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One Broke Actress
you booked the job but it didn’t change your life: Brian Unger on the real working actor experience *it hits different episode*
01:04:25
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- [00:07]
Sam Valentine
What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of the One Broke Actress podcast. An honest account of actor life, plus a few lessons I learned in the process. I am your host, Sam Valentine and this is a specialty. It hits different episode and if you already know what that is, go ahead and skip forward 60 seconds and skip this intro. If not, this is the throwback episode, meaning it was previously recorded. So not all the content that is in it might be relevant to this exact moment. But let me tell you something I have noticed about all of these interviews and these conversations. Depending on the time of where you are at in your life and your career, man, it hits different. Also, please keep in mind I've grown and changed as a person and as a host. So I might not agree currently with all of the things I said in this episode. Please be forgiving of my growth as a person and be understanding of its still really vulnerable to put yourself out there, especially a former version of yourself. Our guests themselves also might have changed a lot in the process, so let's be equally loving to them. And my audio setup has gotten a hell of a lot better since I started this. So please take the content, please enjoy it to the best of your abilities and forgive anything that doesn't resonate in your ears as well as it could. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy this. It hits different episode. What's up guys? It's Sam Valentine here. One broke actress here with you today with another podcast. How is it going? Listen, we gotta talk. We gotta talk about Harvey Weinstein. I don't want to, but I'm going to. I don't really know where to start here because I think mainstream media has covered it pretty well. But I back everyone who is standing up. Obviously I am nowhere near the realm of being in contact with him, but that's a problem. That's not just in the top, top echelon of Hollywood. That's a problem that's everywhere. The treatment of women and men, harassment, sexual harassment, overexerting power is a very prominent issue. And when you deal in a business that oftentimes has people do things like simulated sexual situations and being hot for a living, it brings out the worst in some people. So if you haven't had a chance to, please get onto onebrokeactress.com and read the article I wrote as an open letter to Harvey Weinstein. Share it, give it to your friends and state your opinions because now is the time to start calling this shit out and start making some major, major changes. I Would also like to just put this on the podcast. It's in the bottom of the article as well. But anytime, anytime you do not feel safe on a set or otherwise in a hotel room, in a restaurant, in a meeting. The number is 844-SAFERSET S A F E R S E T I don't think they typically get calls from non union actors, but I don't think that anyone would turn you down for help if you were in a situation with need. I also highly recommend that you go into these type of meetings with someone that you think is sketchy or could possibly be sketchy or just in general have someone with you, have a friend, have a rep that kind of cuts to down the availability of you to other people. And you know what, you can also always email me. You can also always email me samvalentine.net and I will help you. I don't have a lot of power, but I have a lot of opinions and I have a platform to put them on. So let's use it together. Okay, now that that's out of the way, today we have Brian Unger. You have seen him in a ton of stuff and if you have caught the new show, me, myself and I, you will see him as the awesome pilot dad, Ron. And in other scenes you will see him as a. The wardrobing department does a really fun job of making him look like 50 years older. Super cool. His pilot just premiered. The show is doing great. You can catch it on cbs. He talks a little more about that and in this episode he, he really talks about how he got where he is. He came to LA with a dream, you guys. He had an agent at William Morris. He had a pilot to do when he first got here. Like all the things that we wish we had that could just slide us into that home base and then it all kind of fell apart and he really goes in deep with some bad audition stories. Why he doesn't take acting class. Along with some fun acting class stories too. He's kind of made audition rooms his his acting class which is very interesting. He has some great tips on the difference between auditioning for multi cam versus single cam. I think you're really going to like him. His voice is also just oh so soothing. So without further ado, please enjoy Brian Unger in the One Broke Actress podcast. So I'm here with Brian Unger.
- [05:35]
Brian Unger
Hello. Hello.
- [05:36]
Sam Valentine
Thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
- [05:38]
Brian Unger
You're welcome.
- [05:39]
Sam Valentine
So let's get into my first question, which is pretty standard. How did you get to la.
- [05:46]
Brian Unger
Like everyone else, I fell off a turnip wagon. I became. I was a homecoming king because the town is filled with homecoming queens. Homecoming kings, prom kings, or queens.
- [05:57]
Sam Valentine
You're talking to a prom queen.
- [05:58]
Brian Unger
Yep. They come to LA hoping to keep that coronation going, and then they come here and they find that the town is filled with royalty from their high schools. I. I had kind of run my course with the Daily Show. I didn't get the host job. It was down between two candidates. There was a guy named John Stewart and there was a guy named Brian Unger. I was the internal candidate who didn't get the job. When I didn't get the job, I was wounded and being young and overly ambitious, thought I deserved more and I probably quit in haste. But Doug Herzog, then president of Comedy Central, also decided to leave the network. And he became the president of Fox and gave me a deal. And so I got a pilot and I moved to Los Angeles with a pilot deal in hand. And I thought my future was certain, my trajectory, without question. I was just gonna be fine.
- [07:09]
Sam Valentine
I mean, that's the dream.
- [07:11]
Brian Unger
That's right. And then eight months later, the pilot went down the crapper.
- [07:15]
Sam Valentine
And you can cuss on this podcast. It's okay.
- [07:19]
Brian Unger
Shitter. And then I. Yeah, I was unemployed like everybody else.
- [07:24]
Sam Valentine
God, that's crazy, because everyone thinks if they get that one thing, it's gonna be the game changer. And you came to town with the one thing.
- [07:35]
Brian Unger
Yes. You know, Pearl of wisdom, number one.
- [07:41]
Sam Valentine
Okay, great.
- [07:43]
Brian Unger
These are, you know, these are moments of success. And the emphasis is moment. And your objective is to string these moments together. And we as performers and actors and writers and producers, and we think that there's going to be this one thing that just basically does it for us. And we approach our auditions that way. We can't help but see into the future what might be, what could be, mainly out of just a sense of survival. And that is very rational. But I think over time I began to dissuade myself of that notion to just. To go in to whatever pilot or whatever that is, make these moments last, try to do the best work you can, and pretty much assume you're going to be out of work. It's, you know, it's not a pessimistic view. It's just a kind of, you know, it's just a real view of it looking back in my rear view mirror, you know. Does that make sense?
