Podcast Summary: On the Media – "No. The Medieval Times Were Not All Game of Thrones"

Release Date: September 21, 2022

Introduction

In the episode titled "No. The Medieval Times Were Not All Game of Thrones," On the Media host Brooke Gladstone engages in a compelling conversation with historians Matthew Gabriel and David M. Perry. The discussion centers around their book, The Bright: A New History of Medieval Europe, challenging the pervasive myths surrounding the medieval period. Gladstone and her guests delve into how modern perceptions, often influenced by popular media like Game of Thrones, distort the true nature of the Middle Ages.

Challenging the Myth of the Dark Ages

Brooke Gladstone opens the conversation by highlighting the commonly held view of the medieval era as a bleak, barbaric period dominated by violence and oppression. She remarks:

“We know it is a brutal time dominated by white men with mighty steeds and flashing swords or drenched in blood by marauding Vikings...” (00:53)

Matthew Gabriel and David M. Perry counter this narrative by dissecting the origins and perpetuation of the "Dark Ages" myth. Perry explains how labeling contemporary issues as "medieval" serves to distance and oversimplify modern complexities:

“It suggests that this 1000 year period... was more violent or more barbaric than something else... It seems to me it's harder for us to understand what's really going on and address the problems now.” (03:47)

Gabriel adds that this approach allows society to portray itself as superior, conveniently categorizing problems as relics of the past rather than addressing their root causes:

“You're trying to give a very simplistic explanation and say, you know, this is an aberration, so we don't actually have to pay attention to why it's happening.” (03:57)

Modern Misconceptions and Media Influence

The discussion shifts to how modern media, particularly fantasy genres like Game of Thrones, perpetuate a skewed image of the medieval period. Gladstone notes the dual portrayal of the Middle Ages as both dark and glorified:

“You think about the world today. That can be a good thing or a bad thing... because they associate themselves not with the people who are being persecuted, but the persecutors.” (05:21)

Perry emphasizes that medieval imagery is often co-opted by groups like white supremacists to valorize a distorted past:

“Whenever you find white supremacists, you'll find medievalism and you'll almost always find murder.” (05:35)

Medieval Democracy and Social Complexity

Contrary to popular belief, Gabriel and Perry reveal that the medieval period was not devoid of democratic elements. They highlight examples of democratic practices in medieval Italian cities, where citizens voted for mayors and aldermen:

“Medieval people love to vote... Italian cities voted for mayors, they voted for aldermen.” (12:42)

Perry further illustrates that contemporary democratic practices have deep roots in medieval institutions, challenging the notion that democracy is a purely modern invention:

“There are medieval governments that were democratic.” (12:42)

The Bright Ages: A New Perspective

The hosts and guests advocate for a nuanced understanding of the medieval period, termed as the "Bright Ages." They argue that medieval Europe was a time of vibrant culture, innovation, and democratic governance, rather than the monochromatic gloom often depicted:

“They lived in color. They did not live in a black and white world.” (11:07)

Perry shares anecdotes from their book, such as a Byzantine general's pivotal decision that could have extended the Roman Empire, illustrating the contingent nature of historical events:

“One I like to talk about... he could have taken it, and then we'd have an entirely different story to tell.” (10:30)

Impact of Misunderstanding History

Gladstone and her guests stress the importance of accurately understanding history to avoid fatalism and recognize the potential for different outcomes. Gabriel asserts that acknowledging the complexities and choices of the past empowers contemporary society to make informed decisions:

“We're not constrained by the actions of the past... Does that upend the entire story that they're trying to tell?” (13:35)

Perry adds that historians have a responsibility to scrutinize the narratives being presented and understand their motivations:

“Part of the job of the historian... Who does it serve? Who does it harm?” (05:35)

Conclusion

Matthew Gabriel and David M. Perry conclude by emphasizing that a richer, more accurate portrayal of the medieval period can foster a better understanding of modern societal structures and relationships. By dispelling the myths of the Dark Ages and highlighting the "Bright Ages," they advocate for a reevaluation of history that acknowledges both its complexities and its continuities.

Brooke Gladstone wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to explore the nuanced history presented in The Bright: A New History of Medieval Europe, challenging long-held misconceptions and appreciating the true depth of the medieval era.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Brooke Gladstone: “We know it is a brutal time dominated by white men with mighty steeds and flashing swords or drenched in blood by marauding Vikings...” (00:53)
• David M. Perry: “It suggests that this 1000 year period... was more violent or more barbaric than something else... It seems to me it's harder for us to understand what's really going on and address the problems now.” (03:47)
• Matthew Gabriel: “You're trying to give a very simplistic explanation and say, you know, this is an aberration, so we don't actually have to pay attention to why it's happening.” (03:57)
• David M. Perry: “Whenever you find white supremacists, you'll find medievalism and you'll almost always find murder.” (05:35)
• David M. Perry: “They lived in color. They did not live in a black and white world.” (11:07)
• Matthew Gabriel: “We're not constrained by the actions of the past... Does that upend the entire story that they're trying to tell?” (13:35)

Final Thoughts

This episode of On the Media serves as an enlightening exploration of how historical narratives are constructed and the impact they have on contemporary thought. By challenging the dark stereotypes of the medieval period, Brooke Gladstone, along with Matthew Gabriel and David M. Perry, encourages a more informed and vibrant appreciation of history that recognizes both its darkness and its luminosity.