← On The Chain - Blockchain and Cryptocurrency News + Opinion
On The Chain - Blockchain and Cryptocurrency News + Opinion
Live Interview with XAO DAO – Fabio Marzella + Santiago Velez
01:18:04
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to on the Chain. This is Chip here with co host Jeff. Welcome everybody. Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you're coming in from. So joining us today we have two heavyweights in the XRP community, none other than the founders of Zaodao. We have Fabio Marzella, also with Santiago Velez. And chances are if you spend any time in the space at all, you probably have know their names or have at least heard their names. Fabio and Santiago aren't just early voices. They've really been leading and educating and driving key conversations around blockchain Chain really since the early days and kicking things off. We've got Fabio joining us all the way from Australia. We'll bring him in in a minute. G'. Day. You know him as the force behind the wave of Innovation XRP Conference which lit up the Gold coast last year. That was an event that Jeff and I had an amazing privilege of emceeing. And Fabio serves on the board of the XRPL Foundation. He helps the shape and talk about what the roadmap's going to look like, you know, guide funding, even champion open source community driven development. As the co founder of Zaodao, he has, he also had brings 20 years of leadership experience. He's excelled in fintech manufacturing, building teams, leading major negotiations everywhere from Australia to Italy, global trade strategy and driving product in Germany. And next up we've got the one and only Santiago Velez. He'll be joining us from the US And Santiago is a powerhouse in the web three world services manager Zhao and also co founder of Cindrix Solutions. He's tackled cool projects there, Flare futures, Nike Crypto Kicks, NCAA NFTs, and he helps major brands really kind of make their mark in blockchain. Also get this, he's also a nuclear engineer. Might have to quiz him on that. These days Santiago is all about building blockchain infrastructure at Block Digital Corp. He's also been a pillar of the XRP community, an investor since 2017. You may even caught him on Real Vision crypto. He also has a blockchain economic certificate from Wharton. But above all, favorite role being a husband, proud dad. He's got three amazing daughters. So with that said, get your questions ready, grab some coffee or depending wherever you are, your favorite cocktail and let's get started. Let's go.
- [02:18]
B
Welcome to on the Chain.
- [02:24]
C
Right? Welcome everyone. Chip, I'm excited for today's show. Just a quick note to everybody out there joining us. Give a quick shout out to where where you guys are tuning in from all of our Amazing viewers and listeners, whether you're on the podcast or here with us live on YouTube or X, give that quick shout out. We have people from coast to coast. Our second biggest followers. Follower. Followers. Subscription base is actually over there in Australia.
- [02:51]
A
So Australia, without further ado, let's bring them in. You got that drum roll ready, Jeff? Bring that drum roll. Let's go. Let's get the drum. Let's do it proper here. Done properly.
- [03:00]
C
All right, here we go.
- [03:01]
A
So joining us from the US and all the way from Australia, we have none other than Fabio and Santiago. Are you ready, Jeff?
- [03:07]
C
I gotta find it. They've hidden it.
- [03:09]
A
Never mind. We're gonna do it here.
- [03:10]
C
Everything's hidden.
- [03:12]
A
There we go. There we go, guys. Welcome to on the Chain. How you guys doing today? And good evening.
- [03:20]
D
Thank you. Thank you. Oh, well, thank you.
- [03:23]
B
Thanks for having us, guys. Appreciate it.
- [03:25]
A
Yeah, yeah. Great to have you excited to kind of break this down and kind of tackle everything. But I guess the first thing we as people start filing in here, I guess the first thing on everyone's mind is, you know, and I'll give you from your perspective, you know, what is Zao Dao? Just kind of give like a, you know, five, the 50 foot sort of view. Like, what is Zao? How did you guys come to found it? And first of all, you know, I'll throw this question to Defabio. Like, tell me a little bit about what is Zao Dao? You know, how did it come to be?
- [03:55]
D
So apart from the name, Zaldao was developed, if you want to call it that way, purely because we saw that there was a need for developers to have, I guess, a coagulate company or organization where the developers could put forward their proposals. What we've seen is also is that whilst there's a lot of great developers out there and great project that they need to do, they don't know exactly where to showcase this. These proposals. But more so the venture capitalists, where obviously money comes from, they did not know what kind of project they could invest into. So Zaldao eventually will act as that hub, if you want to call it, for the developers to showcase their projects and obviously the venture capitalists being able to see what's showcasing and hopefully get funding for it. So that's essentially what we're going to be.
- [04:50]
A
Nice. Santiago, you share a little bit perspective there as well.
- [04:54]
B
Yeah, you know, it started off with, as Fabio said, you know, trying to solve this problem where people are looking for resources or exposure and, you know, there's a Problem. Every ecosystem has, every project has a lot of, a lot of great ideas out there, but very difficult for people to get their voice, voice heard. For me, the Zao meant giving the community of the XRP ledger a concrete voice in a lot of things, which includes supporting the devs, which for a long time there's been no clear channel on how to do that. But after we saw the lawsuit versus Ripple versus SEC with John Deaton, we saw how powerful the XRP ledger community was and we said, okay, this is, this is a really powerful force that needs to be harnessed. It needs to be coalesced into something that can be used for so many good purposes, including supporting development, supporting investment, supporting marketing and communications. So when Fabio reached out to join this effort, I was, I was super excited because this sounds a major, major problem.
- [06:07]
A
Great. And then another thing I want to ask too is like when you think about Zao dao, right? It's a nice rhyming word, but we all know what a dao is, at least most of us do, right? But where did Zao come from?
- [06:19]
D
It's a Chinese word, believe it or not. Zao virtually means. There's a couple of meanings to means. Sorry, I'm escaping the words there. New ventures. It means exciting outcomes. So there's a variety of meanings to it. And I thought it was just sitting. Fitting fit for what we wanted to create and for what we wanted to provide to the community.
- [06:46]
A
Nice. So it does have a little meaning, but it does rhyme too. So that's also very fortunate. I don't know who came up with that, but I love it. It sounds good together.
- [06:54]
C
And you know what's interesting about that, I looked that up in Vietnamese. It also has a meaning and it signifies brightness or radiance.
- [07:02]
B
Oh, wow. Yeah, we're gonna use that.
- [07:06]
A
There you go. And Vietnamese, we can run down all languages, right? Chinese, Vietnamese, English. And English is just a cool word, right? It rhymes. That's funny because I thought maybe it had something to do because of xrp. You know how you say zerps? You know, Zao. It was kind of like a variation of that, but it's nice to know that there's a, an actual meaning behind it and it lends itself pretty well to what it is, you know, as far as what the. What about long term vision? What do you guys see long term? We'll get into some of how it works, you know, some of the governance and the membership. But what's your long term vision after, you know, kicking this off and getting started?
- [07:45]
D
Look, at the end of the day, Zado, it's infinite. Whatever we can use it, we, you know, whatever the community wants to use it, we can actually develop. I guess initially the way we want to create this is virtually by membership, by way of membership. But beyond that, obviously the Dao DAO might even look at becoming partners, if you want to call it, with some of the proposals that the developers put in and so basically generating some sort of income out of that as well. Beyond that, I guess as I mentioned, it's infinite. Now we could, you know, utilize the blockchains to come into this, into the systems. We could, you know, even, even help other organization outside of the ecosystem to use the Zao die governance. So as I said, the, the amount of, I guess, application of the Zao, it's beyond the AI comprehension.
