S1 E4: The Sting

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S1 E4: The Sting

Release Date: September 8, 2021
Host: Elizabeth Keener & Kevin Lon
Guests: Kristen Newman (Writer, S1E4), Amy Ryan (Jan)

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast dives behind the scenes of Episode 4, “The Sting,” with writer Kristen Newman and actor Amy Ryan (Jan). Hosted by Elizabeth Keener and Kevin Lon, the episode unpacks the “celebrity suspect” twist, creative storytelling, on-set stories, and how personal experiences of the writers influence the show’s charm and authenticity. The episode is especially rich in stories from the writers’ room, character insights, and the intersection of comedy, mystery, and romance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Recapping the Mystery So Far

[01:15 - 03:56]

• The hosts debate the shifting pool of suspects: Sting has moved to the "back burner," but red herrings abound.
  • Quote: “Well, I think it’s those red herring things, you know... is he not [a suspect]?” — Kevin Lon (01:30)
• Renewed focus on the mysterious “tie dye guy,” whose hoodie-wearing presence is confirmed as he follows Mabel; speculation intensifies.
• Tina Fey’s Cinda Canning is now hosting "Only Murderers in the Building" in the timeline, hinting at meta-layers and future narrative twists.

Guest Introductions & Writing Process

[04:03 - 12:07]

• Kristen Newman shares her TV background, including writing for “The Muppets” and working with Dan Fogelman.
  • Quote: “I got to operate a Muppet under Jack White for 12 hours, which I would do forever.” — Kristen Newman (05:48)
• Describes the “Zoom Room” dynamic—most writers had not met in person due to the pandemic.
• The writers' room as an “escape hatch” during dark times (June 2020, George Floyd protests, pandemic isolation).
  • Quote: “We would come together... and laugh for five or six hours a day. We all thought of it as such a respite... to escape.” — Kristen Newman (07:41)
• Amy Ryan reflects on the surreal joy of joining a New York comedy with Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez.
  • Quote: “The fact that... it's with Steve Martin and Martin short and the luminous Selena Gomez... was all beyond my wildest dreams.” — Amy Ryan (07:12)

How Episodes—and Sting—Came Together

[12:07 - 17:09]

• Episode titles often relate directly to special guests—“The Sting” was originally titled “Beyoncé” before landing the musician Sting as a guest.
  • Quote: “You may be surprised to hear that it was not a coincidence... the episode was originally called Beyoncé.” — Kristen Newman (13:11, 13:19)
• Kristen had the surreal experience of writing lyrics for Sting to sing—on purpose, “bad on purpose.”
• Tina Fey’s portrayal of Cinda Canning affectionately lampoons true crime podcast hosts (à la Sarah Koenig of Serial).
  • Fun fact: Steve Martin’s wife plays an assistant in the episode (15:19).

Character & Plot: Weaving Heart and Mystery

[17:09 - 18:36]

• Kristen explains the balance between emotional story and the mechanics of the mystery, focusing on giving each character personal stakes and obstacles.
  • Quote: “It always comes back to: what do we want to see for these characters emotionally?” — Kristen Newman (17:09)
• The show leans into the awkwardness of Charles’ (Steve Martin) social anxiety—directly inspired by Kristen’s own husband’s “anxiety nosebleeds.”
  • Quote: “That is very inspired by Rob Wright, my husband.” — Kristen Newman (18:28)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Real-Life Influences on the Script

[19:16 - 20:24]

• The generational comedy of outdated flirting—Marty’s “slacks” remark—was taken wholesale from Kristen Newman’s actual father-in-law.
  • Quote: “If I told a secretary she looked pretty in a pair of slacks, would that be OK? That literally came out of my darling father-in-law’s mouth.” — Kristen Newman (20:24)

The Sharing of Stories: A Theme

[20:38 - 21:03]

• Jan (Amy Ryan) tells Charles, “When someone gives you a story, you owe them one of equal or greater value in return.”
  • Quote: “I think Jan is right on the money, but I would never have the guts to say that to somebody.” — Amy Ryan (20:50)

Character Choices: The Bassoon

[22:43 - 23:25]

• The selection of the bassoon for Jan’s instrument is “mysterious” for now, but will be explained by writer Madeline George in Episode 6.
• Inside joke: There’s extensive “sexy bassoon” merchandise online, some of which ended up as wardrobe (“the only thing sexier than a bassoon is me with a bassoon”).
  • Quote: “There’s a particular weird thing that goes on with sexuality and bassoon players.” — Kristen Newman (24:43)

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Behind-the-Scenes & Production Tidbits

Shooting Logistics During Covid

[14:06 - 14:47]

• Writers couldn’t be on set; Kristen watched live feeds on her phone in her car, juggling real life and TV magic remotely.
  • Quote: “I could just sit there in my car... and watch Tina Fey and Steve Martin and Martin Short and Selena Gomez just chat.” — Kristen Newman (14:06)

Filming the Courtyard Duet

[29:30 - 30:53]

• Amy Ryan learned to mimic the bassoon with help from a real music teacher; Steve Martin actually played concertina.
• The serenade scene was shot separately—Amy looked out at a green screen, not at Steve directly.

