“I Can’t Call Sark an Elite Offensive Mind” — Texas’ Biggest Problem in 2026

Summary

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Podcast Summary: On Texas Football

Episode: “I Can’t Call Sark an Elite Offensive Mind” — Texas’ Biggest Problem in 2026

Host: Rod Babers (A) with Co-host CJ Vogel (B)
Date: July 31, 2026

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Overview

This episode delivers a candid and deep-dive conversation about the state of Texas Longhorns football heading into the 2026 season. Longhorn alums and analysts Rod Babers and CJ Vogel field listener questions, discuss historical context, analyze rivalries, and examine the expectations and perceived shortcomings of Head Coach Steve Sarkisian ("Sark"), with particular focus on his offense’s performance in critical game situations. The episode is packed with film analysis, recruiting talk, strategic breakdowns, and fan-centric banter.

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Main Topics & Discussion Points

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1. Historic Texas Rivalries and Sark's Place in Program Lore

• Discussion opens with thoughts on Rod’s vacation in Montana and the Texas connection there, but quickly pivots to football history.
• Sark’s current streak: He’s on the verge of beating both Texas A&M and Oklahoma three consecutive years—something Mac Brown never achieved, which DKR (Darryl K. Royal) managed multiple times in the 20th century.
  • "Maybe he’s ready to put himself in a higher...stratosphere of coaches here at Texas." (A, 07:16)
• CJ points out the expectations of top rival victories at Texas, but notes the rise of the national championship as an ultimate measuring stick.
• Evaluation of current rivals: Both agree Oklahoma presents the tougher challenge than A&M based on talent and trajectory (11:58).

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2. Recruitment, NIL, and the "NFL Model"

• Listener question about Sark’s comments on “clearing cap space” and handling of NIL.
• CJ explains Sark’s adoption of an NFL-like front office approach:
  • "We had to let him go to make room for Cam Coleman or Rasheen Biles or whoever it might have been… That’s exactly what he was talking about." (B, 22:34)
• Rod’s take: Fans may find it harsh, but it’s pragmatic:
  • "That would be...malpractice, considering you’re the head coach at Texas. When you have a way to get a better player and you don’t utilize it…” (A, 24:00)

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3. Defensive Back and Corner Play Analysis

• Super chat asks about Grayson Loton: Should he play nickel or outside corner?
• Rod’s answer:
  • Prefers him as a nickel due to skill set, but thinks the slot is harder and “if you can play slot, you can play outside.”
  • "I think if he can play the slot...he can transition pretty confidently to the outside without much dropoff..." (A, 14:42)
• CJ notes importance of ballhawking and arm length, with implications for how modern offensive sets stress defenses.

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4. Film Study, Football Philosophy, and Coaching Banter

• Rod nerds out on DB techniques, progression reading, and the skill sets needed for man vs. zone coverage.
  • “I preferred man, actually, because...just line me up against that guy, I’m better than that dude. Let’s go...” (A, 28:45)
• CJ highlights the shift towards using condensed sets offensively to create “three-way gos” and stress defensive coverage rules.
• Lengthy discussion on traits for corners to thrive early in college: speed, arm length, hips.

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5. Recruiting Rundown & Player Evaluations

• Landon Williams-Callis: Is he a 4-star or 5-star recruit?
  • “Turn on Landon Williams-Callis’ tape and you’re going to enjoy what you see.” (B, 39:39)
• Lawrence Seymour’s height: Why the concern over a “shorter” O-lineman?
  • CJ: Not typical for a Sark/Flood line, but production/arm length may offset concerns. (34:14)
• Prospect projections: Texas’s coming “cap space” after anticipated NFL departures sets up an aggressive portal season.

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6. Opponent Breakdown & 2026 Season Outlook

• Listener asks for odds of beating Tennessee and LSU:
  • CJ’s take: “If I could split them up, I’d put like an eight and a half on Tennessee... LSU...about a five, five and a half on the confidence scale for me.” (B, 42:00)
  • Rod: “The challenge for Tennessee is Jim Knowles versus Sark... with LSU, it’s Lane Kiffin’s offense against Muschamp’s defense.” (A, 41:00)

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7. The Big Question: Is Sark an Elite Offensive Mind?

• Rod’s major critique (the episode’s core theme):
  • “I can’t claim him to be an elite offensive mind...until he’s elite in the critical moments...post-Bijian, he hasn’t even been a top 25 third down or red zone offense.” (A, 44:50)
• CJ agrees, noting:
  • “We’ve seen the gap between his defense and offense widen over the last three years... it shouldn’t be that way.” (B, 45:18)
• Both emphasize that, despite primo results and talent, the offense underperforms in key situations, especially since the departure of star running backs.

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8. Will Muschamp’s Impact

• Listener asks: How much does Muschamp help Sark on offense?
  • Rod:
    • Muschamp’s aggression could get the offense more early opportunities to play with a lead, amplifying Sark’s strengths as a “script guy.”
    • “I think Sark wants to play with a lead this year... playing with a lead, it puts a lot of pressure on the opposing team.” (A, 48:30)
  • CJ’s ideal Sark game: 2022 Alabama—get a lead, defense gets stops, salt away the clock.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Sark’s offense:

  • “I can’t call Sark an elite offensive mind...until he’s elite in the critical moments.” (A, 44:50)

• On NIL and Roster Management:

  • “That’s the NFL model, and I think he’s just adopting the NFL model and the mindset, even though in college... not everybody is there at this point.” (A, 24:33)

• On player traits:

  • “All of my technique...is built around one specific purpose... don’t get beat deep.” (A, 32:04)
  • “The one thing that will save you is your recovery speed.” (A, 31:17)

• CJ on coaching time demand:

  • “Every coach’s office I’ve ever been in, Rod, has a couch.” (B, 37:49)

• CJ reflecting fan privilege:

  • “These are first world problems... as Sark would say, we’re crying from a yacht.” (A, 46:14)

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Key Timestamps

• Beating A&M/Oklahoma 3 years in a row: 05:59 – 11:57
• NIL/“cap space” discussion & NFL model: 21:02 – 25:11
• Cornerback play, man vs. zone, player traits: 14:42 – 33:21
• Recruiting/Prospect evaluation (Seymour, Landon Williams): 33:54 – 41:00
• Odds vs. Tennessee & LSU: 41:00 – 43:18
• Sark’s offensive shortcomings (“elite mind” question): 44:50 – 46:14
• Muschamp’s defensive impact on Sark: 48:30 – 50:39

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Final Thoughts

The episode underscores high standards at Texas: The discourse around Sarkisian is nuanced—not that he’s not good, but that “elite” means dominance in the biggest, most critical moments and against the best teams. The show weaves fan interaction, deep football analysis, and inside Texas program talk, all delivered with candor and authentic Longhorn pride.