- [08:40]
B
Yeah, I'll add to that. It for me. And this is the thing about the dao. Fabio and I, we started off as managers, but we really won't be the ones deciding the direction of the dao. So what the best we can do is offer suggestions and lead and help communicate something. I would like to see the Dow be, you know, for, for the audience. It's a for profit legal entity. This is not a foundation or a nonprofit. This is something we really want to bring value to all of our members. So to do that, there's so many ways that are unique to DAOs. For example, as Fabio mentioned, is taking investment positions in a lot of the projects that build on the XRP ledger. So as they grow, the DAO grows. And so in that way the community is aligned with the very projects that we're all investing in. That, that's something that's very obvious. And then, you know, putting XRP to use, the vast majority of XRP out on exchanges, out in wallets, sit dormant. They don't, it doesn't get used. And we don't think that, that it's, it's, it's not a store of value in our opinion. We think it's really the best payment digital asset invented. So we would like to put that to use, get yield from it, make it collateral for things like stable coins. So the application for the Zao Dao community to put its XRP to use is really, really powerful. And then of course branching out to these other chains, you know, these other networks have the same problem that our developers and our, our community has in terms of finding resources, connecting. So we want XRPL to be in front. We want it to be the one supporting these other networks. So that value flows through both our network and our community. So, you know, this, this could be huge.
- [10:37]
C
Yeah, that's, this is, this is really great. And you know, you kind of already touched on, you know, one of, one of the next questions which was going to be about, you know, going across, across chain. One of the things that I look at, you know, from I get a participatory perspective as someone that joins into the, into the Zaldao, you know, and then being able to generate rewards, like earning rewards. Many of the daos typically base are based off of a governance token and they'll sell the governance token to raise money for the treasury, for the organization's treasury. And then there's returns then generated and valuation of the token increases based on how, how the DOW invests and expands. The Zao DAO seems to be doing that differently because it doesn't seem like there's a plan for a governance token.
- [11:35]
B
I mean, look, look, there's over 10, 000 tokens out there, maybe more. You know, there's new tokens created every minute. We don't need a token. We have xrp. XRP is the token of our community. So we, that was one of the first things we talked about is, you know, what do we use to represent our voting power and the value that we accrue. And it's xrp, we have one. So it was really more a matter of how do we allow users, holders of XRP to express their governance will for the direction of the Dao in a fair way. That was really challenging and you know, maybe we'll get into the dynamics behind that. But we didn't think it was useful to have just another token. So we really want to incentivize the value accrual on XRP because that's our, that's our community. Many of us came to it as investors or holders or we might use it in our companies as for payments. So we think naturally that's, that's the best token to bring the value to.
- [12:45]
C
Go ahead.
- [12:46]
A
Good. I was gonna say. So tell us a little bit more. I know you guys kind of teased us a little bit, but tell a little bit more about how does the membership work. So somebody wants to get involved with Zaldao. We're going to take some questions too. We got some live questions we'll jump into that Jeff can kind of run through. But how does the membership work? I understand there's some an NFT involved. Tell us a little bit about that.
- [13:09]
D
Yep. So obviously the member links their wallet or Rather joins through the Isaldao webpage and obviously connects his wallet. The wallet is basically sorry, there's an NFT that it gets minted and NFT is connected to their wallet. So at any point of time do we touch the members wallet? Okay, so we don't control their xrp. We virtually do not have any control whatsoever. It's just the NFT that sits or resides in their wallet and that's basically what the membership, with the governance we're going to be using for voting and obviously for profit sharing and sent will probably go more in the technical side of things, how that works. But I think the community has to be well aware that we're not here to virtually you know, pry on anyone's members wallet to see how many XRP they've got in the wallet. It's actually for that, that point of time they're pseudo anonymous. So we don't even know, you know, who the members that connect who they are and what they do. So that's the most important thing. You know, we don't, we don't, don't pride on anyone's, anyone's wallet to identify who's the while or might not be the while. But that obviously comes down to the governance point of things where we've actually kept that as well from a voiding point of view. But I think Santiago will probably have a little bit more to, to add to that.
- [14:34]
B
Yeah, that. So first of all, kind of stepping back, the DAO is incorporated in the state of Wyoming under an LLC structure which is pretty unique. There's not many other DAOs who have that property to my knowledge, certainly none on the XRP ledger. And that framework is, is very special because it gives all of us as members ownership rights of the dow. Like property. Like you being a shareholder in a company or, or, or being a partner in, in owning a piece of real estate. This is real world asset ownership, right? So being a member of the DAO is like having a piece of the, of, of the llc. And then well to get that membership we do charge a ten dollar equivalent fee for every member. Now when I say ten dollars equivalent what I mean by that is it's paid in xrp. XRP is the center of our community. So a member pays $10 USD equivalent in XRP and then we mint an NFT and deposit it in their member wallet, their XRP ledger, main net wallet. And then what happens is every month, every, excuse me, every day prior to a vote, a governance proposal vote, we scan the XRP ledger to determine how many XRP do they have in their wallet? We don't ever take custody, we don't ever ask anybody to give us their xrp, we never will. So just watch out for scams. But we scan their wallet so that they, we can determine how many votes to give them and where we do all the governance is on the XRPL EVM sidechain. That's where all the governance tokens are minted. That's where all the votes and proposals are recorded for the, you know, so if you don't, you know, we don't expect you to trust us. We want you to be able to go on chain and see how your vote was recorded, how all the votes were recorded and how a proposal passed or failed. So all of those dynamics, they don't require ongoing XRP fees or anything like that. It's a one time membership fee and then from there it's really incumbent on the community to drive that treasury of XRP that we generate from the fee towards good purposes, towards investments, towards earning yield, all these kind of things. And then later on, you know, we'll talk a little bit about the kinds of investments we're, we're hoping to, to do that are completely independent from the fee that we hope to raise value for our community.
- [17:05]
A
So.
- [17:07]
C
So yeah, I get, I guess, you know, from that, you know, you actually just unpacked a lot and I, I'm looking into, you know, a couple different, you know, parts of the question. You know, the first part is really going to be on the revenue generating aspect of the DAO as a starting point for taking that and then investing into projects. If there's a cap of $10 per participating member, where does the rest of the revenue come from to then be able to invest in the projects? Because it seems to be limiting in terms of a revenue generator, especially in the initial stages based on a $10 cap, if it's a one time versus an ongoing membership. So if you could, if you could touch a little bit on that, that'd be helpful.
- [18:08]
D
Yeah, sure. I guess like any, anything we need to start from some way. So we do hope that the community will support the Zodao and we'll have quite a lot of members coming on board that allow us to put some funds or some of these funds away for grants. The long term, and I wouldn't say long term, but probably the next six months long term, if you want to call it that way, we will be looking obviously of having an additional income stream for the Zodao and that's basically what we call the Zao Hub. And the hub is virtually a port of call for developers that want to match make themselves with other developers or marketers or venture capitalists and vice versa. And so that matchmaking is virtually attributed to a cost when the matchmaking is attained. And those funds obviously will go back into the treasury of the Zaldao. So that's virtually within the community. So we want to make sure that the community or developers, whoever may be the case, that don't feel comfortable how to promote themselves to a venture capitalist or how to market their product. So that's the hub that we want to create, where we're going to have this matchmaking for it. And I guess the good thing about the Zao Hub is that it's not limited to the XRP community. It's virtually agonistic. So virtually it's open to the whole community, to the whole ecosystem. And that's the idea of virtually capturing everybody else within the ecosystem. And I won't say converting them then to own xrp, but virtually let them understand that Zao Hub is not just the, for the XRP community, but visually for everybody in the ecosystem.
- [19:53]
C
That's really awesome. So that guess then goes to the next part of the question that I would, that I would have in and around that, which are, which is the project development side. So how would developers of projects, you know, and then on the VC side, but let's focus more on the project side, you know, how would they then get involved with and be able to pitch their ideas to the Dao? And from that, does it have to go through a specific vote first within the community before they're open up to vc? Especially if they're using the hub, do they have to be approved by, by the Zao membership or do they then get to go in front of vc? Like how, how would that part work?
