S1 E8: Fan Fiction

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S1 E8: “Fan Fiction” (Aired October 6, 2021)

Host: Kevin Lon & Elizabeth Keener
Guests: Writers Rob Terboski & Matteo Borghese, Actor Da'Vine Joy Randolph
Main Theme:
A deep-dive into episode 8, “Fan Fiction,” exploring podcast superfans, the evolving murder mystery, and behind-the-scenes insights with cast and writing team – all centered on the infectious obsession the show-and real-life Only Murders podcast-inspires.

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Overview of the Episode

• Episode 8 ("Fan Fiction") heightens the stakes for our Arconia trio, bringing their own podcast’s superfans, "the Arconiacs," into the action as they race to wrap up their story.
• Writers Rob Terboski and Matteo Borghese discuss how they blend comedy and mystery, the challenge of writing for such a complex show, and the joys/pains of tracking every floor in the Arconia.
• Da’Vine Joy Randolph reflects on Detective Williams and her NY grit, true crime aversion, and working alongside show legends.
• The hosts, joined by the guests, enthusiastically theorize about potential killers, hidden details, the roles of superfans, and fan theories.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recap of Episode 8 (00:37–04:42)

• Teddy threatens the trio, forcing them to end the podcast by 7am — a true “dead line.”
• The podcast has spawned a devoted fanbase, the “Arconiacs,” who get directly involved in the story.
  • Elizabeth Keener: “What a great name. I love that.” (01:51)
• Jan and Charles discover that Tim was investigating Theo Demas, tying into the grave-robbing subplot.
• New evidence reveals Tim was poisoned before being shot, and Teddy/Theo have airtight alibis for the shooting.
• Group assembles to record a final podcast, with Jan, Oscar, and three (of four) Arconiacs helping.
• Suspicion shifts: Jan tries to redirect attention to Howard the cat guy.
• Shocking turn: Jan is attacked and possibly dead, a note with “I’m watching you” left on her door.

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2. The Writers’ Room: Balancing Comedy, Mystery & Structure (05:05–08:32)

• Writers Rob Terboski and Matteo Borghese were brought in as a duo, accustomed to comedy but found Only Murders a unique challenge:
  • Matteo Borghese: “Tonally, it’s a lot different… There’s a shift in tone... We’re supposed to buy in on the mystery. It’s not just a straight comedy.” (07:27)
  • Rob Terboski: “There’s this melancholy sort of thing… it has depth and texture… a really fun challenge.” (08:00)
• Writing for intricate plotlines, large ensemble scenes, and layers of story is both “painstaking” and “fun.”

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3. True Crime & Podcast Fandom (08:32–10:41)

• Matteo’s background: Former true crime researcher at CourtTV, daily scouring news for bizarre crimes (08:39).
• Rob’s background: More familiar with comedy and “My Favorite Murder,” but both writers love the genre’s twists.
• Da’Vine Joy Randolph (Detective Williams) admits to being “freaked out” by true crime and scary stories:
  • Da’Vine Joy Randolph: “They freak me out. I don’t watch scary movies and I definitely don’t when it’s based on true events. No, turn it off.” (10:15)

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4. Getting the Job & Writing for Icons (10:52–14:30)

• Breaking into Only Murders involved “pleading and begging,” even putting a Steve Martin poster on camera:
  • Rob Terboski: “If you’re an aspiring writer… just make a mess of yourself in a meeting. Cry, beg, barter…” (12:04)
• Their first scene for the show was an audition “side” to land Nathan Lane (Teddy Demas), writing villainous monologues for actors to stretch out (13:10–13:46).
• Crafting big group scenes, ensuring every character has something “funny or interesting to do,” is especially challenging (14:15).

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5. Episode 8’s Core Themes: Fan Obsession—Both Real & Fictional (15:35–16:53)

• The Arconiacs parallel the main trio, reflecting the audience’s obsession and speculation.
  • Matteo Borghese: “They are those superfans. They are kind of where our trio started out... it was just fun to go back and revisit that.”
• Intentional nerdiness: Even the whereabouts of minor characters (e.g., “Grant had piano lessons”) gets fans theorizing.

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6. Detective Williams: Evolution, Perspective & Realism (18:28–23:50)

• Writers wanted the audience to be drawn along as Detective Williams shifts from “firm non-believer” in podcasts to momentarily believing the trio, before disappointment.
  • Rob Terboski: “We wanted the audience to be along that ride with her… it should feel crushing, but not so crushing that you’re gonna stop watching.” (18:42–19:17)
• Da’Vine Joy Randolph frames Williams as grounded, devoted, and “magnetic,” never a bumbling foil.
  • Da’Vine Joy Randolph: “She is a woman who is… salt of the earth, born and raised in New York, and she lives to help people.” (20:41)
  • She’s realistic, practical, “can’t easily be excited or fooled"—the anti-Oliver. (23:50)

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7. On-Set Highlights & The Relentless Joy of Filming (24:43–29:20)

• Da’Vine joyfully explains how her casting, including her hair style, serendipitously became part of Williams’s character (25:09–27:30).
• Notes the thrill and challenge of filming technical dialogue, balancing fast-talking NYPD lingo and comedy.
• New York’s energy and community made filming special, neighbors totally engrossed and on board. (27:31)

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8. Character Motivations, Relationships & the Joy of Casting (27:50–30:56)

• Detective Williams’s partner “softens” her and motivates her to take a risk with the amateur sleuths.
• Steve Martin and Martin Short are described as “complimentary and kind"; Selena Gomez “calm, cool, collected… not wavered” despite being surrounded by comedy legends.
  • The “generational gap” in casting (Steve Martin’s idea!) cleverly expands the show’s demographic.

