← Unemployable with Jeff Dudan
Unemployable with Jeff Dudan
The FBI Knocked on Her Door… and Everything Fell Apart with Rashmi Airan
01:05:11
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- [00:00]
A
I made the very difficult decision of pleading guilty. At the time, it was like the hardest thing I've ever done because I was like in fighting mode, you know, and my whole life I was this perfect little Indian girl who never colored outside the lines. And I had this path set out for my life like this. I was like the good girl. Now all of a sudden, I'm in a place where I'm now pleading to be a felon for the rest of my life. And like, I remember one of my friends said, rashmi, you stood naked and exposed for the entire world to judge you.
- [00:27]
B
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Unemployable Podcast. I'm Jeff Duden. If you are a former attorney and Wall street investment banker who served time in prison as a result of activities connected to real estate closings and are now a serial entrepreneur, law school professor, professionally trained vocalist, and globally recognized transformation expert, your name can only be Rashmi. Aaron. Welcome.
- [00:56]
A
Thanks, Jeff. Thank you for having me. I'm psyched to be here and I. I have so much respect for you.
- [01:05]
B
Well, I appreciate that it's been a minute since we've been together and I really look forward to catching up with you. We. We've been together at several events over the years where I was fortunate enough to see you speak and get to know a little bit about your story. P here's my opener today. Can someone have absolutely no idea they are doing something wrong and still go to prison?
- [01:28]
A
Yes.
- [01:32]
B
That's the short answer.
- [01:33]
A
Short answer. Honestly, Jeff, I feel like we are in a world of every leader facing so much of an onslaught and barrage of information, whether it's from AI, cybersecurity alerts or market volatility, global uncertainty and unrest, you know, talent shortages. We're just in the midst of so much coming at us all the time in pressure and urgency and speed. And in those moments, I think every one of us as leaders, at home, at work, in our communities, is prone and could possibly make a quick, convenient decision without thinking through the consequences of what those decisions could be. And so, like so much of my research and work now is in this space because once we can get clarity and awareness on how to make those better decisions, like what's the mental process we can go through, then we can all have a better roadmap so we don't end up like I did. But it is very easy. And, you know, but for the grace of God, there go I, is what I always say, right? Like, on any given day, any one of us could do something that is currently illegal or unethical or seven years later could be found to be. And then they come back to you. So there's just so many iterations of what this looks like.
- [02:47]
B
So, yeah, the thing I think about is tax fraud. And you think about Willie Nelson or was it Denzel Washington? Hopefully I got those names right. Or else there's a claim coming for defamation. But people who, you know, I know that there's been celebrities and there's been people that have made lots of money performing in different states and doing all this. And if you don't have really sophisticated tax people around you, then all of a sudden you get in trouble. And you had no idea that the taxes either weren't getting paid. You're not getting those notices. You've got a business office, you've got a business manager, but at the end of the day, you're the one that is responsible and accountable if something doesn't get done right under your name.
- [03:34]
A
Yeah, that's a great example. I think also I think there's another version of that. Right. Our tax codes and tax laws keep changing.
- [03:43]
B
Right.
- [03:44]
A
And so it could be that you think you are following the law or your team believes that they are. Something changes, they're not paying attention. They're not staying on top of any sort of like, you know, new laws that are passed. And then now all of a sudden you continue to do status quo or like what you're used to, and all of a sudden that thing is not legal anymore. And so like, then you get caught in this, like, issue. Well, ignorance is not a, in a defense. So then what do you do?
- [04:11]
B
Right, Right. Rashmi, you grew up in a, in a family where excellence was expected and high standards. Undergraduate unc, Cornell Law School, graduating top of your class. You went to Wall Street. Oh, geez. Columbia started with a C. Okay, let's
- [04:31]
A
get the right Ivy League.
- [04:33]
B
Yeah, well, thank you for correcting me on that. It's, you know, I, the, I never closest I got to Ivy was, you know, I was working as a landscaper. But it's important, Ivy.
- [04:48]
A
But you know, look, I, I, as an Indian immigrant daughter of Indian immigrants, like, the goal of like, oh, I have to get into an Ivy League, I think is very common for, for not just Indian immigrants, I think for first generation immigrants, but also just high achievers, type A. Right. We begin to define ourselves by these metrics. And it absolutely was how I was raised. And so it was certainly a goal of mine. Although having gone through these life experiences, I am the first one to Tell my kids as well as others, I think it's awesome to have the education. I'm very proud of being a Columbia alumni. But I just think education in general is important. I really think as long as you as an individual are focused and committed and study and are intentional and not just, like, flying by, that's what matters. Right? You know? Yeah, the pedigree is great, but it's not needed and essential.
- [05:47]
B
Yeah. Then you had a career on Wall street, then you went into private practice with your own law firm, and you were doing real estate closings. Walk us through, if you can, your story and what happened to you.
- [06:02]
A
Yeah, so I graduated law school and ended up in California, actually, first working for a big law firm. Ended up back in Miami, worked for a big law firm. Then I worked for the government as a government attorney. And eventually I started my own practice. It was, let's say, mid-2004, and I was pounding the pavement. My husband at the time was a firefighter. We ended up having two little children. And so in 2007, when my kids were 2 and 3, I had the chance to meet a real estate developer. And so if you can just sort of take yourselves back to 2007. Right. The heyday of real estate. I live in South Florida and Miami, so it was, like, insane here in the market. And I had.
- [06:41]
B
I was getting loans I didn't even apply for.
