XRP Builder Burnout — Has Crypto Already Lost to Stablecoins?

Summary

Podcast Summary: On The Chain – XRP Builder Burnout — Has Crypto Already Lost to Stablecoins?

Date: November 10, 2025
Hosts: Chip & Jeff
Main Theme:
Examining "builder burnout" in the XRP and wider crypto community, exploring the explosive rise of stablecoins, and discussing whether these changes signal an existential threat to crypto’s original promise. Insights are grounded in Dirk from XPecter’s viral thread and fuel a broader conversation about developer exhaustion, shifts in user priorities, the role of community, and what’s next for blockchain innovators.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the concerns of developer fatigue—what's causing it, why it matters for XRP and the broader crypto ecosystem, and how stablecoins are reshaping the blockchain landscape. Drawing from viral community threads and personal event experiences, Chip and Jeff blend candid community perspective with industry analysis, touching on how to reignite spark in builder communities and speculating on crypto’s next wave.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Setting the Stage: Builder Burnout & Stablecoin Surge

• Chip addresses the central dilemma:
  “Has crypto already lost? I mean, if the world moves on to stablecoins and tokenized dollars, what happens to XRP DeFi and every investor still holding on?” (00:29)
• Jeff notes developer burnout:
  “Developers seem to be really burned out. XRP space, maybe even across the board with other crypto projects, are going silent. Stable coins, though, are exploding across the board in adoption.” (00:14)
• The hosts set the tone for a frank, no-hype conversation about stagnation in XRP and other crypto spaces.

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2. Swell 2025 Event: Community, Networking, and Ripple Panel Highlights

• Chip’s recap of Swell:
  • Describes waiting for entry, mingling with community legends (like James Rule, Molly, and others), and the vibrant social energy at the Ripple community party. (02:19–05:13)
  • Shares favorite moments: Michael Arrington's lively unscripted interview with David Schwartz and Ashish Birla—“I now know why they didn’t live stream this. Because there were a couple f-bombs dropped and it was off the cuff and there was a lot of fun and laughter.” (04:03)
• Notable quote – on Brad Garlinghouse as a boss:
  • Michael Arrington asks: "Is Brad Garlinghouse a good boss?”
  • David Schwartz: "I don't work for him anymore, so...But I will say just flat out, he's one of the most favorite people I've ever worked for. And I will say, I've learned a lot over the years from Brad. I wouldn't be the position that I'm in now..." (11:32)
• Community inclusiveness: Swell 2025 will be open to everyone in the XRP community, not just select insiders.
  “They're going to open it up...Because I can imagine that if people show up in mass, it's going to be thousands of people, not just 800 that were there.” (19:02)

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3. Viral Thread Breakdown: Why Builders Are Leaving

• The hosts dissect Dirk (XPecter’s) viral thread, taking turns to read and analyze key points:

Summary of Dirk's Thread

• General malaise:
  “If you've been feeling tired or disconnected from crypto lately, you're definitely not alone...I've watched countless founders quietly shut down, pivot, or sell their projects. Not because they didn't care, because they did everything right and still hit a wall.” (17:50)
• Echoes of the dot-com bubble:
  “In the early Internet, attention mattered more than the revenue. Then the crash came, and with it, exhaustion...Sound familiar?” (24:01)
• Speculation vs Substance:
  “Crypto is tracing the same curve from the ICO hype...to the NFT mania...to the meme coin chaos...Speculation has outrun substance.” (24:24)
• Why burnout?
  1. Emotional fatigue: constant noise, funding stress, regulatory fog, community skepticism.
  2. Narrative chaos: constantly shifting attention from one trend to the next.
  3. Market apathy: sometimes, even the best projects find no audience. “Timing kills more projects than execution.” (26:19)
• Optimism for the patient:
  “Now, founders are exhausted, investors cautious...but I can feel the pendulum starting to swing back. This is exactly the moment when the next generation of meaningful projects gets born.” (25:27)

How to Survive the Crypto Winter

• Practical advice for builders:
  • “Choose investors that are teammates for their belief, not their money.” (32:16)
  • “Don't build in isolation...Crypto rewards openness, not secrecy.” (31:48)
  • “Redefine what progress means. In a down market, everything declines...But progress isn’t always visible.” (33:38)
• Quote:
  “When the noise fades, only conviction remains. Momentum, not hype, becomes the real advantage.” (25:27)
• Chip draws parallels to his own VC experience:
  “When I was looking for VC money went through 49 people...every single time they wanted to take the idea and say, ‘oh, it’s this.’ ...because a lot of times, if you ever see private equity money...what’s the first thing that happens? They kill the product.” (32:16)
• The "boring phase" is the foundation:
  “This is the boring phase that builds billion dollar foundations.” (34:33)

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4. Community & Burnout—Personal Reflections, Humor, and Real Talk

• Old school crypto leaders (David Schwartz, Ashish Birla) remain accessible and personable at events.
• The importance of community support and candid feedback.
  • Chip: “It’s a lot, man...people coming up to you all the time, especially David at the XRP community event...” (13:14)
• Jeff bemoans lack of adoption:
  “You could build the project...but there's still something missing...We're not seeing a lot of VC running after builders and developers in the space.” (17:50–18:55)
• Amusing community asides:
  • “I've tested positive for XRP.” (09:31)
  • “There's nobody has any money. Because, you know, with socialism eventually you run out of other people's money...” (09:25)
• The role of "fomo" and hype vs. real value—builders are too often beaten up if they don’t deliver instant riches (30:07–30:52)
• “It's all about the fomo...The work that used to feel effortless suddenly feels heavy. That's when founders start whispering to themselves, maybe I should pause...But before that moment hits, there are ways to keep your energy and momentum alive.” (30:53)

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5. Side Segments: New York Real Estate, Voting, and Economic Gripe

• Worries about New York City’s direction after political changes; anecdotes from a cab driver planning to flee to Florida, tales of mass police retirement, and business exodus (05:53, 06:50).
• Skewering inept election protocols—no voter ID checks in NYC (“We're not supposed to ask for your id. How you gonna look it up? A signature on file...This is ridiculous.” 57:51).
• Satirical and AI-aided sketches on socialism, virtue signaling, and the state of Western culture, bringing comic relief amidst serious speculation (various, ~39:00 onward).

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6. Population, Migration & Societal Change

• Long, thought-provoking diversion on dubious Chinese population stats (guest interview, 66:20–71:49).
  “So China’s 1.4 billion population is a complete lie. It’s much lower...There’s possibly 1 billion people missing...It’s not a demographic question, it’s a mathematical question.” (66:28; 66:59)
• Discussion on culture shock, mass immigration, and challenges of social assimilation (72:06–75:44).
• Ongoing concern over the direction of the US and Western societies regarding border, culture, and language.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Has crypto already lost?” (Chip, 00:29)
• David Schwartz on Brad Garlinghouse:
  "He's one of the most favorite people I've ever worked for. I wouldn't be in the position that I'm in now…" (11:32)
• On why projects fail:
  "Timing kills more projects than execution. Just like in sales, Jeff. Time kills deals. Time kills everything." (26:19)
• On next-gen crypto:
  "Momentum, not hype, becomes the real advantage." (25:27)
• On New York City real estate/socialism:
  "With socialism, eventually you run out of other people's money." (09:25)
• Satirical AI on why people are 'fighting':
  "So my great grandchildren can be a minority in their own country." (64:31)
• Chip on community change:
  "I like people staying in their own countries because they tend to make the other countries." (75:05)

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Notable Timestamps

• Builder burnout kickoff: 00:01–00:29
• Swell event stories: 02:19–05:13
• Key Ripple panel quote (Schwartz): 11:32
• Dirk's thread breakdown: 17:50–35:07
• Advice for founders/builders: 31:48–34:33
• Comic segments on elections/culture: 39:00–46:00
• Population stats guest segment: 66:20–71:49

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Tone & Style

• Frank, community-centric, often tongue-in-cheek, interwoven with industry savvy.
• Willingness to veer off into lively (sometimes irreverent) social commentary.
• Encouraging and honest about the challenges ahead.
• Brief moments of sharp satire and humor help soften heavier topics.

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Conclusion

This episode takes an unfiltered look at the current existential funk in crypto builder circles, digs into the causes, and finds hope in the possibility that real innovation happens during the “boring phase.” At the same time, the hosts react to broader political and social shifts impacting the entire landscape—always through a community-driven, Main Street lens. Amidst it all, they urge listeners: if you’re building, don’t quit now. This is where the next wave begins.

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For further discussion or to join the OTC community, follow On the Chain on Twitter or connect on YouTube.

Transcript

[Jeff]

We actually live. We're live. Look at that. Without XRP builders, there's no progress. And right now, I'll tell you what, that progress has stalled out. Developers seem to be really burned out. XRP space, maybe even across the board with other crypto projects are going silent. Stable coins, though, are exploding across the board in adoption. There's one big question that we really have to ask ourselves right now.

[Chip]

Has crypto already lost? I mean, if the world moves on to stable coins and tokenized dollars, what happens to XRP defi and every investor still holding on? We're breaking down DS's viral threat on builder burnout. What's fueling the fatigue, and how the rise of stablecoins could rewrite the entire crypto roadmap. You're watching on the chain. Let's. This time, we are live. We had a little glitch where it said, we are live, and then we're talking. I said, I don't think we're live. We are live.

[Jeff]

The funny thing is we're not saying you're live now. Wait a minute. Maybe they heard something.

[Chip]

It's because it went. For a second, it went live. Then I looked, I'm like, we're not live, Jeff. This is really weird.

[Jeff]

It went live and then wasn't live?

[Chip]

Yeah, to me, it was a little quirky sort of a thing.

[Jeff]

Everybody see. It was. It was live.