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For more live interaction, tune in to Coffee and Football or Friday afternoon’s live stream, with guests and continued Texas football discussion.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, what's up, folks? Welcome back to Orange Texas football and welcome back to the winning drive. I'm Lifetime Longhorn, Rod Babies. Pleased to be joined by fellow Lifetime Longhorn, the young prodigy CJ Vogel. Shout out to our friends over at Prize Picks and Von Lane for sponsoring this edition of On Texas Football. Lots to get into on the show, but the show belongs to you. Show of the people, for the people and by the people. So throw out your questions, comments, whatever you guys want to talk about, we can address it. Super chats jump to the front of the line. You can interrupt the show at any time. Just throw out a super chat. I'm on the road. Just so we can squash it. I'm on the road. I'm in Whitefish, Montana actually. Vacation nice. It's pretty nice setup, so if I have some technical issues or something like that, I apologize, but. And it's a bird that won't leave right here that there's too much nature around. Me trying to get the ambiance, but nature may come back to haunt me. There's even bear spray down at the local general store here, cj, like legit. Like, no, you gotta look out for bears. So, you know, it's. I'm in the wilderness, all right?

[B]

That's why I don't go outside, Rod. I stay right here. I sit right between my two bookcases and I, I talk to my computer all day, right? I want to go see a bear. I want to fight off birds. But I gotta ask you, are you, are you whitewater rafting? Are you white? Are you fly fishing?

[A]

No, no, but they got all that. They got all that. I mean, like a really fancy. It's like kind of a resort property, if you want to describe it as that. Basically, like, you could, you could go horseback riding, you can go white water rafting. The skiing is. It's obviously summertime. It's asking now, but like 15 minutes away, there's. Oh, man, they got like these intramural fields. You just go play all these different sports and stuff like that. They got a spa. No, it's. It's wild. It's crazy, man. They live in the good life.

[B]

That sounds unbelievable. That's the place to be.

[A]

Yeah. So right now it's not really roughing it. You just. You out here in the wilderness, but it ain't. This ain't the real wilderness. Trust me. I can tell y' all on that same. Yeah, it ain't like that. But it's, it's great. It's fantastic. And I'M gonna be up here for a little while, but right around the time the camp started starts, I'm heading back. I told wife you're not. When camp starts, I'm done hanging out with you in the wilderness. We're gonna get back to some football, which is what we're doing today. So I got a couple of questions that I had to escape to Texas. And my wife actually went to school in Montana. So she leaves me all the time. Just come up to Montana, hang out. And I've always said if I get enough bread and I don't have enough right now, and I may never get enough, I may die without enough. If I do get enough bread, I might get a place like Whitefish or Missoula, Montana. This. It's because I've been up here enough to appreciate it. It is pretty damn cool. Yeah, it's. If you haven't got a chance to do it, it's gorgeous. It's fantastic. And by the way, there's a longhorn connection. So this little property that I'm at now, the. The manager of the entire property, Longhorn, played golf at Texas back in the early 90s. And one of the first investors in this property is also a big time booster and donor of Texas. And so. And that's kind of a good friend of mine. So this. Yeah. So the Texas connections, man, run deep, even up here in Montana. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, no. Yeah. I'm saying it's a small town. They got. They got a rodeo happening tonight. I might get to the rodeo, I might not. I'm not sure. Or if I get done enough time, I might go down to the rodeo and have a good time. No, it's beautiful like it is. It's. It really is. Like I said, it's. It's God's country, whatever you want to describe it like that. So if you get a chance, what white fish? Missoula's like that too. It's pretty cool. All right, let's get right to it. I got a couple of questions, I think. So my man CJ's got a really cool article glamping. That's exactly what's going on. He's got a really cool article [e-mail] and he's got basically counting down the days to Texas training camp starts and today you had seven sophomore surges that you're predicting sophomores who are going to search. I want to get into that. That's going to be cool. And then I got a. I got a question. I want y' all to ponder out there as well, now that we're five years into this thing with Sark, Larry, you know, it's. You know, you've had time not to get to know him. And I think they're everybody's, you know, has this affection for Sark, the Longhorn fans in their own way. But kind of like if I asked you about your significant other, your wife or your husband, what's your biggest complaint about them? You know, and you. You still love them, still want to be with them, don't mean that, you know, you don't love them, but what's your biggest complaint? And most people who American give you the top complaint right off the. Right off the dome, they don't even need time to think about it. About Sarko. What will be your biggest complaint about Sark at this point in 2026, after five years being with him? And he's accomplished a lot, too. So I want to talk to my man C.J. about that. I got mine. I already know what mine is. All right, we'll get to that coming up later on. But this is a subject I want to talk about first, because I was talking to my man Jerry Hamilton about this. Like, I said, apologize about the bird that won't leave. That is. It's probably trying to interrupt Live Stream. And he said something that was interesting. We were talking about Texas in 2026. He said, yeah, what are the odds of Sark being able to beat A M and beat Oklahoma three consecutive times in the same season? I thought to myself, huh, I wonder how often that's happened. So I had to go do the research, because I thought to myself, Mac never did it. I was on the. Yeah, Mac never did. I don't think Mac ever did it. Like, three years in a row, if I'm not mistaken. Like both. Both A M and Oklahoma, he never did three years in a row. Daryl K. Royal did it. Multiple times he did it. That was a stretch from 68 to 70 where Daryl K. Royal did it. And there was a stretch from 58 to 65 where he also did it, and then that was 8 to 75.

[B]

He. He beat both teams every year for that stretch.