- [06:43]
A
Well, okay, so this. So you're speaking directly to what I. What was happening. Right. So I, at the time I was doing. I was a small solo entrepreneur, you know, solopreneur, running a business of about five people. And I was in the process of, like, constantly hustling. So imagine, like, being in a state. I'm a young mother. My kids are two and three. You know, my husband is here and there, you know, in and out of the firehouse. And I am, like, running around every possible dinner event and, and, and, and networking event and selling my services at the gym and like, every possible place. I was like, in that speed moment, running around the race course of life, trying to get to the next client, trying to get the next client to be, like, to book me or to use me. And, and in that context, in 2007, I had the chance to meet a real estate developer. So in my mind, what's happening is, oh, God, if I can get this one client, it's like, it was like a light bulb, right? Like, oh, that's like, the answer to all my problems. I'm going to have financial stability. I'm going to have you know, essentially at the end of the day, more time with my kids. And that's how I saw it. And so I kind of jumped. I, like, jumped at the opportunity. I was like, okay, I'm gonna. Internally, what was happening was I'm gonna do everything I can. And I hope that I wow this guy enough that he wants to use me. So I go. Long story short, I met with his two operations guys. They began to describe creative transactions that they were doing. And they were creative. And I think there's this part of me not think. I know. There was this part of me that was like, oh, I'm strategic and aggressive, and I'm a bold, out of the box thinker. I. I can do creative things. Like, I'm smart enough to do creative things. And so as he began to describe the scenario of what he was doing, which was essentially, he was giving a buyer rental guarantee, so it was a buyer incentive to move his condominium conversion units. And I wanted this client so badly. Like, I didn't ask the questions that I should have asked. First and foremost. Foremost is, why are you leaving your big law firm that you've been working with for two years? Right. Instead, what was going on in my head was, oh, I'm special. There's something smart about me. I'm. You know, it was very arrogant, honestly, for me to be thinking that way because I. I just assumed that there was something special about me versus, oh, you actually just want something. So I ended up doing 200 closings for this client in about 15 months. I didn't ask for help. I didn't ask for a second opinion. I didn't look around and say, you know, this doesn't feel right. Like, my gut was screaming, and I just was not listening because something felt off. There were moments that kept happening, and instead of questioning, I just pushed down that feeling, you know, like that gut feeling. And I stopped working with him in 2000, 2009, early 2009. And then I went to. I went into private practice with my father, merged my practice with my dad's, and essentially a couple years later, the FBI knocked on my door and they grilled me. I didn't have an attorney. I let them in. And, like, I should know better. I should know that don't talk to the FBI without an attorney. But it's like human nature takes over, and human nature says, well, I didn't do anything wrong, so I should talk to the FBI. Otherwise they're going to definitely think I did something wrong. And so I let them in. They Talked to me, they grilled me for four hours. So they were like showing me documents and emails and like all of these things. And I didn't recognize the reach of the federal government and how important that moment was for me because I did end up like prejudicing myself because I like, instead of saying, I don't remember, I was saying yes, no, without recognizing it. And so like did you ever see this email? Did you ever meet this person? Right. Instead of stopping to think, I was answering again in the speed of the moment.
- [10:36]
B
Yeah.
- [10:38]
A
So when they left, I thought that was over. I was like, oh, I'm the records custodian, I have all the files. That's all they want. Then two more years go by and I get a grand jury subpoena for documents. So I'm still operating with the pretense that I haven't done anything wrong. Right. Like they just want, they just want my documents. Within three months, my attorney called me to his office and he said, Rashmi, you're a target. Which by the way, I did not know what that meant. I, you know, I'm like, I'm not a criminal lawyer, I'm a, I'm a dirt lawyer. I'm a real estate lawyer. What does that mean? And when he began to explain it to me, and this is like a father figure of mine and like, you know, he basically said, they're coming after you. And it was like my whole life fell apart. My, I, I remember I was in his office and he had a couch and I like sat down and not sat, I fell down, collapsed and started shaking uncontrollably. I was like, this can't be happening. And then I tried every possible thing to avoid indictment. Like I called the prosecutor's former boss who was now private practice and hired him to try to see if that guy could convince the prosecutor, like use his influence and like friendship.
- [11:46]
B
Right.
- [11:47]
A
I couldn't believe that this was even a possibility that was about to happen in my life. By April of 2014, I was indicted for one count of conspiracy to commit bank fraud and 24 counts of bank fraud. And I then kind of poured into all the discovery. So there was 200,000 pages of documents and 15,000 emails. And I was like, I'm going to find that smoking gun. Like I'm going to prove my innocence. And, and every day I would take my kids to camp or school and I would come back. I had a war room set up in my parents house, which is actually now where I live. I live in a multi generational home. And I would go through these documents and I would separate out like, okay, this is good evidence for me. This is not so good evidence for me. And I would meet with my then new attorney who was also a friend who was gonna be my trial attorney, his name's David. And. And we basically started to go through the documentation in a way that, you know, it was like, I think, helped them understand what the actual reality was versus the reality I had in my head. So when they called me into their office In August of 2014, Mom, dad and I walked in expecting to talk about like trial prep and exhibits and, you know, my testimony and strategy, witness it, all that stuff. And instead he gave me a whole presentation. Actually his partner did, Margo, and she said, okay, Russian, if you go to trial, the government has to prove their case and this is the evidence they're going to use. Then we're going to come up and we're going to give our defense and this is the evidence we're going to use. And then the government's going to stand up and give the rebuttal. And the rebuttal email, the rebuttal piece, main piece of evidence, was an email that I had forwarded on Christmas Eve at 8 o' clock while I was making my children sleep with a house full of relatives. And it's like the perfect example of Christmas Eve 2007 with a house full of relatives. When I didn't have to open an email regarding a closing, I forwarded an email. And that email ended up being one of the most crucial pieces of evidence against me by the government. And, you know, I always say to people, you know, people in the audience, like, how have you ever forwarded an email and not opened the attachment, read it in its full, paid attention to the consequences of, of that email, or asked for help, you know, and the reality is we've all done it right in the moment. You think it's just this one time or I'm just forwarding an email, it's not a big deal, but that matters. And so he looked at me and he goes, rashmi, I know that you didn't walk into this planning a cry. And back to sort of your question at the very beginning of this, he said, but, but couple things. As an attorney, you had a fiduciary duty to do more, to ask more questions. At a minimum, you could have walked away and you didn't. And the truth is, is you wanted this client, you know, and you knew there were these buyer incentives. You should have asked more questions and Then he said something very important, which is not doing something, is still doing something wrong. And we were talking about the jury instruction of willful blindness. And he said, sometimes we do. We're in a moment, and we stay silent because that just feels easier and more convenient. And not speaking up ends up becoming the problem. Right. In my case, I mean, yes, I didn't speak up. I didn't ask questions. But I was also closing all these deals without having asked these questions. So I had, like, both things going on. Active participation and not asking the right questions. So I made the very difficult decision of pleading guilty. At the time, it was, like, the hardest thing I've ever done because I. I was, like, in fighting mode, you know? And my whole life, I was this perfect little Indian girl who never colored outside the lines. And I had this path set out for my life like this. I. I was like the good girl. Now all of a sudden, I'm in a place where I'm now pleading to be a felon for the rest of my life. And it took all the courage I could to recognize that that was the right decision for me. Had I not pledged and. And, like, I understood and then owned my responsibility in this and took accountability, had I gone to trial, I would have lost because, you know, the documentation for a conspiracy count. All they had to show was that I knew one detail. Like, that's all they had to show out of 500 million. And that would have been very easy to show. And my attorney had said. David had said, listen, if you go to trial, you're going to lose, and you're looking at 20 years.
- [16:14]
B
Wow.
