The CIA Operation That Almost Went Wrong with Ex-CIA Agent Andrew Bustamante

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Unemployable with Jeff Dudan

Episode: The CIA Operation That Almost Went Wrong with Ex-CIA Agent Andrew Bustamante
Date: May 11, 2026
Guest: Andrew Bustamante, ex-CIA agent & founder of Everyday Spy

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the complexities of espionage, covert operations, global geopolitics, and personal influence, featuring in-depth insights from ex-CIA agent Andrew Bustamante. Host Jeff Dudan asks probing questions about international conflicts (especially involving Iran and China), technological security risks, the realities of artificial intelligence (AI) in national security, and the fundamental human instincts behind manipulation and trust. The conversation intertwines real intelligence experience with applicable life and business lessons—for entrepreneurs and everyday listeners alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding the Iran Conflict & The Natanz Bombing

• Iran's Global Position:
  • Every CIA operative must understand power players like Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia.
  • “When it comes to the fundamentals of Iran, I’m there. But what an Iran specialist understands far exceeds my knowledge.” — Andrew Bustamante (00:43)
• On the U.S. Striking Iran’s Natanz Nuclear Facility:
  • The bombing was overt action, NOT covert.
  • The lack of immediate public retaliation from Iran doesn’t mean no response—it likely means a covert response is underway.
    • “When you don’t see response from overt action, it’s virtually guaranteed that there is covert action as the response.” — Andrew (02:35)
  • The analogy: If the “big kid” on the playground punches the smaller one, the small one won’t fight back directly but will find subtler forms of revenge.
    • “They’re gonna be like, hey, how do we pee in the guy’s milk at lunch?... That’s what Iran does.” — Andrew (04:01)
• Context Leading Up to the Event:
  • Israel neutralized Iran’s air defenses, creating a window for the U.S. to strike with little risk of retaliation.
    • “Israel had neutralized and destroyed almost all of Iran’s counter defensive tech capabilities… Iran was blind.” — Andrew (04:26)

2. Proxy Warfare, Response Timelines, and Public Perception

• Iran and the U.S. are engaged in proxy wars through Middle Eastern groups like Hamas—conflicts often recognized by the public only years after they start.
  • “That two-and-a-half-year fight went a full 18 months before any average lay American was like, oh, we’re actually fighting Iran.” — Andrew (05:56)

3. Espionage, AI, and Security Risks

• Cybersecurity and Data Theft:
  • China’s 2013 theft of U.S. military records exemplifies large-scale cyber-espionage.
  • The general public underestimates the severity and lag in awareness of these threats.
• AI in Intelligence Operations:
  • The intelligence world has used AI long before it was mainstream.
    • “Even when I was at CIA as a new recruit in 2007, AI was already actively being employed.” — Andrew (07:16)
    • The gap: What you see in public is ~15 years behind intelligence capabilities—on both sides.
    • “We are 15 years behind what their actual capabilities are because they’ve been investing in it covertly as well.” — Andrew (08:21)
• On Personal Security:
  • “No, there’s nothing you have that’s secure.” — Andrew (08:59)
  • Any digital device can be compromised—remotely—for a price (~$30,000).
    • This capability isn’t limited to governments; private actors can buy access, too.
    • Data-sharing (geofencing) even happens between phones in proximity due to commercial apps.

4. Everyday Spy: Skills of Influence and Behavioral Control

• Everyday Spy Skills:
  • Practical communication, influence, and personal development skills—adapted from CIA training—are accessible and actionable.
    • “The skills that we teach can be applied within minutes after you learn them… amplify relationships, amplify wealth, amplify personal health.” — Andrew (11:29)
  • Simple habits, like drinking water first thing in the morning, can have immediate transformative effects.
  • Training includes advanced communication techniques, building deep trust quickly, and persuasive skillsets.