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9. Favorite Scenes, Set Antics & Sex Talk (31:02–38:21)

• Writers’ favorite moment: Marty Short’s “confused dog/fan speech,” causing Steve Martin and Selena Gomez to crack up on set repeatedly (31:32–32:26).
  • Quote:
    • Kevin Lon: “Do I wish our fans were a little more hip? Yes. Do I wish they were a tad more on top of their hygiene? Absolutely. Do they have a confused look in their eyes, like a dog that’s heard a strange sound? Yeah. But strap that dog to a sled and, baby, you’ll be flying across the tundra.” (31:32–31:53)
• Charles is uncharacteristically happy, repeatedly (and awkwardly) proclaiming he had sex—a writer’s intentional running gag.
  • Matteo Borghese: “I have this thing where I need to know if characters are having sex, and if they just had sex, I want them to say it.” (37:37)

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10. Clues, Apartment Geography & Fan Theories (35:03–39:10, 41:56–45:45)

• Hyper-detailed focus on which floor and apartment each character lives in—fan theorizing matches this obsessive energy.
  • Matteo Borghese: “The geography of people and places in the building has always been something we paid an annoyingly close attention to.” (35:24)
• Listener theories include:
  • Jan’s proximity to the Demases in 6A/6B is significant. (43:02)
  • Bunny (the HOA president) as a suspect tied to Theo, detailed by listener Julie. (44:01)
  • Sting as potential “rock star” suspect; misdirections abound.
• Previous clues about “an anagram in dialogue spelling out the actor’s hometown” debunked as a “bullshit” red herring by the writers:
  • Rob Terboski: "Is it time to tell people that Markley’s clue is just bullshit?... people are headed, like, into QAnon land with this.” (38:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Elizabeth Keener (on the Arconiacs):
  “They were super excited. I mean, super fans. Super excited. Maybe too excited… they can’t control themselves.” (03:20–03:28)

• Da’Vine Joy Randolph (on viewers embracing the amateur sleuths):
  “It’s extremely annoying slash illegal. We never talk about that, but…” (21:05)

• Matteo Borghese (on Sherlock Holmes and poison):
  “I would be more suspicious of Sherlock Holmes’ rampant misogyny, honestly.” (34:22)

• Rob Terboski (on the 'mess' of breaking into the business):
  "If you’re an aspiring writer, just make a mess of yourself in a meeting, cry, beg, barter... that’s your only hope, in my experience." (12:04)

• Michelle Grego, bassoonist (on her instrument):
  “You can’t take life too seriously and play the bassoon because… we’re known as the clown of the orchestra.” (33:29)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:37–04:42: Recap of episode 8, main developments, and the Arconiacs
• 05:05–08:32: Writers’ backgrounds and the challenge of merging comedy, mystery, and depth
• 08:32–10:41: True crime’s influence on the writers and cast
• 10:52–14:30: Landing the writing gig, first scenes, and writing group scenes
• 15:35–16:53: On fans, superfans, and writing the Arconiacs
• 18:28–23:50: Detective Williams’s perspective and Da’Vine Joy Randolph’s approach
• 24:43–27:50: On-set stories, Detective Williams’s partner, and impact on character
• 27:50–30:56: Reflections on the cast, the power of a generational gap, and joy of the ensemble
• 31:32–32:26: Marty’s “confused dog/fan” scene—cast laughter and rehearsals
• 35:03–36:59: Fan theorizing, Arconia geography, clues and red herrings
• 41:56–45:45: Listener-submitted theories and host speculation

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The Whodunit Summit: Theories & Fan Feedback (39:53–45:45)

• Hosts lock in their suspects:
  • Elizabeth picks Will (Oliver's son); Kevin picks Howard the Cat Guy, with lingering suspicions of Jan.
  • Listener “Lucas” theorizes about Jan’s apartment proximity; “Jennifer” reconsiders Theo vs. Teddy; “Julie” makes an elaborate case for Bunny; “Jacob’s wife” suspects Sting.
• This discussion underscores the communal, interactive fun of Only Murders, both onscreen and off.

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Tone and Style

The hosts and guests maintain a light-hearted, playful, and nerdily enthusiastic banter throughout, embracing the increasingly obsessive dedication both the characters and listeners have for the show. There is continual, self-referential humor, with everyone relishing both theorizing and poking fun at their own over-analysis.

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Final Thoughts

“Fan Fiction” is about the infectious spread of true crime obsession—from the Arconiacs to the hosts themselves. The episode is packed with behind-the-scenes gems, witty banter, reflections on character motivation, fan culture, set shenanigans, and playful deconstruction of clues. The Only Murders Podcast, like the show, thrives on its meta-commentary—celebrating fans and creators alike, while laughing with (never at) the deeply invested audience.

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Tune in for the next episode breakdown, more clues (real or not!), and your latest fan theories.

Transcript

[Rob Terboski]

Straw Hut Media.

[Kevin Lon]

So we're gonna ask some questions, obviously. Feel free not to answer.

[Matteo Borghese]

Why?

[Rob Terboski]

When does. Is this gonna. What episodes will be out when this.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Episode eight. This is after episode eight airs.

[Rob Terboski]

Okay.

[Kevin Lon]

And that's as far as we've seen.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We don't know what happened after. Yeah, we don't know.

[Rob Terboski]

Well, we completely forgot anyway, so.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Thanks.

[Rob Terboski]

You couldn't torture it out of us.

[Matteo Borghese]

Cause it went right through our head.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

So wait, so I'm not hip. How many? Because y' all not about to get me to tell secrets. How many episodes has the whole thing completely aired at this point?

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah, we have only seen up to episode eight. Welcome to episode 8 of Only Murders in the Pod. We're looking behind the scenes and mining for clues as we meet the cast and creators of the Hulu original series, Only Murders in the Building. Hi, I'm your host, Kevin lan, and with my co host and friend Elizabeth Keener, we're trying to solve a mystery and get to the truth of what happened to Tim Kono. As of now, we've seen the first eight episodes. So listeners, beware if you haven't watched, hit the pause button, get caught up and come right back so we don't spoil anything for you. So what do we know?

[Elizabeth Keener]

So in this episode, we know Teddy threatened our heroes and told them they had to end the podcast and not expose his grave robbing enterprise.

[Matteo Borghese]

Right?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[Kevin Lon]

And he gave them a deadline. They had to do it by 7am

[Elizabeth Keener]

and that was a dead line. A true deadline.

[Kevin Lon]

Exactly.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[Kevin Lon]

So they were up all night figuring this out.

[Elizabeth Keener]

They were.

