Trump's War on the Fed, Explained. Plus, How One School Teacher Stood Up to Putin.

Summary

On the Media – “Trump’s War on the Fed, Explained. Plus, How One School Teacher Stood Up to Putin.”

Podcast: On the Media (WNYC Studios)
Hosts: Brooke Gladstone
Guests: Mark Blythe (Brown University), Pasha Telenkin (focal subject of “Mr. Nobody Against Putin”), David Borenstein (documentary co-director)
Date: January 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles two central threads:

1. The politicization of the Federal Reserve under the Trump administration, analyzing the media narratives and the real power of the Fed.
2. The story behind the documentary “Mr. Nobody Against Putin,” which chronicles how Russian schools have become propaganda tools and the remarkable resistance of a schoolteacher quietly pushing back.

The episode explores themes of institutional independence, autocracy, propaganda, and individual agency, offering context and cautious analysis rather than hot takes.

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Section 1: Trump’s “War” on the Federal Reserve

Introduction and Media Context

• The Trump administration has initiated a criminal investigation against Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell, ostensibly linked to Senate testimony about a costly renovation ([01:39]).
• Powell responds publicly, defending the Fed’s independence:

  “The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment of what serves the public rather than following the preferences of the president.” – Jerome Powell, paraphrased ([02:00])

How Does the Fed Actually Work?

• Brooke Gladstone and Mark Blythe explain:

  • Central banks set short-term interest rates, but long-term rates (the 'curve') depend on the confidence of global bond buyers ([03:08-03:50]).
  • Discussion of the proposed Trump-era 10% cap on credit card interest:

    “If we are asked to lend money... we need to get compensated for that risk and the banks go, well, there’ll just be less credit.” – Mark Blythe ([04:15-04:22])

• Blythe makes clear:

  “The vast majority of cash... is not anything that comes from the central bank. It’s actually just commercial bank loans.” ([04:35])

Historical Context and Independence is a “Myth”

• Blythe traces Fed history:
  • U.S. Fed only established in 1913, gained independence in 1951.
  • Independence always partial:

    “The notion that you’re completely independent has always been a bit of a myth.” ([05:17-06:45])

  • In the ’80s-’90s, the Fed’s reputation for controlling inflation peaked; independence became dogma.

The World is Different Now

• U.S. (and global) politics have shifted. Central banks are less revered and more politicized:

  “You’re focusing on short term interest rates and central bank independence. It’s like the whole house is burning down and you’re worrying about your favorite rug.” – Mark Blythe ([08:14])

• Independence is giving way to “operational control,” but the world is more volatile and less responsive to old certainties ([08:51]).

The Authoritarian/Power Play & “Distraction” Narratives

• Trump’s antagonism toward Powell may be:
  1. Part of a global trend undermining central bank independence (e.g., Turkey’s Erdogan – disastrous results; ([09:29])).
  2. A power play:

     “If you push this over and put your yes man in charge, you’re signaling to every other independent agency in the government – you will now do what I say.” ([12:19])

     • “It’s like going into the prison and beating up the big guy.” – Gladstone/Blythe ([00:25], repeated at [12:33])
  3. A distraction from other issues:

     “It’s flood the zone.” ([13:17])

The Real Power of the Fed, and What Matters

• Blythe cautions not to overstate the Fed’s role:

  “The mistake that we made, if we made a mistake, was to basically treat these guys as the masters of the universe and they’re not.” ([16:08])

• The truly impactful issues remain unaddressed:

  “Groceries are up 20% from where they started at the beginning of the pandemic and they’re not coming down... [cutting interest rates] isn’t going to make the price of carrots any different.” ([15:38][15:41])

Blythe’s Conclusion

• “Independent central banks, you can’t live with them, you can’t live without them... The mistake that we made... was to basically treat these guys as the masters of the universe and they’re not.” ([16:08-16:40])

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Section 2: “Mr. Nobody Against Putin” – Resisting Propaganda from Within

The Story of Pasha Telenkin

What Changed After February 2022

• Pasha was the school “AV guy” who loved his role in bringing creativity to the largest primary school in Karabash, a polluted, isolated Russian town ([20:31-21:25]).
• After the Ukraine invasion, drastic changes hit:

  “All of the directives started arriving at school with literally scripts for every class and what the teacher should say...” – Pasha ([22:04])

The Mechanics of Surveillance and Propaganda

• Teachers were required to read from state-provided scripts, and Pasha had to film evidence of compliance ([22:21-24:11]).
• He resisted in subtle ways by falsifying the video archive and observing that nobody noticed (revealing the empty performativity of state oversight).

“I realized that I was there to be the government. This signal for the teachers, watch out, we’re here watching you.” – Pasha ([24:25])

Motivation: Family History and Moral Duty

• Pasha shares a personal story about recording his mother’s testimony regarding their ancestors persecuted by Stalin:

  “I just felt this compulsion to just do something... there are all these kids around me... when they saw all of that, it was like a signal to them that the school is not completely lost...” ([24:57-26:43])

• Acts of resistance—blaring Lady Gaga’s version of the anthem, displaying the American flag—were signals to students (and the community) that “you are not alone” ([26:43-27:19]).

Going Public and Facing Danger

• Pasha’s frustration boiled over; he responded to a casting call, condemning the required propaganda:

  “I am a teacher forced to do the exact opposite of what a teacher should do.” ([27:19-27:51])

• Working with foreign filmmakers was a massive risk, but he felt he owed it to his students and his family legacy ([28:28-29:15]).

Life in Karabash – Love and Loss

• Emotional farewell to the poisoned but beloved home:

  “A turtle can’t help but love its shell... there are so many birds that sing so beautifully. ... I have to say, the people there, they love me too.” – Pasha ([35:11-36:06])

Impact of the Documentary

• Pasha describes mixed local reactions to the film: some parents were shocked—“we had no idea about what the content of those lessons were”—while others expressed deep sorrow:

  “My old teacher came to my mom and said, I watched it. And I wept and I wept and I wept.” ([36:08])

• Ultimately, no one in the town would collaborate with Russian state TV to denounce Pasha, illustrating quiet communal solidarity ([36:08-37:05]).

