Episode 10 - I Hope You Find Peace One Day

Summary

Once Upon A Con: Episode 10 - "I Hope You Find Peace One Day"

In the compelling finale of Season 1 of Once Upon A Con, hosted by Caroline D'Amore, listeners are taken on an emotional journey through deception, betrayal, and the pursuit of justice. This episode, titled "I Hope You Find Peace One Day," delves into the story of Caroline and her colleague Sean Kushner, who fell victim to David Bloom—a charismatic con artist posing as a successful entrepreneur.

Introduction: The Downfall of David Bloom ([02:51] - [02:58])

Caroline opens the episode with a significant update on David Bloom's legal troubles:

Caroline D'Amore ([02:11]): "Con artist David Bloom is finally sitting in prison. Felony counts against him are being brought forward."

She highlights the gravity of the charges:

Sean Kushner ([02:58]): "We're bringing him charges that could expose him up to 14 years in prison."

Despite these developments, Bloom remains free awaiting trial, allowing Caroline to uncover more victims and the extensive damage he has caused.

The First Encounter: Building Trust ([03:17] - [04:15])

Sean Kushner recounts his initial meeting with Bloom, which took place in a seemingly ordinary setting:

Sean Kushner ([03:17]): "I was at a high ho burger eating a burger with my wife... and up comes the guy cleaning tables and inserts David Blum into our lives."

Sean describes Bloom's approach:

Sean Kushner ([04:09]): "He was charging his phone outside and was just talking... By the end of the dinner, he had us believing he was one of the owners of HiHO."

Bloom's ability to blend into their lives and present himself as a successful business owner laid the foundation for his elaborate scam.

Establishing the Facade: Genuine Concern and Assistance ([04:15] - [07:35])

Bloom's charm and apparent knowledge in various fields made him seem trustworthy:

Sean Kushner ([07:26]): "He definitely was a super intelligent dude... very Crafty with how he delivered his information."

Bloom's consistent check-ins with Sean and Caroline fostered a sense of genuine care:

Sean Kushner ([07:35]): "He never asked for anything. He was just trying to help us."

This facade of selfless assistance made it difficult for the couple to suspect any ulterior motives.

The Grand Offer: A Way Out of Financial Strain ([07:35] - [13:01])

Bloom escalated his involvement by offering substantial financial help:

Sean Kushner ([08:31]): "He started offering to help us find a better home... for less than $3,000 a month because you deserve to put money away."

The promise of a secure home for their daughter and financial stability was too enticing to ignore, even as doubts began to surface.

Red Flags and Growing Suspicion ([13:01] - [16:43])

Despite the generous offers, inconsistencies started to emerge. Sean and Caroline began to notice discrepancies:

Sean Kushner ([16:01]): "He sent me a fake email from Hotel Du Cap asking for our information... It looked like it was coming from them."

The mention of high-profile connections, such as dating Jennifer Aniston and meeting the President, further raised suspicions:

Sean Kushner ([17:59]): "He said he was dating Jennifer Aniston... That's when my wife and I looked at each other. We're like, no, this is not real."

The Moment of Realization: Unmasking the Con ([16:43] - [21:04])

The turning point came when Bloom's grandiose claims could no longer be substantiated. Caroline shares:

Caroline D'Amore ([20:18]): "One look at his teeth, and, you know, he's not dating Jennifer Aniston."

Their attempts to verify Bloom's identity online yielded no credible information, confirming their worst fears.

Emotional Impact: The Aftermath of Betrayal ([21:40] - [27:17])

The emotional toll of the con was profound. Sean describes the psychological devastation:

Sean Kushner ([24:10]): "It was like you feel like your whole world is crashing down, like nothing's ever going to be okay."

Caroline adds depth to the emotional narrative:

Caroline D'Amore ([26:35]): "It's such a feeling when you find out the truth and everyone is bonded in that feeling of the lowest of the lows... It's cruel on so many levels."

Seeking Justice: Legal Proceedings ([22:11] - [24:28])

Caroline emphasizes the ongoing struggle for justice:

Caroline D'Amore ([02:24]): "It's been two years since he conned me, and I'm still learning of new victims and more lives that he's ruined."