[Kevin Lon]

We also know that their podcast has devoted fans and call themselves the Arconiacs.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, the Arconic. What a great name.

[Kevin Lon]

It is a good name.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I love that. And then each one had a name for each person. We don't have to look at. You look at. But they all had different names for the people.

[Kevin Lon]

That's right.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right.

[Kevin Lon]

If you had fans.

[Elizabeth Keener]

If I had fans.

[Kevin Lon]

I mean, they call themselves Keenerholics. Keener Files.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We know that Jan and Charles went through Tim's phone and discovered Tim was trying to take down Theo Demus.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

And this would all tie into the grave robbing and the jewelry.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Wow, they're. They're bad.

[Kevin Lon]

So he's taking a roundabout way of taking down the demises for revenge.

[Elizabeth Keener]

He was doing. He was getting everything. He was trying to get everything on them so that they could go down after so long. Right. Decade.

[Kevin Lon]

Right. And we know that they met with Detective Williams and got her blessing to try and take the demises down.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. Yes. They. She was wanting them to help her unofficially. Unofficially. We had to say unofficially.

[Kevin Lon]

And she was a skeptical person at first. With podcasts.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, she called them numb nuts at first, so, you know, she did change her idea about them. Okay, so we. We know they put together a team to put together this last podcast episode, which includes Jan, Oscar, and the three Arconiacs, because one of them was off.

[Kevin Lon]

He had piano lessons.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Grant had piano lessons.

[Kevin Lon]

They were found. They were very helpful for our trio.

[Elizabeth Keener]

They were. They did a little acting. They acted out a scene.

[Kevin Lon]

They did scenes because they were kind of our trio a month ago.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. How they felt, how excited they were. They were super excited. I mean, super fans. Super excited. Every single.

[Kevin Lon]

Maybe too excited.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. That's why they're uber fans. They can't control themselves.

[Kevin Lon]

And they had a lot of time on their hands.

[Elizabeth Keener]

They had a lot of time on their hands. And then Oliver really had to have them act something out because he loves doing that. He's a visual director.

[Kevin Lon]

He's a visual thinker. He needs to see it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

He's the man.

[Kevin Lon]

That's the theater in him.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

We also know that Jan is driving Oliver and Mabel crazy with her contributions, and she does not think Theo and Teddy are. And instead is trying to get them to look at Howard Morris. The cat guy.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right, Howard the cat guy.

[Kevin Lon]

He's back on the scene.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Back on the scene. We know the toxicology report came in to show that Tim was poisoned before he was shot. And we know Theo and Teddy were both outside at the time that he was shot. Right, because there was a camera, and it was showing that they were outside,

[Kevin Lon]

so they were not there when the fire alarm was pulled, so they could not have killed.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So you know what that shows? You're supposed to say to me, Keener, your five guesses are absolutely wrong. Fool. Yes, I'm a fool.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, I did not forget.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I'm a fool for so many.

[Kevin Lon]

Forget that at all.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Fool for love, for crime Fool. Just a fool.

[Kevin Lon]

We know that Jan was attacked and is possibly dead. Could she really be dead?

[Elizabeth Keener]

I don't know. And then you said, is that real blood? I mean, you questioned her.

[Kevin Lon]

Well, maybe she was just setting something up and trying to make a point. But she had a note on her door, a frightening note.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She may have just shanked. She didn't shank herself, but maybe she was feeling.

[Kevin Lon]

Because the group kind of shunned her. So maybe this is the way of kind of making them feel bad.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But who put the note on the door.

[Kevin Lon]

That's true.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I mean, that somebody is watching her. It says, I'm watching you.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah. Like the last two episodes. Episode eight was also written by two writers, but unlike six and seven, where the writers were paired together by John Hoffman, Rob Chabowski and Matteo Borghese have been writing together for years and were brought onto the show as a team. They met back in grad school at usc.

[Matteo Borghese]

We found each other.

[Rob Terboski]

We were experts in screenwriting. Masters state certified, Masters licensed. Yeah. I don't know if we can answer any questions about the show, but we did take an entire class on the structure of Tootsie, so if you have any Tootsie questions, that's really what we're.

[Kevin Lon]

We do have some, actually.

[Elizabeth Keener]

How weird is that? That we have, like.

[Kevin Lon]

Like every good team? Rob and Mateo balance each other out, as they put it. One's a little sweet, one's a little savory. Think of Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello, maybe even Chris Farley and David Spade.

[Matteo Borghese]

Well, I'm a little huskier.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah.

[Matteo Borghese]

And he's on the slight side. So that kind of gives us the classic comedy duo.

[Rob Terboski]

I mean, in person, you know, it's. The situation is you want someone who likes the sweet snacks from the writer's room and someone who likes the savory snacks. As if you're like two savory guys.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And who's.

[Kevin Lon]

That's a good balance.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Let me guess. Who's sweet, who's savory?

[Rob Terboski]

You know, I'll say that, you know, you need. It's sort of like a one plus one equals three kind of thing, or one and a half, depending on what the case may be. But I think we both care a lot about the jokes, but also the kind of structure of the story, which I like to think makes us. Not a detriment, but you'll have to ask John.

[Kevin Lon]

And the structure is. This is a very different show as far as structure, because you're kind of working backwards from the last episode, right?

[Matteo Borghese]

Yeah. Our pea brains are not well formed for this kind of show. Usually in a sitcom, you're like, okay, this is the one where the boss comes over for dinner or something, you know.

[Kevin Lon]

Only Murders was a bit of a departure from their usual style. They've written together on a lot of great shows. Silicon Valley, Lady Dynamite, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, just to name a few.

[Matteo Borghese]

Well, I think tonally, it's a lot different than those previous shows we've worked on. There's a lot. There's kind of a shift in tone. And we're expected to take the characters possibly slightly more, I don't know, serious tonally. And, you know, like, I think we're supposed to buy in on the mystery. It's not just a straight comedy. It also has surreal elements, and I think that's kind of a shift for us that might be new for us.

[Rob Terboski]

Yeah, there's this melancholy sort of thing that is going on in the show that I think people are responding to a little bit, which is like, it's not just. It's not just a light comedy, you know, this zany kind of murder mystery, which, you know, it well could have been. It has this kind of depth and texture to it that I think was like a really fun challenge for us to, you know, plumb the depths of our sad little souls and see. See what was. What was in there under the cobwebs.

