Lessons in Rejection with Gavin DeGraw

Summary

Podcast Summary: On the Bus with Troy Vollhoffer

Episode Title: Lessons in Rejection with Gavin DeGraw
Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Troy Vollhoffer (Country Thunder)
Guest: Gavin DeGraw

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Troy Vollhoffer welcomes singer-songwriter Gavin DeGraw for an intimate conversation about his journey through music, dealing with rejection, maintaining integrity, and supporting the military community. Gavin shares stories from his upbringing in the Catskills, the pivotal moments that shaped his career, lessons learned from his family, brushes with industry legends, and his continued love for performing. His candid discussion on signing (and refusing) music deals, breaking out with "I Don’t Want To Be," and the realities of show business offers both inspiration and valuable insights for aspiring artists.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Military Connection and Supporting Troops

[01:23–02:54]

• Gavin visits Nashville to play for the 250th anniversary of the U.S. military, sharing his family’s military background.

• His father served during the Vietnam era and left early to care for his own father, a WWII vet.

• Gavin expresses deep respect for those who "do a harder thing for the rest of the public."

  “I love doing it. I feel like there's a percentage of the public that goes and does a harder thing for the rest of the public.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [02:18]

• Highlights how artists from all political backgrounds support the military, despite assumptions.

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2. Roots in the Catskills and Musical Upbringing

[02:59–05:38]

• Grew up in the Catskill Mountains, an area depicted in "Dirty Dancing."

• His great-grandfather was a dance instructor and emcee at Catskill resorts, once bustling with stars and later, transformed into a prison town.

• Family shifted from the hotel business to working for the state; Gavin’s father became a prison guard.

  “And the sad part is that the hotel industry came to a slow halt, and...it became a prison town. So I grew up in the prison town era of the Dirty Dancing area.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [04:03]

• Gavin's father was a talented singer and guitarist, influencing Gavin’s musical aspirations.

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3. The Moment Music Became a Calling

[05:38–06:32]

• An “aha” moment at a Billy Joel concert showed Gavin that music could heal and connect people.

• Shifted from a desire to be a doctor to pursuing music, realizing performance wasn’t selfish but service to others.

  “That's when it first dawned on me that playing music wouldn't be a selfish thing...music is medicine.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [05:41]

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4. Lessons in Regret and Motivation

[06:42–07:27]

• Gavin’s father reveals regret about quitting music, telling Gavin he would change nothing except continuing to play.
• This motivates Gavin to chase his dream:

  “I never would have stopped playing music...I love it so much.”
  — Gavin DeGraw, quoting his father [06:43]

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5. Hard Knocks: Early Gigs, Rejection, and Perseverance

[07:42–11:12]

• Played bars from age 15, which exposed him to adult life and built his confidence.

• Auditioned for acting gigs in New York—booked nothing, but learned not to fear rejection.

  “A great lesson for me because I learned how to get rejected. But you don't ever learn to like getting rejected.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [08:44]

• Shared a crucial insight from an Olympic wrestling coach:

  “It's always the number two...the guy who always wins, doesn't know how to lose...once he finally does lose, he quit.”
  — Gavin DeGraw, via James the coach [10:01]

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6. Industry Breaks and Turning Down "Bad" Deals

[11:06–13:14]

• At age 20, nearly signed a deal with RCA but rejected it after his attorney called the contract "suicide."

• Demonstrated rare self-assurance by choosing long-term integrity over immediate gratification.

  “I really appreciate the offer. I think that's really more a reflection on me...I need to work harder. I need to be better. So I'm going to go get better.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [13:16]

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7. Persistence in NYC, Family Support, and Luck

[13:36–15:46]

• Moved to New York City with his brother, struggled with dead-end gigs, and faced more rejection.

• Wanted to quit, but his father pushed him to make another demo, even promoting Gavin door-to-door as his agent.

  “He took that tape, man, and he walked all around that neighborhood...my son is the greatest singer.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [15:01]

• Secured new gigs, gradually built a following, and caught the attention of music legends.

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8. Nile Rodgers, Clive Davis & A Defining Decision

[16:56–21:23]

• Caught a break playing at Wilson’s Head (NYC); legendary producer Nile Rodgers hears him, and they record a demo.

• Ultimately, another "bad" production contract is offered; Gavin again turns it down.

• Courted by J Records (Clive Davis) and receives a phone call from legendary Ahmet Ertegun the same day, which he describes as "beyond compare."

  “Same day...two of the biggest powerhouses in music. My dad was right.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [21:23–21:27]

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9. One Tree Hill Theme & The Commercial Breakthrough

[22:19–25:27]

• Shares the story of being approached to use "I Don’t Want To Be" as the theme for "One Tree Hill."

• Initially rejects the idea, thinking TV is "lame," but reconsiders after hearing the financial upside.

• Credits this opportunity with launching him as a household name and opening the door to future commercial success.

  “It opened the door for me in an unbelievable way. You know, it made you a household name.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [22:14–22:21]

  “Once you have that first song, at least you have an opportunity...you’re just thankful for the opportunity.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [25:12]

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10. Business Philosophy & Industry Insight

[25:27–25:49]

• Stresses that show business is, ultimately, about people, regardless of fame or money.

  “Every business, I don't care what brand it is, how big it looks, how much money is involved in it. They're just people. They work there.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [25:40]

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11. Current Projects, Touring, and the Joy of Performance

[25:49–28:55]

• Not a fan of the beach—"I'm a low humidity fan"—prefers mountain life, hence the focus on his upcoming “Winter Mountain Tour,” preferring intimate venues in ski towns.