- [16:14]
A
And you're going to miss your kid's whole life. Like, all of it. And he was crying, and I was crying and. Cause I've known him 20 years. Like, he's a friend. He lives down the street. You know, our kids are friends. And so I recognized that I was guilty. Like, I had done something. I needed to own it after that happened. And I pled. I'm very involved in our Miami community. I sit on a lot of boards. I'm very active politically. And it was very important to me that nobody read of about it, you know, in the paper. I didn't know if there'd be a press release. I didn't want anybody to gossip about it. So I actively called, like, 200 people in my life. Politicians and managing partners of law firms and executive directors of nonprofits, and my friends and family, and my kids. Friends, parents, and my kids teachers. Like, I literally called my community people that Knew me that could, that knew my history and my character. And I picked up the phone and called them and told them. And like I remember one of my friends said, rashmi, you stood naked and exposed for the entire world to judge you. And we did. And we got to see ourselves in you. We got to see that this could have happened to us. And that, you know, but for the grace of God, like I've said before, go I. And so that experience taught me that people are very forgiving of our humanity when we give them a chance. And we convince ourselves as young kids and young adults that we have to live this perfection. We have to live in this aura of, you know, social media is terrible for us right now. I think it leads people to believe that there's like this perfect life that we're living and it's actually in our imperfections, in our mess, that we become role models for others. Right. And people can learn. We all learn and grow. I think that's how we create community. We learn and grow together through our struggles. And so I. From those 200 calls, there was almost about 182, not almost. The judge got 182 letters of support. Actually, Jeff, you've never seen them. I'll show em to you. It's a binder. Here's the binder. Wow. These are all the letters that the judge received to support me. And
- [18:36]
B
you know, did that make an impact in the sentencing?
- [18:39]
A
It did, because part of what a judge's responsibility is to acknowledge the defendant's history and character. And so these letters were stories of people that have known me many since childhood. And they shared stories about me that I didn't even remember on how I had impacted and influenced them in a positive way or touched their lives in a way that has stayed with him 40 years later. Right. And so the judge got to see me as somebody who's like a. Somebody committed to my community. I sat on all sorts of boards. I'm very committed to my children. I'm a really good, loyal friend, you know, and I think all of that mattered. I also, in my sentencing hearing, I stood up and I gave my apology. And I think that that was also really important. So I apologize to my judge, I apologize to my community. Because on the day of my sentencing, there were 182 people that came. Like all of those people came to my hearing. Oh, wow. It was a hot Tuesday, June morning. And they came and they sat and they supported me and they showed the judge that they unconditionally loved me. Even though they knew I was about to go to prison or likely go to prison. And that experience was very humbling.
- [19:55]
B
I'd love to just understand a little bit deeper about the guarantees that were being provided. And because from a context perspective now I've done a lot of real estate closings and there's always little incentives that you try to do to get people to close. So what was it about the guarantees that made it across the line? And was it across the line because there was a, a lender involved and the lender wasn't aware of the guarantee?
- [20:20]
A
Yeah, so I'll walk you through it. The seller was giving the buyer. So if, if, if John Smith is a seller and Jeff Duden's the buyer, John says to Jeff, hey, Jeff, I will give you a two year rental guarantee. I have a management management company that will, will make sure that your unit is rented. You won't have to worry about renting it. We'll make sure you get that rental payment every month so you don't have to worry about, and you'll have money for your mortgage payment. So at closing, what was happening? So there was this rental guarantee document right at closing. What was happening was the funds. Then the seller created a trust, a land trust. So the way the funds were flowing from my escrow was the portion of the rental guarantee for two years, let's say it's $72,000, would flow from the seller to the trustee of the trust to the management company. Okay. Now that beneficiary interest disbursement was being shown on the HUD. The problem was that, and there were two types of HUDs. One it was showing, one it was not showing. And all of this was like approved by my underwriter. So I just assumed it was fine. The problem was, is that what was not being disclosed and I did not in the moment think I needed to disclose it. Now I know I was wrong was I knew that the buyer, you, Jeff, were getting a financial benefit at some point. And it's my responsibility as a lawyer, technically for the lender, because these were all, you know, loans, close loans. My responsibility to the lender is if I know that there's some sort of financial benefit going to the buyer, I have a responsibility to disclose that to the lender. And even though, so the justification, because look, this is what happens, we get trapped in rationalizing and justifying our decisions. So the justifying that was happening in my mind was all that matters for the lender to know is what's flowing in and out of my Escrow. Right. And that was showing my ins and out of my escrow reflected the settlement statement perfectly. And they had a copy. The ones where there was a trust document involved, they had the trust document so they could see where that money was going. What I was not sending them was the rental guarantee document I was not sending. And I did not tell them that down the road. And ended. What ended up happening was it wasn't just the buyer getting a benefit. There was realtors getting benefits, mortgage brokers getting benefits additionally, outside of what they're supposed to get.
- [22:47]
B
Okay, so the deal closes. No harm, no foul. The money is technically coming from the seller. It's not coming from the bank. It's coming out of seller proceeds.
- [22:58]
A
Correct.
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B
So technically, I mean, there should be no harm, no foul. But I can only assume that the reason that this came up some two years later is because we went into 2006, 2007, 2008, and some of these loans went bad.
- [23:12]
A
Yeah, it wasn't even two years later. It was seven years later.
- [23:15]
B
Okay, so. So the loans went bad. Now, to. To bring an action against somebody like you, is it. Was it the lenders that said when they looked. When they. When they went forensic and they did the forensic accounting, they found this and then they. Then they took it to the government and they sent the government after you, or was the government looking to make an example?
- [23:36]
A
No, this is what's so crazy about it. In the process of these 200 closings, there was a realtor in, sorry, mortgage broker in Tampa who committed identity theft.
- [23:47]
B
Oh.
- [23:48]
A
And he. There was one person whose name I believed he lived in Tampa. There was another person who lived in California. I have no idea where this guy got the identity, like, documentation, but he communicated with the seller and the realtors and did the whole transactions. And he was in Tampa and he was a mortgage broker. So when it came time for closing, I used still use mobile closers all the time because, you know, buyers were buying spec from Iowa and New Jersey. And so I would use this company, America's Best Closers. And so when I put it on the settlement statement, he said, well, I have a notary in my office. Can I just use my notary? So there would be no reason for me to question that he's the mortgage broker on the file. So we sent him all the documentation, the closing documents to his office. His office provided us signed documents, copies of copies of the driver's license, notarized, everything. Everything was notarized properly. We submitted it to the lender. It passed and we closed it. It funded two years go by, and these two individuals now whose identity have been. Have been stolen. Or maybe it was. Yeah, it was probably two or three years get served with foreclosure papers. Well, because they don't even know they own a unit. No mortgage has been paid on these loans in their name. And why would this mortgage broker do that? Well, he was taking that money, that rental guarantee money for himself. Because part of what ended up happening was ultimately the seller was not doing it in monthly payments. He was just giving a lump sum payment to the buyers.