[A]

58 to 65.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then there's a 68 to 70, and then there was a 40 to 47. Dana Bible and Blair Cherry, I believe, were a part of that one, if I'm not mistaken. And I think you got one that's actually in the early 1900s. So, I mean, if you're talking about modern, the Modern era of football. Most modern era. Because said Mac, Mac never got. Mac never did it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Matt couldn't. I mean, Matt got a chance. He dominated A M for a stretch. I was there for that stretch where he dominated A M for that stretch. And but remember, Oklahoma was always Bob Stoops doing his thing. And he finally got over the hump with Oklahoma in O5. He gets over the hump with Oklahoma. So it's very interesting, though, I didn't think about that. And Sark is on the cusp of it, CJ because he's done it two years in a row now. You've beat the A M three years in a row. Sorry, three matchups in a row. Because you did it at the end of 2011, where that was the last matchup before you rekindled the rivalry when both of you were in the sec. But I, that, that I never thought about that. And sorry, you know, maybe he's ready to put himself in a higher, you know, kind of stratosphere of coaches here at Texas. In Texas football history. That would be quite an accomplishment to dominating your rivals to that extent. And great. It's a great graphic. You're kind of showing that.

[B]

Yeah, look, that's part of the job, right? You, you get hired at Texas just like you do at Oklahoma. You get hired at Texas A M. That the idea is that you defeat your rivals. You want to be better than your rivals. That's what college football was basically built on, was being better than who you're better or better than who you're. You're next to, right? Your neighbors, your. Your conference foes. You want to win that. Now obviously that's changed probably over the last 30 years since the implementation of a true national championship game where, you know, winning the conference is great and good, hang a banner, start a parade. But there's bigger. There's a bigger trophy now, right? You. You can hang a bigger flag that says national champions. And that starts, I think, a lot, especially now with your, your big time regional rivals. And that will never change. It'll always be Oklahoma. It'll always be Texas A M. And you know, Arkansas makes the graphic. We had this conversation last night, Ralph. We don't need to rehash it. But that's what source been very good at so far. And we talked about it a little bit last night with Jeff Howe on the Wednesday night show. Texas is 3 and 2 against Oklahoma. If it wasn't for the heroics of Caleb Wilson, Williams and of course Dylan Gabriel in the final seconds leading Oklahoma down the field he'd be 5 0. Yeah and maybe 20 against Texas a M both by double digit victory. So going into this year, Rod, and this is kind of the bigger question that we're posing to the chat now. One, who or which of those two teams do you view as the tougher matchup for Texas right now I view Oklahoma as a significantly better team than Texas A M. Yeah, I think they have a tougher defense. I think they are better in the front seven. I think the quarterback is better. But also how consistently successful is success for Sark against those two opponents? Because it's not. You can't win every single matchup there. I mean there's back and forth in every rivalry. But when you're on top, you better enjoy it and you better hope it never ends.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's a good point and actually Stark's done a really good job. So I think Sark understands what the magnitude of those robberies. Right. And Mac knew too and good point cb. Mac actually did not have a good record versus Arkansas. Didn't face Arkansas a lot because they the conference at the time. But Arkansas, I got beat by Arkansas my freshman year. I believe in Cotton bowl we got beat by Arkansas and so that you know, Max struggled actually to find his, find his groove if you will, in those rivalries and mostly because of Oklahoma. And so Mac never accomplished what Sark has a chance to accomplish which is beating them both. And by the way, I will say this, at least A M, I don't know, Oklahoma so long has always been a elite power, a championship caliber program. But you're getting A M at one of its peaks. Yeah, Oklahoma is oh I can't say Oklahoma at a peak because Oklahoma has always just been pretty steadily and consistently a good football person. Bob Soups took over and then even before that obviously with Switzer. So they're one of those blue bloods that they haven't had many drop offs that have at least that have been a long consistent drop off as a program. Usually they drop off for a while, they come right back with a vengeance. So I can't say that about Oklahoma. But A and M, you're getting them in there as peak and Sarkis, he's handling business against.

[B]

Sorry to cut you. What's the stat with A and M? They haven't won double digit games and back to back season since 1998 maybe. Oh, it's been that long?

[A]

Is that A. That's a hell of a stat if that's the case.

[B]

So when you Talk about their peak. They're one of the top 12 made to the College Football Playoff a year ago and they're positioned right now to be a preseason top 5 sec team once again. Which probably puts you right on that fringe for a projected preseason college Football playoff appearance. That would be their peak back to back double digit season wins. Back to back College Football Playoff appearances.

[A]

Great point. And I think that's expected. It'd be a disappointment right now in Agilent, which by the way is also an accomplishment, that it would be a disappointment if they didn't make the playoff or they didn't get to double digit wins there with the Aggie. So we want to throw it out there. I do think Sarek I have. Which one of those rivals? You asked the question earlier. Do I think it's the toughest matchup right now? I'm going to say it's Oklahoma.

[B]

I do too.

[A]

Especially after hearing that little nugget you dropped CJ from SEC media days that Venables believes he's got, what do you call them, nine offensive linemen.

[B]

He can win with nine winning offensive linemen. And then there was a bunch of buzz about the tight ends and look, if they can run the football because they haven't been able to in the last three years, I think that is exactly what you'd hope if you're an Oklahoma fan because I don't know if you want mater throwing 40 or 50 times a game.

[A]

Yeah, he can't play too much hero ball. You don't want that. That's kind of the to me that that's when they're gonna start spiraling as a pro, as a team, offensively, if they have him playing a lot of hero. But he can do it, but he can't do it throughout an entire SEC schedule. All right, good conversation there. Appreciate that. All right, let's get to a couple of super chats here and then we'll dive into some other conversations. Shout out to my man. Daniel is up first. Thank you, Daniel, for the super chat. Appreciate that. Says Ro, you were a coach, would you use Grayson Loton as a nickel or outside corner? What are his pros and cons at both spots? That is a really good question. It's a great question, actually. I think he's pretty consistent at nickel. I went back and looked at it again because I was thinking to myself, I know that Muschamp likes a bigger nickel. I think the average, you know, kind of size of a mushroom nickel is around 5 11, £200 is what I. When I Went back and looked at it. So he likes a thicker nickel. Grace Lotion's got the height, but he's not really built his frame. He's not thick pick db, but he's actually surprisingly good against the run. Like he wasn't actually a liability against the run last season. And we know he's twitchy enough to be an asset in coverage. So I don't worry about him that I haven't seen him much at the outside corner. And this is about, this is how I feel about and I've always felt like this. If you can cover the slot, even Dion Sanders kind of says on Jerry. Jerry Hamilton tells his great story about Deion Sanders at a camp saying, you know, who wants to, who wants to play the slot? Because if you can play the slot then you can play any position in secondary because it's that you. It's that tough and it's that much of a herculean task to be able to cover a elite receiver with a two way go. Also be secondary run support most of the time as well. Be asked to take on, you know, block sometimes offensive linemen and tight ends, guys that are bigger than you. You got to have a whole entire. You got to have this very well rounded skill set to be able to play the slot. So I believe you can play slot. If you can play the star position or the slot corner, you definitely can play the outside because out outside at the other cornerbacks cornerback position, whether I'm outside right or left or boundary or field, I have the sideline. It's. It's literally it is another defender like it's a. When. When. That's why when DBs out there, when corners don't use the leverage of the sideline, I get really upset. Yeah, you're just wasting a defender, man. Is that to help you? And to me as a corner that was always. I played, you know, slot when I first got to Texas and played a little bit, you know, out throughout my time at Texas if I'm switched in different sub packages. And I always found comfort in the leverage of the sideline as my friend. And so to me I think it's easier to play the outside corner than it is to play the slot. And I think if he can play the slot, which he played at a very respectable level as a true freshman by the way and they came and attacked him and I think he can transition pretty confidently to the outside without much drop off, if any drop off Hill he might actually like a Jedae Barrett. He may actually excel even more at the outside corner. He has that possibility.