• Details performing solo or as a duo, favoring storytelling in small spaces.

• Reveals plans for a Christmas song and tour with Colbie Caillat.

• Expresses joy in a career spanning three decades and his excitement for future projects.

  “I go out on tour for two months without checking in a bag...I've been doing this since I'm about 15...I love it, and I still love it. There’s nothing like it.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [27:53–28:13]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Music is medicine. This, this is something that helps people.”
  — Gavin DeGraw [05:41]

• “I never would’ve stopped playing music.”
  — Gavin DeGraw’s father [06:43]

• “It’s always the number two...the guy who always wins, doesn't know how to lose...once he finally does lose, he quit.”
  — Wrestling philosophy relayed by Gavin [10:01]

• “If I sign this, I don't own this place. This place owns me.”
  — Gavin DeGraw (on avoiding a bad record deal) [13:13]

• “It opened the door for me in an unbelievable way...that is a career song.”
  — On “I Don’t Want To Be” as the One Tree Hill theme [22:14, 24:55]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:23 | Gavin discusses his military family connection | | 05:38 | The Billy Joel concert "music is medicine" revelation | | 06:43 | Father’s regret inspires Gavin to pursue music | | 10:00 | Lessons on handling rejection from wrestling coach | | 13:13 | Turning down first record deal at age 20 | | 15:01 | Father acts as agent, helps Gavin land NYC gigs | | 16:56 | Meeting Nile Rodgers, recording demo with all-star players | | 21:23 | Signing with J Records, phone call from Ahmet Ertegun | | 22:19 | The making of the One Tree Hill theme deal | | 25:49 | Gavin’s touring philosophy, mountain tour | | 28:31 | Upcoming projects, Christmas tour with Colbie Caillat |

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, open, and humorous with both men sharing stories, personal philosophies, and gentle ribbing. Gavin’s humility and grounded outlook set the tone, balancing nostalgia for his roots with gratitude for his career.

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Closing

Gavin DeGraw’s episode is a masterclass in perseverance, artistic integrity, and authenticity. Whether discussing family, industry rejections, or the big breaks that shaped his destiny, Gavin reminds listeners that success comes from hard work, gratitude, resilience, and just a bit of luck—plus a willingness to turn down even the shiniest offer if it’s not right.

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Listen to the full episode for more behind-the-scenes stories and upcoming tour details. For tour dates and new music, visit gavindegraw.com.

Transcript

[Gavin Degras]

I walk in, I see this beautiful statue of Ellis Presley and I'm impressed by the place. But I know if I sign this, I don't own this place. This place owns me.

[Troy Volhofer]

You were thinking those thoughts at 20?

[Gavin Degras]

I did. I said I really appreciate the offer. I think that's really more a reflection on me. I think what it says is I need to work harder. I need to be better. So I'm going to go get better.

[Troy Volhofer]

Welcome back to on the Bus with Troy Volhofer. Today we have one of the nicest guys in the music industry joining us, Gavin degras. He's such a unique sound. His powerful vocals and incredible piano playing. Gavin's breakout debut album Chariot was re released last year for his 20th anniversary and this featured reimagined smash hits like Follow through and and I Don't Want To Be. He has a winter mountain tour he is about to start and a summer tour with Oar coming up in 2026. Please welcome Gavin Degr. Gavin Degr, welcome to the West Wing.

[Gavin Degras]

Hey, thanks for the invite. Troy.

[Troy Volhofer]

On the bus at Country Thunder. How you doing?

[Gavin Degras]

Beautiful. Nice to be here. Colder in Nashville than I was expecting, I have to tell you.

[Troy Volhofer]

It sure is. I mean we got, we kind. I was snowing yesterday.

[Gavin Degras]

That's what I hear.

[Troy Volhofer]

Kind of feels like Montana, doesn't it?

[Gavin Degras]

Oh, I mean, you wish.

[Troy Volhofer]

So what are you doing in town? What are you doing in Nashville, Tennessee?

[Gavin Degras]

I came here to, to play the 250th anniversary of the U.S. military.

[Troy Volhofer]

Awesome.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah, so. So Marine Corps. It's big, big Marine Corps. Big military stuff happening right now. 250th we were just in Fort Hood. We did an event in, in Fort Hood just outside Austin, Texas.

[Troy Volhofer]

So what's your military background like, your family, your father?

[Gavin Degras]

Not for me personally.

[Troy Volhofer]

Wasn't your father in the military?

[Gavin Degras]

My dad was, yeah, my dad was during the Vietnam War era. Ended up being shipped off to Germany on base there and then sent to West Point because his father was, I think, going through some post stress stuff from World War II.

[Troy Volhofer]

Sure.

[Gavin Degras]

My dad went in, he seemed like his father was doing right and then got discharged early to take care of his dad.

[Troy Volhofer]

That's wow.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah.

[Troy Volhofer]

So is that kind of where your inspiration comes to support the military? You go play a lot of gigs on a lot of different bases.

[Gavin Degras]

Man, I love doing it. I love doing it. I feel like there's a percentage of the public that goes and does a harder thing for the rest of the public and that's. That's what they're doing.

[Troy Volhofer]

I commend you so much for doing that. That's such a true American. Unbelievable thing.

[Gavin Degras]

You give me too much credit. Happy to do it. And I think a lot of artists are out doing it. A lot more than people realize are doing it. You know, some artists who. They may lean one way or the other, people think they're still not patriotic, but they are. These a lot of people from all different political teams.

