S1 BONUS: Secrets in the Sets w/ Curt Beech & Rich Murray

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S1 BONUS: Secrets in the Sets w/ Curt Beech & Rich Murray

Date: March 2, 2022
Host: Michael Cyril Creighton (Howard), featuring interviews by Maggie Bowles
Guests: Curt Beech (Production Designer, S1), Rich Murray (Set Decorator, S1 & S2)

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Episode Overview

In this bonus episode, fans are treated to a deep dive into the art and intricacies of production design and set decoration for Only Murders in the Building, as Maggie Bowles sits down with Curt Beech and Rich Murray. Listeners get an inside look at how the physical spaces—the Arconia and the characters’ apartments—are constructed to reflect each character’s personality, history, and secrets. From the origins of specific props to playful details only true fans will spot, the episode celebrates the unsung heroes of visual storytelling.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. What is Production Design? (02:39–04:18)

• Curt Beech explains production design as the intersection of authenticity, story, and visual content:
  • “Really good Production design sits in the middle of a cute little Venn diagram where authenticity, story and visual content converge. That's where you want to get.” [02:39]
  • The goal: create believable spaces that serve both the actors’ craft and the audience’s immersion.
  • The art department—painters, carpenters, designers, decorators—contribute unique details that bring the fictional world to life.

2. Production Design & Set Decoration: Collaboration (04:18–06:43)

• Rich Murray details the balance:
  • Set decoration provides both grand statements and tiny, barely-noticed details, always in service of the script and characters.
  • “Story is built from detail.” — Curt Beech [05:13]
  • The best shows are a collaboration between writers, creators, and the art department, with each decision deeply rooted in character backstory.

Memorable Moment

• “That's why this project is special, and that's why there's gold in them gnar hills, because what John and the writers have created is so rich with detail that we don't have to look too far for it.” — Curt Beech [05:13]

3. Collaboration with Other Departments (07:10–11:24)

• Costume and set design need precise coordination. Timing is critical—sometimes costumes are chosen before drapes, other times vice versa.
• The risk of misalignment (e.g., clashing patterns on a sofa and a shirt) means constant communication.
• Notable Quote:
  “We lay out a board and we're like, this is what we're thinking about… And we just have to try and bounce off of each other and make sure that we're not conflicting too much because it could get ugly if we do. If we miss.” — Kurt Beech [08:21]
• Sometimes the costumers’ choices inform set decisions, such as when designing Bunny’s apartment, guided by her established wardrobe.

4. The Philosophy of Character Spaces:

(13:09–51:01, broken down by character)

Charles Hayden-Savage’s Apartment (13:21–26:59)

• Original Vision: Initially designed as a ‘90s bachelor pad; pivoted to a more sophisticated, art-collecting, smart investor.
• Key Details:
  • Focus on specific art and custom or high-end furniture “with a lightness and playfulness.” [15:32]
  • Art as story: Joseph Albers album covers, a distinctive “Nice Hot Vegetables” Ed Ruscha print—a playful Easter egg with a fabricated backstory about Charles purchasing it while working in LA on “Brazos” [22:53].
  • Each piece of art tells a part of Charles’s story, such as a portrait of a woman (hinting at his past relationships) or a “window mullions” painting (mirroring the show's themes of voyeurism).

Notable Quote:
“You know, there are only so many spots in the apartment to put art, so each one is an opportunity to tell something else about the character. And we take full advantage of it every single time.” — Kurt Beech [23:56]

Oliver Putnam’s Apartment (27:18–41:22)

• Theme: Maximalist, theatrical, and chaotic—reflecting his life and career in showbiz.
• Fun Facts:
  • Centerpiece: A stage in the living room, for late-night salons and parties.
  • Decorated with props and personal theater memorabilia—some from Rich’s and Curt’s own graduate school days (model sets, theater books).
  • Dining room guarded by a 10,000-pound marble mantelpiece and wallpaper hand-painted by Met Opera artists, homage to Oliver’s imagined opera-director father.
  • Insider Joke: Dozens of teacups scattered across the apartment, symbolizing Oliver’s scattered nature [39:51].
  • Posters of fictional shows like “Newark Newark” and “Splash: The Musical” reflect his illustrious and not-so-illustrious showbiz history, many created as an ongoing game between Rich and John (the showrunner).

Memorable Quote:
“If it wasn't theatrical, it didn't stay. It was gone immediately.” — Kurt Beech [28:16]

Mabel Mora’s Apartment (41:23–47:25)

• Theme: “A work in progress”—like Mabel herself.
• Set Features:
  • Partially renovated, with exposed studs and construction debris (which the crew often tried to mistakenly clean up!)
  • A $14,000 vintage sofa (the most expensive piece in the apartment), originally belonging to Mabel’s aunt.
  • Reflects both the original Arconia architecture and Mabel’s liminal, uncertain place in life—notably the “mural work” she paints on the walls.

Notable Quote:
“The most basic way to think of Mabel's is that it is what she is, which is a work in progress, simply.” — Kurt Beech [42:32]

Jan’s Apartment (48:28–49:57)

• Designed for misdirection: the foyer and common areas seem “safe and pretty,” hiding the character’s darkness within.
• Bathroom wallpaper: a pattern named "Nightshade," filled with images of poisonous plants—a subtle visual clue to Jan’s true nature.

Notable Quote:
“We found a wallpaper that was called Nightshade, and it's all poisonous plants, and it's all, like, Alice in Wonderland... and that was her bathroom wallpaper… this is, of course, her pathway.” — Rich Murray [48:58]

5. Easter Eggs & Hidden Jokes

• A “Nice Cold Vegetables” sign appears in a wintry flashback scene with Charles and his father—a playful callback to the “Nice Hot Vegetables” kitchen art [24:10].
• Dog Closet: An unseen “dog dress up room” in Oliver’s apartment full of SNL-inspired dog costumes, a private inside joke for the crew [00:02–00:45].
• Props and set dressing often double as in-jokes, or reference the actors’ real-life personas and careers.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the detail work:
  “Scenery is not funny. It shouldn’t be funny. But there can be humor in the work, and you can hide some things... but you want to be careful that it doesn't take the audience out of the reality.” — Kurt Beech [25:14]
• On Oliver’s maximalism:
  “We just decorated the crap out of it. And every time I walked in there, it was. There was more and more and more.” — Kurt Beech [28:28]
• On finding emotional depth:
  “All of his triumphs and his failures are on display in his apartment with all the show posters…” — Maggie Bowles [36:42]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:39: Production design explained (“Venn diagram”).
• 05:13: Story built from detail; set & production design symbiosis.
• 08:21: Costume and set coordination (and what happens when it goes wrong).
• 13:21–26:59: Deep dive into Charles’ apartment.
• 27:18–41:22: All about Oliver’s dramatic, overstuffed apartment—including the secret dog closet!
• 41:23–47:25: Mabel’s unfinished home and the $14,000 sofa.
• 48:28–49:57: Jan’s secrets in her set, and the poisonous wallpaper.
• 50:23: Teaser for Bunny’s apartment in Season 2.