Despite filing 18 felony counts, Bloom remains free, underscoring the challenges victims face in holding con artists accountable.

Forgiveness and Moving Forward ([27:17] - [29:42])

In a poignant conclusion, Sean reflects on forgiveness:

Sean Kushner ([27:34]): "I would probably start off by telling him I forgive him for what he did... I hope you find peace one day."

He shares his path to healing:

Sean Kushner ([28:36]): "Things are better than they've ever been... I realize how unimportant that [material offers] is."

Notable Quotes

• Caroline D'Amore ([02:11]): "Con artist David Bloom is finally sitting in prison. Felony counts against him."
• Sean Kushner ([07:35]): "He never asked for anything. He was just trying to help us."
• Sean Kushner ([16:05]): "I don’t feel good about this... something’s off."
• Sean Kushner ([20:18]): "We got played. This guy's not real."
• Sean Kushner ([27:34]): "I forgive him... I hope you find peace one day."

Conclusion: Lessons Learned and Hope for the Future

Episode 10 of Once Upon A Con serves as a powerful testament to the resilience of its victims. Caroline and Sean's journey from trust to betrayal, and finally to forgiveness, offers invaluable lessons on the importance of vigilance and the human capacity to heal. Their story not only sheds light on the manipulative tactics of con artists like David Bloom but also highlights the strength required to overcome such profound personal losses.

Listeners are left with a profound sense of empathy and understanding, recognizing that the scars of deception run deep, yet healing and forgiveness remain possible.

Transcript

[Caroline D'Amore]

In a world of economic uncertainty and workplace transformation, learn to lead by example. From visionary C Suite executives like Shannon Schuyler of PwC and Will Pearson of iHeartMedia, the Good Teacher explains the great teacher inspires.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Don't always leave your team to do the work.

[Sean Kushner]

That's been the most important part of.

[Larison Campbell]

How to lead by example.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Listen to leading by Example executives making an impact on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week, we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Larison Campbell]

In Mississippi, Yazoo clay keeps secrets.

[Sean Kushner]

7,000 bodies out there. Or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum cemetery.

[Sean Kushner]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not Larson. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Previously on Once Upon a Con.

[Sean Kushner]

We're here to announce today that we are filing a total of 18 felony counts against David Bloom. Nine counts for fraud and nine counts for grand theft.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Con artist David Blume is finally sitting in prison. Felony counts against him.

[Sean Kushner]

We're very pleased to say that after this tremendous amount of work by the LAPD and then by our prosecutors, we're bringing him charges that could expose him up to 14 years in prison.

[Caroline D'Amore]

It's now August of 2024, and Bloom still has no trial scheduled. It's been two years since he conned me, and I'm still learning of new victims and more lives that he's ruined.

[Sean Kushner]

When that rug gets pulled, you know, it's like you feel like your whole world is crashing down, like nothing's ever going to be okay. And like the world is a fraud. Everything is just, you know, nothing is real.

[Caroline D'Amore]

I'm Caroline D'Amore, and this is Once Upon a Con. Episode 10. I hope you find peace one day. Well, can you give us a little background on you? I'm talking to Sean Kushner. He reached out to me after I posted on my Instagram outing Bloom as a con man in the fall of 2022.

[Sean Kushner]

So I was a hardcore alcoholic drug addict, and I ended up getting sober out in LA. And I've been sober almost 17 years, but I literally started working in mental health, working at rehabs in between, you know, doing a lot of other LA jobs when you're figuring your life out with no education, etc.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Yeah. Wait, congratulations on 17 years, by the way. That's a really. That's.

[Sean Kushner]

Thank you.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Welcome.

[Sean Kushner]

Thank you. So, long story short, I was at a high ho burger eating a burger with my wife, and it was like one of the first days we had gotten out after having a baby, and one of the first nights out in a long time, and up comes the guy cleaning tables and insert David Blum into our lives.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Wait a minute. Was working at the restaurant, cleaning tables.

[Sean Kushner]

Was cleaning tables at hi Ho.

[Caroline D'Amore]

No way.

