Once We Were Spacemen – Episode 8

"Once We Had Some Not-So-Horrible Bosses with Alexi Hawley"

Podcast Hosts: Nathan Fillion & Alan Tudyk
Guest: Alexi Hawley (Showrunner, Writer, Producer, Director)
Release Date: December 24, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Nathan Fillion and Alan Tudyk sit down with Alexi Hawley—a veteran showrunner, writer, and executive producer known for shows like "The Rookie" and "Castle." The episode dives deep into the craft, chaos, and business realities of showrunning in today’s TV landscape. With warm camaraderie and genuine admiration, Nathan and Alan tease out Alexi’s journey: from a creative New York upbringing through mishaps and milestones in Hollywood, culminating in the unique community built on "The Rookie." Along the way, they explore what makes a great boss in the entertainment biz, how TV is adapting to digital generations, and how resilience and integrity drive lasting success.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Showrunning: Art Meets Finance

• Dual Responsibilities: Alexi describes showrunning as “one of the true left brain, right brain jobs” (08:52), balancing creative vision with rigorous budget and management tasks.
• Training Ground: No standardized path; most learn by rising through the writers’ room hierarchy and hands-on set experience (10:23).
• Bridging Worlds: Nathan notes Alexi has “a foot in both worlds,” bridging artistry and business—“He’s a pimp and a sex worker. He’s pimping himself out” jokes Alan (05:34).

2. Alexi’s Path: From Creative Roots to Showrunning

• Family Influence: Alexi’s mother was a writer (including children’s books like "A Child’s Guide to Freud" and “How to Turn Lemons Into Money”)—early exposure to creativity and curiosity (11:33).
• Drumming & Day Jobs: Played in a band, met his wife through music, and started writing at a bored day job in a law firm (13:35).
• Breakthroughs & Hustle: Gained representation via stage readings (with Bill Macy, Juliana Margulies, etc.) and had to hustle out of necessity with four kids (14:35).
• TV Entry: Entered TV via "The Unusuals" and then joined "Castle" for three seasons, with "The Rookie" as his first solo showrunning gig (16:52).
• Resiliency: Navigated union strikes, show cancellations, and financial pressures (16:04).

3. Building and Maintaining a Great Team

• Philosophy: Alexi intentionally “collects people along the way” and values creating a workspace where “the business is hard enough, my job is to create a space where it’s easy” (17:29).
• Opportunity & Luck: Both Nathan and Alexi recognize so much career advancement comes down to timing and what you do with the breaks you get (19:35).
• Learning on the Job: Alexi admits early mistakes—season one was “a clusterfuck in several different ways” due to inexperience but learned on the fly (19:51).
• Showrunning Challenges: Balancing episodes with varying budgets, such as justifying overseas shoots (“I didn’t ask for any money—I’ll cover it”) and learning the production ropes by trial and error (21:45).

4. The Rookie’s Unusual Success & Cultural Resonance

• Multi-Generational Appeal: "The Rookie" is watched by everyone from kids to seniors; demographics include audiences too young to even be measured (27:32).
• TikTok Effect: The show’s “digestible,” frequently TikTok-ready segments have brought in a younger audience. “We do have sometimes teasers or one-scene stories that are funny or tell a complete [story] within a minute... Very digestible for TikTok. Like literally as if we designed it for TikTok, which we didn’t” (28:50).
• Streaming Impact: The series placed top 10 in streaming charts, despite fewer episodes than competitors (28:29).
• Show as Comfort Food: “We are one of those shows that have become comfort food for what I call the anxiety generation,” Alexi says, noting present-day uncertainties make these kinds of shows deeply resonant (29:50).

5. Responsibility & Community in Hard Times

• Supporting Cast & Crew: Both Nathan and Alexi helped create a Rookie Relief Fund during COVID and the strikes, providing financial support to team members in need (35:59).
• Leadership Philosophy: “Look, it’s the right thing to do... For us to be in a position, enough of a successful position that we can [help]…” (36:42).
• Changing Economics: Alexi discusses how TV economics have changed, with fewer “overall deals” for writers and tightening pay scales even at the showrunner level (37:01).