5. Manipulation, Influence, and Loyalty

• The difference between manipulation, motivation, and influence is semantic; CIA calls it “behavioral control”:
  • “When you manipulate somebody… but we also motivate people… [it’s] getting people to take a certain action that we want.” — Andrew (14:24)
• Loyalty vs. Manipulation:
  • Manipulation is neither inherently bad nor good; context matters.
  • In both intelligence and business, influence is a matter of systematically “planting seeds” and waiting for opportunity.
    • “CIA teaches us to systematically plant the seeds consistently over time, because we know that your life is gonna change in some unpredictable way. And when that unpredictable change is not something that you like, the seeds that we planted will grow.” — Andrew (18:01)
• Why “Good” People Turn:
  • The major driver for turning traitor? Survival instinct. Tribal (group) loyalty competes with personal interest—CIA leverages this universal psychological tension.
    • “The reason that it’s easy to convert a patriot into a traitor is because… there’s one dominant instinct. And that dominant instinct is survival instinct.” — Andrew (16:16)

6. Insights for Entrepreneurs & Executives

• Business success mirrors espionage: the consistent, disciplined application of influence and relationship-building over time pays off—especially when competitors falter.
• Skills of persuasion and behavioral control are immediately relevant for business, leadership, and personal relationships.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Overt and Covert Action:
  • “When you don’t see response from overt action, it’s virtually guaranteed that there is covert action as the response.” — Andrew (02:35)
• On Revenge in Int’l Affairs:
  • “They're gonna bond with other little kids and be like, hey, how do we pee in the guy’s milk at lunch? … That’s what Iran does.” — Andrew (04:01)
• On Public Security:
  • “No, there’s nothing you have that’s secure.” — Andrew (08:59)
• On the Reality of AI in the Intelligence World:
  • “The AI race now, we’re all 15 years behind—the average American is 15 years uninformed about the risk of AI.” — Andrew (07:50)
• On Everyday Spy’s Mission:
  • “My company is there to change people’s lives in an instant, in a moment… through an inflection point.” — Andrew (13:36)
• On Loyalty and Manipulation:
  • “There is no motivation or manipulation. It’s just behavioral control.” — Andrew (14:32)
• On How Quickly Loyalty Can Shift:
  • “It’s shockingly a short bridge.” — Andrew (15:31)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Iran/US Natanz Nuclear Facility Bombing: 00:43 – 05:44
• Proxy Warfare & Iran-U.S. Public Perception: 05:44 – 06:19
• AI, Espionage, Public Digital Vulnerability: 07:16 – 10:34
• Everyday Spy Skills (Life/Business Application): 10:59 – 13:58
• Manipulation, Loyalty, Behavioral Control: 14:12 – 19:03
• Wrap-up and Everyday Spy Quiz: 19:14 – 20:03

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How to Connect with Andrew Bustamante & Everyday Spy

• Website: EverydaySpy.com
• Social Media: All channels @EverydaySpy
• Free Quiz: Linked in the podcast description (helps you assess your “spy type” and operational strengths)

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This episode is an invaluable listen—whether interested in international affairs, cybersecurity, or simply mastering influence and self-improvement, Andrew Bustamante offers both gripping stories and pragmatic advice straight from the world of espionage.

Transcript

[A]

This story is representative of the page turner that the book is. It's just one interesting scenario after another. The logic, the thinking, it's so informative. So we're not going to go. People need to read it. So we're not going to go any farther into it because I am interested to know a few more details about, you know, how it went. But like, it's all in the book. It's all in the book.

[B]

I appreciate that.

[A]

And people need, people need to get the book and they need to listen to you wherever they are. I've got a couple of questions though. What's your familiar familiarity with Iran?

[B]

Every CIA officer has a handful of countries that they have to understand on a fundamental level, right? China is one of those countries. Iran's one of those countries. North Korea is one of those countries. Saudi Arabia is one of those countries. Turkey is one of those countries. Russia is one of those countries. So when it comes to the fundamentals of Iran, I'm there. But what an Iran specialist understands far exceeds my knowledge.

[A]

For years, decades maybe, since I was a child. With the hostage crisis forward, it was always my understanding that that was the one country that was the most significant other than maybe Russia and China, but the next country, that maybe our relations were poor and the nuclear risk was high and that they were funding, constantly funding things around the globe against us. And then we fly over there and we drop a bunker buster bomb on their nuclear enrichment factory.

[B]

One of them.

[A]

One of them. Why was there no retaliation to that? What in the. Like, I, I couldn't believe we did it because it was counter to everything that I ever believed that the way that we wanted to handle that situation, but yet we just did it. And I'm interested if there's any insight you have around why we did it and whether that, what that has done with our position with that country.