- [08:48]
Sam Valentine
Yeah. No, it's super realistic. All right. We're getting right into it. Well, that was Great.
- [08:52]
Brian Unger
I don't fuck around.
- [08:54]
Sam Valentine
One question. We're here, so let's talk about that. So you were unemployed. You had just come off of a show and a pilot. So you have representation at this point.
- [09:06]
Brian Unger
Yeah, really good agent at William Morris. I have all the elements that you're supposed to have.
- [09:13]
Sam Valentine
You're literally like a case book written actor.
- [09:16]
Brian Unger
Yeah. And I'm ahead of the game. Like, I'm already known. I'm. This thing's gonna be piece of cake. Even after the pilot is over, I should be able to get something else. Right. So began the odyssey of just auditioning like everybody else. And what I discovered was I was really unprepared. And I hadn't prepared my mind for the pressure and the nervousness of auditioning and the game. I wasn't aware of how to seize a moment when it was time to really do it. When you were in the room with certain people, what do you do? How do you act? How do you. I just didn't know because I hadn't really come up through the scripted world. I'd come up through comedy at the Daily Show. I was a news producer. I'd been a reporter. But I came from that more satire and parody and topical comedy. And so I was pretty green out here.
- [10:17]
Sam Valentine
Yeah.
- [10:18]
Brian Unger
So I'd kind of achieved success early, but not really ready for what it meant.
- [10:24]
Sam Valentine
That's so interesting. So did you start taking classes? Did you. How did you, you know, reset your.
- [10:32]
Brian Unger
I did try the classes. My agent at William Morris was like, you should go to class. So I went to class and I sat next to a bunch of actors and I decided that this was not for me immediately.
- [10:46]
Sam Valentine
I bet they were like, what's he doing here?
- [10:48]
Brian Unger
There was a guy, I remember specifically a guy in the acting class who turned to me and said, you're Brian Unger, aren't you? And I said, yeah. He goes, yeah, I love you. You're so funny. And I'm a huge fan. In fact, I met a friend of yours and I said, really? Who? And he told me the guy's name. And I'm like, oh, fuck, I know that guy from New York. He's like a really good friend of mine. Where'd you meet him? He said, at the Chateau Marmont. And I was like, oh, cool, that place is awesome. He's like, yeah, no, we were. We were having sex and you came on television and he said, oh, my God, there's my friend Brian. And I go, oh, that's wild. He goes, yeah, no, I'm I'm. I. I'm an escort, and it's what I do when I'm not acting or trying to act. So your friend was. He totally saw you on a promo for something that you were doing. And I. So anyway, do you want to go outside and have a cigarette with me? And I was like, I mean, you know. No, no, no, no. That's cool. Let's just. I'm gonna stay right here and just review this material. And I left at the, like, intermission of the acting class. And I was so fucking horrified by that moment because it kind of was, like, played into every fear I had about acting class, who.
- [12:03]
Sam Valentine
These people are such a dark stereotype.
- [12:06]
Brian Unger
And then I had to come to terms with the fact that my friend had been banging a hooker at the Chateau Marmont.
- [12:13]
Sam Valentine
Oh, my God. Wow. Welcome to acting class. No one's ever told me something like that. You know, you gotta own it. For his honesty, like, that was Sam.
- [12:22]
Brian Unger
I'm here to break new ground. Okay with you? You and I.
- [12:26]
Sam Valentine
A really honest acting class, though, that must have been, like, horrible. Well, that's okay. So class didn't work out for you?
- [12:34]
Brian Unger
I'm easily discouraged. It's one of my faults. And part of it has to do with the Midwestern upbringing of just being, like, vulnerable and feeling like, Ohio, Southern Ohio. And so I thought, shit, I can't go back there. I can't even go to class. Forget it. And so I essentially just. I doubled down on auditioning, and I tried to learn what the tricks were in my head that were making me succeed or fail. And I tried to isolate certain things, patterns, reproduce them, stop other habits. I mean, it became a numbers game for me. Just about, if I prepare this way, do I have more success if I don't prepare or if I'm more, you know, do I chat more? Do I do. I mean, I kept kind of, like, savants, like, inventory in my head of just behaviors and. And a lot of it, frankly, had nothing to do with the material. It was about just, like, you know, being at ease and how can I go in there, create the character, bring the character or whatever it is. I'd create it, bring it in there and play it without nervousness and out without expectation. And another thing that was really helpful to me was at the same time, I was also producing. I was producing for MTV and VH1 and E. And I got a pilot. You know, I had pilots. I was producing for other production companies because I was still very much and am a producer. And so I would Sit on the other side of the fence and listen to actors come in and read for me. And I would study them and what they did, what made me warm to actors versus what made me reject others. And I noticed patterns there too. And it just, you know, I think it's all been a process of kind of like sort of cataloging an inventory of all this stuff and learning how to suppress the bad habits and play up the good one, you know, good moments you have.
- [14:43]
Sam Valentine
So you're a scientist.
- [14:45]
Brian Unger
I am probably overly analytical about the process. Everybody's process is different, for sure. But mine was. Mine is a little too analytical, probably for most.
- [14:55]
Sam Valentine
So being on the other side of things, then for you personally, then what. What warmed you to actors in the room? Because the audition room is really kind of set up to fail. Like, you come into this blank, empty, sometimes like really gross space. You're sitting there staring at someone. Half the time you're reading with someone of the opposite sex of the character you would be reading with half the time. They're not that great anyway. It's, you know, and they might be eating lunch, you know, who knows? But what worked for you as someone.
- [15:23]
Brian Unger
Watching auditions because it's so intimate in that space, then naturally, if someone comes in nervous, they make you nervous. So nervousness is the first kind of killer. And I've seen that on both sides of the sort of auditioning fence. I've seen actors come in who are super chatty and not connecting and not listening. And, you know, it. It just reinforces a negative.
- [15:57]
Sam Valentine
So they were super chatty. You mean to you, like me as a producer before the scene?
- [16:02]
Brian Unger
Yeah, just kind of, that kind of really Runaway Train sort of, oh, you know, oh, hi, hi, how are you? And hi. And just this kind of a very dialed up energy.
- [16:11]
Sam Valentine
It's almost its own kind of nervous energy.