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• The apartments are meticulously designed, each choice echoing and expanding on what’s known (and unknown) about the characters.
• Collaboration across departments is key; trust and creative freedom yield rich details and inside jokes.
• The décor is full of meaningful “Easter eggs,” references, and invented backstories that aren’t just for show—they reinforce the characters’ journeys, personalities, and sometimes even the core mysteries of the series.
• As the hosts note, while many fans hunt for literal clues in the visuals, the real magic often lies in the authenticity and storytelling woven into every corner of the Arconia.

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For fans of the series and anyone interested in the craft behind the camera, this episode is a playful and fascinating celebration of how set dressing, production design, and visual world-building bring characters and mystery to unforgettable life.

Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media.

[Rich Murray]

There's a closet in the. In Oliver's front hall. There are five doors. There's seven doors or 12 doors or however many doors there were. And there's a tiny little closet door here. I'm like, of course. This is where all the dogs costumes and leashes and bags go. So there's like the three amigos dog costume. There's like a wild and crazy guy dog costume. And there's an arrow through the head costume for a dog scale. So there's a whole closet full of Steve and Marty's old shows in dog form.

[Maggie Bowles]

A doggy dress up room. Yes.

[Rich Murray]

A dog dress up room that never was seen. And everyone sort of giggled about. And I'm like, yeah, it's there. If you want to open the door, you can open it.

[KK]

Welcome to another very special bonus episode of Only Murders in the Pod, the

[Elizabeth Keener]

show where we look behind the scenes and mine for clues as we meet the cast and creators of the Hulu original series Only Murders in the Building. I'm your host, Elizabeth Keener.

[KK]

And I'm your host, Kevin Lawn. And today on the show, producer Maggie Bowles is back. Hi, Maggie.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yay.

[Maggie Bowles]

Hi.

[KK]

She recently sat down with Kurt beach and Rich Murray.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Hi.

[Maggie Bowles]

Hi. How's it going?

[Kurt Beach]

Good. Can you hear me okay?

[Rich Murray]

Hi. Am I here?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yes. I talked to Kurt and Rich. I really wanted to know how much more I could get to know the characters by looking at the world that they live in, you know, which is basically built by the art department in the production design department. You know, there's artists, there's painters, designers, carpenters, all kinds of things. And obviously a production designer and a set decorator.

[Kurt Beach]

My name is Kurt Beach. I'm the production designer of season one of Only Murders in the Building.

[Rich Murray]

And I'm Rich Murray, the set decorator for seasons 1 and 2 of only murders in the Building.

[Kurt Beach]

For the record, I wanted to do season two, but I was working on a movie and the dates didn't line up and it just sucks. But they're in good hands now and it's going well, but it's not like I'm, like I'm not going back to Only Murders in the Building. Those yahoos.

[KK]

No way.

[Kurt Beach]

It is all love. I have nothing but love for these people. It was fantastic.

[Maggie Bowles]

So I for one, wasn't really 100% sure what production design includes or does. I know. I know I should know, but I don't really know. So I asked Kurt for his take on what, you know, good production design does.

[Kurt Beach]

Really good Production design sits in the middle of a cute little Venn diagram where authenticity, story and visual content converge. That's where you want to get.

[KK]

What does that mean?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Back to school.

[Maggie Bowles]

I know it sounds like. It sounds like kind of complicated, right? So we figured we would draw a little Venn diagram and look at it. We would have three circles. Authenticity, story, and visual content. And then right here, this little center part, that's production design.

[KK]

Oh, wow. They all overlap.

[Elizabeth Keener]

The center of everything.

[Maggie Bowles]

Did this help?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, that is the goal of life.

[Kurt Beach]

And I think you can have authenticity in a space film if you're doing, you know, science fiction. You can have story, you know, in a romantic comedy and even in farce, and you can have visual content in any. In all of the above. And, you know, comedy is a little bit more elusive. It's a little harder to pull it off. But what I'm always after is something completely authentic. It has to be believable or the audience is going to tune out immediately. So we're just trying to create spaces where the actors can do their best work and spaces that make sense for the characters and are realistic in the world that the writers have created.

[Maggie Bowles]

And what about how production design and set decoration come together? How are they different and how do they work together?

[Rich Murray]

Well, to me, it all comes about from the same task of serving the script and serving the characters in that decoration is one part of the design world. But in a way, it's the minutiae of the design world that often is either noticed or unnoticed or, you know, it all depends on what the camera wants to see. So we provide a world of big, splashy picture down to the minutiae of grains of sand or salt or whatever, and we give that all over to the camera team and to the director. And I think that's the way I like to think of it as being related, all in one world. And it's just different branches of the different teams that pull off that vision for the designer.

[Kurt Beach]

Yeah, I like to say that story is built from detail. We sometimes will have a detail that we really like, and that becomes the basis of an entire room or a set. And then sometimes we'll have a set, and then we will add details to it. But all of this comes about from text and story and backstory, and everything we're doing, we're trying to imbue with a history and a backstory. And that's why this project is special, and that's why there's gold in them gnar hills, because what John and the Writers have created is so rich with detail that we don't have to look too far for it. And then when we want to add to it, it's very easy to find because the characters are so richly developed and described. That's the true collaboration between a showrunner creator and the art department.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Can I just comment on how Rich and deep Rich. His voice is?

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay. I just want to.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's amazing.

[KK]

It's enchanting.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, continue.

[Maggie Bowles]

Definitely. Yeah. And Rich said that even though they have a new production designer for season two, the rest of the team has basically stayed the same. And so they've developed a really cool, trusting relationship with John Hoffman, the showrunner.