- [25:16]
B
Okay.
- [25:17]
A
And that email was talking about the attachment that I did not open. That attachment was showing that. And I just didn't open it to know that. So the guy in California gets served with foreclosure papers, and he's like, I don't. I've never bought this property. I don't know what we're talking about. The property was located in Tampa. So he called the U.S. attorney in Tampa. And that's kind. And that. Who forwards? The FBI. FBI started an investigation, and that's how it started.
- [25:43]
B
Got it. So it was somebody else's fraud that just. That really pulled the thread that led to this being discovered, or if not for that, it probably would have never been uncovered.
- [25:56]
A
I think that's correct.
- [25:57]
B
Isn't that crazy? Isn't that absolutely crazy that none of this would have happened and you wouldn't have the great life that you have right now?
- [26:04]
A
It's true. People ask me all the time, like, what would you do if you could go back and change what happened? And I always say, like, I wish I could have gone back and made better decisions and not been a contributor to the 2009 crisis, but I wouldn't take away this experience because I am such a better human being today. I've learned so much, and I'm happier than I ever thought I could be. And what I. It's like I found my right. Like, I do what I do because I know I am positively creating an impact in the world. And that's, I believe, God's mission for me in this life. And so I live that fully every day because I. I promise you, I could go to a headhunter any day because I get calls all the time. And I could go work for a company and make a lot more money than I do now, but I don't. I know I would not be as fulfilled. So I'm following my passion.
- [26:53]
B
One more question about the process you shared when you said you were prejudicing yourself so for Those of us out there who are looking forward to the FBI walking into our office one day and starting asking us questions.
- [27:04]
A
Yeah.
- [27:05]
B
When you're prejudicing yourself, you're basically. They have a thesis and they're starting to ask you questions. And your answers to those questions, you might as well be under oath. Because if you're answering yes or you're answering no, basically you're. That's right. That's the testimony right there is that.
- [27:23]
A
That's right. And they.
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B
Do you understand that?
- [27:25]
A
Well, I did not understand it at the time. Now I do because, like, it's. It's so fascinating to me because I have now since been able to go back and look at. Or no, actually, I could never look at those actual witness statements that they had made. Not witness statements, FBI. It's like an FBI report summary of that meeting. But I have heard about it from the prosecutor now, because the prosecutor and I are. Are good friends and we now speak together and we've learned a lot from each other. And he has shared with me that. That. That meeting and that that four hours was really instrumental because he also believes that I basically dug myself into a hole because there was a couple of things that happened in that meeting. One, Right. I kept saying no, and I kept convincing myself I hadn't done anything wrong. Two, there was a point in time where my dad, who at the time then was my business partner and a lawyer also. I mean, he's a. Litigation came in and it was like half an hour left in that four hours. So he, I. He like, came in from a meeting, like into. Came back into the office, and obviously the Receptionist said, the FBI's in with Rush me. He freaked out. He came in and joined me for like the last half hour. Hour. So then it was like another layer of me digging myself into the hole. Cause now I am the apple of my dad's eye. I'm his business partner, managing partner. And I'm now creating a narrative around what did or did not happen in front of my father that psychologically, Joe, my prosecutor, believes I wasn't willing to unravel. Once I created it, it was very hard to go back on it in front of my dad and say, you know, and so, you know, that was 2011. It took until 2014 when my friend and attorney had the very hard conversation in front of my parents to help me to unravel all that. Right. And so, so there's. And. And we. I think it's very easy to think that we can fix things. Right. Like you know, I'm smart. I can. I'm a fixer. I'm a doer. I, like, I. I can figure this out. And that there was a lot of that happening throughout this process for me. And it's hard because there's a lot of cognitive biases that we get caught in. So one of them that I talk a lot about now is called overconfidence bias. And overconfidence bias is this cognitive bias, the thought process. And what happens is you believe yourself to be smart or you're so confident in your skills or your. Your ability or your. You believe you're such a good person that you believe you could never do anything wrong. Like what? I'm a. I am involved in my community, and I'm a great mother and a great daughter and a wonderful wife. And, like, you know, I had this great law firm. I couldn't. I would never do anything wrong. And what happens is you lack a sense of any moral awareness or moral judgment when you get caught in this bias. And it simply takes the awareness to know that any one of us, on any given moment, could make a bad decision. It's called moral humility. And that all of these principles I've only learned since I've come home because I had to understand, how did I go so off path? But, yeah.
- [30:38]
B
What was your sentencing like?
- [30:40]
A
Oh, gosh, my sentencing was scary, emotional. I. Well, so what I remember, like, walking up to the federal courthouse, and there was, you know, like I mentioned, right? There were so many people that were there, but there was this, like, long line of people to get into the courthouse that morning. And I'm thinking to myself, oh, my God, I'm going to be late to my own sentencing. And as it turns out, they were all there for me. As I got closer to the. To that line, they had, like, I had college friends fly in and drive in from out of the country that morning, out of the state that morning.
- [31:16]
B
Boy, they really wanted to see you go down.
- [31:21]
A
You know, just to be able to be there to show me their love was such a beautiful, like, showing of love. Like, I don't know. Some people are like, God, how did you have so many people come? And I'm like, I don't know. There's nothing special about me, but I have spent a career and life dedicated to being, like, selfless and authentic in how I build relationships. And I just come from a place of, like, I just want to get to know you. I want to learn from you. I want to grow and understand where you come From, I mean, Jeff, I've been like this with you, right? Like understanding your perspective and how you've grown or how you've committed to, you know, your, your company. So anyway, so I got up to the sentencing, so something very interesting happened. And I write about this in my book. But, um. So have you ever been in a federal courtroom?
- [32:07]
B
Yes.
- [32:08]
A
Okay. So do you know, like when you walk, there's like a double door and then there's another double door, but in between there's two rooms on either side. Right, right. And it's for the prosecution and the defense. So I was in the defense room with my attorneys and they were like giving me last minute, you know, we were going over my allocution, which is my apology, and we were just going over last minute things for me to be prepared for. And all of a sudden the door opens and in walks the prosecutor, my prosecutor, Joe, into the defense room. Now this is a very unusual, unheralded thing, right? But over the course of that, let's say nine months from when I decided to plead guilty, when I first met Joe, to when I. Well, I first met Joe on the day I got indicted in April. That doesn't count. I think about meeting him on the day that I decided to plead guilty, like have the conversation with him. And so in that nine months, I had spent countless hours with him going over documents. I became the government's main witness against the other co defendant, which was the developer's right hand guy. And we became friends. Like, I developed this. Such a beautiful respect for him because I recognized, like, he was just doing his job. And the documents showed what the documents showed was enough for him to come after me. He wasn't like, he didn't have like a personal vendetta against me.