[Sean Kushner]

And charging to me. He started just chatting it up with us and I was like, all right, whatever. This, you know, this weird old crazy guy cleaning tables is, you know, he was charging his phone outside and, like, going in and out, and he was just, you know, and started talking. And he was interesting. Like, the guy definitely was an interesting person. You know, we're just talking about, you know, we had just left an art show and he knew a lot about art. He starts talking about. I'm like, this guy can't just be cleaning tables. I was like, I don't even know what this guy's deal is. And by the end of the dinner, he had gotten them to bring us free milkshakes. I don't know what the fuck this guy was doing, but by the end of the meal, he had told us that he actually was one of the owners of HiHO. So I was like, oh, this makes sense. Yeah. I mean, he was not only telling us that he was, you know, an owner of HiHO, but he also told us he was owner, part owner of the entire chain, which is linked in with, you know, sugar fish and the. The new over the pasta place next door. So even went as far as telling us that he. He went to go get fish early in the morning with Kazunori and, like, how he would check to make sure the fish was good by looking at the eyeballs and just going into detail with all this weird stuff that you don't just like, randomly just know or. Or just randomly tell people that you've met it, you know, dinner while eating a burger. But, you know, he definitely was a super intelligent dude. Like, I mean, and very Crafty with how he delivered, you know, his information and asked information. And so he got my number and then immediately, you know, exchange numbers. And the next day he starts just hitting me up and just kind of slow rolling his way into our lives and. Hey, so how's your wife feeling today? How's everything going? Like, super, super, like, sweet and, you know, loving. Like, just checking on her a lot. And we had, just had a daughter and somebody that, you know, somebody that does something and, you know. Right. Makes you feel like, okay, this is probably somebody to be that would be good to stay in touch with for, you know, whatever reason down the road, whatever connections down the road, because that's just, you know, how LA goes.

[Caroline D'Amore]

So then he starts calling you guys and did you guys start hanging out right away or what happened next?

[Sean Kushner]

It wasn't. It was like maybe a week or two later he invited us out to. What's that place called over off Melrose?

[Caroline D'Amore]

Craig's. Craig's. Which I'm super proud that I've, I've gotten him kicked out since, by the way, he's no longer allowed in. Craig.

[Sean Kushner]

Well, hopefully he's never allowed out, period, anywhere. But he, you know, he knows the hostess. He knows, you know, it was Craig. I was like, all right, so another layer of the onion peeled of, you know, the exec that is David Bloom, who's talking about all the stocks he owns while at dinner. You know, the, the Netflix, the. All these different stocks, which I will add, I follow a lot of, you know, stocks and whatnot. And they were all doing extremely well. And everything he talked about, he's definitely researched.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Yeah, like, he won't bring up a stock if it's not actually Ipoing, you know, like, he, he definitely know doing so.

[Sean Kushner]

And then it just went like that. Daily check ins hitting me up every morning asking how the day was going. Never asked for anything. Like, he never asked me for anything. Never asked me for favors, never asked, you know, for me to introduce him to anybody. He was just like, you know, people like you deserve a leg up. People like you. I want to help you. So it was a lot of like, how can I help you? How can I make your day better? How can I check on you to see how you two are doing? How's the baby? Like, a lot of that, which, you know, you don't get a lot of that in, you know, in the world unless it's like, people that you know well or people that are just. Just super caring people. And I was just like, who is this Weird old guy. Why is he, you know, why is he so nice? And it catches you off guard because you're like, oh, what a. What a breath of fresh air. And then. And then there was a part of me that, you know, I could. I could tell that he had a drinking problem. So then there was a part of me that was like, okay, he seems like a lonely rich guy. He probably needs some help. I'll help him out.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Yeah, yeah. He. I remember he would drink very early in the morning, an entire glass of, like, hard alcohol, like, right away. Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Kushner]

And he was open about it. He flat out, like. He was super open. He's like, I tried the thing. I tried being sober, and I, you know, I tried that lifestyle, and, you know, it didn't work for me. You know, this works for me. And I was like, okay, whatever. And, like, the back of my head, I'm like, that's what everybody says, but, you know, so, you know, I'll entertain it. This guy's lonely or something, so whatever. Just be friendly with him and help him out and whatever. And then slowly but surely, he starts, like, inching his way further in and further in, and then just things start getting weirder and weirder, and you're just like, what is. Something's off.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Can you give me an example? Like, so.