[Rich Murray]

He's so comfortable with us in terms of running with the story or running with those ideas visually and then telling that story visually for these characters that he is. He often just giggles with us and says, I trust you. Go with it. Go. And it's really kind of funny to have that sort of collaborative freedom in a way with a showrunner that, you know, oftentimes doesn't happen, and certainly not this early in the relationship. It's been a really great trip.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I would like to know how. I know it's a collaboration, but how do they make all of this happen? You need the actors. You have the costumes. You have the different departments. I want to know how the costumes and the sets kind of interact together. Yeah. How do they make that happen?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we talked a little bit about that, I feel like, with. With Dana last time, and she talked about, you know, the way they interact. But what I thought was really interesting talking to Kurt was that he pointed out how important the timing is in the decisions that they make, you know, for what they're wearing and where they live and what their house looks like. So I thought that was pretty cool.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You mean the timing of episodes or the timing of before they start? Like, is that what that exactly the timing of, or is he going to

[Maggie Bowles]

tell us the timing of when they make their choices? You know, so, you know, they. They're dressing a character, let's say, for episode, they're shooting episode three, and they haven't chosen their drapes yet in the place. So what do they choose first? You know, what's more important? Who are they matching to and, you

[Elizabeth Keener]

know, that kind of thing. Let's listen to him.

[Kurt Beach]

Oh, yeah. I mean, we get to a point where we have to start selecting fabrics and wall coverings and paint colors. And then, Rich, while I'm thinking about the walls and the room, Rich. Is thinking about, you know, what the decor is going to be, what that means to the characters. And, you know, we get to a point where we're like, oh, my gosh, if we do, like, a plaid sofa and she's got him in a plaid shirt, it's either going to look amazing or we're going to look like idiots. So we have to have that conversation about, you know, we lay out a board and we're like, this is what we're thinking about. These are the colors that we really like for this character. Where are you in your process? And we just have to try and bounce off of each other and make sure that we're not conflicting too much because it could get ugly if we do. If we do. If we miss.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, I would love to know. I mean, I think we'd all like to know. What. What does a miss look like?

[KK]

Yeah, exactly. Could it be like, the cat guy, but then he has this super slick apartment because they didn't realize, oh, yeah, he would be like.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Or the doggy stuff. The cat stuff. I don't know.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, I don't know. I was thinking maybe if, like, you had horizontal stripes on, like, a vertical striped sofa, maybe that would look bad.

[KK]

That would look bad.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That would look like a tic tac toe kind of thing, right?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

With some X's and O's. Throw them in there. No, that was terrible. Terrible. See, I missed. That was a miss.

[KK]

That was a miss.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, here we go.

[Kurt Beach]

Think about it in a. In a close up, right? Like, a sofa is a pretty big thing when you have a body and a big piece of fabric. So you have to think, you know, what is that going to be in. In a tighter shot? And. And how are those two things going to relate? And then what's right behind it, you know, a wallpaper could be contrasting and could really mess with that dialogue between these fabrics and ideas and shapes and all this stuff. So, yeah, we had a lot of conversations about how to make sure that we were both on the same page and that we're complementing each other and really expanding on the character together.

[Rich Murray]

Yeah, I think. And actually I was thinking of an instance in which it works almost in a collaboratively, the opposite way or the backwards way of that. Especially because of this show, we know who the characters are up front in a way. Like, in the first few episodes, we sort of figured out who everybody was, but we never saw Bunny's apartment, you know, so in that way, we knew who Bunny was based on the work that Dana had Done all last season. So when we do Bunny's apartment this season, that's. It's. It's much more informed by Dana's work already. She's already done all the homework for Bunny. And for us, it made it very easy to know, oh, yes, this is Bunny. This is not Bunny. This is Bunny. And this is not. And it was kind of great that way. And so when we showed her the boards of the wallpaper for the fabrics, all that stuff, she's like, yeah, this is perfect. Don't spend it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Rich Murray]

You know, because all of her work had already been done, and so we were just taking her lead. It was great.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Ah, the details. Right. It's just so amazing to me when they have everything thought out the next season and probably the next season, if it's still going.

[KK]

And it's very specific.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's very specific. And the way he was talking about how that's the teamwork when there's layers and it's just like. It's the exterior of the. Of the actor. Like, it's. It's kind of everything else around. Think about where we are right now and things that surround us. You know, that's part of who we are.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

When we're in our own space.

[KK]

And now I want to hear about everyone's apartment. What does the production design tell us about our main characters?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, yeah. But I also, you know, I want to get inside Bunny's apartment. I mean, there are answers about the mysterious circumstances surrounding her death. Are we aware of this? Remember, Kevin?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. I mean, so they said that we get to see inside of Bunny's apartment in season two, which is, I. I don't know, pretty exciting.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I'm nervous and excited.

[Maggie Bowles]

So, yeah, we. I mean, unfortunately, we don't know a whole lot about Bunny's apartment, but we will get to learn about the other characters. Like you wanted, K.K. yes. So we'll go through each of them one by one. But first, let's take a quick break.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Welcome back. Before the break, we talked about how the art department collaborates with the other parts of the production. And now we're going to dive into our main characters to see what secrets about their lives were hidden inside their apartments at the Arconia.

[KK]

Like a frozen cat leg. It's behind the couch.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yummy.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. So the first one I asked about was Charles.

[Kurt Beach]

We had an initial version of Charles that was, like, straight out of the 90s that we had done. And it was like a groovy bachelor.

[Maggie Bowles]

Y.

[Kurt Beach]

Very. Architectural Digest, New York City Bachelor's apartment, and it just felt a little bit too dated and out of touch for this man. So we looked at this first version, and then we changed some things. And in changing it, we actually addressed a lot of the things about the character that we did not know when we were having this meeting about. Once we had thrown this idea up on the wall, and then we crumpled it up and threw it away. And that is that he's a smart investor. So he made his money and saved wisely, spent wisely. He's a shrewd art collector. There's some really nice pieces of art in his apartment. Nothing extravagant, nothing that he can retire with, but some pieces that are worth quite a bit.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Wait, did you guys notice that he was a wise investor of art? Like, capital A art? Did you see stuff? I remember his music, and he had all. A bunch of records and, you know, all that, but I didn't really notice. Did you guys notice?

[KK]

I can't say I noticed the art specifically. I always liked his apartment the best. It was kind of clean and modern, but still comfortable. But I can't say I really noticed the art.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, Yeah, I definitely didn't notice either. Not that I know very much about art. You know, it wouldn't necessarily be the first thing I would notice. But if you think about it, you know, Charles definitely isn't very concerned with money.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right.

[Maggie Bowles]

In the show. Not like Oliver is, at least. And, you know, his house is very put together. It's always clean, and it has sort of a classy sense to it, like he spent some money on the things in there. And when I was doing research for this interview, I learned a lot about the art on his walls. And we'll. We'll talk about that more in a minute with Kurt and Rich. But one thing that Kurt said is that we definitely know that Charles has good taste in furniture.