[B]

Yeah. I mean it's very possible in the sense that what made Jade a so special was his ball hawking ability. Yeah. And with Grayson Littleton leading, tied with Cade Phillips for most past breakups a year ago as a true freshman that shows me Rod that it he's got his mindset on when the ball is arriving. How can I break up that pass? That's something that that that secondary group corners group in in particular didn't really have a knack for a year ago. You know that they were good, you know, rarely out of coverage, but they weren't making plays on the football. And that's something I know that you and I both discuss pretty often. This is also that conversation about wanting a bigger nickel. That's why you see Xavier Phil semi getting some run and he will in the fall camp. One other little tidbit in there, having the three way go as an outside corner, having that sideline as your friend to help you there, man, it's exactly why you're seeing more and more condensed sets offensively. And it's why Sark, McVeigh, Shanahan, McDaniels, all of these guys are finding ways to create creatively basically make more room on the field by condensing their sets. So the three way go was always there regardless of how talented a corner might be in using his leverage or the outside.

[A]

That's so true. And I'm actually kind of re watching some Sark basically the game from 2025 against powerful opponents and looking at the condensed sets a little bit too because he does. That's how you do a create. So you create matchups you like on the outside and a lot of times you can create those switch releases where you force to have to give you space because of the condensed head. And you can get the wide receivers if they're willing and capable involved blockers in the run game. And that's why, that's part of the reason Jay Witt ended up as you know, a draft pick of the Rams. They liked his blocking ability. They literally said it and they like. No, we liked his blocking ability as a wide receiver because we like, we run a lot of duo. We don't like condensed sets like CJ mentioned and we want our wide receivers to be able to get up on that second level and and give us that block so our we can break that three year, three four yard run into a 14 yard run. Yeah.

[B]

So let's just get to the second level and let the kids work and

[A]

you got bigger receivers this year, so you can do that. All right, before we get back to the questions and we'll also get to some other topics, let's thank our sponsors really quickly. Think of Friends over at Prize Picks no better time than right now for you to explore how Prize Picks can improve your sports viewing experience. It's America's number one sports picks apps and honestly, it's about as simple as it gets for Player Picks. All you do is choose more or less on a few player stats and lock in your lineup. That's it. And if you're someone who likes picking teams instead of individual players, Prize Picks has you covered there as well. And you can now pick the winner, the total on games, even fights as well. Prize picks available in most states including the great state of Texas, California and Florida. So chances are you can jump in today. And one of my favorite features is that now you can follow users as well. If you like picks that they're making, you can tell them with one click and you can follow your friends picks as well. It's now also a better part is that my friends over at Prize Picks are gonna hook you up. If you never tried prize before, play your first five dollar lineup and if you win, you'll get a hundred and fifty dollars in bonus lineups. Just make sure you use the code HMA when you sign up. They actually just updated this offer so there' better time to get started. So download the Prize Picks app today. Use the code HMA. Play the first $5 lineup. If you win, you'll get $150 in bonus lineups. That's prize picks code HMA. Good luck and as always, play smart. Play responsibly. Play prospects. All right, let's also thank our friends over at Von Lane while we're showing some love to our sponsors. If you're traveling for business or traveling for personal reasons, check out the Von Lane service. It's great. I've used it myself several times. I've travele to Houston to dfw. I've gone to visit family using the Von Lane. My wife is used to Von Lane service as well. It's great. You get complimentary Wi fi snacks, beverages and hot towel service. They even have complimentary meals on certain departures as well. They've actually upgraded their Internet with Starlink so now it's faster and more reliable. So now if you want to get a lot of work done, which I've done on the Von Lane, certainly it's ideal for that. But also you can just sit back and Relax, all right? You don't have to worry about TSA or security checks or delayed flights or traffic or road rage or anything like that. Let our friends over at Von Lane take care of you and take care of the entire trip. They serve Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Fort Worth, Plano, the Woodlands as well, Atlanta, Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville. If you're traveling with the team, you can try your own Von Lane coach. Design the trip and pick up the drop off. And remember, use the code OTF26 at [e-mail] if it's your first time riding, you'll get $20 off your first trip with Von Lane. That's Von Lane, your private jet on wheels. And by the way, if you're traveling for game days, think about Von Lane. If you're coming from Houston, they've actually upgraded their route from the Woodlands to Austin so you can, you know, bypass all the, the traffic and bypass the parking nightmares dealing with game days and just take the Vaughn Lane service. Thank you very much, my friends over at Vaughn Lane. All right, let's get back to questions here. Couple super chats. How about this from D Train?

[B]

What's up?

[A]

D Train says Stark on the pod was talking about getting flack for talking about cap space, but he led with talking about having to compete with other offers that were on the table. We lost players, but they did well. Yeah. This is at SEC media days. Right. It's just a comment that he talked about where people got upset because he said they were essentially clearing cap space. Right. I think he was looking at it because Sark talks about everything from an NFL perspective. Right. He's been, he's been doing that before these Rev share issues and all these nil discussions. When Song first got here, he was always saying, I think the NFL has solved a lot of these problems that we're dealing with in college football, and we should look to the NFL as an example. And I don't think he's just talking about the macro issues. I think he's talking about his front office, the way he's built and sets up his front office for evaluations and for, you know, retention, which is, you know, resigning players and that kind of stuff. So I think ultimately that's where his mind was. I think people are still very sensitive because it is a great area in college. But I think Sark has already moved on to, this is a professional. It's such a professional blueprint. We have got a. A professional front office. We treat our players like they are pros coming in and we Understand that that may be a little bit cutthroat, but I think he was just telling the truth, keeping it real. Even if keeping it real was going wrong. Right.