[Troy Volhofer]

Yes.

[Gavin Degras]

As it were. Are showing up and playing on the bases and supporting the troops, and it's really nice to see.

[Troy Volhofer]

Let's go back to the start of your music career.

[Gavin Degras]

Sure.

[Troy Volhofer]

Where are you from originally?

[Gavin Degras]

I'm from the Catskills. Catskill Mountains of New York State. Have you seen Dirty Dancing?

[Troy Volhofer]

Absolutely.

[Gavin Degras]

Okay, so Dirty Dancing is based on the area I grew up in. I grew up in Right in the Catskills. And it's based on the culture that. Hotel culture, that resort hotel culture from the Catskill Mountains. The Patrick Swayze character in Dirty Dancing, my brother likes to say, is based on my great grandfather who was a dance instructor in the Catskill Mountains.

[Troy Volhofer]

Really?

[Gavin Degras]

Because he was a dance instructor at a place called the Laurels.

[Troy Volhofer]

Gotcha.

[Gavin Degras]

He was a dance instructor, and he was the emcee of all the shows at the. At the lounge, at the nightclubs. Wow. So I had these great pictures of him with, you know, Sam Cooke and EL Fitzgerald and all these stars. And in fact, there's a film of him giving dance instruction outside on the pool deck. But the irony is that. And the sad part is that the hotel industry came to a slow halt, and the hotel slowly went out of business over time, and it became a prison town. So I grew up in the prison town era of the Dirty Dancing area.

[Troy Volhofer]

Where it was glorious and glamorous at one time.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah, absolutely. That's right. And now the big. The big jobs provider up there now is. Is the state.

[Troy Volhofer]

Gotcha.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah. So my dad was a prison guard, and my uncle was a prison guard, and my other uncle. Did you know prison. Psych.

[Troy Volhofer]

So how did music come into your life?

[Gavin Degras]

Well, my father was a killer singer. Killer singer. And a good guitar player. Rhythm player.

[Troy Volhofer]

What was his vibe like? What was his. What was his genre?

[Gavin Degras]

He loved to play. He was more like a. More like a band like Chicago. And his voice was higher and thinner. Very much a natural Irish tenor. Somewhere between a. A McCartney and a Sting. Okay, right. Yeah. And that's where a lot of the. My pursuit of music came from was growing up hearing about my dad's band, you know, when he was younger and playing all the nightclubs at the. At the hotels when they were bustling in the heyday of that, of that area. And there are a few things that happened career wise before it was a career for me, though I wasn't the greatest student. For some reason, I really wanted to be a doctor. And I think it's probably because we grew up so religious and I thought, I want to make the blind see like Jesus did, you know? So it was a real fantasy for me, particularly as a B student. So anyway, I'm 15 years old. We go to a Billy Joel show, the family. That was at a place called the Knickerbocker arena in Albany, New York.

[Troy Volhofer]

Albany, New York.

[Gavin Degras]

That's right.

[Troy Volhofer]

The home of the River Rats.

[Gavin Degras]

That's right. And so as we go to that show, and that was our Christmas present that year. And that's when it first dawned on me that playing music wouldn't be a selfish thing to do. I thought playing music was selfish. You know, I thought, I like it, but maybe two other people like it. That's. That's that. When I saw these strangers around me watching the show, overjoyed. It's the first time it occurred to me that I thought, wow, music is medicine. This, this is something that helps people. It's helping me. It's helping whoever these people are here. I don't even know these people, you know, and it's the first time I thought, that's what I'm going to do for a living. This will help people. And I like it. And so we got in the car after the show. I told my family, I know what I want to do for a living. And I said, I'm going to do that. That was it. And I was about 19 years old, so.

[Troy Volhofer]

Did you play piano already?

[Gavin Degras]

I played okay. And I sang pretty good, but. And I played piano okay. Just, just enough to feel like I could support myself.

[Troy Volhofer]

Sure.

[Gavin Degras]

I take a ride with my dad, local ride with my dad. And I said to my dad, I'm sitting in the passenger seat. I'm not probably 19. I said, if you could change anything about your life, what would it be? And he goes without hesitation. I never would have stopped playing music. He's driving, he goes, yeah, I had it, you know, I knew I had it. Just, I never would have stopped. I love it so much. You know, he was about my age at the time now. Right, right. Telling me that. And I remember as we were driving, the first thing I thought when he said that was I don't want to have that regret.

[Troy Volhofer]

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah. But I was at an age to. To really hear what was coming out of his mouth.

[Troy Volhofer]

So how did it start? Like, how did. Where did your break come? What was the point where it was like, I've got an opportunity here, and this is it.

[Gavin Degras]

I was playing bars, you know, since I was a kid. You know, for 15, 16, I started playing bars with my brother. And my dad was cool in that way. Yeah. Probably in some way, he was particularly cool with it because he loved drinking.

[Troy Volhofer]

Yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

So, you know, instead of, you know, playing ball, and I played ball and all that stuff, all the kids played ball, but I quit playing ball, and I want to play bars, and that's fun. And that's how I was spending my. My teenage nights. And I thought that was. Oddly enough, you may disagree. A lot of people may disagree. Everyone in AA will disagree. But I thought that was a very good education because I was around adults who were outside of my family and. And from playing in ballrooms. I ended up meeting a couple, John and Tammy Pratt. They had a kid who. Who was a child actress, and they saw me playing at some bar, and they said, hey, you know, we. We. We love what you're doing. Would you ever consider doing any acting work? Hell, yeah. Whatever that is. Let's just do that. What? You know, sure. Like, get me out of here. It opened up the necessity to go from my small town to New York City, spend time trying to go to auditions. I didn't get anything. I booked nothing. But that was a great lesson for me because I learned how to get rejected. But you don't ever learn to like getting rejected.