[Chip]

It was because it was weird. I mean, like. Like, I saw it flash on the screen and then nothing. And I'm like, we're not live, Jeff. I don't know. It still says that was glitchy as hell, man. I don't know what. What happened right there, but welcome, everybody. Drop where you're coming in from.

[Jeff]

We are we live?

[Chip]

I don't know.

[Jeff]

You're asking the question, are we live?

[Chip]

We played twice. What was weird? Was it played and we thought like, well, did it go live? Because we. It showed it wasn't live, so we had to run through it again. I need to see that twice. I think you already did. Dang chip. Jeff, this is scary as f I'm a huge XRP investor. That intro. Omg. Don't worry about it. We're gonna. We're gonna break it down. You're all screwed. That's how it is.

[Jeff]

And that's all we have for tonight.

[Chip]

And thank you and good night. Thank you and watching.

[Jeff]

But swallow Repeat everything we do twice.

[Chip]

I have to say, the swell was swell. You know, like, so the. The morning of it opened, the doors opened at 7:30 and I was there at like 7:20, which is very unusual for me because I'm usually like around time or just like running a two minutes late. We kind of tend to do that, Jeff. But. And I saw James Rule was there and I was talking. He goes, what happened? Oh, they won't let us in there. I think it was like 7:10. I was like 20 minutes early. And then I saw Molly there as well. I saw some other people there. Max was there. A bunch of people were just hanging out. They wouldn't let us go in until exactly 30. And when I went in, I was like, oh, thank you. I go. She goes, have a swell day. I'm like, did you just say that? She said, I did. Swell. And then there was a. Then Tuesday night, the Ripple sort of party that was held in this, this sort of Spanish place. And they were walking around with margaritas and palomas and all kinds of great drinks and hors d' oeuvres and there's a whole bunch of food. You could get some pie. It was just fantastic. That was exactly going through my mind. I said it. I go, margaritas. And no one knew what I was talking about, Jeff. I thought I was crazy. Risky. And they called it the celebration. But next year, as I've mentioned yesterday, Swell is open to everybody in the XRP community. No more. You'd have to like do this whole dance where. And I was just really thrilled to have been a part of was something really great. As a matter of fact, before we get into that viral clip, we're gonna go ahead and bounce. I'm gonna start off with two clips that I actually, here's what's funny is that this session that I'm about to play, I played two excerpts from was the best. I wish this would have been three hours long. I would have stayed there the whole time. I had the most fun. It was, it was Michael Arrington interviewing David Schwartz and Ashish Burla, and he's funny as hell. And I now know why they didn't live stream this. Because there were a couple f bombs dropped and it was off the cuff and there was a lot of fun and there was a lot of laughter going on and I kept looking for it. I, I would love to re watch the whole thing, but unless somebody recorded the entire panel, I don't know that it exists. But it was, it wasn't live streamed. Oh, that. Don't even get me started on that, man. That was the. The 2 and 7 team looked like the 7 and 2 team and vice versa. The good news is is that was the Dolphins Super Bowl. So they're out of the playoffs already. Imagine that you win a big game and you're out of the playoffs. So have fun guys. Enjoy. Enjoy your, enjoy your one loss, your one win. Now you won three games all year. Good luck. You won't even make the damn playoffs. But there you go. Damien A. Says hello. Everybody Johnny picks is here. Our old USD compliments. There you go. There you have it.

[Jeff]

What would, what would Silent Bob say about, about swell. That's, that's a good one.

[Chip]

That's a good. Yeah, I think he's, I think he said everything. Come on man, berserker. He just said it. Nothing. Nothing. Jace Jay has a lot to say. Come on man, berserker. What's your glitches? Watch the glitches. Who's, who's, who's knows? Who's knows. But it was really good. So that was a really good pan. Go ahead and see if I can load one of these videos up here. They were fantastic. Let me see if this is the right one. Okay, here we go.

[Jeff]

Sergeant wants to know if New York got any worse within the the last few days. Can it get anywhere?

[Chip]

Well, I, I, I, I'll talk about it a little bit later. But I did take an unofficial poll when I was there and like 11, 12, maybe 13 people I talked to, only one person said that they were excited and happy and the rest of them were not excited or happy. They were very mad and angry. And one guy who is a cab driver said he's going to take early retirement. He lives up in Rhode island, he said, moving to Florida and he, he said that he has a buddy down there. He keeps telling him to move down there and I'm like, well, there's gonna be a mass exit. It's like, oh, I have a condo for sale in Boca, so if you wanna, anyone wants to come down and snatch it up, I mean, let's go. And a lot of people and he just said like I can't, I can't do New York anymore. I just can't. And then 60 or 70 police took early retirement the next day and the police chief retired. So it's gonna be some exciting content for us.

[Jeff]

Yeah, but this is. The bones are ringing off the hook over here.

[Chip]

Yeah, the agents are going crazy in South Florida. There's gonna be another mass exodus. Big money is going to be leaving, businesses are going to be leaving and socialism is gonna, the people who are dumb and uneducated, the youngsters are gonna find out real soon that it doesn't work. But don't worry, they're gonna find out. They have to feel the pain themselves. This is the panel. This was a question here. They're. They're just. I only grabbed a little bit of it because problem is you're holding the phone up. You're blocking other things and sometimes there are the two camera shoot going on. I don't want to block those. You don't want to be that guy when they're streaming it live with the. With holding it up. So I was just trying to mind my own business. Not. Not be too crazy there. But here we go. The CEO job after Independent.

[David Schwartz]

He wanted someone more handsome than you. That's all. Well, Ever north is a XRP digital asset treasury. And what Everdor does is you can get exposure to XRP and eventually what all the XRP ecosystem has to offer be a via the publicly traded stock on the nasdaq. The ticker symbol is XRPN and.

[Chip]

Yes.

[David Schwartz]

What do you think about that?

[Chip]

Okay, so there's a lot of echo in this. So when I removed that, you saw some of the audience, some of the stuff got clipped, but it was on. It was unlistenable before because it was such a heavy echo in the room and it was far away. So when I boosted it and did some of that, some of that stuff sort of fell by the wayside. So Jeff, do you tell me what the. What the. What we're gonna be doing tonight for the raffle? Do we. What's the.

[Jeff]

Well, not 100 sure if it's gonna be ready. If it's gonna be ready, it'll be awesome. And if it is ready, we're gonna be giving away a song nft of the. Of the song called Cuteness Kills. So I'm waiting for the mint to finish. It's been taking a while. So as long as it's going to be of the white tribe. So as long as that's ready before the end of the show, we're giving that away.

[Chip]

Okay.

[Jeff]

That was the. That was the game plan. It's pretty kick ass.

[Chip]

Phoenix Starborn. Our old pal Phoenix Starborn. He is risen from the. Like a Phoenix from the ashes. What's up, Phoenix? He's a long time. This is like one of our early, early followers. He pops out every once in a while. There's Art. Art who never misses a show. And Steve also, instead of moving to.

[Jeff]

New York to sell outdoor camping equipment, I'll make a killing on some.

[Chip]

There's nobody has any money. Because, you know, with socialism, eventually you run out of other people's money, so no one's gonna have any money to buy it.

[Jeff]

Crypto informants. I've tested positive for xrp.

[Chip]

That's funny. Wait, who said that? Crypto informants. Yeah, that is funny. Yeah. Crypto informs. I gotta. I have to tell you, she is the man. I had a great conversation with him and invited him on the podcast. He said, yes, I'll come on there. He tried to introduce me somebody that would set it up for him, but we kept missing. And then something really cool. When I walked into the XRP event, there was a table set up in the back, and Bashish was only there at the beginning, but it was ever north. By the way, I do have an Evernote short for you shirt for you, Jeff. For you.

[Jeff]

All right.

[Chip]

And I got another shirt for you that I. That I. That I picked up. I just gotta send it off to you, which I'll do this week. But as soon as I walk in the room, I hear chap. I'm like, who the hell is that? I look over, it's a. She's waving at me. I was like, damn. I was like, all right, let's go. This is good. But it kind of scared me a little bit because I thought it was an empty room, you know, But I walked in and it was. It was pretty cool. But he was. He's a great dude, man. He's such a. He's such a down to earth guy. I mean, taking the CEO position there and talked a little bit about Evernorth and what's he. What he's doing. So we'll get him on the podcast, we'll talk. We'll, you know, we'll. We'll go through it and talk about a lot of stuff. And then I also. I'll save it for the podcast. But I did ask him about the shirt, Jeff. I did ask shirt. Oh, yeah, we'll save that for when he comes on the podcast. We'll talk, we'll do it live.

[Jeff]

That'll be great because he bought a whole bunch.

[Chip]

Yeah, we'll do it live. Well, there's a story behind that. Yeah. But this is the one. You don't hear Arrington in the beginning, but Michael Arrington says is like, this is how crazy this interview was. He was just off the cuff, laughing, joking. It was so much fun. I thought, like, is this swell? Where the hell are we? Michael Arrington goes, is Brad Garlinghouse a good boss? It kind of. It's A little soft in the beginning, but then you can hear this. Let's hear. We go. Is he an honorable boss?

[Jeff]

Is he a just boss?

[David Schwartz]

I don't work for him anymore, so. But I will say just fast 100, he's one of the most favorite people I've ever worked for. And I will say I've learned a lot over the years from Brad. I wouldn't be the position that I'm in now.

[Chip]

Come on.

[David Schwartz]

It's going to be replayed, by the way. It's like tweeted in these things. Honestly, I wouldn't be in the position I was.

[Chip]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Schwartz]

He's the greatest difference.

[Chip]

J void.

[David Schwartz]

I'll say he has the second bravest.

[Jeff]

Pulse I have Edible word before.

