Texas’ Safety Battle May Already Be OVER — Derek Williams Is Pulling Away? | Steve Sarkisian

Summary

On Texas Football — Podcast Summary

Episode: Texas’ Safety Battle May Already Be OVER — Derek Williams Is Pulling Away?

Host: Jeff Howell
Guests: CJ Vogel, Rod Babers
Date: August 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of "On Texas Football" dives deep into the evolving Texas Longhorns secondary—the positional battles at safety and cornerback—with a special focus on Derrick Williams' emergence and the ongoing shakeup in the defensive backfield during camp. Host Jeff Howell, joined by CJ Vogel and Longhorn alum Rod Babers, provides insider analysis on player development, coaching changes, and the possible trajectory of Texas’ defense heading into the new season.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cornerback Competition: Cade Phillips vs. Bo Masco

• Bo Masco emerges as the lead corner ("cornerback one") thanks to his veteran savvy and experience playing in Mark Orfe’s press-man system at Rutgers (05:59).
• Cade Phillips is viewed as "the other corner," a talented but less consistent option who needs to prove reliability as the season approaches:
  • “The ceiling is extremely high for this young man. And the question is, is he the other corner?” — Rod Babers (03:25)
  • Phillips will be tested more by opposing offenses, much like Rod was in his own playing days, and is urged to embrace the challenge.
• Developmental challenge: Phillips faces elite receivers in practice (Cam Coleman, Ryan Wingo, Emmett Moseley, Jermaine Bishop), which is seen as instrumental for his growth (06:40, 07:27).

2. The Evolving Battle at Safety: Derrick Williams Pulling Away

• Derrick Williams has established himself as the frontrunner at safety next to Jelani McDonald:
  • “Derrick Williams has widened his gap between where he stands today and the guys chasing after him. That would include a Kobe Black, that would include a Jonah Williams.” — CJ Vogel (08:27)
  • His physicality in camp has turned heads (15:30).
• Kobe Black & Jonah Williams:
  • Both are now practicing primarily at safety and adapting to new demands.
  • Kobe Black’s learning curve focuses on transitioning to safety at the college level.
  • Jonah Williams’ main hurdle is regaining football fitness and health after limited snaps last year.

Notable Quote on Derrick Williams:

“Circling back to Derrick Williams, [he’s] very physical to start camp. I think that is something that everybody is looking at saying, yes, yes, yes.”
— CJ Vogel (15:35)

3. Jonah Williams, Kobe Black & Rate of Development

• Rod Babers bets on Jonah Williams—if he can stay healthy—to take the biggest leap as the season progresses due to his high ceiling and rare athletic traits (12:33).
  • “If I’m betting on somebody to take a huge leap, I’m gonna bet on that guy… especially in a Muschamp scheme where he’s versatile, can come down in the box, and he’s got ball skills—like beautiful ball skills.” — Rod Babers (12:33)
• Importance of “stacking days”—consistency and getting reps will be vital for both Black and Williams’s progression.

4. “Forgotten Men” of the Secondary: Warren Roberson & Wardell Mack

• Warren Roberson makes practice headlines:
  • Featured in a UT-released clip intercepting Cam Coleman during a red zone drill, drawing comparisons to his strong bowl game performance (19:12).
  • “Maybe the scheme change is just kind of what Warren Roberson needed to kind of reignite his career and get him back on a path where maybe he contributes more than we thought he would.” — Jeff Howell (21:00)
  • Rod highlights Roberson's "catch-up and recovery speed" and physicality as assets suited for the new aggressive, simplified scheme under Will Muschamp (21:19).
• Wardell Mack (at nickel) and Xavier Phils deserve mention for their flexibility—if Texas can secure depth at nickel, they could unlock schematic flexibility elsewhere, especially with Grayson Littleton’s potential to move between positions.

