← Unemployable with Jeff Dudan
Unemployable with Jeff Dudan
Resilience, Grit & Turning Obstacles Into Opportunities Kyle Maynard Shares His Story #212
01:15:20
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, welcome back, everybody. I'm Jeff Dutton and we're here today on the unemployable podcast. Today's guest is someone who redefines what's possible. Kyle Maynard was born without arms and legs, yet he's climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, competed as a champion wrestler, and inspires audiences worldwide with his unbreakable will. This conversation will uncover the mindset and habits that, that let him conquer every mountain, literal and figurative. Get ready to be challenged and inspired. Here's my conversation with Kyle Maynard today. We are honored to have an incredible guest on Kyle Maynard. Welcome, Kyle.
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B
Hey, thank you so much for having me, Jeff.
- [00:47]
A
Yeah. Excited that you're on. As usual, I, I went deep, dove into your content, both online and also I got a copy of your book. And for those that don't know you, you were born a congenital, with a congenital amputation, which means that you were born without limbs, basically below your elbows and below your knees.
- [01:10]
B
Right. So it's kind of a. It was unknown as to what caused it. The. But it was, you know, the ultrasound technology too was a lot different back then. So my parents, they, you know, it kind of came as a big surprise and I think they had, you know, normal ultrasounds at first and then ended up, you know, realizing things were going to be a lot different. And I remember my grandmother telling my, telling my mom, she said that, you know, if you just look at his face, look at his smile, you'll know that everything will be okay. And that's, you know, I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned later is, was Richard Bandler. He was the founder of Neuro Linguistic Programming, one of the co founders. He said that where the attention goes, the energy flows, you know, so it's, it's like basically, I think for them kind of came as a big surprise, you know, early on. And the, I think the nature of then kind of trying to figure out like how to, how to work with things, I think was, was pretty key. But I think their, their strategy for the most part was to try to keep things just as normal as possible. You know, to not focus on the limitations, to try to focus on the things that I was capable of doing and you know, just from learning how to feed myself to, you know, know, addressed, you know, day to day stuff, it was kind of this like lesson of, of normaly. I think more than anything they tried to like, you know, really instill that in me more than anything else. We just didn't really talk about it. You know, it was one of those things, it was like a Jedi mind trick. They just, you know, didn't really focus on the disability. So it was something that, like, you know, didn't really become, like, a huge deal.
- [03:09]
A
They handled it the way that you would hope that parents would handle it. You know, no hesitation, you know, complete resolve, and really a commitment with your grandparents moving to be near you, to basically. To basically give you that normalcy, whether that be through, you know, helping you with, you know, play street hockey or video games, and really gave you a. A great life in. In terms of exposure and experiences and all of that. And like myself, when we had our kids, I've got three 20. The oldest is 25. I mean, we didn't have a lot of resources at the time, and I. And, you know, they didn't either. But if you wait, if we wait until you can afford to have kids, you'll never have them. So, you know, that's really. I mean, just. Just go ahead and do it. But that was an extra challenge for them at the time because I just remember you talking about how your father was looking at it. He's like, I don't even have a job right now. And he was going to. I think he was getting ready to go back to school. And, you know, their life just changed in the. The way, you know, their perspective of the things that they were going to need to do to give you all of the things that have made you who you are today. So really. And also, too, I think there's a picture of you in the book when you're like, three spitting image of my son. I was just like that. Could you, like, you guys are doppelgangers. My oldest, you and him at that age. So. And you kind of favor each other right now, don't you think, Jen? I actually do. So. So anyway, so you're. You're. You. You were fortunate to be able to have family that was. To be able to move with you and help you through that. There was a question around prosthetics that popped up, and the technology of the day was, you know, it was a little bit unwieldy. It didn't really help you. It was maybe more for appearances than it was for form and function. How did you guys wrestle with. With that decision? And ultimately, what did, you know, what.
- [05:13]
B
Did you do back in the day with the, like, prosthetics? You had, like, a system with, like, hooks and, like, pulleys and then, like, like, straps, and so you kind of, like, move your, like, back and shoulders in different ways. And try to like, open and close these hooks. And for me, you know, for my arms to kind of come at a point to go and, you know, pick up something and grab something. Then it was just kind of natural. And then I put out the prosthetics and I was, you know, it was really difficult to go and do anything. So like, you know, there was these legs too. You know, legs were basically like. There was a buckle to go and collapse the knees. Otherwise they were just kind of like giant stilts. I would just go and use a walker to walk with and kind of lean on the walker. But, you know, know, it was. It. It impaired me way more than it helped. I tried them again when I was a little bit older. It was like eighth grade, but that was the last time I tried them. You know, I kind of like, periodically keep up with stuff. I'm sure that like, Boston Dynamics or something's going to go and make some kind of like, crazy exoskeleton in the future. That would be, you know, fun to like. Oh, for sure. But, you know, I think it's. It's not really something that I've, you know, I mean, I just use a wheelchair to go and get around for the most part. And, you know, it's. I feel fortunate in that way in that regard. I mean, I think that like, when you have a disability, I think it exposes you to a lot of things of like, you know, where like the lack of mobility exists in a lot of different ways, especially in like older buildings and structures too. You know, you go to like a courthouse or something like that now it's like an older building. It just is impossible to kind of navigate or get around or like cobblestone streets, you know, with up going travel through Europe and like, you know, go through some of these, like, older areas with these like, cobblestone roads. It's just a complete nightmare to try to go and get around.
- [07:04]
A
You have described yourself as an athlete driven by competition, and the, the book's fantastic as it talks about, man, like what you did to compete in football and all of that. Can you talk, tell us a little bit about how you approached athletics early in your career and then ultimately how it came to wrestling as being your sport.