[Kurt Beach]

Oh, this comes from an early discussion with. With Steve. So some of the pieces are very specific, specific manufacturers that he thought would be good for the character. And then overall, there's a playfulness to the apartment in the colors, in the materials, and all over it is. Is just a. Is a lightness. There's a lightness to it, and. And a playfulness. And we. We all agreed that that was really important. And we had a couple of key images that we really liked that we were working off of and trying to. To get a certain vibe from.

[Maggie Bowles]

So are there any things inside of Charles's apartment that you remember? I mean, K.K. you said it was your favorite, but is there anything like any furniture or art or specific.

[KK]

I do remember there was a sign in the kitchen, and it was. It said nice hot vegetable.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I knew that one for sure. I think I. I talked about that.

[KK]

We did talk about it because we thought it was a clue.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We thought everything was a clue. But yes, and we thought. And I love that it's.

[Maggie Bowles]

It.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It is playfulness. Like, I think it feels like maybe a little bit of Steve Martin Persona in there in the sense of his playfulness. And he's really his. Yeah. His thought of beauty. I mean, it really is. I loved his apartment. I really did. I just didn't pay attention to the artwork except for the nice hot vegetable.

[KK]

And that's a good reminder to eat your vegetables.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. And remember Brady Bunch? Do you remember the Brady Bunch? They had. What was it? It was pork chop and applesauce. Wasn't.

[KK]

They had a little chocolate.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It wasn't chalk, so that was not high. This is.

[Maggie Bowles]

Well, actually it is. And we'll talk about that in a minute. But there was some other kind of cool stuff that Kurt pointed out too.

[Kurt Beach]

There's a collection of four album covers on his wall in the kitchen that are from some 1960s era percussion records. And these record covers are designed by Joseph Albert. So the artist who did Homage to the Square, like the square and the Square like blocks that everyone's familiar with.

[Maggie Bowles]

Are you guys familiar with Joseph Albers and Homage to the Square?

[KK]

I was not familiar with it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Did you look it up? I mean, like.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, I looked it up.

[Maggie Bowles]

You've probably seen them in a museum. Apparently he did hundreds of these. Like, it's a study on.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. And it becomes about the colors. And I just love that it almost

[KK]

has like a 60s or a 70s kind of look to it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

[KK]

Like a Palm Springs kind of vibe, huh?

[Maggie Bowles]

For sure. Yeah. So I looked it up and when I saw it, I was like, ah, yeah, that's it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's it.

[KK]

See, we're learning things.

[Kurt Beach]

So that's just like a little, you know, it's nice. They're nice pieces. They're thoughtfully chosen for him and they come out of a knowledge of. Of art and music. We have a list of Easter eggy stuff that we've thrown in there that's, you know, that's. That's fun to think about with him.

[Rich Murray]

A couple of things like character based that we looked at. Wanted to sort of play with a bit a. That first he was like, very meticulous and very much about things being in order and place. And it's funny because they sort of picked up on that as the season went on. So everything about his space has its own place for it.

[Kurt Beach]

And this is. This is really useful because there's so much contrast between the two characters. And, you know, basically everything that Richto is talking about now is the opposite.

[Rich Murray]

Exactly.

[KK]

So it's a.

[Kurt Beach]

You know, it's an Oscar and Felix situation.

[Rich Murray]

Exactly. And it was funny because, like, one of the things that we talked about first and one of the things that really launched the look and feel of his apartment for us was the striped fabric on the sofa in the living room and pretty much everything, like. Because those choices are rather arbitrary in that design world, you know, And, I mean, they. They feel. They.

[Kurt Beach]

Emotionally, no design choice is arbitrary. Rich Murray.

[Rich Murray]

Of course not, but, you know, because

[Kurt Beach]

there is not one arbitrary choice in any of the apartments. This has been a lovely interview.

[Rich Murray]

Thanks for coming. I absolutely love you.

[Kurt Beach]

Gosh, you're breaking up. We're not.

[Rich Murray]

How did we end up working together? No, what I meant was, like, the arbitrary in that there could have been any number of choices made to sort of be the launching point for Charles character. That this was such a rigid, sort of exciting, colorful, and something very sophisticated for him was what I thought was, oh, this is great. And this says this character, you know, Kurt already mentioned the names of, you know, the pieces of furniture and all of that stuff. Like, everything. Everything in there is essentially not a catalog. It's a custom piece, or it was a showroom piece that we tried to pull in. And that was important to him because everything has significance for Charles. And then in that same way, all of the art in his apartment, and Kurt and Steve were very great about, like, leading this to make sure that all of the art meant something in his place. So, like, we have the main portrait of the woman walking away in the living room, obviously, you know, is very much a part of who this character is. There's a big piece of art in the hallway that you see from the kitchen that looks like nothing but, like, window mullions. So it's like looking out windows and peeping into other people's lives through these windows. There's like, a Starsky and Hutch sort of, like, car that feels very much like a police car from the 80s in the family room. And we thought that was sort of like a wrap gift or something from one of his past seasons on Brazos.

[Kurt Beach]

And then there's the Ed Ruscha, which. There's an Ed Ruscha that says, nice, hot vegetables.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. In the kitchen.

[Rich Murray]

In the kitchen.

[Kurt Beach]

In the kitchen. We made up a whole story for that.

[Maggie Bowles]

So there it is, the nice hot vegetables. Ed Ruscha. It's actually a famous artist and famous, Famous painting. Do you guys, or I'm curious, what you think Charles's backstory would be for having a painting like that.

[KK]

Well, we know it's not a clue.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's definitely not a clue. I. I don't. What's a good backstory? Nice. Well, now he's. Oh, you know, he's doing his. He's cooking himself and he's putting a lot of vegetables in his omelet, but I feel like now he's cooking for himself. Like I said, he's not really. Nobody's cooking with him for him.

[Maggie Bowles]

Right.

[KK]

Well, what I was thinking, since we know it's not a clue, maybe it had something to do with Lucy, Charles's girlfriend's daughter, and maybe that was something they would cook together. And that's a sign they found at flea market.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's where the omelet is on a Sunday. Vegetables in the.

[KK]

Maybe it's tied to that.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I think we're right.

[KK]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's definitely not an art piece you would find at a flea market. I think it's an expensive art piece.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But yeah, I said I think that

[Maggie Bowles]

you guys will like, like the story that the art department came up with. Why, why Charles has it.

[Kurt Beach]

So it's, it's very expensive, like now. But we made up a story that while he was shooting Brazos in whatever year he was in L. A at some point working on the show, he went to a party, he met Ed Ruscha, went to the studio, they became pals. He bought a piece and it's in his kitchen now. It's now worth, you know, several hundred thousand dollars. But back then it wasn't. But he's smart and he's shrewd and, you know, he got the piece for a lark from someone he had met at an LA party.