Notable Quote:

“If Texas can really find a solid second option at the nickel spot, I think it raises the ceiling of that secondary more than anything else in… this room.”
— CJ Vogel (19:55)

5. Impact of the New Coaching Staff and Scheme

• With Will Muschamp and an altered defensive philosophy, there’s renewed opportunity and “clean slates” for players like Roberson.
• The defense is expected to play more man-to-man coverage, which favors aggressive, athletic DBs and could accelerate the rise of physically gifted but previously inconsistent players.

6. Practice Environment as a Crucible

• Texas’ loaded receiver group challenges the DBs in practice every day, echoing the legendary 2019 LSU practices and helping accelerate player development:
  • “You will not see many better receivers or receiving groups in all of college football than what Texas is trotting out every single day.” — CJ Vogel (06:40)
  • “Those are actually more telling reps than the game reps.” — Rod Babers (07:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rod Babers on Cade Phillips' challenge:
  “If both Masco established himself as the top corner, then K. Phillips is going to be the other guy who's going to be a lot more action.” (04:20)
• CJ Vogel on practice competitiveness:
  “You will not see many better receivers or receiving groups in all of college football than what Texas is trotting out every single day.” (06:40)
• Rod on Warren Roberson’s upside:
  “He's got the catch-up and recovery speed... He had his best game I've ever seen him play in the Michigan game. So is he using that momentum, that confidence in the offseason just to help him blossom as a player…?” (21:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:25] Rod Babers discusses Cade Phillips’ potential and the expectations of being “the other corner.”
• [05:59] CJ Vogel analyzes why Bo Masco currently leads the cornerback race.
• [06:40] Practice as a proving ground against elite receivers; parallels to NFL-caliber development.
• [08:27] CJ Vogel updates the current pecking order at safety, with Derrick Williams pulling ahead.
• [12:33] Rod Babers predicts Jonah Williams as the most likely to make a midseason leap if healthy.
• [15:35] CJ Vogel emphasizes Derrick Williams’ impressive physicality in camp.
• [19:12] CJ Vogel references Warren Roberson’s interception in practice and his potential.
• [21:19] Rod Babers details Roberson's physical skill set and how scheme fit could finally unlock his potential.

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Conclusion

The episode paints a detailed, optimistic portrait of the Texas secondary’s evolving landscape:

• Derrick Williams has likely seized a starting safety job, while Cade Phillips looks to solidify his consistency at corner.
• Players like Bo Masco, Jonah Williams, and Warren Roberson are vital to the depth, versatility, and future of the backfield.
• The new coaching staff, talent-rich practice environment, and scheme changes have opened opportunities for fresh faces and possible late bloomers.
• As Texas heads toward its first scrimmage, stacking successful practices and seizing the momentum will separate contributors from depth chart fillers in one of the most talent-rich DB groups in the nation.

Transcript

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[Jeff Howell]

Texas Camp keeps rolling start over 32 Texas camp rolling right along and we've got some intel on the secondary for the Longhorns here in this latest edition of On Texas Football. I'm Jeff how, joined by CJ Vogel and Lifetime Longhorn Rod Babers. Want to thank Prize Picks and Poncho for sponsoring this edition of On Texas Football. Guys, let's go to the secondary and there's a lot of moving parts right now is Will Muschamp and Blake Gideon and Mark Orfe even Sark trying to get all that figured out. Who's going to start what the pecking order is. There's a couple of guys I want to highlight and CJ has a really in depth article on the secondary over on texas football.com there's a few Guys, I wanted to highlight. Rod, I want to start with you because it starts with Cade Phillips. Now we've, it seemed like at least I felt like the staff really challenged him in the spring and it, I think it was in our, our all staff chat on Tuesday. Somebody asked a question, hey, who's the, who's the one guy that, of the second year guys that, that needs to take a major step or you expect to take a major step? I said, I think it needs to be Cade Phillips because if you've got questions at safety man, corner needs to be a spot that solidified. And Rod, you, you've worked with Cade Phillips in the All American bowl combine setting. So you've been on the field with him. The tools are all there for him to be elite. It's just a matter of him putting it together and doing it.

