On the Media (WNYC Studios)

Episode: Covering the Pentagon, from Sy Hersh to Laura Loomer
Host: Michael Olinger
Original Air Date: December 5, 2025

Overview

This episode of "On the Media" critically examines the dramatic changes in Pentagon press coverage, focusing on the transition from traditional investigative journalism—exemplified by legendary reporter Seymour Hersh—to a new era where right-wing influencers and ideologically aligned personalities populate the Pentagon press corps. Through conversations with veteran Pentagon reporter Dan Lamoth, extremism journalist Anna Merlan, influencer-turned-Pentagon correspondent Cam Higby, and filmmaker Laura Poitras, the episode dissects how government transparency, press freedoms, and adversarial reporting are being challenged and, in many cases, undermined.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reporting on the Double-Strike Scandal and Pentagon Secrecy

• Introduction to Scandal (00:01–04:31)

  • The Pentagon faces lawsuits from the New York Times for restricting press access, following a year of scrutiny over Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s actions and leadership.
  • The Washington Post broke a major story on a September U.S. strike on alleged drug boats in the Caribbean, including a controversial second "double tap" that killed survivors—a potential war crime.

• Implications of Restricting Press Access (06:15–14:27)

  • Dan Lamoth, formerly of the Pentagon press corps, describes dramatic reductions in reporter access and the chilling effect on journalism.
  • New agreements would bar journalists from soliciting nearly any internal information—a move widely seen as a violation of First and Fifth Amendment rights.

Dan Lamoth (12:56):
"If you're asking me to sign up front, an agreement that says I will not solicit information—and not only classified information, but basically anything nebulously stated as 'defense information'—that could be virtually anything. It could be arbitrarily applied. It struck me as problematic ethically and otherwise as a journalist."

• Workflow and Relationships (11:08–11:47)
  • While physical access could sometimes yield leads, more often it facilitated trusted relationships with sources—vital for navigating contentious stories.

2. The New Pro-Trump Pentagon Press Corps

• New Faces, New Rules (16:47–18:08; 19:48–21:32)
  • Following the expulsion of traditional outlets, the Pentagon now accredits influencers and far-right activists, including Laura Loomer, James O’Keefe, and Matt Gaetz.
  • Anna Merlan of Mother Jones explains that the new crew openly declines to do investigative work and instead supports the Pentagon’s agenda.

Anna Merlan (19:48):
"They're pumped. When these new rules were first announced, people like Tim Pool essentially said, you know, we're not investigative reporters. So just…signaling right from the start that they didn’t intend to do investigative journalism about the Pentagon."

• Deputy Press Secretary Kingsley Wilson’s Far-Right Roots (20:14–22:42)
  • Kingsley Wilson, the Pentagon’s deputy press secretary, has a history of xenophobic and antisemitic remarks and is part of the Trump-aligned media ecosystem.

Anna Merlan (20:43):
"[She] spent a lot of time tweeting...excluding immigrants and trans people, advocating for what she called 'zero immigration' and mass deportations, bemoaning the 'death of the west.'"

3. Press Briefings & Ideological Allyship

• Nature of Questions and Lack of Substantive Exchange (23:34–24:27; 24:47–26:07)
  • Questions from the new corps (e.g., Matt Gaetz, Laura Loomer, James O’Keefe) tend to bolster Trump administration positions or attack former press and government 'deep state' figures, rather than probe for accountability.
  • Many questions are rhetorical and designed not to elicit new information, while press briefings themselves produce little news.

Anna Merlan (27:52):
"What a lot of these folks did with most of their first day in the Pentagon was take pictures of themselves at desks that were previously occupied by mainstream news outlets. It seemed kind of clear that that was the point."

• Paradox of Conspiratorial Media Signing Up for State Vetted Access (28:30–29:59)
  • Anna Merlan notes the contradiction: those who built brands railing against government secrecy are now signing agreements not to uncover secrets.

4. Debate on Journalistic Standards: Cam Higby Segment

• From Debate Videos to Pentagon Desk (31:45–41:59)
  • Cam Higby presents his vision: journalists should not “harass” staff for leaks and should limit themselves to what is officially sanctioned; investigative journalism is downplayed as dangerous or unwarranted.

Cam Higby (32:21):
"But what I don't think it is is to wander about the most classified building in the United States and harass every employee you see with the express purpose of extracting state secrets."