[KK]

That's a better story.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That definitely is better than the omelette story.

[KK]

AKA I like that they bring Brazils

[Elizabeth Keener]

back process, you know, I was going to say, what did he do with his residual checks? Yeah, not the ones today that are penny, but I'm talking about the ones back then that were a few hundies.

[Maggie Bowles]

Apparently he bought some art.

[Elizabeth Keener]

He did buy smart and he's shrewd and he did that.

[KK]

Good investment.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Good for him.

[Kurt Beach]

You know, there are only so many spots in the apartment to put art, so each one is an opportunity. To tell something else about the character. And we take full advantage of it every single time.

[Rich Murray]

Something else about Steve's. And maybe this is a little sort of tidbit on Easter eggs in the first episode. I think there's a flashback this year of Charles Hayden and his father in the 1950s out on the street, across the street from the Arconia. And there's a. It's a wintry scene, and there's a vegetable and fruit cellar vendor on the street. And we hand painted a sign saying nice cold vegetables for that street vendor. And, you know, it's deep background all the way down the block. You never know if you're ever gonna see it. But it was kind of funny because we painted it with, like, the same oranges and greens and, you know, in the same. But it was all. But it feels part of that, you know, fruit vendor in that everything else there was orange and green and brown as well.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Is that the sound of Kurt laughing in the background? Are we getting rooked again? Is this not real?

[Maggie Bowles]

No, no. Kurt is laughing because he actually thought that was hilarious. And it was the first time he heard about it since he's not on season two. So he thought that was very funny. But he did go on to add this.

[Kurt Beach]

I like to say that scenery is not funny. It shouldn't be funny. But there can be humor in the work, and you can hide some things that are funny, but you want to be careful that it doesn't take the audience out of the reality of what the characters are doing. So it has to be done with a very light touch.

[Maggie Bowles]

I could even see working that into his backstory. Maybe that's why he was drawn to that image in the studio when he met him the first time.

[Rich Murray]

And you just made that. You just made that up with us. Exactly. That's exactly where it came from.

[Kurt Beach]

It just eventually it feeds itself, you know, and the decisions become very easy to make because they make sense. Because you get to know the characters well enough and. And then you're creating all these stories around them.

[KK]

It sounds like every piece has a story. And it was very specific. And we're learning all of these things that we never would have put together.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's what we were just talking about a little while ago. It's just so amazing. I think we were so fixated on

[KK]

trying to find clues.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Trying to find clues. But. But instead of that, just enjoy the, you know, what we're gonna do this season. We are going to look at things in a different light, but we're going to still look for the clues, but we're going to see them in a different way in the details and in the beauty of each character.

[KK]

We should write this down.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, you're writing it down. I don't write anything down.

[Maggie Bowles]

Sounds like a New Year's resolution.

[KK]

It does. But I also wonder what else is lurking there that we just don't know yet.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

This is so exciting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Well, and you know, who knows, maybe that is, you know, relevant to the way that Charles acts, you know, I don't know.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I don't know either. I think I act like I know, but I don't.

[KK]

That's true.

[Maggie Bowles]

So that's it for Charles. Let's take another quick break and then when we get back, we'll go into Oliver's maximalist apartment and find out what that tells us about his past.

[KK]

Welcome back. So we just spent some time learning about Charles and how his past is reflected in his living space.

[Maggie Bowles]

And now I think let's talk about the one and only Oliver Putnam op.

[Kurt Beach]

There's nothing really in Oliver's. We didn't do much.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, it's very minimalist, for sure.

[Rich Murray]

First.

[Kurt Beach]

Yeah, there's not much.

[Rich Murray]

He doesn't have a house. We don't have a housekeeper. He does not have a housekeeper. Which is the decision we made. Right. You know, you know, Charles, Aidan has a housekeeper and she's there twice a week. Or he's there twice a week. Oliver doesn't have a housekeeper. We are flashing back to Oliver in the 90s where he does have a housekeeper in the second season, which is kind of funny because it's completely throwing our minds Exactly. In the wrong way for Oliver.

[KK]

Right.

[Kurt Beach]

Oh, so you gotta clean up Oliver's.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[Rich Murray]

Who is this guy when he looks like turtles? But Oliver, everything there was like. Right, Kurt? I mean, it was all about the theatricality of it. It was his career, his life.

[Kurt Beach]

Yeah, I mean, that was actually the word that we used in choosing everything for Oliver's. If it wasn't theatrical, it didn't stay. It was gone immediately.

[Maggie Bowles]

He's got a stage in his. In his living room. Right.

[Kurt Beach]

He's got a stage in his living room. So that was one of the first things we did in the design was propose that there would be a stage in there, a place for, you know, late night salons with actors and directors and other artists to come and hang out at the house. And you can just imagine these, you know, booze infused parties that, and there's grand piano and inevitably someone's going to wind up on the stage singing some show tunes. And that's going to go on pretty late at night. He's not going to make a lot of friends on that floor, which is probably another problem that he's dealing with in the building. Probably why Bunny had it in for him. So the stage was important. That was the first thing we came up with. And then everything else sort of came out from there in the ground plan. And then we just decorated the. Well, we. I say we, but it's Rich. And his crew just decorated the crap out of it. And every time I walked in there, it was. There was more and more and more. And. And I started looking at the books and like, where did all these books come from? And Rich is like, oh, they're mine. What are you talking about? He's like, oh, no, they're mine. I brought them from my storage. And it's all my theater books from theater school. I was like, no.

[Rich Murray]

And Kurt and I got out of graduate school around the same time, and he still had all of his models from sets that he built in grad school. So he shipped those in.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, wow.

[Rich Murray]

And we put those models into the study area. So it was a very easily sort of collaborative. I'm like, oh, God, I don't have any models left. I threw them all out when I was a kid, but I.

[Kurt Beach]

But I was an idiot and kept mine. And they've been sitting in storage. And I'm so happy that they're gone from my life. And now they're part of television history.

[Rich Murray]

Another part of television history. Like, oh, you know, I lost my Riverside Shakespeare. Oh, well, you know, Never gonna read that again.

[Elizabeth Keener]

This is so funny because Kevin and I were just talking about. I had probably. I finally cleared out a closet and I had about 150 plays from Samuel French. Samuel French, which is a art store that has so 150 plays. Whether they were. It was amazing. And I literally just gave them. I tried to get them back to Samuel French and then a school or anything, and nobody. And I gave them to Goodwill, but I really tried to stop. It's so funny that we're talking about, but I. I purged and it feels good.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. If only there had been a show with, like a playwright that you could have stocked.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I could have stocked. And given.