[Chip]

Anybody know who my wigsday is?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Doctor who.

[David Schwartz]

I say.

[Chip]

I get it, talks are true, but I would say it even if it wasn't.

[David Schwartz]

So. Yeah, the slave France boss. He's joining the or. That's what Brad said to me. Said, I guess you're my boss now.

[Chip]

I want the. I guess sornum and I don't know, let's see if we can work something out.

[Jeff]

Oh, my God.

[Chip]

I would have liked to have grabbed more than that because it was good. But unfortunately when. When it clips some of the audience clips some of the audio too. But it just was unlistenable before. I didn't realize how much echo and how soft it was. And the room.

[Jeff]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Chip]

But it was. It was great being in the room and you know, like sometimes in the second row and you're like right there. And this one, I happen to be off a little bit to the corner depending what time you actually got in the room. But they would have like snacks and. And different things going on, you know, for a while. So it was pretty good. Let's see. What is this? Do you think that mayor will put the mc but Donald's right up, put his rates up. Where's Monica? I did. Well, Monica opened it up. She was fantastic, by the way. I did have a chance to meet her. I did have a chance. I'm not going to mention what I talked about here, but I did ask her a few questions. I went right into interview mode. I just was going to go up and say, hey, my name's Chip. I do a podcast on the chain. Hey, how you doing? Whatever. Just a meet and greet, Whatever. Someone snapped a pick. He'll probably bring the pick, whatever. And then I just, I don't know. All of a sudden some questions hit me. I started going with the questions, boom. What about this? What about this? And I think she wanted to get away from me so that she, like, bail after that. But, no, she's very. She's got a. You know, I'll tell you what. Like, I. Like, you could. I felt her walk into the room before she was even in the room. Like, I felt like the room energy changed, and I went like this and kind of like, went, whoa. And I looked over, and she had just walked in the room, and she had this sort of, like, ambiance about her. And she's tall, Jeff, man. I was like, she's. She's pretty tall. I felt like she was. I don't know. She must be, like, close to six foot. Well, I don't know. She felt like. It was like I was, you know, like she was pretty tall. But she's very nice. And you know what I really appreciated about every All. You know, David, Stu was walking around, like, Steve walking around just like one of the locals, man. He was just, like, with everybody chilling out and stuff, and I chatted with him very briefly, but. But it was just funny walking around. Like, you see all these people just walking around. And Brad wasn't. I don't think Brad was at the cocktail hour like the night before, but I saw him plenty kind of popping around. David Schwartz was everywhere. David really had a great time. I thought he was. They were all just very personable to anybody who wanted to come up and have a chat. And they all treated everybody with respect, like they were just like, you know, because that's got to be. It's a lot, man. You know, people coming up to you all the time, especially David at the xrp, the. The community event, which was the. The last night, which was Wednesday night. And that was maybe, like, a couple. Maybe. I was shocked. It kind of reminded me. I didn't think it was going to be that big of a deal. But I got to hang out with Rob Licker, meet Rob in person finally. Yeah, Rob took off a little bit earlier, and I met just a ton of people that. That came up to me and, like, hey. And then I got to meet some other cool people that I was fanboying about. I got to meet, like, Lady K. And I got to meet, like, Stone. They do the spaces on a pretty regular basis. I'm at Zach Rector. Zach Rector. He's a cool guy, too. I don't look up to many. Too many people. Jeff, but he's like, six. Six.

[Jeff]

That's amazing.

[Chip]

And I'm, like, looking up to him. I'm almost 6 3, and he's like, 6 6, and he's like, you know, walking around. He was sporting some nice suits. Nice. Very nice guy. I'm trying to think of who else. Dude. There was so much tall energy at that place. I was like, damn, there's one guy was like, six, nine walking around. I was like, what the hell, dude? A lot of tall people. And I saw. And I was like, I should have cut my long hair. I saw lots of dudes in business suits with long hair. It was. That was even crazier for me to witness, you know, and then lots of man buns there. You know, it was. I just would have expected it to be. It was, you know, all kinds of stuff. Those Europeans love to wear those sweaters, you know, like, the suit jackets aren't like. They're too good for suit jackets. Yeah. There's a Korean delegation. Those guys were dressed beautifully. I met this one dude from a. From a bank who's looking to buy a. An exchange. And I looked. I go, look, let me see your list. I looked at his list. I'm like, so money's not a really. It's an issue for you guys? So they're a giant investment bank, and they're looking to buy a US Exchange to get in, to start becoming a player. But he showed me his list, and I'm like, there's a couple missing on there. And I said, there's one that you probably should look into. It is based in New York. Let me see if I can hook you up with the CEO. We had him on the show. He's like, oh, I don't know that one. And somebody else just stand. They're like, I don't know that one either. So a lot of it was just making some connections, telling this some people what to do. And again, thoroughly enjoyed the hell out of the experience. And I look forward to seeing a lot of you there next year. So we'll see. So that's where Monica was. She was. And then I thought she did great, too. She entered. She had a good interview with the person that runs digital for nasdaq. That was a really solid interview. I was the one that kind of kicked it off. Ashish Burla was the mc. He did a fantastic thing. So he comes out the day after the election, and he goes, well, so this happened yesterday. I had nothing to do with it. There was a new. There's a new mayor elected. Again. I had nothing to do with it. You know, so that was a lot of fun. Lots of Fun had by all. Okay, let's get to this thread, Jeff, let's talk through this. I know the guy's Dirk. This is dirt from Expector. He put this up. So anyways, why don't we switch off on these. I'll take the first one, you take the next one. I'll read through it. But yeah, he said if you've been feeling tired or disconnected from crypto lately, you're definitely not alone. Over the past year, I've watched countless founders quietly shut down, pivot or sell their projects. Not because they didn't care, because they did everything right and they still hit a wall.

[Jeff]

Go back. So, and there's a lot of deep meaning into that. You know, I mean think about all, you know, the, the amount of time and effort that goes into the development and there is, you know, you do run into a wall. A big part of it is that there's no adoption on the other side. You know, you could build the project, you know, but there's still something missing. You know, we're still, you know, pretty early, you know, and then we look at what they're building and are we fully adopting and the other part of it is where, where did, where's the funding coming from? You know, we know like on the Ethereum side. Yep, there's a lot of money that was poured into it. Solana is getting a lot of traction right now. Some of the others got a lot of publicity and traction and up until this point everything that the XRPL has got very little publicity. And you know, we're not seeing a lot of VC running after builders and developers in the space. Maybe that's getting ready to change. So, but let's, let's go through this a little further.

[Chip]

What it has a good possibility to change. That's going to be one of the first sort of initiatives rolling out with the Zao Dao. It's going to be called the Zao Hub. And that's going to be where you're going to have VCs and developers and business people and all kinds of like, like minded people be able to go like a matching service where you can go in there and connect with people. I think it's really welcome in the community because you know, Jeff, you and I try to find a developer and it was like pulling teeth. You know, we went everywhere trying to find right developer. So these are devs that, that can go in there. But even, even money people, just business people, anybody looking to try to connect with somebody is going to be the Z Hub. So I think that'll be pretty powerful. I wanted to get the momentous question here. Did they announce where the next swell will be? They did. It's going to be in New York City. One of the things that Brad Garlinghouse explained was when they first did the first swell, it was kind of came about in a weird way that in 2017 what happened is there was a Sibos happening and then I guess Swift kind of prevented Ripple from attending. So they said, well screw you, it's, it was in Toronto. So they said, well they rented a warehouse and they sort of gotta attracted a lot of people to come to that instead. So it kind of backfired on them. And so that was the first swell and every time they had a swell they moved it to different places. One of the things that Brad said at the close of the Swell 2025 is that a couple things are changing next year is that they're gonna, they're gonna host it again in New York. And so that's at least what I remember hearing. And they're going to open it up because Apex was generally for more like developers and then maybe some, some business where a lot of what swell was, were business partners, a lot of that. So what they're doing is change swell that, make it open to the community. They're not going to have anybody where if the XRP community wants to show up, they can show up. So there's not going to be sort of restrictions anymore. And I imagine they'll probably have to move it to like the Javits center or something bigger, Madison Square Garden. They're going to have to have it somewhere because I can imagine that if people show up in Mass it's going to be thousands of people, not just 800 that were there when, when I was there. So that's what I can tell you. But Mandami will confiscate everyone's XRP as well. That's possible.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Chip]

You can prior from my dead cold fingers. So Jeff, take that second one there.

[Jeff]

Number two. Some were building far outside the casino trying to create something genuinely meaningful. And we saw, definitely saw a lot of that. You know, this really reminds me, and we talk about this so many times of everything that the.com era went through, you know, but here we have people that are passionate, right, and they're looking on, on chain and trying to figure out, you know, what can we build that is going to solve a problem. And many people put their heart, sweat and tears into something, but they're not really solving a problem. It's not a recognizable problem that people are looking for a solution. You know, they might see it as a problem. They build something so far out the, like you said outside of the casino, you know, they want that. They're, they're doing everything, months, years, grinding and there were no users on the other side. Part of that's mainly because there was no, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't a sought after, you know, pro. Again, you know, I don't, I don't need a, a solution. And, and I've talked about this quite a bit. I'm not saying this is the case, but let's say, you know, someone's building a, a credit card right now that strictly only uses your digital asset and spends your digital asset every time. Do you really need that or is there going to be massive user adoption if that's all it did? You know, I mean, it would be cool because the, the cool factor is that it could do an instant conversion into USD no matter where you are. It could just, you could use it or it somehow, you know, is leveraging your asset and providing some sort of credit. But I think overall, I think that, you know, when we see these types of rollouts, very, I don't have stats on it, but I would think would be less user, less users engaging in something like that. But there's, there's so many other projects that have been built that might not even have that kind of recognition. The market didn't really care. The other part of it, you know, I think it's interesting looking at DS's commentary, there's again, it comes back to the money that was available to even, you know, keep funneling into a project like this to help them continuously build A lot of these guys bootstrap the projects all by themselves, right? And so now eventually you keep banging your head against the wall trying to say, hey, I got this project and there's no users and no support coming from the, the, the blockchain associations, let's call it. And eventually these builders get, you know, total burnout. And you know, according to ds, it's a harsh, it's harsh, but it's a pattern and we've seen it before. And this, I, it's so meaningful. This thread that he put together, Chip. I mean, there's just so much thought that he put into, you know, every, every step of this.