[Sean Kushner]

So we were. We were getting ready to move. We. We were in the house that was, you know, and, like, Mar Vista, and we were getting ready to move and look for a place because, you know, we just had the baby, and. And the. The setup was, like, horrible for a kid. And we were like, okay, we've got to find something that makes more sense. And I just let him know. I was like, yeah, we're getting ready to, like, look for a place. And he's like, I know this. What's his name? I know this guy that owns Ms. Lala, and he's a real estate guy. Let me find you a house. I was like, I'm good, bro. Like, you know, we just got Westside rentals and apartments Dot com. We'll find something. He's like, no, I'm gonna find you something you deserve. Like, somebody to help you out for once. And I'm gonna help you guys out. And I was like, okay. And, you know, he's like, I'm gonna send you a list, a couple listings every day for the next few days. And you, like, send a couple listings, like, beautiful houses, right? And I'm like, looking at my wife. I'm like. I'm like, okay, what is this. And, And I was like, look, I was like, these are probably out of our, our, our budget. So I'm like, we're. We're good, man. Like, don't, don't worry about us. Like, we'll figure this out. He's like, no, any place out of all these that you see, I'm gonna help you get into for less than $3,000 a month because you guys deserve to put money away and you deserve to be in a place that your child can grow and, and you guys can be a happy family and all this weird stuff. And I was like, I was like, okay, whatever, bro. And I'm like, this guy is insane. I was like, he either is super rich and this is legit, or he's just a crazy old guy. And so my wife and I were both like, on the fence and like, a little bit like, this can't be real, but at the same time, like, like, what if this is real? What if this is real? Like, are we finally gonna get a break in life? Like, are we finally gonna. You know, it's like, yeah, all of our, all of our good deeds and, and karma is finally coming back.

[Caroline D'Amore]

And this is what he does. He. He dangles the carrot. And that's so cool, right? Like, just by being a good person, this good person wants to help this good person, and that's how you feel, and he plays on your heartstrings with that.

[Sean Kushner]

It's like, this is with, you know, a new baby. So we're dealing with like, you know, my wife's not working. I'm working and covering both the household and all, like, post covet coming out of, you know, everybody's tight with money and everything's like falling apart and. And I'm like burning through savings. And I was just like, oh my God, this is like, this is, you know, God is answering our prayers. So, yeah, we like pick this place. So I let him know that we were moving and he had already. David had already like, set this woman up to talk to me and like, telling me that like, everything was being set up and like the, you know, phone and electricity and like, talking this different stuff. And. And then the client was like, found a place over there. And I was like, look, I was like, I'm not moving until I am 100 sure that this is legit and there's like, no weird stuff with this. And he didn't listen. He went like, locked down a lease at this place. Then he was like asking us for the set up this account to send money to this lady. So it was going to be first, last, and deposit for this house. And I was like, well, I need to see paperwork. And I was like, I need to see everything. I want to have it, like, checked out. Because he was like, it's going to be in your name. We're going to put in a trust and we're gonna, you know, this is gonna be a set up in a trust in your daughter's name. The house is gonna go to her down the road, and all you're doing is paying $3,000 a month that goes into a savings account because I don't need the money. And it's going to pay the mortgage for the house so your daughter will own it down the road. And I'm just like, okay, this is just like too good to be true.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.

[Sean Kushner]

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

[Jeremy Hobson]

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

[Larison Campbell]

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

[Sean Kushner]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Jeremy, Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

[Sean Kushner]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

[Sean Kushner]

Hi, my name is Venkat.

[Caroline D'Amore]

I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

[Sean Kushner]

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Larison Campbell]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation. It's terrible, terrible dirt. Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Sean Kushner]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.

[Sean Kushner]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

[Sean Kushner]

Nobody talks about it, Nobody has any information.

[Larison Campbell]

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Sean Kushner]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Sean Kushner is telling me about the scam David Blum pulled on him. At this point, Bloom is mid con trying to lure Sean in with the promise of a cheap house that would eventually be going to his daughter.

[Sean Kushner]

He.

