Podcast Summary: David Remnick Speaks to Salman Rushdie About Surviving the Fatwa
On the Media
Release Date: February 8, 2023
Host: David Remnick (Editor of The New Yorker and Host of New Yorker Radio)

Introduction

In this poignant episode of On the Media, David Remnick engages in a profound and introspective conversation with the acclaimed novelist Salman Rushdie. This interview marks Rushdie's first public dialogue since the harrowing knife attack in August 2022, which left him critically injured. The discussion traverses the personal and professional ramifications of the attack, Rushdie's enduring resilience, and his latest literary endeavor, Victory City.

Surviving the Attack

The interview opens with a candid exchange about Rushdie's physical and emotional state following the assassination attempt.

[02:00] Salman Rushdie: "You know, I've been better, but considering what happened, I'm not so bad."

Rushdie details his injuries, emphasizing the severity of the attack and his remarkable survival.

[03:12] Salman Rushdie: "I think there must have been somewhere between 15, 20 [stabbings]."

He reflects on the immediate aftermath, highlighting the swift and heroic efforts that saved his life.

[06:37] Salman Rushdie: "I have nothing but huge admiration for those young women, and not all of them young. And for the men who have supported them."

The Impact of the Fatwa and Attack

Remnick probes into the long-term effects of living under the shadow of the fatwa issued by Ayatollah Khomeini in 1989, which declared Rushdie's novel The Satanic Verses as blasphemous and called for his assassination.

[24:05] Salman Rushdie: "Oh, you know, evil Arrogant, terrible writer. Nobody would have read him if there hadn't been an attack against his book."

Rushdie discusses the creation of a "false self" in the public eye, shaped by external perceptions and criticisms during the fatwa's height.

[26:08] Salman Rushdie: "Everybody loves me."

Despite the trauma, Rushdie expresses a sense of gratitude and a determination to continue his literary pursuits without adopting the victim narrative.

Victory City: A New Chapter in Storytelling

Rushdie delves into his latest novel, Victory City, which was completed just weeks before the attack. He shares insights into the book's genesis and thematic depth.

[07:15] Salman Rushdie: "What I'm hoping is that people will be able to say, oh, here's a writer. I've tried very hard not to adopt the role of a victim."

Victory City is a historical fable set during the Vijayanagara Empire in South India, blending fantastical elements with rich historical context. Rushdie emphasizes his intent to create a narrative that transcends personal tragedy, focusing instead on universal themes of power, treachery, and the complexities of Indian history.

[10:39] Salman Rushdie: "I think that it's just another way of telling the truth."

He highlights the advanced role of women in the Vijayanagara Empire, drawing parallels to contemporary societal structures and challenging reductive historical narratives.

[11:53] Salman Rushdie: "There were women generals, there were women lawyers, there were women merchants. There were women doing everything for long periods of time."

Storytelling and Historical Narrative

A significant portion of the conversation explores Rushdie's philosophy of storytelling and his approach to intertwining history with fiction.

[07:09] David Remnick: "The first question you need to ask yourself is whose story are you telling?"

Rushdie articulates his method of world-building, where he allows his characters, particularly Pompa Campana, to guide the narrative organically.

[07:42] Salman Rushdie: "For me, in part it was just a pleasure of world building. Just having a chance to create a big canvas on which there would be... And that the book would also be about somebody who was building the world."

He underscores the importance of incorporating diverse perspectives and voices to present a multifaceted portrayal of history.

[13:17] David Remnick: "It's kind of a novelist." [13:18] Salman Rushdie: "And I thought, what a great piece of advice for a novelist."

Relationship with India and Contemporary Politics

Rushdie candidly discusses his complex relationship with India, his homeland, especially in light of the rising Hindu nationalism under the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) led by Narendra Modi.

[14:30] David Remnick: "The BJP is India's ruling party, the Hindu nationalist party of Narendra Modi."

