Podcast Summary: Unemployable with Jeff Dudan

Episode 220: "Pricing, Self-Worth & the Trades: Why Most Service Businesses Stay Broke" with Ellen Rohr

Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Jeff Dudan (Homefront Brands)
Guest: Ellen Rohr – President, Benjamin Franklin Plumbing; Co-founder, Zoom Drain; ServiceTitan advocate

Episode Overview

This high-energy episode features industry expert Ellen Rohr in a candid, dynamic discussion with host Jeff Dudan about the often-overlooked keys to success in service businesses—particularly in the trades. The conversation dives deeply into the real reasons most businesses struggle financially, emphasizing the intersection of pricing, self-worth, and operational strategy, and it delivers hard-earned wisdom for self-starters in the home services sector. Ellen and Jeff mix storytelling, hard data, and tactical advice in a lively back-and-forth full of memorable quotes, laughter, and actionable takeaways.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ellen's Journey and Industry Influence (00:50–03:00)

• Ellen’s Origin Story: From joining her husband "Hot Rod" after a tragedy in his plumbing business, learning bookkeeping, receiving mentorship, eventually becoming President of Benjamin Franklin Plumbing, to cofounding Zoom Drain and working with ServiceTitan.
• Self-Designation: Ellen and Jeff bond over a shared passion for empowering people and elevating the trades, noting, “We have a river that runs through us... helping people and absolutely being in love with the trades.” (01:47, Ellen)

2. The Fatal Flaw: Underpricing in Service Businesses (02:01–06:33)

• Ellen’s Core Message: “There’s no operational fix to being underpriced. You can’t cut your way to financial freedom... They got their kids working for free, and the customer gets away with a price that is not reasonable.” (02:17, Ellen)
• Root Causes:
  • Lack of confidence, lack of training, worrying about competition, underestimating value.
  • Most critically, low self-esteem in the trades: “The number one cause of the problems in our industry is a lack of self esteem.” (03:56, Ellen, paraphrasing mentor Frank Blau)
• Building Self-Worth: Ellen reframes drain cleaning as disease prevention and global public health, boosting pride among new recruits:
  • “Tell your mom this: drain cleaners have prevented more disease than doctors will ever cure... you’re going to make a lot of money... you may never be in a cubicle in your life, which could be pretty cool.” (05:00, Ellen)

3. Self-Esteem, Culture, and Trade Perceptions (07:44–14:00)

• Trade Stereotypes:
  • Fun tangent: most "arrogant" trade? Consensus—HVAC, but with respect, as HVAC pioneered upskilling, marketing, and higher pricing, helping elevate the whole industry.
  • “They did everybody a favor because they started to elevate the trades in a way that... the rest of us have been following suit.” (09:10, Ellen)
• Micro-Niches:
  • Emphasis on scalable, “sexy” micro-niches like drain cleaning, power washing, landscaping maintenance.

4. Stop Compromising: Thinking Bigger & Building with Intention (14:00–22:58)

• Comparison & Ambition:
  • Jeff: “Comparison is the thief of joy. Envy is the enemy of enlightenment.” (15:59)
  • Learn from others, but focus on your own runway—don’t abdicate your dreams.
• Success Tip Role Plays:
  • Ellen: “Figure out your numbers... you’re going to have to raise your prices.”
  • Jeff: “Think bigger. You'll only accomplish a subset of the bold vision you set... find a bigger room.” (18:34)
  • Setting a minimum dollar value on one’s time to drive focus.

5. The Power of Mentorship and Taking Action (22:58–25:47)

• Teaching & Learning: Both agree the biggest leap comes from teaching and helping others: “I make the biggest improvements when I’m teaching.” (24:02, Jeff)
• Self-Awareness & Letting Go: Ellen stresses working within your own “hula hoop”—focus on what you can control. Don’t waste time on people who aren’t ready for accountability. Take time for deep reflection and self-fulfillment (25:47–29:53).

6. Time Management & Replaceability (32:16–36:57)

• Time Blocking: Ellen’s calendar is sacred; time blocking keeps her effective and protects priorities.
• Letting Go: Anecdotes about being easily replaced demonstrate both humility and freedom: “Did not one call. Not even Tab called me... you’re just always replaceable. And it's freeing.” (35:54)
• Empowering Teams: Let teams make decisions and handle challenges; trust builds stronger businesses.