Pasha’s Final Message

“Look what awaits you if you are apolitical, if you are weak, if you give in to self-censorship... From your school desk to your grave is only one step.” ([37:19])

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Section 3: Filmmaker’s Perspective – David Borenstein

How the Film Was Made

• Borenstein collaborated with Pasha for two years, receiving daily uploads on an encrypted server ([42:39]).

• He notes the creeping normalization of absurdity and brutality under authoritarianism ([43:14-44:35]):

  “...I had seen so much propaganda content... that I actually didn’t recognize [the Wagner Group footage] as something unbelievable... I couldn’t even recognize that as ridiculous anymore.” – David Borenstein ([43:32])

• The film is a joint directorship:

  “What is beautiful about this film to me is that it is a co-directorship, a collaboration between me... and Pasha, the schoolteacher... Pasha’s goal was political, he wanted to show the world what was happening in his school. But my job was to find a way to tell that as a story.” ([46:09-46:41])

Security and Trust

• Security concerns (BBC assisted) made collaboration challenging:

  “Imagine this relationship where you are putting your life on the line, filming things, uploading them every day. But it’s a one way relationship... That is difficult.” ([48:10])

• When Pasha finally saw the finished cut:

  “David, I was 50% certain this whole thing was a scam.” – Pasha via David Borenstein ([49:13-49:24])

The Nature of Russian Propaganda

• Contrasting Propaganda:

  “In China... the propaganda is designed to convince. In Russia... It is about making you do stupid and absurd things so many times that you become too cynical to resist.” – Borenstein ([49:34-50:40])

Humanizing the Story

• Despite the darkness, much of Pasha’s footage is heartwarming; Borenstein was moved by a self-shot interview in which Pasha lists all he loves about his poisoned hometown, disproving any notion that he simply wanted to escape ([44:45-45:54]).

• The film avoids condemning or shaming all citizens, focusing instead on credible personal narratives and expressive but cautious resistance ([47:46]).

Hope and Vulnerability

• Not all in the town were complicit; some supported or defended Pasha after seeing the documentary.
• Even a regime-boosting history teacher responded kindly when wished a happy birthday ([52:01]).
• The film is both a warning against complacency and a celebration of small acts of agency ([37:19]).

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “It’s like going into the prison and beating up the big guy.” – Brooke Gladstone & Mark Blythe ([00:25], [12:33])
• “There’s a way in which people talk about this stuff in the United States where it’s like people who watch the West Wing and wish they lived in that world. You don’t live in that world. That world does not exist.” – Mark Blythe ([08:29])
• “The mistake that we made... was to basically treat these guys [central bankers] as the masters of the universe and they’re not.” – Mark Blythe ([16:08])
• “A turtle can’t help but love its shell.” – Pasha Telenkin ([35:11])
• “In Russia... propaganda is about making you do stupid and absurd things so many times that you become too cynical to resist.” – David Borenstein ([49:34-50:40])
• “Look what awaits you if you are apolitical, if you are weak, if you give in to self censorship.” – Pasha Telenkin ([37:19])
• “David, I was 50% certain this whole thing was a scam.” – Pasha Telenkin (via Borenstein, [49:13])

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:22 – 16:40: Mark Blythe on the Fed, central bank history, and the Trump investigation.
• 18:31 – 37:58: Pasha Telenkin recounts his personal and professional journey, resistance strategies, and reflections on Karabash.
• 39:53 – 53:18: David Borenstein on making the documentary, the structure of Russian propaganda, and collaboration challenges.

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Tone & Style

The tone is measured, analytical, and quietly urgent. Gladstone’s style is inquisitive and empathetic; Blythe is incisive, wry, and context-driven; Pasha is reflective, candid, and deeply humane; Borenstein is thoughtful and precise, with a focus on both technical and emotional truths.

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Final Takeaway

This episode uses expert analysis and first-person testimony to demystify the Fed's real power (and overrated independence) in U.S. politics, while offering a powerful human narrative of resistance to authoritarian propaganda. Both stories point to the limits of institutions—and the importance of personal agency and persistence, even under immense pressure.

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Transcript

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[Mark Blythe]

The Fed is the titular observable institution.

[Brooke Gladstone]

It's like going into the prison and beating up the big guy.

[Mark Blythe]

Exactly. Take the bologna sandwich, slam it on the floor, head bottom and walk out.

[Brooke Gladstone]

That's one theory behind the Trump administration's investigation into the chairman of the Federal Reserve. There are others. From WNYC in New York, this is ON THE media. I'm Brooke Gladstone. Also on this week's show, a new documentary reveals how a Russian propaganda push in schools is preparing a new generation to die on the battlefield. The co directors of the documentary titled Mr. Nobody against Putin finally met after two years of talking on the phone.

[David Borenstein]

Through a trans and I finally showed him a real cut of the film. He watched it. The first thing he said to me was, David, I was 50% certain this whole thing was a scam.

[Brooke Gladstone]

It's all coming up after this. From WNYC in New York, this is ON THE media. Michael Loewenter is out this week. I'm Brooke Gladstone. By now you've heard of the latest marbled citadel in Washington to run afoul of the Trump administration, ironically, partly because of its marble.

[Pasha Telenkin]

This morning, federal prosecutors have launched a criminal investigation into Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell, related to his testimony before a Senate committee about the multi billion dollar renovation of two Federal Reserve buildings.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Powell, not famously a hothead, fired back at the administration in a two minute long video message.

[David Borenstein]

The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment of what serve the public rather than following the preferences of the president.

[Brooke Gladstone]

There's been a lot of hand wringing about the independence of the Fed, an institution which has traditionally been outside of the political fray.

[David Borenstein]

If for political reasons they lower interest rates to appease the present, there's going to be no end to that. Future Democrats could do the same thing. That's bad.

[Mark Blythe]

As Mervyn King, who used to be the head of the bank of England, puts it, you don't want an inflation nutter in charge of the.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Mark Blythe is a professor of international economics and public affairs at Brown University.