- [07:27]
B
I think competition for sure is. Has always been an enormous aspect. Every, you know, like close friend that I've had, I think has been like, you know, highly competitive in some way or some regard. And I think it's, you know, it's that like, spirit and drive. I think that like, you know, Just to better ourselves, to, you know, to. To learn as much as we can, to go and grow in some different kind of way. I think it's. You know, so much of that is. I think that's what excites me more than anything else. You know, I think that, like, the, you know, I think the. The nature of the types of things that I've been drawn to in terms of competition, I think over the years, you know, I think that's kind of changed and evolved. Expanded, for sure, you know, but I think it's. It's pretty universal. And I remember, like, you know, as a kid, making my first tackle in football. Certainly changed my life undoubtedly, you know, and, like, I think it gave me, like, that sense of, like, purpose and contribution. The way that I go and tackle people, I just go and take my helmet and smash it into their legs as hard as I could. I was down on all fours, and so, you know, the running backs were not looking at the ground. They were looking at linebackers and safeties. And that was kind of my advantage in wrestling. It was kind of a similar thing, too, where it was like, you know, I was stronger than a lot of people that I was going up against because of, like, the, you know, weight class. But then there are other things I would go and give up, you know, and obviously, like, you know, reach and things of that nature. And then I think, you know, later on, from jiu jitsu, mma, it was kind of controversial in me competing in a lot of ways, and, um, you know, kind of managed to go and fight through kind of a different thing with that, you know, and experiencing, like, the governmental side of things. Mountain climbing was a completely different, you know, animal. Mountain climbing from an endurance perspective was, you know, was not a, you know, wrestling match is six minutes long. You know, a mountain climb is just weeks of just a, you know, complete suffering and, like. Yeah, but it's also, you know, just beautiful experience and the ability to be able to go and, you know, have that, like, you know, kind of bond through the whole time, too. I mean, I think it's, you know, they're just amazing experiences and from, you know, business perspective and studying, you know, I mean, like, you think about, like, competition in business and, like, different things, you know, I mean, for you, competing for an audience with a podcast, you know, for me, speeches for, you know, large business, a small business, like, studying that nature of competition, too, is, you know, that's one of my favorite things now is, you know, from a hobbyist perspective. And hopefully at some point, I Think, you know, from a career perspective, too, to be able to do more of that. But, you know, the whole history of that and competition in general, I think, is just. It's. It's so deeply ingrained in us as human beings, as who and what we are. Some of my closest friends that I've made over the last few years have been in the Seal teams, you know, and, like, special memories with them and seeing them in places where they were completely, like, you know, broken and defeated in so many different ways, but they found a way to be able to go and push through the other side. And that, to me is like, you know, there's something special inside of that. I think there's something special inside of the human spirit that, like, you know, allows us to be able to, like, you know, get to get to the place where we can test ourselves and, you know, find that, like. Find that point at which we feel as if, you know, we're broken and there's no other way and, like, you know, that we're forced to go and give up, and then we don't. I think that that is, like, fundamentally just a huge part of what it means to be, you know, the human being, uniquely human.
- [11:14]
A
Your mom was a rock in your life. She was an advocate. Um, I think you had said that, you know, your father and you were both probably, you know, she would be the one that would make the phone call and say, hey, we're coming out for the football team, or we're doing those things. How did she react when you immediately went towards collision and combat and extreme sports? Because you went. You went right into the nose tackle position as a sixth grader at probably, what, £60? And you. You went right on that team and started mixing it up in the middle of a defensive line. How did. Did she ever. Was she always a hundred percent supportive of the things that you wanted to do, or was she like, hey, Kyle, you know, maybe, maybe not. Maybe not this right now?
- [12:04]
B
I think there was, you know, I think they had kind of, like, mixed feelings about a lot of things. You know, I think I were to take a couple of examples. I, you know, opened up a CrossFit gym back in, like, 2008, and incidentally, it was right as a market crashed, I think.
- [12:19]
A
Right.
- [12:19]
B
I had my money, like, from, you know, like, the book deal and all that, like, sitting inside of a Fidelity account and lost, you know, a significant amount of it. And I was like, you know, had this massive distrust over, like, other people, you know, managing, like, you know, my money. I was like, okay, now I'm gonna go and invest in this gym. So I went and started. Started the gym, and it was, you know, it was. It was a massive challenge at first. And I remember them, you know, cautioning me, you know. You know, I mean, for me, I was kind of like a bull at a china shop. Like, I was just raring to go. Like, I want. I. I don't. It ended up being like a 3,000square foot building, but I wanted something that was like, you know, much bigger. And they were like, you know, this probably not the right time to go and do it. But then conversely, I was thinking in my head, I was in my mid-20s at the time. I wasn't, you know, sun stage right. So it wasn't really thinking, like, I think, in terms of, like a, you know, sound investor. I think I was just, you know, I just so wanted the experience of having, like, the gym, and I was so ready for that, like, entrepreneurial side of my journey. The. And I remember, like, the. The building that I wanted to go and get, I mean, it was just a massive, massive overhead. I was gung ho on trying to, you know, make it happen and kind of, you know, realized too, that, like, I mean, I could go and get a deal on that because the market collapsed and it was in a developing area, and I knew that the area was going to go and bounce back, and if I could go and, like, make it last long enough, then it would go and work. I kind of ended up getting what I was looking for in the end, if that makes sense, you know, And I remember them, you know, as an alternative example. I mean, the same thing happened when I was getting into mma, when I was getting into mountain climbing, when I was doing a lot of different things where they were very cautious of, like, yeah, you probably. You don't need to be doing that. And I would stubbornly either listen to them in some ways or some regards or just go about doing it myself. And, you know, the. The that gym experience, I think more than anything, I think it, you know, definitely taught me that, like, nature of delayed gratification and seeing something kind of like, you know, coming to life over. Over a period of time, as opposed to, like, you know, the petulant side that wanted it, you know, right away. But, yeah, I think it's. There was a lot of that conflict growing up, you know, was like, you know, my mom's perspective was, why can't you be more like your sisters? You know, why can't you be more like, you know, Less like cautious, associated with, yeah, whatever it was that you're doing, you know, and for me it was always about the risk.
- [14:57]
A
The risk profile of a 20, mid 20 year old does not need to be the same as a 55 year old person. I mean, you shouldn't have the same risk profile. If you're going to be an entrepreneur, you might as well go ahead and get the first, you know, success or failure out of the way and jump into it. You're not going to learn it until you're doing something without a net. And when you put a good part of what you've got into a deal, as long as you're committed to see it through to the end, then generally you're going to be okay. But I was coaching somebody over the weekend and I said, hey, you know, because the guy's had a lot of deals and you know, he hasn't really, probably hasn't gotten to where he wants to get. And I said, you know, most deals are bad deals, but it's not for why you think. It's, it's, there's nothing wrong with the business plan. Uh, if, if you're willing to commit to it, it's probably gonna work out. As long as you're willing to stick with it long enough and you're willing to look at the numbers and make the decisions you need to make that make sense along the way. But most deals are bad deals because there's a misalignment with the people that are involved. And if you get the wrong partners in a deal and they're not, you know, they're, there's a, you know, they're expecting you to do something and, or you're expecting them to do something, or people aren't as committed as you, then that's where generally business deals can go bad. So kudos to you.
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B
No, for sure.
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A
I mean, is that still in business? Are you still in business with that thing?
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B
I ended up selling it to the, the one of the general managers who managed it through the whole Covid period and did phenomenally awesome, you know, was able to keep it afloat and they, you know, have since migrated into a new space and very recently, so I've yet to see it. But the, you know, I think the, the unexpected benefit too was the fact of, like you said, I think it's, you know, the, the journey with the people that you're, that you're experiencing something with undoubtedly is fun, you know, to go and just be a part of other people's lives and kind of see you know, what their experiences are and you know, different kinds of ways. Right.
