A (1:47)

I don't recall a lot of studying and.

B (1:52)

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't. No, don't. No, no, no, no, no, nothing like that. What I did was I went back to my old university and I did a commencement speech for which they give you an honorary doctorate. So this is. You're looking at a fellow who. I didn't graduate from this university. I transferred from there to another university where I also didn't graduate. I dropped out to start my career where I moved out to New York and met the grand Alan Tudyk, the most wonderful burrito waiter in all of New York, and Juilliard student.

A (2:26)

What kind of doctor are you? Like honorary? What do you want? What kind of field do you want to go into?

B (2:32)

You don't have any options. You can't pick. But no, there's a certificate hanging on my wall over there that says Honorary Doctor of Laws.

A (2:40)

Of Laws. Well, that. Of law, that's.

B (2:43)

Yes. Laws.

A (2:45)

Oh, I don't think there is such.

B (2:46)

A thing as a doll. And all the, you know, it says all the honors and. And things that are included forthwith, like everything that comes along with it, which is. I don't think anything. Here's what I do know. The only thing that as a doctor, I'm allowed to prescribe is more cowbell.

A (3:03)

Ah, nice.

B (3:05)

So if you've got a fever.

A (3:10)

You'Ve got the prescription. How nice. Did they give you a prescription pad by any chance? That was going to be my next question.

B (3:16)

No, I can print one of those up willy nilly. I think anybody can do that thing. But this is why I bring it up, first of all, to toot my own horn. Thank you very much. Second, I spoke to this congregation of young graduates about success, and I wanted to talk today about both success and failure.

A (3:38)

Okay. I have a personal relationship with both of those things, so.

B (3:42)

Excellent. This is going to be great then, because I consider you an expert on these topics. What would you consider to be your steps to success? The things that you have done that have brought you in your life, in your career, in your relationships? Success.

A (4:05)

Okay, Just to make sure. Success being, like, winning and doing well, not sucking at sex, which is. I get that too.

B (4:12)

That's. That's right. That's the first one.

A (4:14)

That's the first one.

B (4:15)

The second one. That's. We're going to do another episode all.

A (4:17)

About that, but all about sucking at sex. Okay, but this is about sex. Success.

B (4:22)

Success, yes.

A (4:24)

What are my steps to success?

B (4:28)

I.

C (4:30)

Don'T.

B (4:30)

Jesus. I thought. Listen, I thought you'd just start prattling these off because look, look. Look who you are. Look where you are. Look at your career. Look at this long list of. There's a. I'm looking at your IMDb page right now. Beep, boop, boop. It's huge.

A (4:42)

I don't think of that as success, though. I see that as just work. That is just work as far as being successful in work. So I'm focusing on work now. I think it's doing a good job, being prepared when you're doing your work and being committed and always learning. Like, don't come into a job saying, I got all the answers. Come into the job with what you're bringing or, you know, what I bring to the job. And then as I go learn. And after every job, I feel like every job is an opportunity to learn. I do a little postmortem on the job. Like, what did this job bring me? What was the point of this job as far as the overall working life? You know, what did I pick up from this? And I try to Pick up something from every job so that I'm always improving. I think that can lead to more work, which once listed on IMDb starts to resemble something like sucking at sex.

B (5:43)

Now, this is a side note. How many times have you been asked what drew you to this role? And how far off base is that question? People think out there in the world that you pick your roles.

A (5:57)

I kind of do what I say no a lot.

B (6:01)

Certainly you say no, but you can't just say, you know what next I'm going to do a Sci Fi series. So what drew me to the idea that I wanted to do a Sci Fi series? It doesn't happen like that. You get an offer, you know, opportunity.

A (6:14)

I get what you're saying. And this is definitely a thing that what opportunities present themselves to you are what you do. Because choosing this or that or this or that isn't always available. That's, that's, that's what I know. Some, some very successful celebrities do that. Like, let me line up this year. And they just like planes coming into.

B (6:36)

Yeah, but that's not the vast, that's not the 99% of us.

A (6:39)

No, that's those assholes anyway. No, that they're very nice people. They've just become assholes.

B (6:46)

Oh, God.

A (6:47)

See, this is why I suck at sex. Listen. But I think one of the biggest things that I found the hardest to do in work, again, this is about work is what to say yes to and what to say no to. Because I've been presented things by agents and managers and things that go, you really should want to do this for this reason, this reason, this reason, and this reason. And I'm not feeling it, I'm not drawn to it in any way, but I feel like I need to say yes because they know more than me because they've been in the business longer for whatever reason. Or do I follow my gut instinct and say, no, I don't want to do this? I'm thinking of a sitcom right now that I said no to, but I barely said no to it. It did make me laugh once. I didn't like it at all. But they were like, where your career is now, you have to do this. I was like, oh. But I said no. And then instead, you know what I did? I don't know. But I, I, I could probably look at my IMDb page. It would tell me I did something not very profitable, actually.