[Chip]

Well, he's lived it too. I mean, he's lived it, he's seen it, he's interfaced with it. You know, he's, it's not like it's not something he doesn't know about. He knows that at first, you know, firsthand. He said, in the early Internet, attention mattered more than the revenue. Then the crash came, and with it, exhaustion. Hundreds of startups died. Not because the Internet was a bad idea, but because expectations were completely out of sync of reality. Sound familiar?

[Jeff]

Exactly. So four, here, crypto is tracing the same curve from the ICO hype of two, 2017, man, that was crazy too. You know, all the ICOs that were dropping in 2017 to the NFT mania of 2021 to the meme coin chaos of 24. Speculation has outrun substance, and it. It's all about the fomo. And he does hit it, you know, pretty. Pretty well based on the. The speculation.

[Chip]

All.

[Jeff]

All of this. The price movements, you know, well, much of the price movements are based on speculators and just speculation. Now, founders are exhausted, investors are cautious, users are calling out the. But I can feel the pendulum starting to swing back. And this is where he definitely, you know, starts showing that there's some optimism out there. And I think we all see it and feel it, that there's definitely some optimism. And. And the. The whole industry is starting to move in an interesting direction right now, which is great.

[Chip]

And this is exactly the moment when the next generation of meaningful projects gets born. When the noise fades, only conviction remains. Momentum, not hype, becomes the real advantage.

[Jeff]

Right, and then number six here, why founders lose momentum. Building anything in crypto is a momentum game. You stack small wins, build confidence, and try to keep moving forward. And I would say that's probably, you know, all projects, not just crypto specific, but crypto momentum is fragile. It's built on volatility, prices, narratives, liquidity, community mood. Lose one and the. We need to show more. There's a little.

[Chip]

Can you click the show more? Yep.

[Jeff]

Oh, that's it. That's something.

[Chip]

And the whole rhythm collapses.

[Jeff]

And that. That's right. Community mood is a big one. Can be very.

[Chip]

For sure, man. And then, of course, it just trounced my. My thing here. Here we go. So number three, big reasons why there's burnout. Number one, emotional fatigue, the constant noise, the funding pressure, regulatory fog. Skepticism is enough to wear anybody down. Number two is the narrative chaos. Every few months, attention jumps NFTs and meme coins, then AI, then real world assets and the next change and blah, blah, blah, and either pivot endlessly or you can risk irrelevance. And number three is the market just doesn't care. You can Build something great still get ignored. Timing kills most more projects than execution. Just like in sales. Jeff. Time kills deals. Time kills everything.

[Jeff]

Time kills everything. Sir John actually brings up a good point on this. Many crypto projects are pure marketing. Marketing. If they can continue the marketing hype. And they. And. And there was a timing. Some of them just hit the timing, you know, perfectly and they never gave up. But if you think about like Shiba Inu, right, the Shiba Inu coin that came out, if that was their end all, be all. But then they're like, oh, the Shiba verse. And we're gonna keep building and there's gonna be real world development. And they just kept figuring it out and they just kept adapting and. And it got in bobbing and weaving up. And they also had a larger sum of money that. That kind of went behind it. But I, I think about like, you know, XRP Cafe and the low engagement at. In the beginning. But those guys, you know, we've talked to them as we rolled our project out that little by little, I mean, they're still around. They don't have anywhere near the engagement of OpenC. Open sees millions and millions of dollars in transactions are flowing through there on a regular basis. And the XRP Cafe does not have that kind of engagement has.

[Chip]

Well, they're number seven or eight though of all of. All of those. Yeah, they picked up significantly. Well, that's also dropped off. But if you don't eat, you don't care. You don't care about dropping 4 or 5k on it. On a right on an NFT. Sir John's saying, how much does it cost to build a project for working beta? Well, with Vibe coding, I've vibe coated a couple things. I got them up and running pretty fast. It's pretty scary. It's not 100 there. Sometimes you have to deal with authentication. You got to deal with some security rails, you got to deal. There's some other things that aren't necessarily built in. So you might need a developer kind of get you the final mile. But it does happen and that it is. It is happening much faster. But Vibe coding is really a thing, right? Hey, man, it was nice to meet you too. Yeah, I really appreciate you putting that. Nice. Put that back up there. Yeah, these guys, I met them at the. The party for Flair and I met him before in New York City. It was two years ago at the proper party, so that was really cool. I did get to meet Hugo Philly on as well. I don't know if I told you that But I did have a little. I did have a little session with him using the back and of the room, and we just kind of bullshitted for a while. I asked him to come on the podcast. He said he would. I said, matt, I invited you in. He goes, you reached out to my people? I go, we did. He goes, and what happened? I go, I don. We didn't hear from him. He goes, what? All right. He takes out his phone. He goes, chip, you got WhatsApp? And I said, of course I do. He goes, oh, that's so unusual. No. He goes, nobody in the US Uses it. I said, not unless you have European friends. I have friends all over Europe. That's all we use, is WhatsApp. Then he laughed. He thought that was funny. But he gave me his personal one. He's like, all right, you got my number, man. I texted him, hey, Hugo. He's like, hey, Chip. So, like, I got the direct line to Hugo anytime I want to reach out to him. And, you know, I'll give them a little bit of time to decompress, but we'll try to get Hugo on here as well.

[Jeff]

So that was another project.

[Chip]

The.

[Jeff]

The other part is, is the polarization within the community. Look how much. Look how much they beat up on flare, right? I mean, here's someone that's actually building, developing, coming up with something that is going to create the next kind of. The next phase of. Of crypto usage. And the flack that he got when they rolled out Songbird, you know, it just. It's just crazy. You know, community. The community is so fickle on some of this 100, you know, if it doesn't return, you know, instant get rich, quick speculative, you know, hype, and fomo, then they just want to fud it and they go after.

[Chip]

It's all about.

[Jeff]

It's all about the fomo, all about the fomo, dsn. When that happens, the work that used to feel effortless suddenly feels heavy. That's when founders start whispering to themselves, maybe I should pause. Maybe it's time to shut it down. But before that moment hits, there are ways to keep your energy and momentum alive. And I think this is. This is kind of walking through the mental anguish of a builder. You know, that's seen it, lived it, felt it, ups and downs, hitting a low point and getting ready to kind of boost, you know, boost himself beyond founder.

[Chip]

And selling your bitcoin to fund the project was. Sounds like a good idea at the time. Now when you look back on it, Jeff, he says, how do you keep momentum alive. Well, first of all, you trust your instinct, but you stay aware. So don't swing between chasing every new trend and ignoring reality. The best founders balance conviction and awareness. So your instinct drives the product. Awareness keeps it relevant.

[Jeff]

It. That's it. Then number 10 here, which is two to that point. Don't build in isolation. Being heads down sounds noble, but it's dangerous. You got to talk to other users or you got to talk to users. You have to DM other founders. Right. You got to share giraffes, test ideas publicly. You'll be surprised how many people feel the same pain that you do. Crypto rewards openness, not secrecy.

[Chip]

Yeah. And number three, choose investors that are teammates for their belief, not for their money. This is a big one. I know when I was looking for VC money went through 49 people. A lot of some of those were, were like, you know, angel. And every single time they wanted to take the idea and say, oh, it's this. I'm like, no, well, how do you monetize it? Well, I don't know. We'll just build it. I'm like, okay, so we don't have. So they would change it enough. And this point here about investors and teammates for their belief. The belief a lot of times is in your product or at least understanding what they're investing in. Because a lot of times, if you ever see a private equity money. I've been part of some pretty large firms that have been purchased by private equity. What's the first thing that happens? They kill the product. They don't try to. They try to get it more. They try to get it more lean. They tried to fix some problems over there, and they end up creating bigger problems to get rid of a lot of the people who were responsible for stuff. So they start cutting people, cutting jobs, cutting middle management, cutting management. Bringing new CEOs in who don't understand the business, don't understand the tech, and of course can't provide anything when it comes to vision. So these are kind of. They walk hand in hand. So he says, when things go well, every investor looks smart. When things go wrong, only the ones that believe in your vision matter. Same goes for early hires. Alignment is greater than skill set.

[Jeff]

It's good. And then four to that, redefine what progress means. In a down market, everything declines. Price metrics, mood. But the. But progress isn't always visible. This is interesting. It's finding your first 100 true users, shipping something that actually improves retention. Getting one believer who shares your conviction, and then that's real progress. That's interesting.

[Chip]

And then we're entering a new era for crypto. One that's slower, quieter and far more meaningful. The casino will always exist, but beneath the noise, the next big primitives are forming. Identity, stable coins, prediction markets, privacy. This is the boring phase that builds billion dollar foundations. That right there is such an important lie. This is the boring phase. But what you're built, what you're actually creating and building is much bigger than that.

[Jeff]

That's it. Love it. Love it. If you're tired, take a breath. Just don't walk away. Because when the noise clears, it's always the ones who kept building that define the cycle. Now is actually the best time to build Follow Expector and Universe City app. We have been here and here we will be and they are making some pivots and Expector, that whole universe has made a few pivots since the beginning as they're really trying to figure it out.