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A
And you're talking about the members or your partners?
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B
Both, I think, you know, it was, you know, to see like just the, you know, people meeting, falling in love, you know, the babies that were born from the gym that wouldn't have been born, you know, if, if we hadn't done it. You know, it was training based, you know, and performance based. Right. I wanted to, I wanted to coach. And ironically too, I think another mistake in my 20s that I made was, you know, we were like the 10th or 12th CrossFit gym, I think, in, in Atlanta. And the, the first CrossFit gym that I saw was CrossFit Atlanta. Dan McDougald was the, the owner of that box and he was a lawyer. And you know, it was very early days of CrossFit. I just heard about it, just found out about it. And I remember like going down to go and see his location and seeing, you know, it was like people around my age that were, you know, kind of hungry young professionals that were flipping tires and like, you know, beating them with sledgehammers and like, you know, the pull up bars and just the kind of like the. It was, you know, it was like a clean, kind of like more sterile environment. I went in a few other boxes that weren't as much. So it was, you know, I mean, this is kind of the early days. It was, you know, very like very Spartan, you know, very kind of like a, you know, rugged kind of like mentality. And it was a minimalist, you know, and then went to the suburbs and was advised that like, you know, being in the suburbs, you know, you needed to have a little bit of a different environment. You needed to go and kind of build things out. You needed to go and make it kind of nice and, and pretty and so did that and spent a lot of money. Probably did. Exactly. Yeah. People that just wanted all the, all the like the Frou Frou stuff. Yeah.
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A
I didn't want it to use it. They'll never use it.
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B
You could put it and had no idea to read it.
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A
And you never even exactly thing in.
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B
It was like when I, when I was there and like realized. Yeah, I remember like thinking kind of like eventually kind of like came to the realization that like, like the meaning of the whole like, you know, location, location, location, real estate and it being a, you know, a suburban environment, I was like, man, I just, I really screwed up. And you know, it was, you know, this is not what I was looking for. I think If I were to go into it again, then I think my dream location would probably just be like just a roll up garage where people, you know, there's just a paint can on the ground where somebody goes, you know, they throw in their monthly dues and like, yeah, you know, if there's an AR thing, you know, it's like pin a sticky note on the wall or something, right. You know, and have the courage to go and write your name on it.
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A
Get some racks and get some sleds and get some Astroturf down and, you know, some just have at it. Now a lot of the attention that you got early on was related to wrestling. Can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with wrestling and the people that you met along the way and ultimately what that has meant to you?
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B
Yeah, it was initially so I was, I was an obsessive like sports fan growing up, you know, and whether it was, I think probably my biggest things. I was very into baseball. Before he moved down to Atlanta, it kind of remained that way, but I think then became very interested in basketball when I came down and football. I got to had like a Fisher Price basketball hoop in my room and I just go and shoot basketball and watch the Hawks all day. And there was also the, you know, became a huge Falcons fan. I got invited to go to the locker room and go and, you know, meet the guys and you know, going from playing, you know, nose guard to going in to like, you know, meet the, you know, the players and the Falcons. And I got a game ball from Jamal Anderson, Ray Buchanan. It was the, like year before they won the super bowl and it was kind of a big turning point for them.
- [21:07]
A
I'm interested about the jiu jitsu and are there techniques I've grappled just a teeny little bit. So are you, where are you most comfortable in jiu jitsu? What do you, what do you like to do? You like to fight from your back or like, how do you go about it?
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B
Yeah, I mean I, I fell in love with it. You know, it was. I got choked out by a girl that was around a 100, 110 pounds and like saw her choke somebody that was, you know, your size or even a little bit bigger the next day. And I was like, oh my God. Like, I just, I fell in love with it. I had to learn it. So the, I ended up moving, like I said, out to, to California to focus on, you know, training at the, you know, it was one of the top training centers in the world. I just gotten My fourth stripe on my blue belt. So it goes white belt, blue belt, purple belt, brown belt, black belt, you know, so it was almost a purple belt. And thinking that, like, that was going to come around the corner. And I went out there and didn't get my purple vault, I think for like a year and a half, two years or something like that after. And kind of very quickly learned too, that, like, I think, you know, like, probably more than anything, my. Yeah, my instructor, Professor Galvao, Andre Galvao, he's, you know, multi time world champion, like, basically like the LeBron James of the sport. And the, you know, I think he would agree that I was probably on that, like, purple belt level. But I think from like, a psychological perspective, I think he, you know, ended up, you know, holding me back and, you know, kept me at that, you know, spot. But it kind of made me hungry more than anything else. I think it just, you know, was like the, like the hunger and desire to, you know, when a black belt would come in the room, like a visiting black belt, you know, then, like, I'd want to go and bring it to him, you know, so the. But yeah, I do a lot of different things from, you know, like, from a guard position and playing on my back, you know, like a half guard, kind of just like locking down and isolating one leg and then the end up going for a lot of, like, arm chokes, basically. It was kind of like the bread butter there, like guillotine kind of things, and then kind of like advanced into, like, different leg locks and that kind of stuff. And fought in the world championships twice, ended up falling short and not placing and kind of realized that it was just time to, you know, move on and focus on other things. And. And that's basically what led me into the, you know, Mount Marion. So the. Ed had climbed Kilimanjaro prior to. Prior to coming out there, but the, the Akago climb was kind of following the, like, failure of the jiu Jitsu world championships and thinking, like, you know, they just kind of need to do some other challenge. It ended up being by far, I think that, you know, the hardest physical thing that I ever experienced at that point.
- [24:20]
A
How technical is Kilimanjaro? Is it just endurance? And is it. Is there a lot of technicality to it?
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B
Mostly endurance. The. And it was the technicality for me at least came. We had one day. It was called the Western Breach. So it was about halfway through, like, our initial schedule, and I was already beat up worse than I thought that I would be. And we Ended up deciding to just go, like, you know, take like, a. Just a straight up path up the. The western side of the mountain. And the. It was, you know, kind of one brutal day, but then was able to cut off, like, four or five days of, like, the total trip time. Okay. And I think was a huge aspect of what ended up helping a summit. But the, you know, that. That morning, I mean, waking up and, like, starting out, like, you know, it was my first ever experience climbing on ice and getting to having to fight through the, you know, just the cold and the ice and, like, the dark and, like, you know, hearing boulders falling in different directions. It was in that whole, you know, the day was 12 hours, and I remember we were filming it for ESPN and got to, like, the. The tent that night in the Western Breach where we camped. And my buddy Takashi, who was filming it, yeah, he was like, well, they tell me, like, you know, what'd you learn? I don't remember exactly what it was that I said, but I just remember, like, you know, like, the way that he said it, whatever it was, it was. It just broke. I just immediately just kind of started to cry, and I was like, you know, just this heavy overload of, you know, feeling an emotion of, you know, everything that it took to go and get there to that point. And the. You know. But I knew at that point, too. I think when we hit the western breach, we're 900ft from the summit. So there's, you know, where I first started climbing was Stone Mountain in Atlanta. So it's 30 minutes away from where I live, United States. Stone Mountain is, you know, when I first started climbing was a. Was a tough climb for sure. But I think the, you know, I knew if I was only one more Stone Mountain away that there was going to have to be an avalanche or meteor strike or something that's going to keep me from. From reaching the summit.