B (7:55)

All right, back to.

A (7:56)

Yeah, sorry, go on.

B (7:58)

No, no, not sorry I, I, I pulled you off that. And I'm saying, I said I was going to get back here. So here we are, we're going back. You said one of the things was being prepared, but also taking that preparation, walking in and not feeling like you have all the answers, but being ready to learn.

A (8:16)

Yes, I think about ready to learn on the job. When I'm auditioning, I think I'm bringing in my take and I definitely want to take notes. I. I love that I would do that in, in an audition situation. I always say, before I started, I'd say, before we start, what's the number one thing that you keep having to tell people over and over again? That people keep. There's a trap that people keep falling into. They'll be like, oh, thank you. Yes. Don't play this angry. This isn't an angry scene. He's coming in happy. This catches him off guard, and then he slowly becomes, you know, then the events of the scene take over and, you know, let that happen, but don't come in angry.

B (8:50)

Great.

A (8:51)

And I start off like that. So I'm learning from the beginning. I'm learning from what they've been experiencing, but I'm realizing it is good to listen. They're trying to help you. They want to help you listen to their notes. Because I haven't always done that. I've gone, I don't like your note. In my head, I'm going to do it my way so you can see my way of doing it. And if you like my way, then you'll hire me. And if you don't, you won't. But I believe that attitude, mister, is why I was like the 117th actor they brought into on Resident Alien. Why did it take them? 116 people that they went, nope, all right, bring in Alan Tudyk. Why did it take them that long? Because the casting director I had auditioned for before and she gave me a note and I ignored it in front of the director. And I think she put me on her don't call that guy in list. Because if you want to say a weird alien, I'd be on the top. You know, 50 people you'd bring in.

B (9:51)

At least you had history.

A (9:53)

I had had history. For more on this story, listen to episode three at timestamp 15 minutes and 28 seconds. I now realize in hindsight, even though I did end up getting Resident Alien, listen and learn, listen and learn and work with people, because showing off may not.

B (10:17)

You know what?

A (10:18)

You never know. There's so many stories that they say, I didn't listen and I did this and I got It. I just took off my clothes and went craz. They love me. Just whatever's meant to be is meant to be. But going back to you. Yes. Be prepared and learn. And I think learning is important. And being open to learning. Being open to.

B (10:36)

Yeah.

A (10:36)

Working with people in whatever you do.

B (10:40)

All right. Another step, I think, for my success. And tell me if this. If this applies to you, if this. If this rings true for you at all.

A (10:46)

Real quick, doctor, does this look infected?

B (10:50)

Not the kind of doctor. Not that kind of doctor. No. Put that away. That's. That's. Shouldn't. Should that be pussy like that? I don't know. I don't know. This should be oozing as much. How.

A (10:59)

Chee Mama.

B (11:01)

So gratitude. Yes, Gratitude, Yes.

A (11:07)

Gratitude's the key to life. I think you're right. That's very important. I know a lot of people who, you know, they wake up in the morning and they go through a list or even write down a list of things that they're grateful for as a way to start off the day. I've done it. Whenever times are tough, I tend to be bad about it. Like, I wait until I'm really under the gun and feeling stressed and stressed about so many things. I'll write a gratitude list when I wake up. And it can be anything. Like my dog. I'm grateful for my dog that she gives me so much love when I hold her, because some dogs are dicks and mine isn't at all. She's a bitch. She's a female. It can be, you know, just that I'm living a new day. I think that kind of gratitude. Do you mean like grateful in a work environment? I guess I'm grateful for that, too.

B (11:54)

Listen, certainly that's gonna. That's gonna have to be part of it, right? I would say probably one of the best things to happen to my career was after I finished my three years of steady employment and incredibly fantastic learning experience on the soap opera in New York City, I moved out here to la and I got a bunch of projects right off the bat. One of them was Saving Private Ryan.

A (12:18)

Right.

B (12:18)

Working with Steven Spielberg. I mean, I was on a rocket to the top. And then I couldn't get a job to save my life for a year, and I watched my savings dwindle to nothing. And then I was paying my rent on credit. What I was waiting for a tax return to come back to pay off my debt and then move back to New York and get ready to call them up and get back on the soap. They said that's an option. Come on back anytime.

A (12:46)

For more on this story, listen to episode three at timestamp 35 minutes and 52 seconds.

