Podcast Summary: On the Media – "Apocalypse Again" (September 10, 2025)
Host: Brooke Gladstone
Guest: Dorian Lynskey, cultural critic and author of Everything Must Go: The Stories We Tell Ourselves about the End of the World
Theme:
This episode explores the cultural, historical, and psychological obsession with apocalypse narratives—from religious prophecy and literary masterpieces to nuclear fears, climate anxiety, and AI doom. Brooke Gladstone and Dorian Lynskey delve into how “end of the world” stories have evolved, what they reveal about us, and why “apocalypse” remains such a compelling motif in media and society.
Main Discussion Points and Insights
1. Origins of Apocalypse Narratives
[00:25–02:55]
- Early conceptions of the world’s end derive from religious traditions.
- Cyclical views in Hinduism and Buddhism (rebirth, decline, renovation).
- Linear, final-ending view introduced by Zoroaster (Zoroastrianism) and adopted by Judaism and Christianity.
- Dorian Lynskey: "That's a seismic change. The world can actually end, and that is what dominates the Western imagination." [01:50]
- The Book of Revelation:
- Complex, violent imagery (beasts, 666, slaying of sinners).
- Allegorical references to the Roman Empire.
- John of Patmos as an exiled, embittered prophet.
- Lynskey notes most would be surprised Revelation is still cited 2000 years later because it was so specific to its time.
2. The 19th Century and Literary Apocalypses
[02:55–05:08]
- Mary Shelley, Lord Byron, and the “Year Without a Summer” (1816):
- Volcano eruption at Tambora altered climate, inspired literary creation, and apocalyptic atmosphere.
- Byron’s poem Darkness as a landmark in secular, hopeless apocalypse: "Utter bleakness and annihilation, which is just not comprehensible to the Christian mind." [04:44]
3. Modern Science Fiction, Technology, and Human Cause
[05:08–09:39]
- H.G. Wells and The Time Machine: Transition to technological and man-made apocalypse.
- "Wells really begins his career with a vision at the End of the World." [05:14]
- Wells’ innovation: Introduce one bizarre change (e.g., time travel, Martian invasion) into the recognizable world to see human reaction.
- Shifting focus from natural to human-made extinction post-WWI:
- Two-thirds of scenarios pre-1918 were natural disasters; after, human-caused scenarios dominated.
- Concept that new, terrifying weapons (dynamite, gas, atomic bombs) could force peace—proved mistaken.
- The cautionary tale of The Pallid Giant (1927): The only way for superweapons to end war is by ending humanity.
4. The Atomic Age and Cold War Influences
[09:39–11:10]
- On the Beach (1957) by Nevil Shute:
- Explores a world doomed by nuclear fallout—global extinction delivered calmly.
- Emotional focus: "How people would respond to that, how people would feel about imminent extinction. That’s such an important part of end of the world literature." [09:39]
- Dr. Strangelove (1964):
- Black comedy inspired by nuclear logic and real-life strategists (e.g., Herman Kahn).
- Both terrifying and divisive—some saw it as pro-disarmament, others as nihilistic.
5. Contemporary Apocalypses: Pandemic, Climate Change, and Technology
[11:10–21:00]
a. Pandemics
- The real world (from 1918 flu to COVID-19) as fertile ground for apocalyptic thought.
- Best pandemic fiction (Station 11, Earth Abides): Focus on how humanity copes, rebuilds, what values persist.
- Lynskey: "It’s more about what it does to humanity, how it would feel to live through that, and the chances of preserving decent, humane, civilized values, the possibility of rebuilding society." [12:19]
- Critique of the “humanity is the virus” meme: Station 11 as rebuttal, highlighting gratitude for lost wonders.
- "She draws your attention to the things about modern life that we take for granted and that are kind of miraculous." [12:50]
b. Climate Change
- Apocalyptic environmentalism has been present since the 1960s.
- Dire messaging (e.g., “the Earth is on fire”) often backfires, leading to resistance or apathy.
- Unlike nuclear war, climate crisis unfolds slowly, making it challenging for fiction or activism.
- Praise for Kim Stanley Robinson’s hopeful, grounded approach in climate fiction.
c. Robots, AI, and Technological Subjugation
- Roots of the AI apocalypse track back to 1920’s R.U.R., which coined the word "robot."
- Story of robots replacing humans, then destroying humanity—central themes still echoed today.
- HAL (2001: A Space Odyssey) and Skynet (Terminator) as archetypes:
- "HAL did enter the imagination as essentially a killer AI. You get a similar thing with Skynet… Even to this day, AI researchers get tired of people talking about Skynet." [20:10]
- Public anxiety often diverges from the optimism of original creators (Kubrick, Clarke).
6. Reflections on Doom, Hope, and the Present Moment
[20:42–21:34]
- Dorian Lynskey’s concluding thoughts:
- Fears about the “actual end of the world” are likely misplaced—worry more about things getting worse.
- Cautions against “doomerism”: “I don’t think that that is useful and I don’t think it’s morally righteous. There should be some sense of what to appreciate and what to salvage and an awareness of the preciousness of life rather than contemplating the end.” [20:57]
Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
-
On Revelation:
"The man who wrote it, John of Patmos, just seems to be a very angry, vindictive man... it's not about forgiving sinners, it's about slaying them."
– Dorian Lynskey [02:10] -
On Literary Ruin:
"So all of these things are kind of in their heads that the world as we know it can be wiped out."
– Dorian Lynskey [03:18] -
On Postwar Nihilism:
"There was this sense that the end of the world would be caused by our own stupidity and selfishness, that there would be another world war and that it would be final."
– Dorian Lynskey [06:25] -
On Pandemic Literature:
"It's more about what it does to humanity... the chances of preserving decent, humane, civilized values, the possibility of rebuilding society."
– Dorian Lynskey [12:19] -
On Environmental Apocalypse:
"The challenge for writers and filmmakers to turn that into compelling stories mirrored the problems that scientists and activists had trying to tell a compelling story that would lead to action."
– Dorian Lynskey [14:33] -
On AI’s Cultural Impact:
"HAL did enter the imagination as essentially a killer AI. You get a similar thing with Skynet."
– Dorian Lynskey [20:10] -
On Facing the Present:
"I do resist what I call doomerism. I don’t think that that is useful and I don’t think it’s morally righteous."
– Dorian Lynskey [20:57]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Introduction & framing apocalypse in contemporary culture: [00:25]
- Religious origins and Revelation: [01:28–02:55]
- 19th-century literature & apocalyptic events: [02:55–05:08]
- Technological apocalypses (H.G. Wells onward): [05:08–09:39]
- Atomic age anxieties & nuclear fiction: [09:39–11:10]
- Pandemics and their depiction in fiction: [11:32–12:50]
- Climate change in apocalyptic narratives: [14:18–15:49]
- Rise of AI and robot apocalypse stories: [16:46–20:42]
- Host and guest’s concluding reflections: [20:42–21:34]
Tone and Style
- The discussion skillfully blends historical analysis, cultural critique, and literary appreciation—balancing wit, skepticism, and compassion.
- Gladstone's questions are incisive and anchoring; Lynskey’s insights are thoughtful, occasionally sardonic, but ultimately hopeful, warning against despair and advocating for gratitude and resilience.
For Listeners:
If you're fascinated by how humanity's anxieties about the end have evolved—from ancient scripture to viral memes—this episode is an enlightening, sometimes darkly funny journey through literature, history, and our own collective psyche.