- [33:25]
B
Right.
- [33:26]
A
Um, I mean, is it unfair that I'm the one person, it feels like in Miami that went to prison for some, for this involvement in a mortgage related fraud? In some ways it does. Right. There were 500 other attorneys in Miami alone doing what I was doing. But I don't, like, I don't harp on that. I believe, like I've said, I believe this was God's purpose for me or the universe's purpose for me. And so when he walked in, he basically came up to me, gave me this huge bear hug. He said, no matter what happens in there, you're gonna be okay. I know you will. And that was David. When I turned, like, Joe walked out. David.
- [34:01]
B
Very unusual.
- [34:02]
A
Oh, David was like, in my 30 years of doing this, I've never had that happen. That's such a testament to you. And I think it's just sort of how I've always like, I don't harbor animosity. I've just lived this life of like, forgiveness and understanding and a spiritual kind of place. Anyway, in the hearing, the all. Every seat was taken with people there to support me. I stood up and apologized. When the government, when the judge sentenced me. Oh, there was a sentencing video that we had made that was like 14 people on video attesting to my character. And it was really emotional. Like everyone was crying. And when the judge sentenced me, it was like time stopped. Right. It was like everything held for a second. I couldn't believe it because of course we were asking for house arrest. And the idea of being taken away from my children felt like the world was ending.
- [35:02]
B
Were you trying, did you try to get a lockdown, a deal based on your support and help that you were giving them after the guilty plea?
- [35:11]
A
Yeah. So because of my support, what we, what I, what the prosecutor agreed to was a five year maximum.
- [35:19]
B
Okay.
- [35:19]
A
So the sentencing guidelines would have allowed the judge to give me up to 20 still because. So the plea deal that we worked out was that the judge would only be limited to five year max. So 60 months then, because I had assisted Joe and I was. Not just because of that, but given that I spent so much time and I really went above and beyond in assisting the government. Joe filed what's called a 5K one, which is a downward departure motion, which allowed the judge to then veer away from the sentencing guidelines and then basically could do whatever he wanted to do. And we knew that Joe was going to file that and so. Or not file it like he has to stand up in the sentencing hearing and, and asked for a 5K one. And then when, when my defense stood up, we asked, we. Our argument was for house arrest, that there was no, there was no substantial value or positive result to come from taking me away from my children and then the taxpayer dollars that it would take to house me. And you know, there was all sorts of arguments and cost analysis stuff that we did. And I mean, at the end of the day, when he stood up and sentenced me, he sentenced me to a year and a day in prison. And I just remember collapsing and just crying hysterically. And Joe again walked up to me and said, you're going to be okay. You know, my, all my family was trying to hover around me. And it's not that I was scared for me because I'm pretty strong But I was so scared for my kids,
- [36:56]
B
you know, and they were 9 and 10 at the time.
- [36:58]
A
They were 9 and 10. Yeah. Yeah.
- [37:04]
B
Tough, tough day. And I assume all those hours that you put in helping Joe non billable.
- [37:11]
A
Yeah. No, by that point, I had already given up my bar license. I had to give up my. I did a volunteer revocation on my bar license.
- [37:20]
B
Can you get over. Get it back?
- [37:22]
A
So in 2019, I was eligible to get it back. The problem is in Florida. So part of my. I had a three. So I had one year and one day incarceration. I had three years supervised released. I had 200 hours of community service. And then I had a restitution judgment against me. I mean, I can tell you what it was, but it was 190 times what I made. So I made about $100,000 in the course of, you know, 15 months. So just extrapolate out what I owe. Okay. One hundred and ninety times. And so Florida passed a law in 2016. Well, there was a law that got passed, I think, from the Constitution that said that ex felons can now vote again. Florida was one of four states that didn't allow that. So that there was a, like, ballot. There was a constitutional amendment on the ballot. It was amendment four. It passed by 68% or something crazy. But then the legislature passed a law subsequent to that that said that, oh, wait, if you are an ex felon, you still can't vote and restore your civil rights if you owe any money in any way from your case. So penalties, fines, restitution. Well, my restitution is $19 million. Clearly, I still owe. I mean, you know, I'm chipping away at it every month, still 10 years later. But, you know, to date, I've paid over 500, and I made a hundred. They garnish all my tax refunds. They've garnished all my IRAs, you know, and so. Oh, that's.
- [38:50]
B
That's worse than the prison time.
- [38:53]
A
Yeah. I can't own an asset. I can't get out a loan. The cars are in. You know, my parents have to buy it for me. It's. It's hard. And so I. I could technically apply to the Florida bar, but. But I. I mean, I. Technically, because of the time that expired in 2019, but I can't, because in order to apply to the Florida bar, you have to have your civil rights restored. And I have not restored my civil rights because I'm not allowed to. Because in order to restore my civil rights, this law does not let Me restore my civil rights. So the answer to your question is yes, eventually I could, if I ever pay off 19 million and. Or I have applied for a pardon. There was a pardon in process from 2020 through 2024, and actually it had been approved by the pardon office. There's all sorts of reasons why I know we had gotten approved. I have very close ties. I had very close ties to the White House in different ways. And so I had it confirmed that Ed Siskel, the White House counsel, had approved it. It was flagged, ready for President Biden's signature. It was on his desk by January 19, January 20, 1159 came and went, and I did not get a call. And it turns out There were about 20 of our files, 20 files sitting on his desk that he just never signed. So now my file is sitting in purgatory somewhere in the White House in the pardon office ethos. And I have not pursued it right now. I mean, I have two pardon attorneys that have done it pro bono. They're top attorneys in D.C. they reached out to me after reading my Washington Post article. That's how this whole thing started, which is pretty amazing. And worked on it diligently, like, for four years. Right. And then got it approved, and then it just didn't get signs. It was like, when I tell you I was gutted on January. Like, gutted.
- [40:48]
B
Right.
- [40:49]
A
January 20, 2025. Because I thought for sure, you know, this restitution's going away. I can live my life again. I can vote again. Like, I can't vote because of this. So we'll see. There's a lot of reasons that I. There's a lot of things I could do right now if I wanted to. And I'm. I'm not inclined to do it right now because to me, I'm, like, all about integrity and ethics and authenticity. And I don't think that the manner in which I would have to go about doing this doesn't feel right to me. It's fine if others want to do it. It just doesn't feel right to me. So I'm. I'm just being intentional about where I put those efforts. So we'll see.