[Chip]

If you look at this university, Universe City, it's got an interesting spelling AI powered learning software as a service from web 2 to web 3. It's an edtech platform and virtual world AI did verify credentials, gamified education, XRPL polygon, edu chain. So some, it's pretty cool stuff. Cool stuff. Cool, cool. Yeah, this, this I think is going to be big. I've seen some early stuff and I'm pretty excited about that. But you know, Dirk is a guy that's hung in there. He's, he's hung around and this is, it's a really well done post. It's really difficult to drill it down into some small panels. But he said a lot with very little verbiage, which I, I can always appreciate because you can always get too verbose, write a bunch of stuff. It's like blah, blah, blah. And if anybody ever puts a post out there, they don't use spaces. I want to just punch myself in the face. Because, Matt, it's like so hard to read. You're like, you forget, you lose your space and it's like, you wouldn't. But people write emails like this. Jeff. I don't know if you like work at a company where people just, they don't even reread what they wrote. They just, I'm thinking about something and I'm gonna start typing it and when I'm typing it, I'm gonna think about it as I'm telling about. And you look back at that, you're like, dude, you could have just cut that, trim that and then boom. You have an email, but no, it's like stream of thought. Dump no spaces, no paragraphs. Like they don't understand what a paragraph is. Like you don't know and. And acts. You can make paragraphs, you know, you can highlight lines, mistakes, all sorts of things. Insane, Jeff. Insane. Yep, Insanity. I wanted to run through this one real quick too.

[Jeff]

WhatsApp. Verd Sirdon doesn't realize, didn't realize that Americans don't use WhatsApp. They're more and more engagement with WhatsApp, but, you know, not so much.

[Chip]

We did use it 15 years ago. Okay, it was very popular here about 15 years ago. And then 15 other things came on the scene and we went squirrel. I mean, in my world, I use, with all my friends is Signal. So I've been using Signal for a bunch of years, Jeff, and I use signal. WhatsApp. I don't trust as far as I can throw it. The interface is one of the worst interfaces I've ever seen. It's gotten worse over time. Never better signals, clean people. Like, I don't like signal. It's hard. I'm like, dude, it's a clean interface. It's encrypted. I don't trust anything through WhatsApp. And I mean, all my friends from Europe are on their uk all over Europe and stuff, but. And I generally use that I talked to. That's by the way, that's how I talked to Dirk. I talked to dirk over WhatsApp too. So it's just the WhatsApp type of thing. And there's a bunch of other people. But I. That's why he was like, jim, I'm surprised you have it. I'm like, well, I have friends in Europe. That's what they use. And I couldn't be bothered. Sir John, how come I don't have yours? Give me yours, I'll throw you some. Because I know if I ever needed to get rid of you Boomerangs. Listen to you. Boomerang. It's not a boomer rant, dude. Boomers are using WhatsApp, son. So maybe get your. Maybe get your stuff straight over there. The boomers are the ones using it. So I move on to the new tech, the better tech. So, yeah, I was like, I use both.

[Jeff]

I use WhatsApp and Signal.

[Chip]

But you use WhatsApp because you have to. I use what? I use what. I use Signal because I want to, right?

[Jeff]

Yeah, WhatsApp. Because everybody that you know, but a lot of people don't have Signal. But I like, I tell People about signal. I'd rather.

[Chip]

I do too. I'm like, download it. I don't have it. I go, here's the link. Click download.

[Jeff]

It's easy to download.

[Chip]

It's a done. Search it up. It's a done deal. Okay, let's go through some of these videos. We're running out of time here. But anyway, Jeff, I don't know anything. Any word on the. On the nft? Is it, is it, is it?

[Jeff]

No, no, it's not appearing yet. Huh, it's not showing up.

[Chip]

Oh, well, how about that? What's going on with that, Jeff? I don't understand what's going on with that. Let's do this.

[Jeff]

Sometimes it's quick, sometimes it takes a couple hours.

[Chip]

Yeah, it's really weird. I guess it's what I was in the queue. Anyway, Shifty Shift was on with what's his name? Antelopoulos. What the hell is his name? Papadopoulos. What the hell?

[Jeff]

I know this. Oh, Papadopoulos.

[Chip]

What the. No, that's. I don't know what his name. Stephanopoulos.

[Jeff]

Stephano, whatever is quite sensitive to you.

[Chip]

So hang on a second. So. So let's just say so he wants to know what's going on with this watermelon, which I'd like to know.

[Jeff]

Snuffleuphagus.

[Chip]

What happened? Hang on a second.

[Jeff]

Why is this matter is quite sensitive to you, but we have to talk about your watermelon head. I mean, come on. You do realize you have a weird looking head shaped like a watermelon, right? You know what, George? That is a Republican talking point and I don't want to talk about it. But at some point you have to talk about it, Senator.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I mean that bitch is huge and it's literally shaped just like a watermelon.

[Chip]

Can we. This is not.

[Jeff]

Can we just talk about something else, please? I can talk shit about Trump if you want. We'll get there, Senator. First, let's talk about your pencil neck. How can you even hold that big ass watermelon head with that tiny little pencil neck? You know what? This interview is over, George. Thank you.

[Chip]

Yeah, he did not like. He did not like George stuff at all.

[Jeff]

Not like that at all.

[Chip]

A giant watermelon head. Jeff, I saw this video and I must have watched it like three times. I think you're going to enjoy this. Here's. Here's the new New York. Here we go. Read, man. Stop that.

[AI Voice]

Stop.

[Jeff]

Get out of here.

[Chip]

This is not a religious place. Get the out.

[AI Voice]

Get the out.

[Chip]

This is not a religious Place.

[AI Voice]

Get out.

[Chip]

This is not a wicked place.

[AI Voice]

I fought for our nation.

[Chip]

This is not a religious place.

[Jeff]

Get the.

[Chip]

Damn. Damn. He wasn't. He was having none of that.

[Jeff]

Jeff was not happy.

[Chip]

She was having absolutely none of that. You know, so there's a lot of talk on, you know, like, yeah, apparently there's a. They're gonna end the shutdown. I'll talk about that. But, you know, at first I was against the filibuster. Jeff, I don't know how you are on the filibuster about ending it, because the point, listen what Trump says about it first. And I want to get your thoughts on this. Here we go.

[Jeff]

The way to do it for the Republicans is to terminate the filibuster. They call it the nuclear option. This is the second form of nuclear. Very good, very good. This is a good form. This is not a bad form. Yeah, I would have been in favor of that a long time ago. But, you know, the Democrats are going to do that. Most of you will admit the Democrats are going to do that. So why aren't we doing it? And I.

[Chip]

So he goes through some other things, too. I didn't realize.

[Jeff]

Oh, yeah.

[Chip]

But he's basically saying, like, the Democrats are going to do it, man. As soon as they get back in power, they're going to nuke it. Let me get rid of it.

[Jeff]

That's what they want to do.

[Chip]

Why don't they get rid of it? And then right before the, the, the midterms put it back in place.

[Jeff]

That's right, right.

[Chip]

Why not? Because you get. Because everyone's like, well, the, the, the Republicans lost in New Jersey. Meanwhile, that guy was up by 10, 12 points in Virginia. Was a very close race. But when some serious, some polls showed her up. Here's what I think, Jeff, do you trust these liberal blue states as far as you can throw them when it comes to election integrity? I don't.

[Jeff]

No. It's already been proven that they have zero integrity. Right. We've seen it firsthand in Broward. Broward, we had to actually march on the supervisor of election. Got out there. There were people here that were extremely outspoken. We almost lost the governorship because of the shenanigans and the cheating that was going on at the supervisor of election in Broward County. That was, that was a number of years ago then. We've seen 2020. We know the shenanigans. We know the cheating. We saw it in Michigan, we saw it in Arizona, we saw it in Pennsylvania. We saw it in New York. We saw it coast to coast and it's been proven over and over and over again, right? They keep bringing it up and they find exactly the methodology. They do it from ballot stuffing to removing ballots, to machines that are broken it incidentally in heavily, heavily Republican areas to ballots that are misprinted to lack of supplies to lack of ballots in oh, Republican areas. And it's been, and it's so well orchestrated across the board because as a whole, these supervisor of election offices at that level of government, you know, they're typically run by leftist activist Democrats. Right? They're not run by conservatives. Here. The supervisor of election was taken over. The governor had to remove the supervisor of election in Broward county because of everything she did and the way she ran it, the way they get away with it, like with her, she kept saying it's super confusing. So everything at her level was disorganized to a level of chaos. But it was purposeful chaos. And they did it because they knew that through the chaos they could orchestrate the theft of the election. Allen West, a number of years back when he was running, he was very close and he pushed and even the RPOF wouldn't back it up at the time, which, which was a sham after they re reworked his district and or, you know, tried to, you know, force him out. And that's a whole other conversation, you know, but he had called it out and said there was, you know, some mismanagement at the electoral, you know, process in terms of how they were managing and running things. And yet it fell on deaf ears. And we're seeing it again in New Jersey. We're seeing it, you know, again in, in New York, in Virginia. You know, you can see that the outcome doesn't match the way the outcome actually fell, even though they're heavy blue states. But it still just doesn't make sense that we're going to continue to allow the theft of election or the theft of votes. Right? The, the Democrats are real big when it's like count every vote. But what does the media do? The media calls it immediately when the Democrats winning, like, oh no, the Democrat won. Right? Let's, you don't have to count anymore. And, and the media is reporting on the win while there's still people in line while there's still, you know, votes that need to be counted and they haven't counted everyone and they do it based on a small margin. And they did it and they've done this. And this is another way of, of cheating the system. And, and it needs all of this Stuff has to, has to come to an end, you know, and I know that, you know, they're routing them out, they're bringing it to light. But the states have to take responsibility for this injustice of the system. Trump can't do everything. He's trying to do a lot at his level, but the states have to, the Republicans have to get balls and they have to start taking control of, of their, of their state politics and they're just not willing to, you know, they just want to keep the going. Instead, they would love to bring all these illegal immigrants in from all over the world to just sow chaos on the land. I think that's what they would prefer to have because that's another plot. Right. They've gone after all the minority groups, the Democrats, and realize that people, when they finally see who they really are, they no longer want to vote for them. So now they're, they're importing them, they're importing the votes and that's going to turn and blow up in their face too, because at the end, even, even the people they're bringing in or be like, we don't want to vote for you.