[Rod Babers]

Consistent, the perfect word there. You ended it with right consistency, a baseline of consistency for young players. I remember when that was the case for myself. You want that baseline and you're developing in practice. Football's a sport. You practice when you play. So that, that, that consistent baseline of, oh, you, he, he practices like an all conference player every practice, right? Oh, he practices like an all American player every practice. That's the point you want to get to. And for Kate Phillips, that may not be the case yet. You're still probably flashing and then maybe there are some, some inconsistencies in this game. But the ceiling is extremely high for this young man. And the question is, you know, is he the other corner? Right. I, I, when I played, I was the other corner most of the time. And people like, what's the other corner? No, the other corner is that guy opposite Quentin jammer, the top 10 pick in the NFL draft. Oh, the guy opposite Nathan Basher, the all time leader, co leader in interceptions in the history of Texas in a career. Right. If you're, you got an offensive game plan, you're probably gonna lean toward throwing away from those guys. Like, I'm not throwing that Quentin Jammer. All right, so I'm, I'm gonna be the guy you're throwing up. So who's the, Is it both? If both Masco established himself as the top corner, then K. Phillips is going to be the other guy who's going to be a lot more action. All right? Because it just makes sense where it's like, no, no, no. It's a path of least resistance. So I enjoyed that. That's why I'm top 5 all time in PBUS at Texas. Probably should be Caught more of those and probably would have got drafted higher. But K. Phillips stands to get tested. Potentially a lot more. If you never brought in a Bo mask or a guy who's a veteran, who may have more consistency in his game as a veteran player, then teams will go all, what if we, if we wanna, we got something dialed up, let's dial it up against the young buck over there. So that's why I, I hope the inconsistency in his game is something that he, he continues to work on and gets more of that closer to game time against Ohio State because he might be the guy here. They tried Grayson Littleton last season because what, he's a true freshman. Inexperienced. They know Bo Masco. Bo Masco had his best game of the season last season against Ohio State. So I was like, all right, who are we going to test in that secondary? Grayson Lewis and tested him. That didn't work out well for us. What about Bomasco? Hell, man, that guy had a great game against us. Hey, Tri. Kate Phillips. Let's do it. He's gonna be the other corner potentially. So you better get your mind right.

[Jeff Howell]

Yeah. C.J. based on your reporting, you feel like that scenario that Rod laid out, where Bo Masco is the de facto top corner right now and Kate Phillips is, for lack of better term, that other corner. Do you feel like that's where things stand headed into the first scrimmage?

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[CJ Vogel]

I, I do think that right now Bomasco holds a lead as the cornerback one. Now, that doesn't mean that Kate Phillips is a bad football player. It's just, hey, there's a veteran right now that's familiar with Mark Orfe, right, has played the bump and run coverage and press man that he did at Rutgers. That that translates, right? That's something that he didn't necessarily need an acclimation period to get used to what the scheme in coverage design is asking of him. And one other thing, look, that doesn't mean Cade Phillips is out of luck here, right? Johnny Barron was the corner. Malik Muhammad was the other guy. Malik, he still ended up having a three and done career at the University of Texas. So the one other thing I'll add to this is, boy, if you're a cornerback at the University of Texas, whether your practice is pristine, whether your practice is tape that you end up throwing away, you're getting better going against a Cam Coleman, Orion Wingo and Emmett Moseley or Jermaine Bishop, a Sterling Burkholster, Kali Clockett. I mean that you will not See many better receivers or receiving groups in all of college football than what Texas is trotting out every single day. So to hear about the bumps and the bruises, that is teak, that is learning experience, that is humility. All of which isn't fun at the time, but it will certainly grow into the development of corners that we've seen time and time again.

[Rod Babers]

Yeah, that's a great point though, Jeff. Remember the clips that we used to see of like that 2019 LSU team where scouts were more obsessed with watching the practice film because they were like, oh no, we got first round is going up against first rounds in practice. Those are actually more telling reps than the game reps, where they may be one of against the guy that's a late round pick or know a mid round pick. So is this Texas team that kind of talented? That's A great point, C.J. because I remember going up against Roy Williams, those are, those are valuable reps that I can't even quantify. How they must. They meant in my development as a player to face a Roy Williams, you know, three, you know, two, three years in a row.