- [41:26]
B
Let's. Let's talk about what you did as a reaction to this. You've had TED Talks early on. You decided to make a career in ethics, and you've really resurrected a great career and a great reputation, and you've done incredible things. Talk to me about how you made the decision to pursue the things that you're pursuing now and tell Me what you're doing?
- [41:56]
A
Yeah, it's crazy. So when I came home from prison, the first thing I did was debrief with my family and my children and just like soaked it all in. And as I began to see friends and see my attorney and, you know, cause he's a friend, people started to say, God, Rashmi, the way you approach this, which was from such a place of peace, because as I was going through this process, before I even went to prison, I came to a place of peace of, I don't know why this is happening, God, but I'm trusting that it's for my good. So, you know, there's a saying, it's not happening to you, it's happening for you. And that became like a mantra for me. It took me a while to actually sort of like. It was like a seed in my head. And then it finally kind of took root. And so by the time I surrendered to prison, which was not until the summer after, so it was like nine months later, I got to a place where I felt like, I'm going to treat this like a positive experience as much as I can. So I read every day, I prayed every day, I worked out every day. I. I had a job. And so when I came home, friends started to say, like, you should really share your story. It's really powerful. It's really inspirational. It's so positive. So I began. The first thing I did was I started to apply for TEDx talks. And I kept getting rejected. And I think I, like, I didn't even know what I was doing. You know, I just was like, oh, this happened to me, or this happened in my life. Not happened to me. And so then I. Ultimately, I got selected. In the process of getting selected, I, like, went up to Columbia Law School and I had told the people at Columbia, I said, if I can help even one law student, never make the same mistake. That's everything to me. That's my pay it forward. I just want to share my story. So that's how it started. Then that professor shared it with somebody at nyu. Then that person shared it with somebody else. And so word began to spread. I started getting asked to do talks. And in the process, the judge in my case. Oh, the probation officer in my case, because I kept having to ask for approval to travel. And so at one point, the probation officer was like, well, what do you mean? You're speaking and sharing your story? So then she took that. She took it to the judge. The judge then said, because then I had people wanting to start Paying me, like to speak, right. And I was starting to sign contracts for at the time, it was small amounts like 4,000, 5,000. And the judge then ruled at a hearing that he did not want me to make money from sharing my story while I was on probation. So he said, you know, I understand that what you're doing is, is helping the world, and it must be very hard, and I'm proud of you for doing it, but I'm not, I don't want you to make any money yet doing that.
- [44:24]
B
But would they not take the money and for restitution?
- [44:27]
A
So my prosecutor called in from D.C. and that was his argument. Like, as she makes more money, then she can pay more money back to restitution. He, he didn't take that. Um, so I had to make the decision in that three years of probation, was I going to continue to speak as I got invitations or not? And I made the decision. I truly believe that if the opportunity was coming to me, that that was my pay it forward. And I had an obligation to the universe to share the story and help others. And so that's what I did. So in those three years, I probably, I, I, I estimate I did about 300 speeches for free, or I waived my fee. You know, they pay my cost. But it gave me such a great understanding of the market of, you know, what, what stories work, what don't work, how to be funny, how not to be funny, how to make it impactful. And then I really understood that. I always tell people, like, hey, none of you are going to go to prison. But what I know is all of us are faced with these moments of pressure and speed and, like, how do we make those decisions? And when we do go through a crisis or struggle or, like, right now, we're all in uncertainty. When we go through those moments, the answer is not to crumble and collapse. The answer is rise through those moments and come out strong on the other side. So what does that process look like? And I kind of, like, went back into my. I did a review, deconstructed my, like, the whole process of all these years, and realized that I had been doing that. I did these things right. I learned how to reframe. I learned how to, like, lean on my people, and I learned how to surrender and let go. And I learned how to then evolve through slow things. So that process now became rise, that I, I was able to go back and reflect and be like, this is what I was doing. So I put it into a framework, and I share that now. And I also Share something called the Clarity loop, which is like four questions we can ask ourselves to make those better decisions, to continue to rise as leaders and humans. So, um, it's been a journey, you know, being in the space that I'm in, which is a speaking meeting and event space. It's very saturated. There's a lot of speakers out there that, you know, want to do this. And I, I every day remind myself, like, I'll get on the stages and get to work with clients who are meant to hear and, and benefit from my thought leadership and my, my message and my words and. Yeah, but it's running a business. Just like anything else, we all find
- [46:52]
B
ourselves in gray areas from time to time. And I did. I wanted to ask you what fundamentals or tools you have. So as we find ourselves in gray areas, just to check in with ourselves and to see if we're getting ready to breach ethics that matter to us or ethics that could get us in trouble. Because at the end of the day, you know, when you're in business, you always seem like you're on the tightrope of this gray area. Right? And it's like, is it sales or is it misleading? You know, like, I mean, you know, is it. Is it puffery in marketing or is it lying? And, you know, it's just, it's. It's. You're. You're in this constant gray area because you're trying to win. But sometimes to win, maybe somebody else has to lose. I mean, I guess there's win, wins and all of that. But is the Clarity loop a tool that helps people if they're in a gray area, to stop and set a beat and just I, you know, maybe check in and see where they are?
- [47:51]
A
Yes. It's interesting because when I came home, one of the first things I started to think about is how did I let myself go so off path? How did I let myself fall into a place where I did make. I took these shortcuts and I made these decisions that I should have questioned, I should have thought through. And so as. And I was like, what if I. What if I had had a process to make those, you know, clear decisions to think through some of these principles that I've sort of researched over the last decade. So the Clarity Loop is four questions. And I'm going to tell you what they are, because what's fascinating about these four questions is they're very simple. But within the four questions are behavioral ethics and decision making principles and philosophies that we need to all be thinking about. And it's embedded into the question. So the first question is, how are you? What are you feeling right now? Because what happens is there's, there's an event that happens. Somebody tells you something, you get an email and immediately you have a feeling. Uh, so the. I'll, I'll take you through it from the example of a, an executive, a client that I just worked with on this. So there's a leadership group that I was working with after the, like, it was a facilitation that I did for three hours. At the end of it, one of the leaders comes up to me and says, so I'm in a situation, I was trying to land this really, really big client. And this would have been like a life, like year changing client, right. Significant revenue, ongoing business. And he real, he had learned that morning of our session that his competitor got the client instead. And so what he knows is that the competitor misrepresented outcomes, you know, sort of unethically was, was representing revenue and, and, and clearly was doing things that are arguably wrong. And so this executive I'm working with says he starts reeling like, well, if that's how it's going to be done, then I guess that's what I'm going to have to do. So I can not lose another client. Because loss aversion is a thing none of us want to lose. Client.
- [49:50]
B
That's right.