[Chip]

Right. Well, it does seem like I'm looking at some updated news here. I saw somebody who put this in there. Is that, was that the vote? 56 to 40. Was that a new vote tonight? I don't know. You got to give some more context. I don't know.

[Jeff]

I don't know where that came out.

[Chip]

Well, I don't know because I did see that they reached a deal and that was 21 minutes ago on this news article. So break a Democrat to reach the deal with the Senate GOP leaders.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Chip]

I think what they're going to do is they're going to keep it open for three more months and then what they're going to do is that they're going to have a vote on the aca. Just. What's that? The, the Obamacare stuff. All right, so that's, that's what they're saying. So, I don't know.

[Jeff]

Corrupted the health care system so bad.

[Chip]

I mean, it's, it's horrible.

[Jeff]

It is such a travesty. You know, there's such a dichotomy in healthcare. There's cash based medicine, which is progressing at warp speed right now into biohacking and all these things that you can do to change the, your body, to change the age of your body, like the actual age of, you know, if you do a comparative to other people of your age group, you Know, where. Where do you fall on that scale? And it's such a travesty. You know, the whole. The whole medical system has been set up along this path of sick care, and they want to. They want you as a dollar sign to move through the system because eventually you end up either surgery or hospitalization, and they want you there. They want you to follow that path. They want you to keep coming back and get a disease that is incurable. Or, you know, they. You need to be on pharmaceuticals that cost a ton of money, that eventually put you in the hospital that eventually might lead to surgery. Because obviously the surgeons need to make money, because if there's another solution out there that prevented surgery, obviously the surgeons would be out of business. So it's just this vicious cycle, and Obamacare is a big part of it, right?

[Chip]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

Instead of going across state lines to make healthcare competitive, they're like, here, let the government do it. Okay, well, healthcare is not competitive anymore. No one has an. An incentive to get better, to improve the. The product that they're delivering you. I mean, that's the end. That's what DS was also. I mean, kind of the reference point of that is you have to keep progressing and building, but we also need competition. You need to have a competitive edge. You have to keep getting better and better. And Obamacare set it up so that, oh, it's like we don't even have to compete.

[Chip]

Right. Steve Willis says, what's the solution? Digital id? No problem reaction solution, but art has it right here. It's Life Wave x39. Hit art up if you want to learn more. That's it. Here we go. Fabio from. From Zao Dao said, hey, boys, how's your X account going? Is out count still down despite all the hefty fees. This is a crazy thing. You know, when you're in a. When you're that level of account for a company, you pay a lot of money every month, and there's nobody to escalate it to so little to zero support from the X team. Appreciate that. Thank you, Fabio. Appreciate that. So hopefully that should be being resolved. But it's just if you're paying money for an account, there should be somebody to escalate to. Or if you're going to have AI, why don't you have AI that, you know, does customer service and at least help people? Because it's like, you know, we saw like, when Jungle got his account taken, other people, there's how two, three months to get it back when people are taking it over and Running scams. It's just. It's a little too much, Jeff. It's a little too, too much. All. All the time. Mark Smithson says that Hussein destroyed us in so many ways. Yeah, he did. But here's. Here's a video on. Somebody talked about Madame, Here we go.

[AI Voice]

Donnie just posted a video saying that his first order of business on day one is going to be for the city to take ownership of people's private properties. And how is he going to go about this? First of all, he's going to make it so unaffordable for these landlords to make any repairs because of rent freezing. If you freeze the rent, then the landlords eventually won't be able to pay for the repairs because they're not getting the same income, they're not making the same amount of money as they used to. Number two, he's then going to give these people fines because they're not doing the repairs. And these fines are going to be huge. Then once the city comes back in and says, oh, you know what? You didn't do the repairs, you didn't pay the fines. We are now going to take your property because you are an unfit landlord. City's going to take a property, take ownership, and then they're going to turn that property into subsidized housing. Who's that housing going to benefit? It's going to benefit criminals, it's going to benefit illegals. It's going to benefit the process. It's going to benefit all of the people that Mamdani is going to let out of the prisons. And on top of it, there aren't going to be any police because that's his other order of business is going to be to defund the police. Basically, Mom Donnie's turning New York City into a third world country. Meanwhile, white liberal women are literally like parading around singing the Little Mom Donnies on thinking that they did such a good job. When you live next to criminals and you're paying $6,000 a month and they're not, then we'll see how happy you are.

[Chip]

Wait till the rapes happen. Wait till the rapes, the groping, the all, all the sexual assaults happen. The crime is going to go through the roof because he also wants to decriminalize. Remember, they did that in California. Anything on their thousand. So making only $2,000, the police aren't even half. The police aren't going to have jobs anymore. This is what happens when socialism takes over. Don't worry, it's going to be good for 1 or 2% that are at the top and everybody underneath it. Good luck. So it's going to be an absolute show. And Jeff, you know, we're going to be there to cover all of it.

[Jeff]

I can't wait. I can't wait.

[Chip]

100. This is a. I gotta. Oh, hang on, hang on. I gotta. I gotta turn the music down. This is AI, of course, but it's Sydney, sweetie. I don't know if he caught the interview, the interview where she was. The. The liberal was trying to get her to say, don't you feel bad for being white? Type of thing. And she was just like. She kind of came back and said, when I got something to say, I'll let you know. She's basically threw right back in her. So they're giving her all kinds of incoming. I've never had more respect for anybody in Hollywood that. Especially somebody young who gets zero Fs about these people. So she has a sign she's holding. It says, cry more libs. Now she's blowing them a kiss here, but there's your kiss. And then check out this next one here that she comes out signs. She holds up Trump 2028. Of course, that's AI but it's fantastic. I love it.

[Jeff]

It's.

[Chip]

It's. It's pretty awesome. Yeah, you gotta. You gotta love that.

[Jeff]

Oh, Steve Willett said my AI robot has shifty eyes. I don't trust him.

[Chip]

Yeah, he's. I mean, I don't know. It'd be weird. Like, one day, your. Your AI agent, you know, your robot that's doing all your stuff and heavy lifting and manual labor, cutting the lawn, whatever, just goes, you know what? Dave locks you out. That's like Odyssey 2001. Sorry, Dave.

[Jeff]

Exactly.

[Chip]

I've watched your ass out. Look at this guy. Now. This guy showed up to vote. This is on for the election. This is this past Tuesday in New York City. Look at this.

[Voter]

So you don't want my id? How do you know it's me then?

[Chip]

We can look up by manual.

[Voter]

I could just give you a fake name.

[Chip]

We can give you a bimanual signature. We. We check signatures.

[Jeff]

Yeah, Jeff, they check signatures.

[Chip]

Jeff, have you ever gone. You. You know what? You know when you have to sign something, I always just put a giant X. And they go, is that your signature? And I'm like, are you. Is there an official person checking signatures? Well, they might check. I'm like, nobody checks signatures ever.

[Jeff]

Right?

[Chip]

Sometimes I put a squiggly line. Sometimes I put a happy face. They go, Is that really. I'm like, okay, are you gonna. Am I not gonna be able to buy it because I didn't sign it properly? Who knows this guy.

[Jeff]

Who's going to check it?

[Chip]

Who Listen to the bullshit.

[Jeff]

What level of the corporate structure, government structure and banking. So if a corporation says there is that your signature? Okay, how is the corporation going to even know a. Are they looking? If they look on the back of your credit card, maybe. But then the back year credit card, if you don't sign it, you know, back in the day, they weren't supposed to take it. Then you're supposed to sign it. What if you just have a line through the credit card? Here's my signature there.

[Chip]

Who cares?

[Jeff]

Exactly.

[Chip]

I sign it every time. Sometimes I just write bunch of squiggles and then I do this.

[Jeff]

Exactly. It's.

[Chip]

If you've ever been like, Speaking of boomers, if you ever been like in, in a, in a checkout, like sometimes grocery stores will still. I don't know why they do this. They still accept checks and they're. And this never fails. Like I'm trying to get out of there. The person has three things. I jump in that line, go, this is great. You know, sometimes they don't have the self checkouts. If they don't, I always do that. But you get in line, the person is filling this thing out like it matters. Like it's going to get framed and blown up and put on a giant museum wall somewhere. And when it comes time to do in their name, they're doing like this kind of When Trump signs those executive agreements and I'm looking over, I'm like, they're still signing their. And then they do this and then they hand it to them. And I'm like, God, please. My wife laughs at me. She said, when's the last time you own checks? I go, I think it was like 1999. I've been paying online for this, like 96, 97. I go, sometimes if I've ever had to get a check, I have to go get a bank check. And that's a pain in the ass. Who uses checks anymore? This is ridiculous. Go ahead, call me Boomer in the comments again. Go ahead, I dare you. Call me Boomer in the comments again.

[Jeff]

I definitely don't have a checkbook.

[Chip]

Here we go. So listen to the rest of this.

[Voter]

If you don't check id, how you want to know?

[Chip]

This is our signature manual entry.