- [20:45]
B
Yeah, I'll take this one. So I'll just make a few things clear to kind of separate what we're talking about. So the original question regarding what other revenue sources the Zao might have, obviously the, the treasury that we grow from, the members could earn yield and be invested in, in other products. And let's pretend that we as a community decide we want to invest in a developer on the XRP ledger. Right. Maybe somebody making a new product. We, Fabio and I are not gatekeepers. We don't make that decision. Right. So that developer, they would come to the Zao Dao website, they would submit a proposal to the community for a vote. If the community approves that vote in that proposal, there might be details about how much money they need to go and do their project right? And, and there might be an application process for, for how that grant would, would look like, you know, an explanation of the project and the costs and things like that. If it's then incumbent on that developer or that individual to go out and solicit and engage with the rest of the community to explain to us why this is a worthy endeavor and then if they are successful in doing that and it passes, then those are funds are allocated from the treasury at that time the Dow Dao as part of the deal, quote unquote. It may look like a seed of seed fund or you know, seed stage investment. And it, you may, the Dow may decide that it's worth taking a position of some interest in this developer's company or the product. So if the product is successful, then the Zao is the beneficiary of those, of those, of that, of those rewards. It may not be a seed type investment, it may just be here's a grant where you take the money and the value that that product is going to accrue is going to be good for everybody on the XRP ledger. And therefore we just think it's a worthy grant to, to get. Now the other thing we were talking about, the Zow Hub, that's really, as Bobby said, a matchmaking engine. It's, it's a product that the Zao Dao owns and the Zao Hub will allow a developer to connect with anyone else on the Zao Hub. We, we don't define who's allowed to be on that hub. We just do specify certain categories. You know, there's investors, there's marketers, whatever the specialty, we will have ways for our users on the Zo Hub to tell us, tell the rest of the community who they are and what kind of services they offer. Once they get matched, the Zao Hub application charges a fee for that matching and that fee then goes to the Zao Dao. So it's a revenue, a source of raising revenue through the matching and matchmaking which then later on can be invested. Now once two individuals match, it's really incumbent on them to decide their relationship that VC want to invest in the dev or does the marketer want to have a contract with the VC and the devs? It's really up to them. Our, we kind of extricate ourselves from that once the match is complete. So that's kind of the two. The difference between maybe a Zhao direct investment and A match on the Z.
- [24:06]
C
Hub and you would give, you'd give projects an incentive to participate with both potentially.
- [24:16]
B
Oh absolutely. And it's really the community will decide if they see the value of that and we can all advocate. So if you know of people who've been trying to build on this network for a long time and haven't been able to get the resources, we encourage you to have them put in proposals for vote on the Zao Dao so that the community can see them in the first place, get the kind of exposure they've been looking for and then get, get that investment going. Let's get this network going in terms of wallet creation and development because that's. Those are the two main metrics that have been shown consistently to drive long term value for a digital asset and that that's what we're here to do for xrp.
- [24:59]
A
I have a couple questions about the voting itself. Some things you touched on there. So when let's. So I pay my equivalent of $10 in XRP I become a member of the Zaodao and that NFT is in whatever wallet, whether it's cold storage or if it's on an exchange. When I actually have that nft, what are the terms of how my voting works? How much XRP do I need to have there? What is that XRP value that I'm actually having that wallet? How does that work in the voting process? Fabio, how does that work?
- [25:31]
D
So you only need one XRP believe it or not. So one XRP equals one vote. So I guess the more XRPs you have, the more voting power you have. But we've kept it. So we kept it in order not to have virtually big XRP holders to virtually veto any sort of voting that's out there. So we're trying to give every single member out there a level playing field and have an opportunity for everyone to vote and not to be obviously over I guess taken over by, by whales if you want to call it that way. So once the vote is, is cast we need 51 of of the voting to be, to be of the members sort of data back you we will count all the, all the XRPs of the members that are on the, on the on the Dao and virtually we need 51% of I guess yes votes for the proposal to go past. If, if it doesn't go past then obviously the, the proposal is void. If there is a equal voting of yes and no's the proposal doesn't go past either. So you know it is quite Fair. And I guess that's how you. You would need. So the more, the more xrp, I guess the more XRP you have in your wallet up to the cap, I guess you got the more voting rights.
- [26:55]
A
So it's interesting because we think about like the. When we get an amendment passed in the XRPL, I think it's like 80%, but this is just a simple majority. So that 51% will go ahead and pass. So once something passes, somebody writes up a proposal and they may say, hey, look, I'm working on this new project and maybe it's not a grant, maybe there's a potential stake that Zao Dao could take in that by making that initial investment. Is there any other terms around maybe like, let's say some people listening out there or devs who may be thinking about writing some proposals if you were to take a stake in it. I understand, we all understand how a grant works. You get the money and like, great, you know, for the greater ecosystem. But let's suppose somebody. And again, I'm not asking to think through it, but is that something we go back to the community on how the terms would work, or you think the developer would, would spell that out? Santiago, what are your thoughts on that?
- [27:46]
B
Yeah, you know, I think whatever the initial proposal was and assume that it's approved, there's going to be a lot of detail that may be missing. Right. So that would mean that maybe other proposals have to be put forth to fill in those details. Right. There may be a vote. Like, for example, they asked for a certain amount of money. That's one condition. And maybe people were willing to give that amount of money towards the investment. But there might be another condition that's appropriate, which is to say The Dow wants 5% of the company that we're giving the money to. I don't know, I'm just making something up. In that case, another proposal would have to be put forth to kind of ratify or finalize the first one to just make a complete deal. And in that case, Fabio and I would intervene probably directly with the whomever put the proposal forth and try to mediate that on behalf of the community and try to get that consensus so that we could move quickly. Right. Because you don't want this to lag for a long time while terms are being negotiated. So in that case, you know, as a result of this show, I'm thinking now it would probably be a good thing to have a boilerplate or a template that developers and so forth could use to submit their proposal in the first place kind of shortcut this process. But you know, at the end of the day, the community really does have to decide on quite a few things that we, in our operating agreement, Fabio and I can't decide by law. Right. So that's something we haven't mentioned is when you become a member, you get a copy of the operating agreement that we maintain on behalf of the dial, which tells all the rules that apply. You know, how profits are distributed, how votes are distributed, and all your property rights, how they're defined. Because remember, this becomes part of your estate. So this is an asset like your home or your stocks or, or your xrp. This is something that you add that will accrue in value over time. So you want to make sure that your ownership fraction in the DAO is in your state and it's part of your inheritance and those kind of things.
- [29:54]
C
So yeah, that, that's a, actually something to stake that claim or to show representation of the claim in the dow. That would be the nft. So when you're talking about the increase in value of your position in the dao, that would reflect back to your specific nft. Is that what, that's what's connecting it back? Is that how you would relate that?
- [30:20]
B
I, I would think so. Because when we do a scan of the XRP ledger to determine who's a member, that scan is looking for that NFT token. And if a particular wallet does not have an NFT token, you're not counted for two purposes. You're not counted for the determination of your voting power and you're not counted for the distribution of profits and losses as an llc. Legally, it's what they call a pass through legal entity, which is the prop. Net profits, for example, of the llc, they go back to the individual members unless the membership decides that it wants to take those profits and reinvest them at the end of the year. So as an asset owning a piece of the, the membership dow, the llc, you're essentially counting on those future pass through earnings, right? So if it's something that it's in your estate, if the DAO is very successful and you have a fairly large amount of XRP you've accumulated, the DAO should be giving you kind of residual income into perpetuity as long as it's running. So that can be very valuable. And that kind of passive income is, is a nice thing to have in this very volatile crypto space. So yeah, you want to, to answer your question, the NFT is definitely the way we would Denote your ownership. The challenge is, if you have multiple wallets, which many of us do, which wallet do you put your NFT in? And we're working very hard with exchanges to make sure that people who keep their XRP on exchanges, which I don't recommend, by the way, but if you decide to, we give you credit for your votes and credit for this profit that's due to you. We're working very hard to get the exchanges to work with our systems to allow that.