- [27:06]
A
So what was behind the impression?
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B
It was. I know. I think when you go through, like, a, you know, that, like. Like a great, like, challenge or feat or battle of some sort, right? And then, like, you, like, you get to the other side of it, you know, it's just like, whoa, there's.
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A
At that point, did you know you were gonna summit?
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B
Oh, yeah. It was, like, very, like, I knew for sure. It was undoubtedly, like there was, you know, there was anything that was going to keep us from reaching the summit at that point, but it was getting there to that point. I think I didn't know if I was going to live through the day kind of thing. You know, it was one of those like touch and go kind of points where it was literally like the, you know, I felt very much like. And it was a, it was a weird thing too because I, you know, I mean when I say like live through the day, I was like, if I can't make it, like, where do we go? Like, going down might be more dangerous than continuing to go up, but if I can't continue to go up, like, you know, like, what do we do? So it was this, you know, a brutal feeling of like, you know, how do we, how do we make this work? And the, you know, it was so I think but, you know, just decided to continue to go and power through and wasn't until Akankagua I think that I had that kind of realization. It was um, you know, very similar kind of circumstance and not quite as like vertical nicey and dangerous. When I realized this, I was, it was more of like a long kind of like traverse day. But it was like, you know, the realization of I don't know if I physically can or can't achieve what it is that I need to go and achieve today. So I like literally any wasted calorie thought of like calories in, calories out in my head that I like literally can't focus on. I can't devote a single thought towards something that's going to like, be even contemplative if I'm going to succeed or if I'm going to fail, if that makes sense. You know, it's like, what's the point, right? Like you're there to go and find out, like, if you can't actually go and do it. And it's like, you know, just to go and think of like, I can't devote a single thought towards like whether or not this is going to go and work. I just have to, you know, any thought that like comes into my head as to whether or not that's going to be the case, I just literally have to go and like block it out and kind of continue to go and, you know, focus on what I need to do.
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A
What inspires you to have that kind of determination faced with a climb like that?
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B
I think it's, I think it's for sure you know, the experiences and the, you know, and the memories and all that that comes, you know, with it. I think it's the feeling of the experience itself. I think it's, you know, something that's just written encoded inside of our DNA. I think for me especially, I think just a unique Aspect of like a kind of a choice. I think I've, you know, I think that I've just always had inside me, you know, that like, the choice being that there wasn't really a choice. The choice being that, like, you know, whatever it was I was doing, I would just try to go and do and take on to, you know, the fullest extent that I could in different kinds of ways. Whether that was, you know, video games or. Or other stuff, you know, and surrounding myself with other people that kind of have that same mentality. Some of them, you know, best friends growing up and like, friends who have been with me on those climbs, dude. Like the. And we would go and have like, you know, video game plan parties in their basement, you know, but they were just, you know, like Halo and stuff like that, you know, and like, they're ruthless and like, really, really good and like, you know, but I was kind of like low man in the totem pole with them. But, like, just being in, like, I got really good and the, you know, then I would go and play with like, you know, my buddies in the wrestling team and just absolutely merc and destroy everybody. I was like, you know, realized that, like, just there's, you know, just the varying different, like, levels of things, you know, that are associated with it, you know, whatever it is that we're. That we're doing. Yeah, I think that's just surrounding myself with those people, I think very like, you know. You know, there's those kind of moments where you go and look around the room and just, you know, awe and wonder of, you know, the. The environment itself. I think those are like, very, very special moments.
- [31:49]
A
Did you have groups of climbers that you trained with and that you attended these summits with? Was it the same group? Or did you kind of throw in with a. With an expedition that was going up?
- [32:03]
B
So the. I was initially. It was so the kind of the way that ended up working out. My initial gym manager, Ben, connected me to another friend, a guy named Blake, who went to college with a guy named Dan. Dan ended up becoming one of my best friends later on and like, you know, is just taught me tremendous about. About life. I mean, you mentioned the hero's journey. Like, that's been a huge, huge aspect of so many different things of what's, you know, interested me. And Dan was one of the first ones that like, taught me what that, like, actually like, meant, you know, and like, the history of that and, you know, Joseph Campbell. And it was very, very deep into the study of all of those different things. So it was when I met Dan. He just, like, had this vision of climbing a mountain and wanted to go and invite me to come along and do it with him. And he just. We had dinner together and he kind of pitched the idea and then played this song from. It was the song time from the movie Inception. And he was like, if we do this climb, we can go and, like, put like, a song, you know, like, do a video to this song. I was like, I'm in. Like, so in.
- [33:51]
A
That's all it took.
- [33:52]
B
All it took. All right. Well, I was just 100%, like, so locked in at that point. And the. But then it was, you know, the whole journey to, like, figure out how to, like, make it work. And we went, you know, sought out, you know, a bunch of different people and options and different things of, you know, how we're going to go and try to make it work. You know, from the. There was, you know, the fundraising aspect of things to like, the, you know, just the. The gear and equipment, the team itself.
- [34:23]
A
Right. I saw a Nike commercial out there that must have been filmed in process.
- [34:30]
B
Yeah, it was. That was actually following to the Aconcagua climb was that, by the way. So it's. It's on the border of Argentina and Chile, like northern Argentina and north kind of northern Chile. But it literally kind of borders the two. And the. It's in this, like, the Mendoza reason region of Argentina, which is home to the Malbec grape of French. It's originally like a French wine grape that was kind of like a trash, like, wine grape that they ended up bringing to Argentina and then Ren planting it and like, growing it there in that environment and it thrived. And my favorite wine by far and from that region and the, you know, like, so like just steaks and wine and kind of just ridiculous, like, experiences. The people there were incredible, too, in so many different ways. You know, just very, like, open, like, welcoming kind of before we were even, like, famous in the area. But after we did the climb and came down, there was, you know, significant, like, press conference and interviews and, like, kind of became like, instantly famous in the. In the area. Like, which was not something I expected or anticipated. It was just like a kind of a. Yeah. Just a cool, like, side thing that happened as a consequence of, you know, doing it and succeeding.