[Mark Blythe]

Someone who will drop rates that will make credit really cheap. Everyone will go, have a party. There isn't enough stuff. The price of stuff will go up, you'll get inflation. Right? That's what they're worried about, okay?

[Brooke Gladstone]

It's what everyone is talking about and warning about. But steady on.

[Mark Blythe]

Now, for that to happen, the Fed would have to have real control over the whole curve. And they don't.

[Brooke Gladstone]

A quick econ 101 refresher. Historically, the power of central banks stems from their ability to steady economic waters by setting interest rates, acting as reserves for commercial banks, and buying and selling things like bonds, essentially IOUs where in return for lending the government your money, you get it back later with interest. The curve is how much it costs to borrow money over time. The Fed has plenty of short term control over that cost. But long term, if whoever is buying the bonds, everyone from pension funds to individuals, if they lose faith in what the government is doing, they can say, we won't take on the government's debt unless we get a higher interest rate. A key example of this ebb and flow happened this week.

[Mark Blythe]

Look at what happened with the credit card stuff. Trump comes out and says 10%. That's it.

[Brooke Gladstone]

That's a 10% cap on credit card interest. A policy championed by both. Part their premise is, hey, if we are asked to lend money, which is.

[David Borenstein]

Extend credit to someone who is a low earner or has a shaky credit.

[Pasha Telenkin]

Score, we need to get compensated for.

[Mark Blythe]

That risk and the banks go, well, there'll just be less credit.

[Brooke Gladstone]

That said, Blythe argues that central banks are in fact far less responsible for the supply of money in the economy as a whole than we may believe.

[Mark Blythe]

We deregulated banks in the 1980s and what that means is the vast majority of cash, the bank of England in 2014 estimated for the UK 96% of all cash is not anything that comes from the central bank. It's actually just commercial bank loans.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So as this story unfolds, he says there are a few ways to understand the DOJ's investigation into the Fed chair. Yes, it could be an authoritarian power play or a Trumpian distraction. But he favors another reason that this is a story about a trend the slow decline of the power and independence of central banks everywhere.

[Mark Blythe]

There's a kind of feeling amongst Americans who think about this stuff that Moses found the tablets, he handed them to George Washington, and the 11th Commandment is thou shalt have an independent central bank. That's not what happened. The United States only got a fed in 1913, and that fed was actually quite supportive of government actions all the way through the New Deal. It's only in 1951 that it carved out its independence. There's a bit of a spot between the Fed and the treasury and Harry Truman. And the bank says our job is actually just making sure that the currency's stable and inflation doesn't get out of control. So they had what were called the Fed treasury accords, where they basically divided up the territory. And this is where we get the distinction between fiscal policy, what the government does, taxes and spending, and monetary policy, what the central bank does. Now this is complicated by the fact that the Fed has a dual mandate that also comes out of World War II, which says that you'll also maximize employment. Now, if you think about this for a minute, if you have a standing charge from the legislature, you only exist because of Congress. You have to report to Congress. And one of the things you have to do is to make sure that there isn't mass unemployment. They've already told you what to do. The notion that you're completely independent has always been a bit of a myth. Right, so what are you independent on? So called operational control of interest rates. This is where the 1970s comes into it. That's when we start to worry about inflation. And the lesson that we took from that was Paul Volcker, who was in charge at that time, bangs interest rates up to nearly 20%, causes a massive recession. Inflation falls from 16% all the way down basically over the next several years. It takes a while, but the economy loses inflation. And by 1984, Ronald Reagan saying it's morning in America and the economy takes off on a tear. This is the beginning of the rationale for having big, powerful independent central banks that don't let the government spend too much money. And then when the financial crisis hit in 2008, we turned to the central banks because they were the ones in charge and said, right, lads, you need to fix this terrible mess.

[Brooke Gladstone]

It was the commercial banks that caused it.

[Mark Blythe]

Yeah, I know, but basically it's the same as 1913. The banks got themselves into trouble and you want the central bank to fix it.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So now bring us up to the present.

[Mark Blythe]

Central bank independence reaches its zenith basically just before the global financial crisis. And then they're kind of discredited because they were the people that said, we've got this. And there was a huge crisis that engulfed the whole world. And ultimately these are creatures of a particular time now, that particular time, as they used to put it, the great moderation, very low volatility, interest rates are low, growth is nice, everything's ticking along just everything's good. We don't live in that world anymore. We live in a world of geopolitics. We live in a world in which we're literally. The United States is saying we don't really care about democracy anymore. We're just gonna occupy countries and take their oil. That happened so quickly.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Are you saying it's just less important?

[Mark Blythe]

You're focusing on short term interest rates and central bank independence. It's like the whole house is burning down and you're worrying about your favorite rug.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So we should not worry about. Trump uses shoulds. Brooke.

[Mark Blythe]

Brooke, it's not shoulds. None of this is my opinion, but ought to be what I'm trying to get away from. There's a way in which people talk about this stuff in the United States where it's like people who watch the West Wing and wish they lived in that world. Right. You don't live in that world. That world does not exist.

[Brooke Gladstone]

It's a moderating enterprise for an immoderate time.

[Mark Blythe]

Yes, exactly. It's a set of institutions that don't respond well to randomness and volatility. Put it that way. And that's the world that we're in. And again, I'm not endorsing this. Right. I'm not saying this is good. This is where we should be. I kind of like the 90s. But we can't just pretend that we're back there and worry about the same things because we don't live in that world anymore.

[Brooke Gladstone]

All around the world, leaders have decided that they don't want their central banks independent anymore as the populist right rises everywhere. The example of where this idea was carried out is Turkey. And that was a disaster.

[Mark Blythe]

It was indeed. That's the cautionary tale that people like to point to. So the guy who runs it, Erdogan, basically has this idea, which is intuitive, but from the point of view of anybody who does this stuff. Wrong. And here's the intuitive idea. When you push up interest rates, things get more expensive. So why do you increase interest rates if you want to make things less expensive?