- [32:14]
C
Yeah. So, and I guess the one thing that I would ask for a little bit more clarification on and it's going to come down to the yield, but the valuation. So if all members are paying that $10 in what is denoting and determining yield payout? So when we look at value, is it based off of voting power or is it based out off of participation in project? Is there going to be a fund call, you know, four members say, here's a project. Everybody, you know, we're putting in a stake of a million dollars in xrp. Everybody has an opportunity now to stake X. We're going to do a fundraise round. If you, if you participate in the fundraise round, fundraise round, this is what the yield payout's going to potentially be based off of success or, you know, failure of the project. You know, how. So how exactly is that determination made? That I think needs a little bit of clarification.
- [33:20]
B
I'm going to say yes, meaning everything you just said in one way kind of applies and I'll, I'll break that down. So the membership fee that we collect in the beginning will establish an initial treasury for the dao and that treasury can then be put to purposes like we discussed before. We could stake it on a, on a protocol to earn yield from it, you know, like fx, FXRP on Flare Network, for example, or Doppa Finance, where there's arbitrage that's done online to earn more xrp. There's so many great examples coming out now where you could put your XRP to work. So Fabio and I intend to put forth proposals to the community to vote on where we put our treasury so that we can go put that XRP to work. Because a lot of people, that's complicated for them to work through and they're, they're worried that they'll do it wrong. So we'll take the responsibility of doing that for the DA's treasury. The second is funds that are earned from these investments, whether it's in the ZAO hub fee that gets collected that goes in a separate pot or it's direct investments in community projects that they then go on to earn income that goes into the Zaldao's treasury. So now you have this kind of pots that you can go and invest. Now depending on how many, how much XRP you have in your membership wallet will determine what fraction of those revenues you get back at the end of the year. And if we want to distribute profits back to the community. Right, and I don't decide that, Bobby doesn't decide that the community will decide. If at the end of the year we have say $10 million that is net income, the community say well give us that money back. We want that money back in our wallets and we're going to use the XRP ledger to do batch payments back into people's wallets. So that, that's really going to be a decision for the community. And then that, that's why they call it a pass through entity because those funds will go directly back to the members and it'll go back to them in proportion to the amount of XRP that they have in their wallet below a cap. Just like Fabio mentioned earlier, we didn't want a few whales kind of dominating the governance and we don't want a few whales dominating, taking their share of those port profits. So we have a cap for the amount of profits that you can get back as it relates to all the other members. So let's say the four of us were a dow. You know, if Chip had a hundred times everyone else on the call of XRP he would be capped at a certain point. In relation to our XRP, I think it's at 0.1% of the total available XRP in the community, in the membership. That's the, that's the most a whale could kind of scoop up of the profits. So we did that.
- [36:17]
C
Yeah, sure, that part confuses me a little bit. Mainly because you're, you're still, you know, putting out a, a request of ten dollar investment regardless of the amount of XRP you have. The amount of XRP you have in your wallet is irrelevant to yield, right? Unless you're investing in the project. That should make a differentiator on your payout. But if I hold a million XRP in my wallet and you hold 10,000, my proportionate share is going to be bigger mainly because I hold more xrp. But my investment in the project is exactly the same as your investment. So I, I'm not understanding why my yield payout is going to be larger than Yours if I have more xrp but our investment is equal.
- [37:06]
B
That's a great question. It's, it's our view that the most important thing we wanted was a value accrual to xrp. We wanted to create the DAO to support this community and by extension the XRP ledger and then from there the value of the XRP token. So you do see the benefit just, you know, on the back end. In other words, if you own a lot of XRP and you're a member of, and these investments in the ecosystem cause the value of XRP to grow, you're going to benefit. That is an indirect way of seeing getting the yield from the project. Whereas, because one of the things we wanted to avoid was direct investment, we didn't want to create an unregistered security. We didn't want to have it where all of a sudden now Fabio and I are fund managers for people's xrp. We've seen so many failures in the industry where daos and other kind of legal entities take possession of people's digital assets and then it's catastrophic, there's fraud or failure. We didn't want to have any of those problems or risks. What we wanted to do was solve these, this problem of getting the community to grow in value and have an XRP being at the center of it. So that's not to say there's no opportunity for direct investment. So for example, in an LLC structure, members can do injections into capital contributions into the legal entity. This is all like established legal framework. And as part of those capital contributions, you can say, okay, this is the deal. I'm making a capital contribution so that the DAO can go invest in this new casino wherever. And I want this percentage of that casino's profits. And so that can be something negotiated between the Dow and the investor. That's a little more complicated than we're starting off with. But the legal framework allows for it. And so investors a lot of, a lot to contribute. We could find a way to accommodate that for sure. But the yield really comes from, in the large part from the community and from our investments. Now that cap doesn't mean that you're not going to get more than everybody else. This isn't where everyone gets equal. This is where for the large part, everyone gets in proportion to the xrp. But the whales, the people who are, you know, a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand times more XRP than everybody else, they, they won't get that in proportion because that, that would lead to some problems in the long Run. Did that answer your question?
- [39:44]
C
It does to, to a point that I'm really glad, you know, and it's interesting because, you know, Chip and I talk about legality a lot, you know, and making sure that you do things that are, you know, in, within, within the, the borders of, of legal. There's projects out there that definitely skirt the gray area. And we've, we've seen all of them, we've seen some of them go down. And so that part's really, really keyed in because you guys have put so much thought into the legal framework of it and registering as an LLC makes it, you know, a lot of sense opening up, you know, the project for further development in the dao, you know, to the members is also, I think, you know, really important. But you know, I'm still kind of tied back to and I understand, you know, why, you know, you definitely don't want to at this point in the game and maybe in the future you say, hey, we're going to roll out an ETF when there's, you know, legal framework for that. Avoiding being fund managers makes a lot of sense to me. You know, you can definitely, you know, dip your toe into a very, you know, difficult situation.
- [40:53]
B
Yeah, I, I, and that's something that, you know, the community is going to decide. I, I like the idea of the DAO managing funds for allocating to various crypto projects because it's a full time job keeping up with all, all of the developments in crypto and all of the opportunities. I myself as a member would love a kind of representative of myself that I could allocate funds to and they could go and then apply those and what, what the community has determined to be the best place because there is a wisdom of the crowds that comes with markets. And I could see the Dow being a focal point for investment where the Dow wanted to go create an ETF or wanted to go invest in an etf. You know, we haven't talked about this on any other channel, but the, the Zaldao has been in talks with Securitized, for example. Some of your viewers may have seen or heard about Securitized, but they tokenize all kinds of financial instruments like they might tokenize a hotel. We've been in talks with them to have the DAO be a, essentially a, a accredited investor institution with Securitized so we could make direct investments in those kinds of things. So we're working very hard behind the scenes to give our membership as much opportunity to, or earn value with, with the Zao Dao. Resources.
- [42:23]
C
That's awesome.
- [42:24]
A
I jump into some of these questions over here and this is a really good one. I, I like the perspective on this, this question. This says nothing's ever going to come between me and my xrp. And I think that's one of the unique things about, you know, Fabio, talk a little bit about why that's, this is on a lot of people's minds in the community. They're like, great, this sounds good, but I don't want to give up my xrp. Tell me why that's why. This is very unique to this, though.
- [42:48]
D
I think I mentioned that before. So the, the, the Zaldao will never touch, you know, any, any member's wallet. The, that's why we issue the nft. And that's what we be reading. The, the, you know, the, the governance part of it, as Santiago mentioned, the voting part of it and the profit sharing part of it. It's only reading an NFT attached to their wallet. But note in any, I don't know how, what language, maybe we have to translate in different languages, but there is no way in the world that it's out there will actually touch, touch or physically touch or even be able to identify what's in that wallet.
- [43:28]
A
Yes. Yeah. What's in your wallet? That's a catchphrase of one of these set city or somebody. What's in your wallet? They're always like, what's in your wallet? Well, this is something you don't have to worry about. This is I don't know what's in your wallet. Because one of the funny things is that I think everybody's been, it's been like this, the shock of the, what's happened to people around. So I think people are really a little bit maybe nervous or trigger happy or whatever it may be. I'm going to go through some other questions. Ray Run says, is Zao an exchange or a wallet?