- [35:58]
A
You've said that your early life was both you and your family had a pursuit of normalcy for you, but yet you've done so many things in your life that are extraordinary. So you failed in that Regard in terms of normal, because you've just, I mean, you. You've done so many incredible things. I mean, and so, you know, are you.
- [36:22]
B
It's still kind of, you know, it's.
- [36:23]
A
You overachieved.
- [36:25]
B
I think it's also. What's interesting, though, is to hear you say that the, you know, there's. I think the, like, the normalcy aspect of things, for sure, was so, like, deeply instilled and ingrained. I think that. So when, like, you know, there was media that came around, I think when I was sixth grade, playing football and, you know, it was before even wrestling and all that, like, I was on the news and the, you know, got to go and do like a live interview on cnn and it just was a very, like, you know, kind of always felt to some extent, like out of place and unnatural in a lot of ways. I think the. So, you know, it's. It's funny to hear you say that, and I appreciate that, but in a lot of ways, too, it's like. I think there was a serious aspect of it, too. You know, it's. I think a lot of times when you go and, you know, you experience like, you know, you experience something like, extraordinary and a lot of people, it'll change them. And I think the, I think the benefit, you know, of what I've gotten to go and experience, for sure, there was, you know, life experience associated with things, but I think there was, you know, I was already surrounded by people that were incredible and extraordinary in so many different ways.
- [38:11]
A
And we're just programmable machines. Right. So what are. What are the parameters by which we're limited? Well, number one, we're limited by what we know and what we've been exposed to. So, you know, for example, the podcast to me has revitalized that. I'm 55 years old. My curiosity in people. I've spent my entire life building businesses, and it's been great. I've had experiences and met people and gone places that I would have never been able to. You know, I'm going to a Christmas party this weekend in Washington, D.C. and I have no business being in the room where I'm going. But you know what? I'm going and I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable going there. The wife, on the other hand. But, you know, we'll. It'll be. It'll be amazing because the. The people that. That we know and that we.
- [38:58]
B
We.
- [38:59]
A
We will know is going to be incredible. So we're. We have parameters based upon what we know. Then the other Thing which is applies directly to you is, you know, our will is an exhaustible resource. So like we, you know, some people find a way to have a battery that just allows them to just push, push, push, push, push all the way through. And I'm always, you know, walking into this conversation. What I walked into the room with is I really wanted to understand how and why you were, you are able to find the, you know, what, what fuels your passion to continue over and over again to do great things and do, do things that most people would never attempt to do. I have to, I googled Kilimanjaro and said, you know, after spending time with you yesterday on my own doing research, I said, why in the world that's not a technical climb. I could do that. And you know, so the question is, is why wouldn't I do that? And I've got to, I've got to have a good answer for that, to pursue that with everything that you've had and everything that you've, you've learned and all the exploration that you've done of pushing yourself and inside of your purpose and your passion. And, and I like the reason that you gave is to, you know, because, because you've done it, you've done it, you've done it with people. You've got stories, you've got connection. You know, that's a good enough reason in and of itself for doing something outside of the things that you normally talk about. What are some of the coolest experiences that you've had or the coolest people that you've met? I, I saw one thing where you on the Tim Ferriss television show and you know, he referenced that he met you in Napa drinking wine, you know, a few months and I'. Well, you know what, in Napa drinking wine with Tim Ferriss, like, I would put that down as like cool. Something that I think would be very interesting to do. Certainly from his perspective and all the, the way he, he takes his take on the world, what are some of the things that you don't talk about a lot that would be a really cool experience or cool people that you've spent time with?
- [41:05]
B
I would. It's big. I mean, the Jordan Peterson chasing him down to go and shake his hand was pretty big. I was telling my roommate Timmy about he's an amazing character himself, Disney imagineer and like, you know, just this crazy mad scientist, you know, but like very like just amazing in so many ways and brilliant. But the, you know, I was telling him about like meeting Schwarzenegger and Like, it was after. It was at the Arnold Classic. I went there to go, and I was involved in like, powerlifting at that time. So I did like a 360 pound competition press, which is kind of my most in like, competition at that point, and then went and signed up for it. Like, I'd never before. I never really even heard. I mean, I'd heard of Jiu Jitsu, I'd seen like some Gracie videos, but I'd never really been exposed to it. I was just a wrestler and I signed up for a tournament and they.
- [41:59]
A
Say like a Gracie Blue belt is equal to most places black belts.
- [42:03]
B
Yeah, it was like. And I think that, like, you know, the wrestling background helped me with that, but like, you know, it was. And obviously the disability, you know, I mean, obviously I think that like, the nature of the disability, like, just, you know, gives people like, you know, it's a instant, like, you know, reason to connect. I think that these experiences would have been like, obviously cool experiences, you know, without the disability. But I think with the disability then it's, you know, gives people kind of a different, like, you know, different window to connect. But I remember like, yeah, I had never been exposed to Jiu Jitsu and ended up like going and like competing in this tournament. And then, you know, I was winning in points. Like, I got a three hour lesson from a guy named Steve Maxwell, which was like an early American black belt, you know, and then later kind of found out like, you know, him being a, you know, just freaking, like, absolute legend and like, but like, nobody, you know, really heard of him outside of the jitsu community. And I ended up getting choked out and I lost the match. But there was a standing ovation. It was like, you know, a few weeks, maybe months later that I came home and like, I was going to school ega. And that's when I went and got invited into the hardcore gym and, you know, was choked out by the girl that I mentioned. But then, like, I was around these like, other people in the, in the gym that were like, you know, Forrest Griffin, who was like a UFC champion and I was training with him and he was, you know, he was like on the Ultimate Fighter show at the time and ended up winning the season and with this like, epic, like, you know, fight with Stefan Bonner, you know, but I've, like, you know, I've sat with, you know, Forrest and, you know, the corner of his fights, I was there, you know, 30, 20, 25, 30ft from the cage when he won the world, you know, when he Won the UFC belt. I was, you know, sitting in the, you know, locker room with Randy Couture before he went and walked out to, you know, fight Veto Belfort. And I was 18 years old. You know, I was like, you know, just. It was just such a, like, kind of like, surreal, kind of like wild experience in so many different ways. The Tim ferriss thing, absolutely 100 was like, you know, I got invited to. I just heard about him doing this book launch seminar and, you know, he's called it opening the kimono and, like, just showed like, you know, how they go and like, launch products in different kinds of ways. And I was like, you know, just sent his assistant an email and was like, hey, this is my background. Like, you know, would you be open to. To me coming in and, you know, checking it out? And he, you know, said that he was like, yeah, you know, and just showed up and, like, befriended him. But, you know, at the conference, met so many other amazing people and, you know, it was. But I think a lot of those too, for sure. It was like the Jim Carrey yes man movie, you know, where it's like, you just, you know, it's kind of, you know, there's some truth of that, right? Like, it's just you gotta kind of just say yes to these kind of different kinds of things.