[Kevin Lon]

Mateo has been a fan of the true crime world even before podcasting exploded into the phenomenon we know it as today.

[Matteo Borghese]

Well, actually, I used to make the, like, I used to make things that were the precursor to true crime podcasts, which is. I worked at Core TV in my 20s. It was my first job was doing the research for the crimes. Like, we'd have to pick a new murder to make a documentary out of. So I would just sit in the basement of this office building in midtown Manhattan and come in every day and I'd have Google alerts for like, bizarre murder, grisly murder or something. Florida, that was my whole day was just like combing through the details of increasingly dark, darker and darker homicides.

[Kevin Lon]

Rob, on the other hand, did not start out with much knowledge of true

[Rob Terboski]

crime pods, with the exception of my favorite murder, which some friends of ours do. So I knew that one, but I didn't know so much in the investigative crime podcasts I was like, a huge fan of. And this came up in our meeting with John to work on the show of, like, Errol Morris. We both are. And we had, like, explored writing like a crime mystery comedy thing ourselves. And so we like that stuff for sure.

[Kevin Lon]

Errol Morris is the Academy Award winning documentary filmmaker behind the films the Fog of War, the Thin Blue Line, and. And most recently the Hulu docu series Wilderness of Error. There is one person who really doesn't like true crime, and that's Davine Joy Randolph, who plays Detective Williams.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

No, they freak me out. They freak me out. I don't watch scary movies and I definitely don't when it's, like, based on true events. No, turn it off.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You walk away.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

I can't like, even, like those, like, 48 hours.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, I love those. Yeah, it scares.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

Like, true things scare me more than, like, Freddy Krueger or something.

[Rob Terboski]

So.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

Yeah, no, I tap out.

[Kevin Lon]

We'll hear more from Dae Vine a little bit later in this episode. But for now, back to the writers. We've asked all the writers we've talked to a little about their journey into this writer's room.

[Rob Terboski]

I mean, sometimes if you just, like, wish for something, it seems like miraculously. I mean, it's a miracle. I mean, you know, it truly is amazing to get to work on the show, I think. You know, years and years ago, we had met Jess Rosenthal, who's the. One of the executive producers, works with Dan Fogelman. And then I'm sure he did not remember that. That would be insane. We did absolutely nothing memorable in that meeting, did we, Mateo? If I'm wrong here, not one memorable or interesting thing from us in that meeting.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

No, no.

[Matteo Borghese]

I remember every meeting we take, too.

[Rob Terboski]

We keep a little spreadsheet of.

[Matteo Borghese]

Yep. Yeah, screw.

[Rob Terboski]

You know, I think we just, like, really, when we heard about this show, just, like, really made the case, like, please meet with us. And I had, like, you know, we both love Steve and Marty so much. And I think during our zoom with John, like, you know, I had like, a Steve Martin poster nearby that I was like, oh, look, I just happen to have this here sitting with it. I was like, yeah, but, yeah, that's, you know, just got very, very lucky. And through pleading and begging.

[Matteo Borghese]

Oh, we begged so hard, we were crying. This was a pity hire. So if you're an aspiring writer, just like, if you're out there and you're wondering, just make a. Just mess of yourself in a meeting, Cry, beg, barter, anything you can do just to make the showrunner feel bad for you. Cause that's your only hope, in my experience.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah, it sounds like a TED Talk.

[Rob Terboski]

Ye. I pretended to have, like, a small wet cough, like an orphan's cough, you know, kind of thing. And like a 19th century Mo Porridge,

[Matteo Borghese]

London street urchin, but with, like, a contemporary twist.

[Rob Terboski]

Yeah. I want him know that we could also write the young Mabel character.

[Kevin Lon]

The first scene, Rob and Mateo, remember, writing for Only Murders, was before Nathan Lane had even been cast as Teddy.

[Rob Terboski]

The first scene that we wrote for it, I think, think, was the scene with Nathan Wayne in the car, you know, when they're driving back.

[Matteo Borghese]

We were doing sides. Yeah, we wrote sides.

[Rob Terboski]

We were writing something, I think for that. They want you Know when they were trying to get Nathan Wayne. And so we knew this scene. This kind of scene would be there, and so we wrote a few versions of it, and some of them were extremely long. I mean, there was, like, he went on and on about his history with the theater and different shows that he liked that were important to him, and then, you know, that kind of. So that then made its way into earlier episodes, like them listening to Carousel. Carousel, yeah, Seven. So I remember writing that scene, for sure.

[Matteo Borghese]

And I think it's, like, always fun to have that kind of scene where you got a villain who is completely in control of the situation and he's just gonna monologue a little bit. Like, it's. It's both fun, and also, you can. I feel like it's a. It's like a fun way to get into their history, too, and to really see an actor kind of stretch out. I think I really enjoyed writing.

[Rob Terboski]

And some of those scenes in the apartment where there's, like, seven characters, you know, all together, trying to, like, you know, keep people making sure you remember these people are there and giving everybody, like, something funny or interesting to do. Like that. That was really challenging as well.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I think you said the word sides that you were writing sides. Can you, for our listeners, explain what you meant by, say, you're writing sides?

[Matteo Borghese]

Well, sometimes when you're auditioning actors for a role, you might not have written the episode that they're auditioning for just because it's part of the production process is they need to hire someone before the episode is absolutely finish,

[Rob Terboski]

but you

[Matteo Borghese]

might know kind of what a scene is about. And so at the time, we just. We needed to write some Teddy Demas dialogue for actors to use to audition. So those are the sides.

[Rob Terboski]

And we just were like, nathan Lane did not audition.

[Matteo Borghese]

No, no, that's true.

[Kevin Lon]

Thank you very much. We'll call you. But yes.

[Rob Terboski]

Yeah, yeah. What you're saying is right.

[Matteo Borghese]

Yes.

[Rob Terboski]

And so when he expressed interest, I, you know.

[Matteo Borghese]

But, yeah, the audition process may have come to a bit of an end.