- [43:56]
B
Yeah. And you know, on that last question, that just shows how much trauma our community and crypto in general has from bad kind of investments that you lose custody of your digital asset. It's, it's gone or devalued. And that's, that's at the core of what we believe in, not to have that happen. So we never take, we will never ask you for your xrp. And, and I would not recommend anyone give their XRP unless it's a protocol kind of investment. But that's neither here nor there. So we're not a wallet. You can use your Zen wallet and your Bifrost Wallet are the two wallets we're going to start with for connecting to the Zao platform. So you connect your wallet to it and then you, that's where you pay your membership fee. You sign the transaction yourself. We don't do that. And then your NFT is minted on the back end and deposited in the wallet. So we ourselves are not a wallet, but we work with all the major wallets that support the XRPL community. We're not an exchange. We, again, we don't hold your XRP and we won't, we don't facilitate the swap of your XRP for something else. We are working with exchanges, though, so that if you have your XRP on, on the, on, say Uphold or Kraken, that you get credit if you decide to become a member for that XRP and that NFT gets deposited with that exchange, which say, be it Kraken or Uphold, they'll hold your membership NFT for you again for the legal reasons, and then you'll get credited for the amount of XRP that you have. But you know that that's, that's the extent of our interaction with wallets and exchanges.
- [45:45]
A
Great, because I see this other one is kind of in conjunction with that. It says, what will keep my XRP safe once I connect to Zao? Well, you're so, I mean, I, I, I know the answer to that, but I'll let you guys go ahead and field that because. Go ahead and sort of answer that.
- [45:59]
D
Yeah, again, you're connected your, you're connected your wallet for the NFT part of it, but you're not connecting your actual physical xrp. So again, we're not there to touch, to scrutinize, to know who it is. XRP always will stay safe in your wallet, in your custody.
- [46:18]
B
Yeah. And then for the really technical crowd out there, whenever you connect your wallet to anything crypto, it doesn't matter if it's an EVM wallet or an XRPL wallet. You, you should be aware of what you're connecting to. You should know what you're connected to in that if they're asking you to sign a transaction, you know what you're signing. Because there's a lot of wallet scams out there where you think you're sending funds or you think you're buying an NFT or whatnot. And you really need to review in the wallet when it asks you, you know, what are you signing, what's happening here? And that's not straightforward for a lot of people. So I can see why they might be nervous connecting their wallet to the Zodao, but we've had our code reviewed by independent third party to make sure that, you know, there's nothing nefarious in the connection so that you can be safe in connecting it. And that, that's subject to review at any time. Anybody can review that code. But the key, then there is when you buy your membership, that you, you pay that $10 of XRP equivalent. That's a, that's a transaction you have to sign, you have to approve it. We can't reach in there to your wallet and grab the 10 XRP. You have to sign it and send it to the treasury. And when we see that it's arrived, that's when we mint the NFT. So you really have 100 control of your funds at all time. And once that first membership fee is paid, you never have to sign anything again unless you want to, you know, contribute into the dial for some other reason, like we talked about with Jeff earlier. So there really should be no reason for you to or vote. I take that back. You may have to connect your wallet if you want to engage in a vote, because that's how we know the direction of your vote. Yes or no, you have to sign that transaction. So you have the power all the time.
- [48:17]
A
Brings up an interesting concept. Suppose there are 50,000 members of the ZAO and let's say only 20% of those members actually vote. Is it based on the 51% of the vote?
- [48:31]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And that, that's, that's. We wanted it that way because we want people to engage with the community. If you put a proposal for, and only one proposal is considered per calendar day, so if you put your proposal forth, it really is incumbent on you to advocate for it, to engage with the community leaders, the influencers, get your message out there. Everybody can see all the proposals that get put forth. Fabio and I can't keep that. We don't decide which ones you see and which ones you don't. So you'll be able to see all the proposals that everyone puts forth. But to get the word out, you really got to go out and engage with your community. That's, that's what we want. We want people to be disparate, a very tight community that is having a conversation, to have a voice. And so you really got to get out there and advocate for it and grow, get consensus.
- [49:30]
A
Jeff, why don't you grab some of the other questions?
- [49:32]
C
Yeah, so, well, I wanted to really key in with some other comments, you know, coming from from the viewers. But I wanted to kind of key in on, on an important question. When is the Zodao expected to go fully live?
- [49:48]
D
Sorry, I can't hear that.
- [49:53]
C
What is that? Look.
- [49:57]
D
As I mentioned, I think in a few, in a few tweets that I've done of a few dms, the app is going through some sort of stress testing at the moment just to make sure that there is no surprises when it gets launched. We are aiming at the end of the month. It's not a promise, but that's basically what we're aiming at. There is obviously still some other backend stuff that we need to do, but yeah, look, we're at virtually close to the finish line at this stage. We're not years away it this way, I'd say one or two months. The worst case scenario if you find some sort of issues within the app.
- [50:38]
B
Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Oh, I just. All the backend infrastructure is complete the, the code. So we're running on AWS cloud for all of the front end interfaces. So when you come to Zao IO, all that was running on Amazon Web Services globally. So you'll get a good response. It doesn't matter if you're in Australia or the us it will be very responsive. All of the XRP ledger mainnet infrastructure like the NFT minting and the scanning is complete and all of the XRPL EVM sidechain infrastructure is also complete. The solidity smart contracts, the things that are used to mint your governance tokens, to record, record your votes and then we have decentralized file storage, ipfs for all of the proposals. So if you put in a proposal that gets stored into the Zao archives so that somebody can come, you know, a year later and see whether or why it passed, why it failed, they can read through the proposal and get a historical archive. So all that's done. We're just ready, we're just testing this and getting this ready to out as soon as possible.
- [51:49]
C
That's great. And now here's, here's another one and maybe you know it, maybe you don't yet, but let's say I wanted to transfer, I wanted to gift my membership and I wanted to move that to somebody else. Is there a process mentioned? It's an. A willable asset. But what about a gifting asset?
- [52:13]
B
That's a good one, Bobby, do you want to try it? I can.
- [52:16]
D
Happy to, that's fine. I mean gifting from an operating, from the operating agreement at the moment it's not possible, as I said it's unique to the alder. If there is however some sort of disputes, let's say a divorce or death to that extent, then yes, that can be organized. But obviously of chime has to be done through the legal arena, I guess. And at that point it can be, it can be done.
- [52:49]
B
Yeah, that, that's 100. The right answer is that remember this, if you go back to the beginning of the conversation, this is a legal asset. And so it's, I guess I could ask anybody and say, can you gift your wallet? Yeah, you can give somebody the password or give someone the private keys access. Right. So you know, that's really what we're talking about here is can you give the wallet that has the XRP and the NFT membership in it? Certainly, you know, we wouldn't know if you gave it to your, your wife or your kids. But there are legal implications with that. You can do that in a very informal way. But in, in, in, in reality, you know, there's depending on the jurisdiction, there's gifting limits that you can, you know, you can give your kids a certain amount every year, for example, or, or a gift. But if you go over that, there's tax implications. So that's something that I would recommend you would consult with your, your advisor, your tax tax professional because it has personal implications. But from a technical standpoint, it's, it's basically giving up your wallet to somebody else.
- [53:57]
C
Okay, so that, that's good. It's outside of the Zaldo, right?
- [54:01]
B
Yeah, we, we don't control whether you give your wallet to someone else or not. Yeah.
- [54:06]
C
Or the nft.
- [54:08]
B
Well, it's in the nft. You can't send the nft. And that's a great, I'm glad you brought that up. You can't sell the NFT to somebody else. I mean you could, but I, I'm not even sure the NFT can be moved out of a wallet, to be honest. I, I need to look into the technicals of that to be, to be sure. But I'm pretty sure it's bound to the wallet. So you can't trade it on an exchange, for example. Plus it's kind of odd because you can just go buy one for $10. But so yeah, I'm pretty sure you can't just send your nft and if you do the wallet that add the NFT in it, it's not going to credit, get credited anymore. Only the wallet that would receive it would get credited. So.