- [45:16]
A
And so the answer should always be yes. It should always be yes. Unless you can find a good reason.
- [45:20]
B
For it for sure, right? So you can find a good reason not to. But there's also that too. You know, I think it's as on the counterpoint, though. It's, you know, things that you say no to might be a lot of times more important than, like, the things that you say yes to. It kind of depends on, you know, it's like, if you have the ability to be able to go in, you know, say no to things. I think that, like. But it's. I think that balance, right? I think it's, you know, the nature of, like, you said, like, you know, with the normalcy comment, like, it's life being anything but, you know, that didn't happen as a consequence. I think of, you know, not agreeing to, you know, go and, you know, take on, you know, different things and different challenges, having no idea what, like, would, you know, lay in weight.
- [46:11]
A
Well, we can't let fearfulness be a reason that we say no to something or worthiness.
- [46:18]
B
Right?
- [46:18]
A
We are worthy.
- [46:19]
B
We.
- [46:20]
A
We do not need to be fearful. And.
- [46:24]
B
And everybody is, in their own way. Like, every single person that's listening to this, you know, it's like, to different extents and different degrees, you know, is, like, has that, like, thing inside of them that is, like, uniquely them. I think that is, you know, like, that, like, piece of the essence of the soul is, you know, I think that's what we carry with us, the people that go and rub off on us in different ways. Like, I was thinking that recently, like, you know, with my family and friends, like, you know, what were the, like, the biggest lessons that they taught me? You know, I can't name them, like, in the same way that I could name the, like, lessons that, like, Jordan Peterson taught me, you know, but my mom, for instance, you know, she was just like. Her mentality is try to be friends with everybody because you never know when you're going to need it. Yeah. You know, and, like, her, you know, like, whether it was like the, you know, the. The bad kids, the good kids, you know, the jocks, the nerds, like, you know, you never know who'd, like, you're getting. You're going to need as a friend. So it's, you know, you may as well, like, you know, befriend him. She also was, you know, in terms of wrestling, you know, her mentality was like, you know, put the guy in enough pain on the mat that he no longer wants to be on the mat with you. You know, my dad was much more of, like, just, like, finesse. And it's, I think, the nature of, you know, those kind of those things that, like, you know, like, if I were to go and think about, like, the specifics of, like, the lessons that they taught me, I think it's very different than, like, just, like, the experience of them as, you know, as human beings and being around him and the fact that I feel, you know, very fortunate that, you know, I've had the family that I've had for sure. And it's, you know, it's. It's. It's also, you know, but that balance, too, right? Like, their. Their whole thing was, you know, that, like, normalcy and then being in other environments where I'm in a very, you know, a normal state with, like, you know, people that I never would have dreamed that I would have, you know, I would have gotten them to meet and befriend.
- [48:40]
A
You said something. You said, we are all disabled in some way. Yours are just more visible. And, you know, I took that quote and I thought it was really insightful because we all struggle with things mentally. There's people that don't have physical challenges, like, you Were born with that struggle, underperform for different ways, don't do all the things that they dream that they might want to do. When you think about disabilities, and I don't know, to the extent that you advocate for disabled people, are there any policies that you think need to be changed or considered out there for any types of disabilities that people have today?
- [49:32]
B
Yeah, I think, for sure. I mean, I think there's always that. I think it's. Yeah. You know, accessibility, I think, is, you know, we take for granted the fact that, like, you know, the. Everything that we have, I think, in America has really led the way in a lot of accessibility. You know, just. I remember my mom, you know, fighting to get the, like, there's a curb cut, you know, outside of the neighborhood, so that my, you know, I could, you know, ride my chair to, you know, ride my chair to school instead of being. Relying on somebody to take me back and forth. And, you know, that was, you know, it was just that curb cut was, you know, life changing. The amount of independence that it was able to go and give me, you know, I think it's. I think the, you know, the frustrating difference that I go and experience is just like, you know, sometimes or, you know, a lot of it can be met with, like, incessant, like, whiny, complainy kind of, like, vibes, if that makes sense, I think, to go in, you know, try to do our best to, like, yeah, squeaky wheel gets the grease. But, like, also try to avoid, like, avoid that. You know, it's. I. I think the world would be a much better place if we literally just did away with political parties. Imagine that. Imagine if you actually had to literally, like, pay attention to what somebody, like, said to vote. You know, if there wasn't a Republican or Democrat party, like, you know, just that one change, you would literally have to, like, you'd have to, like, actually pay attention to what somebody says instead of just going to the voting machine and saying, I'm a part of this tribe and I'm going to click this button, right? And, you know, because it's like, you know, this is generally like a, you know, issue of the left, right, that, like, accessibility becomes a factor generally associated with that, you know, but, like, like, you know, to the degree that, like, that makes sense to me, it's, you know, so it's always kind of plagued me with, like, different, like, things associated with politics in general. It's like there's just so many better ways to go and do things. And yet why do we go and Operate the way that we go and do, and, like, it just doesn't, you know, never really added up. And I think, you know, it's. I think as I've gotten older, I've kind of come to accept the fact that, like, you know, there's just a bunch of things in the world that operate the way that they do that I don't necessarily understand them, and, like, that's okay, you know, But I think that, like, you know, there's extraordinarily more efficient, like, you know, solutions in so many different ways. But a lot of times you don't necessarily know until, like, you. You get there and try it out. You know, it's. And it sometimes do, especially with people with disabilities. There's, like, you know, just, I think, the stretching, the limits of, like, you know, the individual's capacity, you know, trying different kinds of things. You know, it's. I think that there has to be that, like, aspect of reflection, you know, for people. You know, is it, like, are you yourself, like, doing, like, all that you can to, like, you know, experience whatever place it is you want to go and experience, you know, like, what is the. The hold up there? My. My guide, Kevin, and my mountain guide, he. One of the reasons that we worked with him is that he had, like, extensive, like, experience, like, climbing with people with disabilities. He had been the base camp manager for Eric Weinmeyer, who was the first line climber to summit Everest and did all seven summits. It was incredible. He had led a team of blind climbers up Kilimanjaro, and he had also led somebody that did it on a bike and literally hand creek bike, and, you know, certain segments and sections, they would go and lay down, you know, boards and plates, and he would roll over the, you know, bike and, you know, the gravel and the scree going up this, you know, massively vertical, like, stuff. I, you know, have a hard time fathoming, like, how he actually pulled it off and did it. Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty nuts. So, you know, there are people out there, obviously, that are, you know, that are attempting to go and take things to those levels to go and figure out in terms of accessibility. So then somebody on the other side, you know, that just wants to, like, take kind of a victim role and complain about something that's, you know, just to go and get something done. It's. Have a hard time having compassion for that. But, yeah, I mean, you know, it's.