[B]

Remember how I was telling you espionage is a, is a franchise. Everybody does it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One of the key elements of espionage is covert action, meaning you take action that nobody can see. What we did when we dropped those deep penetrating bombs on the Natanz factory weapons in a nuclear enrichment factory, we did not take covert action. We took overt action. Right. When you don't see response from overt action, it's virtually guaranteed that there is covert action as the response.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Iran understands that the worst Iran, China and Russia have all learned from Al Qaeda. You don't fuck with the United States publicly. Right. If you think about what these countries have done to the United States in the last 25 years. China broke into our military records database in 2013 and stole every military record of every retired, deceased and active duty military member from the database itself and got away with it. We didn't do anything against China. We kept buying their plastic shit. They kept buying our, our rice and metal shit. Right. Because there was no overt response to their overt attack. Everything we did was covert. All of our response to China after that was something the public couldn't see, that the government didn't want the public to see it. Because if there was public response, there'd be escalation. Iran is the same way. They're not stupid back country hillbillies, they're not dumb. They're just prioritizing their responses differently than what we would expect. Americans oftentimes forget we are the wealthiest, most capable military in the world with the most modern technology and weapons systems at our disposal.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you were the big kid on the, on the playground and you went up and you punched some little kid in the face, do you really think that little kid's gonna come back and try to punch you in the face? No. That little kid's gonna bond with other little kids and they're gonna be like, hey, how do we pee in the guy's milk at lunch? That's what they're gonna figure out. So that's what Iran does.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You also have to put in context what happened in the months leading up to the bombing of the Natanz facility. Israel had escalated conflict with Iran.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They had already flown in cruise missiles and fighter jets. They had neutralized and destroyed almost all of Iran's counter defensive tech capabilities. They had blown up their surface to air missiles. They had knocked down their radar systems. Iran was blind. So the reason the United States, the reason Trump was comfortable flying in some of our most expensive assets to drop a couple of bombs on a country that was completely sovereign and technically at peace with the United States was because he knew that there was no system to respond. The reason Israel took the risk to destroy all that was to get the United States involved in this conflict. So there's many, many movements on the chessboard that you have to take into account before you think about just the bunker buster. And then in response to the bunker buster, my, my point here is whatever Iran is doing, they didn't have to do it right away.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

They don't have to do it overtly. So what is the COVID response that they're planning that they have already put in motion, that maybe has even happened? And we just haven't been publicly exposed to it. Maybe they launched some kind of digital trojan horse against DOD that's causing absolute havoc with Space Force right now. But it's all covert, so the American public doesn't know it's there.

[A]

Well, we are already fighting a proxy war in Israel through Hamas and all those other places that are funded by Iran. So was just, it was an escalation to a already public skirmish that we were fighting through others.

[B]

And think about how long it took before the American public even recognized that the conflict between Hamas and Israel was a proxy war with Iran. It's that two and a half year fight went a full 18 months before anybody, any average lay American, was like, oh, we're actually fighting Iran. There's some people probably listening to this now that are like, like what? We were fighting with Iran?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have something I'm deeply interested in your opinion on. You just mentioned the theft of the military records by China. You've got TikTok installed on hundreds of millions of people's phones, which can provide all kinds of information about the whereabouts and the ongoings of American citizens. Um, you have the ability, there is the ability to literally scrape any device of all of its information at any time without proximity, whether it be laptops, computer, cell phones, any of these things. And there's just so much information out there. But from our perspective, the public's perspective, the ability to have artificial intelligence to make sense of that mess is new. But is it new for the government?

[B]

No. No. Even when I was at CIA as a new recruit in 2007, AI was already actively being employed.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's not the generative AI creating fancy videos and deepfakes that we're used to seeing now. Right. It was precursor to that. But when you think about the head start that that CIA had on AI in 2007 versus when AI became a mainstream topic to lay American in what, 2024. Yes, it's a huge advantage.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that if we had it, all of our allies had it. The Brits, the Canadians, the Australians, the New Zealanders, the, the Israelis, the Turks. And if they had it, they then their biggest competitors also had it. The Chinese, the Russian, the North Koreans, the Saudis, the Emiratis, the Iranians. So everybody's had a head start. When I Look at the AI race now, we're all 15 years behind the average American and their opinion is 15 years uninformed about the risk of AI. When we look at China now and we see what their capabilities are publicly now, right. We are 15 years behind what their actual capabilities are because they've been investing in it covertly as well. When we look at the generative capability that exists in the United States, we have to hope that our intelligence services are also 15 years ahead of what we see. Otherwise, the race is already over.