- [54:51]
C
And there's there, there would be no incentive Then if you have multiple wallets to try to move it around you just. If you wanted to participate with multiple wallets, can you do that? Let's say if I had 10 different wallets with, you know, 100,000 XRP for a total, can you break it up and you know, invest that would buy in that way?
- [55:09]
D
Yeah, definitely. Just, I mean that can be done. I mean as I said, we do it's. It's anonymous, so we don't even know who those wallets belong to. The only problem that individual will have, especially when at the end of the financial year profits need to be distributed, we will only distribute it to one of those wallets provided that the information and I think we didn't touch base on this. Every, every country around the world obviously will need to have some sort of income statement derived from the Zao. So I think in America it's. Point me if I'm wrong, Santiago, it's some sort of W3 or something to that extent. And obviously if, if the Zaldao sees that there's 10 wallets with the same name for those 10 wallets, well, you won't love it. Exactly. And only one will get.
- [56:02]
C
So you still have to go through an AML KYC only for the position and for the profit.
- [56:08]
D
For the profits.
- [56:09]
C
And then you only allow one wallet for a profit. That's a good question.
- [56:14]
B
Yeah, it's to be precise, the we only allow one individual to receive a share of the profits. It could be a legal entity though. Like for example, if you have a company and your company owns the wallet, then it would be the company receiving the share of the profits and losses. Now to the earlier point about a. I could buy multiple NFTs and have multiple wallets. That is a way to kind of get around the system that we set up with the cap. But we think that's a very edge case problem. And $10 is kind of an anti spam thing. If you really want to spread out your wallet that many times, well, the DAO certainly benefits from it. But a whale could create theoretically a bunch of wallets. Now there's new amendments being put forth on the XRP ledger for things like decentralized identity where you can remain anonymous but be able to use zero knowledge proofs to prove that you're an individual. For example, we're looking into how we could incorporate that so people don't go through the scheme of breaking up their wallets just to do a vote. Now we would love that. That means we're wildly successful. If people are Going through those lengths, but we're already thinking about how we really kind of constrain it so people can't cheat the system.
- [57:35]
A
We are coming up on an hour, guys, and I thought it'd be kind of fun to run through a lightning round. How this is going to work is I'm going to throw a question out there. First thing that comes to your mind, you're going to go ahead and answer it. And because on my screen, I see Fabio, Fabio on the right, Santiago on the left. So we'll start with Santiago and then Fabio. So I'll throw these questions out there and you just go ahead. First thing that hits your mind, and let's see how this goes. Okay, so first thing I'll throw out there is favorite movie, Santiago.
- [58:03]
B
Ah, man, that's a tough one. I. I love Godfather Series Part 2 is probably my favorite. One of my favorite. I also, but that's on that genre and something like a guilty pleasure. Probably like Predator with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Love those. Yeah, I go there.
- [58:22]
A
Fabio, how about you? And you can give one or two because it's hard to choose one.
- [58:26]
D
Top Gun.
- [58:28]
C
Top gun.
- [58:28]
A
One or two?
- [58:30]
D
All of them.
- [58:31]
A
Okay.
- [58:32]
D
And those series in every single 007 movies.
- [58:37]
A
Fantastic. And then the other one. Jeff, take the next question on there you see it.
- [58:41]
C
This one's near and dear to Chip's heart.
- [58:43]
A
Well, Jeff's too, but I will throw it out there.
- [58:46]
C
Apple or Android?
- [58:50]
D
Apple.
- [58:52]
B
I'm 100% Android guy.
- [58:54]
A
Down the guy. And we're separated. So I see down the divide. Fabio and I are right here. We're the apple guys. Got the apple guys on this side. Got the Android guys over there. So it's perfect. I'll take the next one. This is a controversial one, I will admit, but this people have to know this answer. It's very important. Pineapple on pizza. Genius or a crime?
- [59:15]
D
Crime.
- [59:16]
C
Yeah.
- [59:17]
B
Once again. Once again, we have a divide in the dow. I. I acknowledge that it's a culinary crime, but I love it. So I'm sorry, Fabio. I apologize to the Italian people. It's an insult. But it's so delicious.
- [59:31]
A
It is so delicious.
- [59:32]
C
I've never had it. And pineapple is delicious.
- [59:35]
D
Not on pizza.
- [59:36]
C
Right? Well, we got that appropriate on pizza, and I've never tried it, but now that we have two, it's kind of split divide. You might have to try it.
- [59:46]
A
Jeff, grab the next one. We'll alternate these.
- [59:49]
C
You can't get over that one. Pete's pineapple on pizza.
- [59:52]
A
I don't know hey man, we're divided here as well.
- [59:54]
C
So now we did the, we did the favorite movie one. So now how about kind of a guilty pleasure TV show. This kind of gets into the heart of it.
- [60:06]
B
That's a good one.
- [60:08]
D
Guilty Pleasure.
- [60:09]
C
Something you might go back and re watch over, you know, multiple times over Friends.
- [60:16]
B
Okay. I, I, I, My wife watches a lot of true crime stuff. She constantly has that on the background. I don't know how she's not terrified constantly. But I, I like, I like the Wire, for example, or the Sopranos, things like that. Yeah, a lot of HBO stuff.
- [60:36]
C
Chip, how about you? What is yours?
- [60:40]
A
Probably Game of Thrones or I would say Walking Dead's probably my all time favorite. Yeah, big fan of the Walking Dead. All everything I've seen, every spin off and all that too.
- [60:50]
B
Oh, wow.
- [60:51]
A
Jeff, how about you?
- [60:52]
C
You, you know what's interesting? I like all those shows, but if I'm just sitting there, I just want to just have fun watching something. There's two that I watch and I'll go back and re watch episodes out of sync. One is Psych.
- [61:05]
B
Oh yeah.
- [61:06]
C
I love going back to the beginning and re watching Psych. It's a lot of fun. And then Lucifer, it's got a lot of depth to it and just, it's a lot of, you know, a lot of fun.
- [61:18]
B
Wow.
- [61:19]
A
It's weird. I've never seen any of those.
- [61:21]
B
Here's another important Neil Gaiman spin off. Yeah, great show.
- [61:26]
A
That's wild. What's your, what's your very first thought when WI fi goes down?
- [61:31]
B
Panic. And then relaxation.
- [61:35]
D
Check the batteries.
- [61:38]
A
My first thought is like, wow, I have a family. They seem pretty nice. I didn't know that.
- [61:43]
B
Well, that's why panic set in. Because with my three girls, complaints will arise very quickly.
- [61:49]
A
Yeah, the WI fi, the iPads don't work anymore. The phones don't work anymore. Right. They have Android, they're on iPads. But Jeff, how about you, what's your, I mean, I.
- [61:58]
C
If I'm in the middle of work, then it's kind of like panic mode. It's like, damn, you know, you're in the middle of something and everything you do is online but at home. Yeah, that's the first thing. I'm the one everybody comes to immediately. It's like the WI fi is down. Like, what am I supposed to do about it?
- [62:13]
A
You're supposed to fix it, Right?
- [62:15]
C
Exactly. Else, just grab. Yeah, I don't know if, if aliens land, who's the first person you're throwing under the bus.
- [62:37]
D
My next. The neighbor.
- [62:40]
A
Oh, I hope they're not watching because we'd be like, well, which one? You know, it's like. So we're not gonna name names.
- [62:45]
D
I got a few, I got a few.
- [62:46]
A
Okay.
- [62:47]
C
A few neighbors right there.
- [62:48]
B
I was gonna say my mother in law, but she's great. She. Lots of baking, so. Exactly.
- [62:57]
A
Okay, so here's another one. So which superpower would you waste first, invisibility or flying?
- [63:05]
D
I'll say invisibility.
