On the Media: "Tell Your Uncle He’s Fighting Twitter Bots in Bangladesh"

Podcast: On the Media, WNYC Studios
Airdate: November 28, 2025
Hosts: Brooke Gladstone, Michael Ohinger
Episode Overview:
This week’s episode explores three key topics: the revelation that many influential MAGA/X (formerly Twitter) accounts are operated from overseas click-farms, the ongoing struggle—and recent wins—against organized book bans in American public schools, and an untold history of how librarians and academics helped win World War II through covert intelligence work. The hosts, with expert guests, unravel the complexities and ironies of modern media ecosystems, the weaponizing of "outrage," and the enduring—and sometimes hidden—social importance of libraries and librarians.

1. The Twitter Bot Revelation: MAGA Goes Global (02:12 – 17:18)

Main Discussion Points

• Unveiling Fake "Grassroots":
  Elon Musk’s X rolls out a “About this Account” feature, revealing the geographic origins and suspicious behavior (multiple username changes) of high-profile accounts. This exposes that many large right-wing (and some left-wing) influencer accounts are actually operated in places like Eastern Europe, Bangladesh, and Pakistan.

• The Impact on Online Discourse:
  The scale shocks American users and undermines the narrative of authentic, grassroots online support for various movements—especially within the MAGA community.

• Media & Political Amplification:
  Elite media, politicians, and influencers amplify posts from these supposed “ordinary Americans,” making them central to national debate—even though many are not who they claim.

• The New Engagement Economy:
  X’s shift to engagement-based payouts (versus advertising revenue) incentivizes creators—legit and fake alike—to maximize outrage and reply counts, often fueling misinformation and incentivizing inauthentic behavior.

Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the scale of deception:
  “What is genuinely surprising...is the scale and also just the nature of it all happening at once...These foreign influence operations have been uncovered forever...but this is happening in full public view.”
  — Charlie Warzel, staff writer at The Atlantic (06:00)

• The ‘Russian nesting doll of bullshit’:
  “Fake people yelling at fake people for being fake. It is this nothing is true and everything is possible moment.”
  — Charlie Warzel (09:26)

• Irony of xenophobia and exploitation:
  “There’s something...ironic and funny about a social media site that seems to promote very xenophobic personalities and content, revealing itself to be exploited by non-Americans.”
  — Michael Ohinger (08:25)

• Engagement slop metrics:
  “If you get like around 1,300 or so replies to a tweet you can probably make a couple thousand bucks...this is the classic Silicon Valley sin...There is nothing more engaging than outrage.”
  — Charlie Warzel (10:31)

• Why transparency tools backfire:
  “Hank Green, the popular YouTuber, it says his account is based in Japan. And when I asked him about that on Sunday, he said he’d never been to Japan.”
  — Charlie Warzel (11:44)

• Media’s unique ties to X:
  “A lot of the media elite and political elite hang out on X...It’s where this like, discussion happens, right?”
  — Charlie Warzel (12:50)

• Manufactured outrage example—Cracker Barrel:
  “Between 32 and 37% of the posts...outraged about this...were supposedly fake accounts. This is a standard way to create culture war.”
  — Charlie Warzel (14:36)

• On digital skepticism:
  “If there is a way to be optimistic about this, it’s that people aren’t stupid...they’re going to realize the temperature of the water they’re swimming in and be like, I gotta get out of the pool.”
  — Charlie Warzel (16:48)

Notable Timestamps

• 04:37 – X introduces the “About this Account” feature
• 05:21 – Examples of accounts with misleading locations
• 07:21 – Right-wing influencers disproportionately affected
• 09:42 – “Russian nesting doll of bullshit” discussion
• 12:50 – Media and politics’ unique reliance on X
• 14:26 – Cracker Barrel outrage as case study
• 16:48 – Signs of hope: logging off en masse

2. Book Ban Backlash: The Librarian on the Front Lines (18:43 – 34:37)

Main Discussion Points

• Victories Against Book Bans:
  Local school boards nationwide are seeing setbacks for book-banning activists; major wins for teachers unions and pro-library candidates signal hope after years of harassment and attempted censorship.

• Personal Testimony from Amanda Jones:
  Amanda Jones, an award-winning librarian from Louisiana, shares her firsthand experience as a target of social media and community harassment—including defamation and physical threats—after standing up for library collections.

• The Emotional and Psychological Toll:
  Jones recounts panic attacks, threats to her safety, defamation, and the sense of betrayal and isolation that followed viral memes and harassment.

• The Stakes: Kids’ Lives and Representation:
  Censorship disproportionately harms vulnerable groups, especially LGBTQ youth. Losing books means losing affirming, potentially life-saving visibility and connection.

• The Role of External Agitators & Dark Money:
  Out-of-state activists and well-funded Christian nationalist and right-wing groups play a disproportionate role in stoking local outrage, often for political gain.

Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the toxicity of online harassment:
  “One meme said that I advocate the teaching of anal sex to 11 year olds...another had a circle like a target around my face.”
  — Amanda Jones (21:16)

• On the real-world consequences:
  “I eventually had to take a leave of absence...I was losing chunks of hair. I lost 50 pounds over the next few months from the stress of it all.”
  — Amanda Jones (21:44)

• What’s at stake:
  “Lives are at stake. Children’s lives...I have had many, many students who have grown up and taken their own lives. Over two dozen. Almost every single former student that I know...fall into one of two categories: veterans or members of the LGBTQ community.”
  — Amanda Jones (22:39)

• Power of representation:
  “I see books with people that look like me. I see brown characters...I never saw that when I went to this school.”
  — Amanda Jones (24:13)

• On why out-of-towners drive local campaigns:
  “There’s a pastor from Texas that travels all over...a man that’s filed thousands of challenges in Florida schools...They’re just trying to cause chaos and sow distrust in our library systems.”
  — Amanda Jones (29:17)

• Book bans ebb and flow locally:
  “Some states are swinging back, and some are just getting started.”
  — Amanda Jones (30:16)

• Presidency as pivotal:
  “The minute [Trump] got into office, he fired the Librarian of Congress and almost completely gutted the Institute of Museum and Library Services...”
  — Amanda Jones (31:15)

• Why become a librarian?:
  “Once [kids] become readers, it opens them up to a whole new world...Books do save lives, books do make us more empathetic, kind human beings, and we could use a lot more of that in this world.”
  — Amanda Jones (33:08)

Notable Timestamps

• 19:23 – Hopeful election outcomes for librarians
• 21:16 – On the memes and viral harassment
• 22:39 – The impact on student well-being and life
• 24:13 – Former students on feeling “seen”
• 29:17 – Detailed funding and activist dynamics
• 31:15 – National politics’ impact on libraries
• 33:08 – Amanda’s personal mission

3. Spies in the Stacks: How Librarians Helped Win World War II (35:20 – 52:00)

Main Discussion Points

• Redefining WWII Espionage:
  Historian Elise Graham describes how unassuming librarians, scholars, and archivists played pivotal yet invisible roles in Allied intelligence. Their ability to analyze, collect, and interpret information proved vital to the war effort.

• Misinformation as Weapon:
  The war’s “official story” (like the creation of the atomic bomb) was shaped as much by planned propaganda and disinformation campaigns as actual scientific breakthroughs—for both national morale and international deception.

• Librarians as Spies:
  Anecdotes highlight the recruitment, training, and field work of unlikely but highly effective agents like Joseph Curtis (book collector in Istanbul), Sherman Kent (intelligence analyst), and Adele Kyber (archive hunter in Sweden). Their “mundane” expertise disguised crucial covert operations.

• Women’s hidden role:
  A substantial—though often unacknowledged—percentage of OSS staff were women, whose contributions ranged from document acquisition to cultivating information via “whispering” campaigns.

• Storytelling as Strategy:
  Operations like "whispering" (coordinated rumor-mongering) and high-profile deception projects (e.g., Operation Mincemeat) illustrate the power of narrative, both on the battlefield and in public consciousness.

• The Ongoing Value of Libraries:
  Postwar, the US government heavily invested in libraries, recognizing their value not just for education and community but for national security.

Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Physicist's (and Historian's) War:
  “We often think of World War II as the physicists’ war...That itself was a successful misinformation campaign.”
  — Elise Graham (36:51)

• Recruitment of the overlooked:
  “These spies...were chosen precisely because they would be overlooked. Rumor has it that to this day the CIA does recruiting at the American Library Association conference.”
  — Elise Graham (38:30)

• Pocket-litter and authenticity:
  “Your breath should smell like the toothpaste...tobacco in your pockets needs to be sold where you’re from...”
  — Elise Graham (42:25)

• On the inventiveness of intelligence:
  “Paper can be more effective than bombs...It was really adventurous and imaginative reading in the New York Public Library and the Library of Congress that allowed the Allies to come to these insights.”
  — Elise Graham (43:05–44:35)

• Whispering as a weapon:
  “The coordination of loose lips had to be as tight as special forces...The head of this section had the enviable title Master Whisperer.”
  — Elise Graham (46:49)

• The importance of narrative literacy:
  “If you could get a whisper printed in a small newspaper, then a big respectable newspaper would print that the small newspaper was saying it. And then suddenly, it was respectable...It’s important to teach people how stories work.”
  — Elise Graham (48:50)

• Why diversity matters in times of war:
  “Authoritarianism is a catastrophic military disadvantage...Diversity is a big military advantage...agile military thinking because they value outside perspectives.”
  — Elise Graham (50:19)

Notable Timestamps

• 35:20 – Introduction to WWII book spies
• 36:51 – The war of physics vs. narrative
• 38:30 – Recruitment and training of librarian-spies
• 42:25 – Details of espionage tradecraft
• 46:49 – The art of “whispering”
• 48:20 – Operation Mincemeat
• 49:59 – Libraries and national security
• 50:19 – On diversity and authoritarian failure
• 52:00 – Why stories, and a plurality of stories, matter

Conclusion & Takeaways

A common thread:
The episode's segments connect through the theme of storytelling as both shield and sword—from the modern digital “wars” of bots and engagement farming, through the lived trauma and resilience of librarians facing censorship and harassment, to the powerful, often hidden auxiliary role libraries and librarians have played in shaping historical outcomes at the highest levels.

Tone & Style:
The episode features On the Media's trademark blend of deeply-reported analysis, skepticism toward surface media narratives, and empathy for frontline individuals. Its guests speak frankly, with moments of dark humor and urgency. The conversation is both cautionary and, in moments, cautiously optimistic about the power of media consumers—and library users—to demand better information ecosystems.

Segment Quick Reference (Timestamps)

• 02:12 – MAGA Bots on X: Global click-farms
• 18:43 – Book Censorship in US Schools: Amanda Jones’ story
• 35:20 – Espionage in the Library: WWII’s hidden book spies