[Troy Volhofer]

Great lessons in getting rejected. If you're not a quitter, it's. It's a. It's a great lesson. If you're a quitter, then the dream's over.

[Gavin Degras]

That. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And, you know, I spent a little time with a guy, this guy James. I knew he was a wrestling coach for the U.S. olympic team, and he's passed. Now one day, I say to James, how do you make a champion? And before I could let him answer it, I said, how do you really do it? Because I was excited to hear from this guy. I said, do you just go to. Just scout out Division 1 schools and find the most dominant alpha? And he goes, you know, funny enough, Gavin, that is never the guy.

[Troy Volhofer]

Really?

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah. Wow. I said, then who's the guy? He goes, it's always the number two. Guy, the guy who always wins, doesn't know how to lose. And once he finally does lose, he quit.

[Troy Volhofer]

Shatters him.

[Gavin Degras]

He quits. He's not built for it.

[Troy Volhofer]

His philosophy was spot on. So how does that pertain to your career?

[Gavin Degras]

Well, I got told no all the time. It's not like they would. They didn't say, oh, you suck. They'd say, we're marketing this thing right now. Right. We're marketing that thing right now. And that could have to do with the way you look, the type of music you make, and none of it is really based on potential or talent. We're in an industry of when you're making music for. And it has to apply in a commercial sense.

[Troy Volhofer]

So who believed in you Bigger? Who gave you your shot?

[Gavin Degras]

I was 20 years old before I moved to New York. I had an offer from RCA Records. At the time, I was working at a lumber yard in upstate.

[Troy Volhofer]

Yeah, but you have a record deal potential. Record deal.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah, but, you know, man, it's true in some ways. Yeah, you're right. But I was, you know, I was working at a lumberyard for a little while and, you know, packing trucks and packing together prefab kitchens. So when this. This thing came along and it was a bad offer, I said to the guy, and he was, did you have.

[Troy Volhofer]

Like, an agent or anything?

[Gavin Degras]

At that time, I still had this couple that I had met at that bar in upstate New York.

[Troy Volhofer]

Right.

[Gavin Degras]

How this thing came was I had made a tape in my room. Remember those? Oh, absolutely.

[Riley Greene]

Yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah. When I was done carving the Ten Commandments, I made a tape. And so anyway, I took this tape and I played it for this couple, and they said, hey, we really like this. And. And they were listening to it on set of this film that their daughter was making, and they said that the people on set really liked it. One of the people was head of A and R at RCA at the time. Next thing you know, I'm playing a gig at the Bitter End on Bleecker Street, 147 Bleecker. My first New York City gig ever.

[Troy Volhofer]

It's an iconic joint.

[Gavin Degras]

Iconic, iconic joint. Absolutely iconic. And so I play this gig. They offer me this deal, you know, soon after. And had a great attorney that my managers had introduced me to with the greatest name. Her name was Micheline Levine. They presented me with this offer, and it was just not a good deal. It was a developmental.

[Troy Volhofer]

Yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

And I. I turned it down. You know, a month earlier, they told me that they think I'm the next Paul Simon. And then they gave me this contract. I said, I'm not seeing anything with Paul Simon. Would Paul Simon never sign this deal?

[Troy Volhofer]

Yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

Yes, exactly.

[Troy Volhofer]

You know I'm gonna forget about it.

[Gavin Degras]

Exactly.

[Clint Block]

So.

[Gavin Degras]

So I said to Micheline, hey, what do you think of the deal? She said, I think it's suicide. I said, you heard the lady. You know, I said, to be honest with you, I. I appreciate the offer tremendously. I can see that when I walk in this building, it's very impressive. I see this beautiful statue of Elvis Presley and I'm impressed by the place. But I know if I sign this, I don't own this place. This place owns me.

[Troy Volhofer]

You were thinking those thoughts at 20.

[Gavin Degras]

I did. And I said to the guy, I said, I really appreciate the offer. I think that's really more a reflection on me than on, on you. I think what it says is I need to work harder. I need, I need to be better. So I'm going to go get better and then we'll talk another time.

[Troy Volhofer]

Not many folks have done that, right? I mean, they're just sign that deal.

[Gavin Degras]

They would have signed the deal. I think you're. I think you're right. I think you're right. So months and months later, I moved to New York City into a one bedroom apartment. My brother and I rented it in Hell's Kitchen.

[Troy Volhofer]

So what year would this been?

[Gavin Degras]

March 4, 1998. Used to drink at a place called Rudy's Bar and Grill on 9th Avenue. Love the place because it was five dollar pictures.

[Troy Volhofer]

Right?

[Gavin Degras]

Free hot dogs, free chips, free peanuts.

[Troy Volhofer]

Perfect.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah. When you're broke. Yeah, that's it.

[Troy Volhofer]

That's it.

[Gavin Degras]

And I ate hot dogs there until I think I ate a finger. I think there was a finger in there, like a fingertip. I spit that thing out. I never had another. But I love the place. I love the place. I still love the place.

[Troy Volhofer]

Still eat hot dogs.

[Gavin Degras]

Oh, I'm not there, but. But I do still eat hot.

[Troy Volhofer]

That's awesome.