[Kevin Lon]

Like Charles Hayden Savage, Nathan Lane is offer only. This episode is called Fan Fiction. We learned that the podcast Charles Oliver and Mabel are making has attracted some super fans with their own homemade merch and theories about what happened to Tim Kono.

[Rob Terboski]

I myself am a super fan of Bruce Springsteen, and there is a Bruce. Probably several Bruce Springsteen message boards. And I, you know, I don't post on them, but I do read them fairly regularly. So I, you know, I get a sense of, you know, just how intense you Know, your life can be, if you want to just focus on one thing at the detriment of absolutely everything else.

[Matteo Borghese]

Like, I think, like, it was fun to write these guys because in a way we're writing about the trio too. Like, that was something that we talked a lot about, which is like the. They are those superfans. They are, like, kind of where our trio started out in the beginning. They're just like obsessed with this podcast. And I think it was just fun to go back and revisit that, like, over again.

[Kevin Lon]

And when we first meet the Arconiacs, there are four of them. When Oliver invites them up into the building, the young one, Grant, he's gone because he has a piano lesson. We were curious if there was an issue with the actor or if this was an intentional misconnection between Jan the Bassoon and Grant taking his piano lessons. Or are we just looking too deep into this and we're on the wrong track?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Like we tend to do.

[Kevin Lon]

Like we tend to.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But, you know, I don't think you

[Matteo Borghese]

can ever look too deep into this show.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, I think we have at some point.

[Rob Terboski]

Yeah.

[Matteo Borghese]

Well, I guess there's a little current there of. Of kind of music underneath all this.

[Rob Terboski]

I. Well, Turbo, I think you guys have solved it and Grant is the killer. Please don't use this in the podcast. Oh, we won't. I shouldn't have said that.

[Kevin Lon]

This is a safe zone.

[Elizabeth Keener]

The safe zone. This is just. Yeah, this is like, this is for us only.

[Rob Terboski]

Now you guys seem to be, you know, have a sense of what the fans of the show feel. Do you think they would find it unsatisfying if the killer was in fact an 8 year old boy who you've never met before and had never been mentioned by anyone? Because we still have time to change.

[Matteo Borghese]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Gotta do what you gotta do.

[Kevin Lon]

I don't think anyone would have guessed it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Detective Williams went through a whole process in this episode of firm non believer to feeling like a podcast could solve a crime, to ultimately being let down. Can you tell us about her character and how that developed, how it went?

[Rob Terboski]

Yeah, I think we wanted the audience, you know, to be along that ride with her, you know, So I think what we were hoping for, what we want you to feel, is like they've solved it, you know, and it feels satisfying the way they did it and the way they put out the podcast. And that's what brings Detective Williams around, you know, and then to have it turn out not to be true in such a dramatic way, I think hopefully should Feel crushing, but not so crushing that you're going to stop watching, you know?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right.

[Matteo Borghese]

I think old. Old Savory got it right.

[Kevin Lon]

I mean, old Savory.

[Rob Terboski]

Yeah.

[Matteo Borghese]

I don't know. Detective Williams is like. She's like. She's an interesting character, because I don't think anybody wanted to suggest she was, like, not good at what she did. Like, we like her as a character, and, like, her performance is very magnetic and fun, and it felt like we were taking something away from her if we were to make her, like, you know, someone that they were easily outfoxing. And it kind of takes away from some of the fun of the premise of having these two amateurs, like, be bumble into this crime.

[Kevin Lon]

Wait a second. Did you catch that? Mateo just said two amateurs, not three. Maybe we're reading too far into this, but that feels significant. What does Mabel know? It could have been a simple misspeak, but listen closely,

[Matteo Borghese]

and it kind of takes away from some of the fun of the premise of having these two amateurs, like, be bumble into this crime and kind of learn how to solve it the hard way if she's not great at her job. So I think this episode was, like, a balance of her both being kind of helpful and in control with them kind of superseding her work.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

She is a woman who is, you know, salt of the earth, born and raised in New York, and she lives to help people.

[Kevin Lon]

Here's da' vine again.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

I imagine, like, Law and Order was her thing, you know what I mean, growing up. And, like, she really connected with that. A true New Yorker through and through.

[Matteo Borghese]

And

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

I think with young professionals, especially when you want to be successful and really strive to focus and give to your craft, oftentimes there are sacrifices that you need to make in your personal life. And so I think where people have seen up to now, you're seeing her negotiate that as well as she's a person who is used to and very comfortable with being alone, you know, and just keeping her head down and doing her thing. And then she's fortunate to meet someone and realize it's like, okay, I can give this a try, too. And I'm not too bad at it. I think she constantly keeps her life really simple and yet is very devoted to her job. So these wannabes, if you will, it's extremely annoying slash illegal. And we never talk about that, but,

[Elizabeth Keener]

like, nobody ever talks about illegal.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

I remember the pilot. I was like, really? So they just gonna run from a crime scene? And I'm like, hey, you guys know this person? Or just so. But, you know, I think that's part of the comedy of it as well. But I think they also do a great job of being, like, right on the nose with that kind of also New Yorker resident of a building, that sense of entitlement and curiosity, where it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is my actual job. And y' all are just doing it. Cause you're bored, I guess. But I think you'll start to see more and more of how they both realize they can be of help to one another.

[Rob Terboski]

I think we wanted the audience, you know, to be along that ride with her, you know, So I think what we were hoping for, what we want you to feel, is like they've solved it, you know, and it feels satisfying the way they did it and the way they put out the podcast. And that's what brings Detective Williams around, you know, and then to have it turn out not to be true in such a dramatic way, I think hopefully should feel crushing, but not so crushing that you're gonna stop watching.

[Kevin Lon]

Detective Williams brings a whole new perspective to the show.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

What she brings is a bit more of. I was going to say that New York flair, but there's tons of people that bring New York flair, but in their own unique way. But I would say she's more of that edge and grit of New York, you know what I mean? The realist, the practical one that can't easily be excited or fooled. It's kind of like, yeah, okay, been there, done that, whatever.

[Kevin Lon]

The opposite of Martin Short's character.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what is so fun to do at the same time to be around that different energy?