[A]

Yeah. As an American, is there anything that I have that is secure?

[B]

No, there's nothing you have that's secure. I tell this to people all the time, and it's a very uncomfortable truth. If you become a target, and unfortunately, we live in a world right now where you can become a political target also. Right. If you become a target, there's nothing you can do. Just like you were saying a few seconds ago, there are. You can remotely scrape any digital device anywhere in the world. And if you can do that, I mean, here's what's amazing. It costs about $30,000 to remotely scrape anyone's technology. I can make a phone call right now, transfer 30 grand, and scrape your entire phone without you knowing about it. Scrape your personal laptop, scrape your Netflix account, scrape your. Your smart TV or smart refrigerator, anything.

[A]

Is that a public or private resource? That's a private resource available to anybody.

[B]

Anybody. Anybody that has five figures that they

[A]

want to spend on it and the phone number.

[B]

And people. People. Well, and a phone number or a contact that has close access to your phone. I don't know if you know this. My phone and your phone, simply by being within proximity, share data. They share data. If you have certain apps installed, one of those apps is Meta. If you have Facebook or Instagram on your phone, the proximity of those two phones can actually share data about the other phone. It's something called geofencing. Totally legit commercial technology. But that makes it so I don't even need to know your phone number. I just need to know that she's in the room with us and her phone's with her.

[A]

Got it. Everyday Spy. So as an executive, as a curious executive who's built a lot of businesses, I've had the opportunity to get training on communication. Couldn't tell it from this interview. Boy, you should have heard the word salad I'd had 10 years ago. You know, words need to be served neat. No ice cubes.

[B]

I like it. It's like. It's just like my bourbon.

[A]

Yeah, just nice and neat. But the training that you're bringing with Everyday Spy, and how quickly can people integrate what you're teaching into their conversations with their family, with their children, Business. What's the. What is the. What is the get for people or working with you, consuming your content however you do it.

[B]

I'll answer your question first and then answer why second. Yeah, the skills that we teach can be applied within minutes after you learn them. They can amplify relationships, amplify wealth, amplify personal health. Because these are the same three pillars that CIA wants to amplify in every officer. And CIA doesn't deal with the science. They focus on the practicality. We don't get to learn why shit works. They just tell us do it, we do it and it works. And that's all it takes for us to keep doing it. Okay, so whether it's something as simple as drinking 500ml of water as soon as you wake up, anybody who drinks 500 milliliters of water tomorrow morning will literally transform their entire day 15 minutes after they drink that water. Something as simple as that, all the way up to the specific words and cadence of your voice to create a temporary hypnosis to get a person to trust you more than they should trust you. So that they devolve secrets. Secrets. CIA teaches us the step by step of multiple tactics. The reason I teach these and CI and Everyday Spy can get these into the hands of the everyday person within minutes, within hours, within days, depending on how fast the person applies them, is because when I went to CIA, I was expecting to be a movie star. I was expecting to drive fast cars, meet fast women, and look really good in a custom tailored suit. Yeah, none of that happened. But what happened instead was they completely changed my life. They changed the way I thought. They changed the way I looked at the world around me. They changed the way that I engaged with people. They changed the way that I prioritized opportunities and risks. And that was a permanent change. If they would have given me a nice suit and a sports car, it would have been awesome for about two days. Instead, they gave me skills that made the rest of my life exponentially better than every year of my life up until the day that I started training. And that's what I want to do with Everyday Spy. My company is there to change people's lives in an instant, in a moment, to completely change the future direction, the trajectory through an inflection point. That can be as simple as an $11 four part special series that you purchased. If they just read. It doesn't take long to read a three page article, but it can change the direction of your entire future.

[A]

How much of our success has to do with manipulation? Whether it be to make money or manipulation with Good intent to create positive change in other people.

[B]

The short answer is the vast majority of your success is tied to the. What you say is the manipulation of people.

[A]

We could call it influence, but it's really manipulation.

[B]

And even the word manipulation is a term that we don't use at CIA, inside the walls of CIA.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because manipulation has an inherently negative connotation to it. It's like the opposite of loyalty. Loyalty has a positive connotation. Manipulation has a negative connotation. When in fact, what we're talking about, when we use the word manipulation or when we use a word like motivation, what we're talking about is getting people to take a certain action that we want. When you manipulate somebody, you get them to take an action that you want that doesn't benefit them, but we also motivate people to take a specific action that benefits us and also benefits them. Okay, so that's how CIA looks at it. There is no motivation or manipulation. It's just behavioral control. Getting a person to take a behavior

[A]

that you are directing when you're looking to turn a target, is it motivation through something that they want and need? And where does somebody. What's the psychological bridge that somebody needs to cross to betray their country with information?