[B]

No, I. The comments that kind of circulated after SEC media days circus, I believe the term was, we let these guys go, right? He listed out Deandre Moore, Trey Wisner, Parker Livingston, you know, Leon Lafal. And he said, look, we. We had to let him go and to make room for Cam Coleman or Rasheen Biles or whoever it might have been. And, you know, fans from other schools took the comments and said, well, commit to the University of Texas and this is what they'll do. They'll turn your back on you. Well, no, right. Because exactly what you. You just laid out, Rod, looking at this like an NFL model, what is the NFL all about? It's about maximizing your dollar, making your dollar stretch within your cap. NFL is very firm cap space, and you want to make sure that the snaps that you get, the production that you see on the field, the teammate that you are in the locker room, is maximized by the dollar amount that is allotted to you. Now, here's the deal, and this is where Sark and I believe a lot of his frustration comes in when it comes to NIL today is, well, as an agent, nothing's stopping me from going to go shop my player around in late November, early December to. We'll use Boston College or Washington State or Northwestern, right? I can go to all three of those schools and say, hey, you know, my guy's not really playing right now. What would it take for him to get. For. For. For y' all to get them. Well, they're going to come back to Texas and say, hey, we were offered this, this, and this by three different schools. Are y' all gonna pony up or what? And of course, if that player is not putting out on the field or producing to what that dollar amount would entail, we'll say, hey, good luck to you. Now we have a couple of extra dollars that we can go get a guy that we know will produce, like Rashin Bob or Cam Coleman or a Bomasco. So that was the flack that other fans, obviously, anytime that, you know, your rival head coach talks, Rod, that's pick. Getting it picky. Start picking on the coach. But that's exactly what he was talking about there. And I have no issue with it at all.

[A]

Yeah, I don't either. I know it's cutthroat, and it does. It seems insensitive, and it. It is insensitive. But that's the NFL model, and I think he's just adopting the NFL model and the mindset, even though in college, obviously not everybody is there at this point, but you almost have to. Do you have to have that mindset when there is an available route for you to upgrade your roster every year, you can't ignore that. If you're circ like, that would be to me, you know, that'd be malpractice, considering you're the head coach at Texas. When you have a way to get a better player and you don't utilize it, that's. Like I said, that's a fireable offense

[B]

almost right these days, which is again next year. I. I don't want to get over my. My skis here, but my goodness, you look at what Texas is set to lose or at least apart into the NFL draft after this year. I mean, you talk about cap space and freedom financially. Boy, they could be as aggressive as anybody's ever been in the portal, given what's about to be off the books this year.

[A]

Yeah, you're. I know. An rh, A Colin Simmons, a Trevor Goosby, a Cam Coleman. Yeah, I mean, I can imagine.

[B]

I mean.

[A]

Yeah, that's a great point, too. I. I don't even know what the percentage of the. The salary cap those guys would be, but that's significant. That might be half your damn salary cap. The guys. If. If not a little bit more, honestly. All right, Good stuff there. Oh, I meant to bring this up about the Grayson lotion conversation earlier, so I want to go back to it. I want to. I want to look at his coverage grade here. Just throwing it out there. I. I found my notes. 75 passer rating in man and in zone coverage. That is fantastic. Like I said, and I said he wasn't a liability against the run in my opinion, either. So I think Grace the little might be underrated. Actually, I don't think we talk about him enough, considering how consistent he was as a true freshman last year.

[B]

Can I ask you this, Rod? For a young corner who finds a way onto the field early, is it easier to play one or the other? Manner, man or zone?

[A]

I love the man. I love. Zone is easier because I feel like there's less responsibility as a db. I mean, yeah, you know, if everybody thinks you get beat because you were the guy that was the nearest defender, but I always felt man coverage, to me was easier because there's no. There's no progression. Right. Everybody talking about a quarterback's progression, he has to, you know, go through a read. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Defenders do the same thing. We just. They call them keys, but they're the same. There's a progression in certain coverage. I got to go from reading the number two receiver back to number one, get to the quarterback, and then see back what my number one is doing. You talked about today, Banner. The beauty of today Baron, was his vision. He had amazing vision. He would almost triangulate. He had great peripheral vision, so he wouldn't have to, like, stare down number one, stare down number two, go back to. Go back to the quarterback. No, he would just kind of look at it all this way and almost make it a cohesive picture for himself

[B]

where he saw everything.

[A]

And he even said. He even said that's why he didn't like backpedaling. He's like, I like. He said, I. I prefer to. He said shuffle out because it increased my vision. I can see more, and I think that's key. In. In zone, you need to have really good eyes, disciplined eyes, really good eyes. Because like I said, you got to go through those progressions. And if you're. If you're really good in your progressions and you've watched a lot of film, I think zone coverage, like a guy like Jay Baron, you could jump a lot of routes, you know, I mean, you could. You could really be. I. I don't say. You can be a little bit loose in your interpretation of the coverage. Right? It's like, hey, it's covered. Yeah, this is covered, too. But you know what? That flat looks like it's taken care of. Let me sink back a little. I can see, you know, I mean, I could. I could rob something. You want to rob some zone? It's how you rob. So, yeah, you guys, if I. If I got really instinctual, like defenders, that they're the football investigators, I almost. That's why Texas played a lot of zone in 2024, and they were great at it because they had a lot of football investigators. Andrew Makuba, Janae Baron, Michael Taff. So just let. Let them give them more. They have more of a canvas to be an artist and paint their interpretation of the coverage in the defense and zone. And man, there ain't none of that. And man is strict. It's rigid. Boom. This is your. There's no room for interpretation or misinterpretation. So I preferred man, actually, because I didn't like how. I don't know. I guess it was thought as all these ways you could misinterpret zone. That's why they like switch releases and switch routes downfield and funky coverage and funky formations and condenses because they're trying to just confuse the eyes of the dbs, get you looking at something else. When in zone, you're supposed to be. Have disciplined eyes, and you're in your key. So I like, man, just line me up against that guy. I'm better than that dude. Let's go take care of business, and I'll figure it out. So that's. And I think that's how much champ is must. Champ doesn't like the uncertainty and all of the. Like I said, the misinterpretation of zone coverage at times. There's a lot you can get a lot of unless everybody's on the same page. You get 20, 24, Texas. Let's go. Let's play zone all damn day. We play. We only play like 15, 17, man, because you had so many really good, disciplined football investigators in that secondary.