[KK]

I think it would be easier to do some spring cleaning if you were giving your stuff to a TV show where you could kind of visit it again, because you could just put on Hulu and see all your stuff again. And you don't have to pay for

[Elizabeth Keener]

a storage unit 10 years later.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. I think also if you have, you know, really cool stuff that would lend itself really well to somebody really theatrical, like. Like Oliver. I don't know. Do you guys remember when we talked to Jess Rosenthal, the producer during season one? He told us about Oliver's dining room that looked like an Italian opera house?

[KK]

Yeah. That really paints a picture. You get it, you get.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You get it. And then, you know, and all the world's a stage. He put a little stage. It's literally. I think you can see the stage from his table. So you can do anything with any of that stuff. So it. Yeah. Really painted a picture for.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. So because Jess brought it up, I asked Rich and Kurt about it, and they had another really cool backstory for that one.

[Kurt Beach]

This was once again, another story that we invented ourselves and took to John, and it became a backstory that, you know, just had life. So the story of the wallpaper is that we imagine that Oliver's father might have been an opera director and that Oliver was the black sheep of the family going into theater. Oh, no. So he went into musical theater and Broadway, and that was looked down upon, but he still loved the opera.

[Maggie Bowles]

So let me pull up. Let me pull up this dining room to refresh your memory.

[KK]

Oliver's dining room.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I mean, it's pretty beautiful. I mean, there's a lot of.

[KK]

It's very ornate.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's very. I think that he is gauche.

[KK]

It looks like when you're going on a tour of like an opera house in Europe. And this is. This is exactly what you would imagine.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's his homage to his daddy.

[KK]

And this is his dining room.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And this is his dining room.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. And it's also. You remember where he pitches Splash, the musical.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, the ill fated. Everything. Everything's just Splash. He just. The ill fated.

[KK]

Very theatrical.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yes, definitely. And they actually painted each of those scenes, like one by one. Kurt says they had the art department make the wallpaper from scenes of the opera. So that when he was pitching, like we saw him pitch Watch the musical, it was like he was on a stage performing. And it was actual Met opera painters who painted the drapery in the center of the. Of the room too, because apparently the opera was not happening because it was coveted.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It was Covid. There wasn't have anything happening.

[KK]

So they. They basically created their own wallpaper.

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow. Yeah. The whole. I mean, they did that a lot in a lot of the place. But that specifically, I thought was pretty cool.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Details, KK Details. And none of them were clues.

[Maggie Bowles]

I mean, yeah, not yet. Not maybe not for the murder.

[Kurt Beach]

And then Rich found a little. What was the little thing at the end of the room that you found?

[Rich Murray]

It was £10,000 of marble. What's so funny about the whole series is you don't see it, I don't think, at all, in the entire first season. And it is just the most gloriously European carved marble mantelpiece that is like 10ft wide, £10,000, and was just stupid. And I looked at it like, of course this is the answer.

[Kurt Beach]

Yeah, it's the answer until you bring it on the set and we have to reinforce the stage underneath it.

[Rich Murray]

Try storing it over a summer and reinstalling it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So, okay, so they had to put 10,000 pounds of marble away for the summer and take it back out again for season two. I mean, it's not like a public storage kind of thing. Right? It's not like. No, they literally.

[Maggie Bowles]

I don't know if they use a crane. I don't really know what £10,000 feels like.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Get that U Haul.

[KK]

Just throw a tarp over it and wish for the best.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

This is amazing how this is now the second. I'm sure there's many, many more, but the second one, they were talking about something that they were talking about with the doggy. All the doggy closet thing that wasn't seen in the first season two. All the thought process that we're going to hopefully see in the second.

[KK]

Still lurking. Still lurking.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Well, apparently you get to see the marble of it in season two. And Rich also says now they're thinking about making, like, a vacuum form or plastic sculpted version of it to make it easier to move on the crew.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Finally they listen to me.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. But it's not just in the dining room that that opera theme is present. It's actually kind of throughout the entire apartment.

[Rich Murray]

There's a chair that I found at an auction that was from the original Metropolitan opera House from 1930s, and that sits right next to the piano in the living room. There's a scrap of architectural salvage that hangs above his bar that was from the original opera house. And then just everything we did was about the show in there, including even like, the sheet music on the piano is often the Duke Ellington version of Solitude.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Kurt Beach]

Yeah.

[Rich Murray]

So it's all about the character. I mean, it's really sort of sad.

[KK]

Oliver is responsible for so much comedic relief. It's easy to forget about his loneliness and solitude. And he's probably eating Lean Cuisines, for one.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But do you remember? I mean, listen, it's all about, like, you know, like, clowns laughing on the inside, you know, that kind of stuff. It's all. I mean, there really is. Comedy comes from tragedy a lot of times. And that's the truth of it, though. That's why it's really hard to do comedy at times. It really is.

[KK]

Dying's easy. Comedy's hard. That's what they say.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Big time.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. I think it's cool, kind of that, you know, all of his triumphs and his failures are on display in his apartment with all the show posters and that. That sort of thing. And Kurt says that they had a lot of fun coming up with the titles and the posters for those.

[Kurt Beach]

This is a parlor game between Rich and John, coming up with names for these ridiculous plays that went up on the walls. The list was awesome. And it kept going back and forth between the two of them, and eventually we kept whittling it down.

[Maggie Bowles]

What were some of your favorites, Rich, do you remember?

[Rich Murray]

Newark Newark, I think, was the favorite.

[Kurt Beach]

Yeah, that's why we did that one.

[Rich Murray]

Really big.

[Kurt Beach]

Newark.

[Maggie Bowles]

Newark, I think I actually remember seeing that one.

[KK]

I definitely remember that one too.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, I remember that one. And then, you know, there's some other.

[KK]

Newark. Newark.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. What was the other? Well, obviously the main one.

[Maggie Bowles]

Splash.

[Elizabeth Keener]

The music.

[KK]

Splat.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Or splat. Was it splat?

[KK]

It was splash, but they. The critics called it splash.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Like, wait, wait a minute. Where was I?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, yeah, I saw. I saw that. They. They put a couple of them onto the only Murders Instagram that I can show you. We've got this one, Splash, the musical Splash.

[KK]

And that's a big one, too.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So good.

[Maggie Bowles]

This one.

[KK]

Everyone Can Whistle in the Rain. That seems like a knockoff of something.

[Maggie Bowles]

I remember.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. I don't know what that is, but I remember the visual of that.

[Maggie Bowles]

There's Newark. Newark.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. Remember that one?