- [63:07]
C
Yeah, same.
- [63:08]
B
Yeah. We can already fly somehow sometimes, you know, different ways. So I go with invisibility for sure.
- [63:13]
A
But you can fly like Superman type of thing.
- [63:15]
B
That's true. That's true.
- [63:17]
A
Jeff, which one would it work for you?
- [63:21]
C
You know, I don't know. I think flying.
- [63:23]
A
I think flying too.
- [63:25]
C
Yeah.
- [63:26]
A
Fly around like Superman. It might get a little scary.
- [63:28]
B
You're like, okay, how do I control this? You're. Yeah.
- [63:30]
A
A little too high up and it starts.
- [63:33]
C
I'd much rather have teleportation.
- [63:35]
B
Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah, absolutely.
- [63:38]
A
Yeah. 100%.
- [63:40]
D
Yeah. Put a proprietor.
- [63:43]
A
By the way, Jeff's first proposal. Jeff mentioned too, on. We were doing a show. Jeff, are you still in on that first proposal you're talking about writing?
- [63:50]
C
Yeah, I think it makes sense. It's having an annual buy in of the annual renewal of $10. I think that makes sense.
- [63:58]
A
So Jeff's got his first proposal already continuous.
- [64:01]
B
Yeah.
- [64:02]
C
If you have a million customers or a million members, then you have an influx of, you know, 10 million every year.
- [64:08]
B
Yeah. That's great.
- [64:09]
C
You're not always seeking, so I like that.
- [64:13]
D
Sure. That's.
- [64:14]
B
Some of these exchanges have millions of XRP holders. Just so you guys know that we've talked to. Which is. Which is crazy to think about. That certainly would work.
- [64:22]
C
Okay, here, here's. Here's a good one. Early bird or late sleeper? Do you like getting up early or do you sleep in?
- [64:30]
D
Not Ellie.
- [64:31]
B
Bit late sleeper without it divided right there again. But it works out because we're in separate time zones, so it really works out.
- [64:41]
A
Jeff, I know you're an early riser.
- [64:42]
C
I get up early and I, you know, force myself. Depends. If I end up, you know, hanging out late, then you can't because then you struggle. But used to be 5:30 and I pushed it back to 4:30.
- [64:53]
B
Oh, wow.
- [64:54]
C
I like that time zone. It gives you a lot of time.
- [64:57]
B
Yeah.
- [64:57]
C
You know, that's a thing, you know, when you have to, you have to run out of the house. So it's amazing, you know, how Much Just get you on load, you can work out. I like work. My workouts are always in the morning. So yeah, I like doing that. I like to study. There's things I want to do and then it opens up that time zone. But then the problem is that I've found the 5:30 is perfect. 4:30 might be too early, but then because about 10:30, 11:00 clock, you're like, okay, I'm ready to wrap up the day. It doesn't work so well.
- [65:27]
A
Say this I know or you're done. Okay, here's one. Just want to think. I want a quick answer. Don't try to analyze it too much because it's one of these logic answers. Would you rather fight one horse sized duck or 100 duck sized horses? Santiago?
- [65:43]
B
One horse sized duck.
- [65:47]
A
That's your answer? Yeah.
- [65:48]
B
Yeah.
- [65:49]
A
Bobby, would you rather fight one horse or a hundred or 100 duck sized horses running around?
- [65:58]
D
I say one. I say one.
- [66:00]
A
Okay. Beautiful. Jeff, what are you thinking?
- [66:02]
C
I don't know. I don't know if I'd want to face a.
- [66:05]
A
You could kick those little horses.
- [66:06]
C
A horse sized duck, exactly.
- [66:09]
B
Because that seems monstrous.
- [66:10]
C
That's the thing that's just way too big considering what these ducks do. I have a lot of ducks in the backyard.
- [66:15]
B
Yeah.
- [66:16]
C
When you see them and they're met, they're mean and they're messy. And the funniest, the funniest. I remember my wife was outside walking the dog and she had a piece of toast or something. She's walking and ducks flew from. They said it was a swarm of ducks. It was a feeding frenzy. You might not come back from that though. So if you had 100 horse sized ducks. I don't know.
- [66:44]
A
That sounds prime for an AI animation, doesn't it?
- [66:47]
B
Yeah.
- [66:48]
A
Big old no. What do I have to see to see what happens?
- [66:52]
C
The duck would definitely eat you. That's the problem.
- [66:55]
B
That's that. That's that simulation people run with the gorilla versus 100 men. You know, that's.
- [67:00]
A
Oh yeah, that's right.
- [67:00]
B
Run that a million times.
- [67:03]
A
Yeah. Gorillas forget about that. Destroyed.
- [67:06]
B
I agree.
- [67:07]
D
Definitely.
- [67:08]
C
Right? Yeah.
- [67:10]
A
Drills are. Go ahead, Jeff. Take a couple there.
- [67:13]
C
Let's see. Oh, here's this one is important. I think probably the most important. And it could be throughout the day, it could be in the morning and I should say, you know, coffee or tea? Let's say, let's start with that and then there's a follow up to the type of coffee. So coffee or tea?
- [67:28]
D
Coffee, definitely.
- [67:29]
B
Oh, coffee by far. Yeah.
- [67:32]
C
Okay, coffee now, real coffee, meaning like espresso, or are we talking about American drip coffee? The brown water limited.
- [67:41]
D
I'm not even going to answer that. It's like pineapple and pizza, right? Has to be espresso.
- [67:47]
B
I, I, I'm, I'm Colombian by, by birth. US Citizen, though. But I take a lot of pride in my coffee beans especially. And I'll have cappuccinos in the morning. Not a, not, not after the morning, Fabio. Don't worry. And you know, normal coffee after that.
- [68:06]
A
We know Jeff's answer already. Okay. Because we saw him sipping the. And Jeff, what kind of coffee was that? Would that, would that happen to be, would that happen to be badass yeti coffee?
- [68:16]
C
Yeah, you need to get badass yeti espresso cups so I, I don't have to cover up the, the name of the coffee on this cup, but nice. We'll get somebody, Somebody. Badass yeti's coffee will be on there.
- [68:27]
A
Somebody said in the comments, Jeff's always secretly promoting. I'm like, I have coffee in this bad boy here. But he's always like, that's right.
- [68:34]
C
Yeah, product I'll get, I should, we'll.
- [68:37]
A
Get the bad ideas, the product placement. Yeah, when it's on the cup, it'll be turned perfectly.
- [68:40]
C
That's right. You know, it'll be empty, but I'll be drinking them.
- [68:43]
A
Okay, here's a, here's a couple quick ones, then we'll wrap it up here, guys. So dog or cat?
- [68:50]
D
Dog.
- [68:51]
B
I'm a dog person, but we have a cat.
- [68:54]
A
Okay, there you go.
- [68:55]
B
The wife is the boss.
- [68:57]
A
Jeff.
- [68:59]
C
Dog for sure.
- [69:00]
A
Yeah, I'm a dog for sure too. So you got three dogs and one cat. Well, we have four dog people.
- [69:05]
B
Yeah, right.
- [69:05]
A
That's how it works. You know what they say, Happy.
- [69:07]
B
That's right.
- [69:08]
A
Happy wife, happy life. The one way street, the two way street. And by the way, this was told to me because I had mentioned that to when I was in Australia at the, at the conference there, Fabio. I was talking, having a conversation, I mentioned that, and they're like, no, that's not how it works. I'm like, it isn't. I thought that's how it always works. And, and I was told, no, it's happening. Ha. It's a two way street. Happy house, happy spouse. I was like, oh, that's nice. Yeah, it's two way. You know, it's a double. Yeah, it's a two way street. So is that right?
- [69:42]
B
Yeah, that's great.
- [69:43]
D
Yeah.
- [69:44]
A
All right. All Right. Here's another one, too. So you're going out, you're late with friends, you happen to hit some karaoke. What's your go to song?
