Ongoing History of New Music: "Good God - Part 2" Summary
Release Date: June 25, 2025
Host: Alan Cross
Podcast: Ongoing History of New Music
Introduction to Goth Subculture
In the second part of the episode titled "Good God - Part 2," host Alan Cross delves deeper into the enduring and multifaceted world of goth music and its associated subcultures. Building on the historical foundation laid in part one, Cross explores how goth evolved from its punk roots into a resilient and influential subculture that extends beyond music into various realms of pop culture.
Evolution and Persistence of Goth
Fragmentation of Rock Music: Alan begins by tracing the diversification of rock music into myriad subgenres such as punk, metal, grunge, and emo. This fragmentation led to the emergence of distinct subcultures, each with its own unique appeal and audience.
Sustained Growth of Goth: Unlike many other subcultures that rise and fade with musical trends, goth has demonstrated remarkable longevity. "Unlike a lot of rock-based subcultures, it did not wither and die. Instead, it spread and got stronger," Cross notes (03:15). This resilience is attributed to goth's ability to adapt and integrate into various cultural facets, including fashion, film, and literature.
Key Figures and Influences
Sisters of Mercy and The Cure: Cross highlights seminal bands such as the Sisters of Mercy and The Cure, whose dark music and introspective themes have become synonymous with goth culture. Despite debates over their classification, these bands have undeniably shaped the goth landscape. "The bigger they got, the more they became the de facto face of goth," Cross remarks (10:45).
David Bowie’s Impact: David Bowie’s portrayal of an elegant vampire in "The Hunger" (1983) is cited as a significant influence on goth aesthetics. The film’s integration of gothic music, exemplified by Bauhaus's "Bela Lugosi's Dead," underscores Bowie's role in popularizing goth imagery (12:30).
Second Generation Goth and Expansion
Emergence of New Bands: In the late 1980s, goth expanded with bands like Dead Can Dance and The Mission, each bringing unique sounds that enriched the subculture. Cross describes Dead Can Dance as "sounding like they were right out of the 16th century," emphasizing the genre's diverse musical influences (15:20).
Formalization of Goth Culture: The proliferation of goth-themed magazines, particularly Propaganda, played a crucial role in formalizing goth culture. These publications acted as goth bibles, disseminating fashion, music, and lifestyle information that helped sustain the subculture’s growth (18:05).
Intersection with Industrial Music
Blurring Lines Between Genres: Goth’s evolution intertwined with industrial music, creating a symbiotic relationship that allowed both genres to flourish. Bands like Ministry exemplify this blend, transitioning from a technopop sound to become a cornerstone of industrial music while retaining goth elements (22:10).
Marilyn Manson’s Dual Identity: Marilyn Manson is discussed as a pivotal figure straddling both goth and industrial realms. Cross explains, "A bit of both, really, and neither, actually," highlighting the complexity of genre classifications (28:50). Manson’s controversial image and influence are acknowledged, particularly in how media often misconstrues the goth subculture through isolated incidents like the Columbine tragedy (30:25).
Contemporary Goth and Its Niches
Modern Goth Bands: The episode showcases contemporary goth bands such as Interpol and The Dresden Dolls, illustrating how modern incarnations of goth maintain the essence of the original subculture while incorporating new influences. Cross describes Interpol's music as a continuation of the spirit of 1979 goth (35:10).
Goth’s Influence on Other Genres: Goth’s pervasive influence extends into metal genres, with subgenres like death metal and doom metal absorbing gothic elements. Bands like Deicide and Cannibal Corpse are mentioned as examples of metal bands incorporating goth aesthetics and themes (38:40).
Navigating the Goth Scene
Subgenres and Labels: Cross provides guidance for listeners interested in exploring goth music, recommending specialized labels such as Metropolis Records and Dancing Ferret Records. He also suggests exploring goth-themed magazines and fanzines like Drop Dead and Gothic Beauty for deeper immersion into the culture (42:15).
Misconceptions and Media Portrayal: Addressing common misconceptions, Cross emphasizes that the majority of goth enthusiasts are gentle and literate individuals, contrary to negative stereotypes perpetuated by media sensationalism. He urges listeners to look beyond the surface and understand the rich cultural tapestry of goth (45:30).
Conclusion: Goth’s Enduring Legacy
Alan Cross concludes by reaffirming goth’s status as one of the longest-surviving and least understood subcultures in rock music. He underscores its profound impact on various aspects of pop culture and encourages listeners to embrace and appreciate the depth and diversity within the goth community. "Goth's been around for decades and it is not going away anytime soon. Get used to it and please ignore the crazies," Cross advises (50:00).
Notable Quotes
-
Alan Cross on Goth’s Growth:
"Unlike a lot of rock-based subcultures, it did not wither and die. Instead, it spread and got stronger." (03:15) -
On The Cure's Influence:
"The bigger they got, the more they became the de facto face of goth." (10:45) -
Marilyn Manson’s Dual Genre:
"A bit of both, really, and neither, actually." (28:50) -
Understanding Goth:
"Goth's been around for decades and it is not going away anytime soon. Get used to it and please ignore the crazies." (50:00)
Recommendations for Further Exploration
- Box Set: A Life Less Lived, the Goth Box (Rhino Label, 2006) – A comprehensive collection offering a historical overview of goth music.
- Record Labels: Metropolis Records, Dancing Ferret Records – Ideal for discovering contemporary goth bands.
- Publications: Drop Dead, Gothic Beauty, and various fanzines – Essential reading for goth enthusiasts.
Final Thoughts
"Good God - Part 2" serves as an extensive guide to understanding the goth subculture, its origins, evolution, and lasting impact on the music and broader cultural landscape. Alan Cross effectively demystifies goth, presenting it as a rich and enduring community that continues to thrive and influence across generations.