- [16:13]
Brian Unger
And we've all done that. I've done it.
- [16:15]
Sam Valentine
Oh, yeah.
- [16:16]
Brian Unger
The other thing too was kind of like a sense of maybe being too laid back and too cool, kind of too hip kind of cool. Like they didn't really care. Because that's another popular approach is go in like you don't care. And that also can be seen as being. That's a negative. I just found that people who came in who were warm, who were connecting to you and looking at you and listening to you and not prattling on, but just basically making some conversation, often it's a mutual acquaintance or complimenting the writer about the material and saying, I really enjoyed this. And in kind of a way that doesn't feel afraid.
- [17:08]
Sam Valentine
And shows that they read the script.
- [17:10]
Brian Unger
Yeah. And if you genuinely like it, say it to the writer. When I went into me myself and I. And I. And I. Dan Koppelman was sitting there. I mean, it was. The first thing I said to him was like, I go, whatever happens here today, I just. The script is really strong, and it's my favorite script I read this season, so thanks for having me in. And he was like, no problem. And I go, no, it's really good. Like, this is good. Things suck. This is good. I mean, I'm not. And I'm not just saying that in a way that I'm trying to kiss your balls. I mean, it's, like, really good. And he's like, okay, cool. Well, let's give it a try and see what happens. I just like doing that. I always did that. I always complimented the writer if they're in the room. But, yeah, I think those two things really sort of were negatives, and then the positives were. I can think of, like, a few actors who came in and read for me who just had, like, a authentic ability to connect in a way that felt conversational. And it was real and it was. And it was genuine.
- [18:12]
Sam Valentine
So you almost can't even teach that.
- [18:14]
Brian Unger
You know, I don't think. I don't think you can either, you know, which sucks.
- [18:18]
Sam Valentine
Sorry, guys. Super helpful. Let me tell you about something I can't explain to you.
- [18:22]
Brian Unger
I think we call it being yourself.
- [18:24]
Sam Valentine
Oh, that.
- [18:25]
Brian Unger
In a way, if all else fails, just be yourself.
- [18:29]
Sam Valentine
Do you feel like that translates well into auditions of, like, a severity of one level or another? Like people who are, like, an asshole or people who are, like, kind of a doormat? Do you feel like being yourself translates, like, the heightened points of yourself in that, or what do you feel like is the connection?
- [18:48]
Brian Unger
I think it attributes a calmness to the audition, and really, it's the most unnatural of places to be. It is the worst place to actually show anyone that you have talent or that you're right for a part. I think being calm is pretty much 95% of the challenge. The 5% is that you came in, committed, and created a character in your head. You did the audition, you adjusted when they told you to, then you walk out and you just go on to the next one.
- [19:24]
Sam Valentine
Yeah. And I think that the stuff in between is so important to inform. That is what I've really learned in the past year. The things in between the audition are so much more important than what in the room, because I think it all translates back to the room. Like living your life kind of puts you in the place where you don't necessarily need that job, but you've done the work and you've. It just attributes a calmness.
- [19:49]
Brian Unger
Yeah. I mean, the trick is to not get ahead of yourself, which is like impossible to not do. And you know, when you are living in this town and you are working your other job and you want to be liberated from it and you want, you know, you want security and you want a future and you want all the things that, you know, we think we deserve. It's very difficult to walk into an audition and not think about the what if. And if there is anything that you can do to mentally take a chainsaw to that connection, do it. Cut yourself off from it. Just do it. Because it's the most debilitating thing I think that I hear from my friends. It was the most debilitating thing for me. There's so much ego you're bringing in to the moment that you've just got to figure out a way to just fucking let it go and do the best you can in front of the people that are there staring at you and their weird insect. Because, you know, here's the thing. They are as nervous as you are. They really are. They're not. They don't possess superpowers of scrutiny and. Or any kind of insight. They can't see into your soul. They're just like we are. It's like a first date. And first dates are awkward. You sit down at the table with someone, you look at them and you're nervous and you have nervous patter. And you know instantly when you're on a date, whether you kind of like someone and the audition is similar, they size you up immediately. They look at your physicality, they listen to your voice. It puts you in or out of the ballpark. If you're out of the ballpark, there's nothing that you can do to change their mind, no matter how much or how well you read the part. So, you know, listen, the things you can control are the nervousness and creating in your head how you hear the part.
- [21:59]
Sam Valentine
Yeah, yeah, it's very interesting. So in terms of. There's so many different types of TV auditions now. And I think there's different nerves that go along with each of them. So for example, like the co star, like starting out at the bottom level, those sometimes I for me personally are almost more of a challenge because you come in and you read maybe three sentences. So do you have you have you had A lot of co star auditions. Have you?
- [22:27]
Brian Unger
I have and I've kind of broken it down this way. Like first, are you reading for a multi cam or are you reading for single camera? Because those are two different approaches rhythmically to how you read. If it's a single camera, you have more time to air out these moments and the camera is typically closer to your face so you can really connect with the person who is reading the lines with you. Even though they're looking down at the page, pretend they're looking at you and really stare them down. Because the scrutiny is, I think, closer. In those moments, on behalf of the casting director, producers and directors, the way they look at you, you're looking to see that you have something in your eyes. Facial expressions more nuanced. The multicam stuff that I've read for is about pacing. These things are written so tightly, as if they're a song and they have to be played a certain way. And if you miss a beat, that's when they know on set they're going to have a problem with you as an actor and they're going to have to stop and work with you. And that's sort of like the death. So identifying, I think that's important to identify whether you're going in for single camera versus. Versus a studio based, you know, multi camera thing. Because when you do guest stars on those, they really just want you to see that you can play in the orchestra and play along. And the moment you get out of rhythm and you miss your pacing, you get called out and you become a problem. So they're really scrutinizing you for just sort of like mechanics. Can this person read the rhythm of the, of the material? So I think I broke things down that way.
- [24:17]
Sam Valentine
Do you think that translates for guest star and co star then?
- [24:20]
Brian Unger
Yeah, I think so. I do. Depending on, you know, what the format of the comedy or the drama is. You know, I've done mostly comedy. The dramas I've read for, I haven't been very successful at. I don't know why, I just haven't. I just, you know, I must have read for Suits with Bonnie Zane a hundred times. I love Bonnie to death. Probably read me first time I was ever out here, but I've never booked it and I've been in there, you know, so many times. I don't know, maybe I just suck at that.