The Surreal and the Meta

[31:30 - 32:08]

• Bugs Bunny and Porky Pig costumes are background characters haunting Charles—a result of licensing changes (originally Chip & Dale).
  • Quote: “It turned into Bugs and Pork... Warner Brothers is like, yeah, sure.” — Kristen Newman (32:02)

Crafting Tone: Comedy, Mystery, Heart

[33:10 - 33:55]

• Internal “friendly battle” constantly rages over balancing the show’s comedic, emotional, and mystery elements.
  • Quote: “There’s always the people going, ‘no, make it funnier’... ‘let’s make it twistier’... the people who love the emotional moments. It’s always a little bit of an internal, friendly battle.” — Kristen Newman (33:54)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:15] – Recap of episode 4 and emerging suspects
• [04:03] – Kristen Newman's background & writing process
• [07:41] – Making art for escape during dark times (Covid, protests)
• [13:11] – How the episode went from “Beyoncé” to “The Sting”
• [14:47] – Tina Fey’s casting and performance
• [20:38] – The transactional nature of sharing stories (“you owe them one in return,” Amy Ryan)
• [24:43] – Sexy bassoonist in-joke and merchandise
• [29:30] – Behind filming the musical courtyard scene
• [31:30] – The evolution of surreal background characters
• [33:10] – Balancing tone: Comedy, mystery, and heart
• [34:13] – Advice for aspiring writers
• [35:11] – Teaser: Tie dye guy “will be dangerous in more ways than one”
• [37:05] – Hosts’ murder predictions (“who done it” segment)

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Notable Quotes with Attributions

• “I’m so sorry. It would not have been like, so [a coincidence]. This was preplanned.” — Kristen Newman [13:16]
• “I think Jan is right on the money, but I would never have the guts to say that to somebody.” — Amy Ryan [20:50]
• “There’s a particular weird thing that goes on with sexuality and bassoon players. I don’t know what’s going on with them.” — Kristen Newman [24:43]
• “We all thought of [the writers' room] as such a respite and a place to escape.” — Kristen Newman [07:41]
• “Red herrings... just sit patiently.” — Amy Ryan [35:48]
• “There’s always a little bit of an internal, friendly battle over those different moments.” — Kristen Newman [33:54]

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Who-Done-It Theories

[36:54 - End]

• The hosts’ murder predictions are sealed and revealed:
  • Kevin: Teddy’s son (Nathan Lane’s son)
  • Elizabeth: Poppy, Cinda Canning’s assistant (“dark horse”)

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Final Takeaways

This episode beautifully illustrates how Only Murders in the Building blends comedy, drama, and mystery, borrowing poignancy and awkwardness from real life. Creative constraints (like Covid) fueled innovation, while a love of character and attention to emotional nuance elevated the “whodunnit” beyond mere genre.

The highlight—whether it’s “sexy” bassoon swag, Tina Fey’s deadpan meta-jokes, or personal vignettes about courtside serenades—lies in the warmth, wit, and camaraderie of everyone behind the show.

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Cliffhanger for Next Week:
Kristen teases, “Tie dye guy will be dangerous in more ways than one.”
Amy Ryan cryptically adds that some clues might be deliberate misdirection—red herrings abound.

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Useful for:
Fans of the show craving Easter eggs, behind-the-scenes lore, and aspiring writers seeking insight on collaborative, heartfelt TV writing.

Transcript

[Kristen Newman]

Straw Hut Media.

[Amy Ryan]

You have snacks?

[Elizabeth Keener]

We do.

[Kevin Lon]

You know I'll come. Okay.

[Kristen Newman]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We'll put you down.

[Kevin Lon]

Would you like a plus one?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Welcome to Only Murders in the Pod. Who are we? We're a couple of true crime aficionados, not unlike Charles, Oliver and Mabel, the three main characters in Hulu's newest show, Only Murders in the Building. We're making a podcast about a show where the characters make their own podcast about a murder. It's a wild world. Why are we here? To solve a murder. And to try to figure it out before all is revealed in the season finale. We may not be in the Arconia ourselves, but we will get some inside information from some of the cast and crew and maybe even. Even a few clues. As of now, we've seen the first four episodes, so listeners, beware. If you haven't watched, hit the pause button, get caught up and come right back so we don't spoil anything for you. So, Keener.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We've had four episodes now to figure this out. What do we know?

[Kevin Lon]

Well, I first, I know a lot more than you, but I'm just saying that in general. Well, first Sting is no longer a suspect.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We know that, but is he not?

[Kevin Lon]

Well, you know, I think it's those red herring things, you know, it's. He, you know, don't stand so close to me. And he's singing. And then he even says in this one where it is my fault. But then he thought he made him commit suicide, you know, so we can

[Elizabeth Keener]

put him on the back burner. But I'm not taking him off the stove.

[Kevin Lon]

No. And he's hot back there. I mean, he's hot in general, but. Okay, what else do we know?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, we know that Charles mentions the tie dye guy again. But only us viewers and Charles believe in the tie dye guy. The others don't. And we see at the end of this episode, the tie dye guy is following Mabel. So he is real or she.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes. There you go.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's a hoodie.

[Kevin Lon]

It's a hoodie. So we don't know.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And also remember at the very beginning of episode one, in the opening scene where Mabel is lying over the body covered in blood, that's the tie dye guy in the hoodie.