Rushdie critiques the BJP's simplistic and sectarian portrayal of Indian history, advocating for a more nuanced and comprehensive understanding.

[14:49] Salman Rushdie: "The history of India is much more complicated than that. It's not that there was an ancient culture that another culture came in and destroyed."

He draws parallels between historical misrepresentations and contemporary political rhetoric, emphasizing the dangers of perpetuating false narratives to justify present-day injustices.

Coping with Trauma and Continuing the Literary Journey

The conversation shifts to Rushdie's personal journey of healing and his determination to return to writing despite the psychological scars left by the attack.

[35:53] Salman Rushdie: "I've been found it very, very difficult to write. I sit there to write and nothing happens."

He opens up about experiencing Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and the challenges it poses to his creative process.

[36:45] David Remnick: "Would you have forecast in any way, or did you think, was it out of mind what happened in August?" [36:47] Salman Rushdie: "I won't say that I hadn't thought about it over the years."

Rushdie emphasizes resilience and the importance of moving forward with gratitude, despite the lingering effects of the attack.

[28:13] David Remnick: "What's a scared book?" [28:15] Salman Rushdie: "Well, a book that doesn't tackle anything important, that shies away from things because you worry about how people will react to them."

Literary Legacy and Future Works

Reflecting on his extensive body of work, Rushdie contemplates the enduring impact of his novels and his aspirations for Victory City.

[40:37] Salman Rushdie: "I just hope something lasts. I mean, you don't know, do you?"

He expresses a desire for his stories to transcend generational boundaries, much like beloved classics that resonate with both children and adults.

[42:06] David Remnick: "When you look down the rear view mirror of your work, even though knowing there's more ahead, how do you assess it in terms of what you think will last and what you think the best of it is?" [42:13] Salem Rushdie: "I just hope something lasts."

Conclusion

The interview culminates with a reflection on the precarious state of global politics and Rushdie's cautious optimism for change. He acknowledges the unpredictability of societal shifts but remains steadfast in his commitment to storytelling as a means of fostering understanding and joy.

[50:05] Salman Rushdie: "I have to keep... I have to keep... I have a promise that I'd write a book he would want to read."

Through his eloquent discourse, Salman Rushdie not only recounts his personal ordeal but also reinforces the profound role of literature in capturing complex histories, challenging oppressive narratives, and celebrating the enduring human spirit.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Salman Rushdie on Survival and Resilience

   [02:00] "You know, I've been better, but considering what happened, I'm not so bad."

2. Rushdie on the Fatwa's Public Perception

   [24:05] "Oh, you know, evil Arrogant, terrible writer. Nobody would have read him if there hadn't been an attack against his book."

3. On Avoiding the Victim Narrative

   [07:15] "What I'm hoping is that people will be able to say, oh, here's a writer. I've tried very hard not to adopt the role of a victim."

4. On Storytelling and Historical Truth

   [10:39] "I think that it's just another way of telling the truth."

5. Critique of Simplistic Historical Narratives

   [14:49] "The history of India is much more complicated than that. It's not that there was an ancient culture that another culture came in and destroyed."

6. On Overcoming Fear in Writing

   [28:15] "Well, a book that doesn't tackle anything important, that shies away from things because you worry about how people will react to them."

7. On Literary Legacy

   [40:37] "I just hope something lasts. I mean, you don't know, do you?"

8. On Promise to His Son

   [42:15] "I had made him a promise that I'd write a book he would want to read."

9. On the Future of Indian Politics

   [44:35] "I don't know quite. I don't know about whether I can go anywhere, you know, and I'm just, I'm..."

10. On Finding Joy Through Art

    [38:31] "And I've been quite lucky in the way I had hit a very big bump in the road with the Satanic Verses... The main overwhelming feeling is gratitude."

This in-depth conversation not only sheds light on Salman Rushdie's personal struggles and triumphs but also offers a rich exploration of his artistic vision and unwavering commitment to storytelling amidst adversity.