B (12:55)

And I was ready. I was making that call. As I'm reaching for the phone, it rings, and I had a job on a sitcom. And then before that week was done, I got a job in the soundstage next door to do a different sitcom. And that sitcom kept me for two and a half years. Cool. And that was the rolling ball that got me to where I am now. But that year of unemployment made me understand how tenuous success in this industry can be and how grateful I am to be working. And I was introduced to the concept of. They called it first Rise. Someone says, maybe they're young, maybe they're just coming to acting late in life, a rookie, if you will. And they say, I'm gonna be an actor. I'm gonna try this out, see what happens. And they hit huge success. And they go, this is easy, but it's not easy. You got lucky. But sometimes they think it's easy and they crap all over their opportunities and they crap all over their relationships. And when it's over, there's no golden ticket to now I get another job, and now I get another job, and now I get a job. No, no, no, no. You blown your reputation. Everyone knows you're an a hole and no one wants to work with you anymore.

A (14:10)

Hollywood is littered with those people. That type of thing is something that happens definitely in this business. It's a tricky thing. You have to believe in yourself to a point that when people tell you no, you have to be like, they're wrong, I'm right. And then at what point do you stop saying, they're wrong, I'm right. Some people get lost in the I'm right also, too.

B (14:31)

I think I've met people and worked with people who just. We have a fundamental difference in our belief system as to how to treat other people.

A (14:41)

Oh, yeah, well, you're good at that. You know how to treat people. You were raised right, boy. You were raised.

B (14:48)

I think we all know the difference between right and wrong here. But I think people will sometimes get into this particular industry and become the center of attention and start to think, oh, my poop don't stink, and no one's here to tell me no. So gloves are off and I'm a behavior problem. And all of a sudden, I mean, Hollywood is fickle. The audience is fickle. The opportunities don't just keep coming. You got lucky.

A (15:12)

Luck is a huge part of It. Yeah, I feel like it goes in cycles too. Like, I don't know, are we supposed to live this long? I've always been interested in people's careers. I'm always going, what happened to that guy? What happened to that guy? What happened. That lady? What happened to that lady? Like, what do they do now? Were really famous. There are some people who were so very famous that they had their moment and then they moved on. And now what do they do?

B (15:38)

What is next for Alan Tudyk? Let's say this. Everything, everything is over. Tomorrow you just decide, you know what? I'm good without acting anymore. I'm gonna now fill in the blank, right? What's if not acting?

A (15:52)

Right.

B (15:53)

Or directing or the industry? Would you stay in the industry? Would you write and direct?

A (15:57)

I would write. At least I'd write and then if I needed to, I would direct. But I enjoy writing. I've been doing that all morning before talking to you. When it works, it's so fulfilling to me. And when the world is kind of creeping in and becoming a little too hard to handle, all I have to do is write. If I get something good that I like, that just comes out of nowhere, out of my brain that I can enjoy, or it'll make me laugh or just. I just like, I feel better about existence.

B (16:27)

You and I were catching up the other day. I was in Prague and we FaceTimed. You were sharing this, this very thing with me and you said there are mornings and I get up and I. Something's wrong. I don't feel right. I just feel like I'm not doing. And if I write something, if I start creating something, I feel great.

A (16:45)

Yeah.

B (16:46)

I think your creative juices, if you will, are your qi. And if you block that flow, you get all backed up.

A (16:57)

Oh, I don't. What is chi?

B (17:00)

It's energy.

A (17:02)

I know that it's runny because it's running and it's flowing.

B (17:06)

It's energy. It's energy. Your chi, it's what they're with, what they're manipulating with the. What's that slow martial art that looks like a dance?

A (17:13)

Tai chi. That's the one in the title. I did it for. I did it for the last time. I did the Rookie.

B (17:19)

The Rookie. That's absolutely true. I actually, you know what? When I was in Prague, we flipped on the tv, and under CSI New York, I turned it on, was the Rookie. And that was the episode under CSI New York. Yeah. Strangely enough, during the channel and it's you and me talking and we're speaking Czech.

A (17:39)

Ooh. I've always wanted to learn it. I'm so glad I finally did great. East Problem. That's all I remember. But that is an English word. When we did a night still there. Es Problem is problem. That seemed to happen a lot. Lots of problem.

B (18:00)

That's strange. Third step to success.

A (18:02)

Third step to success.

B (18:04)

My third step to success. The third of three. Pretending to be bold.

A (18:09)

I like that. Because if you wait around for boldness, that doesn't happen often.

B (18:15)

Uh huh. And pretending more often than not will suffice.

A (18:22)

Right? Explain to me what is. Yeah, your. Your version of pretending to be bold.

B (18:28)

So that quiet desperation. If you've ever sat in on auditions, if you're an actor out there, by the way, and you have an opportunity to go in for a casting director and be the reader, you can sit through 50 auditions, do it, do it. Because you will see just how terrible everyone can be. Because of nerves.