[Kevin Lon]

What?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I remember the murder. I mean, not. I don't know if I didn't even

[Elizabeth Keener]

know the very beginning.

[Kevin Lon]

She said, it's not what you think.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Correct.

[Kevin Lon]

But it was the tie dye guy.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's the tie dye guy. Go back and watch it again.

[Kevin Lon]

I gotta go back and watch it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Also, in this episode, there's a lot going on. Tina Fey's character, the queen of podcasts, she's doing a new show. So this is two months from now or a few months from now? A few months from now, she's doing a new podcast called Only Murderers. Yes, murderers, plural, in the building. Do you think she's referring to Mabel or what's the deal with that?

[Kevin Lon]

I don't know. I mean, I think she thinks it's thin them. Maybe she think she's going to follow them and see who it might be. Very exciting.

[Elizabeth Keener]

There's a lot going on.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, God, there's so many. But Mabel's gambit is up. Everyone knows she knew Tim Kono, Correct?

[Amy Ryan]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And because Oliver's son, who's the vet who was taking care of the dog who was poisoned, he knew the Hardy Boy gang, Right. And he says she's like, bad news, bad news.

[Kevin Lon]

He knew all of that. You know, it's. It's interesting because you watch him, they're all about the same age, and. And you go, oh, they all grew up in the Arconia. And we're learning that. We're learning who grew up in the Arconia.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And did he want to be part of the Hardy Boys and they excluded him. Is he getting revenge on them now?

[Kevin Lon]

He's getting revenge by being a.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Is he involved in something?

[Kevin Lon]

Being a vet and building a deck and making a lot of money. So there's the revenge, right?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Exactly. I guess that catches us up with the episode number four.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes, we are caught up. One, two, three, and four.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Today we have two guests. Kristin Newman, the writer of the episode, and Amy Ryan, who plays Charles love interest, the sexy bassoonist neighbor, Jan. Hello.

[Kevin Lon]

Hey.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Good morning.

[Kevin Lon]

Good morning, sunshine.

[Elizabeth Keener]

This is Kristen Newman, travel writer and TV writer producer, who before Only Murders, wrote on tons of other great shows like How I Met yout Mother, Galavant, the neighbors and that 70s show.

[Kristen Newman]

I tell everybody everything. I am a spoiler. I am terrible. So I'm like, john, I don't know if I should be doing this. What are you doing?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Excellent. I was checking out your credits, and I saw that you were a writer on the Muppets. And this is the adult version of the Muppets, not your children's Muppets. It was on ABC about five years ago, and I watched every episode, and I loved it. I was just wondering, for that show, was it as fun to write on as it was to watch?

[Kristen Newman]

Yes, it was incredible. I came in halfway through so it was a little bit of a mess in terms of logistics. And, you know, we had. I came in and there were no scripts or outlines or anything, and they wanted to kind of revamp the show. So basically, right after the Mindy Kaling episode, I came in to try to make. Yeah. Try to do some stuff. So it was crazy. But the actual getting to. Literally, first day of work, I came in and I had to write a piggy and Kermit Romance Christmas, you know, and I had a different job in the morning, and then it was, like, noon, and I was doing that, and that was amazing. And I got to do things like have Willie Nelson come and sing on the road again with them and meet my dad, who just passed away. And I, like, we used to go to Willie Nelson together. And so that was amazing. And I got to operate a Muppet under Jack White for 12 hours, which

[Kevin Lon]

I would do forever, you know. How'd you end up in this room? I know we know it was the Zoom room, but how'd you end up in this writer's room?

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah, well, I'd worked twice before for Dan Fogelman, who's the EP on this show, and he did a show that I did with him called the Neighbors for two seasons on ABC that was about aliens that was also ridiculous. And then a show after that called Gallivant, which was a musical that was very good comedy. It was amazing. And Alan Menken did the music, and he came into the writers room and played I Want to Be where the People Are, and I cried, and that was great. And then, so Dan called me up when this happened, and I feel so lucky. And then John Hoffman is the greatest. Our showrunner, and like a beam of sunshine in it all.

[Amy Ryan]

It really.

[Kristen Newman]

I mean, I think there was definitely a no. A hole policy that manifested. There was no, you know, one problem child in a room. You know, in the writers room or on set can kind of change everything. And everybody was just the most delightful. I mean, and it starts with Steven, Marty, and Selena.

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, yeah. I mean, this show is like a checklist of every.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right.

[Amy Ryan]

Dream.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You know, That's Amy Ryan. You might recognize her from the Wire or the Office or any one of the other million things she's been in. She lives in New York herself.

[Amy Ryan]

And so whenever I get to work and go home is such a dream. But I wanted for a long time to find a comedy again, and the fact that it was in New York, and then, you know, I can't even wrap my head around that. It was, you know, it's with Steve Martin and Martin short and the luminous Selena Gomez. I mean, it's. That was all beyond my wildest dreams. So this was just a dream job.