• Host Pushes Back—The Tension Around Leaks and Accountability (35:09–36:34)
  • Michael Olinger interrogates Higby on whether this approach undermines the basic function of adversarial journalism.
  • Higby accuses legacy media of bias and being "out to get" the Trump administration, while contending he's honest about his own bias.

Michael Olinger (35:55):
"But if we only report what the Pentagon press secretary is saying to you, or we only report news that has been fed to us by specially curated spokespeople...then we have no way of calling out their lies."

• Banter and Friction (41:52–43:29)
  • There’s pointed debate around the ethics of reporting, bias in journalism, and the standards for what constitutes a scandal (e.g., the double-strike, potential war crimes). Higby repeatedly rejects media’s framing, defending the Trump administration and dismissing the war crime allegations.

5. Lessons From the Past: Seymour Hersh and Investigative Journalism

• The Golden Age of Pentagon Reporting (45:30–53:22)
  • The episode pivots to the work of Seymour Hersh, who exposed the My Lai massacre in Vietnam and later torture at Abu Ghraib, through relentless cultivation of sources inside the military, often in opposition to official channels.

Seymour Hersh (46:13):
"Instead of going to lunch with my colleagues, I would go find the young officers...Eventually, army guys would start saying, well, you know, it's Murder Incorporated there."

• Laura Poitras’ New Documentary "Cover Up" (47:20–65:02)
  • Laura Poitras discusses the making of her Hersh documentary, emphasizing the centrality of adversarial journalism, source protection, and institutional risks. She also explores Hersh's fallibility and the need for self-scrutiny.

Laura Poitras (65:02):
"The erosion of trust in the media is because the public often feels lied to. They feel lied to by their government and they feel that the press is also part of the lying."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If you're asking me to sign up front, an agreement that says I will not solicit information...that could be virtually anything."
  — Dan Lamoth (12:56)

• "They're pumped. When these new rules were first announced, people like Tim Pool essentially said, you know, we're not investigative reporters."
  — Anna Merlan (19:48)

• "You sit in your air-conditioned offices or up on Capitol Hill and you nitpick and you plant fake stories."
  — Secretary Pete Hegseth, paraphrased by Michael Olinger (01:00 & 04:31)

• "Legacy media chose to self-deport from this building..."
  — Kingsley Wilson, quoted by Anna Merlan (23:01)

• "Journalists are willing to fight for the truth. The question I have is about the institutional support for that work and the willingness to take on the government when they come after you."
  — Laura Poitras (63:05)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:01–04:31 — Breakdown of the Pentagon strike scandal and escalating attacks on the press.
• 06:15–14:27 — Dan Lamoth describes the consequences of new press restrictions.
• 16:47–18:08; 19:48–22:42 — Analysis of the new, influencer-heavy, right-wing Pentagon press corps.
• 23:34–27:52 — Examples of press briefings and the rhetorical, non-investigative direction of questions.
• 31:45–43:59 — Extended, combative interview with Cam Higby about journalistic purpose, bias, and standards.
• 45:30–46:32 — Seymour Hersh recounts his approach to Pentagon reporting.
• 47:20–65:02 — Laura Poitras on Hersh, her new documentary, and the lessons for journalism.
• 65:02–end — Summation of the stakes for adversarial journalism and institutional responsibilities.

Tone and Language

• The episode maintains a skeptical, adversarial tone, especially in interviews, reflecting the show’s mission to examine how “the media sausage is made.”
• Interviewees like Dan Lamoth and Anna Merlan maintain calm factuality; Cam Higby exhibits combative defensiveness and overt bias; Laura Poitras is reflective and committed to journalistic ethics.

Summary Takeaways

• The Pentagon under the Trump administration has dramatically restricted access for traditional reporters, with most of the old press corps walking out rather than agree to new constraints.
• A new press corps, composed largely of ideologically aligned influencers, has been credentialed, but many openly disavow investigative journalism and receive little of substance in briefings.
• Critics in the episode warn of growing government secrecy and diminished adversarial reporting at precisely the moment when potential war crimes and coverups demand scrutiny.
• The contrast with past investigative reporters—exemplified by Seymour Hersh—is stark: Hersh’s relentless pursuit of the truth shines as a model for adversarial journalism, while today's environment is fraught with institutional challenges and threats to source protection.
• Ultimately, the episode offers a cautionary message: a healthy democracy relies on journalistic independence and the courage to question power, especially in times of crisis.