A (18:51)

Oh, I see.

B (18:52)

Because of nerves. If it's like full on, I'm sweating and shaking and I can't get my face to stop twitching, or just quiet desperation. You laugh at everything, even though it's not a joke and you're clearly desperate, it's uncomfortable. That was me, top to bottom, man. On a scale of 1 to 10, I ran the gamut. I was racked with nerves. After a year, I would audition five times a week and not get anything. I just said. Finally I said, I just want to fricking leave the room with my dignity. So I decided I'm going to walk into this room playing a character, and that character is Nathan Fillion, professional actor. Hi, I'm Nathan Fillion. If you were to hire me, this is who you get. I'm not here to be your best friend. I'm here to show you what I can do. That bit where you say, okay, do you mind if I sit for this? No, I need you to stand. And it throws you off. I would say, all right, I'll stand. I can act in all sorts of positions. You can't throw Nathan filling a professional actor, you can't offset him. When the phone starts to ring in the middle of my audition, I. I'll stop and say, do you want to get that or shall I? You know what I mean?

A (20:11)

A million professional actors got some sass. He does.

B (20:13)

He's got some sass. He's a freaking professional. He's here for a reason. I start the audition, I blow it. I don't say, ooh, can I start again? I don't ask permission I just say I'm starting again and I start again.

A (20:24)

That's good.

B (20:26)

It's in my control. And I also say, like you said, you were kind of basically saying, what do you. You have to tell everybody about this before they, you know, what's the thing that, the mistake that everybody's making. People always ask, do you have any questions? Yeah, I always had one acquiesce to their expertise, but clearly this is happening. But to what extent is it happening? Oh, it's more like this. This.

A (20:47)

This.

B (20:47)

Great. Let me show you what I prepared. And when I'm done, you tell me if you want to see it any differently. I give them permission to direct me when I'm done, before I'm done. So that there's no awkward moment of I. I don't know how you would feel if I told you to change it. Yeah, you've given them permission. I'm totally into changing it. I'm directable. This is Nathan filling, professional actor. You can direct me.

A (21:10)

Yeah. Because they can also be in a situation where they're like, I don't want to impose and anything like that. So you're giving them that permission. So they are. It puts them at ease also.

B (21:19)

You take the stink off it. We're all here for one reason. Let's see if we can make something great.

A (21:25)

Nice.

B (21:26)

I once, I once went in for a part and the reader was so dry, I just stopped and looked at the casting director people. I said, hold on one second. And I looked at him, I said, hey, brother, I know you've done this 50 times and you're tired of it already. I've only got this one shot at it, so give me a little something. Put a little heart into it. I know you haven't put a little heart into it. Give me something to work off of. Let's make something amazing. You and me together. All right, let's go again.

A (21:51)

And that weird game was Tom Hardy.

B (21:54)

And he did it. And you know what? He really made something of himself.

A (21:56)

He said, try with an English accent. And he went, okay.

B (22:00)

He said, I'm. I'm going to do this voice.

A (22:06)

I know a lot about cement.

B (22:09)

If you need, if you need to break out of an escaping from prison, just do some push ups. All right?

A (22:17)

Yes. That's. You said that to the guy. How did he do, did he, did he get better?

B (22:22)

He pulled it out.

A (22:24)

Nice.

B (22:25)

He pulled it out because I didn't, I didn't try to embarrass him or anything. I just said, hey, man, I get it. But I've only got this one shot. I'm relying on you. This is. I want to work this job. I want. I want this part. So give me something I can work off of. Let's you and me make something. And then we were done. This scene, I went. I'm going to say it right now. If I don't get this part. Please give it to him. You're great.

A (22:45)

Nice.

B (22:45)

You're great. And right. Do a little clap. Clap, clap. But I controlled it. The factors that were within my control, I didn't let it throw me. I controlled it. Now, that's something that. That's not something that I would do or feel comfortable doing, honestly. But Nathan feeling professional actor, the guy I was pretending to be, is far more bold.

A (23:07)

That's great. Yeah, I'll try that. Okay, I'm gonna try it. I'll try.

B (23:14)

When was the last time you auditioned for something, Alan?

A (23:16)

Dude, I audition all the time. I'm. Because I am a character actor. And a lot of the things that I do, people are like, oh, I liked him in this, but this role is very different. And so they need to see that I can do it, do a different thing. They can't add up. Well, he did a pirate. He did this. He did this guy. I've seen this. All of those amount to something. And I almost feel better about that, going in and showing them what I'm going to do, because then they know. Because I think maybe what I choose to do isn't what everybody else is doing, because I get that a lot. Like, huh, that's weird. You.