[Kristen Newman]

They're just the loveliest, most professional, respectful, kind, like, hardworking, amazing people. And so everybody else has to behave under that, which is great. And it's the same with John Hoffman. He's just all sunshine. And we started in the writers room, you know, early June 2020, in the darkest, darkest days. Right. It was also the week of the George Floyd protest that started. And it was sort of. I remember I'm in Santa Monica and I looked up and ospreys were over my head and there were tanks in our streets. And then three months later, everything started to burn in California. And it was just dark times. And we would come together and writers on both coasts and laugh for five or six hours a day. And it was just. I think we all thought of it as such a respite and a place to escape to this room of boxes on a screen. And we really tried to completely ignore the ugliness of the world in terms of having it on screen, because we wanted it to be escapist. But in terms of the loneliness and how much everybody was isolated and in their own little boxes at home, especially in New York, everybody was just, you know, no air. They had no air and they had no people and they had no contact for so long. So. And we felt like that was really reflected in the loneliness of everybody in this particular building, even though we ignored Covid. And like, in my episode, you saw the musical moment between Steve and Amy Ryan when they meet with the instruments through the window echoing. And that was super inspired by all of that early Italy, you know, people singing opera out the windows to everybody alone in their rooms in the cobbles alleys, you know, so it reflected in the show, but we tried to make it a place to escape to.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Could you tell us just a little bit how the writers room worked? So it sounds like most of it was over zoom as far as, like, breaking the stories and developing the characters and who does which episode.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah, it was entirely over zoom. Most of us have never met in person, but it's slowly starting to happen, you know, in a backyard. Two or three times we've met in person now, which is exciting. And we finally. The writers got to. To get together with Steven, Marty and Mabel in John's backyard a month ago, which was truly a probably life highlight. And Steve and Marty just did the routine. They just told stories for four hours about nureyev and Jackie O and three amigos and all of it. Chevy Chase, all of it. All the stories you want to hear. And Selena was lovely and just mostly listening to them, just like the rest of us.

[Elizabeth Keener]

In case you don't know, Selena Gomez has zillions of social media followers as of right now. She has 33.4 million on TikTok and 259 million on Instagram.

[Kristen Newman]

And she made a quick little video of the two of them. Should. Should people watch the show? And they went post and Steve was like, sometimes people ask me before they post videos. And she's like, it'll be fine.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Look, he needs warming up time. Keep going.

[Kristen Newman]

Steve, Steve, Steve, should people watch our show? Steve, should people watch our show? Just say yes, please. I believe that's a personal choice. And it had 11,000 views in real time by the end of the night. It was in the hundreds of thousands. It was incredible to watch that happen in real time too. But anyway, so we mostly never met in person. And the process of the room is a very. I talk about how when you're like making a garden, you have to, like, do a lot of digging up weeds and turning over the earth and maybe fertilizing, maybe putting in some banana peels, letting those decompose for a while and then just so that when you put the seed in, it will grow. We have months of that time, months and months of that part where we have to talk about the whole season and everybody's emotional arcs and what the total mystery is before we can even break episode one. So the episodes get broken late Sometimes in a show, you could break 10 episodes in six weeks. That is not what happens here.

[Kevin Lon]

So going back to how you got this particular episode, is it. How do the numbers work? How does it go? You get three, you get five. I mean, how does that work?

[Kristen Newman]

There's a few things going on. Sometimes, you know, there's writers with different levels of experience in the room. So often you kind of try to break up the writers with a lot of experience in terms of who writes which episode, because you disappear for a week or so, you know, a couple of times when you're off on outline or script or doing rewrites and. And so they want to kind of not have all of the high level writers out of the room at the same time. So there's people to run the little rooms and mini rooms. Sometimes we split up into two virtual rooms to work. So that happens sometimes. Sometimes there's something like, oh, I feel like you would really resonate with this particular character who's getting a big story this episode. But usually it's just kind of. Kind of. I don't know what it is. It's kind of at the show owner's whim.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, the title of your episode, episode number four is called the Sting. Is it a coincidence that Sting happened to be in this episode?

[Kristen Newman]

You may be surprised to hear that it was not a coincidence.

[Elizabeth Keener]

What?

[Kristen Newman]

I'm so sorry. It would not have been like, so

[Elizabeth Keener]

this was pre planned.

[Kristen Newman]

I mean, actually, the episode was originally called Beyonce.

[Kevin Lon]

Then Sting showed up.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So you knew you were going to be writing for Sting. That must be like, where do you even begin to crazy.

[Kristen Newman]

And Tina Fey in this episode. I know. And Amy Ryan. I mean, it was bananas. It was just bananas. And I even got to write Sting's bad song. Like, I got to write lyrics for Sting.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And then Oliver says, that probably won't be in your festive album.

[Kristen Newman]

The only way I was able to do that was that the song had to be bad. I would have absolutely been completely like, I'm not gonna. No way.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And he was game to do it

[Kristen Newman]

supposed to be any good.

[Kevin Lon]

What did he say when he looked at those lyrics and was had to sing those? Did he?

[Kristen Newman]

I don't know. Because we couldn't go to set Covid. It was terrible. We did have these feeds on our phone where we could watch this. We could watch the stage live, even between takes, so we could watch them talking in between takes. And so I could just sit there in my car while I waited to pick up my daughter at preschool and watch Tina Fey and Steve Martin and Martin Short and Selena Gomez just chat. Oh, my God, that was great. Yeah. So I got to watch Sting just, like, play his guitar for the. For the hell of it in between takes. You know, I got to watch that happen from my phone, mostly. And Tina Fey. I mean, getting to watch Tina Fey make me laugh with one of my own jokes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

With a career highlight, Tina Fey plays the host of our protagonist's favorite true crime podcast, all is not okay in Oklahoma. Her character's name is Cinda Canning, which we noticed is suspiciously similar to serial host Sarah Koenig.