6. The Realities of TV Careers: Growth, Luck, Typecasting

• Typecasting & Opportunity: Careers are shaped by opportunity more than planning—he jokes, “your career is whatever job you got offered” (24:31).
• Transition to Directing: Alexi started directing not from a burning desire, but as a natural outgrowth of his visual writing style (25:01).
• The Rookie’s Origin Story: Nathan’s casting was part of the initial pitch, making it a rare process where the show was sold directly to series without a pilot (44:53).

7. The Strains and Rewards of the Job

• Maintaining Quality: Alexi is proud that “I don’t think we’ve done a single episode that I don’t think is great...” (34:13).
• Community Impact: Nathan and Alexi reflect on the personal stories from fans—families connecting over the show, viewers experiencing comfort in tough times (31:52).
• Work-Life Balance: Despite juggling multiple shows, Alexi keeps up drumming (with his kid) and loves softball as ways to decompress (38:54).

8. What Makes a “Not-So-Horrible Boss”?

• Both Nathan and Alan reflect on how excellent leadership involves not just artistic instincts, but the courage and care to support a sprawling team—Alexi being a prime example (49:17, 56:44).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Showrunning Duality:
  “I describe it as one of the true left brain, right brain jobs... You're both head of the entire creative entity of the show, but also running budgets, 300 people... Some episodes are too big, some you have to make smaller... You learn by doing.”
  —Alexi Hawley (08:52)

• On Leadership:
  “Because you are honest, you have to make cool decisions because you're not going to lie about anything. So you keep everything up front, which is something I admire.”
  —Nathan Fillion (16:58)

• On Collecting Talent:
  “When I find people who are really good, who I get along with, and who I think are just really good at their jobs, I try and keep them around... But the problem is, when people are really good at their jobs, they're often working.”
  —Alexi Hawley (19:02)

• On the Show’s Youth Appeal:
  “Our show is set up really well for the TikTok generation... [We have] one-scene stories that are funny or tell a complete [story] within a minute... Very digestible for TikTok, like literally as if we designed it for TikTok, which we didn’t.”
  —Alexi Hawley (28:50)

• On Building Community:
  “What you did... was basically saying ‘we're not going to let you or your families suffer.’... And the loyalty that you’ve garnered with that, I just, I applaud you, my friend.”
  —Nathan Fillion (36:15)

• On the Hardest Episodes:
  “I was told coming up there was actually sort of math involved... great episodes, good episodes, and a few that are fine, and then a few that you’re like, 'oh, fuck, how did that happen?' We’ve never had that on this show.”
  —Alexi Hawley (34:13)

• On Industry Uncertainty:
  “Your career is whatever job you got offered... The smallest number of people hit a grand slam out of the gate... for most of us, you go for five auditions and one person says yes.”
  —Nathan Fillion (24:31)

• On Bosses & Mentors:
  “I'm saying it right now. It's Alexi Hawley. This guy has dramatically improved the quality of my life.”
  —Nathan Fillion (56:44)

Important Timestamps

• Comic Con / "Resident Alien" Cancellation (02:32)
• Role of the Showrunner (08:52)
• Alexi’s Family & Creative Upbringing (11:33)
• Breaking into TV (16:01)
• Collecting Collaborators/Team Ethos (19:02, 19:35)
• Lessons from Showrunning "The Rookie" (19:51)
• Managing Budgets–Taking the Show to Prague (21:45)
• The TikTok Generation & Streaming Success (28:50)
• Fan Stories & Show’s Comfort Value (31:52)
• Handling COVID and Strikes/Rookie Relief Fund (35:59)
• Economics of TV & Shrinking Opportunities (37:01)
• Balancing TV, Family, and Drums (38:54)
• Origins of "The Rookie"—Selling Direct to Series (44:53)
• Best Bosses Discussion/Frank Oz Anecdote (52:31, 53:46)
• Nathan Proclaims Alexi as Best Boss (56:44)

Tone & Style

This episode is marked by humor, candor, warmth, and a shared affection between all three participants. Nathan and Alan keep things light and irreverent (Alan's running jokes about hats, showrunning as “being beaten to death by your dream”), but the conversation never shies away from the real demands of TV production, maintaining empathy and enthusiasm throughout.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

You’ll walk away from this episode with a deep appreciation for the unseen labor behind your favorite TV dramas, the fierce loyalty and community built by a great leader like Alexi Hawley, and a few genuinely funny stories about the backstage chaos of making hit TV. The episode is both a love letter to the creative process and a lesson in leadership, resilience, and collaboration—on set and beyond.