B (23:54)

You interpret a part and you pull something out of it that no one else does.

A (23:58)

Well, some, yes, I'll find something in it that I can relate to. And. But I think it also comes from. I don't get acting. Like, I don't. I don't know. I. Oh. I realized, like, when I was growing up, I'd watch people act and I would like things that I like. Like, let's say, what's his ass? Gene Wild.

B (24:14)

Tom Hardy. Oh, right. Gene Wild. Tom Hardy.

A (24:15)

No. Well, I can't imagine being like, I'm going to be the next Tom Hardy. Alan, you're failing.

B (24:24)

You're doing it all wrong.

A (24:25)

That's what you think he's doing. Gene Wilder. When I was little, I would do. I would. You know, I practice doing things the way he did them. And there's a lot of actors that I love who played, like, regular roles. Like, I call them just like the regular roles that I never try to do it the way they do it. Because I don't even consider that to be something I should be trying to do, like just the. I don't know, the guy. I can't just play the guy. I'm always that other guy who's doing that other thing. So it's always usually the people they bring in. I'm like, I'm the other guy. I'd like to play the guy. Sometimes the guy is the other guy. But does that make any sense? Good. There was. I had a. I had a crappy acting teacher when I first went to college. I had two crappy acting teachers when I first went to college back in Texas. The first one, I don't know, I don't want to say he was crappy. The first acting teacher I had at this little college in East Texas would have these truth talks with all of his students where he'd pull you into his office, he'd say, you're not gonna make it. He told that to a lot of them.

B (25:31)

Did he tell it to you?

A (25:32)

No, he told me, he said, alan, I think you might have what it takes. You're not gonna be a leading actor, but you are gonna be a character actor. And sometimes the character actor, the characters can be the leads. So you might be a lead in something as one of these character people. And I'll be damned if he isn't. Right. That's what happened.

B (25:50)

Interesting. Interesting.

A (25:52)

Like right, right now, resident Alien. It was, you know, doing that show. And that's a character role.

B (26:00)

Yeah. Somewhere out there that teacher is watching and he's. And he's saying. Called it.

A (26:05)

Called it. Yeah. And I hope he's doing well. He was, he was having a tough time last time I saw him. So I hope he's doing well. And, you know, I don't know. Right now I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to write my next role. I think the business has turned into a thing where I. I don't know, I can't wait around for my next role because again, I'm sort of. I'm a special teams actor. And the guy you bring in when you're like, we got a robot, who do we got? I got an alien. Who do we got? I think maybe one of the, like, most straight up things I've ever done was with you in Firefly playing Wash. That was the closest. That's closest thing to me.

B (26:40)

I saw you in a play in New York City with the father from Frasier.

A (26:44)

Oh, right. A Prelude to a Kiss.

B (26:46)

You were the guy. You were the handsome lead actor. The guy.

A (26:54)

Thank you. Yeah. You know, on stage, I did get to play the guy. I did get to play the guy on stage. And when I first moved into film and television, I saw myself hopefully getting to be that guy. But that's not really how it's played out. And I'm okay with that. I feel like the guy that I used to want to be in films and television doesn't really exist, or I'm not him, or I don't know, I want to be a writer now.

B (27:18)

I used to think that I only wanted to play roles that were likable. And to me that meant perfect. He was like the nice guy that everybody likes. I wanted to be that guy. I didn't want to make crappy choices. I didn't want to make bad decisions. I didn't want to have flaws. And it took a while for me to figure out, oh, wait a minute. Flaws are what make people like you in the sense that they can actually relate to you in the sense that they can, at the very least sit back in judgment of you.

A (27:50)

Yes.

B (27:50)

Especially in comedy.

A (27:52)

Yes.

B (27:53)

If you want to know what to do, lean back on your flaws.

A (27:57)

Yeah. Now you know how many good looking leading man types have a sense of humor? I mean, I guess you probably do know a lot because for some reason, good looking leading man types all know each other. You, you know, like, you go over a party at Nathan's house and it's like, who are all these guys? They're like, what? That's how I met the guy who's the tracker. Like, that was years ago. He wasn't tracker yet, but it's like handsome like that. Like, there's guys.

B (28:23)

Oh, Justin. You're talking about Justin. I don't know.

A (28:25)

I didn't catch his name. I was too mesmerized by his eyes. But like, you have a thing where you, you have a sense of humor and you're, you have leading man good looks and that is, that's rare. Usually when you get humor, you get me.

B (28:46)

Hello. Here's something I'm going to argue with. My brother and I talk about this all the time. We don't think we're good looking by any means. We don't think we're ugly, but we're not good looking. I think if there's a secret to looking good for me, it's keeping my distance.