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[Jeff Howell]

Back in your day, Rod, if you could hang with Roy Williams and Sloan Thomas and BJ Johnson Monday through Friday, Saturday, in some cases, gonna be a lot easier than practice. So that's kind of what Texas has right now with this beefed up practice roster. Guys, let's go to safety and CJ2 guys that we get a lot of questions about that. I think we just kind of need a status update on Kobe Black and Jonah Williams. Where are they right now?

[CJ Vogel]

Yeah, look, both on the field, both practicing at safety almost exclusively there. I'll say this because we get a lot of questions about Jelani McDonald, who's going to be next to him. It sounds like so far, and again, it's only been one truly padded practice. Derrick Williams has widened his gap between where he stands today in the guys chasing after him. And that would include a Kobe Black. That would include a Jonah Williams. Right now, I would say for both guys there's an. A learning curve that is undergoing at the moment. Right. For Kobe Black, it is playing the safety position at the college level. For Jonah Williams, it's. Well, it's being healthy, being on the field and seeing the speed of the game at the college level.

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[CJ Vogel]

Because it's been a minute, no spring. We didn't see him for more than what, about 65 or 70 snaps in 20, 25, all of which basically in garbage time. So understanding what a Jermaine Bishop a Ryan lingo looks like in terms of, you know, pursuit angles, you know, diagnosing where the ball will be and anticipating what route to take is kind of something that both guys are learning on the fly and a reason why, at least right now I look at it as you have Jelani, you have Derrick Williams, and then you have the rest of the group that's chasing behind for safety. 3, 4, 5.

[Jeff Howell]

Yeah, Rod, between those two guys, you know. And again, the scrimmages are going to tell us a lot in the first ones coming up on Saturday. Which one of these guys do you think at some point this season you're going to expect to see them in a pretty prominent role at safety? Kobe Black or Jonah Williams?

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[Rod Babers]

Oh, that's really good. If I have to predict which one and we saying Jonah Williams stays healthy, is that the year? Sure. Yeah. Okay. Because if that's the case, I'm like, well, that's an easy one. But I want, if I had to pick between those guys, I'll probably go right now with a. I'll go to Jonah Williams. I just think he's had. If you're gonna say he's saying he's staying healthy, a higher player with a higher ceiling overall. And we haven't seen him stay healthy. We haven't seen how. Hell, I don't even know. Last time this dude was like a legit training camp because he always just goes from one sport, you know, to the next sport. So he could benefit tremendously just from the reps in actual training camp. You know, the reps are being healthy for the, for the first time in a long time in football and getting in football shape and then the game slowing down for him as you get more and more of those wrestlers right now. I bet they, I bet games wouldn't fast forward because he just hadn't, he hadn't seen it in a long time. I mean, he just hadn't played football at this level because he hadn't been healthy enough. So if I'm betting on somebody to take a huge leap, I'm gonna bet on that guy that if he's healthy, game slows down for him, his physical frame, he gets in football shape, which I don't know was the last time Jonah Williams was in football shape. Seriously, I mean he just not, not, not anything, you know, it's not a knock on, it's not anything negative but he's a two sport guy. So getting him acclimated to this sport and getting him comfortable in it, I'm gonna say, you know, you talking about somebody mid season that might just take a leap for you, that be the guy I bet on, especially in a must champ scheme where he's versatile, can come down in the box, and he's got ball skills like beautiful ball skills. So, all right, you made me do it, so I did it.

[Jeff Howell]

Cj, we talked about the intrigue with Jonah a lot. And to Rod's point, Rod's always used that phrase, rate of development. How quickly, once a guy kind of establishes the baseline, how quickly can he then ascend toward his ceiling? That's the thing about Jonah. We don't know where the baseline is because he hasn't been on the practice field enough to establish a baseline.