[B]

It's shockingly a short bridge.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

It is.

[A]

So I can be bought, by the way, just if any CIA people are out there.

[B]

I don't know if your national secrets are worth.

[A]

I don't. They're worth much. But I do like Starbucks, the Easy. The.

[B]

You had two questions there. Right, so. So the first question was. I just lost the first question, actually.

[A]

Yeah, me too. It's been a minute. It's been a minute. No, but it was what a psychological

[B]

bridge was a. Yeah. What is.

[A]

What is the bridge to get somebody to basically say, I'm. I'm willing to make this trade of what I had. It's going to be to the detriment of my country, but it's going to be for the benefit of me. How do I justify it?

[B]

The reason that it's easy to convert a patriot into a traitor is because when it comes down to getting anybody to take an action, there's a. There's one dominant instinct. And that dominant instinct is survival instinct. Human beings are still animals. We might be spiritual animals, but we are still biological animals. And every animal has two competing instincts. A survival instinct and a tribal instinct. We all know that we're better in groups, but we all also know that if we're in a group, we might not be taken Care of. We might be the weakest in the group. We might be tricked. The berries that I gather all day might get shared with somebody I don't like. So we have these two competing and conflicting instincts at all times, which is why sometimes you see people act in their own best interest. Sometimes you see people act in the best interest of the group. CIA understands that. It's a psychological thing in all people, all ages, all educational levels, all languages, all religious sets. Right. Competing instincts. So when I want you to do something, I just have to pander to your survival instincts. Because if it's not the dominant instinct in this moment, maybe you're feeling really safe with your family, and I just plant the seed like, you know, you're a handsome guy. Well, now, two weeks from now, when your wife is mad at you and you and I are having a bourbon together, you remember that? I think you're a handsome guy. And now maybe you're thinking, I wonder if we could go to a strip club. I wonder if we could go. Take off these wedding rings and go on a date somewhere and see if we can, you know, pick some ladies up. That's exactly what happens to people. Right? You're with a business partner, and you're happy with that business partner on Monday, but on Wednesday, they piss you off, and now all of a sudden you're okay talking to somebody about selling the business?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Right. That's. It's those competing instincts that are constantly happening. So CIA teaches us to systematically plant the seeds consistently over time, because we know that your life is gonna change in some unpredictable way. And when that unpredictable change is not something that you like, the seeds that

[A]

we planted will grow, and there's recency, so you have to be consistent. And they're just like, you know what? I'll probably see Andrew next week. Born Alex. Alex. What was your name? Alex Rodriguez. I'll see Alex Rodriguez in Falcon next week, and he'll have something for me.

[B]

Yeah, and that's. That's the system. That's also the system for good business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Plant seeds consistently over time, and that client who isn't interested in you today is going to eventually have friction with their primary provider. And then when they come to you and they're like, can you rescue me? Can you save me?

[A]

Boom.

[B]

You have a new premium client for life. Because you said you spent the time planting the seeds.

[A]

Yeah. Well, Andrew, this has been great. Thank you so much for coming in. Can you tell people the best way to get in touch with you or to get familiar with your content.

[B]

You can find me on my homepage all the time. Everydayspy.com you can find me on social media, every channel at Everyday Spy. And you can always click on the link in the description of this interview and you'll be taken to our spy quiz. The same quiz quiz that you used to find out that you were a mastermind.

[A]

I took it this morning. What does that mean? Does that mean I'm eligible or ineligible or higher as a agent?

[B]

It's funny. The most people are fully eligible to be hired. It just depends on the need of the mission that they fill you as a mastermind, it means that you are very operationally oriented. You are by all means a successful business owner. So it makes sense. You think quickly, you are decisive, you take risks. But it also means that I know that you might struggle with self discipline because follow through isn't always the best. I actually hear giggles coming from the producer over here.

[A]

Fair. Fair feedback. Fair feedback. Well, obviously. And it's a free test. It took me about five minutes to take this morning and gave me some great feedback. So, yeah. So I appreciate it. All right, everybody go there.