[Caroline D'Amore]

He just needs a first and last deposit to go to some unknown woman's account.

[Sean Kushner]

And then like, it was like a week we were waiting, and then another week we were waiting and I was like, this isn't going through. I told my wife, I was like, this is not going through. There's something, something off. And. And like we were super anxious. New baby. I was just like, I was like, if this is not real, I'm going to kill this guy. So this was like, right as we started pushing more, I was like, look, I was like, what's the deal with this? He's like, it's okay. And he's like, and by the way, I'm going to leave for the summer, but I'm going to the south of France. And before I leave, this will all be set up and you guys are going to come with me. I'm going to put you on a plane to come out and stay with me and I'll have a nanny there for your daughter.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Can I ask you, was it Hotel Du Cap?

[Sean Kushner]

Of course it was.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Of course it was.

[Sean Kushner]

Yeah.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Yeah. Wow.

[Sean Kushner]

So he was saying he's going to send us the hotel to cab and sending. Then he sent me a fake email from them asking for our information. So it like it looked like it was coming from them. I was like, what the hell? So, and then I, I like, I even said to my wife, I was like, why is it two colors? I was like, this message, it like it looks like it's been edited. And I was like, I don't, I don't feel good. I don't have a good feeling about this. But like, there's that part of you that still is just like, but doesn't it? If we are going to south of France and we're gonna stay at a fifty thousand dollar for, you know, a couple weeks hotel and like our daughter will be taken care of and we're gonna just, you know. So there's like that party.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Yeah. It's not even just like, well, what if we get this? It's also like, nobody in their right mind would ever go that far to do something so crazy. That's where my mind kept going. Whether it was like, this big amazing thing too. Even though every time I would question it and then I'd be like, no, I'm being. I'm the one being weird. Because no one would ever do that. No one would ever spend that much time like. Like, lying to somebody. It's just unheard of.

[Sean Kushner]

I'm an ex addict, alcoholic junkie. Like, I was a not a good person out there when I was, like, using. Like, I would scam anybody I could, and I would, you know, whatever I had to do to, like, get what I needed, I would do. And I didn't think for a second this dude was doing anything like what I was, like, capable of. He was that believable to me. And, like, no matter how much the spidey senses were going off or how much it felt off or how much we were just like. My wife and I were just like, man, this dude is not for real. Like, it wasn't until he knew that we were starting to figure it out. And then he went as far as saying, like, before we go there, like, I'm. I have to fly to San Francisco because I have to meet with the president. Convince us that he knew the president. And I was just like, okay, bro.

[Caroline D'Amore]

The President of the United States?

[Sean Kushner]

Yeah, President of the United States. And that he was going to some fundraiser at. At what's his name's house, Ron Burko, huh? No, he told me. He told me he played tennis with Ron Burke on Ashton Kutcher regularly, though, over there too. I was just like. So it started kind of narrowing in. And the. The craziest part about all this is so, like, he convinces. He was like. He's like, you guys should come and meet him. I was like, yeah, okay, bro. I was like, we'll come meet the president with you. And at this point.

[Caroline D'Amore]

At this point, though, what are you saying to him? Are you. At this point, do you. Are you. Have you caught on? Did you realize it was not real anymore?

[Sean Kushner]

No, not at this point. So at this point, I'm still like. I'm like, holy. I was like, this is the guy that's gonna, like, you know, for. For 15 years of helping people. This is the guy that's gonna repay me and, like, he's gonna, like, set my family up, telling me he's gonna, like, buy Nvidia stock and put in my daughter's Name as, like, Nvidia's doubling and tripling and, like, going, you know, skyrocketing. I'm just like, holy. There's no way. This can't be real. Told my dad, like, I kept it a secret from. From pretty much my family for like, a month and a half, two months, because I. I was just like, they're gonna think I'm crazy. They're never gonna believe me. Like, when I finally told my dad, he's like, that's. He's like, that's not real. He's like, there's no way that's real. And I started kind of like, you know, started to be like, okay. I was like, it wasn't until he. He bailed on. So we were supposed to meet him, and then he, like, pulled some weird stunt where. Where he, like, canceled us and. And he can. He said that he was dating Jennifer Aniston. That's when my wife and I looked at each other. We're like, no, this is not real. It wasn't. It wasn't the President. It wasn't the Hotel Du Cap. It wasn't the restaurants that he owned. It wasn't all these famous people he talked about. It was. It was when he said he was dating Jennifer Aniston. My wife and I looked at each other. We're like, we got played. This guy's not real. Yeah, that's when we knew.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Wow, he's so good. He's so good. But that one. Nah, one look. One look at his teeth, and, you know, he's not dating Jennifer Aniston.