- [49:50]
A
Or potential client and. Com. When you're in competition, you're running a business. That's where we think. Right. And so I was like, okay, let's slow down, you know, because this guy was like rigid tight. Like you can see in his shoulders, right? He's super upset. And so I said, okay, let's just, let's Let me ask you a question. What? So I ran through this clarity loop. Okay, question one. What are you feeling right now? It was like, I'm angry, I'm frustrated. I'm, I'm, I'm in some ways jealous. Like I don't understand and I feel like I'm gonna lose out again if I. No, sorry, we didn't get there yet. So at first he just said, this is what I'm feeling. I was like, okay, good. So question one brings you to awareness of what you're feeling. Cause we get emotionally, Our emotions regulate and activate us in many ways. So if we can control that. And first just be aware of what's the emotion. I never asked myself what I was feeling. My fear was desperation. I've got to feed my kids. I've got to make My payroll, I need a client. Right? That's what I was feeling, But I never had anybody walk me through a process. Second question is, what story am I telling myself right now? Because we have a narrative that we play in our head and stories that we convince ourselves. And it's in the form of rationalizations, assumptions, justifications. You know, this is how it's always been done. This is what my competitor is doing. So his story was, if I don't do what my competitor is doing, I'm going to keep losing clients. That was his story. I was like, well, is it true that there's only two options? Is there always just a. Because it's a false binary in our head, Is it true that there's only one way or the other? Cheat or cheat or win? He was like, well, no. I said, okay, so what happens if there's other options available to you? Like, what if you broke down that story, Right? So when you start considering the story you're telling yourself, you're recognizing your overconfidence bias. Because the overconfidence bias says to you, if he can do it, well, then I could do it, and I can manage that risk fine. Like, I'm a smart guy. I know I can handle the risk. Also the way he's handling it, or I'm smart, I'll do it the right way. Or if he's doing it, I can do it right. So there's all of these justifications that we find. Third question is, what matters most here? So this is where we start thinking about taking account. No, this is where we start thinking about essentially our core values and the consequences of what we're doing. So are we thinking about, like, if I do this, am I violating a core principle that I have a core value tenant personally or my company? So you take into consideration and reflect on your core values as you make this decision. And then the fourth question is, can I own this later?
- [52:28]
B
Right?
- [52:29]
A
So that is the most important, hardest question, right? If this shows up on the COVID page of the newspaper or on tv, or my board finds out about it, or my kids find out about it, am I okay with that?
- [52:42]
B
Yeah. Can you stand up in a court of law and say this without.
- [52:45]
A
And you start thinking about accountability and moral humility. So moral humility is the idea that on any given day, in any given moment, I could potentially make a bad decision, given the stressors, influences, pressures, competition that I have in my life. And none of us wanna believe that we could make a bad decision. Like, we're not that I'M not that person. You know, I'm not you. And that's the trap, right? That is when our cognitive overload causes our brain to narrow and we start thinking, oh, no, no, I would never do that. And the truth is, that is the biggest. I call it the prison of our mind. It's the, the biggest prison of our mind that we don't even realize we're stuck in. So, yes, that is how the Clarity loop answers your better decision framework.
- [53:29]
B
What are you finding? And are you actively working with the universities, with your law students today?
- [53:35]
A
Oh, that's a good question. When I work with law students, I do it gratis, because I think for law students, it's law students, business school students, college students, even prep school students. Sharing my story is something that I feel is so valuable. I just did it actually. Where my daughter plays college, plays volleyball. I had another event like, 20 minutes away, so I went in and I shared my story, and I obviously made it relevant to college students, because I think college students today, graduate students today, are faced with so much pressure and social media is creating so much angst and anxiety around so many things. And the day I was there, a kid had committed suicide a week before a freshman. And I wanted them to know, like, I was you guys. Like, I was the high achiever, had to get all the awards, get all the grades, get the best jobs. You know, that was me. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with setting goals and having ambition, but you have to cut yourself some grace and find that balance and know that you are loved for who you are. You are not loved because of what you achieve. And that was a learning I have had in the last decade because totally my self worth, my self love, was rooted in what I accomplished, not who I was. And so that's something that I think is a really important lesson.
- [54:57]
B
How do you think about the concept of freedom before and after being incarcerated?
- [55:01]
A
It's such a good question, Jeff. So this is one I believe I had to lose my freedom to gain complete freedom. And by that I mean I had spent, like I said, my whole life believing I had to be this, like, image of a perfect little girl. And that meant I, I, I never allowed myself to be vulnerable, never allowed myself to ask questions, never allowed to show that weak side of myself. And yes, I'm very strong, and I'm very proud of that. But when we believe that, we have to always armor up, right? There's a sense that we're not free because we feel like we have to be in this armor. And, you know, Brene Brown talks about this a lot. Who. And I read all her stuff when I was in prison and all this stuff. And so now when I say I had to lose my freedom because I was taken into a literal prison, I believe we're all trapped in our own invisible prisons. It's like just destroying values in our companies and all the other things. But I had to get taken to a federal prison and get locked behind, you know, fences or whatever to recognize that I can live in total freedom now in my life. And so that means I live in total vulnerability. I, for good or badge, wear my heart on my sleeve. And I. That has been such an incredible awakening for me. And like, when, like we were saying earlier, I wouldn't go back and take this experience away from me because I have grown so much as a human, and I'm so grateful for that, honestly.
- [56:33]
B
That's a great perspective. So from. From today to the end of your life, and if at the end of your life, you could look back and say, I'm proud or I'm thankful that I accomplished this one thing, what would be that one thing for my whole life from this point forward? Play the ball from where you lie from right now. If you're going to look backwards 20 years back and you're going to say, I'm proud I accomplished this, what would that one thing be? Or it could be a goal.
- [57:08]
A
So I, you know, when I think about my legacy, which I talk about a lot, I always believe. I believe that my legacy is it will be that I have allowed and given people the courage and conviction to know that even when they're in the thick of darkness and struggle and facing all those moments that we're all stuck in right now, whether it's change, uncertainty, fear, all those things that no matter what darkness we're going through, we can have the faith and belief to know that light is on the other side of it. And when we know that it's there, we just have to continue to go through the mess, through the darkness, to get to the other side, because I stand for that. Like, that is how I live my life. My. I'm. My life is a perfect example of that. And I know that when I stand on these stages and I work with clients, like, I know people are getting that from me, and that courage. And that, to me, is really special. And so whether that means they're learning the rise framework or how to make better decisions through the clarity loop, whatever framework they're learning, the greater like, thing is, like, we're all gonna go through stuff, man. We are. We're all. It just looks differently for all of us. And so, you know, I don't. I think we are all in. In a place, at some point in our lives, we're gonna face something hard, traumatic, painful. And so when we go through those moments we have, I know that I stand as an example that you can come out and still smile on the other side of it and be a loving mother and daughter and all those things.
