Podcast Summary: "The Difference Between Running a Business and Building One"

Unemployable with Jeff Dudan
Guest: Ryan Groth, CEO of Sales Transformation Group
Date: March 17, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Jeff Dudan welcomes Ryan Groth—founder of Sales Transformation Group and a notable sales consultant to over 1,000 contracting businesses—to discuss the critical difference between running a business versus building one, especially within the trades (roofing, HVAC, and related industries). The conversation explores why some companies stay small, the importance of business acumen, challenges in creating sales-driven organizations, changes in insurance and product trends, and the role of personal development and competitive drive in building truly exceptional businesses.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Do Small Companies Stay Small?

• Business Acumen is the Core Difference:
  • "You'll see the shift when people mature from ‘I’m a roofer’ to ‘I’m a business person who happens to own a roofing company.’” (Ryan, 02:10)
  • Generational handoffs often determine whether a business scales or stagnates. Educated successors or those open to learning new skills typically grow the business; lack of business knowledge keeps it small.
  • Reference to the old business adage about generational cycles: first generation builds, second grows, third often declines. (Jeff & Ryan, 03:11)

2. Consulting for Growth-Minded Contractors

• Sales Transformation Group Approach:
  • Ryan’s team helps growth-minded contractors in various trades develop and implement sales processes, leadership workshops, and ongoing coaching (04:43–09:34).
  • Culture is critical: “Maybe their sales training isn’t working... maybe the culture itself in their sales team is not retaining or attracting the right people.” (Ryan, 04:43)
  • Ongoing group calls, workshops, and even on-site sales management are vital parts of their programs.

3. Identifying & Overcoming Crisis Points in Businesses

• Pain Points that Trigger Change:
  • Companies call consultants when facing existential or competitive problems: shifting insurance landscapes, failing sales culture, cash flow issues, or realizing they’re “order takers, not salespeople” (11:25–13:47).
  • “If it's left unaddressed, it can cost them a lot.” (Ryan, 11:25)

4. The Hardest Size to Run & Why Scaling is Rare

• Most companies ($1M service companies) lack bandwidth for professional management but still require all critical roles.
• Jeff: “A million dollar service business is the hardest to run because you really don’t have enough money to hire professional management... but all the things have to be done. So you end up wearing seven different hats.” (14:14)
• Many owners revert to comfort zones, stalling growth.

5. Industry Comparison: HVAC vs. Roofing

• HVAC is generally more sophisticated and mature in sales operations, partly due to longer exposure to private equity and professional management culture. (Ryan, 15:06)

6. Changes in Insurance & Roofing Products

• Insurance coverage for roofing jobs is changing rapidly, forcing companies to learn to sell value in retail, not just through insurance claims. Relationships and branding matter more than ever.
  • “Now more than ever, you need to do annual inspection, you need to sell relationships, not jobs... people are spending real money.” (Ryan, 17:02–19:14)
• Roofing products have evolved (“shingles weigh less than they did in ’92,” Jeff, 19:14), with a nod toward quality-focused brands like Certainteed.

7. Alternative Products & Coatings

• Discussion of high-end alternatives (Da Vinci, solar shingles by Tesla) and the growing role of roof coatings, especially as a “downsell” for businesses entering commercial jobs. (22:40–28:29)
• "Coatings are here to stay... it’s a good economic solution for companies." (Ryan, 28:29)

8. What Makes a Great Salesperson?

• Assessment and Core Competencies:
  • Uses third-party tools to evaluate 21 core sales competencies, categorized as ‘will to sell’ (heart), ‘sales DNA’ (mind/OS), and consultative skills. (Ryan, 30:15–33:20)
  • Will to sell (“people who are hungry, driven, have a motivation and desire”) is the biggest predictor.
  • "If they don’t really have any desire, they don’t really care... let’s find some people who are hungry and we’ll teach them how to think.” (Ryan, 30:15)
• On being present: Best salespeople actively listen and are present, not caught up in their own objectives. (35:21–36:16)

9. Are Great Salespeople Born or Made?

• “Absolutely made. I don’t think someone’s going to come out with tonality skills and empathy... those are trained and made.” (Ryan, 36:25)
• However, “Some people have more God given ability and talent... In general, the industry is evolving and requiring more talent.” (Ryan, 38:39)

10. The Business Athlete Analogy

• Sports background helps but is neither necessary nor sufficient for business success.
  • "You can have a guy who played in the NBA and couldn’t talk to somebody at all, right?” (Ryan, 43:53)
• What matters is “desire” and “hate to lose”—relentless dedication, regardless of athleticism.