- [55:05]
A
It's, you know, obstacles make us stronger. And when there's a crisis and you really want to get something done, then you find a way relatively quickly to get things done.
- [55:18]
B
Done.
- [55:19]
A
And.
- [55:20]
B
Yeah, yeah, no, it's like, like that's what we said, you know, energy goes, you know, the attention, attention flows where the energy goes, you know, and, and sometimes it takes those, those things to go and have people like, you know, have a sense of, you know, that get up and go factor other things. You know, it's easier for people to just kind of sit back and, you know, hope that. Hope things go well. You know, the nature of that quote too. Like you said, you know, the reason for that in the book is the fact that like every single person has a disability. Everybody does. You know, there's a host of range of different things in so many different ways that would be, you know, or just everybody has their own individual strengths and weaknesses and like, you know, inner different, you know, challenges and all kinds of stuff associated with, you know, with being a human being.
- [56:19]
A
Yeah.
- [56:20]
B
Whether it's being a, you know, son or daughter or parent or grandparent or coach, mentor, boss, employee, et cetera, you know, wherever somebody fits in. You know, I mean, there's, there's strengths and weaknesses issue with all of that. I think it's. And just the think having the awareness for people to go and identify what those things are. For sure.
- [56:48]
A
Yeah.
- [56:48]
B
I think is a significant factor, you know, and like I said, you know, in the nature of you having these conversations with people too, I think that's like, you know, it's just such a gift be able to go and see like, where something goes, you know, and see kind of like inside some of these kind of unique, like their soul, their psyche, and be able to go and share it with others.
- [57:11]
A
Yeah, it's a blessing. It is. You've had a, A great speaking career, at least from what I can tell. I've watched several of your clips online. Very motivational, excellent speaker. Who do you speak to and how do those opportunities come up for you? And is that something that you're doing a lot of right now?
- [57:37]
B
I think it's. Yeah. So it's over the years. So it's. When I, when I first started, you know, went through like a, you know, massive, like, different kind of like, you know, shift and change associated with, you know, early on to present day, quite ironically. So it was when the book first came out, you know, I was like, literally went from overnight being like a college student to then New York Times bestselling author with, you know, the day Oprah said, like, this is an inspirational Book it hit number one on Amazon. And then all of a sudden I was like, you know, speaking all these different groups all over the, you know, over the country and some international.
- [58:27]
A
And for the audience, the name of the book is no Excuses.
- [58:31]
B
No Excuses. And the. So it was, you know, there was just a huge, huge range. It was, you know, from like basically like, yeah, elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, colleges, up to like Fortune 500 companies to you know, different like, you know, military bases to like, you know, special forces build more range gamut, like literally like everything and sports teams to like random events. It was, you know, kind of every single group and still something I do, you know, pretty consistently now. And I've kind of like focused I think a bit more on like the nature of the. I think that the future aspects of, you know, the, the speaking for me in a lot of ways are going to be on, you know, a lot more hopefully like outcome oriented. I think that's the goal more than anything else is like seeing, like seeing people actually like take and produce and create something. And the. I think that's.
- [59:59]
A
So maybe more towards a master class or something like that. Something that people can take your motivation and. And have a method to turn it into something for them.
- [60:12]
B
Exactly. Yeah. I think that, you know, it's. I think we get like. I think there's an aspect of, you know, the best way to put this but like limitation associated with like growth. Right. If you're doing something where you're not necessarily growing, then yeah, you might be doing that for a multitude of different reasons. Oh, you know, but I think it's, you know, for me, I think that like the speaking in general, you know, it's kind of hit like, you know, critical mass of, you know, kind of kind of share my story and different things over the years. But I think that, you know, focusing more on things that are going to go and kind of push me to grow, I think are going to be. That's the. That's significantly more of the goal coming up, I think.
- [61:16]
A
Yeah. I think some of business like you've got to find like your. Through a. Through line that's authentic to you. And then once you find that through line, you got to create your content and your stories around it and then you've got to find the audience that needs it. Obviously the book, the. The content that's available, your life, your story, your journey in and of itself is. Is motivational. Now how did that manif. So. Okay, well, I can tell you how it manifested. I mean, I, I go I go to a trainer Monday. Monday morning. So I was in there at 6am this morning, and I know that I was not working that hard, and I was thinking about talking to you today, and I was thinking about the, you know, what I was gonna ask you and looking forward to it and all that. And I caught myself in the mirror and I'm like. And this is how hard you're working. Like, you were. You know, I was like. I was such. I was phoning it in, man, and I was. And, you know, I just flipped the switch and I'm like, well, you know, I know how Kyle would approach this workout. Like, he, like, he would be getting after it right now. And I did, you know, so, I mean, in that little moment inside of that, I was, you know, you. Because what do we do? We feel sorry for ourselves. Oh, I. I should. You know, I'm tired of this or that or I got this much. You know, and your mind's everywhere, but where it needs to be is focusing intently on exactly what it is that you've decided that you need to do. So I know that with.
- [62:45]
B
Yeah. For that, you know, it's like you. You know, when you're there for a purpose and it's like, if you're going to go and take the time to like, yeah, go do the workout, then, yeah, you may as well, like, you're there anyway. You're there.
- [62:59]
A
Yeah.
- [62:59]
B
So it's. But at the. Yeah. I mean, I for sure don't want to give people that, like, impression that, like, I don't have that, like, you know, like, similar struggles all the time with different things associated with, like, that kind of stuff. You know, it's. There's seasons associated with stuff, for sure.
- [63:16]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [63:17]
B
It's. You know, it's the. I. I thought that like, when I opened the gym that somehow that was gonna, like, cure the, like, resistance to, like, you know, to train, you know, every day or twice a day or whatever. Right. And then all of a sudden it was like, whoa. Anything. You know, that is the complete opposite. It was, you know, like, all of a sudden I remember, like, you know, I'd be mid workout, you know, and someone would want to, like, come up and, like, talk about their membership or something. I was just like, not the time, you know, but it was. It was just. It was funny to see, like, definitely had a, you know, different effect. There's always those unintended consequences associated with different things.
- [64:08]
A
Right.
- [64:09]
B
You know, it's. That's just the nature of life, I suppose. But the. Yeah. It's you know, I mean for sure that's path and direction. The you know, like you look at like a stock market, you know, it goes, goes up, it goes down. Yeah. But like long term trending up into the right. So it's. Yeah, I think life kind of does the, the same thing a lot of different ways. I think if we have our like, you know, eyes set in that direction but we don't necessarily know it's going to be around the corner, you know.