[Kristen Newman]

She does such a good job of skewering the NPR seriousness of it all. The voice. Yeah, all of the people who look like her.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh.

[Kristen Newman]

A little fun fact. I don't know if you know this, but. So she has her assistant Poppy, right. Who's got her glasses and her little brown hair.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes.

[Kristen Newman]

Then behind her also is a second assistant who comes in and says, you have a phone call. That is Steve Martin's wife.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, she plays like Cindy.

[Kristen Newman]

She looks exactly like Tina Fey.

[Kevin Lon]

Exactly, yeah. She's Cinda. She's Cindy. It was just like, oh, that's Steve Martin's wife. That they were amazing.

[Kristen Newman]

She didn't want to do it. She's not an actress. But Steve's like, you have to. Because she looks exactly like Tina. All these wannabes around her.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And so John Hoffman and Steve Martin, it's kind their brainchild. What was it? What did it feel like to adapt your voice into that story that they created?

[Kristen Newman]

Well, it's kind of the gig, right? We're kind of all mimics, TV writers. If it's not your show, you're coming in and needing to hear the voices that have been created by somebody else and write in those voices. And so that's kind of the job a little bit. It's always just effortless when it's people, you know, the voices of. I started out on that 70s show. I was there for seven years and. And you know, you could just. It was almost like you weren't even writing it because in the same way that if you were walking around and somebody said something and you would go, oh, I know exactly what my mom would say right now. Or, oh, I know exactly what my boyfriend would say right now. If you were here, you get to know the characters so well and their voices are in your head and you're like, well, Red is clearly going to say exactly this. Like, he almost just speaks through you. And with Steve and Marty and Selena, we all know them so well. I grew up, I think 90% of the movies I watched on the couch with my dad, Steve Horn movies, and they're just. They're so inherently in you that you don't even need to learn it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So a mystery is so plot driven, but this is also very character. It's a very character driven show. This episode specifically. What's it like to balance those two in the writing process?

[Kristen Newman]

It's very hard. And that's why it takes so many months to get to episode one usually. And Dan Fogelman, as you know, he's got a big heart. He's all heart, leads with the heart. And so it always kind of starts with the emotional story and the character story. And I think Deanna and I fell in love creatively because we like a, like aw at the end that comes back to something at the beginning and resonates in some way and has some sort of. Here's what this story was really told for moment. So we always start with that and kind of bounce back and forth between the mystery and the emotional stories. And it always, you know, the investigative beats always come from what do we want to see? So Steve Martin's character is really shut down and afraid of talking to his neighbors and socially anxious. So where can we send him? You know, just having him knock on doors. Episode three. And I think four, maybe early on they were going to multiple doors versus going to just Howard Morrison three and really just stinging four. And it kind of came from what's the hardest thing for Charles Hayden Savage to do? And it would just be knocking on his neighbor's doors and saying hello. Just that part. Let alone is this a murderer and how do I get the answers?

[Elizabeth Keener]

And possibly having a nosebleed.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah. Which by the way, is my, my husband has anxiety nosebleeds. So that is very inspired by Rob Wright, my husband.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we'll learn what other aspects of writer Kristen Newman. Newman's personal experience found their way into the writers room. Plus, a peek into the weird world of bassoon players. Welcome back. Before the break, we had a quick recap of the major plot points in episode four. And we met writer Kristen Newman and actress Amy Ryan, who plays Jan. Kristen's husband in real life suffers from anxiety nosebleeds, just like Steve Martin's character Charles. But that isn't the only part of Kristen's personal life that made it into the show.

[Amy Ryan]

Yeah.

[Kristen Newman]

Another one is in the scene in episode four when Marty and Mabel are giving Steve advice about his date, which was one of my favorite scenes of the season, when Steve is asking if it's okay to flirt still. And Marty says, I don't know. You know, these days I don't even know if I can tell the secretary that she looks pretty in a pair of slacks. It was like, nope, no to all of the things you just said, all the words wrong. Was very inspired by my wonderful, lovely 85 year old father in law who's always, he really wants to just kind of try to dig in to really understand better how the world is changing and what's going on and why is this. And you know, if a lady is wearing a short skirt and stilettos, isn't she hoping that you'll notice and tell her that she looks great? Like, wouldn't she be sad if she went out trying to look great and nobody said your legs are amazing? Literally, the words, if I told a secretary she looked Pretty in a pair of slacks. Would that be okay? That literally came out of my darling father in law's mouth.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Charles ends up screwing up the date with Jan anyway. After she bares her soul about her dysfunctional family, Charles clams up and leaves her hanging. So Jan calls him out. She says the sharing of stories is sort of transactional.

[Amy Ryan]

When someone gives you a story, you owe them one of equal or greater value in return. I think Jan is right on the money, but I would never have the guts to say that to somebody.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's Amy Ryan.