A (29:02)

Why? Because you look better at a distance?

B (29:04)

Heck yeah. Just a little blur. Too close. Back up that zoom, cameraman. If there's anything special about me is the fact that I'm on tv. I'm not going to argue. Go ahead, think it. Anybody who wants to think. But there are good looking fellows out there. I am not everybody's cup of tea. Wow. That's a fact.

A (29:23)

Just.

B (29:24)

Okay, just. Thank you. I love that you said there's like most, most of my leading man buddies, they're good looking.

A (29:30)

They call you the ugly.

B (29:32)

I'm the, I'm the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the buddies. Why do I hang out with guys who are better looking than me? Jesus. Oh, fix that right away.

A (29:43)

That's why we're hanging out, buddy. Although I do believe I would be doing better if I hadn't listened to Nathan Fillion's advice, which I know I've already mentioned on this podcast before, but I broke my nose in New York while we were doing Firefly, ran into a glass door, came back and said, I want to fix my nose. It's broken. I got a big lump in it now. And you said, alan, I think you're asking me for permission to get a nose job. And I say no. Okay, so everybody out there, when you see me on camera and I got a little lump in my nose, that's Nathan's fault. And glass door on 57th Street. Sushi place still there. They're really good at cleaning that glass door.

B (30:26)

Cleanest glass in New York City. Yeah. All right, worst audition.

A (30:32)

I can't think of my worst auditions. I've had a lot of really bad auditions.

B (30:37)

Give me one that you, that you have like, that kind of fills you with regret.

A (30:41)

I've been very scared and I was trying to think about how you're talking about. Be the bold version of yourself. The Nathan film. Like when I was first starting out, I had some auditions that I started out. I did, I did a play and I did really well in this play and I got a big name manager, Bernie Brillstein. And he was like this kid because he saw me on stage do a lot of, a lot of stuff.

B (31:01)

He's famous.

A (31:02)

Yeah, I did 20 something roles and I was just. Could steal every scene I was in because that's something I did, I could do. I learned that back in Texas, in Dallas at, in an improv troupe and something I kind of always did, just different characters. So he's like, here, sign you up, kid. Why don't you go out and, and audition for this movie? And then it would be for the guy flying the helicopter. And I didn't know how to do It. When it wasn't a guy that had some very tangible flaw like you're talking about, or an accent or a limp or a affectation. Yeah. Some kind of extreme thing that I could use as a mask to be a character. And I just failed again and again. I'd come in there shaken, and I remember trying to psych myself up. I'd meditate and stuff, a bunch of stuff I learned at Juilliard. And I would just come in and bomb, bomb, bomb. Oh, here's one that I did. This was. I decided because I was too. I was very self conscious about my red hair and my. My coloring. And Bernie got me an audition for this sitcom and he's like, just do this kid. You need some money. He was kind of like, just do this small role in this sitcom with Dan Aykroyd. Like, there was like a sense that he had called somebody and said, give the kid a job. I. He's got no money and it's embarrassing. And in. I got called back in between my first audition and the callback. He was like. He'd be the character I played. He was like the guy at the. At a rectory was. He was a guy. Was a priest. And I was one of the guys, the priest who's sort of the shucks kid. And I decided if I'm gonna get this job, I gotta look good on camera. And I'm too pale to look good on camera, so let me get a tan. So I went to a tanning bed and got a great brilliant red sunburn. I mean, it was deep. It was a deep sunburn and it covered my entire body. And I was sick. I was basically sick in this audition and incapable of acting and selling any joke because I just basically feel just a raw nerve. That's something I did. I mean, there's so many. Man, it's amazing. I've worked. It's amazing. I've continued. I just. I've lucked out. Some people believe in me and some people see something and I don't know.

B (33:17)

What do you think failure. What do you think failure has taught.

A (33:20)

You to enjoy life? I think the best thing it's taught me is that I need to enjoy my life. You know, like, when I think of failure in business, like, I used to want all kinds of things. I saw other people have that type of access, that type of fame, that type of. And a. I wouldn't have been ready for it, and I would have spun out and I would have been one of those people that you'd read about in A tabloid doing something bad or getting hurting themselves accidentally or taking drugs or something. I've learned to enjoy my life like the most important thing in my life for a long time was my job. The most important thing in my life now is my family, my closest family and my friends. Although I'm getting better at that. But I can still be better with friends since I realize I'm talking to one who's. I'm rarely in touch.

B (34:16)

You know what though, Alan? I listen. You're great, but you're great in doses. I think we have. I think we have the perfect friendship. I see you just enough.

A (34:34)

There's enough time between your visits that I can clean up the messes you made. Replace the furniture you've ruined.

B (34:42)

The thing I need most from you is an opportunity to miss you.