- [64:44]
A
What'S next for you?
- [64:50]
B
I've got like few things lined up between now and Christmas in terms of work related stuff. My roommate Timmy that I mentioned is a. Like I said, he's a Disney Imagineer, former Disney imagineer and now is. He's got a, a new contract potentially to go and build an escape room. One of the largest escape room companies, if not the largest escape room company in the world contracted him to go and build one up actually very close to you so up like Charlotte area and the. So I think I've never built anything before. I think it would be cool to like actually participate and you know like physically building something so you. That's a potential thing that's kind of on the radar next year. We talked about potentially doing Mount Fuji I think in, in August. So it's you know, climb in Japan there's. Which wouldn't necessarily be like, you know, like a Kilimanjaro climb. I think it's you know, significantly more of like a people go there. It's like a spiritual experience, you know.
- [66:06]
A
Right.
- [66:06]
B
I've got a cousin that was Thanksgiving was talking about he just got back from doing Machu Picchu. I think that would be cool to see. And you know, different friends I mentioned, you know, buddies that were former seals that are now, you know, kind of building their own different, like different experiences where they're going to go and you know, one down in Florida and the other in Virginia Beach. But the. Their plan is to. They've got like a you know, shooting ranges and survival kind of like experiences and like, you know, teaching different stuff of you know, you know, range related stuff, you know, house entry stuff, combatives, you know, hunting, gathering, forging kind of different stuff. You know. So they've got, you know, very cool people around them in different ways to you know, go and help and support. So I think, you know, I think that'd be fun. Yeah, it's you know the, yeah there's, I think that's you know, kind of the, the fluidity of being able to just Experience things as they come, I think is kind of, you know, kind of where I'm at currently. Not necessarily knowing what things are going to, you know, bring on the other side. But I think that's, you know, I think before, especially when I was younger, I was always like, dead set on, you know, thinking of, okay, like, this chunk of time, you know, to go and do this or that or whatever. Whether it was gym, jiu jitsu, other stuff where it was like, you know, just kind of dialed in and detailed in terms of like, you know, like a segmented like, chunk of time. Like I knew in Jiu jitsu to compete for the world Championships, you know, age was going to be a significant factor. So the, you know, being in my late 20s, I was old by comparison to a lot of other people that were, you know, that were there. And, you know, then, you know, kind of when I crept into my 30s, I was like, okay, well, you know, it's. It's probably all she wrote for, like, competing at, you know, like in that age bracket for a jiu jitsu world championship. You know, there's a handful of people like, you know, my jiu jitsu Professor Galbao, I mean, Andre Gabao, he was, I think, yeah, he was around my age, maybe even might have been a bit older. I think, you know, it was kind of like an anomaly. You know, there was like, you know, somebody like a Tom Brady, like, you know, it's like 40 years old that's still like, you know, out there winning Super Bowls. Right. You know, it doesn't happen that often. Unusual. So the. Yeah, I think the. Yeah, to answer that question, you know, it's kind of balance associated with things of, I think my dream more than anything else. I think, you know, like you said, I think it's you know, that kind of like master class kind of thing and, you know, like the deeper, like, understanding and excursion aspect of, you know, taking things on and studying things to a different level and degree. I think that's. I think that's for sure the. Probably a big aspect of the, you know, what the next few years are going to bring.
- [70:15]
A
Yeah. Well, Kyle, whatever it is you choose to do, I know that you will do it well and you will do it completely because that's what you do. It's been incredible having you on today, Kyle. I've really enjoyed it, getting to know you. Last question. If you had one sentence to make an impact in someone's life, kind of a go to. That's not the title of your book or Maybe it is. No excuses, but if you had that one sentence to make an impact in someone's life, what might that be?
- [70:48]
B
There's a. There's Joseph Campbell quote. He says, follow your bliss and the universe will open doors where previously there are only walls. I think it's. I think it's pretty. I think it's pretty remarkable. And the. I think it's. I think it's true. I think it's, you know, what's the nature of, you know, your, like, you know, bliss. It's funny that Jordan Peterson, he has a problem with. With that work. As much as I love him. He's always like. He's. He's always. He's always like, dog, that word. In every interview that I've seen him, like, talk about it.
- [71:42]
A
Bliss.
- [71:43]
B
Because bliss is like. Yeah, it's like Jordan.
- [71:47]
A
Jordan lives in the unsettled. He likes things to be right. He likes things to be a little unsettled.
- [71:53]
B
But things, I think the other, I think, for sure, bliss for different people, I think would mean different things. I think what he wants, you know, to avoid people having that, like, sense of just like. Yeah. The lack of the understanding of the fact that, like, suffering itself is such a necessary component and, like, you know, you have to have to be able to. Have to be able to suffer a.
- [72:29]
A
Difference between happiness and fulfillment. I mean, you know, happiness is really unattainable probably over time, but being fulfilled through our works, our suffering, our contribution, the impact we make to the people around us, those are, you know, if you can. If you can accomplish that. I think. I think we've done pretty well.
- [72:57]
B
Yeah, I think. And it's, you know, it's. You know, one of the things Cam talks about, too. It's, you know, like, the kind of the main, like, gift of that is it's the ability, too, to go through those trials and then you turn around and pass that gift on to somebody else. You know, it's. I think you said it's like returning with the elixir was the name of it. Yeah. The hero journey. But it's, you know, taking that, like, thing and, like, being able to, like, you know, the lessons associated with whatever it is that you learn and be able to pass that on to the next generation, you know, some, you know, someone there to be able to go and carry that, like. Yeah. Carry that torch forward. So it's. Yeah. You know, I love it. I think, you know, I love the nature of these conversations more than anything, too, is, you know, it's very unique thing as opposed to like with the speech is just a very linear kind of, kind of exploration. I think with these conversations, you know, things, you know, kind of going different and interesting directions.
- [74:18]
A
Well, I've certainly enjoyed it. Kyle, how can people reach you?
- [74:23]
B
The best way I think contact wise would just be through my website. I think there's like a email submit contact form on there and yeah, those generally will make their way to me over time. And if it's, you know, kind of related to some kind of event or appearance or something like that, then my longtime best friend, business manager Joey, he'll be on there to answer the, you know, answer any request on there if anybody has any sort of interest. So. But yeah, thank you, Jeff. Likewise. This is, this has been great. So appreciate you taking the time and looking forward to what you produce with. With these episodes too.
- [75:03]
A
Yeah, well, it's been a pleasure and an honor. That's Kyle Maynard. M A Y N A R D for those who are searching to get in touch with Kyle. Kyle, thank you much for sharing your story with us today and your wisdom on the home front.
- [75:17]
B
Thanks so much, Chef.