- [24:52]
Sam Valentine
You haven't figured out your.
- [24:53]
Brian Unger
I haven't figured it out yet.
- [24:54]
Sam Valentine
Scientific method for that one yet. So then utilizing that information because so much of the beats and things like that you pull from watching, you know, the show previously before knowing the show run and that kind of a thing. Pilots are a beast. And you just, I think you just conquered a pilot season.
- [25:15]
Brian Unger
So I, I definitely, I definitely did something I hadn't done before.
- [25:20]
Sam Valentine
Yeah.
- [25:21]
Brian Unger
Which is going into pilot season, reading for a script that you loved, getting said pilot, then having lightning strike one more time where. Where the pilot gets picked up. So awesome. And you, you actually go to work.
- [25:40]
Sam Valentine
And that's me, myself and I. For anyone.
- [25:42]
Brian Unger
It is. And it's a CBS half hour with Bobby Moynihan and John Larroquette and a really wonderful little young actor named Jack Grazer.
- [25:51]
Sam Valentine
And it's a single cam comedy.
- [25:53]
Brian Unger
It is single cam. It's pretty crazy. I'm much better at it than I am the multi cam stuff because, you know, it's not as broad and you get to play it more nuanced and it is more conversational and they're, they're depending on where you go to work and do single camera. In this one, there is no room for improv. I mean, you pretty much have to nail every word of the script. But it's. It feels more natural when you're just. It's like you and I talking right now. There just happens to be a camera over your shoulder. And then we'll break it down and shoot it 15 times, you know, to get really. Yeah, about.
- [26:35]
Sam Valentine
They do that many shots. That's awesome.
- [26:36]
Brian Unger
I think so. When you're working with kids, it's tougher because they. They are. You're trying to get some pretty nuanced performances out of kids who are 14 years old. And they're amazing and they're really talented and good, but I just think that they juggle psychically a lot more than we do. They go to school while they're shooting and they have the different stress. The stress affects them differently. And the material is also, you know, how script hides all this subtext and you have to kind of explain. It's hard enough for adults. So. But where was I? I guess I was just saying that pilots. Yeah, pilots. I mean, I've tested for a bunch, haven't gotten them. I was pretty much ready to walk away from all of it and just kind of throw myself really into the unscripted space, which I'd been doing my whole career anyway. And just, you know, the moral of that story is just stay. Stay with it. Be persistent.
- [27:37]
Sam Valentine
Yeah. How was the testing process? I mean, if you've done several, you haven't gotten I know it's a whole talk about cutting the ties of your. Your connection.
- [27:45]
Brian Unger
I think in the testing process, it's, you know, it's. It's a. It's. It's super mercurial. And I. You don't know if you're a favorite going in, so you got to kind of put that out of your head.
- [27:58]
Sam Valentine
Yeah.
- [27:58]
Brian Unger
Because everyone at that point gets treated equally. So if you go in with four candidates, four guys or four women, whatever you're doing, you've all basically been. You. You're all worthy of the part. And it now comes down to there might be a preference. And the producers might have told the studio and the network who they prefer, but I think they're all just basically, you know, putting chips down on numbers. These are the four numbers that were five numbers that we. We bet on these five. Just pick one and they spend the roulette wheel. And you. You know, I think the testing process is, you know, it's like phase two of the nervousness. If you think the audition makes you nervous. And then when you come back and read again, the testing is just excruciating. I just. I don't. I never want to do it again. And anybody who says it's fun should have their fucking head examined.
- [29:04]
Sam Valentine
I've never heard anyone say it's fun. In fact, I've heard it's literally the worst part of this business.
- [29:09]
Brian Unger
I think it is, because, again, you're that much closer to getting a job.
- [29:13]
Sam Valentine
You'd think they'd have it, I don't know, a little more streamlined at this point. In some.
- [29:18]
Brian Unger
I think it is. I think it is very streamlined. It's just that everything is done backwards. Like, it's the only job in America where you basically. They lay everything out for you and put it and lay it out for you on a table. And you sign all these things, how many copies? And it's like. Because I don't even know, a million things, there are little stickers that say, sign here. And you just go through and you sign and you come an hour early and you sign and you look at all these numbers and you go, wow. That's amazing. This is. Wow. And then you're supposed to. You hand this packet back to these people. Then you just sit there in. In your own perspiration, basically, while the other actors are right in front of you and they're pacing, listening on their, you know, listening to music, or everybody's trying to get psyched as if it's some, like, game or is it not.
- [30:17]
Sam Valentine
Though some kind of game.
- [30:19]
Brian Unger
I don't know. I, I think you go in there and you want to just replicate the very thing you did in the audition that got you in that room at that moment. So go in there and do exactly what you. And once again do. Take beta blockers, go in drunk, fucking hit yourself in the head with, with a, with a hard object. But try to get your heart rate down. Try to find some Zen moment inside calmness, something in you, so that when you walk into that theater and there are 35 to 40 people sitting there staring at you, humorless, and try to find a way to just act as if it's just. I don't know, I'm trying to think what would be that moment similar. Trying to find a calm energy where you walk into a room and you sit down, maybe dinner with someone that you're. You're very good friends with or maybe your girlfriend or your boyfriend or your. Somebody. You just sit the way you sit down at a table and you're just naturally there and it's just like, hey, how's it going? Just a very calm energy that's fucking impossible to achieve.
- [31:41]
Sam Valentine
I'm like sweating thinking about it.
- [31:44]
Brian Unger
Trust me. I, I think the only reason that I, I don't know, I think maybe at this phase of my life, in that moment where I went in there, I just didn't expect anything and I just wanted to move, move on, push forward, get out of there and go. I just didn't. I'm not going to get this. This is just another, this will be my fifth network test. I'm not going to get this. It rarely ever happens. I have a 25% chance of getting this. The odds are. You know what they are. The other actors out there are really good. They're funny. I've seen some of them, I've worked.
- [32:24]
Sam Valentine
With some of them say you probably know them.
- [32:26]
Brian Unger
There's a whole, you know, then there's the other bullshit that happens. Like the head of casting walks down the hallway and one of the actors gets up and knows that person and hugs them.