[Amy Ryan]

That would be the thing. I would secretly hope what I share is only going to inspire them to do the same. But I don't think I would be so bold as to offer constructive criticism.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You wouldn't leave the restaurant?

[Amy Ryan]

I take out my little mental black book and, you know, Mark. Mark strikes down.

[Kevin Lon]

But no second date.

[Kristen Newman]

You're done.

[Amy Ryan]

Exactly.

[Kevin Lon]

So another thing. Through Jan's character, we learned that you know more about Charles. He opens up to you finally so he can get that, you know, that important second date or the second chance, which is a really important theme in this show, is that your Persona. Do people. Do people open up to you? Do people feel comfortable around you?

[Amy Ryan]

I hope that would be true. I mean, sometimes I can come off as really shy and, you know, depending on the situation, and then people think, you know, that's a form of being aloof and not shy. But, yeah, I like to. I hope to believe that. That people are comfortable around me.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, we're comfortable around you. Yeah.

[Kevin Lon]

We feel the need to share right now. Woof. Woof. That was so good. You're woof. It was so amazing. Was that written, but then you said it your own way, or did you pick that word? Or was it wolf?

[Amy Ryan]

Was scripted.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It was scripted.

[Amy Ryan]

Great writers. I did throw it in another scene, though. Actually. I asked if we could bring it back full circle. After he shares and he comes to the door, I said, let's throw, you know, can we put another wolf in there? So they were very open to that.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But.

[Kristen Newman]

But I'm telling you this because I like you and I would like a second date.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Woof.

[Amy Ryan]

That was a lot.

[Kristen Newman]

Woof.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Woof. Dan as a character is kind of sexy, kind of goofy, and very intense. And it's honestly a little weird that she plays the bassoon of all things. So we asked Kristen if there was something important about that instrument in particular.

[Kristen Newman]

There is a reason, and I will leave it mysterious.

[Amy Ryan]

Excellent.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I'm putting people.

[Kevin Lon]

People listen to that.

[Kristen Newman]

We will play when you get to episode six. You'll interview Madeline George and Kim Rosenstock, perhaps the writers of it. Madeline George had a personal story involving the bassoon. If you want to ask her that story, she's a wonderful award winning playwright in New York and she might tell you.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, okay. I'm making a note of that. Following up on that. There are three different songs that we hear them serenading. Are those song choices for any specific reason? Were there other songs that you guys thought about that didn't make the cut?

[Kristen Newman]

They, I believe, were all free songs.

[Kevin Lon]

Always the start.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's a good place to start.

[Kristen Newman]

That was not the motivating factor for most of our creative decisions.

[Kevin Lon]

As you can see from the Happy birthday, Selena Gomez. Free.

[Elizabeth Keener]

No.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kevin Lon]

No, nothing.

[Kristen Newman]

Nothing on the show was free. Except maybe the songs I think we had. At one point I had hello, you know, is it me you're looking for in there?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Kevin Lon]

That's a great one.

[Kristen Newman]

That was good. Oh, I think that we kept in. If you want my body on. You think that, right? That was. That was original. But a couple of the old tiny ones were public domain and free.

[Amy Ryan]

I love that.

[Kevin Lon]

If you want.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Check the boxes.

[Kevin Lon]

I love that. If you want my body. Because that's so. You know, it's from afar and starting.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Very flirtatious.

[Kevin Lon]

Very flirtatious.

[Kristen Newman]

He's very sexy. We always thought it was very funny. There is a bizarre amount. It turns out if you Google bassoon and sexy on Amazon, you will find so much existing swag.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Swag. Like that T shirt Jan is wearing in the elevator scene, the one that says the only thing sexier than a bassoon is me with a bassoon. Amy Ryan wouldn't necessarily wear that exact shirt, but she does have something just as sexy.

[Amy Ryan]

Okay, here's what I do have in my closet. My mom was a huge Tom Selleck fan. And back in, like the Magnum PI Day, she got at a fair, one of those airbrush painted sweatshirts with his face.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, my God.

[Amy Ryan]

And she wore it every day.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She wore it.

[Kevin Lon]

It's beautiful.

[Amy Ryan]

I now own that sweatshirt. I took it out of her closet. So that's about. That's the sexiest look I have going in my wardrobe.

[Kevin Lon]

And when do you pull that out?

[Amy Ryan]

Just when life feels a little heavy. Put a little Tom Selleck on my shirt. My chastener. The world is brighter.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But back to the actual shirt Jan

[Kristen Newman]

wore in that scene that exists on Amazon. I bought. I wish I went to sexy, but I'm a bassoonist. So I can't help it. I bought those mugs for everybody. It's very. There's a particular weird thing that goes on with sexuality and bassoon players. I don't know what's going on with them. They're a little weird. They're a little weird. And so. And the story that Madeline George might tell you kind of was in that space. And so we're like, she's going to be really overly sexual because that's also going to make Charles feel super uncomfortable, his character.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We're going to take another quick break. And when we come back, what was it like to shoot that beautiful Courtyard duet? And how did they find all those Tina Fey lookalikes? Welcome back. Before the break, we learned that there might be more to know about why Amy Ryan's character Jan plays the bassoon, and that there's a surprising amount of sexy bassoonist merch available on the Internet. Throughout Only Murders in the Building, a lot of the plot moves along through conversations in the elevator. And Amy Ryan, a New Yorker herself, has an intimate relationship with the elevator in her building.