[B]

Yeah. See, Kobe Black is a guy. I mean, I think his football investigation, playing zone, we saw his best last year. Eyes on the quarterback, jumping routes, finding work. I. I wouldn't classify Kobe as a guy that would be great at upward ball, which is basically just, you know, that that's your guy across the. The line. If he's. Basically, he's wearing a red wristband. You're wearing a red wristband. You go wherever he goes. That's man coverage across the board. I wouldn't classify him as a guy like that. But I wanted to bring this up, Rod, because Texas has three corners right now that are playing their first ever college football. Right. Hayward, Howard Jr. Long, lengthy, Samari Matthews, and of course, now John Meredith.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I wanted to ask you this because is it a case by case situation when it comes to traits a corner might possess entering college football that they might be better at one or the other to begin their career?

[A]

Yeah, that's a good one. I need. If I'm gonna get a guy that's gonna play, man, I do like physically. I like arm length. I'm not gonna. You know, Robbie was 5 9, so I'm hating. How am I hating on somebody about their height? But arm length is important, though. I. I do believe that's important when it comes to playing man to man, playing press man. And I think you got to have good feet, and I'd like you to have very. What do you call them? Loose hips. I'd like you to be able to get in and out of your brakes. Loose hips. And of course, I think the number one Trait is speed. You're gonna play, man. I need you, baby.

[B]

Run.

[A]

Because you're gonna get beat. You're gonna get beat. You got your techniques on the failure. At one point, that guy's gonna have a great release. At one point, whatever it is, or downfield, just a really good route. Getting out of wrecks, you're gonna get beat. If you're playing a lot of man, that's just the reality of the world you live in. The one thing that will save you is your recovery speed. So you can have a guy that's gonna have elite speed playing a lot of zone and they can get away with it. If you don't have some top notch high level speed, just being able to just straight up fly and, and put them up and put them down, it's hard to play straight up, man. At the highest levels, it's hard. That makes sense because you're gonna meet a Jermaine Bishop. You're gonna be an executive work. You're gonna meet a guy. Okay, you know, Cam Comey can go pretty good. Hey, Ryan Wingo can go. You're gonna meet a guy that's just. Man, they just. Matthew golden like, no, this just got elite speed. And you, you're in that. Turn your hips and stay on their upfield shoulder and they can beat you deep. Once you're beat deep, it opens up every other route on the route tree. Everything is, everything's a defensive back. All of my technique, all of my fundamentals are built around one specific purpose. Most of the time, don't get beat deep. Don't let them get on top of you and beat you deep. And that's why if you can make a DB fear that and acknowledge that deep ball and have to turn my hips and, and you can probably pretty much run everything on the route trick. Yeah, I'm just trying to stay on top all the time. That's why, that's why I need a guy with elite speed. So when Jermaine Bishop lies about there and Jermaine Bishop gives me that, that okie doke and he gets a little, he gets 12 steps on me. My. I'm praying the ball is not on time and on. On the money. Most of the time it ain't. Most of the time it lags a little bit. He's got to adjust to it. And if he's got to adjust that one little adjustment, my makeup speed will, will help me out. It will be my saving grace. So that's why that's big. That's why I don't I don't know if Smoke Matthews has that elite high end speed. I. John Meredith has that. You know, hey, with Howard, I'm not. He's got the size, he's got the frame, he's got that wingspan. I was talking about that kind of thing, so.

[B]

Man, that was. Yeah, if y' all don't watch football theory every weekend, you just got it right there, Rod. That was phenomenal.

[A]

No, man, I appreciate it. I love talking. Now I'm nerding out talking DB stuff. All right, let's get back to the. The super chats here. Speaking of talking about height here, how about this epidea? He says, why the banter around Seymour's height? 62 compared to 64 for the other guys. Washington got to the Natty a few years ago with a small but very effective line. Am I missing something? Hook them. What do you thought, C.J. because you've seen Lawrence Seymour, correct?

[B]

I've not seen him in person. I've seen plenty of photos of him relative to other players on the offensive line. It is a great question. And look, I know he's listed at 6:2, but, Rod, I think that'd be like you and I being listed at six foot. So being taken when it comes to his roster height, I think is kind of where the banter begins. Is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is 6 foot 2, 6 foot 2 right now? I would say probably not. And that's the other thing, is we've not seen a guy this size. I don't say small because he's 320 pounds, but we've not seen a guy this size in a Sark Flood offensive line. Everybody, I believe, has been north of 3 or 6 foot 3, 6 foot 4, 305, 310 pounds. Like I'm. I believe the smallest by size has been Jake Majors or Connor Robertson. Both are pushing 6 foot 4 and 310. So now you're working with someone that doesn't have that. That size. Now, arm length helps. DJ Campbell, a guy with very long arms, had a phenomenal first step. And that's why I'm not super worried right now with Seymour. I want to see him, obviously, in practice, see how he moves. But when you talk to Trevor Goosby, when I asked him, I said, what's the first thing that stood out about Lawrence Seymour at SAC media days? He said, look, the guy is explosive, and we talk about it all the time. What made a guy like Byron Murphy, Puna Ford, you know, some of these guys that are undersized by position but were super effective in the trenches is arm length and explosivity.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Seymour certainly has that explosivity. And I went back and watched a little bit of that Western Kentucky, LSU game. 48 pass blocking opportunities, Rod. Only one pressure allowed.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I think you take that.

[A]

Yeah. Legit. That's interesting. I want to see what his, like, arm length is, too. Actually, speaking of arm length, Lauren Seymour. I know he's. I know he's a little shorter, but I'm telling you, wingspan and arm length are probably the more underrated qualities for line play. It's all about keeping the guy away from you. Right. I don't need the guy getting close to me, getting up under my pads. And for D line and O lineman, one of the more underrated qualities. So I'd love to hear what that stat is about. Lauren Seymour. Great stuff there, cj. All right, getting back to the super chats. Ladarian, Watson, thank you for the super chat. Says, Rod, you're a film junkie. How come you never went the coaching route? Thank you, Ladarian. I thought about it, actually. This is probably now 10, 12 years ago. I did have a couple of offers to get into it, and. What? Timing wasn't right and the field wasn't right, and I got a lot of respect for coaches. They put in a lot of work. I'd probably end up. And I get really obsessive about football. This is a nice distance between me and football. Yeah.