- [32:38]
Sam Valentine
I hate when that happens.
- [32:39]
Brian Unger
And says something like, oh man, we're really excited to see. See you. I'm so. Thank you.
- [32:44]
Sam Valentine
Great.
- [32:44]
Brian Unger
So you're like it.
- [32:45]
Sam Valentine
Not going to get that myself out.
- [32:47]
Brian Unger
Yeah. Cuz I'm not. I'm a shy guy anyway, by nature. I don't go to the parties. I don't know the right people. I know all the wrong people. I like talking to the janitor. I don't really like talking to the. The executive. I'm. I just, you know, I'm sort of merit based to a fault. It's like I want you to see my work and appreciate me for that. So the whole thing is like, you know, but again, psychically, if you can live your life, and I'm glad you said this, Sam, because it is important if you can live your life outside of these auditions, practicing these things about calmness and intimacy with people you don't know or who are controlling your destiny in a microcosm, a moment when you go to the grocery store and you see a checkout person, practice connecting to the person who's like checking you out in a real way and see what happens. See what happens for you. If you can find a calmness when you go to the post office and the power is behind the glass or the bank or, you know, practice connecting to people you don't know. To me, I spent so many years out on the road interviewing people for history and Discovery and Travel Channel and myriad, Myriad reality networks where I was basically forced to connect to strangers, where hundreds in a single day would run themselves almost through a gauntlet, where I would interview them about the shapes of states or the. Or whatever it is. I would have to find a moment to connect people. And if I found subject matter worth mining, dive deeper into that and ask questions that felt authentic where it doesn't feel fake, obviously, and, but felt, you know, real.
- [34:41]
Sam Valentine
Yeah.
- [34:42]
Brian Unger
And that, I think that also helped prepare me for auditions to find a calmness in it because it's also kind of a ludicrous exercise. Testing is like, I mean, how the hell can you. You're set up for failure. I mean, you're just, you're just, you know, and you're reading with a reader. I mean, it's not like you're in the scene with someone unless it's a chemistry test. And those are even more excruciating.
- [35:08]
Sam Valentine
Right.
- [35:09]
Brian Unger
So I don't know. I guess I'm repeating the same thing over and over again, which is just if they. If in acting classes and, or auditioning classes or whatever it is, if you can practice calmness being. Being super present. And I found that in other things outside of acting in like yoga and being a CrossFit and paying attention so you don't get hurt and, you know, just, just things you do in life when you're not acting like just. Just being present, you know, that's great.
- [35:47]
Sam Valentine
Because that's something everyone can do for free. That's true because that's Something you do in your everyday life. And I think everyone spends. And I've. I'm just as guilty as this. I've spent a lot of time and energy and money in classes and workshops and this and that. And this past year, I was like, I think I'm, to a certain extent with a lot of it. I'm kind of done for now with the paying people who aren't doing this to show me how to do it.
- [36:16]
Brian Unger
Well, when they do it, do they. Do they ask? Do they talk to you about finding a place of calm and serenity in your mind when you're in those auditions where it feels important?
- [36:28]
Sam Valentine
My acting coach does, and she's an actress herself, so that's why I really value that aspect of it. But I've had classes with people who haven't acted or been, you know, in, actively in the industry in years, and I struggle to take their advice seriously. Because if you haven't been in a room in six months to a year, at minimum, I feel like you kind of forget what it feels like. When I haven't auditioned in a couple months or in a month or sometimes, you know, three weeks, if I walk in a room, I'm like, oh, like, I didn't even care about this McDonald's commercial. And all of a sudden my heart's.
- [37:04]
Brian Unger
Like, yeah, I care about this. I really care about this moment. I don't want to fuck this moment up. I want this moment to be good.
- [37:10]
Sam Valentine
Half the time it's not even that I want. Want the job. It's that I want to do a good job at my job. Because there's so little validation, I think, in this acting world because you really only really technically, like, validated in your career when you get the part. And that is such a small percentage of the work.
- [37:31]
Brian Unger
Sure is.
- [37:33]
Sam Valentine
So I think, I don't know, you have to find the validation elsewhere to make it okay.
- [37:38]
Brian Unger
Yeah, that's true. And let's not forget, you know, the prelude to an audition usually involves a frantic drive across Los Angeles into a parking garage structure where you're in the wrong spot. You have to repark if you can find parking. And then you have to basically run across a scorching hot lot and you're. I mean, none of it is. Is configured to optimize the actor and. Or a performance or an audition.
- [38:10]
Sam Valentine
Fluorescent lighting is just the worst.
- [38:13]
Brian Unger
And then the mood of the person in the room, they just kind of. They want to get you in and get you out. But.
- [38:21]
Sam Valentine
How do you deal with what's Your waiting room, like for you? Because I think this can make and break people sometimes sitting in a waiting room with a line of people who kind of look like them and who are doing the same work as you. What do you do in a waiting room?
- [38:36]
Brian Unger
Well, I. I'm not a big meter and greeter waiting room guy. And most of the time I don't really know a lot of people. I know maybe a few here and there, but I try to keep those moments brief and let people kind of do their thing respectfully. And then like. But I'm not a real, like sit there and work the material in the waiting room and grind away at the script before I go in. I think I'm working on trying not to be nervous, imagining what's on the other side of the door when they call my name or bring out. Cause that's the first thing is you're called back or you're called into a room. You don't know who's back there. So there's the initial shock of, oh, I'm being pre read. It's a camera, a reader, and the casting person. And then there's also the times when you open the door and there are like fucking eight people back there. And the director is there and the EP is there and the writer is there and the casting people are there. And suddenly there's a rush. It's like stepping outside and you don't know what the weather is going to be. So if it's hot, there's an initial, oh, fuck, it's hot, or there's a big wind or it's freezing. So then there's that moment you have to figure out how to deal with right away. And again, maintaining some serenity as you walk through the door, no matter who's behind the curtain is step one. He's like, oh, okay, so there are eight people here. Big deal. Hey, how's everybody doing? Great. There's no way I can shake all your hands, so I'm not even gonna try. I'm just gonna sit down. Let's just do this then. They always say, do you have any questions? There's kind of like that formality that I always hated. But I'm kind of getting ahead of myself again. But in terms of the room, I'm always trying to like cut myself off from imagining what's on the other side and keep that real when it happens. If there are a lot of people in a room, you should say it, wow, there's a lot of you back here. I always said that. And I don't know if it hurt or helped me or just, you know, I mean, acknowledging things honestly, authentically, trying to just be real and calm and act like a normal person. I've been in a room where someone comes in and tries to shake the hand of every person in the fucking room, and you're just like, dude. Or, you know, hey, everybody just. Just take it down to an 11. Like, just chill out.