[Maggie Bowles]

And then this one.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, I didn't even see that.

[KK]

That's a doll's house. That's beautiful Woman in a very small house.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, I actually don't get the reference on that one. Do you guys get the reference?

[KK]

A doll's house?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, just a big person in a little house.

[Kurt Beach]

I don't know.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, well, yeah, they're. I mean. Oh, I see. I see. So he did Ibsen, but he made this really silly.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. Oh, yes. Yes, exactly.

[Maggie Bowles]

Gotcha. That makes sense. Yeah.

[KK]

A woman in a very small dollhouse. Yeah, literally.

[Maggie Bowles]

Literally. They missed the point, I guess, because they did read that play, actually.

[Rich Murray]

So his place is full of all those little insider jokes and, like, the rest of the art in the. In his space is all stuff he stole from a set, Stuff that his wife liked, and he's. You know, when they were still married, and he just stole from a set, you know, none of it's of any significance, really. It's all the other little stuff around the house that are. You know, he. Also, one of the little things that we have there in Oliver's is that he's sort of scattered and he's sort of impulsive. So, like, on every table or every little ledge in the house, there's like three or four or five empty teacups. Because he drops. He drops his tea to go answer the door, you know, and he drops his tea to go, you know, oh, I just thought of something. And he runs the piano, you know, and so there's all those little bits of things where it's just a mess, really, in his house. But if you look at it even closer, it's really just a dirty tea bag sitting in a different teacup and that and that.

[Kurt Beach]

I. I walked onto the set. It was, you know, in the hours before we were gonna shoot it. And I'm walking around, I'm like, what is up with all the teacups?

[Rich Murray]

I'm like, I woke up to witch.

[Kurt Beach]

I'm like, what is going on with the teacups? And he's like, well, here's the story with the teacups.

[Maggie Bowles]

I was like, of course.

[Kurt Beach]

It makes all the sense.

[Rich Murray]

And Marty walked in, and he's like, oh, my God, I can't believe this. You know, when you have that sort of freedom to collaborate and play like this, it's just magical. It's the most fun ever, you know? I mean. And we're doing it this season, too, Kurt. Sadly, I see the tears, but we're, you know, we're doing this. It's the same thing this season as well. We're having a blast. And, like, when you think of bunnies, what do bunnies do? You know, that's where we're going with, you know, Bunny's apartment. Who is Bunny? Who is this character? And that's the.

[Kurt Beach]

Okay, that's enough.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, no. Come on. What do bunnies do?

[KK]

What do bunnies do? Jumping and sex.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Sex.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. I. I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell when he said that if he was giving away a clue and he was trying to shush him, or if he was, like, clutching his pearls and going, like, you know, about the sex thing.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. I don't know. I think it was. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I choose to believe there's a clue in there, but he didn't give it to us, so.

[KK]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, I don't know. But are you guys ready to learn about Mabel and what her apartment tells us about her now?

[KK]

Definitely. I'm very curious about Mabel's apartment.

[Maggie Bowles]

What do you think you know about Mabel, based on where she lives?

[Elizabeth Keener]

You mean blame? I think. Well, it's.

[KK]

Well, first of all, it's her aunt's apartment.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's her aunt's apartment. It's very industrial, let's put it that way.

[KK]

She made a choice.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She made a choice to not do it thing. So I don't know. It's a.

[KK]

Well, it's being renovated.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Being renovated. But it's a bit. You know, she seems to me like she covers her loneliness, too. And I see it in there. If she. She doesn't want anything done to it, you know, maybe she acts like she's got it all together, but then maybe she feels like she doesn't deserve to fix it up. I don't know. It's. I think she's got some depth to

[KK]

her and a very slow renovator.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Here's what Kurt said about it.

[Kurt Beach]

I mean, the most basic way to think of Mabel's is that it is what she is, which is a work in progress, simply. And this renovation project that was stopped at some point, you know, she hasn't done anything since she's walked in. And we just wanted it to be beautiful in a ruinous kind of way. And I think it is. And we just. We found this piece of reference with this wall that had been removed down to the studs. And it's great. It gives instant depth from every angle. And it really worked out nicely. So there are some details in her place that you have to look a little bit harder for that show a little bit of history in that apartment. That there's an 80s layer. 80s, 90s layer to it. There's the mural work that she's doing, which is really important. There's a lot of, like, trash and stuff from the renovation project that people kept cleaning up, which drove me insane because it's all dressing, and everyone's like, oh, my gosh, we need to move this stuff. We gotta get this out of here.

[Rich Murray]

No, the dumpster belongs right there. I put it there. It belongs there.

[Kurt Beach]

I kept moving it to the same place. Why do people. And why are you putting trash in the dumpster? Of course you're putting Trash on the dumpster. You think it's a dumpster? It's not. It's set decorations. So that was a challenge. And then when we finally shot it, I was like, what is that roll of paper doing there? And someone had the same thing. The opposite thing happened where people were putting down construction things to do projects in there, getting in the days leading up. But then no one cleaned it up because I was being so specific about not cleaning up in there. So there's some things in there that don't really belong there, but they became a fact once it had been shot. You know, careful what you wish.

[KK]

But that's funny that people were actually leaving extra stuff. They're like, who left 10,000 pounds of marble on Mabel's couch?

[Elizabeth Keener]

What's happening here?

[Maggie Bowles]

I mean, you definitely notice if there was £10,000 of marble in Mabel's apartment, Because, you know, there's just not a lot of stuff. Stuff in there. You know, she hasn't lived there nearly as long as Oliver and Charles. And, you know, as you said, it's not even really her apartment. It belongs to her aunt. And I think, you know, when I think about Mabel's apartment, I think the most prominent piece of furniture I think of is that really old sofa, if

[Elizabeth Keener]

you're at all right.

[Rich Murray]

The sofa was just a. And that was one of the first pieces of research that John sent us was the sofa for Mabel's. He just wanted a really cool, classy, vintage old thing that to anyone else looks like it just came out of a dumpster or out of an alley. And to us, was the most important or most expensive piece of furniture we bought last season. Which is weird, right?

[Kurt Beach]

Yeah. That crappy sofa in maple is like thousand dollars sofa.

[Rich Murray]

It's real. It's real. It's in excellent condition. It's 45 years old. It's glorious. Yeah. It never lived in a fraternity house,

[KK]

which is good. Wait, how many thousand dollars for the couch?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. We couldn't make it out in his audio when we were listening back. So we emailed him and asked him, and he said, $14,000 for that sofa.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's all my furniture.

[KK]

Does Mabel even have a job? Like, have we established how she makes money?

