Ongoing History of New Music – “Why Punk Happened”

Host: Alan Cross (Curiouscast)
Date: September 10, 2025
Main Theme:
Alan Cross dives into the origins of punk rock, examining the complex social, economic, political, and cultural conditions in the mid-1970s that gave rise to this transformative genre in New York, London, Toronto, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. The episode explores how punk’s sound and rebellious attitude not only shook up music but also influenced art, fashion, politics, and youth culture globally.

Overview

Alan Cross contextualizes punk as one of rock’s major evolutionary leaps, contrasting it with previous musical “big bangs” like Elvis and The Beatles. He identifies punk as both an unexpected eruption ("a perfect storm") and a necessary reaction to a world undergoing socio-economic crisis and creative stagnation in popular music.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The “Perfect Storm” for a Musical Revolution

• Historical Parallels:
  • Elvis in the '50s: Sparked by demographic and technological shifts, responded to postwar youth culture ([02:06]).
  • The Beatles in 1964: Brought optimism post-JFK assassination ([02:06]).
  • MTV and music video culture in the ‘80s, Nirvana in the ‘90s, Hip-hop’s emergence ([02:06]).
• Punk’s Addition to the List:
  • “There’s one other event we need to include on this list, and that’s the rise of punk rock in the middle 1970s.” — Alan Cross [02:06]
• Punk as initially dismissed but ultimately world-changing:
  “It was an aberration, a niche thing that indulged weir and misfits and outliers. ‘It’s just noise,’ said the rock purists. ‘Ignore it, it’ll just go away.’ But it didn’t.” — Alan Cross [02:06]

New York: Punk’s Incubator

• Socio-Economic Turmoil ([04:00]):
  • New York was bankrupt and crime-ridden; artists were forced into cheap neighborhoods (the Bowery).
  • Music scene was stagnant, with little on mainstream radio to inspire.
• CBGB & Early Scene ([05:30]):
  • Venue began featuring new rock-oriented bands; artists attracted by cheap rent, mingled in a long, dingy bar.
  • “CBGB slowly became known as a place where disaffected and alienated artists of all kinds could hang out.” — Alan Cross [07:06]
• Founding Bands:
  • Television, The Ramones, Talking Heads, Blondie, Patti Smith.
    • The Ramones’ first show at CBGB (August 1974): “They were absolutely terrible… How can you possibly play 15 songs in 20 minutes? Is this some kind of joke?” [08:30]
    • Artsy crowd saw the Ramones’ minimalist approach as an artistic statement, even if the band itself hadn’t intellectualized their style ([09:00]).
• Scene’s Expansion:
  • “A music community begins to form around a few clubs like CBGB where like minded types begin to hang out and mingle and collaborate. And undisturbed by the rest of the music world, some interesting things begin to grow.” — Alan Cross [10:20]
  • These New York bands eventually caught the attention of UK listeners ([10:50]).

London: Punk and the Power of Shock

• More Severe Economic Crisis ([14:13]):
  • Britain still reeling post-WWII; rampant unemployment, strikes, rolling blackouts.
  • Deeply entrenched class system and rigid, formal social structures.
• Youth Alienation:
  • Hopelessness among young people; little upward mobility, few jobs.
• The Bill Grundy Incident ([17:00]):
  • The Sex Pistols’ infamous December 1, 1976, live TV appearance on ITV’s “Today,” punctuated by drunkenness, swearing, and on-air scandal.
    • Key exchange:
      • Grundy: “Are you serious or are you just making me laugh?”
      • Sex Pistols: “Oh yeah… Beethoven, Mozart, wonderful people. They really turn us on.” [19:45]
    • Grundy’s career ended, and British tabloids put “punk” on the front page nationwide the next day ([21:17]).
  • Significance:
    “While all the respectable people tried to recover from this horror, a lot of those alienated young people thought, ‘Oy, this is alright, let’s have more of this then.’ And so it began.” — Alan Cross [21:17]
• British Punk’s Unique Anger:
  • Driven by class antagonism, political outrage, and a desire to “destroy the status quo.”
  • “It gave a sense of power to the powerless.” — Alan Cross [23:00]
• Legacy:
  • Punk peaked during the “Winter of Discontent” (1978–79), after which Margaret Thatcher became prime minister, her policies ensuring punk’s political tone lasted for years.
  • The Clash exemplified the movement: “The Clash with Janie Jones, side one, track one of their debut record from 1977, the Winter of Discontent…” ([24:21]).