- [41:25]
Sam Valentine
But I'm not a hand. I'm not a hand.
- [41:28]
Brian Unger
Most of them don't want to shake your hand because they don't. They don't want to get a cold. They're always like that. They. I'm sick. Don't, don't. Or I just don't want. Don't.
- [41:36]
Sam Valentine
I think it's also, like, a little nervous panic thing that people do. Like, they're like, it's a greeting. Hey. And it's like a. I. I did it once after an audition. I had a panic. I ended up booking it. So I don't know. I must have done great. You shook hands after you're done with the casting director. That's cool. An audition, and I felt really good about it, and I was like, thank you so much.
- [41:59]
Brian Unger
I think that's okay. I like that.
- [42:02]
Sam Valentine
Well, I left the room and I got into my car, and I just looked at my right hand. Like, you betrayed me. It turned out fine, but I felt like I was like, what a rookie you are.
- [42:14]
Brian Unger
There are some people in rooms, though, you know, because you've been in those rooms with them over and over and over again. And I think it's. That's funny to me. I've been in. I've been in a room with Chris Hardwick more times than I can count. And, you know, you just find it funny that these are the people that keep coming. You're that type of. You're that. And you start to see yourself through, you know, the lens of a different perspective. Like, oh, am I that type? Is that who they think I am? I'm that. Am I that nerd? Or am I this? Do. Am I. Do I look Jewish? Am I a lawyer type? Am I a doctor type? My.
- [42:55]
Sam Valentine
Has that changed for you? As. As you've been in the business, as you've gotten older, has that altered?
- [43:01]
Brian Unger
I think you. You know, I think guys go through stages of basically doctors, lawyers, athletic types, dads. They. We all wind up being dads at some point. Yeah, there's young dad, then there's just old dad.
- [43:17]
Sam Valentine
Yeah, that's just dad.
- [43:18]
Brian Unger
There's just dad. And. And what's funny about dad is, like, most actors spend all this time in the gym trying to get, like, keep in shape and all that. And real dads in the Midwest are kind of like, they have a gut, and they don't really take care of themselves that much. And they're. You know, their hair is pretty, you know, void of any styling product. And, you know, there's a hip factor. You can sometimes go into hip, and they look at you and wonder, can we bring that down to something that, like, my mom in Ohio, who watches CBS religiously, will she buy me as a dad? It's a little schleppier, you know, I think it is. That's why I think plaids work well with guys. Always wear plaid. Yeah, it's a free tip from Brian Unger. Always wear plaid.
- [44:10]
Sam Valentine
Always wear plaid. I wear. I wear some plaid sometimes.
- [44:12]
Brian Unger
Yeah, plaid's good, because that's what everyone wears in the red states.
- [44:17]
Sam Valentine
Plaid and jeans. Yep. A lot of people. And it's always interesting to me how much that dictates what gets put on. Basically, the Midwest, which is where I'm from, too, so all like, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Illinois.
- [44:31]
Brian Unger
Yeah. You are Midwestern.
- [44:32]
Sam Valentine
Yeah. And plain states, all the tornado alley. So that's. You know, they're kind of the people who watch tv. And I have a lot of my friends who would comment on shows like. Like something like the Middle. And they're like, that. That show's still on. I'm like, yes, it's a. That show has been on forever, and they've killed it.
- [44:47]
Brian Unger
Yeah.
- [44:47]
Sam Valentine
Like, not. I think I ended on season nine. Yeah, eight or nine seasons, and they did. Phenomenal. And my family loves that show, and they're that people. So I often call my parents. I'm like, what are you watching? What's on your dvr? And tell me what you're. So I'm like, okay, so this is the kind of thing. I'm gonna watch them because it's kind of gonna. Probably gonna be out next pilot season, I think.
- [45:10]
Brian Unger
You know, it's funny enough. That was another benefit of traveling around the country for so many years.
- [45:15]
Sam Valentine
Oh, I want to talk about that, too.
- [45:17]
Brian Unger
Was listening to how people talk and from. From, you know, every state. Every corner of every state in the Union and trying to figure out in a pilot audition and. Or any. Any. Any casting is how does that person sound to a viewer outside of New York or LA or Park City or wherever? You know, people on tv, they don't talk like we do most of the time when we are, you know, sitting around talking about acting or talking about parts and things, there's just. They don't. People don't speak that way.
- [45:58]
Sam Valentine
I wish I was that witty, you.
- [45:59]
Brian Unger
Know what I mean? But. But like, you know, you're from these parts of the country and you've probably done a lot to sort of lose some of the regional aspects of your speech work. Yeah, yeah. I can't stress this enough as a technical thing. I'm going to just say it. Other than wearing plaid, I think the most important class. And maybe this is because my mom was a speech teacher. Get speech training. Learn how to use your voice. Voice so that you can manipulate it for different parts and use it to bring accents or lack of accents to things and create characters that have regional influences and colors. Because that's what America is. America is filled with people who sound like they're from someplace. Language defines them. That's their identity. The borders identify them as specific people from a specific region. So people from Baltimore sound a certain way. People from the south obviously sound a certain. People from Texas have a very distinctive way of talking. People from Southern California have a very unique way of talking that no one else sounds like in America. People from Ohio speak a different way. And for me, I kind of listened to how my dad spoke and how my mom spoke and how they. Even though they were from these little remote small towns, they were real. They were actors themselves and they. And they were speech. My mom was a speech teacher and she had a master's in speech and theater. And she would. She still to this day says, listen to that actor. Just how. How terrible their voice is, you know, how they don't. How they don't use any kind of. I mean, we hear so much vocal fry now and we hear all this terrible, terrible habits. I'll meet actors and the first thing I think of is like, man, you're never going to get a part because of the way you sound unless you get training.