11. Sales Team Culture & Gamification

• Gamification and competition (leaderboards, contests) increase engagement and productivity for sales teams. (46:05–47:20)
  • “The identity of an athlete and a competitor needs to find a home somewhere. And if it’s done in a healthy way... it creates purpose.” (Ryan, 46:49)

12. Personal Story & Decision to Move

• Ryan shares about living (and soon moving from) Hawaii, balancing family and business, plus the aftereffects of wildfires on Maui and the local community (47:30–54:12).
  • “With our, with between that, the amount of travel I already do for business... just getting up at 4am, going to bed at 8pm... it’s kind of wearing me out.” (Ryan, 48:10)

13. Trends & Future Outlook

• Labor Shortages & Immigration: The labor crisis in the trades is worsening; businesses must create clear career paths to attract future talent.
• AI’s Growing Influence: CRM software and automation will rapidly become standard even in the trades. (60:06–62:15)
  • “AI’s got to be it, the biggest one. But labor... that’s the opportunity for people.” (Ryan, 60:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Wisdom comes from experience, and experience comes from making mistakes. I think our lessons coming from failure can be our best teacher.” — Ryan Groth (00:00, 64:53)

• On Sales Talent:

  • “If you have the desire, a lot of the other stuff can be changed.” (Ryan, 30:15)
  • “If they think $1,000 is a lot of money, and we’re trying to sell a $2 million job, they’re gonna have a difficult time feeling confident.” (Ryan, 32:22)

• On Small Business Owners:

  • “Many small business owners don’t push through and rebuild the company of the future—they revert back to the company of the past.” (Jeff, 13:47)

• On Industry Change:

  • “Now more than ever, you need to... sell relationships, not jobs.” (Ryan 17:02)
  • “The identity of the athlete and competitor needs to find a home somewhere.” (Ryan, 46:49)

• On Family and Relocation:

  • “Our hope is that we keep the property [in Maui]... But yeah, it’s a great place to visit. It can be tough to live there.” (Ryan, 48:10)

Important Timestamps

• [02:10] Why some companies scale and others stay small
• [04:43] Overview of Sales Transformation Group’s services
• [11:25] Underlying problems that push companies to seek help
• [15:06] HVAC industry maturity versus roofing
• [17:02] Changes in insurance and the growing importance of brand/relationships
• [22:40] Product trends: solar shingles, coatings, and alternatives
• [30:15] How salespeople are assessed and developed
• [36:25] Are great salespeople born or made?
• [46:05] Gamification and competition in sales teams
• [48:10] Ryan’s Hawaii story & challenges of remote leadership
• [60:06] Trends: labor, AI, and the future of the trades
• [64:53] Final advice: "Wisdom comes from experience, and experience comes from making mistakes."

Final Fastball & Closing Advice

Q: If you had one sentence to make an impact in somebody's life, what would that be?

“Wisdom comes from experience, and experience comes from making mistakes. I think our lessons coming from failure can be our best teacher.”
— Ryan Groth (64:53)

Connect with Ryan Groth:

• salestransformationgroup.com
• Social: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube (“Ryan Groth” or “Sales Transformation Group”)

This summary highlights the practical distinctions between merely running a business and strategically building one—with an emphasis on leadership, sales culture, personal growth, and industry adaptation. Whether you’re in the trades or any other entrepreneurial pursuit, the lessons on business acumen, people management, and resilience resonate well beyond the room.