[Gavin Degras]

So anyway, it was a great neighborhood for us at the time. I was sharing a one bedroom with my brother, sleeping in the same room, and got some local gigs and got rejected, wanted to quit. My dad came down and my dad did the greatest thing. He said, make another recording. Make a tape. Make a tape. I said, no, I don't want to. I said, I want to quit. Maybe I'll go to law school or something. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're doing this. This is what you're doing.

[Troy Volhofer]

Oh, I love that. You know how Many fathers would have said, go to law school. Most of them, yeah. That's great inspiration.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah, he was right. So I made a tape. He took that tape, man, and he walked all around that neighborhood, and he would walk into bars and restaurants and say, my son is the greatest in singer.

[Troy Volhofer]

Seems like your agent.

[Gavin Degras]

Like my agent and better than your.

[Troy Volhofer]

Agent because he truly believed in you.

[Gavin Degras]

Like, more so than he really believed in me, man. Really believed in me. Next thing you know, he gets me a gig at this place on 48th Street. Two days a week. That's fine. Place is dead. I mean, dead. And I played there for a few months on my two, on my two days a week. Packed every week. Both gigs, right?

[Troy Volhofer]

You bring in the folks packed? Yep.

[Gavin Degras]

And next thing you know, I get a. A gig acting book. This small thing in Connecticut, a place called the Long Wharf Theater. And Al Pacino had just done a show there. You know, it's a very, very reputable place. So I said, hey, this is pretty cool. You know, what year would have this. That would have been 2000. So I'm doing this little thing. Next thing you know, I'm. This thing's more real than I consider thought it was going to be. And actually, you know, Stephen Schwartz is coming in. He's working with the cast. I mean, I'm like, this is pretty legit.

[Troy Volhofer]

You felt comfortable out there.

[Gavin Degras]

I did. Yeah. I did. We do the show. It went well. It didn't make it back to Broadway. They wanted to go back to Broadway. The show, it's called working. If I figure out the show's over, I'm out of work, I'll go back and start playing that gig again. Next thing you know, I can't get that gig again. I said, why? Why? You don't want to give me the gig again?

[Troy Volhofer]

The Italian joint?

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah. He goes, because he goes, why would we pay you? All these bands want to come and play for free now. Now they got an audience. No way. Swear to God. Really? Yeah.

[Troy Volhofer]

The guy kind of boned you, huh?

[Gavin Degras]

He did. So what I did was I went looking for another gig uptown that doesn't exist anymore. It was called Wilson's Head.

[Troy Volhofer]

How far uptown?

[Gavin Degras]

79Th in Amsterdam. So I land this gig at this place because I went to an open mic night, right? They had this great, like, soul open night, okay, Open mic night thing there. Like Phoebe Snow would pop in. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It was crazy. So I sat in with the house band, and next thing you know, and I just went up. I did One song. And I left my card at the host sand and then walked out. And the phone rang the next day and the woman said, I don't know who you are, but like, people said, he came in here last night and he sang and like, who are you and do you have time to meet? I said, yeah, sure. And we met up the owner of the place at the time and she said. She said, what's your goal? I said, I want. I want a gig. I said, I lost it. I had a gig. I lost a gig and I need a place to play. She saw purpose of what? I said, all I need is a place to play. It's going to be empty at first, but just give me one night a week and I promise you it's going to be busy. Just give me one night. Give me two months. She said, okay. A couple months later. Place is busy now. Rogers came in and he loved it. And we cut a demo with Nile Rogers. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So Niall was a guitar player.

[Troy Volhofer]

Oh, yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

And Jerry Barnes. Yeah, that's right.

[Troy Volhofer]

Oh, brilliant. David Bowie.

[Gavin Degras]

David Bowie.

[Troy Volhofer]

Oh, no. Let's dance. It was all. That was all him. I saw him open for Duran Duran about two years ago.

[Gavin Degras]

Oh, wow. Well, he produced Durand around, totally blown. He produced Durand, he produced Stevie Ray Vaughan, he produced Bowie. He. I mean, you name it. Yeah, you name it.

[Troy Volhofer]

Brilliant talent.

[Gavin Degras]

Ridiculous.

[Troy Volhofer]

So tell me more.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah, so. So we cut this demo. It's. It's me, Niall, Jerry Barnes on bass, Omar Hakeem's on drums. I mean, it was ridiculous.

[Troy Volhofer]

All star lineup.

[Gavin Degras]

Unbelievable.

[Troy Volhofer]

And this came from him walking in this club and seeing you play solo, just you and the piano.

[Gavin Degras]

I was probably playing with the pickup.

[Troy Volhofer]

Guys, you know, so there was actual band with.

[Gavin Degras]

You had killer players.

[Troy Volhofer]

Killer players.

[Gavin Degras]

Killer, killer players. And a contract hit my desk and I was like, you know, it was just another thing, like a production deal kind of thing. It didn't read well, is all I'm gonna say.

[Troy Volhofer]

I understood. Yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

So I was like, no, I'm out. And so I kept playing these gigs and next thing you know a guy named James Dehner, I started bringing people around. And at that time I was being sort of courted by sort of by J Records, which is Clive, Clive Davis, Clive's new record company. Right. At the time. And James was operating a subsidiary label of Jay called Octone. And at that time, Octone had just signed Maroon 5.

[Troy Volhofer]

Got it. And I was with, I think Jay Records. I think O Town was on Shape Records.

[Gavin Degras]

They were. They were. It was Alicia Keys, she was there. Buster Rhymes was there.