[B]

You don't want to burn out.

[A]

Yeah. Because I, trust me, man, I. I had a point when football was my entire identity. And then I had to, you know, once football was over for me professionally, I had to kind of reinvent myself, which I think all players, all professional athletes actually probably have to go through that process. Unless you, you know, you play 10, 12, 15 years in your league, then you don't have to. But most people, they play four or five years professionally, and they have to kind of reinvent themselves. And my obsession with football, my relationship with it can be unhealthy. It can be. Especially if I'm, you know, if there's a lot on the line and coaching is that. So I. I still thought about the coaching route. I've actually still, you know, every now and then entertained it. But I like what I'm doing now. I love otf, and it's a great way for me to have my relationship with the game and the program I love and not be overly obsessed with it. Sleeping, you know, at the office, watching film, not seeing my family at all and not saying that's how all coaches are. That's. They're not saying, but I probably would be like that. Like I know me like I.

[B]

Look, every coach's office I've ever been in, Rod has a couch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Coach sleep on.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, yeah. Look, I, I, I, I, I know if you ever got back into coaching, that would be something that your players would greatly benefit from. Your head coach would look like a genius. But also one, I would miss her. K it. Absolutely. And then two, that's a lot of time. A lot of time from the family.

[A]

It is, it is. Yeah. And I started my family late. Right. I got married at 40. You know what I mean? I had my first kid like 42 years. I started all this pretty late. So yeah, I'm, I'm, I love otf. Bobby gave me a great opportunity here to work with. Obviously CJ's one of them, but some people I really respect and I, we honestly just, it feels guilty calling this a job and that's so I, I love it. So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna dive into coaching, but I do, I got a lot of friends in coaching, so if I ever need to, I figure that if something like that happened, I could do it. Don't leave us here with cj. Hey, y' all in good hands with cj. I was a fan of CJ before CJ got to otf. Y' all know that. All right. CJ knows that too. I was, I was cyber stalking CJ because he had good, had great Texas football nuggets way before he got to OTF. So when Bobby was like, hey, the C.J. vogel kid, you like him? I was like, oh, C.J. vogel. That's dude's legit.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

Right there. Oh no, that was legit. I remember that conversation. All right, let's get back to it. Sir, Certus Lending and Realty, thank you for the super chat. Says lwc. Lwc. Four stars or five? Landon Williams got the four stars. Is he a four star or five star?

[B]

Great question. Production on the field highlights probably scream five star. I, I believe Jerry Hamilton or Jordan Shrugs worked together on a piece earlier in the week and said, look, this is what is needed this year for Landon Williams callous to break all time Texas State high school rushing records. And I think it's within range, which is crazy. Anytime you come across a guy in that conversation. Thank you, Matthew. It's pretty remarkable. Now the height, the size is where you're going to get danged, right? Daniel kind of points it out you're. Look, he. He's. He's not going to check the size boxes, but again, you turn on the test. And Rodditz, I'm sure you've seen the meme. You got the two bus riders. One's looking out into the cliff, the other one's looking out into the sunset. And he's got a great smile. The other guy's got a frown. And it's, you know, the guy that watches only tape and he's enjoying his life versus the guy that checks his, you know, all the analytics and the advanced numbers and statistics and do they check every box? And that guy's probably a little bit more miserable. I think the ultimate test is you turn on Lynn Williams callous tape and you're going to enjoy what you see. So talent production on the field. I think it's five stars. He's not far off from it here. Not exactly sure what ESPN is doing with an 84 there, but, boy, he is a talent that if you get him on your campus, you're gonna have some fun with him in your offense.

[A]

All right, good stuff there. Oh, I think we got a super chat here. That from Billy. Oh, Billy, thank you for the super chat from Billy Woods. We appreciate it. Says a scale of 1 to 10, our odds of beating Tennessee and LSU. Hook them. Oh, that's good. Because there's different challenges. I think the challenge for Tennessee is Jim Knowles, that matchup versus Sark, because Sark has not been able to really find a way to win that chess match against Jim Knowles. Right. And then you got the other chess match with lsu. It's Elaine Kiffin issue. Because Muschamp has actually had some issues with Lane Kiffin. I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not saying that he will, but that. But it could have been his talent level at South Carolina and Florida, whatever it was. But Lane Kiffin has had. Has bested must champ a couple of times. So those matchups will determine those games. And I say Texas. Oh, nah, I don't know. I say I got it right now. One to ten. I'm gonna say seven. Yeah, seven. Maybe six and a half, actually.

[B]

If. If I could split them up, I put like an eight and a half on Tennessee. Yeah, I feel really good about Texas going to Knoxville this year. Yeah, you're. You're talking about a red shirt freshman or a true freshman. Making their fourth ever start against Colin Simmons, Jelani McDonald, Shane Biles in this defense. I don't care what Jim Knowles puts out there. Good luck. With that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now LSU on the other hand, that was a team that I looked at when we did our way too early season predictions or record predictions. I said Texas was going 11 and one in the regular season, but they lose the LSU that first weekend or what is it, second weekend in November. That was the one loss for me. And I say that because, look, that is a tough place to play. You get them very late in the season. That front seven is phenomenal. I think in two years they'll have the best defensive line in the entire country. But the talent is there right now. And that quarterback who debate if he's good, debate if he's not, that quarterback has talent and he'll have 11 weeks worth of build up film, prep and execution to find out what does and does not work in that offense. I think that is a game that Texas has a lot of talent, LSU has a lot of talent. The storylines will be great. I think it's about a five, five and a half on the confidence scale for me.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's a good one. Yeah, the LSU one's gonna be tough. I'm not sure where I am yet. I don't know if I've made an official prediction on the LSU. I got Texas 10 and 2 right now in my head and I don't think, I don't think I've seen mentioned where the two losses are going to be. I, I hope it's not oh House. I feel like Texas, if they beat Ohio State then I feel like I should be able to change my prediction. But right now, if you're not gonna beat Ohio State this year, when are you gonna do it?

[B]

I mean this is a big pendulum swing.