[Brooke Gladstone]

Right.

[Mark Blythe]

Ah, intuitive. Right? Right. Okay. But the thing is, by making credit more expensive, the economy slows down and that shifts people's expectations of prices, and that helps to lower inflation. That's the standard model. So he was like, no, we're basically going to have lower interest rates to combat inflation. And of course that didn't work. They ended up with very high inflation. On the flip side of that, what they also did was it crashed their currency and then their exports got a lot cheaper. Now is The United States Turkey. No, the United States prints the thing that everybody else needs to earn in order to import food. So if the United States cut interest rates to 1%, would it produce a turkey like reaction? Well, here's what happened. The President of the United States said, we're going to basically not just reduce federal bank independence, central bank independence, we're going to arrest the chairman. Right. And the markets went, nah. Because either they know it's bull and it's just disruption, or alternatively, they see the world in such a way, they're like, all right, so he cuts it to 1%. Might get a little pickup in inflation in the United States if it feeds through. I mean, we thought tariffs was going to feed through inflation. That didn't happen.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Method. Let's move on to the second narrative that you might use to explain this or that you might apply to this situation, that it's simply a power play. It sure sounds like it.

[Donald Trump]

We have a bad Fed chairman. He's bad in a lot of different ways, but he's bad because his interest rates were too high. He's got some real mental problems. I'll be honest, I'd love to fire his ass. He's renovating a small building. It's the most expensive construction job in history. He's billions of dollars over budget. So he either is incompetent or he's crooked.

[Brooke Gladstone]

What does that mean for our economy if it's left prey to the manipulations of presidents who want to stay in power no matter how much people suffer in the long term? Or are you saying that the Fed just isn't that powerful?

[Mark Blythe]

I'm saying that the Fed is extremely important. It's the global central bank. Is it important to have a central bank that basically does bank regulation well, and make sure that the credit system doesn't blow up? Yeah. Hell, yeah. Absolutely. But what we've done is this weird thing where we've made the head of the Fed the most important economic person on the planet, and whatever they do is the most important thing. We have made him that in our imaginations, and that is simply not the case.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So this is a power play because Trump believes in the Fed's power?

[Mark Blythe]

Because the Fed is the titular, observable, obvious institution in which to say, if you push this over and put your yes man in charge, you're signaling to every other independent agency, the government. You will now do what I say.

[Brooke Gladstone]

It's like going into the prison and beating up the big guy.

[Mark Blythe]

Exactly. Exactly. That's it. Yeah. Take the bologna sandwich, slam it on the floor, head butt him and walk out. That's pretty much it.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So Trump may not get his way. Multiple Republicans have gone on record saying that the Fed's independence is important. North Carolina's Thom Tillis on the Senate Banking Committee is an important guy. He said he's ready to hold up all Fed appointments until this thing with Powell is, quote, resolved, which I think means Trump has to back off. Maybe it's not a well thought out power grab.

[Mark Blythe]

Here's the last possibility as to what this is. You fell for it again, Brooke.

[Brooke Gladstone]

The distraction, it's just.

[Mark Blythe]

It's flood the zone.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I am gonna really argue with that here, cuz. I mean, look, we've done nothing but talk about these distractions. We've extensively covered how this administration has flooded the zone, and in the first 12 months and the last time around, it's an absolutely real and relevant tactic. But Americans do consistently vote with their wallets. Americans now increasingly disbelieve that Trump can handle the economy.

[Mark Blythe]

But what exactly is Powell being arrested or whatever got to do with any of that?

[Brooke Gladstone]

Powell and the central bank and all of that is conflated with the whole notion of affordability and controlling prices and so forth. You think that's not how the public perceives it.

[Mark Blythe]

Half the public couldn't tell you what the central bank is if the life depended on it.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Well, that's true, but they've seen the headline bad for the economy.

[Mark Blythe]

Okay, so they believe all headlines then. In which case they should just believe Trump. Right? I mean, like, where exactly do we want to go with this?

[Brooke Gladstone]

Right, Right.

[Mark Blythe]

Venezuela. Right. May be a distraction option because you don't get to run a country by kidnapping a guy and his wife and saying, we now run things. Right. You actually need to go things and basically saying, we're gonna arrest the Fed chair when you know that you're not gonna arrest the Fed chair strikes me as just another distraction. This entire thing could literally just be, what do I do this week to stay in the headlines?

[Brooke Gladstone]

So, Mark, let's consider that all three of your stories about what's going on now are correct. That removing Powell or trying to or simply discrediting the independence of a central bank is a global trend. Also, it's a power grab and serves as a temporary distraction from less flattering news.

[Mark Blythe]

Yes, that's the all of the above answer. I fully sign up to the all of the above answer.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So how should people watch this story, if not for the politics, then for their pocketbooks?

[Mark Blythe]

My recommendation is don't watch it at all. I hate to say that, particularly to a media show, but basically it's toxic and everyone's losing their minds. There's lots of things to be worried about that will definitely impact your pocket, pocketbook. Let's go back to groceries. Groceries are up 20% from where they started at the beginning of the pandemic and they're not coming down.

[Brooke Gladstone]

And there's nothing that the central bank can do about that.

[Mark Blythe]

It's not a central bank problem like cut interest rates to 0.5%. It's not going to make the price of carrots any different. I know we're looking for reasons, we're looking for solutions in this incredibly volatile and complex moment. And it doesn't help that we have an administration whose policy seems to be. Is that a fire? I've got a bucket of gasoline. Right.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So with regard to the central bank, sum it up in a couple of sentences.

[Mark Blythe]

You know, great respect for central banks and central bankers. Many of my friends are central bankers. Right. I'm gonna put it this way. Independent central banks, you can't live with them, you can't live without them. They're really important institutions. There's a reason that almost every country has one, right? If you have money in banking and credit, chances are you'll have a central bank to keep them in line and make sure it doesn't blow up. The mistake that we made, if we made a mistake, was to basically treat these guys as the masters of the universe and they're not.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Mark, thank you so much.