[Troy Volhofer]

Yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

And O Town. Great. Yeah, great. So I decided to sign with Clive because I liked how Clive was speaking language, speaking music language to me, which I appreciated. He was a song man. I was like, hey, I like this guy.

[Troy Volhofer]

He is a real music song man. Real man.

[Gavin Degras]

He's a song man. Which I admired tremendously, and I respected that. So on my way up to sign with. With J Records and with Clive, I missed a phone call. I listened to the phone call and it says, hello, Gavin. Hello, Gavin. I've heard about you. This is Agnet Ertigan from Atlanta. Please call me on my private line. And.

[Troy Volhofer]

You're kidding me.

[Gavin Degras]

So I signed the second day, but two legends, like the most legendary guys in the world.

[Troy Volhofer]

Absolutely 100 the most.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah.

[Troy Volhofer]

There's no modern music without these cats.

[Gavin Degras]

Funny, right? And so. No, that's why I was like, congratulations. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks.

[Troy Volhofer]

Thank you. I mean, because, man, that's. That's huge.

[Gavin Degras]

Like, it's huge.

[Troy Volhofer]

Yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah.

[Troy Volhofer]

Let's. Beyond compare, to be honest with you.

[Gavin Degras]

Isn't it?

[Troy Volhofer]

It blows my mind.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah.

[Troy Volhofer]

I had no idea.

[Gavin Degras]

No. Hey. Yeah. I never. I don't tell people this. I know. I'm telling you because I know you'll know what all this is. Right. And so. And so for me, I was. I was honored.

[Troy Volhofer]

Like, two of the biggest powerhouses in music.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah.

[Troy Volhofer]

Same day.

[Gavin Degras]

Same day. Yeah. Yeah. And. And, you know, I.

[Troy Volhofer]

My dad was right.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah, My dad was right. Yeah. Thank you. I mean, that means a lot to me. Thank you. Thank you. My dad was right. But the reason I signed with Clive is also taking into account that Ahmed Erdogan. Phone call. Clive was seeing me first. Ahmed was not. Not getting the information.

[Troy Volhofer]

Soon enough, he was reading the headlines. Yeah, he's reading the book.

[Gavin Degras]

That's exactly right.

[Troy Volhofer]

He's reading the book.

[Gavin Degras]

And I wanted to be in an. In a. In an environment where. Where someone had their ear to the ground.

[Troy Volhofer]

Tell me about the TV show. Because Nikki, who's kind of my. Right, yeah, man. She's like, that was my favorite TV show.

[Gavin Degras]

That's fun.

[Troy Volhofer]

Ever. And I've never seen the show, you.

[Gavin Degras]

Know, Shame on me. I can't say much about it because I've never seen it.

[Troy Volhofer]

You've never seen the show?

[Gavin Degras]

Never watched it. I don't really watch tv.

[Troy Volhofer]

But it banged that hit, though, didn't it?

[Gavin Degras]

Dude, it opened the door for me in an unbelievable way.

[Troy Volhofer]

You know, I made you a household name.

[Clint Block]

Oh, dude.

[Troy Volhofer]

Unbelievable.

[Gavin Degras]

At the time, the phone rang about that song and that show. I was living in the East Village. I was real, you know, at that point in my life, I don't know, I was getting a little snooty, like, about being, like, an art snob, you know what I mean? And this guy, he's on the other line. His name is Joe Devola. And just like the, you know, the. The character, Crazy Joe Devola from Seinfeld is from Joe Devola. Joe calls me, and I didn't know Joe. And at that time, I'm in the East Village. I'm walking on Avenue A, and I'm just outside of a place. I like to drink, you know, play pool. Not that was any good a pool, but. But I mostly played pool to. To have something. A stick to lean on while I was drinking. And so the. So the phone rings, and I pick up, and sure enough, this Joe Duvola and says, hey, is Gavin. I see it's Gavin. He says, is it Joe Devola? And I said, oh, hi, Joe. Hi, Joe.

[Troy Volhofer]

To Lola.

[Gavin Degras]

He goes, hey, and I like your song. You know, your songs, this and that. He's gave me a nice compliment, you know, whether he meant it at the time or not. Your song saved my life and really nicely buttered me up, you know?

[Troy Volhofer]

Yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

He goes, you know, I have this TV show, and. And I would love to use your music for it. And I said, I don't watch tv. No, thank you. And I. He goes, no, listen, I. I listen, I got this show, and. And I really want to use your song. I said, what song? He says, I don't want to be. I love the song, and it's perfect song for the show. I said, you know, I just. I don't. I just don't want to do that. Just sounds. Sounds tacky. I. You know, TV is lame, and, you know, I don't watch tv. Like, I said at the time, I was a real.

[Troy Volhofer]

You're an artist.

[Gavin Degras]

Really being a really snooty, you know, who watches tv? You know, I'm in New York. There's happening around here. You know, I'm.

[Troy Volhofer]

Why would we watch TV?

[Gavin Degras]

What am I, 80 years old? And he goes, let me ask you. Let me ask you something. How much money you got in bang? Not a lot. Not a lot. He goes, well, you gotta help me help you, Gavin. Help me help you. I was like, well, how much money are we talking about here, Joe? He's like, a lot of money is what I'm talking about. I said, really? He's like, yeah, we're not gonna touch the song. We're just gonna play your song. We're not gonna edit it. We're not gonna do this or that. We just want to play your song, Evan. That's gonna make you successful. I was like, okay, send over the.

[Troy Volhofer]

Contract, you know, but that's what broke the song, right?

[Gavin Degras]

It is, it is not.