- [48:09]
Sam Valentine
What is that specific, do you think? It's a very California dialect you're speaking about.
- [48:14]
Brian Unger
It's just something that sounds very untrained.
- [48:19]
Sam Valentine
Okay.
- [48:20]
Brian Unger
It can be thin and reedy and awful and just whiny or nasally or. My problem, I have a stuffed up nose all the time. I have to figure out how to get past that. But I think that's really like of all the technical things, speech is like critical. Find a good speech dialogue person who can help you sound a certain way. And I started in public radio. That was another thing an adjunct to my career that I did. I worked for NPR for six years and I had to listen to myself all the time.
- [48:55]
Sam Valentine
Yeah.
- [48:56]
Brian Unger
You know, and I was like, God damn, do I sound that way? I sound terrible. But I learned through direction how to sound like an NPR commentator. Conversational, normal, not sing songy. We tend to radio. People tend to go up and down and talk and only just talk like a normal person.
- [49:19]
Sam Valentine
They always sound very educated.
- [49:21]
Brian Unger
They certainly do sound smart. How I got on there is anybody's guess.
- [49:27]
Sam Valentine
That's really cool. That's a great idea. I like that speech.
- [49:31]
Brian Unger
Very important.
- [49:32]
Sam Valentine
I think that's part of the reason I started listening to podcasts, because I like different people's voices and I like to listen how they talk. And I think podcasts are one of the first ways that you kind of get that raw now, because anyone can do a podcast. So so many people are. So you can kind of listen to. Especially if they're interviewing with their friends, if they're chit chatting. I had a podcast called Not According to Plan with my friend Scott. And we would just chat. It was just the two of us talking. And that did a great deal of good for me. Because you never realize where you insert space in sentences with unwanted words until you listen to yourself for 40 episodes.
- [50:14]
Brian Unger
And then you have edit your own voice and you say to yourself, why did I put a sentence together like that?
- [50:22]
Sam Valentine
Slow down. Wow, you're fine.
- [50:24]
Brian Unger
Am I speaking passively? That's another thing. Do I speak inverted? Do I say what I want to say backwards? There are a lot of different. Your mind, the way you speak and the way we try to put thoughts together, it's good to have something reflect that back to you. And if you can find a speech teacher or someone to give you speech lessons. I think any young actors, especially, who just get here out of college, who are fucking amazing looking. The town's filled with beautiful people, and the moment they open their mouths, they sound like David Beckham. And you go, fuck. You're never gonna get cast in a commercial where you have to speak or a role. You know what I mean? Like, listen to that guy talk, right?
- [51:17]
Sam Valentine
Yes.
- [51:17]
Brian Unger
I mean, isn't he kind of the poster child for someone who really needs to get a hold of his diaphragm, Use it.
- [51:26]
Sam Valentine
That was one of my biggest things, I think when I first came here, I went out for commercials and I kept getting ones that said, said, must be good with dialogue, must be good with dialogue. And I was like, I must be good with dialogue. And I thought, I think I'm good. And then I was in a room with. Sometimes in commercials they'll bring you in as a group, you know which is the worst. And you'll be in and you'll listen to the first three other girls go before you. And I hear them, I'm like, oh, I'm good with dialogue.
- [51:57]
Brian Unger
I think commercial auditions are really a good practice because you are, you are pretty much. It's true what they say. You're pretty much like, you get the pass or the rejection like immediately like to walk in the door. And so once you get into the room, you have nothing to lose. So just, just you know, do your thing and leave. But practice being calm in those instances, I think is gives you good practice. I think I told Caleb this, but I just referenced Caleb, but that's okay. You can.
- [52:31]
Sam Valentine
That's my boyfriend.
- [52:32]
Brian Unger
Everybody knows my most embarrassing. I told Caleb this at CrossFit because he was telling me about your podcast and Sam is doing this thing. You should go. And I said, oh, fuck. I can tell you about the most. The worst. I had just gotten into town. I was reading for Ally McBeal. Remember that show?
- [52:49]
Sam Valentine
Yeah.
- [52:49]
Brian Unger
And it was a major guest star. It was going to be a love interest. That was a of piece.
- [52:53]
Sam Valentine
Huge, huge show, big audition.
- [52:54]
Brian Unger
And I had made it all the way down the line. And I was perfect example of a nerves going absolutely haywire and being unprepared. I go into the room, I'm like, I just came in from New York. I'd been right. I'd been on the Daily show for three years. I was like, okay. And I had like scored on this audition for Ally McBeal. They wanted to see me again. And I'm like, okay, cool. So I drove all the way to like you know, the studio in Rosecrans, like way the Manhattan beach or something.
- [53:27]
Sam Valentine
Yes, yes, yes.
- [53:29]
Brian Unger
Just.
- [53:29]
Sam Valentine
It's that giant castle.
- [53:30]
Brian Unger
It's really weird. Yes. And inconvenient to say the least. But I got it. I mean I just was lost the moment I got out of my car. I walk into the place, I go into the room. The room is an office with really beautiful like pieces of furniture. And there are 15 people in there. And the director stands up.
- [53:53]
Sam Valentine
This is your callback.
- [53:56]
Brian Unger
Hi. I'm such and such. I'm the director. Oh, shit. This is like a really important audition. This suddenly this got really important. And I went into a major psychotic state of nervousness. Complete, utter gripping my fucking heart. I was like, this is like, this is a real Situation that I need to be better prepared for in terms of being competent to execute this audition. So he talked to me a little bit and everyone laughed and they talked about the Daily Show a little bit. And then they said, well, let's go through this. Let's try this. And I started reading. I looked down at my page, and one thing I got during the Daily Show, I developed an astigmatism. And I started, for the first time ever, wearing contact lenses. I didn't have them in, but I figured I could read the page anyway. I start reading with this person. I flip the page to go to the next one, and the pages are out of order.
- [55:03]
Sam Valentine
Oh, shit. How many pages was it?
- [55:05]
Brian Unger
About eight pages.
- [55:06]
Sam Valentine
Oh, shit.