[Mark Blythe]

Always a pleasure.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Mark Blythe is a professor of international economics and public affairs at Brown University. Coming up, a new documentary reveals how a Russian propaganda push in schools is preparing a new generation to die on the battlefield. This is on the media.

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[Brooke Gladstone]

This is on the Media. I'm Brooke Gladstone. What follows is a detailed account of the effort to indoctrinate school children by revising history, authorizing new texts, and monitoring teachers to ensure they follow the new rules. And no, it's not happening that way here yet. Though it could. It's happening in Russia and we can watch it happen in a new documentary now getting Oscar Buzz called Mr. Nobody against Putin. The titular nobody is Pavel, nicknamed Pasha Telenkin, the social director, AV guy and all round sounding board for students at the biggest primary school in Karabakh, a small town in the Ural Mountains where Stalin once sent undesirables to work in the copper smelting plant. Pasha was happy there until February of 2022 when the war in Ukraine came to town in the form of government directives to radically change the curriculum in an increasingly stomach churning effort to prepare the young for the battlefield. Because as Putin once said, commanders don't win wars, teachers win wars. Since Pasha was videotaping school activities anyway, he decided to tape everything and in an unimaginably risky leap of faith, sent it to documentary filmmaker David Borenstein, a man essentially unknown to him based in Copenhagen. The result is this gripping chronicle and cautionary tale. Pasha, hello. Hello. So the film starts in early 2022. You're a videographer and events coordinator at a primary school in Karabash, an industrial town in the Ural Mountains. Describe your job.

[Pasha Telenkin]

My job consisted of organizing all kinds of events, from concerts to holidays to cultural and intellectual events and even sometimes sports competitions. And I really loved it. It was amazing. I had a great director of the school and she would always call me into her office and say, okay, Pasha, what's the next surprise? What's your next new script? When Covid happened, we started filming a lot and doing a lot online. So after Covid, everyone thought, well, hey, we have all this experience of filming everything, so we can just keep filming. So yes, I would film everything that I would organize. I also had a kind of circle of some of the older kids, like an extracurricular where I would teach them and they would learn, they would film something and they would learn to edit. And some of my students would then go off and get part time jobs at the local television station and kind of earn a little bit of money. And I'm really, really proud of them.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You weren't just the professor of fun. In addition to the technical skills of editing and filming, what did you want to give them?

[Pasha Telenkin]

When I was in school, I never had any kind of place where I could just go anytime, sit with people and have tea and talk about big problems, small problems, just share what was going on in life. I never had a space like that that is safe.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Damn. Damn. Then In February of 22, Putin announces the full scale invasion of Ukraine. Things start changing dramatically.

[Pasha Telenkin]

So the 14th of March, literally just a few weeks after it happened, all of the directives started arriving at school with literally scripts for every class and what the teacher should say and how they should say it, and also video material and everything that they were supposed to include in their classes.

[Brooke Gladstone]

And what was the nature of that material?

[Pasha Telenkin]

At first the assistant director of the school told me that it was just going to, we were going to photograph it, but then called me and said, now it turns out we have to film it all. And so it had to be very carefully filmed so you could see the teacher and that they were reading from the script and that there were children in the room and it was full and that they were reacting to what they were told and that all of the video that was being sent to be included in the lesson was being projected and all of that needed to be proven. For example, I remember one of the very first ones, the teacher was reading from the script about how Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, we're all united countries, we all share language, we have the same fairy tales and the same past. Unfortunately, now Ukraine has gone onto a path of Nazification and we must free them. When I saw that first lesson, my glasses even fogged up. It was so powerful. And I understood that I didn't even morally have the right to delete this footage because I was capturing a very specific era in our country. It occurred to me, I thought, oh my God, we have so many schools all over Russia and we're all filming this, uploading this. Can it really be that there's some guy who's just sitting there and is going to watch all of this footage from all of the schools all over this country? So I did an experiment. I filmed a whole lesson, 45 minutes, an academic hour. But then I only included the first few minutes and the last few minutes, and everything else in between was black. There was no reaction. Nobody said, there's something wrong with your lesson. Maybe there was a camera technical problem, but we can't watch it. There was absolutely no response to it.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Many of the teachers resented, hated what they were being asked to do. But I think you took it harder than anyone else.

[Pasha Telenkin]

I realized that I was there to be the government. This signal for the teachers, watch out, we're here watching you. It wasn't to give the government this information. It was to be there for the teachers, to let them know that they were being watched.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You took a risk when you sent that lesson that was blacked out in the middle, and I want to know why. The film suggests this might have something to do with what your mother taught you.

[Pasha Telenkin]

In Russia, there is a holiday. On the ninth day after Easter, everybody goes to the cemetery. And there my mom would tell me different stories about who was who and who came from where. Our relatives. And for some reason, she would only tell me those stories of our family there at the cemetery. As I got older, she started telling me about this family member was repressed under Stalin, and this one, and this one was repressed, and this one was repressed. I was just sitting there incredulous and thinking, what was everybody in our family repressed under Stalin? And the next year, when we went to the cemetery, I hung a microphone on her and took a camera because I needed to hear these stories. Someday she's not going to be here. And then who's going to tell these stories? And who's going to know that all of our family were persecuted by Stalin and sent into exile out into Katabash? Before I left Russia, I gave that material on a flash drive to my sister. And I said, put this in the photo album. This is not for you. This is for your kids and for their kids. I just actually can't say why I did it. I just felt this compulsion to just do something. So all those things I did, Lady Gaga and the anthem and the flag and putting the X's on the windows. You know, there are all these kids around me, and they're also thinking people, but they don't have anyone to talk about all of this with. And when they saw all of that, it was like a signal to them that the school is not completely lost, that there are people that you can talk to. You're not alone. You're not alone. There are people for you.

[Brooke Gladstone]

But those events, playing the national anthem sung by Lady Gaga, not just in your office, but over the entire school audio system. And to black out the windows with X's in solidarity with Ukraine wasn't just for the students. That was for the whole community. And that was risky.