[Troy Volhofer]

That is a career song.

[Gavin Degras]

Big time. Yeah, big, big, big time. So the second that the, the phone rang for another show, once the first one happened, I was just horned. I was like, oh, yeah, whatever. You want to do that one. Here's another song. You know, once you have that first song, at least you have an opportunity. Yeah. And you just, you know, you're just thankful for the opportunity. And, and you know, there, there's some people go, oh, well, you know, oh, it's a, it's a teen show. It's been associated with. I'm like, hey, man, it's success is what it is.

[Troy Volhofer]

You seem to have a very good grasp on the business side of show business.

[Gavin Degras]

Well, I appreciate that. I just feel like it's every business, no matter how big it is, it's just, it's just made up of people. It's just people.

[Troy Volhofer]

Yep.

[Gavin Degras]

Every business. I don't care what brand it is, how big it looks, how much money is involved in it. They're just people. They work there.

[Troy Volhofer]

So let's fast forward now to where we are today. Heading out on tour. We're in this mountain. This mountain.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah.

[Troy Volhofer]

Tell me about the mountain thing. I'm saying by that and well, I'm.

[Gavin Degras]

Not a beach guy, so that's part of it. You know, everybody says, I'm going to the beach, it's vacation, I go the other way. Right, right. I don't hate the beach. I just typically prefer the mountains, that's all. I'll show up to the beach. Don't get me wrong.

[Troy Volhofer]

Plus, you're a New Yorker.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ye, I, I, I, I'm a low, I'm a low humidity fan. I like cold weather climates. I want to, I want to ski and get drunk and, and campfire, you.

[Troy Volhofer]

Know, I love that. It sounds like a hot trick to me.

[Gavin Degras]

It's, hey, it's that, that's mountain life. Yeah, that's mountain life. So I talked to my, my team and I said, hey, I, you know how much I'll enjoy the mountains. How about if we just go play these little clubs or theaters or something in these ski towns with some time, that way I have an excuse to be there. I get to play these little tiny places, these, like, intimate spaces, and I can choose to go to a hotel or I can winter camp.

[Troy Volhofer]

Right. Is it a full band on this tour?

[Gavin Degras]

No, no, this will be mostly. Mostly duo or just me at the piano.

[Troy Volhofer]

Right.

[Gavin Degras]

Some of them maybe I'll do solo, some I'll do with me and a guitar player. But I like the storytelling element of the small space. I think less is more in a small space.

[Troy Volhofer]

You lived here for a while in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Gavin Degras]

Yep. Yep.

[Troy Volhofer]

And then New York.

[Gavin Degras]

I still have property here. I still have mine.

[Troy Volhofer]

Las Vegas.

[Gavin Degras]

I'm scattered, man. I called you.

[Troy Volhofer]

I called you one day and you were in Las Vegas.

[Gavin Degras]

Yes.

[Troy Volhofer]

What are you doing Las Vegas?

[Gavin Degras]

I'm trying to finish out.

[Troy Volhofer]

Montana, right?

[Gavin Degras]

Yes, Montana. Yeah. You know, I. I'm the most complicated, simple person you've met. I. I don't check a bag. I don't check a bag.

[Troy Volhofer]

I'll go out.

[Gavin Degras]

I go out on tour for two months without checking them back. It's been a long run, a long time, man. I've been doing this since I've out in ballrooms, since I'm about 15. So. Yeah, I'm 48 now, so that's a long time.

[Troy Volhofer]

Awesome.

[Gavin Degras]

I love it, and I still love it. I really do love it.

[Troy Volhofer]

Have you seen your eyes?

[Gavin Degras]

I love it. There's nothing like it. There's really nothing like it.

[Troy Volhofer]

No, there's nothing like show business. I. I agree with you.

[Gavin Degras]

I mean, I love it.

[Troy Volhofer]

So what are the plans in the Future for Gavin DeGras?

[Gavin Degras]

What do you plan, Schmans? You know what I mean? What are you thinking? No, the.

[Troy Volhofer]

What are you seeing?

[Billy Bob Thort]

The.

[Troy Volhofer]

I know you got a plan.

[Gavin Degras]

I. I just. I want to keep doing this, obviously.

[Billy Bob Thort]

I just.

[Gavin Degras]

I'm gonna release a Christmas song with Colby, Calais and I. We're doing a little tour as well. We'll do the west coast, she and.

[Troy Volhofer]

I. Oh, that's fantastic.

[Gavin Degras]

Yeah, man. And then I'll do the east coast Christmas run, and then after that and part of that mountain tour thing, I have to record new music.

[Troy Volhofer]

Yeah.

[Gavin Degras]

You know, and when it's done, I. I want to play you some stuff.

[Troy Volhofer]

I love it.

[Gavin Degras]

Who knows? I may even end up on a country thunder stage one of these days.

[Troy Volhofer]

Well, I got an idea.

[Gavin Degras]

If I'm lucky.

[Troy Volhofer]

No, no, no. I got an idea. So it's coming to light right now.

[Gavin Degras]

Let's go, baby.

[Troy Volhofer]

Let's get some ideas. But it's super cool. Thank you so much for coming over.

[Gavin Degras]

Thanks, Troy. I know you have a busy schedule anytime. Happy to be here.