- [55:07]
Brian Unger
And the pages were out of order. And I stopped and I said, shit this. I don't have these pages in the right order. Can you hang on a second? And I look down and I can't see the page numbers because I don't have my glasses on and I'm not wearing contact lenses. My hands start shaking violently with the paper really bad. And I'm sorry, frazzled by this, that I, the casting person reaches over, touches my leg and says, it's okay, let me have the script. I'll put the pages in order for you. And I said, thank you. And she took the thing and she put this pages in order and handed it back to me. I shit the bed for the next seven pages, Walked out of there almost like in a state of tears because I felt like I had failed so miserably at being prepared. And my agent, I still held out hope that I actually got the role.
- [56:11]
Sam Valentine
Right, because you never know.
- [56:12]
Brian Unger
You don't. My agent said they love you and think you're perfect for the part, but because you handled the situation the way you did, they're going a different direction. And I go, you're kidding me. They told my agent that I had a total meltdown over script pages out of order. I showed a kind of, like, meltdown. And I think that was almost worse than hearing that I was, like, terrible and couldn't read and. Or I'm just so wrong for the part. They said, he's the guy, we thought he was great. And I think that was like a major fucking wake up call about just, I don't know, being able to roll with stuff, being prepared, have your pages in order, have your glasses on, your contacts in. I mean, I'll never forget that. It was excruciatingly painful and the disappointment I felt about myself too. And I mean, I Had, like, I had a really big agent at William Morris. I'm not there anymore. But at that time, like, he kind of took me on as like a. Like, as a favor to someone because I'd really not done any scripted work coming off the Daily Show. We were just doing. We did comedy differently there. I mean, so I felt bad that I disappointed him. You know, it took a long time for me to get over that. I don't even. I think I'm still up over it.
- [57:46]
Sam Valentine
I think the thing that comes along after a really bad audition or a really bad callback is you think you're kind of done or done with that casting director. I think that at least that's where my head goes, is when I leave the room, they're gonna remember this forever. They're never gonna call me in. I'm never gonna. Never gonna work in this town again, or however they say it.
- [58:11]
Brian Unger
You know, that is true. And if I may address that, I will tell you this. A career is a very long thing by the very definition of the word. And it kind of goes back to what I talked about earlier with you now is that these moments are just moments. They come, they go. Put them behind you. Just. Just try to keep stringing these moments together that are successes, obviously. And the bad moments, file them away, you know, Try not to get them out and stare at them and look at them and dust them off and try to relive anything. Don't get nostalgic. Just keep trying to put together moments. And you will meet again. The casting people that you read for and had a fucking terrible audition with. You will see them again. I can tell you this with certainty because it's happened to me many times. I can tell you right now, Julie Pernworth, who's the head of one of the Senior VPs of Primetime at CBS, sits across the room from me every Tuesday when we table read. And she smiles back at me, and I smile at her. And I hope I'm doing what she wants me to do. I hope I'm the person she wanted in that role. I hope they're pleased. But I can draw a line to the very first audition I ever had. It was Julie, NBC. I had gone into her office. She was the head of casting. She said, go into the other room, read this. Come back and read it for me. I read this piece she gave me. It was like, I don't know, from some NBC sitcom. I walked back into her office, sat down, I read. Was so bad. It was so terrible. She just looked at me with the expression, it said, are you fucking kidding me? I wasted an hour of my day with you in this general that you're. And I only did this as a favor to your agent.
- [60:22]
Sam Valentine
Probably like nobody even does generals anymore.
- [60:25]
Brian Unger
Well, at this time. And I walked out of there and I knew that was bad. And I thought my charm and just the fact that I just come off the Daily show and the fact that I'm not atrocious to look at will probably get me something here. I never heard back from her and I never ever read for her and never sat in a room with her until now, where I'm sitting basically as a star in a primetime comedy at cbs. And I said to her, do you remember that? And she said, no, not at all. So those moments, as bad as they are, they don't remember them. You're just a face at that moment. We carry them with us as wounds, and we carry them our entire lives, but they mean nothing to those people. In those moments, they've moved on because they find someone to replace you and they replace the memory with some other memory of some other bad actor who shit the bed and fucked up. And so I can say that with absolute uncertainty. When you have these terrible, terrible auditions and moments, don't live with them. Just file them away and walk away and try to delete them because no one remembers them. They really don't.
- [61:44]
Sam Valentine
That's crazy. And also awesome.
- [61:48]
Brian Unger
I love that I know nothing, but I do share these sentiments with you.
- [61:53]
Sam Valentine
Take them for what they're worth and wear plaid. That was great. And we've come full circle, so I think I'm gonna wrap you up here. If people want to see you on TV or find more about you, where would they do that?
- [62:07]
Brian Unger
Well, we're on Monday nights for now on cbs. Me, myself and I. Premieres this month, the new fall season.
- [62:18]
Sam Valentine
What does it premiere? Because this is going to come out.
- [62:20]
Brian Unger
A little bit September 25th, so I didn't want to give you a specific date, but we're on this fall on CBS. We'll eventually move to our normal time period of 9 o' clock on Monday nights. And then if you want to find me, please don't. Because I'm shy and I hate meeting new people.
- [62:43]
Sam Valentine
That's all I needed. Well, thanks for coming out of your shell and out of your car, Sam.
- [62:49]
Brian Unger
This has been so much fun. And this is how I prefer these kinds of things. One on one and lots of dogs. Yes.
- [62:56]
Sam Valentine
Thank you so much. And, guys, I will talk to you in a bit. All right, guys, I hope you enjoyed that episode of the One Broke Actress podcast with Brian Unger. He was awesome. You guys should check him out and his new show because it's pretty freaking funny. Also, you should check me out One Broke Actress on Instagram. And you should absolutely subscribe and rate and review this podcast. It takes a lot of effort to get it all together every week, but I love and enjoy every moment. And to know that you guys are enjoying it too means the most. So rating, reviewing, subscribing is all the best. Sharing is like the shit. Like, if you guys could share this, I would absolutely love it. And tag me on Instagram Broke Actress when you share it, I would love to see that. It means the world to me. And that's kind of all I have for you. So I will see you@onebrokeactress.com and if not, I will see you next week.
- [63:58]
Brian Unger
Will I will put my heart on the line Give it all this time I will I will put my heart on the line Nothing stop me this time.