7. Pricing as the Big Lever—Margins Over Frugality (36:57–53:00+)

• The Power of Pricing:
  • Small increases in price have huge effects on profitability, more than cutting expenses. “Don’t cut 5% [of price]... you just took off all your profit.” (36:57, Jeff)
  • Ellen champions open-book management and financial transparency, influenced by Jack Stack’s The Great Game of Business.
• Notable Story: Frank Blau’s fundamental advice: “You’ve got to charge more than it costs.” (38:34, Ellen)
  Ellen learned to communicate price rises to her team through basic math, leading to quintupling prices, rooted in open-book management before she had a name for it.
• Delivering Price: Build the muscle of stating prices with confidence, then being silent.
  • “Don’t let your lip quiver when you deliver the price.” (49:10, Jeff)
  • “Say the price and shut up.” (49:20, Ellen)

8. Supply Chain and the True Cost of Service (49:22–53:49)

• Copper Elbow Story: A compelling story tracing a simple product through its global supply chain, underlining how pricing supports every person along the way. “You are responsible for them. So there’s another story for you.” (52:52, Ellen)

9. Building Sellable Businesses and Industry Consolidation (57:08–66:21)

• Consolidation Trends:
  • Private equity and platform companies are actively acquiring franchise and service businesses. There’s real wealth and opportunity for those prepared.
  • Advice to all: Think about your exit on day one. Bo Burlingham’s Finish Big and Michael Gerber’s E-Myth get shoutouts as foundational books.
• Deal-Making Mindset: Even small businesses can craft acquisition deals—for example, absorbing local competitors’ phone numbers and customers for a cut of sales.
• Systems vs. Hustle: Systematize to create businesses that don’t depend on you—the “Morton’s” model over “chef-driven” uniqueness.

10. The Role of AI in the Trades (74:48–77:04)

• Transformation Through Tech:
  • AI is reducing administrative burden, freeing technicians to focus on high-value, customer-facing work.
  • “If we can get AI to take the points of pain out of their lives, you're going to really attract some great people to the industry.” (75:36, Ellen)
  • Advent of AI in lead generation, back-office, data entry—home services remains comparatively protected from full automation due to the need for on-site human expertise.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On self-worth in the trades:
  “The number one cause of the problems in our industry is a lack of self esteem... once you see someone [succeed], you start to think, oh, wow, this is not just a fallback, this is the game.” — Ellen (03:56/09:10)

• On ambition and thinking big:
  “You will only accomplish a subset of the bold vision that you cast for yourself and your business. So if you don’t think big enough, you’re going to be making decisions against too low of a ceiling.” — Jeff (18:34)

• On being replaceable:
  “He was 33, worked himself into a health crisis, and the last words he said to me were, ‘If I don't do it myself, it'll never get done.’ And he died, and it got done. We are infinitely important. We’re also absolutely replaceable.” — Ellen (32:50)

• On pricing:
  “There’s no operational fix to being underpriced. You can’t cut your way to financial freedom.” — Ellen (02:17)
  “Don’t let your lip quiver when you deliver the price... give it with confidence. This is what it is.” — Jeff (49:10)

• On building a business for sale:
  “The day you start your business, you should think about how you’re going to exit your business, because everybody exits.” — Ellen (57:36)

• On opportunity and service businesses:
  “If you’re going to be broke, don’t be tired too... don’t hustle 70 hours a week to be broke.” — Jeff (53:49)

• On living your values:
  “Self-awareness is getting clear on what it is that you really, really want. It’s not selfish. It’s self-fulfillment.” — Ellen (29:54)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ellen’s Industry Journey & Framing the Trades: 00:50–06:33
• Self-Esteem and Perceptions in Service Professions: 07:44–14:00
• Advice on Pricing, Value, and Business Growth: 14:00–35:54
• Letting Go, Delegation, and Empowerment: 32:16–36:57
• Pricing as Leverage (Stories & Tactics): 36:57–53:49
• Building Sellable/Acquirable Companies: 57:08–66:21
• AI in the Trades: 74:48–77:04

Final Lightning Round & Takeaways

If you had to start a new business in 30 days, unrelated to your current work?
“I love me a truck business... a coffee truck, food truck, landscaping, mobile dog washing—anything mobile, and work for rich people... Robin Hood it. Go find rich people, take their money, make them happy.” (79:04, Ellen)

One-sentence life advice:
“Default to love. Whatever happens, provide that person that and you will do okay.” (82:20, Ellen)

Connect with Ellen Rohr

• Website: ellenrohr.com
• Email: ellen@ellenrohr.com
• ServiceTitan: servicetitan.com
• Zoom Drain Franchise: zoomdrainfranchise.com

Episode Tone & Language

Warm, dynamic, slightly irreverent, grounded in real-world experience. Ellen and Jeff keep it candid, practical, and empowering—peppered with stories, humor, and “tweetable” wisdom.

This summary provides a rich, engaging walkthrough of the full episode’s key themes, insights, and stories, complete with timestamps and speaker attributions, for listeners and doers alike in the home service industry.