- [69:53]
D
Mine will be you, hey Jude from the video.
- [69:57]
A
Hey Jude. All right.
- [69:58]
B
That's a good song. I mean, for karaoke, it's probably Bohemian Rhapsody. That's a great one. It's a lot of fun.
- [70:05]
A
It's awesome.
- [70:05]
C
Wow.
- [70:06]
A
Jeff, what's your go to?
- [70:09]
C
I don't do karaoke.
- [70:11]
A
Come on.
- [70:12]
C
It's gonna be.
- [70:13]
A
Give me a break. Get out of here. You're out.
- [70:16]
C
Ymca. How about that?
- [70:20]
A
Do the motion. The YMCA, too. Yeah, I do. I do China. I like some. I always do Bowie like China Girl or something like that. Something that's a little bit fun, you know. But I'm going to see Paul McCartney for like, the fifth time in Atlanta next at the end of November. Second, I think I'm going to be seeing him. And then next morning, I'm flying off to Swell, so.
- [70:40]
B
Oh, man. Nice.
- [70:41]
A
And I did have the chance to see Freddie Mercury live in Queen in 1982.
- [70:44]
B
Oh, wow.
- [70:45]
A
In Toronto, which was an amazing show. And what was wild about that was he recorded. The Queen had recorded the concert two nights before in Montreal. So it was. Was basically the same set, everything. So if I watch that concert, it's kind of like this. Very similar to what I saw. Same set list and everything. I don't think they varied set list very much back then. I was like, I think they just played the same set for, you know, most of the show. And then, Jeff, let's. Why don't we do one or two more, then we'll go ahead and wrap it up and let these guys.
- [71:13]
B
That will be at Swell, too, by the way. So I'm hoping to meet a bunch of people there.
- [71:17]
A
Yeah. Santiago, first time meeting you. Fabi and I are old buds. We.
- [71:20]
B
We.
- [71:20]
A
Oh, well, you know, we've hung out together, so, I mean, it's. You guys haven't met, right? You guys have not met yet?
- [71:25]
B
Never met at all.
- [71:27]
A
That'll be a joyous. It'll be like one of those movies where you see each other and just kind of run and give each other a hug, something like that. Slow motion.
- [71:36]
D
High five.
- [71:39]
A
Yeah, that'll be something fun. Go ahead, take one or two, Jeff. We'll wrap it up.
- [71:43]
C
All right, let's. Let's. Let's go with this one. This is a fun one, at least. Favorite city that you've traveled to. What's your favorite city? Of all the places You've been.
- [71:54]
D
Well, look, I mean, I know I'm Italian, but Positano, down the coast near Naples.
- [72:01]
B
Oh, nice. Depends on what, what's going on. If it's with the family, with friends. I really, I like Dubai. That was a lot of fun. Singapore. And I love Boston. I live near Boston, so we love going there all the time.
- [72:19]
A
Not nice.
- [72:20]
C
How about you?
- [72:21]
A
I'll go with you first. I'm gonna copy your answer. Go ahead.
- [72:27]
C
I have a couple, but you know, the, the latest. I would say, man, you know, that it's a hard one for me because there's, there's a bunch of them. I go to same, you know, cities and it was kind of shocking. I liked Rome, I liked being in Rome, which was shocking to me. But I, I prefer smaller, you know, cities. I used to like big cities. My favorite go to. It was always my top three was New York City, Chicago and Toronto. But now they're not even in my top 10. I put them somewhere at the. Not even existing anymore. I have no desire.
- [73:05]
B
I see that.
- [73:08]
A
Yeah. I would say there's a lot of favorites I have. I mean I do, I do like, I do like been all over the uk. I do like that quite a bit. I would say Amsterdam. I've been there probably the most. Just love the city, love the design aspect of it, the people. But I'll probably throw another. This would be a follow up question. Number one tourist attraction I've been to probably, I would say of all time would be Machu Picchu. Whereas, and, and just it's, it's one of the most amazing, you know, breathtaking things that I've ever seen. I've traveled to a lot of, seen a lot of cool things, but that was pretty cool. So if I were to set, put it to you out there. What was like your number one tourist attraction or seven wonder? One of the seven wonders of the world. What would you say there?
- [73:46]
D
The. We've been scuba diving on the Goral coast on the Queen in Queensland. One of the best places, the coral coast.
- [73:56]
B
I like the caldera in, in Greece off the island of Santorini. Very nice. It's a natural heated ocean from the volcano that was there.
- [74:07]
A
Nice.
- [74:08]
B
That was really nice.
- [74:10]
A
Yeah. Santorini is gorgeous as well. All right, well, so is the food. But you show up there and then like you wait for them to finish their two or three hour lunch and they never open on time. You're like, that's Europe, man. That's how Greece is like super laid back. I, I love how Laid back, you know, same Spain, right? It's like people like, ah, we'll close down. But it says you're open. We just will open whenever, right? So you kind of wait out and hang out there, drink some, drink some alcoholic beverage. So I want to thank both of you for coming on here today. Really appreciate that. I'm sure people have some follow up questions can also get those to you. But what I would say next is a couple things here would be to follow go to Zodao I.O. right here. Go to Zaodao I.O. basically put your email in here and what you'll do is you'll just go ahead and join the wait list here and then when you'll get more information when it actually launches, which probably ended a month. But again, you know, these things take time, you know that to do it right there, you're not going to announce a time. You want to make sure the stress testing's done and everything's thorough and everything. So I appreciate you guys saying that bit of it also too. You guys go follow Zao Dao on X. I just almost want to call it Twitter. It's still school getting used to that. But there you go. Zow and Jeff, I don't know if you can throw those in there, but they are in the comments below. You go, go follow Fabio, go follow Santiago Zaow and everything is in the comments down there on YouTube if you happen to be following on X. I, you know, appreciate you watching there too. But we can, you know, go, go over there and give it a follow. Jeff, any thoughts before you, before you leave and we'll give the guys a chance to wrap up here.
- [75:46]
C
No, I think I wanted to say thank you guys for, for being on. Looking forward to seeing the progression of the rollout with the Zaldao and seeing how the positive impact it has on the community at large. It's definitely something that's needed within the developer community and connecting to, to project funds. So I'm looking forward to that. And we will be back on here tomorrow night, Sunday, 8:00pm Eastern Standard Time. So for all those of you that are looking for the YETI giveaway, stay tuned for tomorrow.
- [76:20]
A
Yeah, there you go. And so I got, I'll give both you guys Santiago first any closing remarks?
- [76:26]
B
No. Appreciate you guys very much. Jeff and Chip, you guys are amazing. Been a long time watcher, by the way, so this was super exciting for me to come on and thanks a lot for giving us a chance to, to come and shine and, and I'm hoping you'll have us back.
- [76:40]
A
Of course, after launch, we'll definitely have you guys back. Fabio, any closing words? This is carrying a lot right here. You're closing us out here, so make it count.
- [76:49]
D
First of all, thank you for guys for having us on your channel. It's an amazing. Sorry it took us so long to be on it, but thanks for the invitation anyway. It is amazing. You guys doing fantastic job, especially before the sellout, the way you promoted on your channel. So, yep, hats off and yep, thank you and see you again.
- [77:11]
A
Great. And so stay on after we go. We're gonna. We're gonna wrap up again once we go off the air, but Jeff, go ahead and you want to take us out, Jeff. Or I can.
- [77:20]
C
Trying to locate it.
- [77:22]
A
Gotta find. Gotta find the buttons. We have so many of these massive buttons everywhere now.
- [77:25]
C
There's drop downs and they seem.
- [77:27]
A
They always change it on us as well.
- [77:29]
C
That's what I was looking for. Everything. All right, here we go. All right, we're out. Stay here with us.
- [77:35]
A
See you guys on the next one. Chip, Jeff, wait, hang on a second. I do this proper. Jeff, Chip, Santiago and Fabio.
- [77:49]
C
Are you down with otc?
- [77:52]
B
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