[Pasha Telenkin]

Yes, it was risky, but it was all right after Putin announced that the US Was now our enemy. And right after that announcement, I went and I grabbed the American flag and put it in my office.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So, naturally, then, some weeks later, you were scrolling on Instagram and you came across a post from a Russian web content company asking for people to submit stories about how their job had been changed by what Putin called the special military operation. And you responded with a long email describing your frustrations. And you said, I am a teacher forced to do the exact opposite of what a teacher should do.

[Pasha Telenkin]

That was because I was just so filled with fury. When there's that much fury inside you, you just act and you don't really think about what the consequences are going to be. I just. I was just so furious. At that moment. All of these lessons had been increasing and increasing and increasing, and I've been filming more and more and more material, and nobody was talking about it. Everybody was just silent. And so when that missive came out, I just was like, take it. Take it all. You have to see what's happening. You have to just take all of this so people know what's going on.

[Brooke Gladstone]

And that is why, even after Putin instituted a law that made it illegal for Russian nationals to collaborate with foreign workers, you were all in.

[Pasha Telenkin]

Of course, after I sent all of my angry words off to that media content company, they're like, oh, no, thank you. No, thank you. We don't need this. But they did send what I wrote around to each other, all of the creative team there, and that was how I wound up hearing from David. And so, on the one hand, I knew that working with an American director, I could get in a lot of trouble. But on the other hand, I thought it was great. It was cool that he was interested, and I felt like I had an obligation to work with him and share this material.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You film an interaction with another teacher, Pavel Abdelmanov. He's the one leading the new mandatory anthem ceremony at the school. He's a representative of the ruling party. You asked him in an interview format why he chose to be a history teacher and which historical figures he'd love to meet. They were basically the worst monsters of the Stalin era.

[Pasha Telenkin]

I'm tell you A little secret. When I interviewed him, I was utterly floored, completely speechless, when I heard all of the heroes that he was describing that he would like to meet. I texted one of my students that was in the next room and said, you have to come here and relieve me. And so my student came in and switched places with me and he finished the interview. We showed the film in Czechia, and at one of our screenings a director came. I'm sorry, I don't remember his name. He said, you know, if anybody had ever come to me with a script that had a character who dressed like him and who spoke like him, and who gave those answers questions, I would have sent them back to film school and said, learn how to write characters better, because that was too much on the nose. There's no way that that could ever be realistic and could ever happen.

[Brooke Gladstone]

The Wagner mercenaries came to your school with weapons as props, and you filmed scenes of children holding landmines, big heavy guns, and heard stories of death and glory. The footage of this is truly incredible.

[Pasha Telenkin]

The arrival of the Wagner mercenaries had a huge impression on me, you know, because there were welcoming words spoken by the teachers, like, guys, we have visitors. They're here. They want to talk to you all. If they had really said everything to the kids, they would have said, okay, guys, we have visitors here today. The Wagner group, they're mercenaries in many countries. They're terrorists, swear for hire, they kill people and they rape people and they steal. And many of them have been in prison for killing and raping and stealing. And here they're going to come now and talk to you all about what they did. If you see the film, you'll see that there's this one teacher who's constantly putting her back to the camera and trying to stand in between the camera and the Wagner things. And I just felt like if that's what she's doing, then maybe everything isn't all lost and maybe we still have a chance. That if you can feel the shame for what's happening, it was just really, really unpleasant that they were in the school now.

[Brooke Gladstone]

The film features a few students who are always in your office, especially Masha and Vanya, who'd recently graduated. Masha wanted to go to medical school. She was also very stressed out by her brother's deployment to Ukraine. Vanya was working in a liquor store. He's pondering his next steps. Over a two year period, we track exactly how their lives were altered by this war. I mean, these students knew they were getting filmed by you, a teacher they trusted they loved, but they didn't know it might be seen by the world. Was that tough for you to negotiate.

[Pasha Telenkin]

With Vanya? It wasn't difficult. He just called me up and said, okay, I'm being shipped away. Come and film my goodbye celebration. He and I had talked before that and had kind of a plan if he had been called up. We were going to figure something out. But instead he was called up and he just told me to come film his goodbye. With Masha, it was more complicated, but I think it was really important to show that story. A lot of people don't understand it, but let me give an analogy. Let's imagine that Masha's brother is dying from cancer. But it's not a secret, and everybody knows that he's going to die. But imagine that in school, Masha is asked to write poems in praise of cancer and draw pictures all about how wonderful cancer is. And it is forced to celebrate all the time this wonderful thing, cancer. So imagine what that would have been like for her and what that was like for her. We, of course, never talked about this openly, but I knew that she would be supportive of this. And that's what happened in the end. And in the end, when she finally saw it, she said, why is there so little of me in this film?

[Brooke Gladstone]

In 2024, one day you looked outside your apartment window and you noticed a police car parked just below. And that's when you knew you had to leave.

[Pasha Telenkin]

That police car was under my window three days in a row, observing from 8 in the morning. It arrived to 8pm when it left, I didn't understand why it was there. And like, nothing had happen to provoke it. And it's not like the police are gonna call you up and say, hey, we've been hearing things. What's this about you working with some American? What's gonna happen is they're gonna show up in the middle of the night and yank you out of your bed in your underwear. And then they're gonna say, look, here is all of the correspondence that we have of you and this other person. Let's talk about it.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You said goodbye to the town with a list of all the horrible things that you love about it. The poisonous air, the ugly buildings, the mountains stained black with particulates from the copper mining. The life expectancy of the town is what, 38? And yet it was clear you sincerely regretted having to leave. How could you love that place?

[Pasha Telenkin]

A turtle can't help but love its shell. For example, you talked about those black mountains. It's completely Poisoned land, those black mountains. But all around those black mountains is such incredibly green forest. And there are so many birds that sing so beautifully. I've never heard birds sing like they do in that forest. And also those concrete houses, those panel houses, all identical with the big gray slab. The houses are all the same. The windows and the balconies and everything in them are so different. You know, one will have skis there and one will have plants. And I think how different all of the life inside those apartment buildings is. And I can give a lot of examples for each of those things that I love about the town. And I have to say, the people there, they love me too.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Have you heard from them?