Punk’s Parallel Scenes: Toronto, LA, San Francisco

Toronto ([26:35])

• Socio-economic shocks:
  • Economic downturn, growing separatist tensions in Quebec, rising violent crime.
  • “Yonge street was a seedy place where no respectable person went.”
  • Sensational murder case (Emmanuel Jacques) shattered the city’s moral image.
• Punk’s Arrival:
  • Message caught on quickly; Toronto became the “third leg of a triangle that extended through both New York and London.”
  • Bands: The Viletones (first Canadian punk single, May 1977), with a vibrant albeit small scene.

Los Angeles

• Natural Home for Outcasts:
  • Noted for alienation, big city sprawl.
  • “As soon as the Ramones and some of the other New York bands started releasing records...LA took to punk very quickly.” — Alan Cross ([28:00])
• The Masque:
  • Central venue, home to X, The Germs, The Blasters, The Dills, and early punk-era Go-Go’s ([29:00]).
  • The Nerves released “Hanging on the Telephone” (1976), later reinterpreted by Blondie.

San Francisco

• Diverse Influences:
  • Mixed hippie, art, and political leanings; produced eclectic sounds.
  • First wave: The Avengers, The Nuns, The Dead Kennedys — the latter “helped set the table for what would later be called hardcore.” ([31:22])

Pivotal & Memorable Moments

• On New York Punk’s “Art School” Nature:
  “Most people now look back on [the Ramones] as a straight ahead buzzsaw punk band, but that wouldn’t be entirely correct… Because their goofiness was so unusual, they were accepted by the artsy crowd as some kind of grand artistic statement with a minimalist bent. Well, not really. That certainly wasn’t their intent.”
  — Alan Cross [08:30]

• On the Explosion after Bill Grundy:
  “The entire kingdom knew about punk rock… what had been a tiny, tiny, tiny scene all of a sudden was seeing a massive influx of adherents in all parts of the country.” — Alan Cross [22:10]

• On Punk’s Political Edge:
  “British punk went beyond just mere music. It involved kicking against the upper classes in the monarchy. It was about shocking the older generations. It was about challenging all manner of established institutions. It was all about destroying the status quo. In short, it gave a sense of power to the powerless.” — Alan Cross [23:00]

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “It was an aberration… said the rock purists. ‘Ignore it, it’ll just go away.’ But it didn’t. In fact, we’re still talking about punk rock.”
  — Alan Cross ([02:06])

• “CBGB slowly became known as a place where disaffected and alienated artists of all kinds could hang out.”
  — Alan Cross ([07:06])

• “By 6:18pm Bill Grundy's TV career was over and everyone was talking about those filthy young men on the telly.”
  — Alan Cross ([20:30])

• Sex Pistols, on live TV:

  • Grundy: “Are you serious or are you just making me laugh?”
  • Sex Pistols: “Oh yeah… Beethoven, Mozart, wonderful people. They really turn us on.” ([19:45])
  • Grundy: “Well, keep going chief… Say something outrageous.”
  • Sex Pistols: “Dirty bastard… dirty old man.” ([20:10])

Structural Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------| | 02:06 | Punk as a “perfect storm”; context of other musical revolutions | | 05:30 | Economic & social overview of 1970s New York | | 07:06 | The rise of CBGB and New York punk’s “big bang” | | 08:30 | The Ramones’ early days and scene-building | | 10:20 | Expansion of New York punk’s reach | | 14:13 | UK economic, political climate, and class struggle| | 17:00 | The Bill Grundy/Sex Pistols incident | | 19:45 | Transcript of Bill Grundy/Sex Pistols exchange | | 21:17 | Public outrage and the explosion of UK punk | | 23:00 | Punk’s role in giving “power to the powerless” | | 24:21 | The Clash and Margaret Thatcher’s rise | | 26:35 | Punk’s growth in Toronto | | 28:00 | Los Angeles scene and The Masque club | | 29:00 | The Nerves and LA-to-NY cross-pollination | | 31:22 | San Francisco punk, The Dead Kennedys | | 32:35 | Elvis Costello’s SNL rebellion; punk’s American impact|

Conclusion

Alan Cross’s episode serves as an accessible, vivid primer on the birth and spread of punk. He emphasizes punk’s origins in alienation and adversity, drawing connections between the scene’s divergent developments in America, the UK, and beyond. Ultimately, punk is portrayed as a necessary, explosive correction to a stagnant music and social culture — a “big bang” whose aftershocks continue to shape music today.

“Today’s music and today’s musical attitudes didn’t just happen. It’s all the result of years and years of evolution and mutation. And if you’re an alt rock fan, you cannot understand what’s happening now if you don’t look back to where it all came from… As far as alternative music is concerned, its big bang moment was in the mid-1970s and we’re still feeling the effects today.”
— Alan Cross ([33:00])

For listeners new to the story of punk or alt-rock, this episode is both highly informative and entertaining—packed with anecdotes, historical color, and cultural reflections, all delivered in Alan Cross’s characteristic narrative style.