[Kevin Lon]

We're gonna take a quick break. When we get back, more about Detective Williams, highlights from filming and clues. Lots of clues. Welcome back. Today we're talking to the writers of Episode eight, Rob Terboski and Matteo Borghese, along with DA Vine Joy Randolph, who plays Detective Williams. There were a few connections between Divine and the producers of Only Murders. First of all, she was on a few episodes of this Is Us, which is made by the same production team. But more importantly, she played Lady Reid in the 2019 film Dolemite is My Name.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

Steve Martin had seen Dolemite Is My Name, and I think because of their relationship and the mutual respect that he and Eddie Murphy have for one another, that I think was also what helped seal the deal that he felt, you know, like, okay, yeah, you could do this.

[Kevin Lon]

Unlike Charles Oliver and Mabel, Detective Williams is a professional crime solver and employed by the actual nypd.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

I give mad props to people who do procedural shows, so. Like ER or Law and Order. It is hard because, I mean, from what you guys even see, which at first I was like, what? They edited and cut it down. Like, I have like these monologues. So when it. When we filmed it originally, you get it a bit when you first meet my character, but they spliced in between. But it's all this technical jargon and you can't ad lib at all. You have to do it exactly perfect. We kind of established for my character, she's kind of deadpanish and she speaks rather quickly. So it is difficult. It is really difficult, but also very fun. And it was a real challenge. It was funny because when we had done a director's meeting, when they were offering me the job or pitching me the project, I had had my hair, you know, just like a protective style because it was Covid and I didn't feel like doing my hair, so I just put my hair in faux locs. And in the meeting, they were like, oh, that, we love that. And I was like, oh, well, you know, these aren't like real. Like, this is just. They were like, no, no, no, we want the locks. That's great. And I was like, okay, okay, cool, done. And then funny enough, when we shot the pilot, I had them in. But then by the time we got to the next episode, you see episode six, I was filming another project. So I went to. I was filming another project also in New York. So I had. I was wearing wigs for the other show, so I had to go to Brooklyn to a beauty supply store to buy a regular wig. And then I braided that wig and made a faux loc wig out of it after I finished work that day. And I stayed up and pulled an all nighter. So imagine having all that text and then on top of it, you're like, yup. They're like, hey, Divine, welcome back. How you feeling? And I'm like, I hat looks wet.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I'm exhausted.

[Kevin Lon]

Your hair looks great, though.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. So good to be back.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

Thank you so much.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You look great.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

No, it was tons and tons and tons of fun. And it's just. It's so cool too, to just to film in New York City. There's just a different energy about it. And the community, literally the neighbors are just so on board with all of it. It's really cool. They're very engrossed.

[Kevin Lon]

Da' vine thinks Detective Williams was finally motivated to work with our DIY crime solvers because of her life partner.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

She makes me better at not only who I am, but at my job. And so there's something about her that offers a softening to me where I'm able to see beyond, you know, if she wasn't in my life like that, there's no way we wouldn't. I wouldn't even be in the show at all. Or it would literally end after the pilot, and I'd be like, crime fucking numbnuts.

[Kevin Lon]

And be out smoking cigarettes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, the numb nuts.

[Matteo Borghese]

And I'm out the building.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

So I think because two, it was very subtle, but I don't know if people picked up on it when they're. When I'm at the computer, they did little things like, I have a picture of my wife on my laptop or on my desktop, and then there's that guy that's over to the right of me working. And it's. You know, it's. I think, for her in that moment, though, it's not drawn out and said that she's like, my God, I don't want to be that man. Do you know what I mean? Like, late, after hours, clearly not going home, maybe. You know, no home. Hiding from his wife and just so. Yeah. Devoted to it. So I think for her, she's like, I do love this, but maybe there's a different way in which I can go about it.

[Kevin Lon]

Like, everyone we've talked to so far, being a part of this show was a magical experience beyond all the COVID stuff.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

It was a really, really fun project. I'm trying to remember if it was my first project back. You know what I mean? Working since COVID had started. I don't remember, but it was still a wonderful. Everyone was just so kind. I think we were all just so excited to be back in some sense of the word, you know, and normalcy. And the cast was lovely. Steve Martin and Martin short in particular, were just so complimentary and kind, where I was like, all right, guys, it's too much like, cut it out now. I feel like you're putting a little too much on.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's not really. Yeah.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

But they were very, very nice. And Selena was so cool and just calm and cool and collected. And I just applaud her because she is literally being anchored by these two legends and does her thing and is not wavered and just takes command in her own right. I think it's genius, too, the idea of this, like, generational gap as well and closing this. I think someone said that was Steve Martin's idea, but that's Genius. Because he took. He closed the gap. And you have a huge widespread demographic to watch this. Like, I feel like he easily could have gone with someone else from, like, the SNL kind of fam and his generation, sort of. But I think it was a brilliant,

[Kevin Lon]

brilliant, brilliant move, even for the writers who couldn't be on set. But watching the show as it came together in production was exciting.

[Rob Terboski]

There's a scene in the episode where when they. After Oliver has brought the superfans up into the apartment, and he's getting some resistance from Charles and Mabel about, do we really want, you know, to ask these people for help? And he kind of takes they sidebar. Oliver, Charles and Mabel have, like, a private discussion. And he makes the case for the superfans. That speech that Marty does about, you know, strapped. Do they have that look in their eyes like a confused dog Look.

[Kevin Lon]

Do I wish our fans were a little more hip? Yes. Do I wish they were a tad more on top of their hygiene?

[Matteo Borghese]

Absolutely.

[Kevin Lon]

Do they have a confused look in their eyes like a dog that's heard a strange sound? Yeah. But strap that dog to a sled and, baby, you'll be flying across the tundra.

[Rob Terboski]

One of the great, like, truly one of the highlights of this whole experience was we would watch the dailies, you know, after they'd finished shooting, and we watched like five or six takes of them doing that scene. And just. Marty could not. He could not get through it without making Steve and Selina laugh. And just like, if you want just to, like, a pick me up to feel good, like, seeing them just crack up over and over again and be unable to get through a take was, like, incredible.