[Pasha Telenkin]

You know, when we finished it, I was like, okay, we're done. David, what are people gonna think about the film? And he said, pasha, prepare yourself. There are gonna be very, very different reactions to the film. Like, for example, some of the parents of the kids in the school wrote to me and said, yes, we knew they were doing lessons, but we had no idea about what the content of those lessons were. And my old teacher came to my mom and said, I washed it. And I wept and I wept and I wept. A few weeks ago, a journalist came to Karabash. Russia Today. Russia Today. They wanted to film how all of the parents are filing complaints against me because I filmed their kids. And they left with absolutely no material because everybody refused to go with them and be filmed filing complaints. Isn't that cool?

[Amazon Music Announcer]

Them?

[Brooke Gladstone]

You said that the film is a textbook, a lesson. Look what awaits you if you are apolitical, if you are weak, if you give in to self censorship.

[Pasha Telenkin]

I'm really, really sorry that everything has come to this. And of course, it now touches your country as well. And after we've had screenings of the film here and this, teachers have come up to me clutching their hearts and saying, we're just a little bit away from that here ourselves. This film is about what little steps we have. From your school desk to your grave is only one step. And there's another step, and that's from the teacher's desk to the Oscar shortlist.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Pasha, this was a blast. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you too. Pasha Telenkin is the star and co creator of Mr. Nobody against Putin. Great. Thanks to filmmaker and Mr. Nobody executive producer Robin Hessman for translating so brilliantly on the fly. Coming up, the filmmaker who was receiving Pasha's video. This is on the media.

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[Brooke Gladstone]

This is on the Media. I'm Brooke Gladstone. We've just heard from Pasha Talankin, the whistleblower slash AV guy, protagonist of the new documentary Mr. Nobody Against Putin. Now we'll hear from filmmaker David Borenstein, who is far away in Copenhagen just after Putin invaded Ukraine, dreaming for a chance like this.

[David Borenstein]

This came to me right when it had just happened and no one believed that it was going to happen. And I was so curious, what is fueling this within Russia? And here it was, the answer right in front of us.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Well, I had a burning question while watching the film. Who was filming Pasha while Pasha was filming?

[David Borenstein]

In the beginning, there was also a DP of mine that went someone that filmed Pasha as well.

[Brooke Gladstone]

But how did the director of photography get into the school?

[David Borenstein]

Pasha simply went up to the principal and said, listen, you've given me so much extra work. I have to do my normal job. I have to do these propaganda classes and I have to film them now. I need help. So this person is going to come in and help me. They're my friend. And that was how we started filming in the school. And in the beginning I knew that Pasha was filming the propaganda classes, but he had responded to a casting call on and so in the beginning I was starting to look at him more as a character. But after that, DP went to shoot him for the first time. There was a folder of material delivered to me that was Pasha's material. And Pasha's material was by far the best material.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You told our producer that first you think he's a whistleblower, you'll make a film like Navalny, and then you realize that the film is also School of Rock.

[David Borenstein]

That's exactly how it felt. He is a whistleblower. He recorded every minute of Russia's Patriotic Education Program program implemented all across Russia and occupied Ukraine. And that is an archive now, he did that. But, you know, as a filmmaker, you look at these kind of whistleblowing films and they tend to have a certain tone, political thriller or something like this. But the footage that Pasha sent me was so far from that tone at times. He has this classroom where all of the kids are hanging out every day. And it's so heartwarming. The footage felt like it could come out of, like, Mr. Holland's opus. And so as an editor, it was really a challenge actually to try to figure out what is the overall tone of this film because he is such a special guy. He is not the typical person to become this international whistleblower.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You said that Pasha's footage made you think of the psychology of living through increasing authoritarianism and what that does to a person.

[Mark Blythe]

Yeah.

[David Borenstein]

You know, the way I experienced this film was by getting footage uploaded to me every single day on an encrypted FTP server. Every morning I would get something new from Pasha and sometimes from the dp. I every day I did this over more than two years, saw how things were changing, how in the beginning of the shoot, when the full scale invasion had just happened, how people were laughing and they were making fun of them. And certainly humor is a very important way throughout history that people have dealt with authoritarianism.

[Brooke Gladstone]

There was humor in this film.

[David Borenstein]

But I also noticed as time went on that the absurdity was internalized. And that even happened to me too, at the very end. One of the last clips I got was the clip of Wagner's soldiers teaching in the school. It was the most absurd clip and the most brutal clip that Pasha delivered to me.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Describe.

[David Borenstein]

So Wagner soldiers are handing out landmines to a group of young students, maybe 13 or 14 year old, and telling them that they need to avoid these once they get on the battlefield. They then take out a metal helmet and say, when you put one of these on, make sure that you don't clip it. Because if you get shot in the head with this on it will break your neck if it's clipped. You can see on their faces, they can't believe they're looking at this. But you know, the way I experienced this was strange because I had seen so much propaganda content from this school that I actually didn't recognize it as something unbelievable. I had looked at hundreds of hours of propaganda classes and this intensification didn't even register. And I didn't put it in the film. It wasn't until later someone came back and said, did you really not put this in the film? I had gotten so used to this propaganda that I couldn't even recognize that as ridiculous anymore. And I do fear that that's how it works in the school as well.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Tell me about a scene that you found particularly stunning that your mouth just sort of hit the table about propaganda, about anything.

[David Borenstein]

I was always really fascinated with Pasha as a character. And it became really obvious sometime in that he would have to leave Russia in order to make the. And I knew that he was kind of grappling with the fact that he would have to sacrifice his entire life in Russia in order to make this film. And in the days before he was leaving, he did a self shot interview where he just sets up the camera and looks into it and he just lists the things that he loves about his town. The dirty buildings, the snow, and how cold it makes you. This was named one of the most polluted cities in the world by UNESCO. But he loves it so much. It was something that I always wondered, like, is he working with us? Maybe because he wants to leave. Like, I hadn't met him in person the whole time that we were making.