[Jeff]

We have the signature on top.

[Chip]

Show him when he's sewing first three letters of your last Name.

[Voter]

You got it right.

[Chip]

First three letters of your last name.

[Voter]

I gave you my id.

[Chip]

Why don't you just.

[AI Voice]

First three letters of your last name, sir.

[Voter]

You guys making this difficult. We're gonna make.

[Jeff]

Is he giving you his ID to look at?

[Chip]

Okay, give it to him.

[Guest Speaker]

Give it.

[Jeff]

We're not supposed to, but I'm giving.

[Voter]

It to you so that it's easy.

[Chip]

We're not supposed to ask what a bunch of you think that. You think the socialist got elected? They're not supposed to ask for your ID So they can bust hundreds of people in. They can bust, you know. You know, all kinds of. Of strange characters and.

[Jeff]

Right, yeah, absolutely.

[Voter]

Because that could be somebody who's just pretending to be somebody.

[Chip]

You're absolutely right.

[Voter]

I don't think you want me to pretend to ask. It doesn't matter.

[Chip]

I'm not supposed to ask for a.

[Voter]

D. How do you know it's the right person?

[Chip]

We have a signature on file.

[Voter]

I get it, but if I'm giving you my id, it's so that you can verify for sure it's me.

[AI Voice]

I found him by his date of birth.

[Chip]

Who? Oh, you found him.

[AI Voice]

Yeah, by his date of birth.

[Voter]

That was a nuts. But I'm here now with this.

[AI Voice]

Start over.

[Jeff]

Go to manual entry. Oh, my God.

[AI Voice]

Put in his birthday. That's how I found him.

[Jeff]

Put in his date of birth. That's how they're gonna find it.

[Voter]

Just trying to make it easy for you guys.

[Chip]

Understand what we were told.

[Voter]

I don't. I don't care what you were told. I'm making it easier for you guys. Yes, but I'm giving you guys my.

[Chip]

Id, so put it in front of my face. I'm gonna.

[Jeff]

I'm not gonna.

[Voter]

Obviously I'm not gonna do that.

[Jeff]

I'm telling you.

[Voter]

Do you need my id?

[Jeff]

Here's my id.

[Chip]

Take it, use it.

[Voter]

That's what it's for, identification. To identify who I am, if I'm the right person or not.

[Chip]

They don't care. Jeff, in Florida, you get kicked out. I remember one time I went to go vote for Laura Loomer one time, and I ran all the way down there, and I didn't have my idea. They go like, oh, you have your idea. I'm like, oh, I forgot it. They go. I'm like, it's just a primary. Go like. Like you. Are you really gonna make me go back? And they're like, you have to have an id. We have to see it. We have to look at it. We have to validate it meanwhile, they're like, oh, we're not supposed to ask for your id. How you gonna look it up? A signature on file. What signature on file? They didn't even look at a signatron file. This is ridiculous.

[Jeff]

When did you sign anything? When have you signed something that they would have yours?

[Chip]

When your voter registration maybe. But do they have. What's. What's the odds they have that, Jeff.

[Jeff]

What file are they pulling that in? Okay, pull it up in front of me. Let me see your file. Let me see my signature on file.

[Chip]

What are the freaking odds that they even have any of that stuff? I mean, do you think for one minute they're going to have that stuff? I doubt it. I 100$. Look at this right here. This guy. I love these kind of like people on the street. He's in New York City and he starts asking about socialism, right? These are the dumbest humans on the planet, these people. These kids went through school, they graduated, they don't even know how to read. They never even know like basic stuff about the United States or life in general. You ask the capital of a. Of a city, that of a. Of a state, they don't know it. If you ask them, you know where France is, they don't know. They don't know any of this stuff. But anyway, he goes there and listen to this.

[AI Voice]

Socialism means we're a little rocky on it.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Over 1 million New Yorkers.

[Chip]

They're a little rocky on it, but they voted for Mandami. Okay, they're a little rocky. Hey, at least I'll give her some credit. She at least was honest.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Over 1 million New Yorkers voted for Zoran Mamdani, a democratic socialist.

[David Schwartz]

But do they really know what socialism means?

[Zoran Mamdani]

This is the toys. They shared a children's book. Tommy had toys, but they weren't the best. He dreamed of the ones that outshined the rest.

[David Schwartz]

So he made a big plan with lemons and ice. Also lemonade, a fair little price.

[Zoran Mamdani]

He worked in the sun, he saved every dime. He cleaned up his stand and he squeezed all the time to the store.

[David Schwartz]

He ran with his dollars in hand. He bought racing cars and a cool robot band.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Now Tommy had toys that made people cheer. But not everyone smiled. Some frowned. Ear to ear is where it starts heating up. Oh, so why does he get those toys? Grumbled Dan. He's no better than me. We need a new plan.

[David Schwartz]

And he gathered his friends and he made quite a case.

[Chip]

Let's take his toys and split them. Create a fair space.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Oh no. He just Got lucky. One kid added in. Why should he get the prize while we don't even win?

[David Schwartz]

Tommy was shocked, but I worked every day while you all had fun and just wanted to play.

[Zoran Mamdani]

The kids didn't care. They took what they could, saying, sharing is nice. It's for the whole neighborhood.

[David Schwartz]

But soon things went wrong, as they always do when nobody earns and just takes from a few.

[Chip]

No one sold lemons.

[Jeff]

No money was made. The toys broke apart and the lemonade stayed.

[Chip]

The fun disappeared, and the stand fell apart because no one had the reason.

[Jeff]

To make a new start.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Now here comes the part where you. You can speak loud. Does Tommy deserve his toys or should they be shared with the crowd?

[David Schwartz]

If you had a vote and you had a say, what would you decide and how would you play?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Do you think that Tommy should have to share his toys with the other kids that didn't work as hard as him?

[Chip]

I don't think so.

[AI Voice]

Because the only reason he worked to make his toys is because he didn't.

[Chip]

Have the same toys as them. Yeah.

[AI Voice]

He deserves to keep his own own toys. The part of my brain that wants to be like, sharing is so important. And, like, the message is beautiful. If the kids are using sharing as an idea to then steal.

[Chip]

Yeah.

[AI Voice]

Right? I don't know. It's. Yeah. I feel interesting.

[David Schwartz]

I feel the conflicted inside.

[AI Voice]

A little conflicted.

[David Schwartz]

Okay.

[Chip]

Okay.

[Jeff]

I don't think they should take them.

[AI Voice]

I think that if Tommy feels in his heart that he can share like he should share, but I don't think that any of them are entitled to using his defense.

[Jeff]

Who did you guys vote for in.

[David Schwartz]

The elections, if I may ask?

[AI Voice]

Mamdani.

[David Schwartz]

Mamdani. Yeah.

[Jeff]

I support Zoran.

[Chip]

I also lean towards Mamdani.

[AI Voice]

I'm more leaning towards Democratic team.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Team Zoran.

[Jeff]

Yeah, I voted for Mamdani as well. Okay.

[David Schwartz]

And why did you vote for Mamdani?

[Chip]

He's a pretty fun personality.

[AI Voice]

He.

[Chip]

He's got a kind heart. So we're just here for the vibes. No policies.

[AI Voice]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Do you know what socialism means?

[AI Voice]

We're a little rocky on it.

[Jeff]

Like, what a great video.

[Chip]

That's a fantastic video. When they. When they sort of discover you don't say it's socialism, but they don't think it's a good idea for somebody would give up what they worked for, then all of a sudden, they don't like it. But, hey, you know, they're all for it in the beginning. I mean, it's just funny. Socialism is fine until you run out of other People's money. That's exactly right. That's what famous Prime Minister from the UK once said. She was so spot on. Look at this right here. Sir John says Tommy should have taken all the toys from has been. And the toys be given to the children of the party secretaries. Tommy should be put in prison for praising private ownership too. Pretty much. That's kind of how it works. If only Disney. Yeah, right. If only. One day in the future we'll need a weed boomer. There you go. Check this out, Jeff. People ask, what are they fighting for? Listen to this.

[AI Voice]

Why are you fighting?

[Jeff]

So my great grandchildren can be a minority in their own country.

[Chip]

Why are you fighting?

[AI Voice]

So men can wear women's clothes and use their bathrooms.

[Chip]

Why are you fighting?

[Jeff]

So a Muslim can be mayor of London.

[AI Voice]

Why are you fighting?

[Jeff]

So men can travel by small dinghies across the English Channel.

[AI Voice]

Why are you fighting?

[Jeff]

So my children can pay for a Marxist education and call me a racist. Huh. It just tells you everything. That was. That was spot on.

[Chip]

And check out this new airlines. Jeff, what do you think about this new airlines?

[AI Voice]

Welcome to Virtue Airlines, the progressive airline for people who cancel everything except their holidays.

[Jeff]

We offer direct flights to Cuba, China and North Korea, but no one actually moves there.

[Chip]

Obviously.

[Jeff]

I was nervous about flying, but then my wife's boyfriend reminded me, discomfort is growth.

[Chip]

We fly through clouds.

[Jeff]

Typical Western.

[Chip]

Gotta be careful. We offset our carbon emissions. Feeling really bad about them. So we're emotionally net zero. This is too much.

[Jeff]

Who puts that stuff out?

[Chip]

I don't know, man. It's some of the greatest stuff ever. Thank God for AI being able to take these ideas and really turn it into something really a lot of fun, man. It's just. It's too much. And then I want to leave you with this one, Jeff, before we get out of here, but I actually caught this whole podcast. This is one of my new favorite podcasters. But check this out. This is. I thought this was really interesting. Really interesting guest. There you go.

[Jeff]

How far? Oh, this is interesting.

[Guest Speaker]

You are ready for the number?