[Amy Ryan]

Well, I live in a building that

[Kristen Newman]

has

[Amy Ryan]

a manual run elevator and its serial number is number three. It's one of the oldest elevators in. So I love our elevator. It's quite beautiful. I feel like I'm going on a little transportive trip every time I get in there. And I do talk to my doorman a lot.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And we understand that you went to the New York City High School of the Performing Arts. Is that the same high school as Fame?

[Amy Ryan]

It is.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It is the same one. Did you have any famous classmates back then?

[Amy Ryan]

My classmates. Seth Gilliam is a classmate I was also on the wire with, who also now is one of the stars of the Walking Dead. And then the class below us, our very famous classmate, Jennifer Aniston.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I've heard of her.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

With the mix of crowdedness and isolation, the city of New York itself is almost like its own character.

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, yeah. I think the show really captures that beautifully and that you can be alone or you can be lonely but not alone in New York. And I feel like the show captures that with every character, no matter how brief we meet them or we are all alone in this city, and yet we're not. Right? I mean, we can. We can walk down the street, be entertained by each other.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Filming for Only murders started in December 2020. And for Amy and a lot of the cast and crew, this show was a big change from their early pandemic lives.

[Amy Ryan]

Only Murders in the Building was The first job back and it was, you know, it was strange to go from only being with two members of my family to an entire cast and crew. So I didn't have that, that, you know, project where it was just halted in the middle and everybody home. But it was definitely odd filming during the pandemic, that's for sure.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So this episode also has a very beautiful scene where you and Charles, Steve Martin's character, have a serenade across the courtyard of the building. You're playing the bassoon and he is playing. Playing the concertina, which is kind of like an accordion. Could you play the bassoon at all or were you air bassooning?

[Amy Ryan]

I am not musical. So I reached out to the head of the music department at my daughter's school, and this wonderful woman, Jackie Henderson, took me on as a project and I said, look, I said,

[Kristen Newman]

you have to teach me the bassoon, but I'm

[Amy Ryan]

not gonna play in three weeks time. You have to help me look like I can do it. So she very generously recorded herself playing and I studied her hand movements and she taught me how to assemble it and, you know, deconstruct it, put it in its case and name all its parts and such. And I really enjoyed that. But no, it was really just mimicking when she took a breath and how her hands were moving up and down the keys.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Steve Martin, on the other hand, was definitely really playing the concertina. Kristen told us that at the cast and crew meet and greet, Steve Martin found a banjo and played a few songs for everyone.

[Amy Ryan]

Steve is incredibly musical.

[Kristen Newman]

I don't.

[Amy Ryan]

That's an instrument that he played before this show, but he clearly can kind of pick up anything.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Were you guys filming that at the same time? Were you guys seeing each other and doing a serenade?

[Amy Ryan]

No, I was looking out to a green screen.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It works.

[Kevin Lon]

It works.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So we have to know, did your character Jan hate Tim Kono? Because we noticed she was not at the building memorial for Tim.

[Amy Ryan]

Yeah, I don't know if I was cast yet. Then

[Elizabeth Keener]

we thought you were gonna say you were at orchestra rehearsal.

[Kevin Lon]

Your rehearsal first chair.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Because we were gonna call the conductor to verify that.

[Amy Ryan]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You probably noticed Bugs Bunny and Porky Pig following Charles throughout the episode.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah. So strange. There was definitely also a John Hoffman idea to have the odd characters from the. From the Family Cruise that were haunting him throughout.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's Kristen.

[Kristen Newman]

They started out as. Was it. Oh, I know. It was Chip and Dale. It was Chip and Dale.

[Amy Ryan]

Oh, they're ridiculous.

[Kristen Newman]

And then Disney, Disney licensing, there's Murder. There's sexy stuff. There's all that stuff. Those lawyers, those silly lawyers. So then it turned into bugs and pork.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, dirty, dirty bugs and porky.

[Kristen Newman]

Okay. They're allowed to be dirty. Warner Brothers is like, yeah, sure, yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Surreal moments have been written into all the episodes so far. The first episode showed Oliver bouncing back up the stairs, Mabel with the ring and Charles with his frying pan. The next episode gave us Mabel in conversation with her very dead friend. And the third episode took us into Oliver's mind with his on stage casting call for the murderer.

[Kristen Newman]

Also, it's just, you know, that we were in the building and that's why the sets are so expensive. That's why it's so beautiful. Is that for both Covid reasons and also for kind of the genre of the, you know, murder inside a building and you can't get out of it. We. It's pretty claustrophobic and we didn't want it to feel that way. We wanted it to feel like a gorgeous place you still want to come and feel. Feels a state that's. Even though you're actually in a building most of the time. And so I think those moments open it up from just these four walls in a good way.

[Elizabeth Keener]

There's murder and mystery, comedy and romance, generational commentary and a story about unexpected friendships.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah, it was. It's a Frankenstein of tones, right?

[Amy Ryan]

It sort of is.