[Sean Kushner]

Oh, my God. Like, his. Oh, God. All for. I'll remember those teeth for the rest of my life.

[Caroline D'Amore]

So the Jennifer Aniston thing happens. You guys realize he's bullshit. Did you call him on it?

[Sean Kushner]

No, we didn't call on him on it yet. It was. So at this point, my wife's mom was. Was down visiting us, and she's like, you guys, this is not real. I'm gonna Google his name. I'm gonna find him. I was like, we Googled him. There's nothing about him. Because he told us a different name.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Oh, what was the name he told you guys?

[Sean Kushner]

He said Bloomberg. And. Yeah, so he said David something Bloomberg. And there's nothing on. On Bloomberg. And her and her mom started, like, looking people up, and they found him. They found, like, the Instagram post and stuff.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Oh, my Instagram post.

[Sean Kushner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I didn't say anything still. I. I waited for him to text me, and then I just, like, I wrote this, like, long, like, really, like, weird, twisted text to kind of, like, reel him in on some stuff and then blasted him with all this different stuff so he could, like, he would read the whole thing and then, like, it sucked in so he had to read the rest. And then I just blasted him.

[Caroline D'Amore]

I was like, did you send him my Instagram post?

[Sean Kushner]

No, but I also had the message I sent him, which was it pretty much spoke about everything. Wow. And then he just disappeared.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.

[Sean Kushner]

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

[Jeremy Hobson]

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

[Sean Kushner]

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

[Sean Kushner]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Jeremy, Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

[Sean Kushner]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

[Sean Kushner]

Hi, my name is Venkat.

[Caroline D'Amore]

I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

[Sean Kushner]

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Larison Campbell]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

[Sean Kushner]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Larison Campbell]

Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Sean Kushner]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.

[Sean Kushner]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

[Sean Kushner]

Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information.

[Larison Campbell]

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Sean Kushner]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazu Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Caroline D'Amore]

After months of promising Sean he will change his life by moving his entire family into a new home. He got them for a steal. A home that will eventually become his daughter's. Flying him to the south of France and meeting the President of the United States. David Bloom is gone like the wind. Through it all, Sean never gives Bloom a scent. But the emotional carnage is brutal.

[Sean Kushner]

And then I had to like, pick up the pieces and reel back in like everything that it screwed up for me because like, the, the money would have been less damaging if I had just paid him that money. It would have been way less damaging than the emotional stuff that it did to us.

[Caroline D'Amore]

So can you explain that to me a little bit? Like, how did he, like, how did it like, emotionally kind of, you know.

[Sean Kushner]

I mean, you think, you think that you have, you. You're a married couple in LA coming out of COVID with a five or six month old baby at this point. Was it? No. So, yeah, like five or six month old baby. So you're dealing with like no sleep. You're dealing with all the stress that comes with being a new parent. And then you have this like, guy that's like, you know, trying to like band aid everything and make you feel like everything's gonna be okay. And then when that rug gets pulled, you know, it's like you feel like your whole world is crashing down. Like nothing's ever gonna be okay. And like the world is a fraud. Everything is just, you know, nothing is real. And like, why would, if, if there's a God, why would God allow something so horrible to happen to people? And they, and it was like a real test of faith. The craziest part about it is like, like nothing, nothing makes more sense than the fact that his docket number in jail starts with 666.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Wow. I actually didn't even know that.

[Sean Kushner]

Oh, yeah.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Wow. Yeah. No, he really is like somebody who gets, like you said, gets off on.