[Jeff]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

At one point, I projected under 400. Under 400 million.

[AI Voice]

What?

[Guest Speaker]

500 million.

[Chip]

So China's 1.4 billion population is a complete lie. It's much lower. So she. She was a great guest and she brought stats. She brought a lot of stuff. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Under 500 million.

[Jeff]

Under 500 million. So you think that they have a very similar population to the United States and China?

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[Jeff]

Wow.

[Guest Speaker]

There's 1 billion people missing.

[Jeff]

And this goes back to what we were saying in the Beginning or earlier in the podcast with all of the fake IDs and all of this stuff being found out.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. There's possibly 1 billion people missing. It's not a demographic question, Danny, it's a mathematical question. Let me ask you. It takes a couple to have two children to replace themselves, right? Think about it.

[Jeff]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

If every couple produces two children, the population distinct level. Right. So do you know how many children does every woman needs to have in her lifetime in order to triple its population in 50 years?

[Jeff]

To triple its population in 50 years, you need to have what? Let me guess. I'm terrible at math.

[Guest Speaker]

I, I, I gave you, I'll give you the answer because I asked. AI, it's, it's a crazy mathematical. If, if a country needs to triple or grow its population by 2.2 and a half times. Let's just say 2 and a half times.

[Chip]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

Over a span of 50 years, five kids, each woman. You're right. Each woman needs to give birth, on average, between four and a half to five and a half children.

[Chip]

Wow.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay. Now, China grew its population officially from 1950. That's when the CCP took over to control. Okay. China's population in 1950 was about 500 million in the year 2000. Fifty years later, China's population was about 1.24, 1.27 billion. Okay, so it grew two and a half times.

[Chip]

Right.

[Guest Speaker]

From 500 million to 1.27 billion. That's two and a half times over 50 years. Over 50 years, Chinese women did not have, on average, have five children because of the one child policy. Yes, because of the great Famine. Because the great famine, tens of million people died because of Cultural Revolution. So China, from one political movement to another, and then to almost four decades of single child policy. There's no way Chinese women had five kids. Actually, the average fertility rate for each woman was 1.7 for the 30 year from 1990 to 2020. Okay. Chinese average fertility rate is probably 2 from the 50 years. So it's a mathematical question. There's no way Chinese women gave birth to five kids from the time the CCP took control to year 2000. That's my argument, number one. So there's no way China could have reached 1.27 billion people by the year 2000.

[Chip]

Right.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay. And why do they implement the one.

[Jeff]

Child policy in the first place?

[Guest Speaker]

They thought they have too many people.

[Jeff]

Did they really think they had too many people or were they just trying to reject.

[Guest Speaker]

I think they, the country was on the brink of bankruptcy. They could not afford to raise that many people. Okay, and then the second question, that was a mathematical question, and anyone who's in statistics can calculate that. Second question is, it's a comparative study. India in 1990 had a population of 900 million, or about 900 million, which is only 200 million. Under China's population of 1.1 million. 1.1 billion. In 1990, 1990, there were only 200 million people apart, within 20%. Now, over the next 30 years, China's fertility rate, according to the government, is 1.7, meaning every woman gives birth or gave birth to 1.7 kids. India's fertility rate is double. That is over 3. Okay, so how could 30 years later, so now we're in 2020, how could China still have more people than India?

[Chip]

Right? They wouldn't.

[Jeff]

India would pass them.

[Guest Speaker]

Mathematically, it's impossible. So I asked AI, how many people should China have, assuming their fertility rate is correct, in the year 2020? Right. AI gave me 800.

[Chip]

There you go. By the way, that's Danny Jones podcast and it's great. I listen to a lot of his podcasts. He has all kinds of weird conspiracy theory people on there and all kinds of cool people on there like that. They're just really good conversations.

[Jeff]

So I, Sir John saying, after I've counted for myself, I seriously asked myself, how many people are actually on earth for real? Then you think about it. You go to a place like Canada and there's 30 million people. The population of Canada is supposed to be 30 million.

[Chip]

Right?

[Jeff]

You go to California. California is 35 million.

[Chip]

Right. UK, Florida is 22 or 23 million. Yeah, 22 or 23 million soon in New York.

[Jeff]

But yeah, so all of those things. And then do we know the actual population of, you know, what's going on in these countries that they're now mass importing people from? Right? They're changing the demographic significantly. Forget about, you know, race and all of that, but just the, the mentality, right? The, the, the cultural differences. You take someone from a third world country and you just dump them in mass numbers into a first world country, what do you think's going to happen, right? Everything is going to be turned upside down. You know, now they're seeing these, these populations of people. They're selling stuff off the street corners, right? They're haggling in the streets right off the sidewalk. There's all these street vendors. Who knows what if they're selling cat dog meat? Who knows what they're selling? Because in these other countries, they get what they get. And now they're importing them in. And if you have a couple of people coming in and you're regulating it and you know who they're cut, you know who they are, and it's controlled and they want to be there and they're passionate about being there. That's different, you know, and then eventually the, the cult culturals, you know, cultures tend to stick together, you know, and you see that anywhere, you know, but then the next generation becomes like in the United States, right, People that, you know, fled Cuba and Venezuela, many of them didn't speak English. You go to Miami, not a lot of English in first generation number one. Generation number two, the kids are now bilingual, you know, and they might speak English with a Spanish accent. Completely bilingual. And they're, you know, part of society. And it's just, it's interesting, right, to see that dynamic. Same thing from Italy, same thing from a lot of, you know, the Arab countries, you know, same thing from, from everywhere. That first generation didn't speak English. Second generation become Americans that, you know. But now when you mass migrate these people, they're it. The only purpose is to displace the culture because you can't take an opposing culture in mass numbers of people and just deposit them. And so it's, you know, so now we look around, what are, what are, you know, all the numbers. Where are, you know, the, the numbers that we've been given based on census, you know, all this stuff is just so inaccurate, you know, are there 1.2 billion or 500 million?

[Chip]

I like people staying in their own countries because they tend to make the other countries. Smith is bringing up a good point. He says, yeah, but there's 500 million Chinese and U. S universities. This is funny. He says, they say that 99 of the population, stupid. I'm glad to be a member of the other 2%. Very good. Well, it's.

[Jeff]

Look at that. Croatia is 3.8 million with about 300,000 Nepalese and Indian. What a disaster. Don't know how to use the toilet. Food delivery, manual work. That's it, right?

[Chip]

Stay in your country where they, where they pick it up with their hands and they put it in big bins, please.

[Jeff]

But that, that's how it's done there. You bring them into new culture. There has to be an assimilation process. If you don't, if there's no assimilation process and you're just going to let them go for free, just do what you want, live the way you lived. Except now you're in our country, that doesn't work. And, and it's been proven to not work.

[Chip]

Just ship everybody back to where they came from. That's what's the purpose of language, culture, borders. If. If you're just gonna destroy it. I don't understand them anymore. It really is will. It says there's supposed to be more millionaires in India than the population of Australia.

[Jeff]

That's true. That's 100% true. If the pop. The population. When I was doing a lot of work there, I met with lots of people, government officials and everything. And it was interesting because they broke down the population and let's say it was 1.2 billion. And they said there are about 200 million people wealthy beyond wealthy. Right then there were maybe 300 million that would be considered, you know, middle class to upper middle class. And then the rest were. Were in poverty. Different layers, levels of poverty, from kind of lower middle class all the way down to completely impoverished. Where they lived under the bridges. I was literally living under bridges. It was crazy.

[Chip]

Then Van down by the river.

[Jeff]

The number of people that I saw there, whether, you know, when we were in Chennai and Mumbai and no matter where we went, just the sheer volume of people was. Was astonishing to me. It was just. It was crazy to see how many people were there. I don't know. I didn't.

[Chip]

Crazy. The fact that it's 1/17 minutes past the hour, that's crazy.

[Jeff]

How did that happen?

[Chip]

I'll tell you what happens. We talked too much.

[Jeff]

We didn't get. We did talk too much and the NFT still didn't do its thing.

[Chip]

We couldn't have given away if we wanted to, but that's all the time we have. Guys, we're going to be back.

[Jeff]

That's right.

[Chip]

Oh, you don't keep your kebabs.

[Jeff]

Just better not take away.

[Chip]

I just don't understand the whole theory of trying to turn everything into a third world country. Like, where is the. Where's the advancement in society? You know, you looked at like some societies never advanced past a certain point. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that, you know, we like our modern freedoms and comforts and it's what we want, you know, it's. We don't need.

[Jeff]

Let's help them. If they want to modernize.

[Chip]

Yeah, if they, if they want, then good luck. If you don't, then not here. Third world's your thing. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you. Jeff. I don't know what to tell these people, but that's all the time we have. We'll be back on Wednesday night. That's all we have. Chip and Jeff ready?

[Jeff]

Jeff, what time? 8:00pm.

[Chip]

All right. Same schedule for six years. Jeff, come on, man.

[Jeff]

Some people get.

[Chip]

We're gonna have Jungle Inc. On. I've been talking to Jungle. He's like, what's your schedule? I'm like, bro, it's the same schedule for six years. Five years now. Damn it. He's on the west coast. So he's like. He goes, well, I'll do Saturday. I go, dude, it's 5am a little. Seem a little early for you. He goes, oh, yeah, I forgot you guys are at East Coast. I was like, yeah, so, yeah, he'll probably be on the following Wednesday now. Or maybe this. Oh, you can't do Wednesday. Sunday night. He'll be on the next Sunday.

[Jeff]

Sunday, Sunday, Sunday.

[Chip]

One day only. Sunday. Ready, guys? That's it. That's all we have. Chip and Jim in the next one.

[Jeff]

Are you down with otc?

[Chip]

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[Jeff]

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