[CJ Vogel]

Yeah. And that's why you have to go back to his high school tape and you see the high school tape. And that's why we talk about a ceiling. That's why we talk about all the potential that comes with a Jonah Williams. Because again, Jelani McDonald laid it out for us. He's a 6 foot 3 safety at 210 pounds that runs like the wind. And the ball skills that Rod just mentioned, you combine that all together and you say, yeah, hey, man, that sounds like an ideal guy for playing center field of your defense. Right. I know that there's a baseball connection in there, but point being, now it's about physicality. Right now it's about sustaining down to down play consistently over day to day in the heat of Austin that you can prove to Blake Gideon and prove to Will Muschamp at that spot should be yours. And right now, look, one padded practice in. We'll see how that momentum carries. Right. This upcoming Saturday in the first scrimmage is going to be really important for him. And I will say that circling back to Derrick Williams, very physical to start camp. I think that is something that everybody is looking at saying, yes, yes, yes.

[Jeff Howell]

I think for all the guys we talked about there for K. Phillips, Kobe Black and Jonah Williams at this point, just try to stack as many days on top of each other as you can as you work toward these scrimmages. All right, got a couple more guys in the secondary we want to talk about. But before we do that, let's pause real quick so we can thank our newest sponsor here at on Texas football and give a shout out to Poncho. Poncho makes the ultimate performance shirts for the outdoors. It'll be your Go to shirt for all seasons. It'll be the best looking, most comfortable shirt you'll ever wear. And now they've got their Game Day collection and Poncho has their Natty Back Guarantee. If you buy your team's Game day shirt between August 2 through August 16, you're covered by Poncho's natty back guarantee, which means if your team wins the College Football National Championship, Poncho will give you a full refund on your purchase and you get to keep the shirt. Poncho now has Texas fans covered for the college football season and we've got a special for the On Texas Football fam. Go to ponchooutdoors.com ontexas and enter your email to get $10 off and free shipping on your first order. That's P O N C H O outdoors.com ontexas just head over there, drop in your email and you're gonna get $10 off and free shipping on your first order. And once you try one, it's not going to be long before you've got a closet full of Poncho shirts. You're going to love how they feel in the Texas heat. You got extra pockets and zippers to store your stuff. They've got short sleeve shirts, long sleeve shirts. Their sizes range from small all the way to 3xL. If you haven't dialed in your size yet, it's a breeze to send it back and swap it out for another one. Again, get $10 off your first order and free shipping at ponchooutdoors.com ontexas when you enter your email. Thanks to the five folks at Poncho for sponsoring On Texas football. And don't forget to check out their game day collection and participate in their Natty back guarantee.

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[Jeff Howell]

All right, fellas. The last two guys I wanted to talk about, you know, kind of like when we talk about running backs and some other positions this week, there's kind of that group of guys that I don't. Kind of out of sight, out of mind. Maybe you've forgotten about him, but CJ he had some nuggets on Warren Roberson and Wardell Mack. I think these were guys at one time that maybe we thought, hey, could they ascend up the depth chart and maybe you feel like do they get recruited over both in the Portland from the high school ranks, but they're both still, still hanging around making plays on the practice field.

[CJ Vogel]

Yeah, of course Texas released the clip was it Wednesday morning of Warren Roberson coming away with an interception in the end zone on the pass intended for Cam to Coleman? You sit there and say, hey, I, I like the sights of that, right? That looks like something that resembled a lot of what we saw in the mid the bowl game against Michigan. Right? So if that man coverage, that switch to man coverage brings out the best in anyone, I'm looking at Warren Roberson as someone that look, he, he's very quick, twitched, he can move well. He played this type of scheme in high school where it's just very in your face, very physical up the line scrimmage. I wonder what else Texas can get out of them now. Wardell Mack at nickel and I'll include Xavier Phils and me in this conversation as well. If Texas can really find a solid second option at the nickel spot, I think it raises the ceiling of that secondary more than anything else in the state in, in this room. And I say that Jeff, because of what we've talked about pretty often, what that allows you to do with a Grayson Littleton, someone the staff loves, someone that we all really enjoyed the tape up during his freshman year. If safety becomes an issue, knowing that that nickel spot is secured allows you to spin a Grayson Littleton to the outside corner spot, potentially back deep to play safety. It allows you to use him as A jack of all trades in that safety room or in that secondary room because he is, without any question, one of the five best that you have.

