On the Media Midweek: “No, DOGE Isn’t Dead”

Podcast: On the Media (WNYC Studios)
Airdate: December 3, 2025
Host: Brooke Gladstone
Guest: Vittoria Elliott, Reporter at Wired

Episode Overview

This episode examines the media narrative around the supposed “death” of DOGE—the controversial government project originally spearheaded by Elon Musk to overhaul federal technology and bureaucracy. Brooke Gladstone and Wired’s Vittoria Elliott discuss the persistence of DOGE’s personnel and values in government, the real impacts on agencies and civilians, the challenges of reporting on shifting structures, and the profound consequences for public workers and services.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Media Reports of DOGE’s Demise vs. Reality

• Despite recent headlines declaring DOGE “dead,” many core members remain embedded in federal agencies, continuing to execute the organization’s tech-forward, austerity-minded agenda.
• DOGE has shifted from an overt “strike force” to a dispersed but influential network inside government.
• [01:16] Vittoria Elliott: “One government source told Wired that DOGE operatives had burrowed into the agency like ticks.”
• Large-scale firing, rapid contract cuts, and aggressive data consolidation remain ongoing.

2. DOGE’s Organizational Legacy and Key Figures

• Former DOGE leaders now hold significant bureaucratic roles:
  • Joe Gebbia heads the NDS (design service) to “redesign government websites.”
  • Sam Korkos is now Treasury CIO, pushing tech industry-style performance tests onto government IT personnel.
• [01:37] Vittoria Elliott: “We need to think of DOGE as a set of priorities and values...rapid adoption, consolidating data, cutting what’s called ‘waste’ but often are quite essential government jobs.”

3. Impact on the Office of Management and Budget & Federal Workforce

• The OMB’s Russ Vought seeks drastic workforce and budget cuts;
• New tech-centric management style includes mass testing of civil servants (especially at the IRS) with tools reminiscent of private tech companies' “weed-out” practices.
• [03:22] Brooke Gladstone: “He [Vought] also said memorably that he would like to see the vast core of civil workers traumatized. I found that really stuck with me. It seems so cruel.”

4. Data Sharing & Civil Liberties Risks

• New policies enable unprecedented sharing of Social Security data with DHS for immigration enforcement—raising grave privacy and accuracy concerns.
• Social Security numbers are ill-fitted for citizenship status tracking, putting immigrants at risk due to outdated or misleading data.
• [06:28] Vittoria Elliott: “Social Security data, for instance, was never collected for the purpose of confirming citizenship. So that kind of data...would likely be inaccurate. And that’s incredibly concerning.”

5. Elon Musk’s Current Relationship to DOGE

• Musk now only loosely connected, per his own statements, but maintains close personal and professional ties with former DOGE operatives.
• The group’s agenda is now integrated into broader government priorities, decreasing scrutiny but not lessening impact.
• [08:03] Vittoria Elliott: “The idea that [Musk] is completely severed from DOGE would be foolish...but in terms of how much influence he’s necessarily having, that’s unclear.”

6. Real-World Consequences: Domestic & International

• Program and personnel cuts have global humanitarian fallout, with roughly 600,000 deaths attributed to US aid reductions, per Boston University estimates.
• SNAP benefit restrictions are a preview of more sweeping upheavals yet to reach US citizens.
• [10:05] Vittoria Elliott: “I see it most acutely [international suffering]...for those of us in the US, the wave is still yet to hit.”

7. Media Narratives & Difficulty Tracking DOGE

• Media—sometimes relying on formal statements—has been quick to pronounce DOGE “dead,” but the group’s personnel move smoothly into traditional agency roles.
• Executive orders ensured DOGE’s foundational influence would outlast the “task force” structure.
• [10:43] Vittoria Elliott: “The idea that...DOGE as we knew it at the beginning had a time limit was always on the table. But that doesn’t mean...the agenda...goes away.”
• As DOGE operatives blend in, reporting becomes far harder—by design. Initial reporting was easier because Musk and others publicly telegraphed their objectives.
• Past assumptions (e.g., large-scale Social Security fraud) fueled disruptive investigations, often based on misunderstandings of government systems.
  • [12:38] Brooke Gladstone: “Yeah, that was a huge story. They didn’t understand how these things were being marked numerically.”

8. Voices of Federal Workers: Trauma and Resilience

• Around 300,000 federal workers have lost, left, or been suspended since DOGE’s reforms began. Workers describe panic, grief, and frustration—but also defiance.
• Notable quotes:
  • Social Security worker’s experience: “[E]lderly Americans SOB on the phone with them because some young engineers and a billionaire don’t fully understand the data they’re looking at...that’s the one that stuck out to me the most.” [13:58]
  • FEMA employee’s statement (read aloud):

    “I’m the type of person where if you push me, I’ll push back...They can’t get me scared. I will not give them what they want. I will not just leave. I’m going to make it as difficult as possible for these fuckheads.” [15:17]

9. The Persistence of Public Service

• Despite upheaval, many federal employees remain profoundly committed to public service and willing to take risks to speak out.
• [16:06] Vittoria Elliott: “There are a lot of people who have spoken to us at great personal risk, at very hard moments in their lives, and that has been incredibly brave of them.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “DOGE operatives had burrowed into the agency like ticks.”
  — Vittoria Elliott [01:16]

• “He also said memorably that he would like to see the vast core of civil workers traumatized. I found that really stuck with me. It seems so cruel.”
  — Brooke Gladstone [03:22]

• “Social Security data...was never collected for the purpose of confirming citizenship. So...if it were...ported over for the use of immigration enforcement, would likely be inaccurate. And that’s incredibly concerning.”
  — Vittoria Elliott [06:28]

• “I will never, ever forget how much they ruined it. I’m like, fuck these people. They can’t get me scared. I will not give them what they want. I will not just leave. I’m going to make it as difficult as possible for these fuckheads.”
  — FEMA employee, read aloud by Vittoria Elliott [15:17]

• “There are a lot of people who have spoken to us at great personal risk, at very hard moments in their lives, and that has been incredibly brave of them.”
  — Vittoria Elliott [16:27]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:09] Media narrative: DOGE is “dead”
• [01:37–02:51] DOGE’s ongoing influence, key figures
• [03:22] Cruelty of policy, OMB agenda, AI-powered deregulation
• [04:16–05:14] Private-sector methods—testing federal workers
• [06:06–07:42] Data sharing, privacy and civil rights risks
• [07:45–09:25] Elon Musk’s lasting links, shifting public scrutiny
• [09:34–10:32] Cutting foreign aid, domestic ripple effects
• [10:43–12:54] Media coverage, reporting challenges, public record-keeping misunderstanding
• [13:27–16:27] Federal worker stories: trauma, resilience, personal impacts

Conclusion

Despite official denials and media declarations, DOGE is not dead. Its tactics, personnel, and priorities now permeate the federal bureaucracy—often with significant, sometimes devastating real-world impacts on public services, civil servants, and vulnerable people worldwide. This episode offers a sobering look at how an ostensibly terminated tech “strike force” continues to shape American governance and the personal courage of those left to cope with its legacy.