[Elizabeth Keener]

And it was it. Is it her couch or was it her aunt's couch?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[KK]

I mean, is everything else in storage?

[Maggie Bowles]

These are all really good questions, I think. Based on what? First of all, does she have a job? I have no idea. I would love to know. But based on what Ridge said, I think it's safe to Say that the sofa belonged to her aunt.

[KK]

That makes sense.

[Rich Murray]

I look back on it now, and I'm like, oh, yeah. You know, I see the world where that sofa and those chandeliers and those curtains live. And then her aunt, I don't think, has renovated recently, and it's sort of run down, although she has the money and the wherewithal to redo it. That's why Mabel's there. That's why she's there. Yeah. So it's. So it's a perfect sort of like, blank slate for Mabel, and yet all of this rich texture and interesting intricate detail all at once.

[Kurt Beach]

It's a very good expression of the original world of the Arconia architecture, too. Where Steve's has been heavily renovated, Marty's has been done in a gentleman's lounge style. This one is probably the closest to the original layout and style of the architecture of the Arconia. I say it like it's a real place.

[Maggie Bowles]

I might as well be at this point.

[Rich Murray]

It exists now on Google Maps. Have you seen that? You can search for the Arconia on Google Maps and it comes up.

[KK]

I did not know that. We should go look it up right now.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, shallow. Yes.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's right next door to a CVS pharmacy. And actually, if you look at the street view, that's definitely.

[KK]

Oh, that's definitely it. Because that's the courtyard and the archway.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Look at that.

[Maggie Bowles]

So this is the exterior of the Arconia. You know, they said they shot some of the lobby scenes there. And also, you know, the. The episode where the Hardy boys break into one of the apartments.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right.

[Maggie Bowles]

Apparently, that apartment is in the real.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Is real building.

[KK]

And then I think they probably did the apartments on a stage where they

[Elizabeth Keener]

could just the rest of it.

[KK]

Yeah. Full access all the time.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Doing the exteriors and the Hardy boards thing.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's great. Yeah. So I. I mean, I think it's really cool to learn, you know, all kinds of how all this information is hidden inside of the production design for Charles and Oliver and Mabel. So obviously, that begs the question, you know, what about Janest?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, the sexy bassoonist?

[Kurt Beach]

That one had to be done pretty much down the middle in order to keep it as a. As a secret. So initially, her foyer is kind of hiding what's within. So we tried to make that look kind of safe and pretty and nothing like the horror that she is. We had to try to trick the audience with that one. But, Rich, you may continue.

[Rich Murray]

This is hysterical because when we get to the end, when Oliver and Mabel break into her apartment, and into her bathroom, and they find her kit full of poisons. We found a wallpaper that was called Nightshade, and it's all poisonous plants, and it's all, like, Alice in Wonderland. And that was her bathroom wallpaper. It was this, like, poison potion, plant growing vine craziness. And then it also had, like, you know, alarm clocks and candy canes and stuff. And it was totally whacked out. Alice in Wonderland, Poison World. And we're like, this is, of course, her pathway.

[KK]

I want to go back and watch that episode now because I want to get a better look at this. But don't you think that would be fun to have that wallpaper in your bathroom and see if people start commenting on it? Because then you have a whole story.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. I don't know if I would recognize poisonous plants on a wallpaper, you know, and if I did, that would say something kind of weird about me.

[KK]

It probably would.

[Maggie Bowles]

So I did try to get some information about season two out of them.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Good try. Maggie.

[KK]

How did this go?

[Maggie Bowles]

Do you want to hear what Rich said?

[KK]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay.

[Maggie Bowles]

Last thing is, I know, Kurt, you're not on season two, but Rich, maybe you can tell us anything you can tell us about. About season two. I guess we've learned that we're going to see Bunny's apartment. That's pretty exciting.

[Rich Murray]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Spoiler alert.

[Rich Murray]

Bunny's dead. So we get to see her space. And, of course, like Tim Konos last season, it plays. Is featured pretty heavily. And that was such a joy to do because, like, you'd think you know who Bunny is. And until you sit down and try to pick her wallpapers. And she's also the sort of meticulous, detail focused. You know, she always holds the grudge, and she always remembers every little note. So we had to work all of that into bunnies this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

So, you know, big takeaway here is I think that Bunny is a lot more complex than we ever may have realized during season one.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, Maggie, that's reaching, but yes. I mean, yes, absolutely. But aren't you wanting to see Bunny's apartment, though?

[KK]

How do you picture her apartment? I see a couch that has those plastic covers on it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, yeah.

[KK]

I see a glass crystal candy dish with hard candies that are still, like, stuck together.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You are reminding me of the seventies.

[Maggie Bowles]

So you're really. You really see Bunny as an old lady? Like a classic old lady.

[KK]

That's how I picture her apartment.

[Maggie Bowles]

So did you guys. Do you feel like you learned anything new about Charles or Oliver Mabel based on you know what curtain Rich told

[Elizabeth Keener]

us, really, if I look at them now, I really can see the frenetic of the one and the calm of the other. The way this actor was more, you know, serene. And when in his television and he was all out there with the state, it just really shows the differences of the two.

[KK]

And at Oliver's, he had so much stuff like the teacups and the dog closet and everything else that it's. There's so much stuff that you almost don't notice the loneliness and it getting back to it again. It's almost like he's surrounding himself with things so he's not so alone. He's around like his friends.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[KK]

He finds comfort in that.

[Elizabeth Keener]

He finds comfort. And you look at that table, that was a big table, Right. So he used to have big dinner parties and now he's just table cuisine for one. For one.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. That's true. I also feel like we still really don't know very much about Mabel, except, you know, that she's a work in progress. And I wonder, like, does that make her suspicious?

[KK]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[KK]

Well, we don't know what she does. What does she do for work? Where is she going?

[Elizabeth Keener]

She was left money. Even though. Wait, her aunt's still. Still around, Right. But given her mind, maybe she has some sort of, you know.

[Rich Murray]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Where is her aunt?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't know. I still. She's. I mean, I'm still going to call her blame. So let's start from there.

[KK]

Thanks for listening to the very special bonus episode of Only Murders in the Pod. Keep sending your thoughts and theories to [e-mail] as we continue waiting for season two, we'll be releasing more bonus content. Take a minute to subscribe. Rate Follow Review if you like the

[Elizabeth Keener]

show Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media, hosted by me, Elizabeth Keener and Kevin Lan Me, produced by Ryan Tillotson, Maggie Bowles and William Sterling. Associate producer is Stephen Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt. Only Murders in the Building original score music by Siddhartha Khozla and big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Ari Abishe and the entire Hull.