[Kevin Lon]

In episode eight, our crime solving group got a lot bigger. Not only is Detective Williams in on the investigation, it also now includes the Arconiacs, Oscar and Jan. Though by the end of the episode, we're not sure if she's alive or dead. And honestly, we've become very suspicious of Jan. So to get some more inside information, we talked to Michelle Grego, who is second chair bassoon at the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra. Orchestra.

[Michelle Grego]

My entire life, it's all about, you play the what and then you have to go into this long. I sit next to the clarinet. It's a double. No, it's not the oboe.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh.

[Michelle Grego]

It's the grandfather and Peter and the wolf. You know, that kind of thing. And it bothers some people. To me, it's more like, you know what?

[Matteo Borghese]

It's fine.

[Michelle Grego]

You don't know. I'm gonna tell you all about it. So there you go. That's why I'm so excited it's on tv.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yay.

[Kevin Lon]

You're an ambassador for the basilica.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You're the impasse. Yes, you are.

[Kevin Lon]

We also asked her if she's noticed whether bassoon players have any qualities in common with each other.

[Michelle Grego]

I would say a sense of humorous, sense of humor. Absolutely. You can't take life too seriously and play the bassoon because it's. We're known as the clown of the orchestra.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, really?

[Matteo Borghese]

Yeah.

[Michelle Grego]

You can, you know, have some humor to it. Composers write funny things for the bassoon all the time. But we're also very. Have very mournful lines and, you know, contemplative things and sorrowful. Whatever. We can change the mood on a dime.

[Kevin Lon]

Both funny and mournful. Sounds almost like a clue. It was a very illuminating conversation, one that you'll get more of in the next episode. Another reason we're suspicious of Jan is the revelation in this episode that Tim Kona was poisoned before he was shot. We know the famous Sherlock Holmes quote, poison is a woman's weapon. And that made us think that maybe we should be more suspicious of the women in the arconia.

[Matteo Borghese]

I would be more suspicious of Sherlock Holmes rampant misogyny. Honestly.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Fuck, yeah. I mean, if I were to take a gun and shoot someone and blow someone's head up, why can't I do it? I. To poison them?

[Matteo Borghese]

I mean, again, women can knife people too, guys. You know, not just for the boys.

[Rob Terboski]

We want this show to do anything. It's to make the case for women as stabbers.

[Kevin Lon]

Thank you.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Thank you. Well, this. We're gonna call it this. Yes. Thank you so much. I think there's a march next week for that. So downtown.

[Rob Terboski]

Well, I don't want to go because

[Matteo Borghese]

I don't want to be typed.

[Kevin Lon]

I would not suggest it. So this week, we started to notice where everyone lives in the building, like, what floor they're on. We feel like it's important. Are we on the right track with that?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Are we diving deep again?

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

Yeah.

[Matteo Borghese]

I think, like, the geography of people and places in the building has always been something we paid an annoyingly close attention to. Like, we were always kind of being like. It became like a real problem in the room because, like, there's just, like, little scenes and stuff where you'd be like, well, then maybe this character walks by because they're going to the elevator. And then our very dutiful and detail oriented writer's assistants would point out, well, no, that wouldn't happen because so and so lives on the eighth floor. And we go, well, who cares? Maybe, maybe there was like a park. Maybe they, like, they have a six story apartment and they have front doors on every floor.

[Kevin Lon]

Rob and Mateo keep shooting down our theories, but we think they're telling us a lot more than they mean to. Since we started to get more suspicious about Jane, we went back through old episodes to see if we could figure out which floor she lived on. And we're pretty sure she lives in apartment 6A, right next door to 6B, where the demises live. We don't necessarily think she killed Tim Kono, but does she know more than she's letting on?

[Elizabeth Keener]

When Steve Martin's character Charles says to the super fans, find some other interest. There's a big wide world out there. It looks like he's also talking to us, the audience. Is that, was that intended?

[Rob Terboski]

Do you mean, like, is he telling the viewers of the show, like, go watch Ted Lasso?

[Matteo Borghese]

I think it's.

[Rob Terboski]

Charles is reflecting on, you know, how much there is to life that he's discovered. This experience has really opened him up, you know, and not only is he solving a murder, but he's, you know, discovering love. He's exploring his past with Lucy and things like that. So maybe he's speaking from that sort of.

[Kevin Lon]

And this episode's the happiest we've ever seen him.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, how many times did he say he had sex? We had sex.

[Matteo Borghese]

I don't know if I said that.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Please stop talking about that, guys. Like, what did he say? Three, four times? You know, he was very happy about that. So we're happy.

[Matteo Borghese]

That was my pitch, actually. I, I, I kind of have this thing where I need to know if characters are having sex and if they just had sex, I want them to say it. So I didn't just pitch it for Steve. I pitched it for all the other characters as well. And I think John had the wisdom and the discretion to know it might be more relevant with Steve. But going forward in season two.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, season two. A lot more sex on different floors. The floors are gonna matter on the floor.

[Rob Terboski]

People will be declaring it as well.

[Matteo Borghese]

Everybody's gonna be checking it. I don't want each character checking.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I'm so excited to.

[Kevin Lon]

When we asked Rob and Mateo for a clue, they politely declined to give us one. But they did at least help us out with the head scratcher that writer Stephen Markley gave us last week.

[Matteo Borghese]

Okay, make sure, make sure you're, you might have to write this down. So there's a line of dialogue in the first seven episodes, which is an anagram for the childhood hometown of the

[Kevin Lon]

actor who plays the killer.

[Matteo Borghese]

So just figure that out and you'll be good.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Sort of a.

[Rob Terboski]

Is it time to tell people that Mark Lee's clue is just bullshit? Is that helpful? I don't want people to go. People are headed, like, into QAnon land with this.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I don't understand.

[Kevin Lon]

Davine, on the other hand, said something very interesting.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We're trying to figure out who the. Who the murderer is before the end of the show. That's what you're trying to do.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

I don't even know.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, that's a good clue.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

I'm scared because I don't know.

[Elizabeth Keener]

No, you didn't say anything. You didn't say anything.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

Okay, no one knows. We've.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We've. Okay.

[Da'Vine Joy Randolph]

That.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, no one knows.