- [58:50]
B
Is your book out yet?
- [58:52]
A
My book comes out May 19. So for those of you that are hearing it before or after, it's available on every possible site. Barnes and Noble Books, a million Porchlight, Amazon.
- [59:01]
B
It's 2026, right?
- [59:02]
A
May 19, 2026. It's called All Rise. A Lawyer's Evolution from Prison to Purpose.
- [59:10]
B
Okay. What's one or two things that's in the book that we haven't talked about here today?
- [59:17]
A
Well, I have lots of great prison stories.
- [59:19]
B
Okay.
- [59:20]
A
Women I met, experiences I had hustles that women were running in prison. I have very fun prison hacks that I learned. They're four prison recipes of things that we were able to make from commissary and maybe things that we took from the chow hall. So that's one I used to pass
- [59:38]
B
off ketchup as spaghetti sauce to my kids is that, you know, they never bought it.
- [59:45]
A
That's not one of the prison hacks. But. But, yeah, we didn't really have ketchup. So that wasn't like, I mean, there was ketchup in the chow hall. So.
- [59:52]
B
All right.
- [59:53]
A
You didn't have to buy ketchup in commissary.
- [59:56]
B
Well, my kids have said living with me is like living in prison, but doubtful.
- [60:01]
A
Doubtful. And then I would say the second thing that from my book is there's a lot of. In every chapter, there's leadership lessons and reflective questions that I have tied to, you know, the moments that I went through and how it directly affects leaders in their moments. And like, I've shown examples of different leaders I've worked with in the last decade and how they've applied various principles that I'm talking about. So those are probably the two things that we haven't talked about.
- [60:28]
B
Awesome. May 19, 2026. All rise.
- [60:32]
A
All rise.
- [60:33]
B
And you're going to be doing it. I'm sure you'll be doing a speaker tour with it.
- [60:36]
A
I am. I'm in the process of figuring out what that looks like. And, you know, which city should I go Visit and which bookstores. So the first one is May 19, actually, here in Miami in Coral Gables at Books and Books. If any of your listeners are here in Miami.
- [60:49]
B
Awesome. And can we get that. Can we get an advanced copy right now on Amazon? Is it selling yet?
- [60:54]
A
You can order on Amazon. It won't be released till May 19, but I'm happy to send you an advanced copy. You'll be getting one anyway since you have endorsed it. As soon as I get a hard copy, which should be in the next few weeks.
- [61:04]
B
Yeah, I went to get more information about it on Chat GPT and it said this book is endorsed by Jeff Duden. So I'm like, oh, well, there you go.
- [61:15]
A
You know why? Because it's on. All the endorsements are now on Amazon. But you are in good company. You are with Jeff Hoffman and Verne Harnisch and Marshall Goldsmith and Molly Bloom, Vivek Murthy, all sorts of really epic like Ray Allen, NBA hall of Famer Alonzo Mourning, Andrew Davis, who's the current chief people officer for Sony Music. Damian Atkins, who's former general counsel for Hershey's and now general counsel for Mr. Beast. YouTube. Yeah. Fun, really relevant and. And like from all different walks of life and different bubbles and different, you know, industries. So, yeah, I'm. I feel very blessed.
- [61:57]
B
It's an honor to be included in that list. I can't wait to get a copy of the book. And it's been an honor to be your friend all these years.
- [62:04]
A
Oh, Jeff, thank you so much. I have so much respect for you and the work you do and who you are as. I think just as a human as you show up for others. So I'm really grateful to. To you.
- [62:13]
B
Awesome. Couple of questions here. I've got a curveball and then I've. Then we're going to finish with a fastball right down the middle.
- [62:21]
A
Okay.
- [62:22]
B
All right. But before we do that, tell people the best way to get in touch with you.
- [62:26]
A
Yeah, great. So my email is rushme aaron.com, which is r A S H M I last name A I, R A N. I'm sure it'll be in your show notes as well. Rush. Com. My website is also rushme aaron.com. i'm on pretty much all the socials, actually. I'm not on X, but other. Everything else But X. So LinkedIn, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, it's all basically Rushmy Aaron or Rush Me Aaron Speaker. So I'm easy to find.
- [62:53]
B
Yep. Incredible Speaker. Anybody out there who needs somebody for their Event that's impactful and fun. My highest recommendation to reach out to you.
- [63:01]
A
Thanks. Thanks, John.
- [63:02]
B
Yep. All right, here's the curveball. You see a lot of things in the travel that you do. If you were gonna start a business today, and it can't be something that you're currently doing, where do you see the opportunity in the market to start a business? What would you do? Gun to your head. You have to start. You have to start a business in the next 30 days.
- [63:20]
A
Oh, my gosh, that's so unfair. I think I would start. Okay. Actually, this is something I'm dealing with right now as women. We are. When we're traveling and I don't wanna check a bag, I have this idea, like, I'm about to travel next week for a week. I would love a service that allows me to send a suitcase, let's say, to a location, and then when I don't need it from that one location, it gets sent back home. But I have one carry on that then goes to the following three locations so that I don't have to check a bug.
- [63:53]
B
Okay. What a convenience.
- [63:54]
A
I mean, you asked about travel, you brought up travel. So for me, that is a very real. And I think most of us, as women deal with it more because we have toiletries and hair products and makeup and. And shoes and, like, it just. It's very hard to travel and carry on. I'm traveling for seven nights next week, and I'm trying to figure out how to do that in a carry on.
- [64:10]
B
Yeah. Okay, well, that. That's, you know, it. I. We can send a letter across the country for 42 cents. We can ship something overnight for $20. They should be able to figure this out.
- [64:21]
A
Yeah. I mean, clearly, I could send a box, right? I could send a box by FedEx and then figure out how to send it back. But there should be some service that provides this.
- [64:29]
B
Yeah. All right. What a great idea. Okay, last question. Fastball straight down the middle. If you had one sentence to make an impact in somebody's life, what would that be?
- [64:42]
A
No matter the struggle, the fear, the uncertainty, the darkness that you're in, there will be light on the other side of it.
- [64:50]
B
Perfectly said. We'll end it right there. Rashmi. Thank you. Thank you, Rashmi.
- [64:55]
A
Thank you so much, Jeff. I really am so grateful and honored that you took the time for me and this was so much fun.
- [65:01]
B
Awesome. All right, everybody, thanks for listening. I'm Jeff Duden. We are here with the incredible Rashmi Aron on the unemployable. Podcast. Thanks for listening.