A (34:52)

Thanks, buddy.

B (34:53)

I love you.

A (34:55)

I love you too, man.

B (35:01)

Okay, out there, out there in the world, good buddy. Out there in the world is a young actor, or maybe he's old and just trying to do the. Hit the reset button like a rookie. Nathan Fillion is the rookie.

A (35:15)

Watch the hit series every Tuesday at 10pm on ABC.

B (35:22)

That's a little plug. What do you say to this guy? He wants to get started. He's listening to you right now. He's listening to this. This thing about success and failure and how can he apply? What do you want to tell this guy or girl, this new actor about this journey they're about to embark on. Or maybe they're embarking on and not achieving anything.

A (35:42)

Make your own thing. Make your own thing with your friends. Things that make you happy, things that bring you joy. That's what you should do. Don't try to follow the trends of we need to make, you know, 10 second TikTok shows and I can write up one of those and make some. Do your own thing. Do what you know, let your flag fly and follow that inspiration. And if nobody follows it, maybe we'll get into it after you're gone. I don't know. But find joy in life. This is it, according to scientists. I don't know if I've told you this, Nathan. We don't have much time. I don't know if anybody.

B (36:20)

Wait, wait. What? Do you know something I don't know?

A (36:23)

We do not have much time left on this planet. And that's if nothing happens. I mean, we're all. It's a brief existence. So find the joy where you can. And the things that bring you joy, go toward those things. That's what I'm doing with writing. I'M going towards writing, and it may turn out to be a thing. I don't think it's going to make me good money, but it brings me joy. And I luckily can maybe make money other ways.

B (36:49)

So your advice to a young actor starting up is find your joy.

A (36:53)

Find your joy. Pursue those things that bring you joy and create things with your friends and. Yeah, fight for those. Fight for the things that bring you joy.

B (37:03)

Last question. Alan.

A (37:04)

Yes.

B (37:05)

A role you didn't get that maybe you thought would change, would have changed everything for you.

A (37:10)

But now if I tell you this role, like, I heard an actor I like very much, Sam Rockwell, he was offered the role of in Incredibles to play the bad guy. And I read an Interview magazine that he said, I was offered that role. I said, I don't want to do an animated thing, but, boy, I wish I had. I feel bad for him. He should have done it. He kind of feels bad about it. He should have done it. Maybe Jason, whoever played it, Jason. What's Jason's last name? Jesus Christ. The actor Allan is thinking of is Jason Lee. It was Jason Lee.

B (37:47)

Yes, Jason Lee.

A (37:48)

So as I was saying, he felt bad about it. I feel bad for him because I'm. I'm a fan of his. I wish he had played it. Jason Lee. Maybe if he heard that, he probably feels good about it because he's glad he said no. He got to be that character. But if I tell you the role that I almost got, that I thought I was going to get, I don't know. I don't want to. I don't want people to know there was a role, though. There was one. Every actor has one. I should have gotten it. I'll be damned. It would have changed my career.

B (38:16)

So you tried to get it. You didn't get it. Someone else got it. And you think that would have put things on a different track?

A (38:21)

Absolutely. But it wasn't meant to be more important than what I did and didn't get. Is just what it is, man. It's what it's. I feel like that is a thing that all actors and artists have to have to find early as possible. It's meant to be or not meant to be. It's. It's just not meant to be, like, because it seems like it should be.

B (38:46)

I auditioned for no country for Old Men.

A (38:50)

See, now I feel bad for you. No. Okay, Josh. I knew this.

B (38:54)

For the Josh Brolin role.

A (38:55)

Yes. Yes.

B (38:56)

Now, if I had, I would have loved to have been. I nailed that audition. I would have loved To a bit get ink on that role. Josh Brolin was amazing.

A (39:04)

Yes, he was.

B (39:05)

Now, that's not to say that had I gotten that role, I would have had Josh Brolin's career. That is not the case.

A (39:11)

No.

B (39:11)

It might have changed things for me.

A (39:13)

Yes.

B (39:14)

But to be honest, I really like the path I'm on. I really can't complain. My life is perfect right now.

A (39:21)

Me too. Me too. And do you know. And like, this is for actors. When you think. And this is what I think about my role, that I was like, I got everything going for me on this role. I know how to play it. I can nail it. Usually that's a given. You can do it. Like, there's other things going on that are happening. I saw a thing with Josh Brolin, you know who filmed his audition for that?

B (39:44)

His mom.

A (39:45)

Quentin Tarantino.

B (39:48)

Really? Yes, really.

A (39:50)

Where? When they watched his tape, they went, who filmed this? He's good. But, God, who filmed this? This is amazing. Is because he was working with Tarantino on something and he said, would you help me with this audition? So you never know. Like the. It's not an even playing field necessarily. Just.