[Sean Kushner]

Yeah.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Taking really good people and taking them on a ride, thinking, you know, playing, messing with their hopes and dreams and family and innocent, kind, loving people. And it's such a. It's such a feeling when you find out that truth and everybody and all of us are kind of bonded in that feeling of the lowest of the lows. It's a combination of, of rejection, humiliation, and just that all of everything that you've been kind of planning has prevented you from doing all of this other stuff. It's cruel on so many levels. And this could happen to anyone if it's happened to us.

[Sean Kushner]

You know, not only that, but it's like a. You know, don't. If it's something is too good to be true, then don't, don't. Don't like, you know, doubt your spidey senses or doubt your inner gut. It's just like, you know, there. There are evil people in the world, and, you know, the universe can't protect everybody from everything, and evil will lurk and evil will do evil things. And that's like, you know, that's what this dude was all about. The fact that he can't stop doing it and kept doing it and kept to jail for it just proves that. And he's. He'll never stop. So I pray that they, like, keep him locked away because he'll just do it again.

[Caroline D'Amore]

So, Sean, I've kind of always thought about what I would say if I was ever face to face with him. Do you ever think about that moment and, like, what you would say to him?

[Sean Kushner]

I would probably start off by telling him I forgive him for what he did and that I understand that he's sick. And, you know, what he does to people, it's like it goes far beyond just, like, some weird high that he gets. And I would say, look, you know, you didn't rob me of any money, but you robbed me of emotional time with my family. You robbed me of my sanity at some times. You robbed me of my peace of mind for months. You know, what you did to us, like, no amount of money could ever repay what you did to my family in those times, of my daughter's early development. But I forgive you at this point, and I hope you find peace one day.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Wow. I actually just got the chills. On a more positive note, how is your life now? Like, how have you kind of, you know, gotten past it and where are you at now?

[Sean Kushner]

Well, got past it. It lit something inside of me that was like, look, like, don't ever deny your faith. Don't ever deny, like, what you believe in. And things are better than they've ever been, you know, I have another daughter that's due in, like, you know, a couple months. You know. Thank you. Work's the best it's ever been. My wife is healthy and happy. I'm healthy and happy. Our daughter, firstborn daughter, is healthy and happy. And that's, like, number one. And don't, like, I don't look at, like, some stuff like a bougie house or a trip to France or any of these things that kind of, like, diverted my attention before. I don't look at that stuff. Like, I realize, like, how unimportant that is. And but in the at the time I, you know, was super angry at the guy, but now I just see him for what he is, just a sick soul and, you know, there's a lot of sick souls out there and can't help them all and, you know, happy to move forward. And I hope the guy just learns his lesson and finds some sort of happiness, some point in his life and stops doing this to people.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Yeah, that's a really evolved way to look at it. Sean. You've definitely come a long way since, since we talked last, but that is really beautiful. All right, guys, thank you so much for listening to this season of Once Upon a Con, Wall Street Whiz Kid. If and only if you enjoyed this season, pretty please rate us five stars on Apple Podcast, Leave a review and share it with others. We really, really appreciate you. Once Upon a Con is a production of AYR Media and 32 Flavors, hosted by me, Caroline D'Amores executive producers Aliza Rosen for Ayr Media, Alex Baskin for 32 Flavors and Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions. Written by Eliza Rosen Producer Caroline D'Amore Edited and mixed by Justin Longer Be Engineering by Justin Longer Beam Our theme song, Freshly Served, was written and performed by the incredibly talented Maddie Noyes and is available on her SoundCloud Foreign.

[Sean Kushner]

This.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video phone or chat. Here's BetterHelp head of clinical operations Hesu Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy.

[Sean Kushner]

I think a lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that, you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships, that could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody. There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com today. That's betterhelp.com in a world of economic uncertainty and workplace transformation, learn to lead by example. From visionary C suite executives like Shannon Schuyler of PwC and Will Pearson of iHeartMedia, the Good Teacher explains the great teacher inspires.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Don't always leave your team to do the work.

[Sean Kushner]

That's been the most important part of.

[Larison Campbell]

How to Lead by Example Listen to.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Leading by Example Executives making an impact on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts we live.

[Jeremy Hobson]

In a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Larison Campbell]

In Mississippi, Yazoo clay keeps secrets.

[Sean Kushner]

7,000 bodies out there or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum cemetery.

[Sean Kushner]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety, something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.