[Kevin Lon]

Coming up next, Keener and I make our guesses and make sure you stick around until after the credits to hear some listener submitted theories.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay. This is your favorite time.

[Kevin Lon]

It is my favorite time. And yet again, I can't remember what you call it, but it's very catchy.

[Elizabeth Keener]

The Whodunit Summit.

[Kevin Lon]

And this is the part where we seal in our guesses for who we think kill Tim Kono as of the last episode, which is episode eight. And seal it in an envelope.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

So I am opening your envelope right now.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And let's hope it's not Theo. I just said it probably is.

[Kevin Lon]

You said it is Will Oliver's son.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. I'm going for the sons. The vet. I'm going for the sons. It's just the way it's going to be for me. I don't know.

[Kevin Lon]

Because you're Theo'd out. I'm Theo'd out now because you were wrong about that.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, I don't like that word.

[Kevin Lon]

Don't like that word.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Make me cry. All right. Okay, now your turn. I hope you didn't copy me. Here we go. Yours is so pretty in a nice envelope. Everything. And mine's just sad.

[Kevin Lon]

Terrible.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Wow, you did a whole drawing and everything. The murderer is Howard the cat guy. And you have a little face with a meow.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, I'm going in with Jan.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, Go. Okay.

[Kevin Lon]

I. Dan was very suspicious of Howard the cat guy.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's a good guess. And you know what? You know when they said it's, you know, they're not going to do it for a cat. It's, like, for jewelry and all that stuff. Are you kidding? That's family. Yes, family.

[Kevin Lon]

Cats and dogs.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right? Cats and dogs. So, you know.

[Kevin Lon]

And Howard's out for revenge.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Revenge. I'll shank you. I'll cut you. I'll do. You know, Although they say, you know, let's poison them. Okay, good guess. Not as good as mine, but thank you, everyone, and another great episode.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Talk to you soon.

[Kevin Lon]

See you next week.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So, listeners, do you have a theory about who killed Tim Kono? Let us know, Email [e-mail] Thanks for

[Kevin Lon]

listening to our 8th episode of Only Murders in the Pot.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Only Murders in the Pot is a production of Straw Hut Media. The show is hosted by Elizabeth Keener and Kevin Lon, produced by Ryan Tillotson, Maggie Bowles and William Sterling. Associate producer is Stephen Markley. Music by Kyle Merritt, and big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Ari Abishe and the entire Hulu team.

[Kevin Lon]

See you next week again from Keener's Closet.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Bye. So, Kevin.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

This is where we get to talk about, you know, some of the listeners. Fan. Ma fans. Let's. Okay, I'm in. I'm in. They send in emails telling us who they think.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes. Their ideas on who the murderer Tim

[Elizabeth Keener]

Kono is, the murder of TK Is.

[Kevin Lon]

And do they match up with our theories?

[Elizabeth Keener]

And you know what? One does match up with our theory.

[Kevin Lon]

Go.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And that is Lucas. Now, Lucas, I think sent one in before. So thanks, Lucas, so much for, for sending us different emails with all your thoughts because you've got some good ones. But yes, he has.

[Kevin Lon]

He also noticed that Jan is in apartment 6A, which is next door to apartment 6B, which is the Demises.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. And he also noticed that Tim Kono, did he get on or off the lift on six. So remember, he, he knows that he saw that with the garbage bag.

[Kevin Lon]

Right.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So he was thinking, did he meet up with Jan or did he meet up with the Demises? I mean, he goes. He's going deep. He is going deep. He's in a hole. Right. He's in a trouble. He's in a whole lot of trouble. And then there's also Jennifer. Jennifer was like me.

[Kevin Lon]

I mean, Jennifer went heavy on Theo

[Elizabeth Keener]

for a while after my own heart. Because we know I did right after my non guest.

[Kevin Lon]

But she's. She's going away from Theo.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She's going away from Theo. And she thinks maybe it's Teddy, but that might be too obvious. Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

Especially since we know they didn't do it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right.

[Kevin Lon]

So Jennifer is off. Is on the wrong track.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, she's, she's, she's not in the Hole. She's like, I don't know.

[Kevin Lon]

She got on the wrong bus.

[Elizabeth Keener]

On the wrong bus. Okay, so now here we have. Oh, now Julie. Julie has a great. I'm actually just gonna read. Yes, because here we go. It's really good. I want to go on the record that I think that the killer is Bunny. Remember the hoa? Yes. The short background interaction between Bunny and Theo in episode two is the key. If he doesn't live in the building, why would he be working with her to set up Tim Kona's memorial service? ASL talking about the dip and the cups or whatever. So very interesting. She caught all that. I think we're going to learn that she is Theo's mother and that she's in on the angel thing and trying to protect him. Oh, this is so good.

[Kevin Lon]

Right?

[Elizabeth Keener]

She could plant the overdue on building dues notices in Tim's apartment to lend credence to suicide theory. She would not be out of place in all parts of the building. Sliding notes under people's doors, et cetera.

[Kevin Lon]

And lots of notes get slid under

[Matteo Borghese]

doors in the show.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. Oh, yes.

[Kevin Lon]

I mean, so, yeah, she can walk around the building and no one would really think twice about.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That was really good. Wait, didn't you say something about a bunny?

[Kevin Lon]

Yes. In episode one, if you recall, when Oliver went to his son's house, there's a stuffed bunny on the kitchen island.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's right. And we wondered what that was.

[Kevin Lon]

I thought it was weird because I'm like, why is there a bunny? I'm like, wait, wasn't there a character named Bunny? It's not a common name.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, yeah, not in your family. So, Kevin, there's just one more we're going to do, and it's Jacob. And so Jake takes a cue from his wife that it's the most famous guest star who was the killer or murderer.

[Kevin Lon]

And it could be a rock star by the name of Sting.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So who knows? He does question it. He says, but I'm not sure Jake.

[Kevin Lon]

And I'm not sure Jake's wife.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure. I'm sure his wife's pretty. Yes. Okay. All right. Well, that's about it. Thanks, everyone, for staying till the end.

[Kevin Lon]

Keep sending them in.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. And now we're gonna go drink something and try again.

[Kevin Lon]

Jennifer.