it would be a law where you would have to say hello to every person that walks by, just trying to be more kind, more gracious, a little bit more compassionate. We need a little bit more empathy and compassion in this planet. Because when we are as people, closer to each other and we are less divided, I feel like then, as a positive consequence of that, we will take care of the planet we are living on.

B (130:34)

Yeah. Well, Novak, as always, I'm inspired to see what you do continue to do in tennis, what you'll do beyond tennis. And last time we covered your story of how you became and who you were and where you started. And I feel like today we've added another beautiful chapter onto that growth. And I'm so grateful to you for showing up as you do always, for living as intentionally as you always do. I still remember we finished the last interview, and even today, my team was saying it after the interview. Last time you spent an hour talking to my team at that time, and even today when you were coming in, everyone's just, oh, my God, he's so nice. He's so kind. It's just. It's amazing to see someone who's truly, truly, truly the goat of their sport to be that humble, grounded, kind at all times with everyone. It's truly admirable and all the truly best people have it. So, you know, thank you, Jay, for.

A (131:32)

Having me and thank you for spending, you know, two hours with me and I, you know, time flew by. I mean, it's incredible and I feel like the connection and the energy was amazing, as it always is with you. And I hope that for the next chapter we won't need to wait another five years.

B (131:50)

I agree. Let's promise each other.

A (131:53)

We promise each other. We gotta meet more frequent because I think we are both expanding and evolving and doing incredible things in our own fields and so many interesting things to talk about and to share. So for sure, I'd love to be your guest a little bit more frequently and not wait for a long time. But thank you for having me and allowing me to share my story.

B (132:17)

Thank you, man. Anyone who's been listening and watching, let me and Novak know. Tag us on Instagram on TikTok. Let us know what's resonating with you, what's connecting with you. If there was a message, a game, a point, something that Novak shared with you that is going to stay with you for some time, let us know. I love seeing what has an impact on you. That's the goal of these conversations. I want to see what shifts you make, the habits you change and the new goals that you achieve because of this conversation. A big thank you to Novak again and we'll see you on the next one. If you love this episode, you will love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose.

A (132:57)

Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve and parents and coaches have become more directive in trying to tell them how to behave versus teaching them how to behave.

B (133:08)

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