[Brooke Gladstone]

It over the two year period.

[David Borenstein]

Yeah, I only met him after he fled. But when I watched that footage, I truly realized he loves Russia and he loves his hometown. This is a sacrifice. But he feels very strongly about showing the world what's happening in his school.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I asked Pasha if you guys ever came into conflict and he said, well, at the beginning you had to find a rhythm. Was he understating any serious conflict you might have had at the start over what this film was going to be about?

[David Borenstein]

What is beautiful about this film to me is that it is a co directorship, a collaboration between me, a filmmaker living in Copenhagen, and Pasha, the schoolteacher in Karabash? In any co directorship, you need to find a shared vision, and that requires. Pasha's goal was political. He wanted to show the world what was happening in his school. But my job was to find a way to tell that as a story. And I quickly became really obsessed with him as a character.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Did he resist? And was there a moment when he finally just gave in?

[David Borenstein]

There were times where he's like, why don't you make yourself a character in the film? And I was like, no, that doesn't make any sense to me. There wasn't really any time that we had any serious disagreement. But what made it difficult to get on the same page at times were security measures. And so in the beginning of our collaboration, we worked together with the BBC to have some security plan.

[Brooke Gladstone]

How did they help?

[David Borenstein]

Well, first they gave us money to do a security review. And then throughout the process, their editorial policy team gave us feedback on how to protect the characters in the film. For example, at the end they went frame by frame and they helped us determine what lines by characters might get them in trouble in Russia. And that's an unfortunate thing we have to do because it doesn't result in a 100% accurate depiction of what everyone's thinking in that town. But it's the reality. We cannot have teachers or students remaining in Karabash criticizing Vladimir Putin in our film. That would be incredibly destructive for them.

[Brooke Gladstone]

There are a lot of expressive eyes, though.

[David Borenstein]

There are expressive eyes and the BBC did not cut those out. But by far the most daunting task to get over was this determination that the best thing Pasha had going for him for his security was that his colleagues and the people in Karbash wouldn't believe him even if he said he was working on this film.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Oh, when was that?

[David Borenstein]

He's walking down the hall and people are like, what are you doing? He goes, oh, I'm filming a film for the BBC. And everyone's like, ha, ha ha. Just keep on going. Some of the security advice that we got was don't share a cut of the film that you're working on with Pasha. Because if this film were to start circulating around Karabash, it could be game over for him. That was the most difficult thing between us. Cause imagine this relationship where you are putting your life on the line, filming things, uploading them every day. But it's a one way relationship. He's sending stuff to me, I'm editing, but I'm sending nothing back to him. That is difficult. When we finally met each other after he had fled Russia in Istanbul and I finally showed him a real cut of the film, he watched it. I was looking at his face the whole time he was watching it. I was so nervous. He was not really reacting at all. It was Russian style, but at the end. The first thing he said to me was, David, I was 50% certain this whole thing was a. And he meant it. I mean, it was just such an unbelievable experience to be sending footage but getting nothing in return.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So you're getting this flood of footage for two years every day. Yeah. How did you select which example of propaganda to put in the film?

[David Borenstein]

Propaganda is something that I'm really interested in. I filmed propaganda in China when I was living there. Propaganda is embedded in a local culture. It's different. Different wherever you are. Russian propaganda is different from Chinese propaganda.

[Odoo Announcer]

How so?

[David Borenstein]

Well, you know, I spent many years living in China. And what I noticed in China is that people tend to parrot propaganda, internalize propaganda, and believe the propaganda much more. The propaganda is designed to convince. In Russia, what we saw in this footage is not really an attempt to. To convince. It is about making you do stupid and absurd things so many times that you become too cynical to resist. You don't see a lot of people in this film mimicking the propaganda. He talks with his mother. His mother isn't mimicking the propaganda. He's simply saying, all boys go to war. All boys die in war. Life is suffering, and life is suffering is what Russian propaganda makes you think. There will never be anything better than this. Everything is.

[Brooke Gladstone]

That is a fantastic description of two different kinds of propaganda. Just brilliant, really. Okay. You frame the picture with. In fact, the minute it opens up, I'm seeing and I go, okay. The whole film's gonna be a flashback. He is hearing on the phone a voice of a woman explaining to him in Russian what he needs to do to leave unmolested and go to Turkey for a quote unquote vacation, which was his cover story.

[David Borenstein]

That woman is my translator, so that was me talking to him. But when he left Russia, he packed just as if he was going on a seven day vacation. He left his house as if he was coming back. I was really scared for him. I didn't know how it would be going through the border. And then finally we got to meet. I was suddenly so much more relaxed than I had been in so long. For me, I felt so much responsibility for Pasha. And if he were to have gotten into trouble, if he weren't able to get past the border, if he wasn't able to get a visa to the European Union. Once we got to Istanbul, which was our plan, then it would all fall apart. And so I was really nervous. But when he finally got to Istanbul, we felt more free.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Do you have a favorite reaction to the film?

[David Borenstein]

Yeah. I do. Pavel Abdulmanov.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Oh yeah, the history teacher. Stalinist.

[Mark Blythe]

Yeah.

[David Borenstein]

Pasha texted him the other day when I was with him. He wished him happy birthday because he saw it was Pavel Abdelmanov's birthday and Pavel texted back and said, pasha, I wish you all the best. I truly do.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Thank you so much. Thank you. David Borenstein is the co director with Pasha Talankin of Mr. Nobody Against Putin, which opens January 21st at the IFC in New York City and then in select theaters in the US and Canada. It will be available to stream from January 22. And that's the show on the Media is produced by Molly Rosen, Rebecca Clark Callender and Candice Wong. Travis Mannon is our video producer. Our Technical director is Jennifer Munson with engineering from Jared Paul. Eloise Blondio is our senior producer and our executive producer is Katya Rogers. On the Media is produced by wnyc. Micah Lowinger will be back next week. I'm Brooke Gladstone.

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