[Troy Volhofer]

We've had some great moments this past year, and I'd like to thank all the guests that came on our show, and it was great to get deep and intimate into their feelings and their thoughts being on the road. So this is our fun segment of on the Bus in Calgary at Country Thunder. I was on the bus, and there's a knock at the door. There's a dude sitting there with cowboy hat on, and it's Clint Block. And he's like, hey, man, I'm coming over for a drink. So Clint came on the bus, and shortly after that, about 10, 15 minutes later, another knock at the door, and it's Riley Greene. We sat, we talked and talked about the state of the music industry. We just had a fabulous time. Some of my memorable moments of interviewing artists on the bus was how normal they are in a. Outside of the setting of being on the stage. I thought Blake Shelton was an amazing interview.

[Billy Bob Thort]

I remember after Austin came out, I got the chance to open for Hank Williams Jr. At one of those Fox theaters, and I think it was in Atlanta.

[Troy Volhofer]

Oh, yeah, Fox in Atlanta. Yeah.

[Billy Bob Thort]

Bigger than Hank Williams Jr. You know what I mean? And I was out there on stage, and I didn't really understand there's a difference in a Hank Jr crowd. Even though they might be the same crowd that would come to see me, when they come to see Hank Jr. They're already in a totally different mindset, and they're just rowdy, even for a theater. And I remember I stepped up to the microphone and I played a couple of songs, and I started to set up a song, and I was like, you know, this next song I want to play you guys. And I heard some guy in the back just go, man, just shut up and play it. Like you could hear it just echo through. And I remember thinking, you're right.

[Troy Volhofer]

The Old Dominion Boys were absolutely fantastic. How did you capture Canada?

[Riley Greene]

It took us by surprise, too. We were just telling this story as though, you know, we had break up with them out on the radio. The day before the festival, they had booked us at this stage. It was a pretty big stage, a big tent. And we started playing Break up with them. And it was crazy. Like, we were. We were taken aback by how loud everyone. People climbing on the shoulders and stuff. That was a big shock to us, too. We were like, how did we do this? Are we huge in Canada?

[Troy Volhofer]

You know, sitting down with Billy Bob Thort and JD from the Boxmasters. I thought that was a really cool Interview and discussion.

[JD from the Boxmasters]

This record, Dinosaur, that we made. And Dinosaur is all over the map musically. It's got, like, hard rock songs, it's got bluegrass songs, it's got all sorts of different genres of stuff. But, you know, it has a thread starting at the beginning, how us elder people, how we deal with, you know, technology and the social media and just how everything is changing and changing fast.

[Clint Block]

Yeah, it's like you get called a dinosaur because your favorite band is Cream or Traffic or somebody. And it's like, but wait a minute, we grew up in this stuff. You wouldn't have your music if it weren't for our generation. And so it's really just a thing about missing stuff. I mean, we talk in songs about, it would feel nice just to put a quarter in a payphone again sometimes.

[Troy Volhofer]

How true is that? We did not talk at all about his acting career because that was something that he doesn't talk about when he's out doing his music. So it's a pretty neat insight to his interest in the music business. One of the emerging artists I'm really looking forward to seeing in 2026 is Gavin Adcock.

[Gavin Adcock]

I wrote a lot by myself when I was starting out, and when I got up to Nashville, I started getting in rooms with a lot of people from different backgrounds and different places and different writing styles, and I've really enjoyed it. We've been writing some of the best songs I've ever written in the past three or four months.

[Troy Volhofer]

Early in the season, we did an interview. We weren't on the bus yet. We were in my house, but Gavin Adcock came over for a visit and an interview, and I think that he has everything it takes to be an absolute superstar.

[Gavin Adcock]

Festivals are really cool to me because if there's 12 to 20 acts on a festival, there's only a select of them that came there just to see me. And a lot of people don't know who I am when I get there, but that's great for me because I give them the opportunity to walk out of there and go, I don't know who that Gavin Adcock dude is, but we're going to see him again.

[Troy Volhofer]

When he was here, he was just starting out, kind of getting his chops, and by the end of the summer, he's a. He's a fortified headliner. So look forward to seeing Gavin in 2026. We were in Livingston, Montana. We were visiting Billy Bob and the Boxmasters. And it was after his show, and all of a sudden the door swings open and I think it's Billy Bob coming for a Visit. And John McEnroe walks on my bus and it's like, holy smokes, it's John McEnroe, the famous tennis player. Hey, man, what are you doing? And do you want a drink? And we had a drink and talked briefly and he was out of there. 2026 is going to be a banger. We have Gavin Adcock playing multiple Country Thunders. Lainey Wilson playing multiple Country Thunders. Zach Topp playing multiple Country Thunders. One of the greatest entertainers I have ever seen is Keith Urban. I think he's absolutely amazing and he crosses genres. He's an amazing artist and he's playing our show in Wisconsin and the Big Valley Jamboree, which is super cool, Brooks and Dunn legends and you gotta come out and see them. Then we have like, you know, some of the new kids, George Burge, Dasha, Billy Dean, Colin Ray, Lani Gardner. And that's just to name a few artists. So there's something for everybody. And check it out. Countrythunderww.com can't thank Gavin de Gras enough for joining me on today's show. He's such an incredible artist with such a different origin story than a lot of the folks we've talked to in the industry. Gavin's going to be visiting a mountain town near you this winter. You can check out his tour dates on his [e-mail] that's a wrap for season three, on the bus. I just want to thank you for supporting us at Country Thunder and rating and reviewing the show. Please drop us a comment on YouTube. We always love to hear from you. We'll be back in February to kick off season four. I'm Troy Volhoffer. As always, thanks for joining us on the Bus. Be sure to follow Country Thunder on all our social platforms. CountryThunder. We have new episodes dropping BI monthly. Make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you know when the new episodes hit the feed.