[A]

I agree, I agree. Because it changes the complexion. It gives you margin for error in the SEC schedule. You lose it and then you're like, man, if you lose the LSU game, we just talked about beating Texas and Texas A M three times in a row. How difficult that has been for historically good and great coaches here at Texas. We'll see. Interesting conversation. All right, good, good question there, Billy. Appreciate that as well. All right, I. One last question before we get out of here. C.J. what is your biggest complaint about Sark? I'll give you mine. My biggest complaint about Sark so far. As a, as a head coach slash play caller. It can be anything. I'm ready for him to have an elite third down red zone offense post Bijan. I'm probably beating the dead horse here, but I can't claim him to be an elite offensive mind which I believe is in him and he's capable of. And we've seen him, by the way, have production at an elite level there at Bama as the offensive play caller. But you got to be elite in the critical moments.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so this year, if I don't get that, I'm gonna. Yeah. If I don't start seeing that like all throughout the season, I would probably be very disappointed because I don't know if it's in them then if this offense can't be, you know, top 25 in those categories. I ain't saying you got to be top 10. But post Biano Rojo, he hasn't even been a top 25. Third down or third down or red zone offense.

[B]

I, I, I couldn't agree more, Rod. I think my biggest frustration is that we've seen the gap between his defense and his offense wide over the last three years. It's like his defense has been ahead of this offense and that often should be his, his brainchild. Right. For all the reasons we talked about, play calling, play designing, talent. You know, you've had continuity with your coaches, continuity with majority of your players, specifically on the offensive line. There shouldn't be one glaring deficiency with your offense year after year. And it's been something new every year. Right. So that's something that it look complaint. I think might be a little strong. Right. Texas is won 10 games three years in a row. Like they're, they're finding ways to, to, to win football games. But it's certainly a frustration.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that's a very fair critique.

[A]

Yep. Yeah, frustration. I agree with that. But like I said, these are first world problems by the way too. As Sark would say, we're, we're crying from a yacht. I think that's, that's how Sark described it.

[B]

Do I want steak or lobster tonight?

[A]

No doubt. Okay. I think we got a couple super chats. Okay. We're getting close to the end. The last two super chats of the evening here from Certus Lending and Realty. So do you think Texas A M is offering Atlanta, Williams, Collins a starting position as a frosh and would that sway him? Oh, wow.

[B]

Good question. That decision comes 6:45 Saturday evening, so probably close to 7. Texas has been the overwhelming favorite over the last month. In my eyes. We'll see what that decision finally looks like. But A M would have to offer a whole lot more for them to swoop in late and steal that. Especially as Daniel points out too, they, they went all in last year. On KJ Edwards and that recruitment out of Carthage. So right now I say no, I don't believe that that will sway anything late. But this is the nil world. He hasn't made a decision yet. All signs, however, point towards the Longhorns being the team going into the decision.

[A]

All right, thank you for that super chat. Daniel here with the super chat says y' all fight out who gets beer or popcorn with this super chat. Thanks, guys. Hey, Daniel. Thank you, brother. It is, it is officially the weekend. It's after five o' clock on Thursday, so we'll. Thank you very much, Daniel. Also, a super chat from Justin here says how much does much Champ help Sark on offense? Rod, y' all be sure to check out the the Big Sky. Montana. Oh yeah, no doubt. Yeah, big. It got some good football up here too. I mean FCS powerhouses, Montana State, Montana. Oh yeah, got some good football up here. But thank you for the super chat. Justin, how much does must Champ help Stark on offense? Here's my take about this real quick. I think, and I said this earlier, I think I was talking to Jeff about it. I think Sark wants to play with a lead this year because he has a really high powered offense and playing with a lead, it puts a lot of pressure on the opposing team. They, they play with more desperation, all right. And are more prone to make bad decisions or decisions out of desperation when they're playing from a deficit and must champion. This is part of the reason I think he didn't like pk. PK style was organic pressure, organic disruption. So almost, you know, I'm gonna let the office dictate the terms in the tempo and I'll make my adjustments and to it. And he would often adjust successfully because he's had a good defense at Texas. But for Sark, Sark's thinking, man, my best offensive football is usually at the beginning. I'm a great script guy. I'm great in preparation and game planning. What Sark has kind of struggled is in game adjustments, right? Trying to adjust to win the chess match within the game. And so I think early on in the game he wants a defensive coordinator that is going to be aggressive, force the issue, force disruption, dictate the terms and create more havoc early getting the ball back, you know, getting, forcing negative plays, getting good field position so Sark can score early with his great preparation and game planning, get a lead and play with a lead. And I think that's what he wants this year, to play with a lead.

[B]

Alabama 2022 I think is the most ideal Steve Sarkeesian game it could go.

[A]

Yes, that.

[B]

I think your defense gets a couple stops, you go back and forth. Defense gets some stops coming out of halftime, you get a lead, you run the clock out. We saw it again in 2024 in Fayetteville.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That was an ugly game. Texas couldn't score. I believe the final to that was what, 20 to 10, 20 to 7. It was ugly. But instead of getting the ball late and scoring or going down the field to with eyes to score. Hey, we'll we'll take this one. We'll get out of here. Seven and a half minutes for both of those games, running the football, extending drives. Remember it was Queen ewers on a QB read that. He kept on 4th and 1, 4th and 2 lowered a shoulder, fell across the the first downline, got up, pumped up. Had been an ugly game but he knew that that was the first down that would seal the deal. I think that's what you look at with Sarkis. Can I get on top of with about seven minutes left in the fourth quarter and then it's ball game.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I think that's 20. I think that Alabama game in Tuscaloosa was the one that he looks at says if every single game could go just like this, I don't need to score 50 ever again.

[A]

Love it. All right, great stuff CJ. Thank you guys for all the super chats by the way. Really appreciate your participation. You guys, great as always. Thank you to Matthew behind the scenes, he's the real mvp. Nobody does it better. If we missed any of your questions, don't worry, you can direct them to the gentleman that coffee and football. Bright and early tomorrow morning there will be Jerry Hamilton and Bobby Burton bright and early at 8:15am Also we have our 3:15 live stream tomorrow on Friday as well. I'll be a part of that one. So my man cj. CJ won't be on that one but Terry Hamilton will be joining me for that one as well. So tomorrow, any of the questions you got, we'll be ready to answer them on those live streams. Thank you to our sponsors, thank you to our friends over at Von Lane and prize picks. Thanks to each and every one of you out there for watching and for listening and for CJ and for Matthew. I'm lifetime long one Rod babies. Until next time, hook them up.