[Jeff Howell]

Yeah.

[CJ Vogel]

Where is his greatest impact? It might be anywhere.

[Jeff Howell]

Yeah, no doubt. And I'm a big proponent of trying him at safety. But you, like you said, you need nickel options to do that. But Rod, I want to close out talking about Warren Roberson because we talk about, you know, any time there's a coordinator change, everybody kind of gets a clean slate and there are no preconceived notions. And for Warren Roberson, SCJ said maybe, and I'm not saying Warren Roberson is going to start, but there's a reason this staff felt comfortable enough to move Kobe Black to safety and try that out. Maybe the scheme change is just kind of what Warren Roberson needed to kind of reignite his career and get him back on a path where maybe he contributes more than we thought he would.

[Rod Babers]

You know what, it's crazy because, you know, he's a physical player. Mus champ loves that. Must have. Loves a physical guy. He's had some, you know, kind of mental lapses, I guess if you want to say that on the field. Most of those on specialties, most people try to apply that to the actual time that he was on the field playing cornerback. But, but analytically, if you're looking at his like PFF grades and like passer rating allowed and yards per snap allowed, he's actually one of the leaders. Some, you know, he has some of the best and most impressive numbers of any cornerback in the sec. I know that sounds crazy, but it's true. I've shared those numbers before. And you talk about, you know, C.J. talk about how simplified now the scheme is if they're going to play more, man, which we all believe they're going to play more, man. That's the case for Muschamp and, and then for him, well, then it takes away a lot of the, the need for route diagnosis and for, you know, pre snap processing and, you know, looking at. And trying to be a football investigator and figure out exactly how a team is trying to attack. He's like, no, you're playing, man coverage. Go up there. Lock that dude down. I was surprised when Ryan Nimble said he was one of the three fastest players on the team. Yeah. And I was like, out of all the guys he mentioned, I was like, that's the one that was like, oh, Roberson's like that. I didn't know he had it like that. So. So he's got the catch up and recovery speed. That's an interesting one because he had his best game that I've ever seen him play that any of us have seen him play in the Michigan game. So is he using that momentum, that confidence in the off season just help him blossom as a player and then the system change simplified things for him. Must champ new scheme, physical player. Did it all come together? The perfect storm to get the best of Ryan Robeson. Damn, I hope so. I hope so.

[Jeff Howell]

We'll see if it happens and we'll keep tracking this Texas secondary as camp marches on. Rod, C.J. thank you guys for the time, the knowledge, the intel, the expertise. As always, big thank you to Matthew behind the scenes for producing it, doing the great job that he does for us at On Texas Football. Thank you to Prize Picks and Poncho for sponsoring this edition of On Texas Football. Just want to remind you, if you're not a member over on texas football.com now is the time to get over to the site and take advantage of our limited time offer for new members. $3 for your first three months of access at ontexas football.com you want articles like the CJ article we just referenced in this video. You want practice intel, anything happening on the 40 acres? We're talking about it over to ontexasfootball.com and again, $3 for your first three months of access. It's all it's going to take for new members. Get locked in, but do not wait very long. This offer will not last forever, so get over to the site and check out everything we've got going on over there. Make sure that you like this video. Make sure you're subscribed to the on Texas Football YouTube channel and make sure you got your notifications set. That way, anytime we go live or drop a video, you're not missing any of our Longhorn coverage or Breaking news for Rod, for cj, for Matthew, for the entire On Texas Football staff, I'm Jeff Howell. Thank you so much for watching and listening. And until next time, you know how

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