B (40:10)

Maybe I should have called Quentin Tarantino.

A (40:12)

Exactly. You need.

B (40:13)

I went into the. I went to the room. I was in the room with the guys. Oh, I didn't go on tape. I was right there. Paramount lot.

A (40:20)

Oh, that's cool, though. They're nice guys.

B (40:22)

It was really nice. It was a really great experience. I'll never forget it. And they were really kind to me.

A (40:27)

Mine was a Coen Brothers movie, too. I'll tell you about it someday.

B (40:30)

Oh, my gosh. Those guys are great.

A (40:33)

I can tell you a bad audition I did for them.

B (40:36)

Go, go.

A (40:38)

This isn't the one I thought I should get. It was for a very serious man. Is that what it was called? A serious man? They won Oscars. And the person who played it. Let me just get there because I need to get the right name here. A Serious Man. And Michael Stuhlbarg won an Oscar for his role in this. So obviously the right person got the role.

B (41:02)

Yes.

A (41:03)

He's a great actor. I actually worked with him. He's fantastic. He's just so fantastic. Michael Zubark played it, but it was. He's a Jewish character. I am not Jewish. No, I'm Catholic. I have. There's a Catholic guilt that sort of resembles a Jewish guilt. And there's something that. I don't know. I was in New York. I've played Jewish guys. The people kept giving me Jewish roles. For time. Anyway, they called me in for the Jewish role, and I remember I was sitting in front of Joel, and I'm going, seidelman. You slept with Seidelman? I had put, like, a lilt on.

B (41:40)

It.

A (41:42)

A Jewish lilt I had learned when I had done a play, Brighton Beach Memoirs, at that crappy college in Texas. You sleeping with Seidelman? And he just. It was like he looked down and was laughing and like, oh, this is hard to watch, kind of face on. Sweet Jesus. Yeah, I told you, I've blown a lot. But whatever. It's meant to be. This. That's just part of what.

B (42:14)

I don't know.

A (42:14)

It's who I am.

B (42:20)

I have to say, Alan, whatever path, I mean, so many choices you've made and opportunities, relationships nurtured, opportunities, you know, garnered or failed, whatever this incredible path that you've taken has led you to right here where you are right now.

A (42:40)

Exactly.

B (42:40)

And I. I can't shake a stick at that. You're fantastic, and you're one of my best friends, man. I think you're just a fantastic human. So whatever. Whatever the experiences are that have shaped you, I'll never shake a stick at him.

A (42:53)

Thank you. I'll tell you some that I wish you would have been there to shake a stick at, but it may be, like, use it as a weapon against them, but, you know, thank you, brother. And I. And I, likewise. Obviously. I wonder. We. Yeah, we're very close. Sometimes I say things, and I'll even watch residential, and I'll be like. I feel like that's Nathan's delivery of that line.

B (43:13)

Oh, listen, I have stolen more from you than I care to admit.

A (43:17)

God bless it.

B (43:18)

But that's. But that's.

A (43:19)

That's. Privileges of friendship. Come on. That's life.

B (43:22)

That's right. It's exactly right. That's exactly right. Alan, fantastic job. This has been another lovely chat with you. I love when we have guests on the podcast, but I also just love being able to.

A (43:33)

We have a guest.

B (43:34)

What, did we forget to introduce them?

A (43:36)

It's Quentin Tarantino. He's in the waiting room.

B (43:39)

We've run out of time. Oh, yeah. Maybe next time, time permitting. Quentin Tarantino.

A (43:45)

Okay, thank you, everybody.

C (43:52)

Hello, and thank you for listening. This is Nathan Fillion. Now is the part where I read aloud the crowd credits for our show in my best telephone voice. So put on some headphones, lay back, and relax, because this is our time.

B (44:07)

If you haven't yet, you can always.

C (44:09)

Head over to our Patreon to get bonus content. Longer episodes and a chance to get your hands on some incredible crap. If you love the show, please leave us a review and feel free to tell all your friends. If you didn't love the show, now is the time for quiet contemplation. Once We Were Spacemen is a collision 33 production. Some of the names I will mention are my favorite people in the world, and some of them have room for improvement. You know who you are. If you hear your name being read, please stand up. This show is produced by Siobhan Homan and Josh Leppy of Collision 33. We are edited, mixed, and produced by Resonate Recordings, with special thanks to Courtney Blomquist and Adam Townsell. Our theme music is done by Carlos Sosa and Joshua Moore. Artwork by the incredible and incomparable Louis Jensen. But I'm going to tell you right now, I think he fakes his accent. Until next time.

A (45:07)

Hao Chimama.