[Kristen Newman]

We, I think when we started writing it, we were in a space of a Stephen Marty movie, you know,

[Kevin Lon]

and

[Kristen Newman]

it got, you know, that was the process too, of finding it, especially with Dan Fogelman and his. His love of an emotional speech that. Paring away kind of a lot of the comedy for the. For the emotional stuff and then the murder mystery that also needed to be in there and in the writers room and among Dan and John and really the actors, too, there's different levels of interest in those different pieces. And there's always the people going, no, make it funnier and the people going, let's make it twistier. And the people who love the emotional moments. So it's always a little bit of an internal, friendly battle over those different moments.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Keep the balance.

[Kevin Lon]

Keeping the balance.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah. Season two is much easier to write because we just know what it is now with the tone.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So I'm sure we have a lot of aspiring writers listening. Hopefully there's a lot of people listening. Do you have any advice for them?

[Kristen Newman]

Write all the time. If you're in la, you know, get an assistant job, get in a writer's room. That's like grad school. Getting to sit quietly and type while you watch what everybody does right and what they do wrong. Yeah, just. Just watching in a room. Writing a novel is very different than writing a TV show because it's verbal. So much of the work. And so the game of pitching and pitching on top of people's pitches and not shooting something down unless you have a better idea. If you pitch a joke and nobody laughs. Making a funny joke at your own expense and then everybody laughs and they walk away from the mom going, how funny she is.

[Kevin Lon]

Okay, so we would love. Can you give us some kind of clue that gives us something towards the end of the show? You know, we're trying to guess and we're trying to figure out who it might be.

[Kristen Newman]

Well, how about just a little something about episode five?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, we'll take it.

[Kristen Newman]

Okay. Which is. I will say that tie dye guy will be dangerous in more ways than one.

[Elizabeth Keener]

When we asked Amy Ryan for a clue, she made us question every clue we've had so far.

[Amy Ryan]

You know, we, you know, scenes that we filmed outside, you know, there's lots of paparazzi taking pictures of our show, and we just kept staging characters getting arrested and murdered. So just throw them off. So any clue you may be looking for out there could just be a plant by us.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Red herrings.

[Amy Ryan]

Just sit patiently.

[Kevin Lon]

We did ask John Hoffman. We did ask John Hoffman about red herrings, and he said there were many. Like, thanks a lot.

[Amy Ryan]

It's a very intricately woven, you know, piece of writing. So which is.

[Kevin Lon]

Which is fun.

[Amy Ryan]

They did their homework.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. They planted some seeds.

[Kevin Lon]

They really did. I mean, we keep saying, always starts with the writing, and then you get the amazing cast, and everything just kind of comes together beautifully. Yeah. So that's exciting. So we just want to thank you so much. We're done. See, this is simple and painful. Painful for Kevin, but yeah. Thank you. And we just want to end by. By saying we. We hope to see you, but sooner or later.

[Amy Ryan]

Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

Amy, thank you so much. This was really fun. We really appreciate it a lot. Thank you.

[Amy Ryan]

My pleasure. Thank you.

[Kevin Lon]

Okay, Kevin.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

Are you ready for this part? One of my favorite.

[Elizabeth Keener]

My favorite part of this episode, who Done It?

[Kevin Lon]

Summit.

[Elizabeth Keener]

This is where we write down our predictions of who we think the murderer is up until this point, based on what we've seen.

[Amy Ryan]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And we sealed in an envelope.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes. And let me just clarify, up until this point, you have made the obvious choices.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, we'll see how that pans out.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes, we will.

[Elizabeth Keener]

All right, I will Open yours first.

[Kevin Lon]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You put Teddy's son. Nathan Lane's son. So that is the deli owner who is going to finance the podcast for the group. Right.

[Kevin Lon]

And his son. Now, we only met him, I believe, the one time, but now this is my second time that I feel it's

[Elizabeth Keener]

him the second time.

[Kevin Lon]

Remember that I said in episode three, at the end of episode three, I said, I think it's him. So I've said this twice now. So let's see now what you. If you still.

[Amy Ryan]

If you think it's.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Here we go.

[Kevin Lon]

There we go. Episode four. Poppy, Cinda's assistant.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, yes. She's the one sitting on the couch

[Kevin Lon]

with the laptop and she really cuts on.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And Tina Fey gives her a little shade.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So I think she's going to take the story and run with it. Or maybe she's the. Well, she's the murderer, I think to create her own podcast and take over.

[Kevin Lon]

Ooh, that's pretty.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So it's a dark horse prediction.

[Kevin Lon]

Dark horse. It is a dark horse. Very, very. But I really like it. Only because it's, like, not obvious. Not obvious. How did this happen? You took a turn. You wanted to go left and you went right. I'm impressed.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I'm keeping you on your toes. Thanks for listening to our fourth episode of Only Murders in the Pod, the fan pod for Hulu's original Only Murders in the Building. If you liked it and what's not to like? Make sure to share with your friends, rate it and subscribe or follow as the kids call it Now.

[Kevin Lon]

Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. The show is hosted by Elizabeth Keener Me and Kevin Lon Me, produced by Ryan Tillotson, Maggie Bowles and William Sterling. Associate producer is Stephen Markley, music by Kyle Merritt, and big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Ari Abishe, and the entire Hulu team.

[Elizabeth Keener]

See you next week again from Keener's Closet.

[Kevin Lon]

Bye.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Bye.